Selected quad for the lemma: judgement_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
judgement_n	aaron_n	house_n	iniquity_n	14	3	9.0895	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A32820	The ivstification of the independant chvrches of Christ being an answer to Mr. Edvvards his booke, which hee hath written against the government of Christ's chvrch and toleration of Christs, publike worship : briefely declaring that the congregations of the saints ought not to have dependancie in government upon any other : or direction in worship from any other than Christ their head and lavv-giver / by Katherine Chidley.	Chidley, Katherine.	1641 (1641)	Wing C3832; ESTC R5068	79,911	92

you so void of true piety towards that Honourable House or judge you that House so void of common Reason being as they are indeede the very Eyes of the whole land the Eares of the whole land and the Tongue of the whole land yea the hand and power of the whole land being so as I conceive in my simplicity would you have them I say to be blinde of one eye and to looke upon the Petitions and complaints of some of the people of the land and not upon all would you have them so partiall would you have them also deafe of one ●are that they should not hearken to the cries and petitions and complaints of all the Kings subjects one as well as another would you have them also so defective in their tongue that they should not be for the praise of them that doe well as well as for the punishment of evill doers nay seeing they are called Gods * would you have their hands so shortned that they should not once stretch them forth to support and helpe the poore afflicted members of Jesus Christ Then indeede you would have them very unlike unto Moses even as unlike as your selves are unto Aaron Would you have this House to exercise their power upon persons before they have made due triall of the cause by hearing witnesses speake on both sides truely Mr. Edwards if you would as it appeareth plaine it is your minde then I will submit to the judgement of both the Houses of Parliament whether you be not a man void of common Reason for he is a foole that judgeth a matter before he know it And you are not onely void of Reason your selfe but you would have the Parliament to be like you for if the Parliament should judge a man before they heare his cause they would be like the Court at Lambeth which were used to sit in the high Priests Hall judgeing matters without due triall Further you say you are perswaded that it will never be said of this Parliament that they opened a doore for Toleration For Answer to this I must tell you that I conceive they may receive a Petition and yet not open a doore for Toleration I meane for such a Toleration as you here speake of for setting up Churches against Churches for that is not the Toleration that we pleade for but your evill conclusion And therefore you may pray if you will that that doore may be kept shut And we will pray also that all doores may be kept shut that will let any evills into the Kingdome in processe of time least that any succeeding generations should have cause to write in their Chronicles of this Parliament as it was written of Naaman the Syrian that is as you say it will be said of them but they granted a Toleration Moreover we desire nothing at their hands that may cast a darke shadow upon their glorious light But that which we desire is liberty of conscience to practise Gods true worship in the land wherein we were borne which will be no blemish to any Christian Magistrate to grant nor for any Counsell of state to establish And therefore you should not have concluded this your Discourse against independancie and against Toleration before you had offered it to the triall before some lawfull Committee chosen by the Parliament to heare both you and them and then if you could have maintained your Churche of England which you plead for with your Synods and Counsells Ceremonies and Booke-worship Canons and Sensures Citations Degradations and Excommunications with your Absolutions to be founded upon the substance of that Worship and Discipline which you say Calvin affirmeth is expressed in the Scriptures then you might with the more shew of honesty have admoninished the Parliament to have cast out their Petitions but till then you may lay your hand upon your mouth and never for shame affirme that the granting of Toleration unto us to worship God without molestation will be setting up Churches against Churches Neither ought you to have concluded against them before you had proved their way of worship to be contrary to the word of God or not to have footing in his word as yours hath not for except you had done this you have small cause to rejoyce in your thoughts in respect of the accounts that you are to give about this coutraversie for your contraversie can be conceived at the best to be but the contraversie that Paul had when he went unto Damascus which was a Contraversie against Christ * though Christ in his rich grace pardoned him when hee had smitten him downe and driven him out of himselfe and made him to confesse that he knew not Christ in these words where hee saith LORD WHO ART THOV and further acknowledged that he knew not the will of Christ by asking him with these words WHAT WILT THOV HAVE ME TO DOE thus you may see though the controversie was against Christ yet Paul was reconciled to God the Father by Iesus Christ the Sonne and endued with the holy Ghost which made him a Minister of the New Testament which all his humane learning could not doe And Paul might have boasted that he was stirred up by the Spirit of God against the way of Christ as you boast that you are stirred up by Gods Spirit against the way of Separation But that would not have justified Paul much lesse shall it justifie you for Paul did that hee did out of a zeale to maintaine the Law of God But yours is to maintaine the Law of Sinne even the Law of Sathan Paul persecuted those that he did conceive to be evill but you persecute those that you acknowledge good men and such as have beene active and famous for God And therefore you have no neede to boast of the Spirits enabling you all along and that above your owne strength as you declare for it may plainely appeare unto all men of understanding that it was the very spirit of delusion And therefore you may justly expect Censures and Reproaches as you say you doe because your way in this action was not pleasing to God But for my part instead of censuring you I would rather reprove you and admonish you rather than reproach you and pray that God might turne you And if God would be pleased to give you that reward of your labour which hee gave unto Paul even to strike you downe and to make you to heare his voyce and learne to know him and what he would have you to doe then it would turne much to the praise of God and to the comfort of your poore soule if you be a chosen vessell unto him which is the thing you pretend you aime at and then you shall be sure to gaine truth and love and peace and holinesse in all your after discourses when you shall speake with a new tongue and expresse the language of Canaan And now Mr. Edwards for conclusion of the whole I doe here affirme that if

practise of the truth even as you say you apprehend evill in the practise of Independancie though they see it not that practise it because say you they are ingaged in it but it was ignorance in Paul so to thinke and so at the best it is ignorance in you Therefore you have no neede to say that you see more evill in it then the Independants can doe but you should rather have said you seeme to see for you cannot see an evill where none is But you wish that the Independant Ministers would consider what hath beene written I answer Indeede for my part if their considerations be as mine and though they consider it as I doe without partialitie yet they will finde nothing in it to perswade them to lay aside all thoughts of setting up separated Assemblies which hath beene plainely proved to be the way of God much lesse that they should come and grow into one body and joyne in one way with you so long as you have so foule a body which you confesse you have and your way so contrary to the way of Christ being indeede away of your owne devising And touching the counsell of Mr Calvin to this purpose I say If he should counsell as you counsell it would be to me but a as blast of breath for we are to take the councell of the holy Ghost by the mouth of Paul which bids us follow him as hee followes Christ But you would have us to consider what Paul requires in a Pastor of which things you say this is not the least that hee ought not to be selfe-willed that is say you to be adicted to his owne proper judgement I answer I have considered this text already and doe conceive that this rule of Paul is broken by the Pope of Rome and the Popes of England which are adicted to their owne wills and set up their own proper judgements for a Law which evill and error Paul saw in his time when he said the mystery of iniquitie began then to worke Moreover I do acknowledge that it is a vertue in a go●d Pastor from his heart to feare contentions and not to differ from his brethren ●nlesse it ●e in cases greatly necessary but what is all this which you have said to the matter in hand you know Paul spake to the Churches planted in the order of Christs Gospell and not by the order of the man of Sin and therefore it will not help you to call them againe to consider what they may enjoy in your Church for I have proved it plainely before in my reply to your Answer to their third Reason that a Saint of God can injoy no thing in your Church without sinne and therefore what you thinke you have shewed before in your three first Reasons is nothing at all for though you say it is but some circumstances that be wanting about the manner and forme of Discipline I tell you you want the substance even Christ to be the head of your Churche and have made you a head of Archbishops and Lord Bishops which head is full of leprosie But here you have brought Mr. Calvin to crosse you shrewdly and you would have us to beleeve him and indeed with my heart I beleeve it whether Mr. Calvin speake it or no you say he affirmes that the Scriptures expresse the substance of discipline this is very true but in another place you say that Calvin said there is no expresse precept concerning this matter And the like you rehearse presently in your next words for you say he affirmeth that the forme of exercising it must be ordained by the Ministers for edification because it is not prescribed by the Lord Doth not Clavin and you both crosse your selves here hath Christ indeede written in his Word the substance of Discipline and not the forme you would make indeed the substance of discipline without forme and voide even as the earth it selfe was when darkenes was upon the face of the deepe so you would have men conceive there is a substance but they must have no rule to know where to finde it for you say the forme of exercising it is not prescribed Here you would make Christ wanting to his owne house for we know that Moses had the forme of the house as well as the substance of the house and the forme of every Ordinance with every circumstance that was to be used in and about Gods worship and the forme was given unto Moses by God himselfe and Moses had not power to alter any thing in the forme neither had any of the Ministers which came after him but the wicked Priests did alter the forme and Apostated from the truth of those Ordinances taught by Moses even so the wicked Antichristians apostated from the forme of wholsome words given by Paul which was to follow him as he followed Christ And also from the rule of our Saviour Christ given to all his Apostles that they should teach the people what he commanded them Matth 28. 20. And this you may see was not onely in substance but in forme also for Paul expresseth to the Corinthims the very forme of breaking of bread which he had received of the Lord Jesus * and by this you may see you have given the holy Ghost the lie even as Calvin also affirming that the forme of exercising it is not presribed by the Lord and therefore I would have you Mr. Edwards to take the Counsell your selfe that you give unto others for it is very good counsell First that you please not your selfe in your owne Opinions Secondly that you be not so adicted to your owne judgement but remember the danger that Calvin laies downe here that a man being wedded to his owne Judgement so soone as ever an Ocation offers it self will be a Schismaticke and I have told you already that this was the first occasion of Schisme and Apostacie from the truth of the Gospels worship that being darke in their mindes and judgeing the substance of Gods worship to be without forme and as they them selves so presuming tooke upon them to prescribe a forme themselves so they being wedded to their owne judgement did Schisme from the truth of the Scripture Thus you say you have delivered your owne soule But to whom or from what you have delivered it I cannot tell But you say further you hope the brethren will withdraw their petitions that they may not be reade in the honourable house of Commons but if they should be read you say you hope the House will cast them out * I Answer That they should withdraw their Petitions is but one of your vaine hopes for they had more neede now to petion then ever they had both to God and men seeing such a Goliah as you musters up so many forces against them But the later of these your vaine hopes doth manifest the malice of your heart in that you hope the house will cast their pe●itions out Are