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A69024 A replie to a relation, of the conference between William Laude and Mr. Fisher the Jesuite. By a witnesse of Jesus Christ Burton, Henry, 1578-1648. 1640 (1640) STC 4154; ESTC S104828 423,261 458

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Incendiary For behold Lord what havock is made in the Land What superstitions in will-worship what oppression of the Gospell what persecution of thy Ministers what effusion of their innocent blood What dispersion of their poore families What prophanation of thy holy Sabbaths What erection and adoration of Antichristian Altars and Images What suspension of the doctrines of Grace and Salvation What usurped Tyrannicall Domination over thy Ministers and People What imposition of the intollerable yoake of Ceremonies upon their necks bringing them againe under Antichristian bondage whom Christ by the shedding of his precious blood hath made free And what urging and pressing with furious rage reaching up to heaven the observation of all humane Ordinances while yea and whereby thy divine Ordinances are cast out And what wilt thou now doe to thy great Name Thou hast of late by terrible signes from heaven as it were by sound of Trumpet summoned the whole Land threatning to destroy it Surely the provocations are great were not thy Patience greater But thou expectest Repentance with Reformation of all these abominations But little appearance as yet and as little hope while such Books as this are Patronized and Authorized What then Lord Wilt thou therfore proceed to judge the whole Land for these things Surely the whole Land is defiled and so the cause were just But yet remember Lord that thou hast a remnant yet left therein that have not bowed the knee to Baal And consider withall that they are a Faction principally of some few persons as the Prelates that have caused such confusions in the Land And wilt thou destroy the righteous with the wicked farre be that from thee Shall not the Iudge of all the world doe right And even now do not thy People lift up strong cryes unto thee against their Aegyptian Taskemasters and Babylonian Lords And behold Lord what a desperate Leader this Faction hath got even as Iudas was to the Rowt the Primate and Metropolitan of all England those Antichristian Titles he so much vaunteth of who because he walkes in Factious and lawlesse by-wayes therefore hath this Fox for his better defence gotten upon him the Lyons skin pretending the King for the Author and Patron of all his practises Now the Foundations being thus cast down what can the Righteous doe But thou art in the holy Temple Thy Throne is in heaven wherein and whence thou swayest all Scepters here below Thou art the King of Kings and in whose band the Kings heart is as the rivers of waters turning it which way it pleaseth thee And thou hast of late mercifully turned his heart to grant to his Scottish People their ancient Christian liberty both by freeing them from Ceremonies and from the High Commissions thereby cutting shorter at least the Hornes of the Beast in the exercise of Prelaticall Tyranny Now ô Lord be pleased to perfect this thy worke both in Scotland and England and throughout all Christendome by causing the Kings of the Earth that formerly were as hornes to the Beast and had given their power unto him to hate the Whore and strippe her naked and that by throwing down the Hierarchy the maine Pillar of the Antichristian Throne which is advanced above and against the glorious Kingdome and Throne of our Lord Iesus Christ. And for this cause ô Lord open the Kings eyes clearely to see the notorious hypocrisie of his Prelate who under a Colour of Peace and Truth goes about to overthrow all true Peace and Truth in his Kingdome Let him see ô Lord how dangerous it is to maintaine or countenance an Antichristian Faction within his Kingdome Let him see how naked his Kingdome lyes at this time exposed to all the stormes of heaven through so many crying Sins and desperate iniquities which the whole Land groaneth under ready to sinke to the bottome of hell Let him see and be rowsed up to a more watchfull Care and diligent attention upon the grave and waighty affaires of a King and especially not to commit the Care of Religion to Romish Prelates which are no members of the true Church of Iesus Christ. And withall ô Lord quicken the Kings heart with a Coale from thine Altar even with the zeale of the Spirit of Iesus Christ to enter into a present strict examination of the State of Religion as it now stands in his Kingdome And because thou hast in mercy stirred up and strengthened a Servant of thine to discover to the King not onely the great dishonour his Name sustaineth but the great danger his Kingdome incurreth while such intollerable things are suffered as thy Servant hath in his Reply laid open Now ô Lord let it be thy pleasure to bring this worke to a full perfection by the publishing of it that so both the King and his People by taking knowledge thereof may come to see what a miserable condition they are brought into by one blinde guide and bold Prelate And let thy Spirit ô Lord awaken and quicken the minds of the Lords and Nobles of the King and State to consider what a base vassalage all those are brought under who suffer themselves to be made slaves to serve the lawlesse lusts of one domineering Primate and at length wisely to foresee the mischiefes which the Altering of Religion to the worse and reducing all back againe to Rome may and will certainly bring upon the Land and upon themselves too if not the more speedily prevented by a sound and serious thorow Reformation Make the great ones of the world ô Lord sensible that there is a judgement to come and that there is a terrible GOD above them that shall call them to a strict reckoning for all those ungodly practises wherein themselves have either been Agents or Instruments either Principalls or Accessories as in oppressing thy Word and Truth in persecuting thy faithfull Ministers and the like And Lord stirre up all thy people to fervent and continuall Prayer and strengthen them therein to persevere and watch untill an Answer come forth from thy Throne to all their Petitions and Supplications which from day to day they have and do and shall present unto thee Oh let not our God be angry with his people that pray unto him with unfained hearts and lips nor let their enemies Say Where is now their GOD But Lord stirre up thy strength and come and helpe us Put the wicked in feare O Lord that they may know themselves to be but men And shew some token upon thy servants for good that they which hate us may see it and be ashamed because thou Lord hast holpen us and comforted us And let the Atheisticall Scornfull world see that it is not in vain to serve God and to call upon him and to wait for him And now Lord avenge the Cause of Iesus Christ against Antichrist and break down Antichrists throne and exalt Christs Throne that himselfe alone may sit and rule and raigne over his People and the show● of that King may
the Government of the best men it signifieth the Government of a few of the worst men The third is Anarchia that is no Government at all when without Law or Ruler every one doth that which seems good in his own eyes as Jude 17 6. and 21.25 and this is opposed to Democratia a Government of the people by good Laws These things thus plainly layd down we shall the more clearly proceed in our Point Secondly I note here your word Vice-Roy which every man knows doth signifie a Vice-King or one Deputed by the King to governe a Kingdome in his personall absence whereof there is usually but one in a Kingdome as the Vice-Roy of the Kingdome of Naples under the King of Spaine or the Lord Duputy of Ireland under the King thereof But yet every one doth not perhaps understand that among diverse Prelates you make your selfe a Vice-roy But looking more narrowly into your words we shall find that sense easily resulting from them For you say That Christ thought it fitter to governe his Church by Diverse then by One Vice-Roy that is by Diverse Vice-Roys rather then by One. All comes to one reckoning And besides you expresse the word Diverse and the word One with a Capitall to note that both have reference to Vice-Roy So as it runs Currant both wayes whether you say By Diverse rather then by One Vice-Roy or By Diverse Vice-Roys rather then by One. Thus 't is plaine enough Lastly a third word here is of some difficulty that you say Christ thought it fitter Now I never took you to be one of Christs Privy Councel so as to be made Privy to Christs thoughts and that in these things which he hath no where expressed in his word But this is familiar with you as before to tell us Gods thoughts But shew us where Christ hath expressed any such thought of his in his expresse word the Scripture If you cannot as you cannot how presume you to say Christ thought so Certainly my Lord Iesus Christ that onely Potentate and onely wise King useth not to entertaine such as you are to be of his Privy Councel or Cabinet that dare discover his secrets nay dare report that of him which never came into his thought And if ye be so bold with Christ others may be warned hereby how farre to trust you with their secrets and others againe how farre to beleeve your reports of Princes Pleasures or Purposes when perhaps 't is neither so nor so But my Lord your Places and Grace attended with all the Princely Pompe suits not with Christs Privy-Councel-Board He admitted none thither but a company of poore simple Fishermen Those were his Friends to whom he did communicate and impart his councels and secrets As Abraham being the Friend of God God said he would hide nothing from him No nor from any of his true-bred seed The secret of the Lord is with them that feare him and he will shew them his Covenant They are either strangers in the world as Daniel in Babylon or exiles from the world as Iohn in the I le of Pathmos or such as live sub Dio in the wildernesse as Iohn Baptist or dwell in a poore thatcht Cottage or so to whom the Lord Iesus Christ reveales his thoughts and not lightly to those that live deliciously and are in Kings Cours and goe in soft clothing their Traine borne up after them wherewith they draw the third part of the starres of heaven As a Cardinall at the Election of a Pope when there was a solemn Masse sung to call down the Holy Ghost to set the dissenting Factions of the Cardinalls at one and it would not be said Let us uncover the Roofe for the Holy Ghost cannot find a way to passe through so many tyles And my Lord if you tell us this as a revelation what Christ thought we have no more but your bare word as in many other things of like nature so as unlesse in a matter of such moment as this is you can shew us the truth hereof by some Miracle for confirmation as the Romish Priests doe for their Transubstantiation and Purgatory and such like secrets you must pardon us if we doe not give credit to what you so boldly say of Christs thought here But from your words come we to the matter which they import and which I say we still require proofe of which will trouble you worse to find then all the writing of your Book hath done And seeing you compare your Episcopall Government with the Aristocraticall which is the Government Optimatum of the Best men prove unto us to make your comparison good and that in the prime notion of it that Prelates are the Best men in the Church You are Megístoi indeed the greatest but are you Aristoi the Best Riches and Honours saith Cicero make a man to be Majorem greater Meliorem verò quomodo but how better I could never beleeve that the Papall Miter could infuse holinesse or an Archiepiscopall Pall Grace Nor could I see any Reason why Prelates should take place in precedency one of another according to the greatnesse of their Principality respectively as if the Pope were ever the more learned vertuous religious holy because he is Bishop of Rome or your Lordship because you are Titled His Grace of Canterbury Whereas precedency of persons should goe by their personall worth and age and inward indowments and not by any Prelaticall outward Prerogatives But this by the way But for your Aristocratie That Prelates are the best men to governe the Church of Christ will ye be tryed by the thoughts of Christ expressed by the Apostle which he had heard in the Third heaven in Christs Privy Chamber There you shall see plainly what both your and our faith may infallibly build upon namely who or what manner of persons they be whom Christ thought fit to Govern his Church You say Bishops So say we too But whether our Bishops be the same with your Bishops and that not onely for their Function yours being Diocesan and ours such as the Apostle speaks of Pastors respectively over their particular Congregations but for their qualities and conditions such as are required in true Bishops indeed let us heare the Apostles words Pistòs ho lógos Eítis Episkopes o'régetai kalou e'rgou e'pithumei This is a faithfull saying If any man desire the Office of a Bishop he desireth a worthy worke Orégetay signifieth an earnest desire quasi porrectis manibus prehendere arripere the Office of a Bishop perhaps you would translate e'piskopè a Bishoprick but our English hath turned it right The office of a Bishop for 't is called here a worthy worke And therfore it is not one of your Prelaticall Bishopricks which indeed you doe with both hands both o'rexasthai epithumesai reach after with all earnest desire for you reach after the Lordship after the Honour after the Revenues
their communion with Christ. Now for the second Instance of shaking the Foundation Christ which is Profanesse Tell me are not the ten Commandements Fundamentalls as being the principles and rules of our Sanctification So as the Popes Parasites are not so impudent as in their Decretals and other writings to affirme that he can dispence with the morall Law although they say of him in the Decretalls That Papa aliquando nimium Papaliter dispensat The Pope sometimes dispenseth too papally or Pope-like What say you then of the 4 th Commandement touching the Sabbath day of the Lord our God and the Sanctification thereof Dare you say the Commandement is not Morall being placed in the midst of the Ten And though that seaventh day being the Last of the week as wherein God rested after the finishing of the worke of Creation which he therefore appointed to be the Sabbath day of the Old Testament be now abrogated as giving place to a new Sabbath day the First of the Weeke wherein our Lord Iesus Christ having finished the worke of a New creation rising againe entred into his Rest namely the State of Rest Immortality and Glory is therefore the 4 th Cammandements Morality so abrogated as it is not still in force to injoyne us Christians the Sanctification of that day of the Week which is the Sabbath day of the Lord our God Iesus Christ Or doth it not aswell and by the same Reason bind us Christians to the Sanctification of the first day of the week as whereon the Lord our God Iesus Christ rested from a greater worke of Creation as it did the Jewes to the Sanctification of the 7 th or last day of the Week as whereon the Lord God rested from his worke of the Creation of Heaven and Earth It is so demonstrative and cleare that to deny it argues not onely grosse ignorance in the knowledge of Christ and of Divinity but also a mind destitute of grace and true sanctity that dare imagine the least imperfection or mutability to be in that or any other of the Morall Commandements Now if the 4 th Commandement bind us Christians as 't is cleare it doth and as hereafter I shall take occasion to be a little more large in it to the Sanctification of the Sabbath or rest day of the Lord our God which is now the First day of the weeke upon the same Reason that it obliged the Jewes of the Old Testament to keep the 7 th or last day of the week then is not the open profanation of the Lords day by sports and pastimes a shaking of a foundation of Faith Nor doe I meane onely a Profanation thereof de facto in practise either through ingnorance or custome or frailty but by open and professed Toleration and Dispensation and that by publick Edict incouraging people to such vain sports and pastimes as doe most Heathenishly profane not onely the Day but the very name of Christianity and Christian Profession So as this Profanation and so violation of the 4 th Commandement is of a very high nature and a sinne of presumption as wherein humane Authority lifts it selfe up against and above the Law-giver himselfe daring to dispense with his holy and eternall Law and that in giving liberty to the flesh to commit sinne even with greedinesse Now this Foundation of Faith whereby the Communion of Saints and all true sanctification of life is supported and maintained to wit in the due sanctification of this day in all holy duties publique and private being thus not onely shaken but with high contempt troden under profane feet through intollerable pride of men have you put to your hand as firmly as you can to support it Did you interpose your selfe that that Booke for Sports might not be revived out of the Ashes wherein it had lyen so long buried as it was all rotten and forgotten Or that it might not be reprinted with a new Enforcement Or at least if it must needs be so that it might not be pressed upon Ministers to read it in their Congregations to the manifest dishonour of GOD and their holy Ministry and to the great offence of their Consciences and of their People And when the feare of GOD and their owne Conscience withheld some from reading of it did you spare any of them from suspension at least Did you spare Mr. Wilson of Kent from Suspending him with your own mouth Nay were not divers Ministers in Surrey and els where as in Kent Essex c. so prosecuted as either they were put out of their livings as Mr. Snelling of Kent or els for feare of worse did voluntarily quit their livings and got them gone And when upon petition some were referred to you what reliefe had they Did you put to your hand as firmely as you could to support the poore men Or did you show them the least mercy or favour Nay on the contrary are you not the Grand if not the Sole Instrument both of reviving republishing pressing it upon Ministers punishing and oppressing them yea and undoing them about it Is this to put to your hand as firmly as you can to support such a Foundation of Faith when you not onely shake but breake down the Pillars by whose Ministry such a foundation is maintained Are you not then not onely too wary and one that hath more care of himselfe then of the Cause of Christ but too unreasonably bold and impious in not onely not supporting but putting to your hand as firmely as you can to the utter demolishing and ruinating of these holy Foundations of Faith both by your Antichristian superstition and Heathenish profanesse Nay in so shaking one Foundation the 4 th Commandment in the open toleration of the profanation of the Lords Sabbath day you shake all those ten Foundations overturning all holinesse all duties to God and Man as Infidelity against the first Commandement Setting up your May-Idol-Poles against the second Commandement taking Gods name in vaine in breaking that Baptismall vow of Christianity in renouncing all vanity against the third Commandement despising and abusing Gods Ordinances against the fourth teaching irreverence and disobedience to Parents and Masters and that expresly against the fifth Commandement giving occasion of murther against the sixth of adultery against the seaventh of drunkennesse and so of theft and opening the very flood gate to all wickednesse To conclude this point Either your Lorship is most grosly ignorant of the Foundations of Faith what they be or you are extreamely selfe blind in imagining that the world will not suspect any Serpent lurking under the green leaves of your goodly words having too much tasted of your bitter fruits so as your fair words and foule actions must needs make men asmuch abhorre your gracelesse hypocrisie as they doe your shamelesse impiety while under a faire colour and meere pretence of holding and upholding the Foundations of Faith you undermine them and blow them up L. p. 13 14. Comparing the Church
that seeth the Son and beleeveth in him should have eternall life and I will raise him up at the last day Marke here This is the Fathers will his resolution his revealed councell and purpose What That every one that seeth Christ not with bodily eyes here but with the eyes of his soule being illuminated by holy knowledge and so beleeveth in him should have eternall life and Christ will raise him up in the last day Here is Mans last happinesse to which God hath revealed t● us in his word that he hath resolved in his councel to bring Mankind by Faith and Knowledge together and without seperation as both seeing and beleeving And this doth the Scripture every where shew unto us Wherfore did God give some Apostles and some Prophets and some Euangelists and some Pastors and Teachers but for the perfecting of the Saints for the worke of the Ministry for the edefication of the body of Christ And Col. 2.2 That their hearts might be comforted being knit together in love and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding to the acknowledgement of the Mystery of God What a high and admirable expression is here And 6.7 this is to be rooted and built up in Christ. Againe on the other side what 's the Cause and sourse of all wickednesse and infidelity superstition and Idolatry but ignorance of God and of his word As Ephes. 4.17 This I say therfore and testifie in the Lord that ye henceforth walke not as other Gentiles walk● in the va●ity of their minds having the understanding darkened being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them because of the blindnesse of their heart c. So 1 Pet. 4.3 and Hos. 4.1 The Lord hath a controversie with the Inhabittnts of the Land because there is no truth nor mercy nor knowledge of God in the Land And vers 7. My people are destroyed for lacke of knowledge Because thou hast rejected knowledge mark it well my Lord I will also reject thee THAT THOU SHALT BE NO PRIEST TO ME. And on the other side againe The Lord saith I will give you Pastors according to mine heart which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding namely the people whom the Lord is in Covenant with But it seemeth your Priesthood standeth not with the nature and office of those Prophets which feed the people of God with knowledge and understanding You can teach the people a shorter cut to heaven and more easie for the Priest for you tell us God hath resolved to bring Mankind to blessednesse another way then by knowledge Wherin how farre you not onely dishonour but blaspheme the truth of God in Fathering such a foule and abominable lye upon him for this I leave you to that judgement which he hath revealed in his Word But you seem to doe all this in charity That the weakest among men may have their way to blessednes open A way open You meane surely the broad way and you know whither that leads and how the many such weake ones as you speake of goe in that way And broad and open your way had need to be both for the multitude of the travailers therein and for their blindnesse and for the darknesse of the way that so though both they and their guides be blind yet the way is so broad as they cannot possibly goe out of it so long as they do but follow their Nose which must be their guide for want of eyes But it may be you will alledge that saying of Augustine Indocti rapiunt regnum Caelo●um c. The unlearned and ignorant take by violence the Kingdome of heaven where we that be great learned Clerks are shut out Ergo the way is open for the weakest and shut against those that abuse their Learning to Gods dishonour and soules destruction But whom doth Augustine there meane by unlearned Ignorants that had no Faith nor true Religion in them Certainly ther 's no heaven for such The blind and lame come not within the fort of Sion But a true beleever may be unlettered or as they say not book learned yet not without knowledge For if he hath faith he hath a knowledge of God in Christ. And being Christs he hath the Spirit of Christ and this quickens him up ●o diligence in the use of all good meanes of saving knowledge as to heare Gods word faithfully preached for he knows Christs voyce and frequently read and conferred upon and he meditates on it his mind is much upon it as yours is of your honours and favour in Court how to keep them and he is still praying for increase of grace and faith and knowledge And my Lord many a such man I could bring that cannot a letter on the Booke that for all your seeming Learning would put you to your Trumps if your greatnesse would but descend so farre as to reason with him of the Scriptures and of Christ and so of faith and the like For there 's all his Learning And such unlearned ones they be who goe to heaven yea take it by violence as Christ saith when great Lord Prelates are shut out As Christ saith to the Pharisees The Publicans and ●arlots goe into the Kingdome of God before you for they beleeved Iohns preaching but ye when ye had seen it repented not afterwards that ye might beleeve him But you goe on in your blind way and say pag. 109. The way of knowledge was not that which God thought fittest for mans Salvation 'T is true not such a speculative knowledge as you speak of but God thought it fittest to bring men to salvation by a knowing Faith as before is shewed I will conclude this with the Apostles thunder As we said before so say I now againe if any man preach otherwise then that is delivered in Gods word let him be accursed And if the Scripture accurse him that leads the blind out of his way to which curse all the people say Amen then what curse is due to him that teacheth the blind such a way as leads to certain destruction of Soule and Body Shall not all the people say Amen to this curse L. p. 106. The Credit of the Scripture depends not upon the subservient inducing Cause that leads us to the first knowledge of the Author which leader here is the Church but upon the Author himselfe and the opinion we have of his Sufficiencie P. Doe you not make the credit of the Scripture to depend upon the Authority of the present Church when without this subservient inducing Cause you deny the possibility of beliefe that the Scripture is the word of God For you say expresly pag. 120. When I said Scriptures were Principles to be supposed I did not I could not intend they were prius cognitae known before Tradition Since I confesse every where that Tradition introduces the knowledge of them But if the credit of
Precious stones metà polles phantasías with her great pompe Visible no question and so visible and sensible too as otherwise we could not know her to be the Great Whore Thus she was shewed first to Iohn in a visible representation by which we also come to know her to be the same Woman when we doe but looke upon her Well visible we all grant her to be What more God hath hitherto preserved her That 's true too For even the wickedest men upon earth and the most Tyrannicall states that they are for a time yea and a long time too preserved in life and doe prosper also they owe it to God But to what end are the wicked preserved Their finall end is destruction to which they are r●served as Peter speaks and Paul too Cain and his Posterity whose Family was a type of Antichrists succession continued and were preserved and grew great for almost two thousand yeares till at last the Flood swept them all away But of Rome you have better hopes doubtlesse For you say God hath preserved her for a better end doubtlesse then they have turned it to Now doubtlesse I will shew you what that better is for which God hath hitherto preserved that Woman which hath been made drunke with the blood of the Saints Whom saith the Apostle the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth and shall destroy with the brightnesse of his coming And Rev. 14.8 Babylon is fallen is fallen that great City because she made all Nations drinke of the wine of the wrath of her fornication And Rev. 18. read the whole Chap●er of Romes ruine Yea and all that partake with Rome shall drinke of the wine of the wrath of God c. Rev. 14 9 10. What the Scripture hath spoken of Romes fall would fill a Volume And is not this the best end that God is pleased to preserve her for when he shal be glorified in executing his justice and judgements upon her for all her abominations and for all the blood of his Saints which she hath shed And in her confusion God will magnifie and exalt the Honour and Kingdome of Iesus Christ which tha● Woman and her Crew had oppressed and the Saints shall tryumph over her Yea saith the Lord Rejoyce over her thou heaven and the holy Apostles and Prophets for God hath avenged you on her And Chap. 19.1 2. I heard saith Iohn a great voyce of much people in heaven that is in the true Church of Christ saying Alleluja salvation and Glory and Honour and Power unto the Lord our God For true and righteous are his Iudgements for he hath judged the great Whore which did corrupt the Earth with her fornication and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand Behold here for what a glorious end the Lord hath preserved that Great Whore But it seemeth you do not mean to make one of that Company either to sing Alleluja or to say Amen when the Lord shal be magnified in that day For you hope doubtlesse for better then all this And so I am perswaded you have the like hopes that God hath preserved and prospered you thus long for no lesse then to be after scores of yeares in a flourishing estate here Canonized for a Saint in heaven for all the blood of the Saints both of their soules and bodies which you have shed Wherein you may have as much hope for your selfe as for old Mother Rome and all one But I leave you to the Righteous Judge who knows how and when to glorify himselfe as well upon the wicked his enemies by destruction as in his own Saints and servants by deliverance Here is the Patience of the Saints L. p. 375. Truly I say the same thing with him Neither may a Protestant that is resolved in Conscience that the profession of the true faith is in the Church of England goe to the Romish Church there and in that manner to serve and worship God P. Thus you jumpe with the Jesuite in this that as he saith 'T is not lawfull for one affected as the Lady was that is for one that is resolved of the truth of the Roman Church to goe to the Church of England there and in that manner to serve and worship God so c. Why will you let the Jesuite run away with it so Do you not know that the Law of England injoynes all Papists under penalty to come to your Church Now doth the Law injoyne that which in it selfe is unlawfull for a man to doe that is otherwise resolved in Conscience Nor is this Law repeald though as before it be a ●leep and grown justly in the sheath Now reconcile these two And what say you then in the Case of Conscience touching your Ceremonies There be some Ceremonies which the Law prescribes to be observed in your Church Now a poore soule is not in Conscience perswaded that he ought to conforme to such Ceremonies of necessity imposed as being ag●inst Christian ●●●erty and Christs Prerogative royall in being sole King over his Church ruling in the Conscience of his People Well you say in this case such a man is bound against his Conscience to observe such Ceremonies And if he be not bound why doe you so severely and terribly punish him for not daring to doe that which is against his Conscience Wheras the Papist otherwise resolved in Conscience you hold not bound to come to your English Church And so of your Protestant for going to the Romish Church being against his Conscience Will you not allow to the Conscience of the first as good Law as you doe to the two last Againe you allow a greater and larger liberty of Conscience to your Protestant to go to the Romish Church then the Jesuite doth to his Romanist to come to your English Church For he allows not his Romanist to come to your English Church that is resolved in Conscience of the truth of the Roman Church that it is a true Church and that the truth is there whereas you doe not allow your Protestant to goe to the Romish Church that is onely resolved in Conscience that the profession of the truth is in the Church of England Now there is great difference between the truth and the profession of the truth So as he that is resoled in Conscience that the truth is onely professed in the Church of England and is not withall resolved that the truth it selfe is in the Church of England may with more liberty goe to the Romish Church then the Romanist may come to yours that is resolved of the truth of and in the Romish Church So as herein also the Jesuite hath the advantage of you Againe if the Jesuite did meane by the truth of the Roman Church the profession of the truth in that Church he therein comes no whit behind you For the Church of Rome as well makes a false profession of the truth as your Prelaticall Church
Preeminence the Bishops Chaire hee prateth against Iohn hee receives not the bretheren and forbids them that would and and throwes them out of the Church by Excommunication just as you and the Pope doe This ambition and erection of Prelacie or Hierarchy was that Mystery of Iniquity which Satan began to brood and hatch even in the Apostles dayes and wherein we have Diotrephes quickly grown up as the first Cocke of the Game of speciall and particular note and name that durst affront even the Apostle himselfe And this Mystery of Iniquity hath continued ever since though at first and in the first Ages it grew up but slowly by reason of a tò katekon à Remora or maine impediment the Roman Empire whose Imperiall Seat being once removed from Rome to Constantinople by Constantine who consopited appeased and put an end to those tenne Persecutions which had been a great hinderance to Antichrists growth then began this Mistery to perke up and the Bishop of Rome Silvester the first could be content to weare a Crown put upon his head by Constantine which upon Boniface the eight his head was multiplyed to a triple Crown one for heaven another for earth and third for purgatory and thus by degrees successively it grew up to that height which we see it now arrived at even its Akmè or full Stature beyond which it cannot goe though it would So as its main care strength and policie is all little enough Parta tueri to maintain what it hath got Now I say in this Mystery of Iniquity I mean the Prelacie or Hierarchy was Antichrist begotten born bred up and at length brought to his full maturity and perfection Now is this Mystery of Iniquity therefore good because it is able to vie and plead Antiquity even as high up as the Apostles owne times and so along downe to ours Though I doe more then suspect that you take it in foule Scorne that I should Anti-christen your Prelacie or Hierarchie with the name of the Mystery of Iniquity But if ye will be patient a while I shall ere I have done give you I hope good Satisfaction And in the meane time the Apostle shall passe his word for it who in the very same place where he speakes of the Mystery of Iniquity doth speake also of the Man of Sin the Son of Perdition who is an Adversary and exalteth himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped who sitteth as God in the Temple of God shewing himselfe that he is God The very recitall of which words may suffice to stay any reasonable mans stomacke from breaking out into outragious impatience against him that saith The Prelacie is the Mystery of Iniquity But you shall have it God willing at full anon Againe some of your Divines goe about to drive the Antiquity of your holy Lent-Fast from the Apostles very times and so to have continued ever since in all Ages and Places where the Church hath taken any rooting And indeed some Christians even then began to observe Touch not Tast not handle not and to observe Times daies Moneths but the Apostle condemns all such observation and as before brands them for Doctrines of Devils and departing from the Faith and denying of Christ. So as though you could prove your Church-Government to have been in use both in and ever since the Apostles times yet it will not follow that it is such a Government as either was practised or yet approved by the Apostles themselves For your Church-Government is altogether Hierarchicall by Prelates which the Apostles never practised themselves nor yet approved but condemned in others that either began to practise it or were inclined and affected thereto Not as Lords over Gods Heritage saith Peter Not as having dominion over your Faith saith Paul It shall not be so among you saith Christ. Diotrephes loveth to have the Preeminence saith Iohn But of this we shall have occasion to speake more at after In the meane time take this with you Did the Apostles nay for some hundred yeares after them did Prelates keep Courts and Consistories with their Chauncellors Archdeacons Commissaries Officialls Tipstaves Pursuivants Apparators like the Roman Lictors with their rodds for terrour and state Or had they their private Courts to excommunicate whom they pleased and that by a dumbe Priest and for every triviall matter and for no just cause Prove these things my Lord to have been in use in the Primitive Ages at the least for the first 500. yeares or in any place but where Diotr●phes was untill Antichrist the Pope set up that frame of Hierarchy with all its Equipage Traine and Rabble the just Image whereof you have set up in the Church of England You speak bigge indeed but you cannot be as bigge as your word If you had leasure to read the Histories of the Church and among the rest the Centuries they will show you what a vast difference there is between your Church-Government as both now and of long time it hath been practised in the Church both of Rome and England and that ancient Government practised by the ancient Prelates in the Primitive Ages And in the Popes Canon Law and other Records à Polidor Virgil De Inventorebus rerum c. you may come to know the Antiquity of your Prelaticall Courts and Consistories Chancellors Archdeacons Officialls Commissaries Registers and all the frie. For beyond that seaven hild City the head-spring of this Seaven-Streamed Egyptian Nilus is not found Hath not then the Seperatist as you call him just cause and ground to charge your Church of England with Antichristianisme whose Church-Government and Discipline is such as the Apostles never approved but expresly reproved and condemned and practised the contrary For if your Church-Government be that which the Apostle brands with the Mystery of Iniquity and of Antichrist then surely you cannot excuse it from Antichristianisme If you say This is rather meant of the Church of Rome and of the Pope the Head thereof who you must needs confesse is very like to Antichrist if he be not the very Antichrist as indeed he is then of the Church of England Why wherein differeth the Church of England from that of Rome in Church-Government Do you not say you are both one and the same Church And wherein one and the same but in Church-Government especially Of which we shall speake more anon Now for Antichristianisme you know it comes of Antichrist and Antichrist is a compound word Anti in the Greek signifying both for and against So as Anti-Christ is one that under pretence of being for Christ is against Christ. Such is the Pope who pretends to be Christs Vicar which is as much to say as Antixristos Antichristus as Anthupatos Pro consul so Antichristus Prochristus or Vice-Christ And yet he is Anti Against Antikeimenos an Adversary to Christ as the Apostle sets him forth So as the Pope is
for this GREAT WITNESSE which here you bring in arayed in Capitall Letters to wit your externall will-worship in many devised Ceremonies of seeming Humility Devotion and Piety the world could not come to know what Religion is in your heart towards God in that internall part of his worship which you Speak of But now through the cleare perspective of your bright shining Devotion without we can discerne what Devotion is within Herby we come to know all that spirit of Infidelity and Apostacie and consequenty of Atheisme and Irreligion which is in your heart Do you set up Altars and adore them and set up Priests to serve at them to which you must needs adde a Sacrifice sutable some materiall and corporall thing Hereby we come to know how in your heart you deny Iesus Christ to be the onely Altar Priest and Sacrifice as is shewed before And were it not for your lowly bowing at the bare nameing of the Name Iesus you should want witnesse to testifie to the world that deep hypocrisie in your heart while in bowing to Iesus you persecute the Lord Iesus Christ in his Word in his Ministers in his Members So as your externall ceremoniall worship is the GREAT WITNESSE to the world that there is in you an Antichristian heart a Popish heart a Superstitious heart an Idolatrous heart an Evill heart of unbelife in departing away from the living God How then with what inward testimony of your Conscience with what evidence of truth can you say that your heart stands right in the Internall worship of God when the externall is so crooked and bowed together with so many lowly duckings and crindgins so as your Head and Feet doe even meet together And is not the Devotion of your heart every way as crooked Doth not your heart bow as and when your body doth And is not the Same object which your body boweth unto the object to which your heart boweth and wherein your internall worship is ultimately terminated and bounded For as Aug. Saith Quis intuetur Semulacrum c. Who beholdeth an Image that is not so affected as to imagine the Divinity to be in that Image which he adoreth And doe not you Say that your God-Almighty is upon your Altar which you bow unto when you Say of your Altar you will have none to fit above God Al-mighty So as either you Locally place God there or you make your Altar your God and goe no further But suppose you doe in and by that Altar which you bow unto worship God Who hath required such worship at your hands Nay hath not GOD in the Second Commandement expresly forbidden any such worship in or by an Image or any such thing as Man deviseth in and by it to represent and worship GOD And such will-worship is it not the fruit of the Will of your Evill Corrupt and Superstitious Idolatrous and Proud Heart whence it springeth and proceedeth O Proud and Blind Hearts indeed that dare make choyce of their owne selfe-pleasing devises in Gods worship thinking thereby to please GOD But GOD abhorres all such will-worship But it is Say you a testimony of your Humility But the Apostle expresly condemneth such voluntary Humility And tell me what is there in all the World seting your Honours and Dignities and Favour in Court aside wherein you take more Pride and Glory then in such counterfeit Humility wherein your Heart is more lifted up in perswading your selfe that thereby the World comes to take you for the most Devout and Pious Prelate or Person in all England and as whereby you so bewitch the Court with an opinion of your incomparable Sanctity then simply in these your externall Ceremoniall Complements Saving onely that they Serve for your GREAT WITNESSES to all the world that your heart stands right in the Service of God which indeed is a Service done to your selfe And this appeares in part through those Swelling words set down at large Characters EXTERNALL WORSHIP GREAT WITNESSE Is not this a cleare expression of a heart full of pride selfe-conceit and vain glory when you doe thus as the Poet said Proijcere ampullas Sesquipedalia verba strout it in such a swelling Style and big words And that the world may yet further see how little I misjudge in this let your own immediate words further witnesse For Say you Take this away this EXTERNALL WORSHIP this GREAT WITNESSE and what light is there left to shine before men that they may See our Devotion and glorifie our Father which is in heaven I remember indeed what Christ said to his Disciples Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works and glorifie your Father which is in heaven These be the words you play withall as a Descant of your Devotion But cursed is he Saith Christ that addeth to or taketh from Gods word Here you doe both for you leave out good works and in stead of that put in your Devotion and you put out the true Light there which is faith and put in the place of it your false Light which is your blind Devotion I say blind Devotion because of your own devising For as the Prophet saith If they speake not according to this word it is because there is no light in them So I say of that Feare or Devotion which is taught by the precepts of men Such have no light in them But your Dovotion is your Light when both you and it be blind As I have read of some Creatures that are múopes Mope-eyed as we Say that see better in the darke then in the day To such darknesse is light Such a light is your Devotion And such Devotion was in the Priests of Baal which was mixt or rather inflamed with great zeale Zeale in Launcing themselves that the blood sprang out Devotion in their long Prayers from Morning till Noon And this secundum usum Sacrum after their manner Now might not they have said as you doe This our externall worship is a GREAT WITNESSE to the world of our Zeale to our God and without which what light have we left whereby men may see our Devotion And such also was the Devotion of Hypocrites of whom Christ saith They pray standing in the Synagogues and in the Corners of the Streets that they may be seen of men Now might not these Hypocrites say for themselves This our externall Devotion is the GREAT WITNESSE unto the world that our hear●s stand right being testified by standing in Prayer so as without this light men could not see our Devotion So the Pharisees who were curious Masters of Ceremonies in will-worship they wore goodly broad Phylacteries and for pretence made long prayers Might not they also have said as you This our externall worship in long Prayers in our Solemne Robes with goodly Boarders is the GREAT WITNESSE to the world that our hearts stand right and without this Light men could
not see our inward Devotion towards God And say not you Our externall worship is that light without which men could not see our Devotion Iust as the Pharisees All they did was to be seen of men But you would perswade us you doe it to a higher end which is Gods glory For you Say Take this away and what Light is there left to shine before men that they may see our Devotion and glorifie our Father which is in heaven So here be two ends of all your externall worship and solemne service and great pompe and humble expressions of Devotion First that men may see your Devotion for els it were not worth a rush Secondly that they may glorifie God As I noted before these words of Christ you falsely apply to your blind Devotion which he Spake concerning the Light of faith shining forth in good workes to the glory of God Whereas your externall worship as it is a fruit of your blind Devotion so it is that whereby God is greatly dishonoured and that both actually in it selfe and effectu●lly in the beholders First Actually in it selfe all false worship or will-worship for both is one is a dishonour to God In vaine they worship me teaching for Doctrines the Precepts of Men. Now God is not glorified or honoured with any vain worship Nay on the contrary he is greatly dishonoured by it For such will-worship is a high presumption derogating from the Majesty of God who wil be worshiped no otherwise then as himselfe hath expresly commanded in his word As the Prophet saith And shalt honour him not doing thine owne wayes nor finding thine own pleasure And such is all will-worship Secondly God is greatly dishonoured by such externall will-worship effectively in the Beholders First because when they see such a great Prelate as your selfe use such gestures in Gods Service they are apt to imitate you and so to partake of your sinne as too many doe Secondly because in such false worship the neerer they think to approach to God in imitating of you the further off their hearts are from God as the Prophet Speaketh And they whose hearts are farre removed from God cannot glorifie God Now your will-worship which is taught by the Precepts of men though it seem to be very humble and so to draw neere unto God yet it drawes away mens hearts farre from God as there the Prophet sheweth And such as behold and affect and imitate your devises in externall worship they are as much puffed up with vaineglory that they imitate and so please such a great Man as your selfe as they never think of glorifying God And lastly God is not glorified by blind and Superstitious worshippers but by good works springing from the inward light of Faith Now your blind Devotion is not to be reckoned and ranked among good works For good works are such and so done as God hath commanded but your externall worship as you call it being a will-worship and so a false worship which God no where hath commanded but every where expressely forbidden are no good works but as Aug. Saith Splendida peccata a glaring false worship But it seemeth this your externall worship the fruit of your Devotion is all the good works you have to show that men thereby may See what Kind of light is in you which is not any true but a false light I proceed But how hath this ignis fatuus of yours carryed me so out of my way that I have over Skipt one Passage in the same Page a little before But yet coming in here it will the more fitly usher in the next which we shall note in the Same Page L. ibid. This I have observed further that no one thing hath made Conscientious men more wavering in their own minds or more apt and easie to be drawn aside from the Sincerity of Religion professed in the Church of England then the want of uniform and decent Order in too many Churches of the Kingdome P. A little before you commended unto us the Integrity of the Church in Doctrine and Manners and but now how right your hearts stand in the Service of God here you use a third word Sincerity of Religion and that professed in the Church of England By this time we are sufficiently acquainted with your Sincerity of Religion professed in the Church of England For we have your externall worship as the GREAT WITNESSE thereof of which your Sincerity so much is spoken as we have left a great hole in it And the nature of that your Sincerity of Religion professed in the Church of England duely considered can we marvaile if most mens minds in the Kingdome fall a wavering yea and if they be truely Conscientious men indeed not such as you meane to wit meere Formalists or Newters no marvaile if you find multitudes of them if multitudes of such be left to fall quite off from the Sincerity of your Religion professed in the Church of England But if any of your Conscientious men be drawn aside what 's the Cause Want of uniforme and decent Order in too many Churches in the Kingdome But doe you not see on the other side a whole Nation driven aside and that as they Say by your too much pressing upon them your uniforme and decent Order in all Churchs for the erecting of the Sincerity of Religion professed in the Church of England And yet you complain that you cannot set up your uniformity in too many Churches in England Surely ye might have done well first to have made all uniforme at home before you pressed too hard upon your Neighbour-Countrey And if too many Churches in England be not uniforme whose fault is that Not yours I dare say Have not you and your brother Prelates done pretty well to it in Suspending Silencing Excommunicating Casting out of their Ministry and Living so many Ministers Witnesse Norfolke Suffolke Essex Kent Surrey and other Diocesse and Shires Will not these Examples terrifie all other Churches in England But yet if nothing els will doe it the publishing of this your Book anew will certainly effect it or nothing And therfore you adde L. Ibid. To deale Clearly with your Majesty these thoughts are they and no other which have made me labour so much as I have done for Decencie and an Orderly Settlement of the externall worship of God in the Church Now no externall action in the world can be uniform without some Ceremonies And these in Religion the ancienter they be the better so they may fit Time and Place Too many overburthen the Service of God and too few leave it naked c. Ceremonies are the hedge that fence the Substance of Religion from all the indignities which Profanesse and Sacriledge too commonly put upon it Weaknesse it is not to see the Strength which Ceremonies things weake enough in themselves God knows adde even to Religion it selfe but a farre greater to see it and yet to cry them down All
one of these either expresse word of God or evident consequence ●ut of it And a little before Every wrangling Disputer may neither deny nor doubtfully dispute much lesse obstinately oppose the Determinations of the Church no not when they are Dogmata deposita Deposed Principles P. Now all these Passages weighed together do clearely and distinctly resolve themselves into these Conclusions 1. That the Church may decide and determine some things without any evidence or so much as a probable Testimony of holy Writ and herein you consent and jumpe fully with that notorious Papist and adversary of the once Church of England Stapleton whom the learned Dr. Whitakers publickly confuted in the Divinity Schooles in Cambridge as his Works can yet testifie And yet behold now the Church of England hath got a Champion in the Chaire of Canterbury who pleads for and applauds that in Stapleton which Dr. Whitakers and many other learned Divines in England formerly have refuted And for further Confirmation hereof you tax Bellarmine as of untruth where he confesses that nothing may be certaine by cert●inty of Faith unlesse it be contained immediately in the word of God or be deduced thence by evident consequence Whereupon you inferre that if nothing can be certaine then certainly no Determination of the Church it selfe wanting expresse word or evident Consequence out of it Thus you condemne Bellarmines true Saying if by the Word of God he understand the Scriptum alone and not his word unwritten and approve and preferre Stapletons false and hereticall sentence before it Secondly That things so decided and determined by the Church without either evident or so much as probable Testimony of holy writ yet are so de fide so firmely to be beleeved as every wrangling Disputer may neither deny nor doubtfully dispute much lesse obstinately oppose Consonant hereunto you ●ay at after pag. 224. The Determination of a Generall Councel ●●ring is to stand in force and to have externall obedience at least yeelded to it till evidence of Scripture or a Demonstration to the Contrary make the errour appeare and untill thereupon another Councel of equall Authority do reverse it And so also pag. 226. c. Where here I mention for clearer proofe of what you say here but not to anticipate or prevent our fuller Answere when we come to those places where we shall supply our brevity here L. p. 40. I hope A. C. will not tells us there 's any Tradition extant unwritten by which particular men may have assurance of their Severall Salvations P. But what think you of it Will you tell us there is no such thing written in the Scripture That true Beleevers may have assurance of their owne Salvation But if there be why doe you forbid Preachers to meddle with it considering the true and solid comfort which it bringeth to him that hath it As the 17 th Article confesseth might it be suffered to speake out and had you not put a gagge in the mouth of it L. p. 43. Mine is That the beliefe of Scripture to be the word of God and infallible is an equall or rather a preceding prime Principle of Faith w●th or rather to the whole body of the Creed P. How The Belief of Scripture to be Gods word and infallible no more but an equall or rather a preceding prime Principle of Faith with or rather to the whole body of the Creed This is yours you say your Saying And I beleeve it to be yours For it is as like to one of your Sayings as may be For here you attribute no more credit to the Scriptures then to the Creed both equall onely differing perhaps in point of some precedencie of time or So with an or rather equall or rather preceding the difference not great if any Thus doe you not equall a Church Tradition with the Divine Scripture For we have it by Tradition that the Apostles compiled the Creed and each his Severall Article And is this or any other Tradition of equall Credit with Scripture And is not the Scripture the Rule whereby the Articles of the Creed are to be interpreted which are no otherwise to be beleeved but as they are agreeable to the Scripture So as for the Purpose if you goe no further for the Sense of the Article of Christs Descent into hell then the very Letter of the Article you can make no Sense of it nor give any reason for it And how then can you give a reason of your Faith in this particular Except you do beleeve it because you do beleeve it and because the words are He Descended into Hell But of this more by and by L. p. 44. Some Traditions I deny not c. to be Apostolicall but yet not fundamentall in the Faith P. You might do well to point out unto us which be those your Apostolicall Traditions that we may distinguish them from those Traditions which Rome calls Apostolicall Or rather perhaps you admit of all those as Apostolicall indeed but yet not Fundamentall Surely if you can prove them to be truely Apostolicall namely that the Apostles delivered them immediately to the Church by word of mouth why are they not fundamentall in the faith Why are not all bound to beleeve them or give as much Credit to them as to the Articles of your Creed which you Say are fundamentall in the faith L. p. 45. The Church of England taketh the words He descended into hell as they are in the Creed and beleeves them without further Dispute and in that Sense which the ancient Primitive Fathers of the Church agreed in P. Here a Question may be moved 1. In generall Whether a man taking up a matter upon such trust as he gives equall beliefe unto it as to the Scriptures themselves doe not therein Sinne damnably As making that a fundamentall ground of his Faith which is not found to be in the Scripture Secondly in particular Whether a man resting in the very Letter of the Article He descended into Hell beleeving th●reupon as surely as he beleeves that God is in Heaven that Christs Soule did locally descend into Hell among the damned there having no regard at all to what the Scripture Saith of it whether the Scripture Say any such thing or no doe not hereby make way for his owne Descent into Hell Or thirdly Whteher you do as verily and firmly beleeve Christs Descent into Hell as you doe his Ascent into Heaven Seeing the Scriptures Speakes clearely and expresly of this but not so of that and whether you are a● much bound to beleeve his Descent into Hell because you find such words in the Creed as his Ascent into Heaven because you find it in the Scripture Now for Answere to all these together I conceive that to make any thing of the necessity of Faith to Salvation besides what is found in the Scripture is Sinne and in particular to beleeve that because it is Said in the Creed He Descended into Hell therefore Christ
requisite here a little to consider the Apostles words First Faith saith he is e'lpizomenon vpostasis the substance or subsistence or confidence at the Apostle useth the word elswhere of things hoped for And as some well expound it such a Faith as causeth the things hoped for so to subsist in our hearts not onely in a sure expectation but also in a degree of possession and fruition as if they were present with us And this object of things hoped for argues plainly that this Faith is not your Historicall Faith to beleeve simply that the Scripture is the word of God but the true lively and Saving Faith which hath not onely for its common object the Scripture but for its more proper and peculiar object Christ and the Promises of God in him contained in the Scriptures which are those things hoped for here Whereas your Historicall Faith as that of the Papists as both Vega and others affirme looks onely to the common object the Scriptures but not specially on the Promises therein contained This I say is the proper worke and object that Saving Faith doth chiefly exercise it selfe upon Faith is the substance of things hoped for Secondly it is pragmaton elegkos ou blepoménon the evidence or Demonstration of things not seen Which things not seen are also the proper object of Saving Faith wherof it is the evidence And those are eternall things in heaven as the Apostle sheweth The things which are not seen are eternall So Rom. 8.25 If we hope for that which we see not then doe we with patience abide for it But now your meere Historicall Faith which beleeves in generall that the Scripture is the word of God looks no farther then things that are seen But for the Faith which is the evidence of things not seen is the evedence of it therefore not so cleare because it is of things not seen Surely had you such an evidence of thos● things not seen as Faith is you would not goe on thus blindly in speaking of divine things which it appeares are farre above out of your sight Is Faith the evidence of things not seen and therefore not of so cleare evidence in regard of the Octject Nay certainly being an evidence of things not seen it argues the quick and piercing cleare eye of faith whereby it so clearely seeth things not seen as it is a cleare evidence of them As Chrysostome upon these words commenteth poía lèxis saith he What a speech or expression is this elegkos an evidence Whereupon he Saith That faith is a farre clearer and surer evidence of things not seen then the eye is of a visible object before it And you have here forgotten what you writ but in the next page before That beliefe is firmer then any knowledge can be Which it seemes you mean as the Papists doe who to elude certainty of faith doe say That Faith is certain ratione objecti in respect of the Object the Scripture but not ratione Subjecti of the Beleever himselfe Otherwise how doe you say here that Faiths evidence is not so cleare as being of things not seen But I conceive the reason to be because you beleeve no further then you see So as what things you doe not see with your bodily eye you have not any such cleare evidence of by your faith as if they were present before your Eyes Thus you may see could you see what all your Faith comes to But that faith whereof the Apostle there speakes and elswhere hath an eye more piercing then the eye of an Eagle For by this faith as by a most cleare Perspective we so see things afarre off eve● in the highest heavens as if they were present before us Thus the beleeving Saints in the Old Testament by the eye of this same Faith illustrated by so many examples in the same Chapter did See the promises afarre off and were perswaded of them ●nd imbraced them By this ●aith Moses forsook Aegypt not fearing the wrath of the King for he indured as seeing him that is invisible And by this Faith Abraham though afarre off saw Christs day and rejoyced As Stephen at his stoning saw Iesus Christ standing at the right hand of God This you will Say was with the eyes of his body miraculously 'T is true But I will Say again Stephen with his bodily eyes at that time saw not Christ more certainly nor more clearely then a true beleever by the eye of his faith sees him standing at the right hand of God as a mighty Saviour Advocate Judge Protector Avenger of his People when so used as Stephen was So as the faith of all true beleevers being one and the Same it fully agreeth with that Difinition of the Apostle Faith is the Substance of things hoped for the Evidence of things not seen therefore it hath an eye that sees those things not seen more clearely then I dare say your Lordships eye seeth when you look upon the Kings Countenance Smiling upon you For you think you see now clearely the object before you when indeed you see it not clearely but through a false glasse of your imagination as apprehending your chiefe happinesse to consist in that Object the Kings favour which may easily be overclowded Whereas God saith Cursed be the man that trusteth in man and maketh flesh his arme and whose heart departeth from the Lord. For though he may flourish for a time yet he shal be like the Heath in the Desert and shall not see when good cometh Againe this Faith of yours Say you is not of such cleare evidence in regard of the Subject that sees it is in enigmate or darke speaking We shewed but now how this Historicall Faith is different according to the Subject in which it is in the Reprobate or in the Elect beleever For in the true beleever being comprehended under the Saving Faith it is so much both the more cleare and infallible in beleeving the Scripture to be the word of God as wherein all along he finds Christ in whom all the Promises wherwith as so many Sweet Roses that Garden is set and strowed or as so many Starres shining in that Firmament are yea and Amen to the glory of God the Father And thus to every true beleever the Scripture is the sure word of God and more especially sure to him in all the Promises of it Thus Davids Faith tells him The Testimony of the Lord is sure Thy Testimonies are very sure All his Commandements are sure So Esay The sure mercies of David Thus the Apostles were sure We beleeve and are sure c. Now are we sure c. And Paul It is of Faith by Grace that the Promise might be sure to all the seed And Peter We have a most sure word of Prophesie Thus the whole word of God with the Promises therein are sure to a true beleever both as being of God and belonging
F 6 ly But since this Division say you nothing hath been done by you to discredit this Principle That the Scripture is the word of God No Nothing Not when you say The light which is in Scripture it selfe is not bright enough it cannot beare sufficient witnesse to it selfe Not when you say The Scripture is a light but as a Candle that yeelds no light till first it be lighted by Tradition of the present Church Not when you say That Scripture to be the word of God is not so demonstratively evident à priore that is of and by it selfe primarily as to inforce assent Not when you say Such a full light we doe neither say is nor require to be in Scripture as is in Prime Principles which carry a naturall light with them Is not this point blank against this Principle That Scripture is the word of God Not when you say God doth not require a full Demonstrative Knowledge in us that the Scripture is his word and therfore in his Providence hath kindled in it no light for that Not when you say That the Scripture cannot beare witnesse to it selfe nor one part of it to another And yet in all this and much more hath nothing been done by you to discredit this Principle That Scripture is the word of God Now let the Lord of the Scripture whose Word it is and all the Children of Truth be Judge in this matter against you G. 7 ly Yet you dare say more that you have given it all honour and ascribed unto it more sufficiencie as more then all even to the containing of all things necessary unto Salvation with satis superque enough and more then enough How enough and more then enough What A worke of Superarogation or superarrogancie rather Now fie for shame Will no bounds of Sober Speech contain your lawlesse spirit but that you must cast it in Gods dish That you had ascribed to his Word all honour and more sufficiencie and more then enough Had you yet turned Lyrinensis his word in the margent superque Abundantly it had been both more agreeable to reason and not lesse disagreeing with Grammer Certainly it had become you of all other to have qualified the construction of Satis superque better considering what palpable hand and harsh language you have dasht the Credit of Gods most holy Bible withall Extreames are not good And your Hypocrisie here is too grosly counterfeited Just as some Gentlewomans bad face for want of Art is daubed so much with laying on of Colours that it is ridiculous to every beholder And how say you in the truth of your heart were there any there that the Scripture containeth all things necessary to Salvation when it doth not containt tha assertion of yours That the Scripture is not known to be the word of God but by the Authority and Tradition of the present Church When yet this That the Scripture is the word of God is by your own expresse Confession one of the greatest Principles of beliefe H 8 ly For your going the same way with the Jesuites partly your whole Booke and partly all your practises doe Satis superque superabundantly witnesse Onely you say you cannot goe so farre in that way with them to make the present Tradition Alwaies an Infallible word of God unwritten No not Alwaies Infallible I hope Onely somtimes perhaps Infallible when you say the word of God And if your present Tradition be not alwaies an Infallible word of God unwritten I pray you is it at any time an unwritten word of God If it be then at such a time especially when its Infallibility is in Season is it not Infallible For Gods word is alwayes Infallible be it written or when he speaks it from heaven But when shall we se the time when you will prove your present Tradition to be a word of God unwritten or to have any Ground at all in written word of God the Scripture But if your present Church Tradition be not alwaies infallible but that somtimes at least it may deceive us certainly I conceive our safest course wil be alwayes to goe immediately and directly the shortest Cut to the Scripture it selfe which I am sure is alwaies Infallible and will never deceive us and not at any time to depend upon your present Tradition which is not alwaies an Infallible word of God unwritten But me thinks I heare you say That you make not the present Tradition An Infallible word of God unwritten No not absolutely not Alwaies We understand English But if you could prove This your present Tradition to be but somtimes an infallible word of God unwritten in the use at least you put it to it were no great Mastery to conclude it to be in that case Alwaies an Infallible word of God unwritten and so you should by this way of the Jesuites come full home to Rome But I hope you will more clearely and fully expresse your selfe in this grand point when to use your own words before It shall fit Time and Place In the meane time if this be not the genuine sense which I have picked but not stollen for the interpretation is Grammaticall and sensible out of your words then I confesse your meaning is more abstruse and mysticall then can be gathered from your manner of expression your words having a tang of that confusion of tongues at the building of that old Tower But the summe of it is Here is the grand difference between you and Rome She makes her Tradition alwayes a word of God unwritten unfallible you yours not Alwayes somtimes therfore and so it is blasphemy But at length pag. 127. the Lady calls you from the point of Church Tradition to heare what you will say of the Church of Rome whether you will Confesse it to be the Right Church And saith the Jesuite the Bishop granted that it was Now if the Lady were not dead as elswhere you tell us I should give her hearty thanks for being an occasion of delivering us out of this Purgatory-lake of your tedious irksome and endlesse Discourse of your present Tradition wherein otherwise it is to be feared you lye so long till you had been drowned in your own puddle or burnt up with your own hot zeale But let us heare your Answere to the Jesuites relation of what you granted L. p. 128. There is a great deale of difference between The Church and A Church and some between a True Church and a Right Church For the Church may import in our language The onely True Church and perhaps the root and ground of the Catholick And this I never did grant of the Roman Church nor never meane to doe But A Church can imply no more then that it is a member of the whole And this I never did nor never will deny if it fall not absolutely away from Christ. That it is a True Church I granted also but not a Right
But Thirdly you say These are a great scandall of Christianity No more Why sure they are the very badges and proper markes of the whore of Babylon and the Doctrines of Antichristianity For they are spirituall whoredome And as for true Christianity it so abhorres them and that whore that uses them that it is not easily scandalized with them as you are that would so faine be ●econci●ed to Rome For what communion hath the Temple of God with Idolls Or Christ with Beliall Or true Christianity with Antichristianity L. p ibid. Transubstantiation taken properly cannot stand with the ground of Christan Religion P. Why is there some other taking of Transustantiation then properly Is there a Transubstantiation improperly taken shew it us I pray you Is not Transubstantiation Transubstantiation To 〈◊〉 a C●anging of one substance into another As the changing of the substance of water into the substance of wine which Christ truly did miraculously As the changing of waters into blood which Moses did miraculous●y As the changing of the brea● into Christs body and of the wine into Christs blood which the Papists falsly teach and beleeve as if done miraculously when no Miracle at all doth appeare Or they say it is done by verture of pronouncing the words of Consecration Hoc est corpus meum This is my body whereas the Text plainly sheweth that these were not the words of Consecration as also some Schoolmen confesse for Christ had Consecrated before in his blessing or giving of thanks after which and after he had broken the bread giving it to his Disciples he uttered these words This is my body But what is your Transubstantiation improperly taken Indeed some of the Ancient Fathers speaking of the Sacramentall Elements after Consecration being then set apart from common use called it a Mutation saying that the Elements were changed into another Nature but withall they expresse their meaning to be not the changing of their substance but of their use from being common bread and wine to become Sacramentall or Sacred But for Transubstantiation they never so much as dreamed of any such kind of Metamorphosis or Metousíosis or monstrous Paradox as Transubstantiation But this your Distinction of properly and improperly may perhaps prove usefull for to make a Reconciliation with Rom● in this matter and so to remove this mégakásma so as both you and the Church of Rome may hold Transubstantiation onely with this difference or rather verball distinction Rome holding it properly and you improperly L. ibid. As for communion in one kind Christs Institution to cleare against that P. And is not Christs institution as cleare against Tr●nsubstantiation upon which you immediately adde this And first even naturall Reason or the blind light of Nature is against it For the Heathen man can tell you who is so madde or vaine as to beleeve or imagine that to be God which he eateth Although saith he we call Bread by the name of the Goddesse Ceres and Win● by the name of Bacchus c. Againe to beleeve Transubstantiation is against those very words of institution This is my body For these words are an usuall Sacramentall Phrase or manner of speech which the Scripture useth in all the Sacraments both of the old Testament and of the new As in all of them to call the outword visible signes by the name of the thing signified As Circumsition was called the Covenant Gen. 17.10 though but a signe of it vers 11. And a seale of it also Rom. 4.11 so the eating of the Paschall Lambe it was a memoriall or commemorative signe and sacrifice of the Passover and yet it is called the Passover So Baptisme succeeding Circumcision though it be a visible signe and Sacrament of the washing of Christs bloud to remission of sinnes And so as Circumcision a signe and seale of the Covenant yet it is called r●generation be●ng but a signe of it And so also the Lords supper the Elements the●ein bread and wine Consecrated being signes to remember and seales by Faith to apply Christs death the one is called his body the other his blood And thus Christs institution is as cleare against Transubstantiation as it is against communion in one kind Thirdly Transubstantiation is against the Article of our Faith of Christs incarnation of the Virgin and of his sitting at Gods right hand whom the heavens must receive till his coming againe And so against our Faith of his coming againe as before seeing Transubstantiation makes him Corporally present every day And as for communion in one kind though it be commonly so called yet both improperly and untruly For it is not communion so much as in one kind Transubstantiation being admitted as Papists beleeve it for they destroy the very substance of the Element of bread by their Transubstantiation and how then is it a communion in one kind They have left nothing of the bread but the bare Accidents And Accidents we know do not constituere speciem do not constitute any species or kind of things Nay according to the Rule of Philosophy the Papists have by taking away the substance of bread not left so much as the Accidents of Bread but in a meeer Phantasme or Apparition For Philosophy and Logicke teacheth that Accidentis Esse est messe The Beeing of an Accident i● its immediate In-beeing in its proper subject Now the substance of bread is the proper subject of the Accidents of bread which are no longer the Accidents of Bread then they inhere in the bread so as the Bread being destroyed the Accidents are destroyed And if as they say the substance of Bread is vanished in Transubstantiation then certainly the Accidents And lesse proper is it that accidents proper to bread should have their inherence in humane flesh as they say Christs flesh is under the accidents of bread as if it were coloured over with the accidents of bread which yet cannot subsist but in some body yea and in their naturall and proper body which is bread Againe wheras you say Transubstantiation was never heard of till the Councel of Lateran 't is true that ●s was never decreed to be beleeved and publi●kly received as a Doctrine of the Church of Rome till in the Councel of Lateran under Innocent 3 as before is touched But it was hatched before and was privately crope into the bosome of many mens beliefe and there fostered as a tender Chicke before it came to get spurres and so to be made a Cocke of the Game in that Councel So also Communion under one Kind as you call it secundum Apparentiam grew into use in sundry places through ●egligence of the Priest or otherwise before it came to be Decreed in the Councel of Constance to be of necessity universally received L. p. 277. For Adoration of Images the modern Church of Rome is too lik● to Paganisme in the Practise of it P. The Moderne say you Nay the Church of Rome
They are taught this one Maine Principle That they must be saved not by Faith onely but by their good Works whereby they must merit their Salvation Now this all Papists learned and unlerned professe This unlesse they cease to be Papist they live and dye in and so they are necessarily and certainly damned For to adde any thing to Faith in Iustification is damnation as before it shewed And saith the Prophet They that observe lying vanities forsake their own mercy But Thirdly you say They may be saved so they conforme to a Religious life Now what is the Religious life of a Papist and especially of a silly ignorant Papist Namely to goe to Shrief or Confession to the Priest his Ghostly Father as often as may be as the Fernall Glory published by your Chapleins licence teacheth or at the least once a yeare against Easter to keep his Lent-fast strictly so as upon paine of damnation or greivous penance not to eat an egge all that time and so observe all othor Fasting-dayes in the yeare together with all Holydayes to say over their Beads every day in repeating their Pater Noster Ave Mary Creed and ten Commandements ●f either they be so learned or devout to goe to their dayly Masse and Mattens where it is their safety to understand never a word nor to say Amen to the Priest but by the sound of his voyce which they understand no more then the chattering of a Magpy to call upon such a Saint his speciall Mediator and say a Pater Noster and Ave Mary before such an Image and especially of their Lady and a thousand such like observations wherein a Popish Religious life consisteth And so this is the Religious life of your ignorant silly Papist wherin living and dying he may be saved if he may beleeve your Doctrine But to this you adde An humble and peaceable obedience To What Or to whom As to the Priests Ghostly Discipline when he injoynes sore penance as whipping-cheare in Lent or the like Or if you meane peaceable obedience to the Civil Magistrate as in England that must be according to their Ghostly Fathers direction and limitation they must not take the Oath of Supremacy nor in some cases the Oath of Allegiance when it makes for the Catholick Cause And though to satisfie the Law and save his purse he come once a moneth to Church and heare your service yet Sermon he must not heare especially if the Preacher be Puritannicall for that might turn him quite from his Popery And thus such partly by their peaceable civill life and partly by their humble Popish Religious life so living and dying may be saved And therfore to such silly Ignorants we must not deny salvation Why so For first We have not so learned Christ say you Wee What wee Wee to wit you and your present Church of England And surely you had not need to deny salvation to that Church with which you and your Church is one and the same Church least otherwise you might leave your selves as little hope of salvation as others doe them But this is a piece of your learning of Christ it seems to beleeve that a silly ignorant Papist that knows not the right hand from the left that is drowned in Ignorance blindnesse superstition Idolatry Infidelity and as a drowned man knows it not may securely wrappe himselfe in the shrowd or mantle of his silly ignorance and so goe to heaven Thus have you learned Christ. But Wee Wee I say that renounce all communion with the Whore of Babylon and with all her Abominations have not so learned Christ as having heard him and been taught by him as the truth is in Iesus as to beleeve there is salvation to be hoped for of any but such as walke according to Christs rule and live and dye in his Faith And what 's Christs rule Even that which follows in the same place vers 22 To put off and renounce the former conversation of the Old Man which is corrupt according to the deceitfull lusts wa●king v. 18. in the vanity of our minds having the understanding darkened being alienated from the life of God through ignorance as the Gentiles because of the blindnesse of their heart who being past feeling have given themselves to all ●●s●viousnesse to worke all uncleannes with greedinesse Wherupon the Apostle addes But have not so learned Christ so as to thinke to be saved in a Heathenish life drowned in ignorance from which you cannot distinguish the life of an ignorant Papist except that it is infinitely more stupid and fuller of grosse ignorance and all abominations then the Heathen were and saving that Papists professe the name of Christians We have not I say so learned Christ. What is then the learning of Christ To put off the Old Man and that ye be saith the Apostle renewed in the spirit of your mind putting on the New man which after God is created in Righteousnesse and true Holinesse This is the learning of Christ. So as without this learning neither any silly ignorant Papist nor the most pregnant acute learned Arch-Prelate can be saved We must have both the Righteousnesse of justification by Faith imputed and of Sanctification of the spirit of Christ inherent and shining forth in a holy life and conversation It is not a Pope-holynesse in keeping of a Lent fast or worshiping of an Altar and such like counterfeit holines of mans devising This you learne not of Christ. For Christ saith In vaine they worship me teaching for Doctrines the Commadements of men or humane Traditions This holinesse saves not but shuts men out of the Kingdome of Heaven But secondly You call it stifnesse and churlishnesse in Protestants to deny all Papists salvation We shall by and by see your Charity to Papists which is so extreame great as we need not wonder at your malice against those some Protestants you speake it Is it stifnesse to avouch the truth And if they do bebaiousthai as the Apostle exhorteth Titus constantly affirme what not onely is truth but also necessary to be spoken as being a matter of such moment and consequence as concernes the savation of soules by denying salvation to whom it belongeth not and when men are seduced in a false perswasion therof call you this churlishnesse Certainly this churlishnesse in so denying is better then your charity in affirming a falshood Nay what will you say if this which you call churlishnesse be found to be true Charity when your Charity will be found to be deadly hatred against the soule of that silly ignorant Papist For true Charity ever consists with verity els it is no Charity but vanity Now those Protestants which deny salvation to all Papists living and dying in the Roman faith doe it upon sound and solid grounds even upon cleare evidence of Scripture For the Roman Faith is not the true Christian Faith as we have proved And without the true Christian Faith