other men I briefly suggest these following things to you and the Reader 1. That by your owne concession set formes of prayer are not unlawfull because they be set and framed before hand and not conceived suddenly wherein you grant that the publicke prayers in the Assemblies may be premeditated framed and studied before hand as well as Sermons which concession takes off one of the strongest Arguments used against set-formes of prayer 2. I answer it is not against the fruites of Christs ascension into Heaven and of giving gifts unto men for the Ministery that they doe not alwayes in all their prayers exercise their own gifts of invention and composall of prayer for so the using of the Lords prayer should be unlawfull at any time for the Ministers which is no prayer framed out of their owne meditations and studie and their owne gifts 3. I answer there is a great dissimilitude in many respects betweene Sermons and prayers so that it will not hold though Sermons ought to be framed alwaies out of our owne gifts that therefore prayers alwayes should be And this I will demonstrate in a Discourse of the lawfulnesse of using set-formes of prayer composed by others 4. It is not against the fruit of Christs ascension nor the gifts given then for Ministers in some instructions and teachings of the people to make use of some thing sometimes in publike either doctrinall or practicall not framed out of their owne gifts but by others As suppose the reading in the Congregation to the people often some confession of faith or some exhortation about maine things of use to them having still the free use of their giftsto preach besides 5. Suppose you five should joyne together out of your owne meditations and studies exercising your owne gifts to frame publicke prayers of maine petitions needfull for the state of all your Churches whether might they be used by you in your publick Assemblies 6. Whether each of you by your selves framing upon meditation and studie a set-forme of prayer may not use that often in your Assemblies without sinne having also your liberty to adde conceived prayers at the same time But to put all out of question about the second instance I judge that set formes of prayer prescribed taken in both senses that is neither made nor framed out of the gifts of the persons who use them nor left at liberty but by publike consent agreed upon to be used are not unlawfull to be practised but the Scriptures give us examples for such prayers as in 2 Chron. 29. 30. Moreover Hezekiah the King and the Princes commanded the Levites to sing praise unto the Lord with the words of David and of Asaph the Seer and they sang praises with gladnesse and they bowed their heads and worshipped And therefore the use of set formes of prayer framed and composed by others and prescribed having example in Scripture as well as conceived are no additament nor superaddition but the reformed Churches in practising both practise most safely according to Scripture patternes and your Churches using only one sort and not the other leave to follow examples recorded in Scripture and we may more justly cast upon you the taking away from Scripture taking away being a like branded by Scripture as adding But you doe unjustly cast upon the reformed Churches adding to the word the Scriptures holding out examples for both And for the further clearing your mistakes in this great ordinance of publike prayer I shall only adde this all that God hath commanded either in the old Testament or new about publike prayer is that prayers be made in the publike Assemblies and that those prayers be of petitions for their matter and kind lawfull according unto the will of God directed unto God alone in the Name of Christ with humility fervency faith and such like but that God hath required that as oft as Ministers pray they must put up prayers framed by their own meditations and studies out of their own gifts and that the words and phrases must be various and diversified or else their prayers are not lawfull there is never such a sillable to proove it in the Scripture But we have examples of both namely set and conceived and Gods servants used both indifferently and we may use both according as we see occasion and as we find may make most for edification and Gods glory And I desire you in your Reply to this Answer to give any instance to the contrary and I shall thanke you for I seek truth and peace and not victory nor contention And let me mind you whilst you goe about in this instance to cleare your selves of additaments you are in this and other instances guilty of taking away from the Word falling short as in other things practising above what is written besides your different way of practising in some things So likewise for the government and discipline in the Churches however the practise of the reformed Churches is in greater matters to governe each particular Congregation by a combined Presbytery of the Elders of severall Congregations united in one for government yet so as in their judgments they allow especially in some cases a particular Congregation an entire and compleate power of jurisdiction to be exercised by the Elders thereof within it selfe Yea and our owne Mr Cartwright holy Baynes and other old Non-conformists place the power of excommunication in the Eldership of each particular Church with the consent of the Church untill they doe miscarry and then indeed they doe subject them to such Presbyteriall and Provinciall Assemblies as the proper refuge for appeales and for compounding of differences amongst Churches which combination of Churches others of them therefore call Ecclesiae ortae but particular Congregations Ecclesiae primae as wherein firstly the power and priviledge of a Church is to be exercised And withall we could not but imagine that the first Churches planted by the Apostles were ordinarily of no more in one City at first then might make up one entire Congregation ruled by their own Elders that also preached to them for that in every City where they came the number of converts did or should arise to such a multitude as to make severall and sundry Congregations or that the Apostles should stay the setting up of any Churches at all untill they rose to such a numerous multiplication as might make such a Presbyteriall combination we did not imagine We found also those non-conformists that wrote against the Episcopall government in their answer to the arguments used for Episcopall government over many Churches brought from the instances of the multitude of believers at Ierusalem and other places and Cities mentioned in the new Testament to assert that it would not be infallibly proved that any of those we read of in the Acts and elsewhere were yet so numerous as necessarily to exceed the limits of one particular Congregation in those first times We found it also granted by them all
Churches allow particular Congregations such an entire and compleate power to be exercised by the Elders within themselves and wherein not such a particular Narration would have carried in the face of it some ground for the defference of their practise and allowance might have served to have pointed out the differences between your way and theirs But secondly As you relate the way and discipline of the reformed Churches it sounds somewhat harsh and strange that their practise should be one way and their judgements another their practise to governe each particular Congregation by a combined Presbyterie of the Elders of severall Congregations united in one for government and yet in their judgements to allow especially in some cases a particular Congregation and entire and compleate power of jurisdiction within it selfe Doe they practise one way and allow another way or doe they hold both wayes the wayes of God or what is it you meane in this Narration of those Churches or can it be meant in the same sense and acception to practise one thing and yet allow another or will you make the lesser matters practised in their particular Churches by their own Elders to be the same with some cases wherein they allow particular Congregations an entire and compleate power of jurisdiction within themselves Now the latter namely in some cases cannot be meant for then this last part is no more then the first neither can your words of an entire compleate power of jurisdiction in the particular Congregations be meant of smaller matters but of the greatest matters in some cases You shall doe well in your reply to english these lines about the difference of the reformed Churches practises in greater matters and their different judgements in some cases and shew us in what sense they meane it and whether it can be properly and truly alledged for your case of entire and compleate power in your Congregations Thirdly This which you here relate of the reformed Churches practise and allowance is fallaciously set downe and for your own advantage meerely to make out this third principle that you still chose to practise safely namely what the reformed Churches allowed and acknowledged warrantable onely they superadded Presbyteriall combinations whereas the reformed Churches doe not as you well know in the case and question controverted between them and you allow particular Congregations in a Kingdome and nation conceiving the reformed Religion to have an entire and compleate power of jurisdiction within themselves what may be in some of their books in extraordinary or speciall cases where there is but one particular Congregation in a Countrey or the like that is nothing to the point in hand it being laid for a common ground by them all that every particular Church in a Nation or Kingdom is not to be left to it selfe but that there is a necessity of a common nationall government to preserve all the Churches in unity and peace And to cleare the reformed Churches of France Holland Scotland from what you say they allow I doe not find in their books of discipline and platformes of Church government by which we must judge of their judgements nor in their practises that they doe allow an entire and compleate power to be exercised by the Elders of every Congregation alone either in the making or ordaining of Ministers or in deposing their Ministers or in drawing up a forme of doctrine worship and discipline for themselves they allow power of admonition suspension from the Lords Supper and of taking up lesser differences by the particular Eldership and if I forget not the Churches of France only practise excommunication by the Elders in particular Congregations without carrying it at first higher but then if we consider that in those Churches of France their Elderships goe upon certaine fixed rules in there excommunications laid down in their books of discipline who if they proceed otherwise are liable to censure themselves and their being appeales to Synods and Assemblies and all being carried in reference and dependance to Assemblies the case is very different now if the Churches of your way and communion in old England and in New would yeeld to have a government fixt and setled by Synods and Assemblies establisht also by the Magistrates upon which Rules and Orders they should proceed in the way of making Ministers and that such errors in doctrine and such evill manners ought to be the subject of excommunication and then agree upon appeales to Synods and Assemblies then there would be lesse dangâ—…r in such an entire and compleate power in particular Congregations To the second particular under this first head namely what some of the old non-conformists grant placing the power of excommunication in the Eldership of each particular Church untill they doe miscarry and then indeed subjâ—…cting them to Presbytâ—…riall and Provinciall Assemblies and that it could not be infallibly prooved that any of the Churches recorded in the new Testament were so numerous as necessarily to exceed the limits of one particular Congregatïon And that both the Ministers of the reformed Churches and our non-conformists all granted that there should be severall Elders in every Congregation who had power over them in the Lord I answer as followes For Mr Cartwright you not quoting which of his books you have reference to and so not knowing which to turne to to find out what you assert of him I shall not deny it but as for Mr Baynes Diocesans Tryall which is the only booke I ever heard of wherein he handles these points he doth in the third question give the Ecclesiasticall power and the exercise of it to a united multitude of Presbyters in which booke howsoever as intending his booke against Diocesan Bishops and Diocesan Churches to whom all Presbyters and Churches stand in subjection and subordination he pleads against them for the power of the particular Elders in the severall Congregations yet as against the reformed Churches practise namely of a Presbyteriall Church consisting of many particular Congregations and ruled by the Elders of severall Congregations combined he pleadeth not but expressely in answer made to those two objections from the Churches and Elders where there is a co-ordination and a communiâ—…y in government as in the Low Countries and at Géneva he grants the thing contended for against your Congregationall way even before miscarrying and shewes thâ—… great difference between the Diocesan government and the Presbyteriall in severall particulars and answers your objections which you commonly make of a forraigne extrinsicall power And for your better satisfaction reade and compare together the passages in these pages of Mr Baynes Diocesans Tryall page 21 page 11. What is meant by a Diocesan Church and in the 12th page two first conclusions agreed in and in the 16th page And for the non-conformists in their writings against the Episcopall government and Diocesan Churches though they put the Bishops their adversaries all they could to it to make them proove
be most willing to have recourse unto for our parts we saw not then nor doe yet see And likewise we did then suppose and doe yet that this principle of submission of Churches that miscarry unto other Churches offended together with this other that it is a command from Christ enjoyned to Churches that are finally offended to pronounce such a sentence of non-communion and withdrawing from them whilest impenitent ac unworthy to hold forth the Name of Christ these principles being received and generally acknowledged by the Churches of Christ to be a mutuall duty as strictly enjoyned them by Christ as any other that these would be as effectuall meanes through the blessing of Christ to awe and preserve Churches and their Elders in their duties as that other of claime to an authoritative power Ecclesiasticall to excommunicate other Churches or their Elders offending For if the one be compared with the other in a meere Ecclesiasticall notion that of Excommunication pretended hath but this more in it That it is a delivering of whole Churches and their Elders offending unto Satan for which we know no warrant in the Scriptures that Churches should have such a power over other Churches And then as for the binding obligation both of the one way and the other it can be supposed to lye but in these two things First In a warrant and injunction given by Christ to his Churches to put either the one or the other into execution And secondly That mens consciences be accordingly taken therewith so as to subject themselves whether unto the one way or the other For suppose that other principle of an authoritative power in the greater part of Churches combined to excommunicate other Churches c. to be the ordinance of God yet unlesse it doe take hold of mens consciences and be received amongst all Churches the offending Churches will steight all such excommunications as much as they may be supposed to doe our way of protestation and sentence of non-communion On the other side let this way of ours be but as strongly entertained as that which is the way and command of Christ and upon all occasions be heedfully put in execution it will awe mens consciences as much and produce the same effects And if the Magistrates power to which we give as much and as we thinke more then the principles of the Presbyteriall government will suffer them to yeeld doe but assist and back the sentence of other Churches denouncing this non-communion against Churches miscarrying according to the nature of the crime as they judge meet and as they would the sentence of Churches excommunicating others Churches in such cases vpon their owne particular iudgement of the cause then without all controversie this our way of Church proceeding will bee every way as effectuall as their other can be supposed to be and we are sure more brotherly and morâ—… suited to that liberty and equality Christ hath endowed his Churches with But without the Magistrates interposing their authority their way of proceeding will be as ineffectuall as ours and more liable to contempt by how much it is pretended to be more authoritative and to inflict a more dreadfull punishment which carnall spirits are seldome sensible of This for our judgements And for a reall evidence and demonstration both that this was then our judgements as likewise for an instance of the effectuall successe of such a course held by Churches in such cases our own practise and the blessing of God thereon may plead and testifie for us to all the world The manage of this transaction in briefe was this That Church which with others was most scandalized did by Letters declare their offence requiring of the Church supposed to be offending in the Name and for the vindication of the honour of Christ and the relieving the party wronged to yeeld a full and publike hearing before all the Churches of our Nation or any other whomsoever offended of what they could give in charge against their proceedings in that deposition of their Minister and to subject themselves to an open triall and review of all those forepassed carriages that concerned that particular which they most chearfully and readily according to the forementioned principles submitted unto in a place and State where no outward violence or any other externall authority either civill or Ecclesiasticall would have enforced them thereunto And accordingly the Ministers of the Church offended with other two Gentlemen of much worth wisedome and piety members thereof were sent as messengers from that Church and at the introduction and intrance into that solemne assembly the solemnity of which hath left as deepe an impression upon our hearts of Christs dreadfull presence as ever any we have been present at it was openly and publikely prosessed in a speech that was the preface to that discussion to this effect that it was the most to be abhorred maxime that any religion hath ever made profession of and therefore of all other the most contradictory and dishonourable unto that of Christianity that a single and particular society of men professing the Name of Christ and pretending to be endowed with a power from Christ to judge them that are of the same body and society within themselves should further arrogate unto themselves an exemption from giving account or being censurable by any other either Christian Magistrates above them or neighbour Churches about them So farre were our judgements from that independent liberty that is imputed to us then when we had least dependency on this Kingdom or so much as hopes ever to abide therein in peace And for the issue and successe of this agitation after there had been for many dayes as judiciary and full a charge tryall and deposition of witnesses openly afore all commers of all sorts as can be expected in any Court where authority enjoynes it that Church which had offended did as publikely acknowledge their sinfull aberration in it restored their Minister to his place againe and ordered a solemne day of fasting to humble themselves afore God and men for their sinfull carriage in it and the party also which had been deposed did acknowledge to that Church wherein he had likewise sinned In this part of your Apologie are contained the fourth and fifth of those five forementioned heads unto which I referred all I should answer to what you say upon your third and last instance about the government and discipline in the Churches The scope of which fourth head is to answer and take off a common objection brought against your way the strength of which answer is made up of those parts and stands in these particulars First In laying downe your own principles which you hold in such a case Secondly Your practise according to those principles occasioned upon an offence committed in one of your Churches which story you briefly relate Thirdly The successe and effectualnesse of your practise according to your principles illustrated by an instance Now for that common
right and as Magistrates have no power over Family-government to appoint whom I shall admit into my Family c. much lesse have they power over Christs Family this union of a Church is a spirituall right which is transcendently out of the sphere of the Magistrates authoritie and the Apostles taught the Saints to doe it without asking leave of the Magistrates yea not to for sake it though the Magistrates forbad it Heb. 10. 25. Now I beleeve you cannot show me any principle in Presbyteriall Government nor quote me the judgement of any Presbyterian that cuts short the power of the Orthodox Protestant Magistrate about Congregations and Assemblies as this doth 4. The Presbyterians doe grant the Magistrate a power about the publick exercise of the Ministerie that 't is so farre subject to the direction of the Magistrate that without his approbative authoritie or confirming authoritie or his toleration of it it ought not by the Church to be publikely begun in his territories nor practised Apollonius of Zeland who writ an answer to Vedellius by the command of the Waâ—…achrian Classis was a great Presbyterian and in that answer must needs show it upon occasion of Vedelius giving so much to the Magistrate in Ecclesiasticall things yet he grants the Magistrate this power about the exercise of the Ministerie Now whether your principles allow this to the Magistrate let your practises speake about your making Ministers and exercising of it as you doe 5. The Presbyterians grant to the Magistrates a power in private meetings as well as in publicke Churches over exercises there as well as those in the publick places So Voetius We reject that noveltie of the Remonstrants that the Magistrate hath no power in private meetings but onely in publike Temples Now whether you allow the Magistrates a power concerning your private meetings or onely over the publike meetings or whether you doe not with the Arminians make the ground of this power in the Magistrate the granting of a publike meeting-place I desire to be satisfied from you But by all this the Reader may see in these particulars you doe not give more power to the Magistrate for the Presbyterians give what you give and not onely so but they give that which you denie and so give more then you But Brethren wherein and in what doe you give more to the Magistrates power then the Presbyterians Had you exprest wherein the Presbyterians give too little to the Magistrates power and in what their principles are defective and wherein you give more you had dealt fairely and ingeniously and a man might have knowne where to have had you and how to have answered you but to accuse thus in the generall and not to signifie the crime is not just but as you do throughout your Apologie under the figge-leaves of darke doubtfull generall speeches cover your opinions least your nakednesse should appeare so in this place but not to let you goe away thus but that I may drive you out of your holes and thickets and divest you of your coverings and that I may a little take off the Odium and suspition that Presbyteriall Government may lie under amongst many who know not their principles by reason of this passage of yours The Magistrates power to which we give as much and as we thinke more then the principles of the Presbyteriall government will suffer them to yeeld I will propound some questions to you to draw out what you hold about the power of the Magistrate in Ecclesiasticall things and to give some further light for the present of the Presbyterian principles concerning the power of Magistrates referving the particular laying downe what the Presbyterians give to the Magistrate in Ecclesiasticall things and what not till my Rejoynder shall come out to your Replie 1. Whether the power of the Magistrate about Ecclesiasticall things be a power extrinsecall objective coercive indirect mediate accidentall and consequent or spirituall intrinsecall formall proper and antecedent Now concerning the first the Presbyterians give as much to the Magistrate as you nay more as hath been partly shewed alreadie but for the other the spirituall intrinsecall formall c. If you ascribe that to the Magistrate as I thinke you doe not nor your principles do not yeeld it unlesse according to your second great principle laid downe in the 10. and 11. page you are since the Assembly to please the Parliament the more as you may imagine come off from your former judgement and practise I doe referre you for satisfaction to the three most learned select Disputations of Voetius and unto Waâ—…us excellent answer to the tractate of Uttengobardus so strong that the Authour could never reply againe though in a booke published he promised to doe it and unto Apollonius learned answer to Vedelius Dissertation 2. I aske of you whether the civill power doth containe the Ecclesiasticall formally and eminently so as that power can give and produce the other or whether there is an intrinsecall dependance of the Ecclesiasticall upon the Politicall in their nature forme and exercise of them or whether there doth not reside in the Church all Ecclesiasticall power absolutely necessarie to the building up of the Kingdome of Christ and salvation of men even when the Magistrate is not of the Church 3. I aske of you whether in writing this passage of your Apologie you considered and remembred all those differences and distinctions given by so many excellent Divines as Iunius Zanchius Amesius c. concerning those two powers Civill and Ecclesiasticall and their Administration and in particular amongst the rest that difference taken from their matter and the subject wherein they make the subject of politicall administration to be humane things and matters but of Ecclesiasticall to be divine and sacred and if so whether doe not Presbyterians according to those differences and distinctions which distinctions are acknowledged also by your selves as by M. Robinson and by some of you in your printed bookes as I remember give the Magistrate that power in Ecclesiasticals which is given him in the word of God 4. Considering all Ecclesiasticall power and right is commonly by Divines reduced to a three-fold head namely potestas 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which of these powers doe you give more to the Magistrates then the Presbyterians or in all of them doe you give more or doe you not For the present that power you seem to give the Magistrate and intimate it that you give more then the Presâ—…eriall principles allow as may be gathered from the following words in p. 19. from those words in p. 17. The Magistrates interposing a power of an other nature unto which we upon his particular coguizance and examination of such causes profes ever to submit and also to be most willing to have recourse unto must fall under the last head of the power of judging and determining in matters Ecclesiastical and that upon
to their Ministers and Pastours with other such like 8. But in Ecclesiasticall matters and differences upon the Magistrates interposing his power what is it you will submit unto and what will you allow him to doe And what is that power you will give him in backing the sentence of Non-communion upon his judgement of the cause and how farre and in what will you obey him that so we may understand how this Civill power is intended by you for a remedie and helpe in Churches and betweene Churches For instance will you submit not to gather Churches nor set up Assemblies withoâ—…â—…is leave and upon complaints of the many mischiefes and differences occasioned thereupon will you upon his hearing both sides and judging that those who are gathered shall be dissolved dissolve them and not meet in those wayes any more Will you upon some members complaining to the Magistrate of some Minister or Ministers in their Church for preaching erroneous and unprofitable doctrine meere novelties subtilties and the Magistrate upon particular cognizance and examination of such causes judging that he shall preach no more will the Minister forbeare upon it or the Church to heare him in case the Minister would not yeeld will the Church now goe chuse a new and Orthodox Minister upon it or in case a member or more be unjustly excommunicated and they complaine to the Magistrate who calling the Church to account and hearing both sides shall judge on the Complaiants side and now order the Church to absolve him and order them to confesse their sinne publikely and appoint them to keepe a day of humiliation for it and order them to give him such a summe of mony for the wrong trouble and losse of his time in following the businesse against them will the Church now submit to doe all this yea or no What say you to these and the like cases Now I aske you this in the close because you pretend a great deale of submission to the Magistrate and to give him much power which though you did grant yet for the many reasons and grounds alreadie specified this would not countervaile the way of the Presbyterians in their spirituall censures by Presbyters and Synods whether you clearely and plainly allow this to the Magistrate because I finde in Manuscripts and heare that in Sermons by men of your Church-way the contrarie is publikely preacht and held as for example in that Treatise about a Church which goes under one of your names there is this passage with more to that purpose The Saints need not expect their power or leave for to gather together so as without it such a combination is unlawfull nor should they forbeare it out of conscience of the Magistrates prohibition indeed if the Magistrate should force or compell them to forbeare or persecute them they may forbeare actuall assembling Act. 8. 1. not because the Magistrate forbids it but in mercie to themselves And indeed about a Church Christian Magistrates have no more power then Heathen Magistrates had So that this is spoken by you where Magistrates are Christian and where Churches are already setled And adde to this that M. S. in his Reply in defence of your Apologie is against coercive and coactive power in matters of Religion and that you all hold a toleration and that the Magistrates ought not to hinder men or punish them for the matter of their consciences how then notwithstanding all your discourse of the power of the Magistrate which added to Non-communion will be an effectuall meanes to releeve persons injured to reduce Churches and persons going in schisme and errours shall persons injured be remedied or Churches and persons reduced For suppose the persons or Churches that now fall into such errours and schismes will pretend nay 't is so really that they in their conscience hold errours for truths and thereupon with-draw from such Churches to others nay suppose those who now receive these new truths should cast out of their fellowship and excommunicate some for holding otherwise as for instance a Church falling into Antinomianisme should censure some of their members that remain orthodox for legal Christians and for being enemies to free-grace and should judge themselves bound to doe so in these and such like cases what remedie is there for miscarrying Churches by all the power of the Magistrate you pretend to give to him But this is brought in here by you and given to him to put of that strong argument against your way and that you may have something for present to blind the eyes and stop the mouths of many that looke no further that it may serve your turne at such a straight whereas upon other principles you denie the Magistrate this when it shall come to be a matter of conscience And now by all the severall particulars under this fifth head the understanding Reader may observe that not only in many respects your non-Communion and Magistrates power are not a remedie comparable to the Presbyterian way not proper nor to the nature of the offences and things in question a way in stead of bringing things to an end redressing and mending matters amisse that will be but the beginning of more strife and making more differences and evils then either it sindes or can heale the mother and nurse of Confusions Disorders and endlesse contentions but also that all the power here pretended to be given to the Magistrate upon examination is no such matter nor will not amount to make good the ends propounded whereas the Presbyteriall Government here scandalized as either wholly inconsistent with this forme of Civill Government or else not giving it its due will be found by its principles not only to have powerfull spirituall remedies for all spirituall evils of the Church but will be found in many respects to make use of and to give honour and power to the Civill Magistrate as a nursing Father from first to last even in the ordinary way of the Order and Government of the Church beyond you besides what they give more in extraordinary cases in a Church miserably corrupted disordered c. Of which the Reader may read at large in Apollonius who was a great Presbyterian cap. 2. And so learned Zanchius in his Tractate de Magistratis shewes 't is in the power of the Magistrate not to suffer Heretickes nor erroneous persons to preach and he gives him coactive punitive power to cut them off Beza a great Presbyterian in his Epistles and other writings in matters of Religion doth not exclude the Magistrate but gives him that power in some things which you deny but besides that power they give the Magistrate they stand for as needfull in the Church Classes and Synods for the Government of it Zanchy shewes that discipline cannot take place where the Ministers never meet together the meâ—…ting of Ministers and Ecclesiasticall Synods we judge most necessary As no Politie Common-wealth or Kingdome can consist without their meetings Senates and Councels
all under his power and charge to worship God upon which learned Divines as Zanchius excellently show the dutie of Magistrates in reference to commanding and providing that their people shall worship God according to his will Rom. 13. 4. Ephes. 5. 11. 1 Tim. 5. 22. 2 Iohn 11. v. Revel 〈◊〉 20. with many other places in Scripture of removing away of evill and of not consenting to evill c the Parliament is bound to establish and to command obedience to that Reformation which is judged most agreeable to the Word and to suppresse and hinder all other It was excellently done by the Parliament to call together so many able godly and Orthodox Divines to debate and find out the mind and will of God for Doctrine Worship and Discipline and to give libertie to men of different judgements to bring in their grounds and after all wayes of enquiry and searching into truth and a Modell drawn up for them upon good grounds being satisfied 't is their dutie by their power and authoritie to bind men to the decrees of the Assembly and not to tolerate any other Doctrines Churches Worship or Government to be set up and exercised you ought not to suffer the weake to be destroyed nor the people to be drawn away by every wind of doctrine but when once upon good grounds the Reformation is concluded you must defend it against troublesome and turbulent spirits and in so doing God will be with you and subdue the people under you whereas if to please some people you suffer them to enjoy their own way God will not be well pleased with it neither can you answer it unto God You may lawfully nay ye ought in that which is good to compell men though they pretend conscience shall the errours of other mens consciences hindr you from yeelding that service which God requiteth of you may a Parliament displease God to please men or may they be pleaseâ—…s of other mens sins and wink at evill to content some persons No Parliaments in making lawes for Religion must depend on the will of God â—…led in his Word in the best and 〈◊〉 wayes communicated to them and not upon the consciences of some people 〈◊〉 The Toleration desired is against the solemne League and Covenant for Reformation taken by the Parliament and the Kingdome of England and Scotland and 〈◊〉 be coâ—…ed to without 〈◊〉 of that Oath and Covenant so that the Apologie and motion for a Toleration comes â—…o late the doore is shut against it the Kingdomes hands are bound so that if such a Toleration were not in itâ—… selfe unlawfull and against the dutie of the Magistrate yet now because of the Oath and Covenant 't is unlawfull so that whatever might have been granted before cannot now lest the Kingdome should be guilty before God of Covenant-breaking Now aâ—… Toleration and this moving for a Toleration by the Apologists is expresly against these branches of the Covenant 1. Against that clause in the first branch of endeavouring the Reformation of Religion in the Kingdomes of England and Ixeland in Doctrine Worship Government and Discipline according to the Example of the best Reformed Churches now in this Petition to both Houses you would be exempted from the Reformation of the best Reformed Churches so that unlesse you understand the Brownists New-England or your own Churches to be the best Reformed you have broken your Covenant but though you may understand it so and may be tooke the Covenant in that sense yet I suppose you cannot think the Paâ—…liament whom you sâ—… to for a Toleration took the best Reformed Churches in that acception but for the Reformed Churches so called and commonly knowne as of France c. so that their granting a Toleration would be against this clause of the best Reformed Churches 〈◊〉 't is expresly against another clause in the firsâ—… branch And shâ—…ll endeavouâ—… to bring the Churches of God in the three Kingdomes to the neerest Conjunction and Uniformity in Religion Confession of Faith Forme of Church Government Directory soâ—… Worship and Catechiâ—…ing Now if the Parliament hath covenanted so how can it grant a Toleration of so different a Forme of Church Government and Worship as the Independent way is from the Presbyteriall and how can you be excused from explicite formall breach of Covenant in this part of your Apologie having sworne and subâ—…bed to endeavour by all meanes to bring the Churches of God in these three Kingdomes to the neerest Conjunction and Uniformitie in Religion who in stead of so labouring and endeavouring or ever so much as trying whether you with the rest of the Churches may not be brought into a neere Conjunction and Uniformitie just before the time the Assembly was comming to fall upon these points in difference to put out this Apologie and to move for a Toleration before hearing what could be said to you for satisfaction or ever debating the points in the Assembly Is this to endeavour by all meanes to bring the Churches of God in the three Kingdomes to the neerest Conjunction and Uniformitie in Religion c. before so much as ever debating points to conclude magisterially as you doe in pages 22. and 24. against the Reformed Churches and to desire an exemption from Conjunction and Uniformitie with the rest of the Churches in this Kingdome 3. 'T is against that clause in the second branch that we shall in like manner without respect of persons endeavour the extirpation of schisme and whatever shall be found contrary to found doctrine and the power of Godlinesse lest we partake in other mens sins Now that which you move for is schisme and contrary to sound Doctrine the Church-way being a schisme besides many of your Church Principles are against sound Doctrine and the power of Godlinesse as that in your Apologie about the subject of Excommunication as that of a few people having power to joyne together and set up a Church and chuse what Ministers they will as that of the Independencie of particular Congregations from any Authenitative power c. so that the Parliament in the midst of their Reformation and blessed Conjunction according to the Word of God with the Reformed Churches should in allowing you a Toleration suffer a formall schisme both in Worship and Government in the midst of these Kingdomes 4ly This Toleration sued for is against a part of the fourth branch endeavouring the discovery of such as have been evill Instruments by hindring Reformation of Religion or making any faction or parties amongst the people contrary to this League and Covenant Now the Parliament is bound by this against all persons and things which hinder the Reformation and makes any faction or parties amongst the people now whether a Toleration granted yea but moved for would not hinder the Reformation of Religion and make Faction and parties amongst the people let it be considered I confesse I wonder how the Apologists ever took this Covenant or having taken
complaints and appeals now the Presbyterians in that give the Magistrate a power about the use and abuse of Ecclesiasticall discipline and Ecclesiasticall Causes and businesses yea and definitive to namely a politicall objective consequent power which may be diversly exercised both ordinarily and extraordinarily in a Church constituted and in a good estate and in a Church fallen and corrupted Voetius in his disputations upon that question In whose hands the Ecclesiasticall power is a great Presbyterian in that question grants and gives to the Magistrate a publick judiciall power of judging not onely with the judgement of knowledge but definitive in causes and matters Ecclesiasticall which judgement is consequent not antecedent because the ultimate disquisition is not in that whether that be true but whether they will by publicke Authoritie maintaine and execute that So * Apollonius in his Answer to Vedelius where he strongly pleads for the Presbyterians in that point of Ecclesiasticall power yet gives much to the Magistrate ordinarily in a Church constituted and well reformed in the point of this part of power and extraordinarily in the state of a Church corrupted and greatly disordered when the doctrine is corrupted and the Sacraments contaminated with idolatrous rites and discipline turned into tyrannie and when the Ministerie and all Ecclesiasticall meetings both inferiour and superiour conspire to oppresse the truth of God and to establish tyrannie in the Church in such cases the Magistrate may do many things besides the ordinary way now let me entreate you to consult the books of the Presbyterians and especially Apollonius answer to Vedelius of the severall particulars of the power of Magistrates about the use and abuse of discipline in a constituted Church besides the power given them in extraordinarie cases and in your Reply to this Answer satisfie me what you give more But let me tell you whatever power you five may have found out for the Magistrate which the principles of Presbyteriall government will not suffer them to yeeld some new power may be like that devise of Non-communion of Churches and Protestation to all Churches that they may doe the like yet your Churches may not grant it and so the Magistrates shall be never the nearer the power you give the Magistrate in the 17. and 19. pag. is not yeelded by many of your own Churches whereof you are Ministers A Gentleman a prime member of one of your Churches immediately after the comming forth of your Apologeticall Narration disclaimed and renounced that power of the Magistrate exprest by you in the hearing of a Minister a member of the Assembly who related it to me But what is it wherein you give more to the Magistrates sure there is something you meane and aime at in it if we could find it out suffer me to guesse at it and you shall see though you doe not formally expresse so much yet I have some reason to judge so First Doe you not meane in this phrase the Magistrates power to which we give as much and as we thinke more then the principles of Presbyteriall government will suffer them to yeeld that your Church-way consisting all of particular Congregations and not growing into great bodies by combinations and Synods the Magistrates power is greater over you in that he may easily deale with you and dissolve you at pleasure but for a power to grow into so great a body an Ecclesiasticall power as large as the civill so combined this may be formidable and dangerous to the State and too great for the Magistrate hereafter to rectifie this hath been by an active Independent upon discourse of these points suggested to me and how farre one of you hath reasoned thus in the hearing of many against Presbyteriall government and for Congregationall you can remember Or secondly Doe you understand by this phrase that when heresies schismes or strange opinions are broacht in your Churches and you cannot tell what to doe with them nor how to suppresse them nor how to have the persons censured being so powerfull in particular Congregations whereof they are members in such a case you give the civill Magistrate a power to question them for these heresies schismes and to imprison banish c. if they doe not revoke them New-England practising the way of Independencie and not having Classes Synods that have authoritative power to call to account and censure such persons were necessitated to make use of the Magistrates and to give the more to them a power of questioning for doctrines and judging of errors and punishing with imprisonment banishment and they found out a prety fine destinction to deceive themselves with and to salve the contrariety of this practise to some other principles that the Magistrate questioned and punished for these opinions and errors which now for want of Ecclesiasticall discipline and censure they knew not what to doe with not as heresies and such opinions but as breaches of the civill peace and disturbances to the Common-wealth which distinction if the Parliament would have learned from you and proceeded upon they might long agoe have put downe all your Churches and Congregations and justly have dealt with you as the Magistrates in New-England did with Mr Williams and the Antinomians Familists and Anabaptists there and yet have said they punished you not for your consciences nor because of such opinions but because your opinions ways and practises were an occasion of much hurt to the Common-wealth a breach of civill peace a great cause of many people sitting so loose from the Parliament a great hinderance to the Reformation and a ground of much distraction to the publike and of strengthening the enemy whereas the Presbyterians give the power in cases of heresies errors c. that are not remedied in the particular Congregation to Classes Synods Assemblies to question convince judge of censure and to apply spirituall remedies proper to spirituall diseases which I am confident of had such been in New-England in the Presbyteriall way there had never beene so many imprisoned banished for errors nor the Magistrates put upon that distinction Or thirdly Is it that you doe give a power to the Magistrate in Ecclesiasticall things of the ultimate determination of matters purely Ecclesiasticall which the Presbyterians principles doe not as now in matters of doctrine and in matters of scandall and in matters of censures excommunication deposition c. which are brought before and have past in Ecclesiasticall Assemblies to appeale from them to the civill Magistrate and to carry causes from thence to civill Courts to repeale and revoke them Your words and passages about the Magistrates power imply this and I find that many quick sighted men as the Walachrian classis nay a whole Synod after them in their late Letters to the Assembly apprehend you so and therefore I may upon good grounds judge besides the two former that you aime at this third in saying you give more to the Magistrates power then the Presbyterians
godly Minister of the City conferring with one of your precious Ministers about these points before he went into Holland and telling him This is Brownisme and Browne held thus what are you a Brownist Your companion and fellow-labourer answered him thus The way was of God but the man was nought namely Browne As for those words whereby you would evade the naine of Brownisme That upon the very first declaring your judgements in the chiefe and fundamentall point of all Church discipline and likewise since it hath been acknowledged you differ much from them 'T is not your saying so will cleare you unlesse you had named what that chiefe and fundamentall point of all Church-discipline is and how and in what words you declared your judgements and to whom for you might so expresse your selves as you doe in this Apologie too often whereby you might deceive the most of them to whom you declared your judgements yea many able Ministers and Scholars who are not versed in your distinctions and reservations and yet for all the declaring of your judgements differ very little from the Brownists except in different phrases and in not deducing such consequences Let me intreate you therefore to lie no longer hid under such generals but in your Reply declare particularly what you hold the chiefe point of all Church-discipline and wherein in that you differ from them But may I guesse at the chiefe and fundamentall point of all Church-government and discipline wherein you declared your judgements by which you would distinguish your selves from the Brownists Is it not that you give the power and authoritie to the officers and not to the people onely I have heard that of late you have declared your selves thus and the late Epistle before M. Cottons booke written by two of you implies so much But be it so though I can out of a letter of M. Bridges and from notes and manuscripts show that seven yeares agoe the expressions of some of you were otherwise yet this will not free yoâ—… for M. Iohnson fell to this and yet was guiltie of Brownisme for all that But in this also your principles and your practises are incoherent and however in fine words and flattering similitudes you dilate upon it in your Epistle to M. Cottons late booke yet it comes much to one the substance of which Epistle I will answer in my Rejoynder to your Reply or in some thing by it selfe and will wipe off the paint and guilt and then the naked counter and rotten post will appeare As for your publick profession that you beleeve the truth to lie and consist in a middle way betwixt Brownisme and that which is the contention of these times the Authoritative Presbyteriall Government in all the subordinations and proceedings of it I answer then Actum est de Presbyterio de Synodo You have determined the cause alreadie the Assembly may rise when they please and need sit no longer for the truth lies and consists in Independencie but I suppose though heretofore and when you wrote this Apologie you did so publickly prefesso and beleeve the truth to lie in your way the middle way as you terme it yet by what hath past since your height and courage is somewhat abated and you are not now so peremptory and I find now you write in another stile which becomes you much better We humbly suppose we humbly conceive again in all humilitie But if you be high still I must tell you your confidence hath deceived you and your middle way as you fancie it though I must still charge upon you refined Brownisme will prove like other pretended truthes lying in middle wayes just as the Catholicke and Arminian moderatours Cassander the booke called Interim and that booke of late times cal'd media via betweene the Papists and Protestants and betweene the Calvinists and Arminians And as for the way of your expression of Presbyteriall government I cannot but except at it observing that all along obliquely and as farre as you may you still asperse that You can here expresse Brownisme simply without any additions to it but you cannot passe by Presbyteriall government without a lash at it which is the contention of these times as if you would insinuate the blame of all the contentions and stirre of these times to be Presbyteriall Government whereas the truth is the contention of these times is Episcopall and your Independent Government which have caused and doe continue all the contention and stirres in Church and Common-wealth they mutually strengthning each other against Presbyteriall government and â—…o 't is still to be observed that all along in this Apologie where you speake of Presbyteriall Government you state the questions about that in the highest and utmost latitude but of your owne Church and way in the lowest yea lower then you hold as for instance in 11 12. pag. about the qualification of Church-members to deceive the Reader with your pretended moderation and the more to possesse the Reader against the jus divinum of the Presbyteriall way as for example in this place Authoritative Presbyteriall government in all the subordinations and proceedings of it Now the substance and summe of Presbyteriall governement may be according to Apostolicall Primitive patternes and yet all the subordinations and proceedings of it as it is practised in the Church of Scotland fitted to that Nation and Kingdome may have no Scripture examples Presbyteriall government in some Reformed Churches as at Geneva hath not all the subordinations and proceedings as Scotland being no Kingdome nor Nation and Presbyteriall government in England might have one subordination more then Scotland and some different proceedings in the manner and forme of carrying matters according to particular circumstances and occasions of time and place The Ministers of the Church of Scotland who hold their Church Government to be laid downe in the word of God for the substance and essentials of it doe not as I suppose hold that all the subordinations and proceedings as practised in their kingdome have a particular rule either of precept or example I doubt not but they well understand no whole Nation was converted to the faith in the time that the Acts of the Apostles and Epistles were written nor the supreame Magistrate in any Kingdome or Nation and therefore in no one Church or Nation where Christians were converted and Churches planted there could not be that formall combination into Classes setled Synods or generall Assemblies neither could the supreame Magistrate or a Commissioner for him be a prime member in their chiefe Assemblies and so I might instance in other particulars but the Church of Scotland find Presbyteriall Government in subordinations and appeales that is Government exercised in Churches and Assemblies which consisted of more members then could meet in one place and they find Assemblies where upon cases of difference there were more members and officers then of one Church as the Acts of the Apostles showes fully
whatever any of your way can say for it Secondly When an Assembly was first agreed upon there were not many more Ministers and Schollers of your way in the Kingdome who were capeable of such a service how ever you may be encreased since so that you had as much advantage as your condition was capeable of yea and favour too Thirdly Considering the many hundred Ministers in this Kingdome that petitioned for Reformation and subscribed the Remonstrance who also bore the heate of the day and never flinched for it and the small number of the Independent who fled also to save their stake and to keepe in a whole skin having quitted to our Churches and Ministery and making no account to be bound by the determinations of the Assembly it is more in proportion both Arithmeticall and Geometricall to have Ten of you members in the Assembly then some hundreds of our Ministers and yet you know the whole number of Divines who meet there does not much exceed 80 persons Fourthly Number is little where conscientious men having taken such a Protestation come together to seeke out truth being free also to receive and chuse any government laid downe in the word and not over-awed by power or feare of crushing nor byased by hopes of preferment it is true in such an Assembly as the Convocation house of Bishops and their Clarkes was number was a great disadvantage Secondly For abilities of Learning I grant you there are many members of the Assembly goe farre beyond any of you in that yet among you all and in some particular men of you there are abilities enough of learning speech and wit to bring out and enforce to the greatest advantage upon study taking time which you doe and writing downe your grounds any Scripture or Reasons for your way so that you need not complaine for want of learning but rather for want of truth in your cause which will afford no better arguments for it Thirdly For Authority I know not well what you mean by that in this place you having so many doubtfull passages in your Apologie whether the Authority of Parliament or whether the Ministers who are for Presbytery have greater Authority in the Assembly then you or what else Now if you meane the first that the Presbyterian party hath the advantage of you namely the Authority of Parliament I answer the Parliament interposes no authority to determine what government shall be but calls the Assembly to advise with and draw up for them what government is most agreeable to the word giving also a liberty to the fewer number in matters of dissent to give in their Reasons as you in the 30th page grant and imply you will doe And as for the Parliament who are Authority there are but few Ministers of the Assembly who have been able to doe more with them then you or who have had a greater interest in their favour then your selves witnesse all passages of Parliament from first to last wherein the Parliament hath honoured any of the Ministers either in preaching before them upon solemne occasions or in calling this Assembly or in employing them about the Scottish affaires either in Englaâ—…d or into Scotland or in the setting up a Lecture at Westminster or in appointing Licensers for printing of bookes what ever it hath been or how few the number that have been employed though but two or three yet still an Independent hath beene one But secondly if you meane that the Ministers who differ in judgement from you have a greater Authority in the Assembly then you I answer you are all equall having a brotherly equality there the whole Assembly not having Authority that is Jurisdiction and power of censure over the meanest to cast him out or to hinder him from speech according to rule and order And as for authoritie of speaking in the Assembly and of being heard some of you have exercised as much of that as most there and for authority with the people to lead them whether you or most of the Ministers in the Assembly have the greatest is no controversie witnesse the deepe censures upon the Assembly and the godly Ministers every where by multitudes of the people but the great applause and crying up of you and other independents So that if authority with many well meaning people be an advantge it is on your side and that hath done you heretofore some service to make many men more shie of preaching against your way because of your great authority with the people that being ground enough to put many men out of the state of grace with some sorts of people besides â—…f authority in the peoples hearts could sway any thing with the Assembly against the truth yea but to suspend their judgements about the truth as I am confident it doth not then you would have the advantage of authority to sway the Assembly rather to your side then against you 4. For the fourth disadvantage the streame of publike interest this is a dangerous insinuation against the Assembly yea and the Parliament too without whom nothing the Assemby doth can be of any validitie as if they would be carried with the streame of publike interests rather then by the word of God and would bend the word of God to the streame of publike interest now let me put you this Dilemma either the publike interest of this Kingdome at this time will stand and agree with the word of God or it will not if it will stand then not only the Assembly but you also should be for that interest accounting the publike interest so suiting to the word of God an advantage but if it will not stand with the word but that the streame of publike interest runnes one way and Gods word another way can you think the Assembly will be carried with publike interest and leave the streame of the word would not the Assembly rather follow the word of God accounting walking according to that the greatest and most publike interest hath the Parliament Kingdome and Ministers done and suffered so much for a Reformation according to the word of God and now after all this is there a streame of publike interest divided from the word to carry away the Ministers called together according to which a government must be framed and the Church reformed and this is the great disadvantage that some members of the Assembly who would goe according to the word of God meet withall and must be put to swimme against Bretheren what will the Prelates say of our Reformation and Church government when you speake thus have not you put a sword into their hands this day against us and shall we not heare of it but I wish bretheren whilst you thus asperse the Assembly with the danger of being carried a way with the streame of publike interest that the streame of your own particular private interest and credit among the people did not too much carry you away as many other waies so in writing
it that they should ever dreame more of a Toleration or think it possible the Parliament should grant it the Covenant being so direct against a Toleration Many of the Church-way and Communion have and doe apprehend all this that taking the Covenant and a Toleration of Independencie cannot stand together and thereupon there are Ministers and people of that way had not taken it whatever they may of late I have been told from a good hand that some of the Apologists had much adoe to bring themselves to take it and that it was a bitter pill to get downe and one of some qualitie assured me that Mr Nye told him in Scotland that when the Covenant had passed there and was to be sent for England he writ with all earnestnesse and possible Conjurements to Mr Goodwin Mr Bridge c. not to oppose it or be against it as much fearing how it would goe downe To conclude this Reason For the Parliament to allow such a latitude as a Toleration it would be against the solemne Covenant For the Ministers to be silent and not to witnesse against such a Toleration desired would be in them a breach of the Covenant and therefore in respect to the Covenant I have taken I here witnesse against Tolerations of different sects and Churches The people by vertue of their Covenant are by all wayes and meanes in their places and callings engaged to oppose such a Toleration by their prayers to God against it c. Lastly our brethren of Scotland are ingaged with all their power and might in their places to oppose it Now the Apologists in petitioning for a Toleration have not only broken the Covenant themselves but they endeavour by all their wit and art in this Apologie to bring the Parliament and Kingdome into so great a guilt as the breach of this solemne Covenant 3. A Toleration is against the nature of Reformation a Reformation and a Toleration are diametrally opposite The commands of God given in his Word for Reformation with the Examples of Reforming Governours Civill and Ecclesiasticall doe not admit of a Toleration how many things might be produced out of some Sermons and Lectures of the Apologists concerning the nature of Reformation and of the Magistrates dutie in Reformation which crosse and thwart Tolerations and if the consciences of some men being unsatisfied must be a dispensation against removing such a thing or commanding such a thing there will never be no perfect nor thorough Reformation for what generall Reformation can there be but will be against many mens consciences the takinâ—… away of what men have long enjoyed and the bringing in of quite other things will trouble many consciences and if Magistrates or Ministers may not settle things contrary to the consciences of many but tolerate and allow them wherin they plead Conscience they shall never doe Gods work In King Edwards and Queen Elizabeths Reformations how was it against the Consciences of many taking away the Masse Confession to the Priest bringing in the Common Prayer Booke In this present Reformation how much is it against many mens Consciences the taking away the Government of the Church by Bishops the present Lyturgie and establishing another Government and Forme of publike Worship who if they might be allowed a Toleration would not admit a Reformation must not the Assembly and Parliament proceede therefore in the worke of Reformation because all mens consciences are not satisfied if this principle were once given way to that nothing might be removed nor nothing brought in which offends consciences but in such a case persons must have a libertie and Toleration men would still pretend conscience and so nothing to purpose should ever be reformed publiquely and all the Scripture speakes of Nationall and Generall Reformation by way of commanding and commending it should be just nothing depending meerely upon Tolerations that is there shall be a Reformation unlesse men desire a Toleration and the upshot of all will be this that so many of such a mind shall enjoy their way and so many of another mind their way c. and they who will yeeld to the Reformation by Nehemiah and Ezra may were there ever such Reformations read of in the Scriptures 4. A Toleration of men in their errours this pretended Libertie of conscience is against the judgement of the greatest lights in the Church both antient and moderne I might out of Ecclesiasticall Histories as Theodoret â—… relate the praises of those Emperours Theodosius Arcadius c. who would not suffer the meetings of the Heretioues but did by positive Lawes amerce and banish them as also the brands and blemishes cast upon those Emperours who suffered the Arrians and other Heretiques I might out of Augustine Ambrose Calvin Philip Melancthâ—…n Peter Marty Zanchius Musculus Bullinger bring many sentences againsâ—… Tolerations and leaving men to the libertie of their owne consciences and how by lawes and Discipline Magistrates may command obedience to the Worship of God established and to return into the Unitie of the Church But out of many I will give you the judgement of two Augustine and Beza Augustine in his Epistle to Vincentius writes to this purpose declaring to him though he was sometimes of that opinion that erroneous men should not be dealt with by force but only by the Word of God yet now by the arguments of others and by the visible examples of many being reduced from errours by that meanes he had changed his judgement and that therefore the Lawes of Princes might be lawfully made use of against errours And for this coactive power he brings many grounds in that Epistle and he speakes thus If we tolerate men in their errours and nothing be thought upon or done by us which may be likely to terrifie and recover them we shall truly render evill for evill If men be compelled and terrified but not instructed this is a tyrannizing over them but again if they be â—…aught and not feared they will move the slower to goe in the way of life not every one who spares is a Friend nor every one who chastiseth is an enemie And dost thou think no force is to be used to a man that he may be delivered from the perâ—…itiousnesse of his errour when as we know God himself doth so in many Examples and speaking on that point he saith it must not be so much considered that a man is compelled as what that is to which he is compelled In this Epistle the Father answers some objections brought against compelling men as that this does no good to â—…ome as that this is persecution as that these Heretiques would not doe so c. so he writes in his 50. Epistle to Boniface and in his 204. Epist. to Donatus upon the same subject And in his Retractations he retracts this errour which he sometimes held and had writ of 〈◊〉 it did not please him that schismatickâ—…s should be compelled 〈◊〉 〈◊〉
to Communion by the force of any sâ—…cular powâ—…r and gives his reasons there of the change of his judgement from what he formerly held because now he had experience how much evill the Toleration and suffering of them did as also how much the diligence of Discipline would conferre to the making of them better Beza in his Epistles and other writings speakes much against Tolerations and the libertie of Conscience pleaded for and answers to that whether libertie of Conscience is to be permitted No as this libertie is understood that is that every man may worship God after what manner he will himselfe For this is a meere diabolicall opinion That every one is to be suffered that if he will he may perish And in the same Epistle he saith of Tolerations This is that diabolicall libertie which hath filled Polonia and Transylvania with so many plagues of opinions which otherwise else no countries under the Sun would have tolerated And in this Epistle he tels him to whom he writes that which I perceive you call libertie of conscience but I on every side call an open destruction and ruine So in his Confession of Faith under that head of the office of the Christian Magistrate he speaks thus His office is to preserve the publike peace and quietnesse now whereas that cannot be rightly done but the true worship of God must flourish in the first place from whence flowes all happinesse it followes that nothing ought to be more looked to by the Christian Magistrates theÌ„ to have the Church ordered according to the rule of Gods Word whose authoritie they may defend and vindicate against all contemners and disturbers neither are they here to be hearkned unto who under the maske and colour of false pitie and mercie and not only by vaine and foolish arguments but arguments joyned with a great deale of impietie doe exempt false prophets and heretiques from the sword of Princes when as on the contrary no kind of men are to be compelled with greater severity as the expresse word of God commands and religious Princes have alwaies done And upon that subject that Heretiques ought to be punished by the Civill Magistrate he hath writ a book at large answering all the objections for Tolerations and pretended liberty of conscience And to the judgement of the Fathers and the Moderne Writers in this point I will adde the judgement of the Divines of New-England who are against the Toleration of any Church-Government and way but one For the Discipline appointed by Iesus Christ for his Churches is not arbitrary that one Church may set up one and practise one forme and another another forme as each one shall please but is one and the same for all Churches and in all the Essentials and Substantials of it unchangeable and to be kept till the appearing of Iesus Christ. And if that Discipline which we here practise be as we are perswaded of it the same which Christ hath appointed and therefore unalterable we see not how another can be lawfull And so in New-England they will not suffer Brownists Anabaptists Antinomians Mr Cotton the greatest Divine in New-England and a pretious man is against Tolerations and holds that men may be punished for their consciences as will appeare by his Letter to Mr Williams and Mr Williams answer both printed and his Exposition on the Vials wherein he answers an objection But you will say conscience should not be forced c. he answers Why doe you thinke Heretiques were not as conscionable in the old Testament as now if any man had a conscience to turne men from God he would have men of as much conscience to cut them off 5. The Magistrates Toleration of errours and new opinions is a kind of Invitation to them a Temptation and occasion of many falling who otherwise never would a snare to many a stumbling block laid before the weake the leaving a pit or well uncovered an opportunitie for Sathan a mans owne corruption or seducers to worke upon and to draw away by when men may broach opinions and vent them hold and practise what they please without any danger nay with the leave and countenance of the Magistrate what advantage will not Satan and wanton witted men take by this opportunitie makes many a thiefe and impunitie makes many venture and as 't is a shroud temptation to make many fall so a Toleration is a meanes of confirmation in the way of errour a great block to stop up the way of many who might be gained for ever returning when men know they may have their own way and are at their libertie they will goe oâ—… the engagement of credit c. is much being in a way to continue in it they have no necessity of harkning to Councell or waighing arguments But the deniall of a Toleration and by positive Lawes commanding the contrary as 't is a great Preservative so 't is a Restorative and a meanes of recovering many when men see they cannot have their wils they will consider a little better what they doe as also review their former thoughts and so may be reduced yea multitudes have blessed God they have not been left to their owne libertie but that by severity of Discipline meanes have been used This evill of Tolerations and good of Coactions by Lawes hath been seen and approved of by long experience Augustine that holy and learned Father from the experience of this changed his judgement about Tolerations whereas it was his first judgement and he had in a former Book writ that it did not please him that Schismaticks should be compelled and forced to communion by the force of any secular power afterwards he was of another mind and writes that the grounds of his change were these 1. The great evill of Tolerations the great evill that impunitie made many run into 2. The great good compulsion conferred to the making of many better which he saw by many Examples of whole Cities converted from Donatisme and comming to the Unitie of the Church In the 48. Epistle formerly quoted he writes thus to Vincentius That it was his opinion at first that no man was to be compelled to the Unitie of the Church all was to be done by perswasion we were to strive by disputation and to overcome by reason lest we should make those fained Catholiques whom we knew to be open Heretiques but this my opinion was overcome not by words but by demonstrative examples for first of all my owne city was brought to me for an Example which being wholly for Donatus was converted to the Catholike Unitie by the feare of the Imperiall Lawes so many other cities were named and reckoned up to me to these examples brought me by my Colleagues I gave place we see not 〈◊〉 few men but many cities who were Donatists to be now Catholiques and vehemently to detest that diabolicall separation and zealously to love unitie which persons were by the meanes