Gal. 2. 21. and give the victory over it to the will of man in all cases How gracious a Papist keeping these principles can be let the Reader judge and how numerous their Party is it is easily known At the same time the Pope condemned a book called the Houres Printed at Paris and commended by the French Divines because efficacious grace was there mentioned and the second Command was translated thus Ye shal not make an Idol or graven Image to adore them When one of the Commissioners from the Gallican Churches did complain upon the sentence of the Pope against a book so generally approved in France Mr. Albizzi the Popes Secretary said that the translation was one with that of Geneva and what ever Schollars might conceive of it the People would readily mistake it and not fall down before the Images One of the Commissioners answered that this Doctrine would be also valid against the translation of Scripture for the second Command behoved to be thus translated he answered that the Pope was not obliedged to hear Parties and answere reasons and the Gospel weâ—e not the Gospel if the Pope did not approve it This is high-language yet the Court strain at Rome Yea the operation of grace is heresie if he call it so See more of this in the Journal of St. de Amour concerning the five Propositions who with other Commissioners from the Gallican Churches relate this Fifthteentâ—ly You lay too much stress on the work wrought as Satisfactory 15 Inst. Pennance Extream Unction the telling over of Prayers the outward receit of Sacraments Bodily Austerâ—ties c. And put these in stead of Regeneration so necessar for each Christian and of inward duties which have the promise chiefly terming all such phanatick whereas Scripture saith Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit he cannot see God Iohn 3 3. And except ye be conveâ—ted and become as little children ye cannoâ— enter into the kingdom of Heaven Matth 18 3. and bodily exercise profiteth little 1. Tim. 4. 8. Duties rightly done are well worth their own room but to turn us back under the Gospel to the Covenant of workes iâ— a fascination and making voide of the grace of GOD Gal. 2. 21. Gal. 3. 2 and this errour leadeth you to condemn Infants unbaptized for the want of that work wrought whereas the promise is to us and to our children Act. 2. 39. and we have all freely not by merit Reply You calumniat us here again Papist Reply saying that we put bodily austerities in the place of Regeneration wherein you contradict your self granting that we hold Baptismal Regeneration absolutly necessar so that a man cannot be sâ—ved without it according to the clear words of St. John 3. 5. How then can you say that we hold bodily austerities in stead of Regeneration How can Ministerâ— be so carnal or sensual as to speak against bodily austerities Which Christ coming into this world did choâ—se saith the devout St. Bernard concluding that either licentious men in a world are deceived who choose them not or else Christ Serm. de nativ But as for the work wrought it seemeth you understand it not when you adscribe it to the telling over of Prayers for it hath no place but in the Sacraments which of them selves work grace either in these that cannot work or put a stop as Infants or others And when you say the promise is made to us and to our children Acts 2. 39. Either you must acknowledge your self a Jew and to be of the seed of Abraham according to the flesh or else with the Apostle and Catholick Church In the same place say We are made the children of Abraham by Baptism and Regeration as verse 24. and 41. proves Duply That which I said ye grant viz. the receit of Baptism ex opere operato to Prote ∣ stants Duply Regenerat but with a restriction to Infants By which evasion it seemeth ye understand nor well your own teners for the Council of Trent Sess 7. Can. 7. 8. speaketh otherwise they anathematize them who deny that Sacramenta novae legis conferunt gratiam ex opere operato semper omnibus non aliquando aliquibus So they speak of all the Sacraments of the New Testament and not only of Baptism and if they limited it to Infants it could not be omnibus but aliquibus only And Bellarmin who understood Popery leaveth you alone here for lib. 1. cap. 12. de Sacram. Bapt. he saith Baptism ex opere operato confert gratiam qua vere formaliter justificatur homo Then he is not speaking of Children If it be so all Baptized are Regenerated immediatly even your Indians whom ye drive by dâ—oves to the font-stone and turning from Heathnism is true Conversion Yea all baptized are saved and none of them damned this is indeed an easy way to Heaven That place John 3. is not chiefly meaned of Baptism otherwise all unbaptized persons should be damned which is not true and they who say so are cruel to Infants And wherein I pray you do I contradict my self here Seeing your external Regeneration is not that Scripture one meaned John 3. and Matth. 18. and 2. Cor. 5. 17. If all such be new creatures we have none in the visible Church come to years but converts new creatures regenerated ones born again and can you say so without a blush I mean by the seed of Abraham the heirs of promise with the Apostle Gal. 3. 29. What you challenge in this I do not understand and I doubt if you understand your self for the blessing of Abraham belongeth to us Gentiles as well as to the Jews Bodily austerities for mortifying sensual corruption I did approve if they be put in their own place So you fight with your own shaddow here We are for fasting humble-walking and all the acts of Scripture-self-denyal we hold commanded duties for mortification such as fastings c. to be very useful for holding the body in subjection and for subduing sensualitie Secondly we deny not but the Lord will in fatherly wrath chasten his children here for their sins as he did Israel in the wilderness Moses David Iehoshaphat many moe according to that Amos 3. 2. Thirdly this chastisement whither voluntar or not is not satisfaction to divine justice nor proper penaltie of the law because the satisfaction of Iesus Christ is compleatly perfect but it could not be so if any satisfaction were laid on us see Dallaeus †Dallaeus de satisfactione who hath a learned Treatise concerning this truth Fourthly If we cannot satisfie we merit nothing that is good at the hands of GOD but must say with Bernard on Cant. Serm. 61. Misericordia tua merita nostra Domine thy mercy O Lord is our meritâ— Salvation deliverance Heaven happiness and all our well-fare is of the Lord. We get these gratis The Papists may be ashamed to tell the world of congruous merits before Conversion
undoubtedly to believe for it is written We have a more sure word of Prophecie to the which ye do well to take heed as to a light shining in a darke place Besides we believe the authoritie thereof to be above the authority of the Church It is a farr different thing for the hâ—ly Ghost to speake and the tongue â—f man for the tongue of man may through ignorance erre deceive and be deceived but the Word of GOD neither deceieveth nor is deceived nor can erre but is alwayes infallible and sure 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. We believe that the best and greatest GOD hath predestinated his Elect unto glory before the beginning of the world without any respect unto their workes and that there was no other impulsive cause to this election but only the good will and mercy of GOD. In like manner before the world was made he hath rejected whom he would of which act of reprobation if you consider the absolute dealing of GOD his will is the cause but if ye look upon GODS orderly proceeding his justice is the cause for GOD is marciful and â—ust 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. We believe that one GOD in Trinity the Father Son and holy Ghost to be the Creator of all things visible and invisible Invisible things we call the Angels visible things the Heavens and all things under them And because the Creatour is good by nature he hath created all things good and cannot do any evil and if there be any evil it proceedeth from the Devil and man for it ought to be a certain rule to us that GOD is not the authour of evil neither can any sin by any just reason be imputed to him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. We believe that all things are governed by GODS Providence which we ought rather to adore then search into sith it is beyond our capacitie neither can we truely understand the reason of it from the things themselves in which matter we suppose it better to embrace silence in humilitie then to speak many things which do not edisie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. We believe that the first man created by God fell in Paradise because neglecting the Commandment of GOD he yeelded to the deceitful counsel of the Serpent from thence sprung up Original sin to his posteritie so that no man is borne according to the flesh who doth not bear his burthen and feel the fruits of it in his life 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. We believe that the Son of God our Lord Iesus Christ hath made himself of no account that is hath assumed mans nature into his own Subsistence that he was conceived by the Holy Ghost that he was made man in the womb of Mary alwayes a Virgin was born and suffered death was buried and glorified by his resurrection that he brought salvation and glorie to all Believers whom we look for to come to judge both quick and dead 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. We believe that our Lord Iesus Christ sitteth aâ— the right hand of his Father and there maketh intercession for us executing alone the office of a true and lawful Priest and Mediatour and from thence he hath a care of his people and governeth his Church adorning and enriching her with many blessings 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. We believe that without Faith no man can be saved but that we call Faith which in Christ Iesus justifieth which the life and death of our Lord Iesus Christ procured the Gospel published and without which no man can please GOD. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. We believe that the Church which it called Catholick containeth all true believers in Christ which being departed are in their Countrey in Heaven or living on earth are yet traveling in the way the Head of which Church because a mortal man by no means can be Iesus Christ is the Head alone and he holdeth the sterue of the Government of the Church in his own hand but because on earth there be particular visible Churches and in order every one of them hath one chief which chief is not properly to be called a head of that particular Church but improperly because he is the principal member therof 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. We believe that the Members of the Catholick Church be the Saints chosen unto eternal life from the number fellowship of who Hypocrits are excluded though in particular visible Churches Tares may be found amongst the Wheat 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. We believe that the Church on earth in the way is sanctified and instructed by the Holy Ghost for he is the true Comforter whom Christ sendeth from the Father to teach the truth and to expel daâ—kness from the understanding of the Faithful For it is very certaine that the Church of GOD may erre â—â—king fâ—lshood for truth from which errour the light and doctrine of the holy Spirit alone fâ—eeth us not of mortal man although by Mediation of the labours of the Churches Ministers this may be done 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. We beleeve that a man is justifie by â—aiâ—h and not by workes but when we say by Faith we understand the correlative or object of Faith which is the righteousness of Christ which Faith apprehends and applyeth unto us for our salvation This may verily be and yet without any prejudice to good workes for Truth it self teacheth us that workes muâ—â— not be neglected that they be necessary means and testimonies of our Faith for confirmation of our calling but for workes to be sufficient for our salvation and to make a man so to appear before the Tribunal of Christ that of condignity or merit they conferre salvatioÌ„ humane frailty witnesseth to be false but the righteousness of Christ being applyed to the penitent doth onely justifie and save the Faithful 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. We believe that free-will iâ— dead in the unregenerate because they can do no good thing and whatsoever they do is sin but in the regenerate by the grace of the holy Spirit the will it excited and indeed worketh but not without the assistance of grace to effect that therefore which is good grace goeth before the will which will in the regenerated is wounded as he by the thieves that came from Ierusalem so that of himself without the help of grace he hath no power to do any thing 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. We believe that there be Evangelicall Sacraments in the Church which the Lord hath instituted in the Gospel and they be two we have no larger number of Sacraments because the Ordayner thereof delivered no more Further more we believe that they consist of the Word and the Element that they be seals of the promises of GOD and we doubt not but do conferre grace But that the Sacrament be intire and whole it is requisit that an earthly substance and an external action do concurre with the
who dare not ask God for the exceeding greatness of my sin O saints of God I beseech you with tears and weeping to fall down before his mercy seat for me wretch Sixthly ye deny the making of the sign of the Cross and Images but hear S. Dennis lib. 2. Eccl. hierarch cap. 2. 5. The sign of the Cross is so much honoured that it is often used both in Baptism and other Sacraments And in the third Age Tertul. de cor mil. cap. 3. In every thing we sign our forehead with the sign of the Cross of which practise tradition is the defender custome the conserver and faith the observer And againe the same Tertul. lib. 2. de pudic The Image of Christ bearing a Lamb on his shoulder were graven on chalices and used in Churches Seventhly ye deny Freewill which in the second Age Irenaeus lib. 4. cap. 72. affirmeth not only in workes but even in faith hath Almighty God reserved liberty of will to man saying be it done to thee according to thy faith And in the third Age S. Cyprian lib. 3. cap. 52. The freedom of believing or not believing is placed in the will Eâ—ghtlie ye denie merit of workes but in the second Age Justin Martyr Ap. 2. boldeth it saying We think that men who by workes have shewed themselves worthy of the will and counsel of God shall by their merits reign with him And in the third Age St. Cyprian sect de Eleemosyna If the day of your return shal find us unloaden swift and running in the way of good works our Lord will not fail to reward our merits Ninthlie Ye deny the possibility of keeping the Commandments against Tertul. in the second Age cited by the Centurists and Origen in the 1. hom 9. on Iob. the baptized saith he may fulfil the law in all things Judge now Sir whither it be not an open calumnie to say the controversies betwixt you and us were not then started in the first 300. years The Fathers having taught even then so clearlie our tenets which nevertheless ye are not ashamed to call new with Dr. Pierce in his Court sermon but see the two learned answers made to him which may evidentlie convince you of boldness ignorance and errour Answer You are wise by this your reply Prote ∣ stants Duply for you leave the marrow of my answer untouched which was this That our Church in Doctrinals worship c. is as old as Scripture That you pass with a jeer and say that it is the language of all Sectaries This calumny hath been cast of old upon pure doctrine Acts 24. and their worship called Haeresie verse 14 I wish that all Sects were such as we are scriptural in their way Ye are the greatest Schismaticks I know on earth departing from the Scriptures and mocking others who adhere to them The other assertion is That this is the voice of common people who claim descent from Adam and Eve Is not this true Are not all nations of men made of one blood Acts 17. 26. It is grace and vertue which maketh the difference Omnis sanguis concolor And iâ— we have as much relation to scripture Churches as multitudes have to Adam and Eve we are not spurious but of a right extract Ye probably must be a kind of men like the pre-Adamits and of another descent But one cheat is here remarkable you promise to shew how contrar our doctrine is to scripture and when you come to answer then you beginne with Dudithius and overleap the whole scripture Your own Rainerius an Inquisitor giveth this verdict concerning us that we are said to have been from the beginning and walked by the Scriptures Secondly You pass that concerning professours of our doctrine in all Ages and will not signifie one man who answereth Flaccius or refuteth Usher but only you averre with Dr. Vane to whom ye are much beholden in this that they were not in all things ours I know few discerning men who agree in all things If we hold one foundation which Jesus Christ hath laid that maketh unity and uniformity All Christian Churches except Romanists make the Scripture the sole rule of their faith and to this we accord Were the Eastern and Western Churches essentially different because of some discrepances about the time of Easter c. For Turkes and Tartars they are without Christ and you might more pertinently have spared the comparison of them with ancient churches and professours if your charity were as much in your breasts as in your books and your respect real to the Saints in light Thirdly That which I said I will mak good that all the positive fundamentals of our Religion were mantained in the Church the first 400. years This appeareth from the Creeds and Confessions of Faith then made yet extant Let any read the Apostolick Nicaene or Anathasius Creed the determinations of the Ephesian council written by Cyril of Alexandria the Confession of Faith made by the council of Chalcedon and there they will find exact conformity with the positives of our Religion Popery addeth to these their own inventions which we renounce and this maketh the difference To make this truth appear the more I shal name these foundations The doctrine of the Prophets and Apostles upon which our faith is builded We hold that there is one GOD three Persons that the world was made by GOD and man the tennant when the house was made appointed to bring in his rent That man was made according to the Image of GOD in holiness and righteousness That he fell from his first state and turned to the creature by transgression That sin entered this and death by sin That he sinned as a publick person and involved posteritie under a curse That GOD so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son who was very GOD made flesh in the womb of the blessed Virgin and dyed for our sins and after burial rose again for our righteousneâ—s So that it is the blood of Jesus Christ only that cleanseth us from all siâ— And eternal life is the gift of GOD through Jesus Christ our Lord and when he paid the price then he ascended to Heaven and the Heaven must contain him as man â—ill the day of the restitution of all things That he iâ— now aâ— the right hand of GOD advocating and inâ—erceeding for as many as the Father gave him and shal come again and render â—o every man according to his works When he ascended on high he led captivity captive and sent the Holy Ghost who proceedeth from the Father and the Son who createth saith in us by which we are justified Who enlighteneth convinceth comforteth supporteth directeth all the houshold of faith and teacheth all the children to worship GOD alone in spirit and in truth and to call on his Name through Jesus Christ the only Media tour betwixt GOD and man Our Lord sent his Apostles and set them in the Church commanding them to teach
unlearned as well as the unstable wrest the scripture to their own destruction then Scripture can neither be the determiner of faith nor the judge of controversies to them and so they must have another both to instruct the ignorant and settle the unstable as we must all have some infallible judge to know who wrest the Scripture who not otherwise we may well agree in the letter but we will never agree in the sense and meaning thereof But as much say you as containeth the way to salvation is plain so that he may runne who readeth it Sir doth it not belong to salvation that there be three persons in God one in Christ that Baptism is a Sacrament c. Now where find you this in Scripture either running or siting Or if Scripture be so plaine clear as ye make it why be there so many Comments on it among your own men and so different Why is there amongst Protestants 200. expositions upon these four words This is my Body As Cusaâ—us in his holy court observeth Answer first I am glade that the written Pro. An. 1 word of GOD pleaseth you so who have all this time spent words to throw all power out of its hand and hang it at the Popes foot But you say it refuteth what was said formerly This cannot be made good for still I said it was the rule of faith to right discerners and sometime you grant this as in the latter part of your fifth Reason whereby indeed you refute all you have said and yeelds the cause fully Now what contradiction can be here The scripture is the rule to all right discerners and as many as walk according to this rule peace shal be on them but men who wrest the word unlearned unstable soules fall into perdiâ—ion for abuse of the word and destroy themselves hence proceedeth many controversies Is it not a strange consequence to inferre thence that these unlearned unstable soules should have another rule and another judge In the 19. of Luke v. 27. it is said by our Lord that his enemies who would not have him to reign over them should be brought forth and slain before him will it therefore follow that he should not reign over them Or that they Jure should have another King The case is just alike here It is granted that many have their consciences seared 1. Tim. 4. 2. are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 2. Tim. 3. 8. self-condemned Tit. 3. 11. under stronge delusions 2. Thess 2. 11. Is the Scripture to blame for this You have many faults to that which you like not Hear Optatus Milevitanus adversus Paliner Donatistam Vos dicitis licet nos non licet inter licet vestrum non licet nostrum nutant animi populorum If you seek a judge saith he a Pagan cannot do it nor a Jew they are enemies Christians by their discerning faculty cannot they being impeded studio partium Then upon earth there can be no judge shal we go to Heaven for one Quorsum cum hic habemus iâ— Evangelio testamentum i. e. To what purpâ—se seeing we have the Testament here in the Gospel If there be a contention among brethren saith he quaritur Testamentum the Testament is sought So we must decide our controversies by the Old and New Testament etenim praesentia quae modo facitis futura conspexerat Christus i. e. For Christ did foresee these things as future which ye make to be now present and hath he foreseen it and will he not provide a remedie for it Secondly These unlearned unstable ones Pro. An. 2 who are to be destroyed will not hear understand nor obey his word then is it like that they will understand the voluminous decrees of the Pope May they not wrest his sentence and sense more easily then Scripture words Or dare any say that humane ordinanceâ— will sooner compesâ—e command or regulat them then the word of GOD Thirdly We do not deny Mâ—nisterial Pro. An 3 helps for instructing and seâ—ling the ignorant and unstable nor judicial sentences subaltern and subordinat â—o the law But that there is an infallible man 〈◊〉 to whose sentence I must implicitly submiâ—â—â— is â—â—â—culous to averie it and the broaching of that errour hath occasioned more controversies then were formerly in the Church so far is it from composing differences If ye were more in catechising the unlearned and leâ—s in regal commands the law of GOD would be both better understood and obeyed Fourthly Albeit some places be hard to Pro. An. 4 be understood by the unlearned 1. Pet. 3. 16. other places are not so difficult In the scripture an Elephant may swime and a Lamb may wade And the same particulars you again object are clearly holden forth in scripture as is formerly proved in the vindication of my answer to your 1. Qu. in answer to Rea. 2. Yea the way to salvation is fair and patent there and if we perish our destruction is of our selves seeing that book is not sealed to us Commentaries Church-canons Ecclesiastick sentences are helps and means for edification but scripture is the authentick instrument and all the authority is originally from it And different expositions according to the analogy of faith may be and will be so long as there be diversity of gifts But I ask why ye make use of Commentars Seeing ye resolve all into the sentence of the Pope And why do your Commentators differ so amongst themselves If this hinder not your Ecclesiastick supremacie why should it be brought to weaken scripture authority It is hard to find where you are for sometimes ye would have a judge to authorize scripture to you sometimes you would have only one for the sense of scripture then at last you are for one only to the unlearned and unstable such is your instability in this matter that I wish the word of God may determine you aright in the point Question fourth Were it not better to establish Pa. Qu. 4 a man or an assembly of men judge of Controveâ—sies seeing the Church is the pillar of truth 1. Tim 3. 15. aâ—d hath the promise of presence Matth. 28. 20. then th◠〈◊〉 Sect should be laying claim to the Scripture and yet taking sundry wayes Answer The promulgation of the law is Pro. An. not denyed to the pure Gospel Church truth is mantained and preserved there as the law was keeped in the Ark thus it is called the pillar of it But the Church of Rome is not such being a very strumpet and making the Kings of the earth drunk with the cup of her fornications Rev. 17. 2. thaâ— promise of presence is made to the universal Church but no particular Church such as Rome can claim the measure or duration of it who of these can say that they shal last to the end of the world Albeit Sects lay claim to Scripture yet their abuse cannot take away our lawful use of it To this a Papist replyeth That the question Pap. Reply is not
Rome is it We allow Ministerial helps for expounding Scripture but do not renounce the judgement of discretion in Christians And concerning interpretation of Scripture infallibility of Pope or Council and the priviledges of the universal Church enough is formerly mentioned And these your so often repeated cavils are aboundantly refuted and what you say you did in your Reply to my sixt Answer is refuted by me in my Duply thereto For this is Crambe recocta Lastly You cite some Fathers of the first 3. ages against our negatives and would hold is in hand that they mantained them as Articles of their Creed But ye cite spurious Authours as Origens Threni or Lament Cyprian de Coena St. Andrew St. Dennis c. some of which your own writters call in question see Bellurmin de Script Eccl. pag. 83. de Euchar. lib. 2. cap. 9. Iustâ—n Martyr †In his Apology to Antonius the Emperour is brought for transubstantiation which is a manifest untruth For the words of Iustin Martyr are these 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. i. e. That sanctified Food wherewith our blood and flesh by conversion is nourished iâ— that which we are taught to be the Body and Blood of Christ If it be food wherewith out blood and flesh is nourished then where iâ— your Transubstantiation There it is bread in substance and the Body of Christ in signification and Sacramental relation If you please by this you may be convinced of your errour ignorance and boldness It is as untrue that Cyprian said or meaned so except in a Sacramental sense for in his 63. epist he saith Invenimus Vinum fuisse quod Sanguâ—nem suum dixit i. e. We find that it was the winâ— which he called his blood and in his 76. epist he saith quando domâ—nus appellat panem corpus suum vinum sanguinem populum nostrum quem portabut indioat adunatum i. e. When our Lord calleth the bread his Body and the wine his Blood he signifyeth that we being many are one lump of bread As for the proof of the Mass from St. Andrew I can find no such book and amongst all the Ecclesiastick writters in the first 300. years there was no mention made of him If he making for your behove could be produced as an Author it is strange how Bellarmâ—n hath forgotten to name him So I cannot take this authour off your hand But this is sure Eusebius lib. 8. Dem. Evang. in fine calleth the Bread 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the memorial of his Body the Image of his Body Then it is no sacrifice nor corporally the Body And seeing it is really relatively and symbolically such we would not have it now abused by negligence Origen saith no more hom 13. on Exod. we say no less For Purgatory you cite Tertullian in the second Age and Cyprian in the third neither of which were for it For Tertull. lib. de Patien saith Christum laedimus cum evocatos quosdam ab eo quasi miserandâ—s non aequanimiter accipimus As if they who are called hence and be with Christ were in a pityful state having obtained their desire Phil. 1. 23. and Cyprian de immortalitate saith Ad refrigerium justi vocantur ad supplicium injusti câ—piuntur velocâ—uâ— tutelâ— sidentibus persidis poena i. e. The just aâ—e called to refreshing resâ— the wicked are taken to punishment safety cometh very swiftly to Believers and punishment to unbelievers And Cyprian saith lib. adversus Demetrianum Aevi temporalis fine completo ad aeternae vel mortis vel immortalitatis hospitia divdimur Et ibidem Quando illinâ— excessum fuerit nullus jam locus poenitentiae est nullus satisfactionis â—effectus ad mortalitatem sub ipsa morte transitur i. e. When men depart out of this world there is no place thereafter for repentance no effect of satiâ—faction at death men pass over to immortality It is true they grant Probatory afflictions and the siery tryal here Some of them also deny full fruition to the Elect till the day of judgement But for Purgatory till the sixth Age it was not known then Gregory the first mantained it Dial. lib. 4. cap. 39. Neither can that prison Matth. 5 be understood of Purgatory as shal be afterwards proved I shal close this point with Iustin Murtyr resp ad Orthod quest pag. 75. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. e. After the departure of the Soul out of the Body immediatly there is a separation of the just from the unjust for the souls of the righteous are brought to Paradise and the souls of the wicked are taken to hell Then you prove Prayer to the dead from Clemens epist 1. de Sancto Petro and Tertul. de cor mil. I shal not insist on that Apocryphal Epistle but for Tertullian he and others prayed for a joyful Resurrection to them And hence are some Panegyricks concerning them which were rather to profit themselves then the party deceased as Augustin telleth us in Enchir ad Laurentium they were Consolationes vivorum You offer also to make out by St. Dennis that they in primo primitiva Ecclesia prayed to Saints and Angels As for the first citation to you who professe to believe the Scriptures of GOD and do yet stumble weak ones with thornie questions concerning their authority it will not be unexpedient for me who cannot find such a writter in the second Centurie for you cannot mean Dionysius the Areopagit who lived in the 1. Centurie nor Dionysius Alexandrinus who lived in the 3. Centurie To enquire I say of you whither was there such a Saint And if that be made out whither did he writ any book at all And if so if this be the book which you call his I will not take the Popes word for it nor yours seeing both Hierom and Bellarmin leave him out of their history When these questions are answered I shal prepare an answer for his testimony But it is more strange that you cite Origen who writting against the Pagan Celsus in this point of prayer to Saints and Angels lib. 8. pag. 432. 433. saith expresly to whom we give the first fruits to him we send our prayers to the great high Priest Jesus the Son of GOD who is entered into Heaven This is like your testimonie from Dudithius if that be Origen you cite for Origens Threni or Liment to be spurious some judicious do averre as Erasmus so Barronius tom 2. ad annum 253. here is a retractation Your own Salmeron telleth us to more purpose the reason why in the primitive times there was no invocation of Saints and Angels Quia occasio daretur gentibus put andi sibi exhibitos multos Deos pro multitudine divorum disp 8. iâ— 1. Tom. 2. As for the sign of the Cross it is true Tertullian is for it in these places named and it was in use amongst Christians when they had to do with Pagans and some who are not of your communion make use of it
image-worship whither of the true or false Gods which is here forbiddeÌ„ For it is certain that the Golden-call was intended by them to represent the true GOD. Exod. 32. 5. To morrow is a feast to the Lord and 2. Chro. 33. 17. They sacrifized in high places yet to the Lord their God only The like may be said of the Calves at Dan and Bethel Ps 106. 20. And of Micahs Image For be confidently sayeth Now know I that the Lord will bless me Judges 17. because I have a Levit to be my Priest They used not Levits for the worship of false Gods Further the speech of Stephen seemeth to prove it strongly Acts 7. 40. 41. for speaking of Israels worshiping the Calf he saith The Lord for this gave them up to worship the host of Heaven Now when sin is punished by sin that sin which is the judicial punishment useth to be more gross then the antecedent sin which is the procuring cause but the worshiping the host of Heaven is not so gross as the worship of an Oxe therefore they did worship GOD at first by the representation of a Calf yet were Idolaters This answer then cannot satisfie the conscience or reason of any man And admit that the image of false Gods is forbidden in the second Command how dare Papists without warrand and contrar to the word make the Image of the true GOD which he hath expresly forbidden Deut. 4. 12. Seeing Omnis cultus saith Tertullian de Jejunio should be ex imperio divinâ— non ex arbitrio humano Lastly We are forbidden to worship the likeness of any thing in the Heaven above or in the Earth beneath Now the Lord GOD is in the Heaven above gloriously therefore we should not make his Image for to what can ye liken him saith he Isaiah 40. 18. Bellarmin de Imag. and Gregorius de Valentia distinguish the Minor another way and reject the two former answers as extream For first they say that they worship Images properly so they are againâ—t Durand a great Anti-Thomist who maketh them only memorials Secondly They say that they give them not worship equal to the Pattern so they renounce Thomas and all his adherents Valent. lib. 3. disp 6. saith it is not sicut DEO that they worship the Image of the Trinity Bellarmin saith further that it is not Aeque certum an Imagines Trinitatis sint in Templis collâ—candae reperendae Yet say they that veneration suitable to them is to be rendered Which is he ambiguoâ—s phrase of the Council of Trent like the Delphian oracle If this answer hold good then Thomas and all his Clients are guilty of Idolatrie for they give veneration to Images equal with the Pattern all the Thomists say sicut DEO so to the Image Secondly Cultus religiosus est accidens hominis if we speak Physice now gradual difference in these altereth not the kind of worship Therefore according to the rules of Logick the worship is one with the worship of Thomists or else they disclaim a maxime by making the one Idolatrie the other not Thirdly We are forbidden to bow down to them therefore the meanest degree of religious worship is forbidden in the second Command And they who break the least Command and teach men so shal be least in the Kingdom of Heaven Matth. 5. 19. Lastly the seduced people know nothing of this difference Yea Bellarmin thinketh it not fit that in concione â—oram populo it should be divulged and he hath reason to say so seeing they cannot conceive the groundless distinction betwixt 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for their Clergie men will not make it hold water Fourthly Some as Eckius in his Enchir answers nothing but this to the argument that it is the tradition of their Church and Command of their Pope which they judge themselves obliedged to obey If this answer be relevant then they were not faulty who with their traditions made the word of GOD of none effect Matth. 15. 6. And Papists are too like the Pharisees in this Secondly By that Logick the Turk may mantain his worship of Mahomet for his Church and Mufti authorize it Thirdly The Pope in his Conclave may bring in the Alcoran the next day for that may have authority from them contrar to the word of GOD. Arg. third If Image-worship be condemned by all pure antiquity then this worship is not only a breach of the second Command but contrar to the custom of all the Churches of Christ Upon which argument the Apostle layeth stress 1. Cor. 11. 16. But the first is true Ergo c. The Minor is proved thus Many of the Ancients as Clemens Alexandrinus Tertullian c. Were against the art of statâ—e making Epiph. in his ep to John 23. of Jerusalem abominateth the putting them up in Churches and saith it is contrar to scripture that any Image should be in the Church of Christ Now if they wer against the making of them against the hanging of them in Churches much more against teligious veneration given to them Secondly the council called Eliber which is as old if not older then the Council of Nice made a decree that no Image should be in the Church ne forte quod in parietibus pingatur colatur least that which is painted be worshipped and till the second Council of Nice which was in the 8. Centurie no such thing as image-worship was approved in the Christian Church Thirdly It is an ordinar objection made by Celsus and all Pagans against Christians as I said before from Lorinus Ye have Nulla Templa nulla simulachra nullas aras quod colitis celatis To this objection Origen and Arnobius answer yeelding the matter of fact and vindicating their way which they could not have done if Images had been in use amongst them Further when Adrian did build a Temple for himself the Pagans suspected that it was for the Christians because it was sine simulachris without Images whence it is clear that the Image worship cometh nearer Paganism then Primitive antiquity See Dâ—laeus de Imagin Arg. fourth That which notwithstanding of all distinctions draweth and driveth people to Idolatrie is abominable but by the concession and confession of some learned Papists the Romish worship doth involve people into Idolatrie therefore it is abominable The Major is proved by reason that when the people made an Idol of the brazen Serpent the statue was brocken and called Nehushtan although at first it was appointed by GOD. The Minor is thus proved by the testimonies of learned Romanists as Polyd Virgil. de invent lib. 6. cap. 13. Many are now saith he become so mad that they worship the Images of wood and stone as if theâ— had sense in 〈◊〉 and put more confidence in them then theâ— do in Jesus Christ or other Saints to whom they are dedicated Cassander consult de imag saith It is too manifest that the worship of Images hath so prevailed that
of commutative justice betwixt GOD and man by the dignity of their workes after conversion and their refusing to have Heaven gratis Andradius the interpreter of the Council of Trent Orthod explic lib. 6. saith The reward of the just is not freely given but Heaven is set to the sale for our workes Tâ—pperus saith in Explic. art Lovan tom 2. art 9. GOD forbid that the just should expect eternal life as the poor man doth his almes it is our conquest our triumph and the prize due to our labours Valentia tom 3. disp 7. telleth that the workes of the faithful are satisfactory for the punishment of sin Bellarmin bringeth forth a new evasion de just if lib. 5. cap. 10. saying that Christ merited that we should merit So that the merit of our workes is from his merits this is plaister to daub with For where do we read in Scripture that phrase He hath suffered for us that we should be holy in all manner of Conversation and serve him in righteousness and holiness but no where that we should merit eternal life the gift is wholly from him so it is written Rom. 6. 23. Secondly This is petitio principii for the question betwixt Papists and us is whither we are unprofitable servants when we have done all So speak we with Scripture they say we are meritorious men Thirdly Suarez saith Tom. 1. in Thomam disp 4. another thing that good workes are in themselves and of their own nature meritorious therefore not such because of Christ his merits Otherwise saith he we could not be said to merit We say this is the way to clipe the satisfaction of Christ Jesus the value of the price payed for us What good workes we do are mixed with imperfections and are too few alas if the Lord accept of them and reward these workes with temporal or spiritual blessings it is not for the merit of the work but of free grace and mercy and for the merits of Christ meerly So we may be freely rewarded see Matth. 5. 46. Luk. 6. 32. where the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are promiscuously taken We cannot make amends to GOD nor satisfie his justice but his promise is sure not according to our merits but his own mercy so we must inherit eternal life this is Aug. doctrine on Ps 88. and Chrysost on Col. 2. Your satisfactions and merits are contrar to Scripture pure antiquity dishonourable to Jesus Christ and prejudicial to souls Now you see this reflection might have been well spared for it is no reply at all to what I said Sixteenthly Ye foster loosness and prophainess § 16. Inst by telling tales about Purgatory the use of prayer and sacrifices for the dead But the Scripture saith Heb. 9. 27. after death cometh judgement which must be understood immediatly otherwise it might be said after birth cometh judgement and in the grave there is neither work nor invention neither is there any place appointed for people after their removal hence save Heaven or hell Reply The telling of men that after their Papist Reply sins are forgiven they must suffer for the temporal pain due to them is not a way to foster loosness but rather to terrifie all who believe from offending GOD in the least seeing all such must be chastised either by GOD punishing or man doing pennance and that voluntary either here or in Purgatory hereafter according to the Apostle 1. Cor. 3. 15. If any ones work burn he shal suffer loss but he shal be saved yet so as by fiâ—e which place Augustin citing on Ps 37. saith and because it is said he shal be saved that fire is contemned yet that fire shal be more grievous then whatever a man can suffer in this life Purge me O Lord and make me such a one as shal not need that mending fire c. Now doth St. Paul or Aug. here tell tales Or can that mending fire by which a man is saved be more grievous then what he can suffer here Or can it make a man loose to pray with Aug. thus But it may be he was doting here as when he said Mass for his Mothers soul as we read in his Confessions committing both sacriledge and Idolatrie as commonly Protestants say to please an old wâ—fe after her death You adde that Scripture saith after death cometh judgement and in the grave there be neither work nor invention What maketh this against Purgatory Do Catholicks deny that we are justified at the very moment of death before they go to Purgatory Or that they work in the grave But how is it true say you there is no place mentioned in Scripture save Heaven oâ— hell to which the godly and wicked do go Albeit all go to one of these places yet is there not a prison mentioned from which a man shal not go till he hath payed the uttermost farthing Matth. 5. 25. which the Fathers expounded to be Purgatory viz. Hierom on this chapter St. Cyp. ep 52. Tertull. lib. de anima and doth not St. Paul above cited speak of another fire then that of hell Duply You have Rhetorications in defence Prote ∣ stants Duply of Purgatory which I pass and touch reason or testimonie produced by you You mention two texts of Scripture the one is Matth. 5. 25. where we are commanded to agree with our adversarie quickly c. this place proveth no Purgatory prison For first It is allegorick and so cannot be argumentative on a controverted point All that is here intended is that brethren should dwel together in love and forgive other their trespasses against them as is clear from the context Secondly If it were meaned of Purgatory it would make the Lord their adversarie they behoved to be delivered up to the Devil for he is the Jaylor of the prison Now it is strange divinity to say that the Lord is an adversary and the Devil a Jaylor to the man whose sins are forgiven him Thirdly If this prison be Purgatory then there is commutative justice betwixt GOD and man for such here pay the uttermost farthing And who can say to the Lord forgive me have mercy upon me and yet be of this judgement that he can pay all his debt by that mending fire and not owe any thing to free gracious pardon Fourthly It maketh punishment to purge away punishment which is Repugnantia in adjecto For you grant that the filth and blot of sin is removed here Your own Jansenius interpreteth it not of Purgatory Concor in locum The other Scripture is 1. Cor. 3. We shal be saved yet so as by fire that is not meaned of purgatorie fire but of probatorie fire in this life not hereafter Let any man read the chapter and he will see this the purpose of the Holy Ghost to shew what was doctrinally or practically erroneous should be put to the firie tryall when judgment should begin at the house of God as the Apostle Peter
speaketh 1. Pet. 4. 17. your own Pererius interpreteth not this place 1. Cor. 3. of purgatorie You say Ancients interpret these Scriptures so namely Augustin Tertullian Hierom Cyprian I would first enquire at you how you can cite the Commentars of any privat men on Scripture Seeing you averre before confidently that the sensing of Scripture and interpretation thereof belongeth to the Church of Rome and to no privat persons Augustin Cyprian c. were not the Church of Rome but privat Doctours Yea they were never members of this Church as it is now constituted being great strangers to supream infallibility and universal Monarchy engrossed in the person of the Pope They lived in Africk the one at Hippo the other at Carthage and were Bishops there Tertullian was a Presbyter and forced to leave Rome for the aspersions cast upon him by some envyous Doctors there which was the first thing tempted him to Montanism as it is told in his life he was formerly free of it When you interpret Scripture you are bound to bring one of the Popes decretals or a Canon authorised by him for the meaning of a text otherwise you are inconsistent with your own opinion But that which now you bring from these ancients is as I conceive fully satisfied and explained in the eight Duply to whâ—ch I referre the Reader You bring back hither and thither with your impertinencies All you have to do here if you would keep rule is to answer Scripture arguments seeing these taken from antiquitie have been debated formerly in their own room Yet to tell Augustines mind about the sense of the 1. Cor. 3. it is not so as you cite it he thinketh the text hard and difficult but doth not build Purgatory on it he is in that at a stand what to say and will not define the interpretation but modestly thus Non ideo confirmo quoniam non refello Aug. de Civit. DEI. lib. 21. cap. 24. Tertullian is so far from it that he saith lib. de patientia Christum laedimus c. We wrong Jesus Christ if we shal say that these who have their sins forgiven are in a state to be pitied But in Purgatory if the suffering be so great they are to be pitied Cyprian de mortalitate is of the same mind all who are in Christ when they go hence reign with Christ Ejus est mortem timere qui ad Christum nolit ire Let him fear death who will not go to Christ You say these in Purgatoty are in Christ then saith Cyprian they go to Christ not to Purgatory Justin Martyr saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 immediatly after death the souls of the righteous go to Paradise and of the unrighteous to hell resp ad Orthod quast VVhen you would have them then holding Purgatory you bring them under contradiction and are bound to reconcile them with themselves for any such clashings you may thank your Index Expurgatorius The Fathers indeed speak of probatory mending fire here of loca refrigerii before the Resurrection of Fluvius igneus after it this is the opinion of some Hence ariseth your citations but for Purgatory they knew it not It is the Blood of Jesus Christ which taketh away the guilt and filth of sin Now that this erroneous opinion maketh men loose reason proveth it For men who believe that they may live loosely here and yet go to heaven are tempted to prophainness ipso facto whatever be pretended to the contrar especially when it is told them withall that some Soul-Masses for a little money may be had to free them quickly thence And our experience in this land maketh it out also because many loose livers hanker after Poperie and hate to be reformed You answere just nothing to the 9. Heb. for if judgement cometh immediatly after death where is Purgatorie then That judgement is not temporane but eternall it is one with Eccl. 11. 9. And I would gladly know if this Tenet can hold with that scripture Rev. 14. 13. They who die in the Lord rest from their labours And if so they are not punished henceforth This purgatory fire of your own kindling maketh a hot kitchin to the Pope but purgeth no soul at all For Purgatory was noâ— decreed to be de side till the Councill of Lateran under Innocent the 3. the Florentine under Eugentus the 4. and the Tridentine under Pius the 4. so it is not old Many of the Fathers supposed that the saints received not full reward till the resurrection Aug. though dubious about it else where yet in one place De verbis Apostoli serm 18. sayeth There be two places there is not a third we are ignorant of a third meaning Purgatorie yea we find in scripture that there is none such In the Greek Fathers there is no mention of it saith Roffensis And whereas it is objected that Augustin said Masse for his mother Monica He sayeth only that seeing she prayed so frequently for him he was bound to send his best wishes after her if they could avail But speaketh very doubtfully of the matter in his book de civit DEI. Beside the Ancients prayed for these whom they thought to be in Abrahams bosom for a joyful Resurrection and full fruition to them The prayers of the Romanists are for men in miserie prisons in a place next to hell So the one and other differ much But the matter is that your gold groweth here it is your livelyhood your Mexico this maketh you so contend for it Seventeenthly Ye commit murther and § 17 Inst. allow it contrar to the sixt Command witnes the Massacre at Paris commended by the popish Oratour Muretus whose book is Printed by authority Reply The testimonie of a privat Oratour doth not make the articles of our faith And Papists Reply if this fact was done by privat Animosities neither Religion nor reason can allow it Nor do any Catholicks approve it except they who think it was done by the Kings authority to punish rebellious subjects whom he could not otherwise crub Duply This Oration of Muretus wherein he commendeth the Massacre is licensed Prote ∣ stants Duply and Printed by authority so it is not the meer testimonie of a privat Oratour but publickly allowed And whereas you say that no Catholicks approve it except these who think it was done by the Kings authority I answer the fact was clearly murther a breach of the sixth Command and admit the French King who then was young had consented to it will that justifie the breach of a divine precept How can that consist with Acts 4. 19. I am bound actively to obey my Superiours in the Lord ad aras religion reason craves no more Your own Thuanus hath not this poor evasion for justiâ—ying this murther but calleth it a bloody barbarous fact to murther men living peaceably And that universal flux of blood which flowed so aboundantly from all the passages of that young King at his death proclaimeth more lowdly to the world
lamentable that ye resolve your faith into humane testimony yea into that which is a very lie the Popes infallibility Were it not safer to make Scripture your ground then to build upon this sandie foundation and so river your selves incurably into errour Reply You runne out upon the Popes titles till in the end you make him a Demi-God Papist Reply imputing this as that by way of calumny to us Whereas all the Apostles were equal in power and dignity say you Matth. 20. 26. Where brist only forbiddeth spiritual Superiours to exercise that power with pride and tyrrany as did the Princes of the Gentiles but with humility and meekness as himself did Yet he there expresseth a greater and a lesser a superiour and inferiour amongst them as he saith more clearly in Luke 22. 26. he that is amongst you greatest let him be as the lesser and he who is chief as he who would serve them You cite Cyprian saying the Apostles were equal in dignity but suppresing the following words that Christ disposed the order of unity beginning with Peter whom in his epist ad Julianum he calleth both head and root of his Church All that followeth is that Moses spoke unadvisedly the Propher Elisha was ignorant of some things the Prophet Nathan made a retractation and St. Peter controuled the Heavenly vision To shew the Prophets and Apostles were not infallible save in penning the Scripture and so that the Pope is not such This is but a vain rapsodie to colour your own unsetled belief and contradiction in doctrine but nothing against us For suppose they had erred in these things that concerned not their doctrine all that you can inferre by comparison is that the Pope may erre in the like But as in penning the word of GOD they were infallible were they not also in preaching of it Or is not the high Bishop in all Councils as in the representative Church infallible in subscribing approving and confirming her decrees If the same decrees of the Council be infallible So that when you deny the Pope as head with the Bishops in general Councils as chief men to be infallible you deny the infallibility of the Church which I have sufficiently shewed reflecting on your sixth Answer Duply You labour to prove imparity amongst Prote ∣ stants Duply the Apostles from Luke 22. 26. and would have us to believe that the Papal Monarchy is there which is like the consequence of Mr. Vaux in his Catechism proving Image worship from the second Command For it is clear from verse 30. that albeit Kingly government was in the state yet it should not be so in the Church And that tyrranie is not the only thing forbidden here appeareth from this that somewhat is interdicted to Church-men which is granted to others but tyrrany is licensed to none Compare Matth. 20. 25. with Luke 22. 25. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the one place is expressed by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the other Then it is not only inhibited here Beside the 20. Matth. which you call unclear is most clear he that will be greatest seeking to exalt himself shal be least for he shal be abased And be who is called greatest in Luke 22. is opposed to the youngest the word is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the verse So by this opposition the greatest is the eldest or the greatest in gifts who should be humble self-denyed Ministers as if they were not so priviledged See 1. Peter 5. 3. To the place of Cyprian cited ye answer nothing Only you alleage that I suppress what followeth in stead of the citation you take your self to another place ad Julianum where he caâ—leth Peter first in order and this we do not deny But what will that make for his visible Monarchy For sure I am dic Ecclesiae Matth. 18. will resure that to the worldâ— end This is confirmed by Cyprians own practise for saith he Cyprian epist. 6. ad Clerum de cura Paup Ab initio Episcopatus mei nihil statui agere sine consensis cleri plebis See Cyprian epist 52. al Antonium and there you will perceive that your Pope is not like Cornelius of whom he speaketh for he was chosen Clericorum omnium testimonio plebis qui adfuit suffragio The faithful Martyr was much for peace unity and order and being infested with the Novatians he saith inde sunt nata schismata quod sacerdoti DEI non obtemperatur and telleth that by way of regrate But when he writteth to Cornelius he calleth him frater and no more Where then was your Popedom But ye equal your Pope to the Prophets and Apostles who penned the Scripture which is an odious comparison not worthy of an answer But forgetting your self you say the Pope in the Council then it is not the Pope alone of whose Monarchy we are here speaking and ridiculously you subjoyn if the Council be infallible what language is this The Pope is infallible in subscribing the decree of a counsel if the Council be infallible I say neither of them is infallible so your faith is resolved into a lie You would seem to hang the Popes infallibilitie on the sentence of a council if it be so the Pope sealing their decrees is infallible accidentally and relatively not in himself Others hang the infallibility of the Council on the Pope so a fallible council may consequently be infallible and if he ratifie the sentence of a Session it is all one with an Oecumenick-council All these crotcheâ—s are the pillars of your faith which are worm-eaten proppes to which I have spoken formerly in answer to your mentioned reflection 20. Ye make Christ as many Bodies aâ— their be administrations of the Supper § 20 Inst. by that your Transubstantiation Whereas Scripture giveth him but one natural Body which the Heaven must contain till the restitution of all things Act. 3. 21. And we believe in our Creed that he ascended to Heaven from thence he will come to judge quick and dead Ye break not the Bread contrar to the Scripture 1. Cor. 10. 16. Yea ye deny that Bread is there after the consecration contrar both to sense and reason And whereas Christ entered within the Vail not that he should offer himself often An unbloody sacrifice expiatory of sin under the Gospel is contrar to Scripture Heb. 9. 22. Heb. 9. 25. And by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified Heb. 10. 14. Ye make as many bodily offerings of Jesus Christ both for dead and living as there be Masses Reply You have many false accusations Papists Reply as formerly but no witness or warrand It is to be altogether ignorant of our terms to say that we give Jesus Christ as many Bodies as there be administrations of the Sacrament of the Supper For as we teach one and the same Body is given in every one of our administrations So we believe that he ascended to Heaven that the Heaven containeth
him and from thence he shal come to judge the quick and the dead But we believe also that he is really present in the Sacrament in as many places as it is given in Which you nor any man else cannot shew to imply contradiction and yet ye delude the people as if there were an impossibilitie in this When you say we break not the bread it seemeth you know not how either the bread is broken or given If we for greater decencie prepare the bread in a just greatness for one man before it be given so did ye of old cutting it in pieces albeit now ye break and bite about What you say in end of his once offering himself in a bloody way on the Cross it is true but if you understand it in an unbloodie manner on the Altar it is false Otherwise Christ should not be a Priest for ever after the order of Melchisedeck Psalm 110. Sir for all these passages of Scripture which you have cited in thiâ— your eight Answer which you see make nothing either against us or for you look to the Touch-stone of the reformed Gospel and you will see the Scripture altogether ours Duply You pass over all the scriptures Prote ∣ stants Duply which I have cited against Christs corporall presence or bodily offering with a strong denyall calling it a calumnie Sir is this right reasoning think you Sure I am if whole Christ be corporally present in every sacrament then when it is administred at Rome Millan c. there be as many bodies there as sacraments And by this tenet doe not the words of consecration make Christ on the altar as wel as by the holy Ghost he was coÌ„ceived in the womb of the Virgin And doth nor his corporall presence take away his ascension sitting at the right hand of God and his return because he is bodily already here He is a Priest for ever by the infinit vertue of his once offering which needeth not be repeated as the Apostle reasoneth well seeing it is not imperfect but only applyed by faith and this is all our salvation As for the distinction of a bloody and unbloody offering it is a device like the rest of your humane inventions Shew me scripture for iâ— if you can This you are bound to do at the least seeing now we are on scripture arguments and I brought scripture to the contrar You call it real presence only I am for real presence spiritualities are realities Your tenet if you understand it is corporal presence See Bell. de Ench. lib. 1. c. 2. 5. the body of Christ is in the sacrament with the whole magnitude thereof and that same body which is in heaven is on the altar either then he must have many bodies or els one body having magnitude and dimensions must be in many places at once in heaven and earth both which is impossible seeing it implyeth contradiction Theodoret. dial 2. against the Eutichian heresie telleth us that the sacramentall signes change nor their nature but remaine in their own substance and shape It is said Iohn 6. 56. He who eateth my flesh shall live by me And ye interpret this place of sacramentall eating ergo all who take the sacrament shall live according to your glosse Although Christ had a spiritual body after his resurrection yet he had a true body because he said to his disciples feel and see saith Aug. ad Dardanum ep 57. Now then he hath true dimensions and when he appeared to the Apostle Paul going to Damascus Aquinas thinketh that for the time he left heaven Summa q. 57. And when he came in amongst the Disciples the doors being shut Theodoret saith that they made passage for him as their Creator And the ancient Hierom speaketh with the scripture that the Angel removed the stone from the grave Although his risen body be glorified yet it is a real body and they who are for transubstantiation make it phantastick without any warrand from the word For Bellarmin acknowledgeth in the forecited place that this tenet of corporall presence cannot be clearly proven from scripture and lib. 3. de Euch. cap. 19. Tollitur verborum Domini obscuritas per patrum consensum And Andradius de caena Domini Licet transubstantiatio ex scriptura probari nequâ—t tamen furor est non credere ecclesiae hac inâ—e And Scotus lib. 4 dist 11. uoÌ„ extat ullus locus scripturae cogens nos admitte e transubstantiationem sine ecclesiae declaratione And addeth that ante Lateran concilium non fuit dâ—gma fidei Further this taketh away the sutableness betwixt the sign and thing signified If transubstantiation be the bread and wine nourish not the body How can accidents nowrish the body How can they be without a subject How Capernaitan like can reprobats ear the body of Christ You referre me to the Touchstone I wish rather you had touched pertinently scripture or reason in your answers then that you should shift satisfaction to the Reader with a reference to a book which possibly he cannot find I have seen that alreadie and an answere toâ—r printed twelve years ago by Dr. Guild who is now at his rest and his answer is yet unanswered if you have time it may be worth the while to peruse it for your conviction Now I beseech you to lay aside interest prejudice passion and weigh again these twenty scripture-arguments it may please the Lord to discover how Antiscriptural your way is who knowes what the Lord may do by weak instruments when his word and truth is on their side Question ninth But seeing we mantaine Papists quest 9 the Apostles Creed why did ye separat from us Answer first The Apostles creed commonly Prote ∣ stants Ans 1 so called is a notable confession to which we owe all respect and do make constant use of it Yet your own Lessius de vera fide in his appendix page 17. sayeth that symbolum Apostolicum is not sufficient test for knowing a pure Church Ye know Socinians will say it who are scarce Christians It mentioneth nothing to be believed concerning the fall of man the worke of conversion the two sacraments which are sealing Ordinances So it is the whole scripture which tryeth best Christians and Churches We did separate because of Idolatrous superstitious worship by setting up Imagerie which the Lord hateth Deut. 16. 22. Secondly We separat only from these Ans 2. errours and cleave to the Scriptures and primitive pure antiquity Thirdly We were persecuted fugati fuimus Ans 3. non fugâ—mus what fire faggot bell book and candle could do that we endured before we break off Fourthly when the light of the Gospel Ans 4. broke up we had a clear call for separation Rev. 18. 4. Reply In your ninth Answer you say you did cleave to Scripture and pure antiquitie Papists Reply and only left our errours You had said better that you had left Scripture and pure antiquitie by so doing
with naked persecuted truth in our Church as the Marques of Galeacia Mr. Smeton c. yea sundry have gone to Rome been converted by taking a distaste at their worship and way Fourthly Our run awayes runagads have to mourn before the Lord for their Apostacie seeing they cannot deny that the Ordinances in our Church have been by the Lords blessing instrumental to beget children to God This they must graunt unless they will say that all the reformed Church is unconverted which they have no confidence to averre Now how gross is it to spit in the face of her who did bear and foster them which I wish the Lord may lay to the consciences of such revolters But not to insist further I desire you in the fear of God to pause and consider well whether you are going to heaven or hell and by what rule you walk If the will of man or the revealed will of God have the power of your consciences or whether it be safer to take the scriptures way in which the Prophets and Apostles walked to heaven or the way of your own traditions and vaine inventions He who walketh according to the scripture rule peace and mercy shall be upon him and upon the Israell of God Reply In your last answer you say our Papists Reply pelf and policie is greater then yours both which I grant but glories in neither Yet if Ministers augmentations hold on they will shortly equal our pelf but not our Christian policit in employing it so well our glorious and goodly edifices of Churches Hospitals Monasteries dispersing and distributing their rents to pious uses But the thrusting down of Churches Hospitals Monasteries dispersing and dissipating their rents testifie your want of policy blind avarice mad passion Secondly You say we give indulgencies for looseness as if in Catholick times there had been greater looseness then since the Reformation Whereas the keeping of Lent and Fasting dayes were abolished Pennance and satisfaction for sin taken away Celibacie in Church men thought a crime Laicks allowed after divorcement to marry all good works thought impossible the Commandments thought impossible to be keeped and that men sin of necessity in their best actions which as it excuseth all wickedness and sin so it giveth way to all looseness and prophainness Thirdly You say many quit Rome in the integrity of their heart such as the Marquess of Galeacia and closed on their peril with naked truth in your Church To which I answer that all Hereticks and Schismaticks have quit Rome not in the integritie of their heart but in the blindness of their mind and that with their own peril eternal damnation closing with a very naked faith and Religion not well cloathed with the least colour of truth but not with naked faith or belief which Catholicks confidently and constantly assert what ever you say to the contrar And it is no where else to be found for they know there is but one faith and one GOD and one true Church Consequentlie united in the same faith in all which points as she was established by Christ and his Apostles hath continued since their time visible in her Pastours and People in all Ages holy and incorrupted in her Doctrine religious in her Sacraments and ceremonies powerful and glorious in her wonders and miracles conversion of Infidels in the which the holy Fathers have lived and all true Martyrs have died Which only all new upstarts and Sects do persecute and oppose as Protestants at this day under the pretence of Reformation and upon the same ground of wresting Scripture against the common consent of the Church and Fathers with them For as all divisions in Christianity have been from the Roman Catholick Church so all have turned both their armes and pennes chiefly against her but in vain she is builded on a rock against which the gates of hell shal not prevail against her And so who return from you to her are neither run-awayes nor run-agads as you call them but like the forlorn child or lost sheep return'd Whose example undoubtedly many more would follow if they would consider Faith without unity amongst Protestants a Church without a Head a Body without united Members a Law without a Judge a Temple without an Altar Religion without Sacrifice Divine service without Religious ceremonies Sacraments which do not sanctifie Doctrine without infallibility Belief without a ground Preachers without a call Commandments impossible to be keeped Exhortation to what is not in our power Reprobation without workes Reward without Merits Sin punished where there is no Free-will Scripture received or rejected upon the catalogue of the Jewes GODS word patched up by men Reformation without authority New-lights against old received veâ—iâ—ins the Privat-spirit against the whole Church single mens opinions against the unanimous consent of the Fathers in a word wavering Pastours unsetled Government unstable Faith In the post-script there be a parallel patched about our Reformations which being composed of the gall of bitterness without verity or reason deserveth no answer but that which Hezekiah commanded Is 36. 21. Duply You graunt that ye are rich and politick this is true there is much prophain Prote ∣ stants Duply 1 policie where Jesuited equivocation is mantained But tell me if this be like the Godly sinceritie and Gospell simplicitie which was the old Apostolick way and ground of their rejoicing 2. Cor. 1. 12. If ye exceed us in sumptuous buildings which politickly you mistake for the policie mentioned by me though your pelf be greater then ours we want not Hospitalls Bridges Temples according to our abilitie But what is that to the doctrine which is according to Godliness The Turks exceed you as farre that way as ye doe us And the Temple of Diana at Ephesus exceeded you and them also Secondly You deny that Poperie fostereth prophanness but it is too apparent and Duply 2. how can it be otherwise If indulgencies bought and sold like an horse in a market tend not ex natura operis in it self to make men loose and prophane let any sober man judge For thus may they reason shall I quite my lusts for a little money I know what will do the bussines and put me in favour with God Why should I pluck out my right eye and cut off my right hand when a little time in puâ—gatorie will do the turne and a soulemasse which I can have for the Legacie of a summe of money will free me thence But we with the scripture forbid men to deceive themselves for they who do such things shall not it herit the kingdom of heaven So with us nothing less will satisfie then Gospell repentance and the least ground of hope is not granted to those hereafter who turne not away hore from their iniquities How can this be denyed seeing your latest Casuists such as Escobar Busenbaius and Diana the Sicilian have purposly devised latitudes for rendring prophane men secure about Duells Sodomy and other acts of