find the birds of the Heavens Jer. 4. 22. And the fowls of the Heavens Jer. 9 10. And often fowls of Heaven as Job 35. 11. Jer. 7. 33. They adde the body is one and hath many Members 1 Cor. 12. 12. Answer that 's said both of a personall and mysticall body or society in different senses true also that the body of Christ either Personall or mysticall is not carnall but spirituall nor was it carnall when he shewed it to have flesh and bones carneum and carnale differ a heart of flesh and a carnall heart differ for when God promises a heart of flesh he means not a carnall heart so that these are sorry mistakes not solid arguments against Christs having his personall body glorified in the Heavens They say W. and F. They who are carnall as we be they say and we shall bear their reproaches could not discern that body they grant him to have though the outward bodies of believers they might discern and yet this body of Christ is discerned by the believers who are led by the Spirit of God and is in heaven above the clouds which they that are gazing abroad and looking carnally to see Christ they discern not the Lords body for they see not through the clouds into the heavens so Christ is taken out of their sight Rep. Now here the reader may take notice both that the body they say is in Heaven above the clouds glorified is not a personall body such as Christ shewed his Disciples after his Resurrection for they said p. 7. His body is the Church and the Scriptures saith not that Christ hath two bodies ' and also what Heavens they say Christs body is in viz. above the clouds in mens imaginations but however they cast mists and clouds in their expressions blessed be God we are able to discern their meaning that they mean nothing less by Heaven then the Heavens without men and such as Christ being taken into he was thereby parted from his Disciples that beheld him as Luke 24. 51. But Stephen they say that was full of the Holy Ghost saw the Heavens opened and the Son of man standing on the right hand of his Father and John in the Spirit saw into Heaven c. Rep. Yea verily Stephen saw into that Heaven and saw that person that they believe not for want of the Holy Ghost the Spirit of faith what Son of man did Stephen see in Heaven Nothing but the Church as filled with Word and Spirit glorified in a glorious Heavenly condition is the Church of God the Son of man or is the seed in them the Lord Jesus into whose hands he commended his Spirit And did the Spirit of Stephen then when separated from his body go into the Church of God the rest of the surviving believers or into some seed within himself and them let them speak out and unriddle their dark parables and open their cloudy conceits that men may see into their Heaven where they think Christ was seen by Stephen and So that we did not ignorantly charge them with their meaning therein but they would seem to give an Answer to our Question here which they could not think on at the dispute viz. That Christs body is not distinct from the Spirits of all men as it is distinct from carnal bodies Answer They would have stopt sure at the Spirits of all men but that they love to be in the clouds that their meaning may be taken out of the simples sight They adde that as he is distinct from carnall bodies to cover over a lie with the face of truth and blind men with the shew of an Answer when as in truth it 's none for our Question was not whether Christs body be distinct from the Spirits of all men in the same manner as from carnall bodies but whether the body they speak of rather be distinct from both of them be the manner what it will To their additionall falshood as we imagine as if we imagined it distinct from them both after the same manner we say it 's as truely distinct from the one as from the other but not after the same sort it differs from the carnall bodies of men in carnality and grosness and corruptibility c. It differs from the Spirits of men in substance it 's a body and they are Spirits yet it is distinct from both of them because neither are they it nor it they but let us view their reason for the different distinction between them They say The Sperits of just men c. rejoyce in him Rep. Who do they rejoyce in In his body or not for we are speaking of the distinctness of his body from their Spirits if they and their Spirits be his body how rejoyce they in his body Do they rejoyce in themselves or is there another body for them to rejoyce in besides themselves that rejoyce all of them in Union They say The true Church in Christ which discerns his body in his fulness is but one compleat body in the fulness of God Rep. Here they are in the clouds indeed but clouds of darkness his light is not spread upon them for 1. What difference is there between the true Church that discerns and his body discerned by it if as they said before his body is his Church and we read not of two bodies of Christ If none then his Church discerns its self and rejoyces in it self and the Church that discerns it self is one compleat body in the fulness of God before it was the fulness of God now it is in the fulness of God but the Scripture saies neither of it if the Church which is his body see or discern another body of Christ besides itself then they must say too there are two bodies of Christ one that discerneth and another that is discerned by it which they before denied and reasoned against what confusion are they herein By which we are so far from knowing that they own what the Scriptures do declare concerning Christ and his body as they say of themselves that we hereby know them to be they that do not own it and we will discern notwithstanding their palliating over the business with subtile expressions as That the same that descended into the lower parts of the earth is he that ascended far above all Heavens that he might fill all things the same Christ that suffered in the body at Jerusalem who appeared in divers forms after the Resurrection in the transfiguration before the same arose again and was taken in his ascending out of the sight of them that gazed after him and is glorified in the same glory which he had with the Father before the world was yet we see your deceit that in all this you yet deny that body that he suffered in to be now in glory that personal body that had flesh and bones in it and therefore that you believe not what was said to those you reproach for gazing after him
no more is sufficient to discover their horrible corruption and reprobacy of mind in the things of Christ but more of the like corruption they shew about the Heavens and Christs coming from thence in what follows for to that in Philip. 3. 20 21. Where it is said our conversation is in heaven from whence also we look for the Saviour the Lord Jesus they say W. and F. They say so their conversation was in Heaven and there they looked for the Saviour Reply See here one perversion the Apostle sayes they looked for a Saviour from thence to come namely from Heaven and these say where we look for a Saviour no doubt but had we said so as they say of the Apostles they would have reproached us and said see these men have their Saviour to look for yet as in a letter to us to our saying that the Saints seek their pardon and healing in Christ they retort that we accuse them of having their pardon to seek so wicked are they But of the Apostles looking for Christ from Heaven they take no notice It s no part of their Faith or Expectation it seems they adde W. and F. They did not say their conversation was at a distance far off above the Clouds where we they say look for a Saviour like our selves but that he hath no blood in his body as we Imagine Answ They said their conversation was in Heaven and Heaven is above the Clouds and Gods Glory is in and above the Heavens and in that Glory Christ is and where Christ is there was their conversation as they Exhort also to set our affections upon things above where Christ is also at the right hand of God he sayes not upon things within your selves but upon things above Col. 3. 2 3. But ye may see these men deny the God above and say in effect with the false Prophets Jer. 23. 21. God is a God at hand but not a God a far off But as they said not their conversation was above the Clouds in those very words though they said it in effect So neither said they their conversation was in themselves and thence they lookt for a Saviour their reproach of us that we look for a Saviour like our selves but that he hath no blood in his body as we imagine whom they say they desire not the knowledge of and that our faith which is not grounded in Christs appearing in us is to be turned up by the roots falls heavy upon themselves for all people may see their wickednesse therein for 1. They bely us in saying we look for a Saviour like our selves for we do not judge him like our selves but hope that we who are very unlike unto Him being in vile bodies shall be like him at his appearance When he shall change our vile body that it might be fashioned into the likenesse of his Glorious Body which Glorious Body we think not like ours for then need not ours to be changed that they may be fashioned into the likenesse of his if they were in its likenesse already 2. That his Body hath no blood in it we say not but leave it as a secret what is the form and manner and glory of his Glorious and Glorified Body we say that that body in which Christ shewed Flesh and Bones after the Resurrection and whose blood was shed out is ascended and is in Heaven Glorified and for him in that Glorious Body we with the Apostles look for him from Heaven But 3. Here they clearly say they desire not the knowledge of that Saviour we look for from Heaven and so are out of the Apostles faith and hope and like the wicked ones that said they desired not the knowledge of Gods wayes Job 21. 14. 4. When they say that Faith which is not grounded in Christs appearance in us is to be turned up by the Roots Do they not plainly imply that the Apostles faith is to be turned up by the roots indeed we see how broadly they endeavour it for though the knowledge of Christ was given into the Apostles hearts and his Life and Vertues appeared in their Doctrine and walking yet their faith was not grounded in his appearing in them but in what Christ had done in his death and sufferings for them and in his appearing at Gods right hand for them see else Rom. 8. 33 34. Their faith stood in this that Christ had died yea rather was risen again and is at Gods right hand making intercession for them but we may see how far these mens faith differs from the Apostles that make no account of Christs appearing in the flesh or in his Glorious Body hereafter So as to have their faith grounded therein but only in an imaginary appearance of Christ in them for so it must be and no better that hath not for the ground of it Christ appearing in the flesh for them before they were born and so not in them and his appearing in Heaven for them and in Glory to them at the end of the World The faith of which they imply must be turned up by the Roots for mind what they oppose that saying to We said that at once they turne up by the Roots all the faith of Christs appearing in the presence of God to Mediate for us and make intercession which the Apostles and Primitive believers had so much of their hope and rejoycing in as also all the Faith and Hope of his Glorious descending and coming again to change our vile bodies c. and to all the Kingdome and Glory to be revealed to and enjoyed by the Saints Now they taking no notice of Christs appearing in Heaven to Mediate for us and having spoken of the Faith of Christs coming again from Heaven as a thing past in Pauls age say that our faith which is not grounded in Christs appearing in us which implyes all the points before mentioned for Christs appearing in us cannot be the ground of the faith of those things but only a fruit and confirmation of it is to be turned up by the Roots so that they deny the fundamental Doctrines to establish only their imaginary conceits But remember Reader that they said before that the Apostles were the true Apostles and so they be but false Apostles and Prophets in their imaginations 3. We charged them as Reprobate concerning the faith about the Resurrection of the dead and thou mayest see Reader what good ground we had so to do by what they have said now about it For if Christs coming at which the dead are to be raised was while the Saints in the Apostles time alive remained then is the Resurrection they speak of past so that there needs no further doubt of their corruption about that We charged them with saying that the same body that dies shall not be raised again and in their Book they plead stifly for it W. and F. We change George Foxes words for he said that which is raised is a spiritual body and
in the flesh or natural Body in its mortal state are absent from the Lord as is shewed in the Answer to their first Queries nor are they meet so to enter for flesh and blood man in his present mortal and unchanged state cannot inherit the Kingdom of God neither doth corruption inherit incorruption and they are yet dead though Christ be in them and the spirit made alive in a first fruits because of Righteousnesse yet the body is dead because of sin and so even they that have the first fruits of the spirit are yet waiting for the adoption that is the Redemption of the Body for their life is yet hid with Christ in God when Christ who is their life shall appear then shall they also appear with him in glory having their vile bodies fashioned into the likenesse of his Glorious Body 2 Cor. 3. 6 7 8. Phil. 1. 23 24 and 3. 21. Rom. 8. 10. 23. with Col. 3. 1. 3 4. 1 Cor. 15. 50. 53. W. F. 3. Querie Whether did the body of flesh and bones wherein Christ suffered descend from Heaven into the lower parts of the earth yea or nay seeing no man hath ascended up to Heaven but the Son of man which came down from Heaven and it is the same that descended into the lower parts of the earth that ascended far above all heavens that he might fill all things Ephes 4. 9 10. Psal 68. 18. Answ In this Querie is first an intimate acknowledgement though it may seem in a deriding way of Christs suffering in a Body of flesh and bones But the intention of this Querie with the following is to deny and reproach the acknowledgement of the Resurrection of Christ and his ascention into Heaven in that very body in which he suffered dyed and was buried in the denyal of which his personal Cross of sufferings is made of none effect The Apostles Preaching rendred vain and false and faith in him of no effect yea the general Resurrection of the dead is also herein denyed 1 Cor. 15. 13. 19. c. And to this purpose there is an Argument contained in this Querie by which they would inforce the denial of the foresaid acknowledgement of the Resurrection and Ascention of Jesus the Lord in that body of his flesh in which he suffered viz. That that body in which he suffered in the flesh did not descend from Heaven into the lower parts of the earth and therefore neither is that ascended up to Heaven seeing no man hath ascended up to Heaven but he that came down from Heaven c. So that here is more then a Querie even an Argument from their intimate and implyed denial of the descension of that body to inforce the denial of his ascention the corruption and foolishnesse of which we shall shew in our answer to the Querie to which we say 1. The Scriptures they mention give this plain answer That he even the Son of man came down from Heaven and descended into the lower parts of the earth which we believing do therefore confess as the Scripture hath said for although that his personal Body in which he was made man and became the son of man was actually prepared for him or the preparation of it was made in the earth according to that prophetical speaking of it long before in which by a word in the time past first another expression in the time to come following it is signified to be then vertually but not actually done the Lord hath created a new thing in the earth a woman shall compass a man Jer. 31. 22. for he was made flesh of a woman John 1. 14. Rom. 1. 3. Gal. 4 4 and therein curiously framed in the lower parts of the earth Psal 139 15. And so as to the matter of his Body as of the Seed of David it was not before materially existent in Heaven otherwise then in the Counsel of God decreeing and fore ordaining it and power effecting it and word made flesh in it yet the Son of man is truly said to come down from Heaven to have come forth from the Father Because that Eternal Word the only begotten Son of God that was made flesh in that one body prepared for him and is now become the Son of man He came down from Heaven for the Word was in being before he was made flesh he was in the beginning with God John 1. 1 2. And that word not only took or entered into flesh but was made flesh verse 14. So as the Word that was in the beginning and the flesh which in due time he was made and so is not now in making is one person one Son who is both the Son of God and the Son of man yea the two natures that of God and that of man though distinct and not confounded are united in one person so as what is said of either nature may though not in respect of the nature yet in respect of person be said of both As for instance In respect of the nature of man and as man and as pertaining to the flesh which he was made he dyed 1 Pet 2. 24. and 3. 18. and 4. 1. not is dying or suffering in that personal Body of his Rev. 1. 18. yet in respect of the person and because of the union of the two natures in one person his sufferings or blood is truly called Gods own Blood Acts 20. 28. and so it s said God laid down his life for us 1 John 3. 16. so in this businesse the Son of man came down from Heaven in as much as he that person that is the Son of man the Eternal Word and onely begotten Son of God that was made flesh he descended and came forth from the Father and came down from Heaven Yea also when he was on earth in his Body and not as then in that respect ascended yet then when he as God the Son of God the word that was made flesh in Heaven with the Father yea likewise in the vertue and preciousnesse of his being the Son of man and what he had undertaken to do in that Body on the Earth John 3. 13. with chap. 6. 62. and 20. 17. had these men known and believed that very Jesus of Nazareth of the Seed of David Abraham c. after the Flesh to be indeed the Lord from Heaven God blessed for ever and yet also true and very man both in one person and so Emmanuel God with us or in our nature for us they would not have made this querie 2. But for further answer we add That the Scriptures alleadged by them give no ground for their Querie whither that body did descend from Heaven because they spake not in such phrase or manner of speech as might be limitted to one of the natures onely for he saith not simply it or the same thing that descended as they would insinuate but he or that person that descended he is the same that ascended up and the person that descended
they render the knowledge of him as Preached by the Apostles and witnessed in the Ordinances as delivered by them fleshly and carnal and so to be let go for the other Surely Antichrist doth not onely figure forth but reveale himself in them by these Queries as may be seen in the light 21. Query And how must the life of Christ be shown forth And when If people must receive Bread and Wine as a continuing Ordinance in this life alwayes to shew forth the death of Christ Answ In the right shewing forth the Lords death the life of Christ is also acknowledged and shew'n forth For therein we shew not forth a dead Christ or Death simply but the Lords death that is as is shewed before the death of him who by means of that his death being raised from the dead in the Glory of the Father and made both Lord and Christ in that body in which he died and was buried is alive for evermore And so that death by which Peace was made and Redemption and life obtained in and by him for us That with him it might be given to us and in receiving him be received by us as he is received that is now by Faith And in the first fruits of those Spirituall blessings we are now blest within him and the hope of the fulnesse with the Redemption of the body at his second coming and so it is that death the excellency and preciousnesse of which is shewed in the testification of the glory God hath given him in his Resurrection and exaltation as the fruit of it that our faith and hope might be in God And so that of which and the preciousnesse thereof he now liveth to be an Apostle to us as likewise by vertue of which he appeares in the presence of God an High Priestâ— for us and therefore also is able to save to the utmost them that come to God by him And so in the right shewing forth the Lords death all this is acknowledged and shewed forth as that in which his death is commended as therefore infinitely worthy to be remembred and the Grace and Glory of God therein displayed And so in being Spiritually baptised into his death into the understanding and acknowledgement of it as declared in the Gospel Therein a man is also risen with him through faith of the operation of God and comes to prove the power of his Resurrection in such fellowship of his sufferings quickening to new and lively hope and affections by the Resurrection of Christ from the dead Col. 2. 1â— Phil. 3. 10. 1 Pet. 1. 1. 3. c. And is made a powerful Saviour of Christ to others either of life unto Life or of death unto Death For the Preaching or shewing forth the Crosse of Christ in which the whole Gospel of Christ the Wisdom of God the Power of God is preached that is to them that perish foolishnesse but to us that are saved it is the Power of God Whence the Apostled said God forbid that I should glory in any thing save in the Crosse of Christ by whom the World is crucified to me and I to the World yea he determined not to know any thing in his Preaching among believers but Jesus Christ and him crucified 1 Cor. 1. 18. 23 24. â— 2 with Gal 6. 14. And he had then the mind of Christ 1 Cor. 2. 16. and was therein rejoycing in and shewing forth the Life of Christ Gal. 2. 19 20. holding forth not a Ministration of death but of Spirit and Life 2 Cor. 3. 1 John 1. But this must needs be an offence and stumbling block to them who deny the abiding virtue and effecatious preciousnesse for others of that death once finished in that his own body and believe not his being raised and continuing for ever in the same body in which he died But set up an Idol in the name and place of him that is often dying rising and offering it self and in divers bodies For they cannot shew forth the death and life of their Immaginary Christ in one and the same demonstration because when he rises or is risen in them its another and not the same body that died which rises or is risen 22. Query What is your ground for sprinkling the Children of them you count Believers Have you ever a command from God or evident example for it if you have shew it Answ This Question is laid as a snare for such as differ from us in the Ordinance of Baptising with water in the Name of Christ as to the persons that may be baptized and the manner of baptising And yet agree with us in the acknowledgement of the Lords body and of the infinite Grace and abiding Vertue of his first appearing therein and the hope of his second and of the Resurrection of the dead and Eternal Judgment at his appearing to his Kingdom that so by seeming to take their part against us in this about baptisme they may catch them in their net For why else do they not as well question our grounds for the continuance of this Ordinance of Baptising with water in his Name as they have done that of the Lords Supper seeing it is notoriously known they make no more account of the one then of the other We shall therefore here say the lesse to this Hypocritical question But if any desire to understand the grounds of our practice in that they may see them at large shewed by the Scriptures in Treatises made publick the one by Joh. Horn called Considerations of Infant Baptism The other by Tho. Moor senior called A brief discourse about Baptism And if any that own the great things of the Doctrine of Christ but different from us in such lighter things will propound their distractions or reasons against our practice in answer to what is made publick or they have ours in manuscript which yet they have not done or otherwise we shall be ready to answer them though we think it not expedient here to speak to those things in which they differ from us who yet own the same Lord Jesus with us and waite for his Glorious appearance from Heaven And though differing from us in the manner or outward form of an Ordinance c. Yet do it to the same Lord whom we will neither judge nor dispise nor reckon them amongst or joyn them with such Enemies of the Crosse of Christ as prvily deny the Lord that bought them and dispise both his sayings and Ordinances 2. Why demand they a command from God or evident example for what we do in this seeing they contemn both in the former and in scorn reject the Ordinance it self as unprofitable We might answer this demand as our Saviour answers a like Question Mat. 21. 23 24 25. When they demanded of our Saviour by what Authority he did those things He answered and said unto them I also will aske you one thing which if ye tell me I likewise will tell you by what
that believing is which closing with that Object of faith is therefore called faith and not else 1. The Object of faith is the same that was preached by the Apostles for the obedience of faith or to the faith Gal. 1. 23. Rom. 1 3 4 5. and 16. 25 26. The most holy faith in believing to be built up in Jude 20 The precious faith of Gods elect Tit. 1 1 2 Pet. 1 2. Which object though one yet is three ways considerable 1. In respect of the most inmost and absolute Object the further and full stay of the soul and that is God Almighty the divine essence of God in Christ as evidenced by the holy Ghost in his infinite power love mercy truth c. And so God is called the trust of his people Psal 40. 4 and 17 3 5. 2. The most inmost and absolute medium which the believer discerns comes to and fastens on God and that is Jesus Christ the son of God become man the Saviour of the world c. Rom. 1 2 3 4 5. John 4. 42. 1 John 4. 14. And this as he is set forth in Scripture John 7. 37 38. Rom. 16. 26. Both in respect of what he hath done in his incarnation death resurrection sacrifice by which he made peace obtained redemption compleated righteousness and received spirit in the man and for men and what by vertue of all this he is doing in his mediation between God man and appearing in the heavens before God interceeding for transgressors and advocating and mediateing in speciall manner for believers affording and continuing means and sending forth spirit to the rebellious that the Lord God might dwell amongst them and to believers to lead them into all truth and what by reason and vertue of all said he is even the propitiation for sins wisdom righteousness holiness and redemption the Saviour of sinners the head of believers the fountain of life the Lord and Judge of all And what he hath assured in his 〈…〉 confirmed by his blood that he will do in his visible and glorious 〈…〉 the dead and causing all his peculiar to appear in glory with him and bring 〈…〉 before his judgements seate to acknowledge him and receive 〈…〉 1 Tim. 2 4 5 6. Tit. 1. 1. 2 3. and 2. 11. -14 and 3 -4. 7. And thus is Jesus Christ both the Object of faith and living and enlivening medium by which any comes to God and believe in God Heb. 7. 25. 1 Pet. 1. 21. 3 The instrumentall and outward Object or medium through which God in Christ and his well pleasedness in him and the things above mentioned are declared and according to which he is to be beheld believed and trusted in which is the faith the Apostles preached and wrote to be obeyed in believing and this is the word and Gospel of God and Christ as testified and recorded by the spiration and inspiration of the Holy Ghost in the holy Scriptures John 5. 39. and because so reported it is called his name Psal 138. 2. and believing him is in believing his Gospel Mark 1. 15. Joh. 2. 22. and 5. 47. and begins in glorifying his word Acts 13. 38. and so right believing on him is believing on him as the Scripture hath said John 7. 37. and according to his word and so trusting him in his word Pal. 56. 3 4. 10 11. and so to us-ward this is the first and outward Object and medium nigh to us discovering God and Christ that we may trust rightly in him the next which through this is come to the inmost living mediate Object discovered in that word and through that word believed in is Jesus Christ as aforesaid and so through Christ the last and most inmost and absolute Object is God in Christ 1 Tim. 4 10. Rom. 4. 24. and so the Object of faith is one that is God in Christ as discovered by his Spirit in the Gospel and this is the faith of which these opposers discover themselves by their own words to be void and of no judgement as after also may more appear 2. As for that believing which closeth with this Object of faith and is therefore called faith it is in holy Scripture shewen to have these three things in it together in one 1. A right discerning judgement and perswasion of God in Christ according to the discovery of himself in this word and testimony and begotten by this word and testimony Joh. 5. 39. 44. 47. and 7. 37. 2 Thes 1. 10. Rev. 19. 10 Heb. 11. 13. 2. From and with this an hearty imbracement of this discerned and from thence an unfeined believing and trusting in God for all the grace and glory in Christ promised Heb. 11. 13. Rom. 4. 18 -25 and 5. 8 9 10. 2 Tim. 4. 18. 3. Thirdly a yielding up the heart and powers to be saved and framed in affections choise and endeavours of service by the teachings allurements and operation of this grace believed Isa 45. 22. 2 Cor. 5. 20. Cant. 1. 3 4. and 2. 4 5 6. Phil. 3. 3 7 8 9. 1 Pet. 1. 5 6. 8. Rom. 6. 17. Tit. 2. 11 -14 Heb. 11. 13. And in these three meeting in one is that believing that closing with and receiving this Object of faith that is rightly called faith which had these opposers known they would not have avouched it an errour to say that Jesus Christ the Lord from Heaven the quickning Spirit dwelleth in believers by faith for by faith the Object discovered and believing or faith in the heart begot there they receive his word or testimony into their hearts Jam. 1. 18. 2 Cor. 3. 3. and where this word abideth in the heart there and so is Christ John 15. 4. 7. 1 John 2 24. and 5. 10. and 2. 9. And here through the Holy Ghost discovering Christ and the things of Christ the vertues of his death resurrection fulness sacrifice and by his divine light breathing and power glorifying him to their hearts John 15. 26 27. and 16. 13 14 15. 1 Pet. 1. 20. Rom. 4. 25. draweth them more on Christ 1 Pet. 2. 5. From whom they receive and believing have in them remission of sins Acts 10. 43. Col. 2. 13. Justification and peace with God in Christ access to God in that grace and hope of glory Rom. 5 1 2. 8 9 10 11. 1 Cor. 6. 11. And as these are by the word and spirit witnessed in them and received by them so and thereby is Christ in them 1 John 5. 10. 20. Col. 1. 27. And by the word and Spirit in it with these riches received is effected in them an inner man a new heart new Spirit the mind and disposition of Christ Ephes 4. 20 -24 Col. 3. 10 11. Rom. 8. 14 15. 1 Cor. 2. 16. 2 Cor. 3. 3. 17 18. And as this Spirit and mind and faith and love is in them so and therein is Christ and God in Christ in them ◠John 3. 24. and 4. 13. 16. And from this
namely for societies or congregations of distinct persons united and gathered tother under one head or Governour And his having them be understood in the second sence of having mentioned namely by donation and Covenant as his Church or Spouses Then to the question we further answer That in such a sence he hath one body and no more forasmuch as he the Head and Husband to whom being joyned Spiritually and by Faith they are of his Mystical body is but one that body can be no more but one for to them all there is but one Head Husband and Lord They are all built upon one foundation even Jesus Christ himself he being the chief corner Stone in whom the building fitly framed together groweth into an Holy Temple in the Lord Eph. 2. 18. 22. So though there be many members and also many particular societies of believers upon Earth yet they all make but one body or general Assembly and Church of the first-born Yea all believers now living upon the Earth and all dead as to the flesh even all the dead in Christ that sleep in Jesus whose spirits are made perfect are but one body of Christ in that sence of the word body as Eph. 4. 4. with 1 Cor. 12. 12 13. with Ephes 2. 18. 22. Heb. 12. 22. 25. And this his body may be said to be partly in Heaven partly on Earth for there in Heaven with him are the spirits of Just men made perfect Unto whom also those unfeigned believers living upon the Earth are come by Faith which is the evidence of things not seen the confidence of things hoped for and so Spiritually and by Faith have their conversation in Heaven from whence also they look for the Saviour the Lord Jesus Christ who shall change their vile body that it may be fashioned like unto his Glorious body So then the body of Christ is but one in any one sence of the word body though as the word body is used in divers sences he hath a body which is peculiarly called his Body or the body of Christ in two sences As the head of some believing women is spoken of in a threefold sence 1 Cor. 11. her personall head her husband and Christ yet in proper and strict speaking she hath but one head because her head is but one in any one sence of the word head but one personal head but one husband but one Christ yet her head in each of these sences is distinct yea every member of the Body of Christ the Church hath a personal head of their naturall body distinct from Christ the mystical head of them all So hath Christ a personal body and members called the body of his Flesh his now Glorious Body Col. 1. 22. Phil. 3. 21. Distinct from his body the Church Col. 1. 24. else he could be no meet or proper head for such a body or Congregation where every member hath a particular personal body and members distinct But take body in any one sence of the word Body and there is not two but one Body of Christ as before is shewed nor indeed are any of his Body the Church but such as are by Faith united and joyned unto that one Lord in that his one personal body now Glorified with the Father as their Head Lord and Husband Nor are the head and members divided but their union is spiritual and by Faith not sensual The head is the fore-runner and in that his own personal body in which he bore our sins and is the head of his body the Church He is already entred into Heaven whether the members in their particular bodies are not in a like sence entered but by Faith and hope do enter and so have their conversation in Heaven from whence they look for the Saviour the Lord Jesus Christ who shall change their vile body that it may be fashioned into the likensse of his Glorious Body for here they walk by Faith and not by sight And while they are at home in the clay Tabernacle flesh or natural body they are absent from the Lord in a like sence as at home in the body they are not otherwise present with him now but in Spirit and by Faith Heb. 4. 3. 10. 14. and 6. 19 20. 2 Cor. 5. 6 7. Heb. 10. 37 38. Phil 3. 20 21. Col. 3. 1. 4. Such therefore are not of the true Church or body of Christ but of Antichrist as are vainly puft up with their sensual minde not holding the Head c. Col. 2. 18 19. And that these men are such appeares in their seeking to insinuate by this query and the rest that to believe and acknowledge that the man Christ Jesus continues even in that body of his flesh now Glorified with the Father as the Head of the Church in a personal being distinct from his body the Church and from every member thereof is to make Christ to have two Bodies one in Heaven and another on Earth and therefore they endeavour privily to make a nullity of his personal body the body of his flesh or to deny his still having it and possessing now in it that Glory which he had with the Father before the World was and so hold not the head forasmuch as he is not otherwise the Head of his Body the Church But as now he is in that personal body Glorified and because this man continues ever in that Name and Glory of his Father which through sufferings in the same Body he hath obtained for us that by him our Faith and Hope might be in God We have been the larger in this first Answer as well to help the weak in understanding things that differ or are distinct that so they may discern and approve things that are excellent as also to shew the corruptnesse of their way in confounding things clearly distinct and distinguished in the Scripture and seeking by such confusion to work their ends in deceiving the simple which also may further appeare in their following Queries and the more easily by the help of what hath been said in answer to this W. and F. Quest 2. Whether the Body of Christ which is the fulnesse of God whereof the Saints are members is a Body of Flesh and Bones in the Heavens yea or nay Answ This Question also is foolish and unlearned for besides that it privily pursues the same designe of denying the remaining of the being of the personal Body of our Lord Jesus Christ and that in the same way with the former by confounding things clearly distinct c. as aforesaid It also takes that for granted as the ground of it which is not granted by us in those expressions it being no where so expressed in the Scripture of the body of Christ in either sence Namely That the body of Christ is the fulnesse of God Of him in his own personal body in which he is the Head of his body the Church the Scriptures saith in him dwelleth all the fulnesse of the Godhead
infalible proofs being seen of them fourty dayes c. In all which he demonstrated himself to them to be the same person and in the same Body yea to have the same flesh and bones hands and feet in which he dwelt among them and walked up and down with them in the dayes of his flesh or weaknesse and in which he was crucified through weaknesse And that now in the same Body he did live again by the Power of God and in the Glory of his Father and did or presently should ascend up and go away from them to the Father to appear in the presence of God in Heaven it self for them to prepare a place for them c. And that from thence he might even in the same body in the Name and Glory of his Father descend or come down again and receive them to himself with all else who through his Grace bringing Salvation to all men in due time do love and waite for that his Glorious appearing that they may be with him for ever See the Scriptures before mentioned to this purpose how after his Resurrection he did evidently demonstrate himself to them Luke 24. 36. to the end And to Thomas particularly who not being with the rest when they had seen the Lord had said to them except I shall see in his hands and put my finger into the print of the nayles and thrust my hand into his side I will not believe See what follows John 20. 24 to the end For even those things are written that we in after ages that have not so seen him might believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God and that believing we might have life through his Name See also how further he asserts concerning his Ascension and going away from them to the Father John 20. 17. with Chapter 14. 3. 28. and 16. 5 9. 28. And that the same Jesus of Nazareth even Christ of the fruit of Davids loyns after the flesh for the name Jesus was not given him or not so as that he was called by it till he had taken and was made flesh and it alwayes signifies that person as so made and includes the body of his flesh That he in the same Body did Ascend and was parted from them after he had so shewed himself unto them and was carried and received up into Heaven even as he had said unto them See the Scriptures Mark 16. 19 Luke 24. 50. 51. Acts 1. 2 3. 9 10 11. and 2. 22. 36. As likewise that the Heaven must receive him till the times of restitution of all things And then and to that God shall send him from thence in the Glory he now possesseth for us there Acts 3 13. 21. Mat. 16. 27. In the mean time he appears in the presence of God for us even in Heaven it self there possessing Bodily even in the man the Glory he had with the Father as his onely begotten Son before the World was Heb. 9. 24. John 17. 45. Col. 2. 9 Acts 5. 30 31. Heb. 7. 23. 26. with Chap. 8. 1. 3. 4. So that this Jesus is the very Christ Acts 9. 22. and 18. 28. with Chap. 17. 3. And the man Christ Jesus is the one Mediator between God and men even he the same who gave himself a ransom for all and is not any more to be offered in Sacrifice or to give himself a Ransome for us But to be testified to us in due time We come in the next place to their query under this 5th head viz. Quest What is that place he is in far above all Heavens which is not Heaven Answ This question is foolish and unlearned for asmuch as it takes for granted either as our minde or saying or as the expression of the Scripture that there is some place far above all Heavens which is not Heaven Whereas neither is this any saying of ours nor any where in the Scripture but their filly inference Nor is there any ground for their question in the words of the Scripture which they seem to allude to For that Ephes 4. 10. speaks not expresly of a place far above all Heavens but of a person He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all Heavens c. And sure its understandable enough that a person exalted to great Glory and dignity may be far above the place of his Habitation where he possesseth it Yea is it not said of God that made the Heavens and the Earth that Heaven is his Throne upon which he sitteth Mat 23. 22. the place of his Habitation Psal 33. 14. And yet sure the Creator is infinitly above and greater than the Creature yea he hath set his Glory above the Heavens Psal 8. 1. This Question therefore as stated by them we may justly reject as a foolish and perverse disputing of men of corrupt mindes destitute of the Truth Yet we shall here also as alwayes by the Grace of God with simplicity and Godly sincerity clearly assert and shew by the Scriptures the Truth of God against their privy endeavours to cast down the man Christ Jesus from his Excellency And so we say The place or places where he now possesseth his Glory in that body of his flesh for us is the Heaven it selfe Heb. 9. 24. The place of the Habitation or Throne of God Psal 33. 13. 14 Isa 66. 1. Mat. 23. 22. For he is with him appearing in the presence of his Glory for us in Heaven it self when we cannot in such wise appear for our selves nor in our own persons while at whom in the body in its mortal state he is set on the Right hand of the Throne of Majesty in the Heavens Heb. 8. 1. into which he is passed and gone up Heb. 4. 14. 1 Pet. 3. 22. And yet therein he may be truly and properly said to be ascended or gone up far above all Heavens not only in respect of Glory and Dignity but even in respect of place or local height also When it self the Heaven or Heaven of heavens the place or places on high whether he is gone up is distinctly mentioned in the same Scripture and speech as it is in that Eph. 4. 8. 10. He ascended on high saith ver 8. far above all Heavens saith ver 10. Now as the Apostle teacheth us to argue 1 Cor. 15. 27. But when he saith all things are put under him its manifest that he is excepted that did put all things under him So we may say here when he saith he is ascended on high far above all Heavens it appears that the place or places on high where he possesseth this Glory for us is excepted from those all Heavens far above which he is locally ascended or gone up And so we read of the Heaven of heavens 1 Kings 8. 27. Neh. 9. 6. Sometimes also called the Heavens of heavens Psal 148. 4. And also that Christ of the fruits of Davids loyns after the flesh is ascended on high far above all Heavens even into
as in beaven for there he appears in the presence of God personally in that his own body the body of his flesh in which he bore our sins on the tree not so in with or among them now but by his Spirit which he calls another Comforter as distinguished from his own person John 14. 16. 18. 26. They see him not as the Apostles and first witnesses Acts 1. 3. 1 Cor. 15. 5. 8. John 20. 29. 1 Pet. 1. 8. But in the evidence and demonstration of the Spirit through their Doctrine They have him not with them as or in such a sence as they have the poor with them viz. in bodily presence Yea they are absent from him while at home in the body even in a like sence as aforesaid as at home in the body 2. Nor is he gone up into or received in Angels and so set on the Right hand of Power in them but passed and gone into Heaven far above all Principallity and Power Angels and Authorities being made subject to him Nor can Heaven in such places as forementioned mean any State of Glory or Dignity as distinct from the place where he possesseth it for it is said he shall descend or come down from heaven where he is now received till the restitution of all things 1 Thes 4. 16. Phil. 3. 21. Acts 3. 20. 21. But in respect of state of Glory he shall not descend he shall never more lay aside any of that Glory or Dignity he now possesseth for us or be abased or humbled for us as before But shall still sit on the Right hand of Power which expresseth the state of Glory and dignity he now possesseth for us which he shall still possess even when he comes down from heaven and appears personally on the Earth the second time Mat. 26. 64. Yea the words in the Heavens do plainly express the place where he now possesseth his Glory in the man as distinguished from the Glory he there possesseth with the Father which is expressed in other expressions distinct as his being set on the Right hand of God on the right hand of Power on the right hand of the Throne of the Majesty in which he is now exalted and glorified in the man and that in the heavens or heaven it self as Heb. 8. 1. 1 Pet. 3. 22. And so in all such Scriptures as before by heaven and so by the heaven or heavens whether he is gone up and where he is received and possessed of that Infinite Glory in the body of his flesh for us is evidently meant according to the most direct and proper sence of the word the place or places on high where he is so received and appeares in the presence of God for us And to this we gave these demonstrations in our discourse in their hearing to which they have answered nothing 1. It is called Heaven it self Heb. 9. 24. To distinguish it from heaven after any figurative Typical or other sence of the word 2. He is said to be ascended up thither passed and gone into Heaven yea received and taken up Eph. 4. 10. Heb. 4. 14. 1 Pet. 3. 22. Mark 16. 19. Acts 1. 2. 9 all which expressions plainly import a place or places above whither he is so taken up Yea 3. It is likewise said that in being so taken or carried up he was parted from them Luke 24 51. And after that was no more so with them in the World John 17. 11. 12 13. Mat. 26. 11. 4. The Heaven into which he was taken up from his Disciples was the same or Heaven in the same sence as of which it is said the Apostles and disciples stood stedfastly looking towards it as he went up Acts 1. 9 10 11. 5. The same from whence he shall descend or come again in like manner as those chosen witnesses saw him go when he comes to restore all things in their individuals Acts 1. 11. and 3. 20 21. Phil. 3. 20 21. 1 Thes 4. 16. And that cannot be his Church for he shall not then go from them but come to them nor his Glory he now possesseth as before said for he shall not come from that but in it even in the Glory of his Father and with his Holy Angels But is evident to be onely the place or places on high where he now possesseth that Glory for us from whence he shall descend or come down againe still sitting on the Right hand of Power 6. It s that Heaven or heaven in such a sence as it is properly opposed to the Earth where and on which the former Priests served yea it is expresly said If he were on Earth he were not a Priest such a one as becomes us to have Heb. 8. 1. 3 4. and 4. 14. with Chapter 7. 26. In which its plain that he is not on Earth in his personall and bodily presence as he is in Heaven as opposed to the Earth And the necessity of his going away thither and being received and appearing there in the presence of God for us and of what usefulness it is to us and of what concernment the holding fast the acknowledgment of it is such as know the Grace of God in Truth do know something may be seen of it in Tho. Moor junior his Antidote pag. 41 42. and 43. And in his instruction to the living pages 39. 51. And they that deny it do deny Jesus to be the great high Priest yea they deny his being already come in the flesh so as that the works given him to do on the Earth in that his own body for the expiation of sin are finished as John 17. 4 5. with Heb. 1. 3. and 7. 26 27. and 9. 24 26. And so in sum deny Jesus to be the Christ and therein shew themselves lyars Deceivers Antichrists and are therefore and as such to be turned away from and held accursed by us 7. Que. Can a body of Flesh and Bones be both in the Heavens and far above them all and fill all things at one and the same time Yea or nay Answ Nay but the man Christ Jesus in that body of his flesh in which he bore our sins on the tree and hath flesh and bones now raised and gloryfied with the Fathers own self being ascended on high and set down on the Right hand of Majesty in the Heavens and so being with the Father and in his Name God over all blessed for ever He may from thence and in that Name Power and Glory fill all things and fulfill all things too as that Text also may be read in his time and according to his Word And the Text saith not that his body fills or might fill all things but he for whom God prepared that body and who in that body is ascended up far above all Heavens and is not now on the Earth in his Glorious personal Bodily presence nor saith it that he doth fill all things but he is ascended that he might fill or fulfill all things The
and grew in body and waxed strong in Spirit fil'd with Wisdom and the Grace of God was upon him Mat. 2. 13. to the end Luke 2. 39 40 c. And when in that body of his he was twelve years old going up with his parents to Jerusalem when they returned he tarried behind them Which he could not have done if personally or essentially in them as in that his own body and after seeking him three dayes with sorrow at last they found him not in themselves or in other persons but in the Temple sitting in the midst of the Doctors and he went down with them and came to Nazareth and was subject to them which was part of his abasement and service and his mother hid or kept not his body within her womb any more after born of her but his sayings in her heart And after John the son of Zachary and Elizabeth his messenger had been preparing his way Baptizing and Preaching the Baptisme of Repentance he himself came the Text saith not into but unto John to be baptized of him And when he was Baptized the Heavens were opened unto him and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a Dove and lighting upon him and lo a voice from Heaven saying not of John but of Jesus This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased a like voice after in his transiguration before three of his Disciples they heard from Heaven not speaking of them but of him whence they said that he not they received from God the Father Honour and Glory when there came such a voice to him from the Excellent Glory 2 Pet. 1. 17 18. with Mat. 17. 1. 5. And so John his fore-runner having both seen and heard professed not himself but this Jesus to be the Christ and pointed to him not as in himself or as in other men but as a distinct person standing not in every of them but among them the beholders though they knew him not and proclaimed him to be and called men to behold him as such the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the World John 1. 19. 36. and 3. 26. 36. After this the same Jesus of Nazareth manifested himself and walked up and down more openly and generally among the Jewes Preaching the Gospel and doing good calling and choosing Disciples and was approved of God amongst Friends and Enemies by miracles and signes which God wrought by him in the midst of them such as none before him ever did nor after any like works but in his Name but he was hated of the Sadduces that denied the Resurrection of the dead of the Pharisees that trusted in themselves that they were Righteous and by their means of the chief of the People and of many of the inferiour also At last they arreigned and falsly condemned him and delivered him to Pilate and so to the Gentiles to be Crucified and he was by them hung upon the Tree and Crucified and when dead was buried by two Honourable persons not in themselves but in a new Sepulchre which was sealed and watched by Souldiers that he might not be stolen away unto all which the Father delivered him and he gave himself for our sins But he in the same body that was dead and buried even Jesus of Nazareth rose again the third day and was witnessed by Angels to be risen and not to be there in the grave the emptinesse of which place the orderly lying of the cloathes witnessing the same And then he appearing to his Disciples shewed himself alive in that very Body having the very same flesh and bones hands and feet though now in another quality viz. Spiritual Immortal in which they had foreseen him Mortal then he acquainted them with the ends necessity of his Death and Resurrection and shewed opened to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself opening their understandings that they might understand the Scriptures gave them the Gospel which he had received from his Father Commission with commandment to Preach it make it known out of the Scriptures of the Prophets to all Nations for the obedience of Faith and having prayed for their Sanctification fitnesse to that service and for blessing on all that after should believe through their word he also promised his Spiritual presence with them in that Ministration to the end of the World After which while he blessed them and while they beheld he was parted from them in that body of his and ascended and was received up into Heaven and according to his promise did soon after send down and powre out upon them the Holy Ghost to furnish and enable them to their Ministry And so he hath already come in the flesh and perfected all that he was to do in his own body in his first coming as all that read and believe the record God hath given of his Son and caused to be written for our instruction may plainly and more fully discern Nor was this coming of his ever so seen nor but by Faith of any before those times no though it hath been desired by many of them Mat. 13. 16 17. Luk. 10. 23 24. But by Faith they saw it and rejoyced John 8. 56. with Heb. 11. 1. 12. Nor yet hath it ever been so seen of any since the Apostles so saw it and him 1 Cor. 15. 5. 8. and Chap. 9. 1. with Chap 4. 9. 1 Pet. 1. 8. Nor will he ever come in that manner to suffer and do over those things again so to be seen John 16. 10. Rom. 6. 9 10. Acts 13. 34. But these things are written concerning him even this Jesus that we may believe that he is the Son of God the Lords Christ and that believing we may have life through his Name John 20. 31. And so our sight is onely in believing by Faith as Heb. 11. 1. 3 Yea they are pronounced blessed that having not seen him so as the Apostles did yet have believed John 20. 29. In which believing to understand and know him to have come in the flesh and to have done and to be that for us as the Testimony recorded declareth is to know him not after the flesh or carnal and sensual mind but after the Spirit according to the Testimony he hath already given of him and in his Light and Power shining and working in and with that Testimony by which onely these things now not so seen as before are made evident plain and powerfully nigh that they might be believed with the heart and confessed with the mouth and still made further precious to and effectual on them that believe 2 Cor. 5. 14 15 16 17. c. Rom. 1. 16 17. and 10. 6. 9 10. And whosoever now boast of having otherwise seen his first coming his appearance and Manifestation in the flesh is a lyar Yea neither is this Jesus who is the very Christ now in that his own personal body in the World we have him not
of men set up before 6. Our Christ is by his Word and spirit and the riches of his Grace in the hearts of his people by faith quickening and inlivening them which these perverters deny and jeer at and say Their Christ in all the reality of his Body with his Flesh and Blood is wholly within them for so some of them have said even sensibly bearing their sins in them though not willingly as Christ bare ours on the Tree but desiring to be free and so is rising in them and reigning in Glory So as the Redemption and Resurrection of the Body others wait for these say they have in this body within a pleasing fancy 7. Our Christ will come again personally in his own Glorious Body and every eye shall see him in which coming he will not by degrees or one after another but at once together in one moment in the twinkling of an eye change the surviving and raise the dead bodies of all that sleep in Jesus so as they shall be all mortal and meet him in the air and appear in Glory with him freed from all Hunger Persecution Sorrow and death for ever and blessed in the enjoyment of him with whom they shall reign for evermore and when he is set on his Throne he will gather all Nations before him raising all men not leaving out these Deceivers but all shall appear before his Judgement Seat even those that rebel against him and in this day deny him then shall they acknowledge him Lord and his People that have now confest him the beloved of the Lord when themselves shall be judged by him and sent into the Lake of Fire c. all which coming of his and the Resurrection of the dead and judgement after death the bodily death is by those Perverters also altogether denyed they owning no other coming of Christ then some of them enjoy now nor other Resurrection then is now sometime of one and sometime of another and yet they of them that enjoy the Resurrection of the body they talk of sometime bunger and feel pain and cry out of Persecution and must die the bodily yea and rise again to the second death too 8. Our Christ hath by his spirit so fully discovered himself in the Testimony of the Gospel that is the written verity that in and according to the plain import of the saying thereof he is to be known so far as we may know him till his coming again and by and wit that the Holy Spirit doth witnesse of him to and teach the hearts of the believers and they from the same spirit and according to the same Gospel do conside in him confesse him and hold him sorth to others and for that are opposed by these perverters Of whose Christ and their Doctrine of him though whatever is said of the true Christ or of his Church in the Scripture they apply to their false Christ and to themselves as if they meant no other Christ nor faith then the Scriptures speak of perverting them to that end Yet the scripture writing indeed speaketh not but to the condemnation overthrow and confusion thereof warning all believers not to hear or follow them nor receive them to house nor bid them God-speed But hold them accursed beware them and avoid them as Wolves false Apostles and Reprobate concerning the Faith Such the Doctrine and Principles which these men call the truth which indeed is errour and darknesse let the Scriptures be compared 2. For the manner of their managing and maintaining their doctrine let these particulars amongst divers others be noted 1. They come in their own name or authority boasting of themselves and witnessing to and of themselves and so obtruding things upon men not by and in the light and evidence of the spirit in and according to the Scriptures as the true Apostles use to do but upon their own authority and the authority of their sayings and witnessings which therefore they say also are of equal authority with c. Better than the saying of the Holy Spirit in the Scriptures as appeares by George Whiteheads answers to the Cambridge Queries To this purpose is their saying in their Title Page that what they have written and made manifest in their Book is they say by the Truth they say not which is in Christ or in the Gospel of Christ but which is in George Whitehead John Whitehead George Fox the younger to which three witnesses in their own names We oppose the three in Heaven the Father the Son or Word and the Holy Ghost and the truth that is in and is witnessed by them much of this their way of self-witnessing and obtruding things in their own name word or authority the Reader may see in their Book p. 8. 13. 18. 20 21 22 23. 26. In which they are such as the false Christs and the false Prophets of whom our Lord said to the Jews if another come in his own name him ye will receive John 5. 43. And like the Idol worshippers and preachers of whom the Lord says by the Prophet Isaiah that they were their own witnesses Isa 44. 9. And though they say the Lord saith yet they do therein as the false prophets affirming the Name of the Lord to their own words dreames fancies or deceits as in Jer. 23. 16. 25 26 27. Ezek. 13. 7. As we might also instance in some they have said of that they were Priests and Hirelings and took Tythes that were never exercised in such away as a certain woman said of Thomas Moor junior at Glentworth in Lincoln-shire and George Fox said in Bury Goal of one Disbrough brother in law to Joseph Hagger being a trads-man in London yet they pretended that they speak by the Revelation of the spirit of them in which their imposture and deceit was made manifest 2. When they do quote Scripture they usually pervert and corrupt it altering leaving out something or adding thereto corrupt and false glosses we may instance some few particulars in their book against us As 1. Alleadged 1 John 5 10. He that believeth hath the witnesse in himself bâ—ing out on the Son of God without which it is not true for the Devils believe yet have not the witnesse spoken of in 1 John 5. in themselves Jam. 2. 19. 2. They alleadge 1 John 4. 17. as he is so are we in this World to prove that they are without sin here as well or much as Christ is though its evident that contradicts the Apostle himself who says 1 John 1. 8. If we say we have no sin we deceive our selves touching which quotation because they make some specious use of it to deceive the simple We shall note some things here further about it for the help of the weak let the Reader mind then that 1. He saith not as he was besore the World was so are we in this World for so he was glorified with the Fathers own self equal to God and in his forme the same with
God by whom all things were made So there was not nor ever was or will be any other man or Angel like him and so as he was and is John 1. 1 2 3. Col 1. 15 16. Phil. 2. 7. 2. He saith not as he was when the Word was made flesh in Vnion of Person with the Son of God Gods onely Son his first begotten and first born God-man in one Person John 1. 14. 18. Mat. 1. 23. So is no man else 3. He saith not as he is now at Gods Right hand in his body glorified by virtue of that he did here on the Earth in his personal sufferings for so he is the Lord of all Angels Powers and Authorities being made subject to him 1 Pet. 3. 22. alive and living for evermore and hath the Keys of Hell and Death Rev. 1. 18. Yea so he is the Christ exalted a Prince and Saviour to give Repentance and Remission of sins Acts 2. 36. and 5. 31 32. The great High Priest and King that hath all Power in Heaven and Earth given to him Heb. 7. and 8. Mat. 28. 18. The fulnesse of the God-head dwelling in him bodily Col 2. 9 10. The Mediator of God and man 1 Tim. 2. 5. The Way the Truth the Life John 14. 6. The recoverer of Man-kind the second Man the last Adam who is made a quickening Spirit Rom 5. 14. 18. Gal. 3. 13. 14. and 4. 4. 1 Cor. 15. 45 to 49. The Saviour of the World and propitiation for the sins of the whole World 1 John 2. 2. and 4. 14. The Authour of Faith and of Salvation Heb. 12. 2. and 5. 9. The caller of all Isa 45. 22. The Head and Husband of the Church and special Advocate of believers Ephes 5. 26. and 1. 22. 23. 1 John 2. 1. So he is and was so as there never was is or will be found another in these respects as he to do that which and as he hath done and to be by virtue thereof as and what he is 4. He saith not as he is in himself in his own person and for the work done by him and excellency in him in the estimate will and love of God his Father so and in the same manner and sence are we Not so for it hath pleased the Father that in him all fulnesse should dwell and that in all things he should have the preheminence Col. 1. 18 19. And so likewise is he in the esteem of the true Church 2 Cor. 4. 5. Col. 3. 11. So as no other is as he much lesse upon the account of any thing done in and by them 5. He saith not as he shall appear at his coming again so are we in this World no that is denied by the Apostle for in that respect we are dead and our life hid with Christ in God and such conformity to him is not here to be enjoyed but waited for till his glorious appearing 1 John 3. 2. Col. 3. 3 4. none yet so as he is Phil. 3. 12. and 20 21. 6. He saith not simply as he is so are we not so for he is the mighty God Tiâ— 2. 13. God over all blessed for ever Rom. 9. 5. God-man in one person John 1. 14. Mat. 1. 23. He by whom the Worlds are upheld Heb. 1. 3. And by him God will raise and judge all men Rom. 2. 16. None therefore so as he in such respects 7. Nor saith he as he was in the World so are we though in some respects that be true He when here in weaknesse here on Earth was then Immanual the onely begotten Son of God the Saviour of the World So no other none so impowered to give forth the Gospel and appoint new Ordinances to be used as he was we may onely receive declare and use what he gave forth and appointed Yet as he when on Earth preached that Gospel and suffered shame and reproach for so doing and was humble meek loving patient and constant to the death in so doing So it becomes us to do and be that we may therein be like him John 15. 1â— 22. Ephes 5. 1. 2. 1 Pet. 2. 22. And so in living by Faith so as he but this Text speaks in a more proper Language for incouragement And so 8. He saith plainly not of others but of themselves the Apostles and those unfained believers that were one with them in the same Faith as he is so are we in this World He had before declared the foundation and Gods love commended therein as the ground of confidence and love vers 9. 10 11. like that in Rom. 5. 1. 10. And how by the abiding of this love in us God dwells in us and his love is perfected in us vers 7 8. 12 13. And then affirming that they had seen and did Testifie that the Father sent the Son the Saviour of the World vers 1â— and how they had known and believed the same commended through him and how they that have believed and dwell in that love dwell in God and God in them vers 15 16. He adds herein is love with us or our love made perfect he saith not so perfect as there is no fear in us because there is none in love but that perfect love casteth out fear c. doth dayly or continually cast it out as it riseth in us that so we may have boldnesse in the day of Judgement And giveth this as the reason because as he is which can here be no other then as he is in the publication and demonstrations of him in the Gospel approved and received or dispised and rejected so are we in the declaration and holding forth of this message approved or rejected in this World which is sutable to that foretold by our Saviour Mat. 10. 40. Luke 10. 16. Again as he used comparatively signifies not in every respect nor in the fulnesse of measure as may be seen Mat. 10. 16. Gal. â— 12. Rev. 16 15. And so here Not as he by his omnipotent power upholding the Heavens and the Earth and ruling amongst all for ever making his counsel to take place upholding his Church in the World c. Not as be is in his omniscience in the World seeing all things and beholding the hearts thoughts and wayes of all men not as he in his Perfection of Holinesse and Righteousnesse as inherently found in us He is yet about that work to bring his Church to that that he may in his season present them so to himself Ephes 5. 26 27. 1 Thes 5. 23 24. Acts 3 19 20 21. Because of his perfect Righteousnesse and Power vengence belongs to him and he may punish and cut off at his pleasure not so we Rom. 12. 19. So that such an assuring to be like him as thâ—se imply in such perfection of sinlessnesse applying it to themselves is to aspire to such a likenesse to and equality with God as the Serpent tempted Eve to And no marvel if such be high conceited of themselves and
Epistle to the Reader as ours in which they shew their ignorance and deceit they be thus T. Moor say they affirmed That sin is a natural heritage in the beleevers while they be here To which T. Moor saith Ans This is falsly expressed his sayings were That sin is in the beleever as a natural heritage from Adam while he is in this mortal body And in noting this as erroneous they intimately deny the natural uncleanness of man by sin entring into the world by one mans sin and so that all have sinned in him and are fallen short of the glory of God in and unto which they were created Or else with the Papists imagine that its taken away by Baptism or Regeneration so as no more to be in men here But note that T. M. says its in them as a natural heritage from the first natural root fallen Adam in which is implied a distinction between what is the beleevers by nature as a son of the first Adam a man and what is his by grace as in Christ the second Adam and the Apostle tells us That by one man sin entred into the world and death by sin and that it abides in the beleever after beleeving is plain in that Paul says sin dwelt in him even then when he says it was not he that did sin but sin in him Rom. 7. 17 20. For I know that in me that is in my flesh dwelleth no good thing there his natural heritage In which also he implies that in his Spirit was that that is good dwelling as also he after says vers 22. and that sin abides not in the beleever till death we find no Scripture saith but the contrary That no man living shall be justified in the sight of God if he enter into judgement with him Psal 143. 2. If no man living but by Gods not entring into judgment with him then no man living here is without sin for if there were though God did enter into judgement with him he should be justified for God certainly cannot in judgment or will not condemn him in whom is no sin so that their ignorance and error herein appears in accusing T. M. of Error herein 2. T. M. say they affirmed that their nature is restored in Christ speaking of their own nature and that their nature is a filthy nature and Christ took upon him their nature Ans This also is falsly expressed and perverted for his sayings were to this effect That the nature or kind of man is perfectly redeemed and restored in one for all even in Christ the second Adam while yet sin is in and death upon the Individuals or particular persons of men for whom such Redemption is obtained in and by Jesus Christ Yea even the beleevers body is yet vile while not changed by death and they all waiting for the redemption of the body but here they confound things together and deal deceitfully they might as well have taxed the Apostle of confusion for saying men by nature do the things contained in the Law Rom. 2. 14. and yet by nature are children of wrath Eph. 2. 3. The word Nature signifies diversly when we say our nature is restored in Christ we speak of the nature or kind of man as it is distinguished from the nature or kind of Angels and other creatures which whole nature by reason of sin committed by it in Adam was fallen under wrath and curse but being assumed by Christ who was made flesh and man and not in the nature or kind of Angels he hath redeemed it even mans nature or being which is ours too inasmuch as we are men and restored it to favour and fellowship with God in himself and yet we say our nature kind or being as in us not in Christ for the same common nature kind or being of man is in every man though in divers persons diversly is corrupt and filthy in it self by reason of sin in it Isai 64. 6. and death upon us further then purified and purged by him yet Christ took upon him our nature as before not as it is filthy in us by sin in it but as it was under bondage to death and ourse without filth in him he being sanctified in his conception so as to be the Holy One even in his Birth Luke 1. 35. whereas others are conceived in sin and shapen in iniquity Psal 51. 5. so that there is neither error nor confusion in what is said by T. M. hereabout but they have mis-related his sayings and therefore tax them because they agree not with their Errors concerning mans natural sinfulness called Original sin and the humanity of Christ denied by them 3. John Horn they say holds that they that had no guile in them had sin in them that every sin is not guile Answ T is well they dared not to put in David with him as holding the same error for he says that man is blessed whose sins are covered and to whom the Lord will not impute sin and in whose spirit there is no guile so then it seems some men in whose spirit is no guile have sins in them though covered and not imputed to them there needs no cover for what is not yet John Horn did not say that every one that had no guile in him had sin in him for he excepts Jesus Christ who neither did sin nor had guile in him not that Principle then but the contradiction of it is the Error 4. T. M. say they affirmed That the blood of Christ shed is not in his person in heaven but the vertue of it To which T. M. saith Ans That herein also they have altered and falsified his sayings which in Answer to their Question where the blood of Christ is was to this effect That the material blood was shed and the vertue or preciousness thereof or of his bloodshedding is now with the Father in the person of Christ in Heaven forasmuch as by means and for the worth thereof he is raised from the dead and entred into heaven it self there to appear in the presence of God for us having by it obtained life from the dead even eternal life and redemption for us Mind also Reader that they say p. 15. that they blame us not nor did blame us for not asserting that the bloodshed is in the body of Christ Why then note they this as a dangerous principle had T. M. so said 5. T. M. say they affirmed That the blood of Christ shed is the foundation of their faith but where it is they answered not nor could they tell Ans The forementioned Answer to their Question was first often given and urged else what meant their reply to it to this effect That the vertue of a thing cannot be separated from the thing it self that it may be where the thing it self is not in a present reall sensible existence or being the contrary to which was then proved as is shewed in the Book they pretend to answer And further T.
in his members and these two warring the one against the other but their arguing is like as if they should say the beleever hath no flesh or blood in his body because he hath a spirit in his body that hath neither flesh nor blood in it or that they be guilty of the imperfection of witlesness because they have something in them their gutts suppose that be witless and they are not divided from their nature they adde John said speaking of Christ as he is so are we in this world 1 Joh. 4. 17. and therefore that we have manifestly wronged them and the Apostles Rep. That we have either wronged them or the Apostles is false for that they hold what we said they do they deny not and that the Apostles so held they prove not the place they quote says not as Christ is without sin in himself so are we in this world no more then he saith as Christ is without a natural corruptible body or without pain ach or bodily death so are we in this world they may as well gather the one as the other from that saying and that the Apostle meant it not in respect of sinlesness as men is evident by comparing it with 1 John 1. 8. where he saith If we say we have no sin we deceive our selves and the truth is not in us we may not strain Scriptures beyond their scope nor may we say we are in every respect as Christ is either in himself or to the world or to beleevers Christ is God over all so are not the beleevers Christ is the second Adam a quickning spirit so are not the beleevers Christ is the only begotten Son of God so are not the beleevers on him The only begotten Son of God and they that beleeve on him are distinct and different persons Christ is the Saviour of the world so are not the beleevers not the Saviour though instruments of saving men Christ is the propitiation for our sins and for the sins of the whole world so are not the beleevers Christ is the Head and Husband of the Church so are not the beleevers but as Christ is so are the beleevers and in an eminent sense so were the Apostles in the world in the judgement knowledge account of the world as also in a measure set to be lights in the world But the main scope is that in respect of judgement account and estimate as Christ is so are we in this world for he says Herein is our love or love with us made perfect that we may have boldness in the day of judgement when we are judged of men here because as he is so are we in this world as to their receit approvement rejection or disapprovement we have our fellowship therein with him which also gives us strong consolation and confidence that when he comes to judge he will justifie us that were here condemned with him but what is this to their being sinless in themselves They add That they say not there is any perfection themselves without Christ who is their righteousness and they the righteousness of God in him Rep. That Christ is their righteousness c. is but their own testimony of themselves which we cannot receive because the true Christ whom we with the Apostles look for from heaven so to come again as they see him go up they say p. 10. they desire not the knowledge of nor doth their not saying that there is any perfection in them without Christ suffice to excuse them for its an Error to say that through Christ they have perfection in themselves so as to be perfectly sinless even the beleever in Christ though in Christ perfect is not as yet perfect in himself through Christ while here Paul though in Christ said he was not perfect nor had attained Phil. 3. 12 13. no not to be sinless Rom. 7. 20. 1 Tim. 1. 15. That Christ was manifested to take away our sin and in him is no sin we granted but added that its never said so of any else no where said by any of the Saints of themselves or of any of their brethren that they had no sin in them or were not sinners But they bid W. and F. mark how fairly we contradict our doctrine by telling its said indeed that he that abideth in him sinneth not and he that is born of God doth not commit or work sin because the seed of God abides in him neither can he sin that is commit work or yeeld up himself to sin because he is born of God which they render as inconsistent with our counting their maintaining a perfection of sinlesness in this life as a great error and say we would accuse the Saints or brethren with being sinners Rep. 1. Is this to accuse the Saints or brethren to observe what they have said or not said of themselves or one another If so then all are accusers of them that observe their sayings and so it seems they to avoid accusing of them observe them not If it be not then are they lyers and so not sinless that call our observing what they said or said not of themselves an accusing of them for we did no more in those sayings they have quoted as any impartial Reader may see 2. What we observed they said contradicts not what we noted they said not if they can find that they said of themselves or of their brethren that they had no sin in them or were not sinners they should produce it and prove us lyers if not then have they falsly charged us with self-contradiction These two contradict not John said He that abideth in him sinneth not and John said not he that abideth in him hath no sin in himself or is not in that respect a sinner or that any doth perfectly abide in Christ in every operation and act so as never to wander in his minde out of him Paul abode in Christ in the main and did not commit sin for he says It s no more I but sin that do it and yet Paul then had sin in him for he adds but sin that dwelleth in me Yea and said that with his flesh he served the law of sin and yet with his mind served the law of God Rom. 7. 20 25. Did Paul then contradict himself If yes then will we be counted contradictors of our selves also with him if no then neither do we contradict our selves but either they are ignorant of the nature of contradictions and so not perfect or else knowingly say falsly and so are vitious We then yet account what they maintain a great Error and yet say what the Apostle John said because he said not what they say that he that is born of God hath no sin in him but on the contrary If we say we have no sin in us we deceive our selves and yet they were born of God sure they beleeved Jesus to be the Christ and whosoever doth so is born of God 1 Joh. 5. 1. so that any that
us or with any that know and believe the Scriptures but they imply That if Adam was under a covenant of works do this and live then he should not have lived when he was in innocency till he had done some thing to merit life Rep. The mistake of this is shewed above in that that covenant was not for the first giving but for the continuance of his life in the favour of God and that though he could not merit by any works and obedience was to be continued upon his working that that was good sinlesly otherwise he was to die as appeared in that he lost it by his sinning and fell under death from which that covenant afforded no Redemption as the covenant in Christ doth so that we have not spoken ignorantly as they charge us but the ignorance is found with them that confound what covenant Adam was under with what was given to the people of Israel for convincement of their sin when fallen The covenant of works or Law as given to fallen man in the hand of a Mediator entred because of transgression till the seed came and so was given with subordination to the covenant of grace even the grace of God in the Redeemer from the fall and the death that came by sin as the naturall death also did though they erroneously imply the contrary and no marvaile for if that death be by sin then there must be a Redemption out of that death and so a Resurrection of the body from it which seeing they deny how can they grant it comes in by sin and that the seed should Redeem the creature out of it So that herein also their iniquity and corrupt judgement is seen and the root of their deniall that the naturall death came in by sin namely their deniall of the Redemption by Christ from that death and so the Resurrection of the body from it as after will more appear so that here Reader we have a complication of errours in them Thus much to their defence of their first errour about their sinlesness let us see how they defend their second Our second charge of them was about the personall body of Christ in which he suffered which that it is ascended into Heaven the Heavens without all men and above the clouds opposed to the visible earth we say they would not be brought to acknowledge touching which whether we questioned severall times altering our words as they charge us let them judge that read our book But they say W. and F. We contradict our selves because we say that they said the same body that suffered was glorified at Gods right hand in heaven Rep. Nay not unless by that body and that Heaven we say they meant as we expressed in our question which we said they did not and they in their book clearly manifest the truth of what we therein said so that it 's but another falshood added to the former to say that we are stifled in our own confusion and another yet to say that we charge them ignorantly with what they meant for here they plainly say W. and F. It appears we hold Christ hath two bodies in telling of a mysticall body and not receiving that as in answer that his body is the Church the fulness of him that filleth all in all and in that from our words they say we would have Christ to have a body besides or distinct from the fulness of God when as the Scripture doth not say that Christ hath two bodies or that his body is a body of flesh and bones without the blood in it as they say we told them Rep. See here Reader did we ignorantly charge them that by the body they said was glorified in Heaven they meant his Church do not they here speak it out while they tax us with holding Christ hath two bodies because we say he hath his personall body in which he suffered and which he shewed to have flesh and bones in it as a Spirit hath not And is it more absurd for Christ to have in two senses a body or two bodies in different senses of the word body then for the believer to have two heads in two distinct senses hath not George Whitehead and the rest each of them their personall head in which they have tongues with which they smite them that are more righteous then themselves And if they were believers in truth should they not have Christ for their head too And why then may not Christ have a body of his own as a man the man Christ Jesus in which he shewed his Disciples flesh and bones and yet have a body mysticall or body signifying a Church society or congregation as he is the Ruler and Governour of them and in them by his Spirit And doth not the Scripture set forth both these to us as distinct bodies though those very words two bodies it hath not was it his body the Church in which he shewed his Disciples his flesh and bones hands and feet that were pierced with Nailes and in which he bare our sins on the tree And was it his personal body for which Paul filled up the remainder of the sufferings Col. 1. 24. Is there not expresly the body of his flesh mentioned Col. 1. 22. In which he reconciled us to God his now glorious body in the Heavens to which the body of his Church is to be fashioned into the likeness of it Phil. 3. 20. 21. And the body his Church Col. 1. 24. See here how these men broadly deny Christ as man and onely make him a Spirit filling the Church and so the Spirit and the Church to be Christ and is not that all the Christ they confess now to be And whereas they say we would have Christ to have a body besides and distinct from the fulness of God Col. 2. 9. We say we acknowledge a body in which dwells the fulness of the Godhead which we say is distinct from the fulness of the Godhead that dwells in it and is distinct too from the Church the fulness it is not said of God as God but of him that filleth all in all that is of Christ as Mediator in the power of God Ephes 4. 9 10. Yet that his body is a body of flesh and bones in Heaven without blood in it we determined not but that that body of flesh and bones or in which he shewed his Disciples flesh and bones is ascâ—nded up into Heaven and he as in it is glorified against which they reason thâ—â— W. and F. It 's not proper to say a body of flesh and bones is in the Heavens as if it were in many places at once for Heavens are more then one a silly reason for by that reason it 's not proper to say a body of flesh and bones is in the waters or a stone sinks in the waters for waters are more then one Heaven and Heavens are indifferently used in the Singular or Plurall number as water and waters be as we
that he should even so come again in like manner as they had seen him go up into Heaven for that was in a body with flesh and bones in it and was visible to the eye till a cloud received him out from their sight and that this you deny appears in what you have said before of the Church being his body onely and by what follows viz. That as he who is the Word became flesh so when the days of his flesh were finished he was translated into his own glory which he had with his Father from eternity and so the second Adam is a quickning Spirit for in those words you imply that his flesh or the substance of his body in which he bare our sins is ceased and so that his humanity or what he took of the Virgin and of the seed of David after the flesh is gone so as he is onely a Spirit without any human body but how then did the Apostle oppose Christ in his ascending into Heaven unto David Acts 2. 34 45. For by that David ascended as much as Christ for his Spirit went to God when his body went to the dust Eccles 12. 7. And it seems by your sayings Christs body is not ascended but by the Apostles saying Christ is opposed to David in ascending in what he David ascended not whose body he says is the sepulchre therefore it follows that the body of Christ is ascended and is taken up into glory and is called the glorious body of Christ to which the believers body is to be conformed and changed into its likeness not into the Churches likeness sure which as yet is much of it in a suffering state and not a glorious body yea the Apostle tells us that of the fruit of Davids loines according to the flesh Christ is raised up to sit upon his throne Acts 2. 30. Is he the man Jesus the Mediator of God and us the propitiation for our sins as a Spirit merely Or is he the man Christ as he is God in us or a Spirit in Union with his Church And is so as he the propitiation for our sins then he bare his own sins in his body and is the propitiation for himself seeing the Church is he or part of him his body that was offered up for us It 's true the second Adam was made a quickning Spirit yet abides a man and hath a glorious body dictinct from his Church to which our body is to be conformed even as Adam was a living soul yet had a natural body W. and F. To your question you aske us viz. Whether we believe that body the saints upon earth do discern and which the world cannot discern is a body of flesh and bones yea or nay We answer it 's the body that was broken for us and is to be fed upon by us as is plain in 1 Cor. 11. 24. 29. not discerning the Lords body it 's that that is remembred and communicated with in the supper of the Lord which ordinance you have denied in your queries to us and that body was the same that Christ shewed to have flesh and bones in it and in which he went up into Heaven as before think you the Church was given and broken for us and is the breaking of the Church that which we are to have communion with and remember as the matter of our seeding in that Ordinance Though the body mysticall of Christ his Church is also to be discerned by the believers and is not by the world but if the Church be the body discerned which in the supper we have the communion of and which was broken for us then the flesh of Christ which we eat is something of the Church the flesh and substance of the Church and so the Church is to eate itself what confused stuff is this that is insinuated by you to us But by the reason you give off your propounding that question viz. seeing we own the believers or Church to be the body of Christ and plead for another body of Christ distinct from them it 's plain without contradiction that you deny the personall body of Christ to be and abide in the Heavens and to deny the man Jesus to be the Object of the believers faith and why shamed you to speak out this so broadly at the dispute Was you then more bashfull and are since grown more audacious and impudent W. and F. They say It 's grosse confusion to say that believers are Members of Christs flesh and bones and then to say they are not flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone as if Christ had two bodies of flesh and bone one of which the saints are not Members when the Apostle says as much as they were flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone in saying no man ever hated his own flesh but nourisheth it and cherisheth it even as the Lord the Church for we are Members of his body of his flesh and of his bones Ephes 3 30. Rep. Surely the grosse confusion is clearly in themselves here as is easie to demonstrate 1. They bely us in saying of us that we said what we said not viz. That believers are Members of Christs flesh and bones we said the Apostles preached that the believers are Members of his body of his flesh and of his bones neither the Greek nor the Latine as G. W. At least as to the Latine may know will bear that construction Members of his flesh and bones but Members of his body of that is out of his flesh and of or out of his bones ex carne ejus ex ossibus ejus 2. Is his Church flesh and bones said they not above that a body of flesh and bones cannot be said to be in the Heavens but if believers be a body of flesh and bones as they are if they be flesh of his flesh and bone of his bones must they not needs be then a body of flesh and bones in Heaven seeing they grant his body to be in the heavens yea to be the fulness of God that filleth all in all both in Heaven and earth is flesh and bones the fulness of God filling all in all both in Heaven and earth 'T is true that the Church consists of Members that each of them have personall heads and bodies of flesh and bones as men but are they flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone Is our flesh of Christs flesh and our bone of Christs bone How then hath not Christ flesh and bone of his own distinct from the body his Church if our flesh be flesh of his flesh and our bone be bone of his bone Doth not that phrase speak plainly of flesh and bones of his distinct from the Church which they say too is flesh and bone is not the confusion then in these men that deny Christ to have a body of flesh and bones distinct from his Church and then to say his Church is flesh of his flesh and bone of
had before the World was and his Body the Church makes him not a personal man as for eating his flesh what 's that His Flesh too must be something of his Body the Church except he hath two Fleshes on his Body and another of it they may grant he was a man and had Flesh but that proves not that they believe his humanity now to abide We said Christ is not really and personally in the believers as he is in Heaven against that they pretend to argue but leaving out the word personal they plead for a real presence onely and so plead not against our saying for we add the word personal to distinguish it from all other manner of real presences a real presence we deny not by faith in and with the believers though such a real and personal presence as is in Heaven we do Here then they Fight with their own shadow How T. M. owned the Blood of Christ to be the foundation of faith may be seen in the Answer to what they noted in their Epistle as his Principles It seems it is not the foundation of their Faith and so their faith is not the faith the Apostles preached for that was faith in Christs blood as the foundation and ground of it Rom. 3. 25. and so Christ by virtue of his blood shed but neither T. M. nor any of us made the present being of the Blood of Christ or simply its material substance the foundation of Faith and therefore they play the Sophisters in what they say And whereas they say that We now tell them that his blood was shed or powred out for the Remission of our sins and in the vertue of it is with the Father and so in and with Christ they say herein we confute our selves but in what that we could not assert where the material blood namely that issued out of his side is and yet we say that the virtues of it are with the Father and so in and with Christ Reply What gross deceit is here As if this is our answer now and was not so then Whereas we call God to witness and the people that were present that we told them then the virtues of it are in the person of Christ and so represent it in our Narrative as the answer we gave What moved them else to dispute against the virtues of Christs Blood being separable from its substance if we did not so answer And our answer then would not satisfie which it seems now doth because they cannot give a better So that G. W. and G. F. may rather be ashamed to insinuate to our hearers that we confute ourselves when we said the same things then that now they would bring against us as cross to what we said then we for any thing we have said to them nor are the not being of the blood materially in his Body had we so said and its being in the vertues of it with the Father and so in Christ at all contradictory to them that know what contradictions mean Why did they not charge us with falshood rather in saying in our Narrative that we gave that for an answer that we did not if they know in their Consciences we did not then answer to and if they know the contrary why do they dissemble it W. and F. They quarrel with us for saying That the dying and death of Christ is the foundation of our faith and yet it is not alwayes in being that is he is not alwayes dying and that the blood is not simply the foundation of our faith and then tell us that we preach a foundation of our faith that is not in being whereas the foundation of faith is Christ who is ever in being Reply See here their wilful fraud for whereas we said the dying of Christ is the foundation or of the foundation of our faith see else our book these words or of the foundation they willingly leave out And whereas we added to what they repeat viz. to that the blood of Christ is not simply the foundation we added but Christ himself by vertue of it as it was shed for us and he raised from the dead and he abides for ever They have concealed those words which had they repeated they had had no ground for their cavil Are not these meer Cavellers and forgers then that durst so wilfully create cavels against us where was none by curtailing and misrepresenting our sayings They say As for what he acted in his sufferings that was done that through his sufferings and works men might believe in him c. Reply What doth this but in other terms though but in deceit for that faith is that which is to be rooted up as not grounded upon Christs appearing in them that they might know him as he was before the world was and so to Salvation acknowledge what they would cavil at for what doth this differ from being the foundation of faith if they were done that through them Men might believe in him It seems without them then no ground of believing of him They say They did not blame us for not asseâ—â—ing the blood shed not in his body but for calling it the foundation The former part of which appears false by their often twitting us with it and yet it seems they do not assert otherwise of it then we did save that they believe no personal body for it to be in as for calling it the foundation of faith we did it not if either of us did it in opposition to and beside Christ but as that through which Christ is the foundation meaning by blood his sufferings to the shedding of his blood nay indeed his sufferings may in some sence be said to be the foundation of faith and Christ himself the foundation of his Church who are in that faith W. and F. They say T. M. his instance for Christs being in Heaven with a body of flesh and bones without blood in it was that we do not read that there was any blood in Adams body in Paradise for which say they he might as well have said that then Adams body had no life in it and such a body they say we imagine Christs to be whenas the blood is the life and all Nations are made of one blood Act. 17. 26. and they ask if we believe there was no blood left in Christs body when he was crucified Reply T. M. brought forth indeed such an observation as a conception or thought of his which rendred it probable to his apprehension that a glorified spiritual body needs not the being of material blood in it that he reads not that Adams body had blood in it before the fall in which he conceives what before was more purely spirits was changed into blood and therein the body became mortal but this is but his private conception which he gives not forth as an Oracle to be believed as an Article of Faith We read that Paul himself in some things propounded to him gives
their deceits into light that people might be warned of them and so avoid them To their foolish Questions in their Post-script we say First That they begin their questions with a falshood for we are not called Moorians or Manifestarians that we know of nor are so for we call no man our Father or Master after that forbidden manner nor own we any such callings as they do that own themselves Calvinists Lutherans c. nor are we Authors of what they say we hold forth in either the first or second branch of it The first is Pauls flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God nor can corruption inherit incorruption And as to the second that flesh and bones may We say not that flesh and bones as natural in natural bodies may we say that that Body of Christ which had Flesh and Bones after the Resurrection of it is taken up into heaven and is in heaven and the Scripture is clear for it Luke 24. 39 40. 51 52. what change or transmutation further it had in its ascension and Glory we know not but we believe that as the Apostles see him taken up into Heaven and they see him taken up in that Body in which was Flesh and Bones so he shall come again in like manner Acts 1. 11. their reproaching us for that faith shall not drive us from it because they are none of the True Apostles and Prophets nor if they were might we give credit to them bringing a contrary Doctrine to what we have from the Holy Apostles received Gal. 1. 8 9. Quest. 1. THey ask if Eliahs flesh and bones could enter into Gods Kingdom when he was taken up and if his blood could not Then when where and how and by whom was his blood taken and separated from his flesh and bones and what is become of it Ans Secret things belong to God things revealed to us and to our children that we might believe and do them Whether Eliahs body is in Heaven or in what form or manner we neither read it nor can determin nor they neither Quest 2. And what is it that hinders the blood that it cannot enter the Kingdom as well as the flesh and bones which ye say may is the transgression of the blood greater then the transgression of the flesh and bones And shall the flesh and bones be redeemed from corruption and shall not the blood What is the cause For though the Lord doth what he pleaseth yet doth he do any thing without a cause Ans These are prophane Scoffs and Reproaches against Gods Truths that the body which is sown a natural body shall be raised a spiritual body after the pattern of Christ who is the first fruits of them that sleep we believe and that the Body of Christ raised had Flesh and bones in it we read and believe also and that flesh and blood shall not inherit the Kingdom of God we believe too but prophane and vain bablings we are to shun which will increase to more ungodlinesse and eat like a Canker especially the Word and Doctrine of such as Hymeneus and Philetus who erred concerning the Truth and said the Resurrection is past or made already and that 's these mens error as above shewed when they said The coming of Christ spoken of 1 Thes 4. 15 16. in which the dead are to be raised was while the Apostles believers lived and remained Therefore these words and prophane bablings of theirs we and all people are to avoid being wise to sobriety knowing that God hath no cause higher then himself and his own good pleasure in what he doth and that he gives not an account of all his matters and what he keeps secret is not for us to search Quest 3 Whether do you own that Doctrine that when Christ appeared amongst his Disciples after his Resurrection when the doors were shut John 29. 19. that then his body being spiritualized it glided in at the key-hole of the door Which Doctrine Thomas Moore Senior hath formerly preaobed as some hath affirmed who heard him Answ No but we owne that this is a slander raised maliciously against Thomas Moor Senior either of their own heads or by some that render him evil for good and hatred for his love to whom appertains and upon whom will fall Judas his curse and portion if they repent not mentioned Psal 109. 5 6 7. c. Quest 4. And where do the Scriptures say that flesh and bones may inherit the Kingdom Heaven Answ Where do we say so or in any tearms but what the Scriptures own The Scriptures say Christ shall so come even in like manner as his Disciples see him go up and he was taken up in that Body in which was flesh and bones as before which Body is now his Glorious Body further we affirm not or inquire not Quest 5. And whereas you John Horn and Thomas Moor in page 16. say That Sathan doubtlesse may reprove of some sins and presse to some duties now have you not herein shewed your selves to be ministers of Sathan and not of Christ c Answ No no more then Paul was in saying Satan himself is transformed into an Angel of light 2 Cor. 11. 13 14. sure an Angel of light will reprove of sin and presse to duty and if Satan do not so as to form or outside at least he is not in the form of an Angel of Light Whereas they ask further What duties or any things that are duties doth Satan press men to bidding us answer directly or let shame cover our faces which they say will at length come upon us for our deceits We answer To such duties as in which his Ministers may be transformed into Ministers of Righteousnesse which they could not be if not Zealous for some things that are in their place and order in duties 2 Cor. 11. 14. as to be diligent to go up and down and preach Righteous Works or VVorks of Righteousnesse together with their own evil mixtures and to evil unrighteous ends that he might by drawing them from gross evils as the Pharisees their Proselites from Heathenism and gross idolatry make them more Children of hell by spiritual iniquity and wickedness and so more serviceable to his designs and so he presses the Quakers to reprove many fins and evils which indeed is a duty ought to be done in Gods way but as they do it they serve Sathan in it making it a means to beguile unstable souls to their delusion The Lord stop their mouths as he hath promised in Psal 63. 11. A multitude of Questions under 26. Heads sent by George Whitehead and since owned by him and by John Whitehead and George Fox the younger as sent by them all to John Horn and Thomas Moor junior for this they say in their pretended Answer to us subscribed by all the three that they sent queries in Manuscript to John Horn and Thomas Moor see the latter end of their 33. page meaning these they
are as followeth For John Horn and Thomas Moor both Teachers who disputed against George Whitehead at Lin the 15. th day of the 7th month 59. A few questions of concernment for them or any that own them to answer directly 1. WHether do you own that Christ hath two Bodies one in Heaven and another on Earth yea or nay 2. Whether the body of Christ which is the sulnesse of God whereof the Saints are members is a Body of flesh and bones in the Heavens yea or nay 3. Whether did the body of flesh and bones wherein Christ suffered descend from Heaven into the lower parts of the Earth yea or nay Seeing no man hath ascended up to Heaven but the Son of man which came down from Heaven And it is the same that descended into the lower parts of the Earth that ascended far above all Heavens that be might fill all things Eph. 4. 9 10. Psal 68. 18. 4. What and where are the lower parts of the Earth whereinto Christ descended from his Father 5. And if he which descended into the lower parts of the Earth be a person of flesh and bones which ascended far above all Heavens what is that place he is in far above all Heavens which is not Heaven 6. Whether do you believe that all the Heavens are local places one above another and above the Firmament called Heaven yea or nay 7. Can a body of flesh and bone be both in the Heavens and far above them all and fill all things at one and the same time yea or nay 8. Seeing Thomas Moor did not own that Christs body is a carnal body in Heaven how is it that you say his body is a body of flesh and bones or a humane body without blood in it is not a fleshly body Carnal 9. Can any locall place containe that Glory which Christ had with the Father before the World was wherein he is Glorified 10. Where or how came Christ into the house where his Disciples were met after his Resurrection the doors being shut John 20. 19. 26. Have not some of you said that then his body being Spirituallized it glided in at the Key-hole of the door for so it hath been spoken concerning some of your way 11. Whether the same Christ who in the dayes of his flesh suffered persecution whose body was subject to hunger and afliction be not made a quickening Spirit 1 Cor. 15. 45. And yet his flesh and blood is so nigh to every true believer that his Flesh is his meat indeed and his Blood is his drink indeed 12. And if the Blood of Christ that was shed be the drink indeed and the purger of the Conscience where is that blood if not in Christs flesh as you affirmed Seeing that men must drink the Blood of Christ as well as eat his Flesh or else they have no life in them 13. And was the Blood of Christ that was shed seperate from his Body and then bearing Record in the Earth when John wrote these words in 1 John 5 8. 14. And how can the Blood of Christ either cleanse away from sin or give life to any if the Life of Christ be not in it as Thomas Moor affirmed 15. How many comings of Christ do you own seeing you yet have his second coming without sin unto Salvation to look for 16. What are these seeds that must every one have its own Body in the Resurrection and whether are they Natural or Spiritual 17. And must not every seed have a body of its own nature 18. And whether the wicked upon whom after Death Judgement is come whose souls are in Hell must afterward come out of Hell again to receive a second Judgement 19. Whether the receiving Bread and Wine to shew the Lords Death be to continue an Ordinance in the Church till the end of the World yea or nay 20. And whether doth the receiving Bread and Wine alone without an outward Passeover really figure forth the Death of Christ 21. And how must the life of Christ be shewen forth and when if People must receive Bread and Wine as a continuing Ordinance in this Life alwayes to shew forth the Death of Christ 22. What is your ground for sprinkling the Children of them you count believers have you ever a command from God or evident example for it if you have shew it 23. Whether do you own such Teachers as take Tythes or Preach for hire or for gifts and rewards yea or nay 24. What is the Soul of man which the Word of God is to save and what is the difference between the Soul and the Spirit seeing the word of God divides them asunder 25. Whether men must be justified by the same Righteousness of Christ in them which sanstifies them yea or nay 26. What is that Light with which Christ lighteth every man that cometh into the world which Thomas Moor said is both Natural and Spirituall Name one Light that every man is lighted with that is both Natural and Spiritual or else let your silence be an acknowledgement of your Ignorance touching the Light and that you have confuted your selves for Thomas Moor would not acknowledge that every man hath a Spiritual Light in him or is inlightned with a Spiritual Light But that every man should in due time be enlightned with such a Light when the seed is sown or by the Preaching of the Gospel what says he then to this the Gospel is preached in every Creature under Heaven Answer directly in simplicity without evading from these things propounded to you as you did evade and cavil at the dispute and Thomas Moor severall times fled from his own words and John Horn when you could not answer to our Question where the Blood of Christ is which you say is the foundation of Faith in his deceit asked us the same question again leave off such deceit for shame and come down to the simplicity of God in you and speak not evil of the things you know not And if you answer these questions send or give your answer to some of our friends in Lin to be conveyed to me Who am a friend to the Truth But a witnesse against all Deceit Hypocrisie and dead formality that is among you George Whitehead An Answer to the Questions forementioned THese Questions give so full intimation of their Antichristian Spirit and give us such occasion to discover it to others and so evidence the Truth of God in the great things of his Doctrine against their endeavours to make it void That since all the three forementioned have owned them as sent by them all We have judged it seasonable and tending to the profit of many that they may be saved to make them with this answer publick which answer is owned by John Horn and Thomas Moor senior and Thomas Moor junior And in it we desire the Readers to note that we direct not our speech to them because they have been already discovered and proved deceivers and
himself handle me and see that is I my self For the Word was made flesh and therefore even that flesh or body could not be holden of Death Luke 24. 39. John 1. 14. with Acts 22. 24. 31. c. Or 2. A man may have other things or persons as relations to him by marriage Covenant or by Blood So a man is said to have his wife and the woman her husband 1 Cor. 7. 12. 13. likewise instructed to have one another according to such covenant and relation ver 2. So persons are said to have children or nephews as relation in the flesh though neither is the husband the wife nor the wife the husband nor is the child the father or the father the child c. But these are distinct relations and distinctly related to and so had by each other as well as distinct persons In some answerable sence it may be said Jesus Christ hath his Body the Church as his spouse and children and they have him as their Head Husband Father and Lord in that Covenant and Relation that is in the unity of the Spirit as appears by those comparisons and instructions from them Ephes 5. 23. 32. with Chap. 4. 4. 6. c. And yet Christ is not the Church but the Head and Husband of it and so neither is he who is the head of his body the Church A body in such a sence of himself alone without his members that are so Mystically and Spiritually I say not in such a sence as they joyned to him as their head are said to be his Body Whence as he in his own personal body now glorified is the head of a body in the last sence namely of his body the Church in such a sence and in such consideration of him they are said to be his fulnesse who yet receives nothing from them but filleth all in all But he as the head of the body and so that his body in the last sence is made up and compleated of them by what they receive from him and are made in him Ephes 1 22. 23. And so neither are they any of them or all of them together the Christ the head of the Body or Husband of the Church But his Body Church or Spouse as joyned to him Spiritually and by Faith and members thereof in particular 1 Cor. 12. 12. 13. 27. Eph. 5. 23. 25. 32. The having each other in this sence is not such as confounds the distinction of persons or relations or makes the one the other 3. One may also truly be said to have things or persons which yet he hath not in such relation nor are so related to him and that either in a propriety or interest in them by right of purchase gift or otherwise or in possession And so according to these divers sences in which these words are used we might answer to this first question whether Christ hath two bodies In some sences yea and in others nay But for the help of others we answer more fully thus 1. If by bodies be understood personal bodies and also by having them be meant as in the last mentioned sence in which one may be said to have things or persons as we are left at liberty to take any sence in which the words are used whether they so propounded it out of weaknesse or wickednesse we will not determine then thus we answer Christ hath an innumerable multitude of bodies as well as souls even the bodies and spirits of all men are his and of right in his dispose For 1. He hath interest in them by creation for all things were made by him and for him John 1. 3. Col. 1. 16 17. and by redemption for he gave himself a ransom for all and hath bought them all even them that deny him he hath redeemed them from the curse of the Law to be under his Government dispose and judgement and by means thereof 2. He hath the dispose and dominion of them committed to him for the Father judgeth no man but hath committed all judgement to the Son and hath given him authority to execute judgement also because he is the Son of man All things are delivered unto him of his Father even the Heathen for his inheritance and the utmost parts of the Earth for his possession And therefore also 3. He shall inherit all Nations yea all shall be raised and judged by him at the last day for to this end Christ both dyed rose and revived that he might be Lord of both dead living whether we live therefore or die we are the Lords 1 Tim. 2. 6. 2 Pet. 2. 1 Gal. 3. 13. with Rom. 5 18 Col. 1. 20. John 12. 31 32. and 5. 22. 27 28. Math. 11. 27. Psal 2 6 7 8. Rom. 14. 7 8 9. c. who can number the bodies he hath in this sence on the Earth surely even these deceivers that privily deny the Lord that bought them and those deceived by them are all his and shall be judged by him even by the man Christ Jesus by whom God hath ordained to judge the World in Righteouenesse whereof he hath given assurance unto all men in that he hath raised him from the dead Job 12. 16. John 5. 22. 29. Acts 17. 31. And as for the bodies of those that with the heart believe on him they are his in a more peculiar manner even members of him as is before shewed But 2. If by Bodies be understood personal Bodies and by having be meant as in the first mentioned sence his having them as of the essence or being of himself Then our answer to the question is nay There are not divers personal bodies of Christ not two that may each properly and peculiarly be called the Body of Christ but there is one which is more then these men believe and that which they privily endeavour to deny in these queries and he hath it and continueth in it for ever And it is the same and no other that was prepared for him in the womb of the Virgin in which he appeared once in the last ages of the World to put away sin by the Sacrifice of himself And in this his own Body himself bore our sins on the Tree and being raised from the dead the third day is now passed into the Heavens and there received by the Father till the times of the restitution of all things and because this man continueth for ever therefore he hath an unchangeable priesthood is now appearing in the presence of God in the Heaven it self for us the man Christ Jesus the Mediator between God and man and great high Priest over the House of God even Jesus the Son of God passed into the Heavens for us For if he were on Earth he were not such a Priest as becomes us to have 1 Tim. 2. 5. 6. Heb. 7. 23. 26. and 8. 1. 3 4 and 9 24 and 10. 5. 12. Again 3. If Bodies be understood in the 2d sence of the word body mentioned
bodily Col. 2. 9. with Capter 1. 19. Not that his body is the fulnesse of God or of the God-head but that dwells in him bodily that so of his fulnesse we might receive And of his Body the Church he saith it is his fulnesse namely the fulness of Christ as he is the Head of a Body viz. of an union of many persons in one Body now although that head be God blessed for ever and he and the Father are one though distinct in respect of the manner of their being in the God-head and as so distinct as Christ is the Head of the Church so the Head of Christ is God 1 Cor. 11. 3. So although Christ who is the Head of the Church be God yet the Church is not said to be his fulnesse simply as he is God but as he is the Head of the Church and that is as he is God man in one Person the Man Christ Jesus now raised from the dead and continuing ever with the the Father even as so considered he is the Fountain of all fulnesse for us and filleth all in all compare Ephes 1. 20. 23. with chap. 4. 8 9 10 c. and Col. 1. 13. 19. and 2. 9. 19. Heb. 7. 23 24 25. as so considered he is the Head of the Church and as he in that his personal body is the Head and Husband so the Church is his fulnesse even as Eve was Adams or as the Natural Body is the Heads fulnesse the Church is that in which is the fulnesse or compleating of him as he is the Head of a body viz. of an union of many persons in one body for so as we have shewed before he could not have a Body in such a sence had he not members many Persons united to himself as their Head Governour and Husband Further also their Querie is perverse and corrupt in that it intimately charges us as calling the Personal Body of our Lord Jesus Christ now Glorified a Body of flesh and bones which is a slander for it is not our expression but theirs used oft by way of derision and reproach of him and though possibly we may sometimes have let it pass without consideration or particular notice of it in some discourse that may have passed between us yet the expression we own not but say with the Scripture That the Personal Body of Christ hath flesh and bones hands and feet even the same in which he once suffered for sins the just for the unjust truly called the Body of his flesh and in that very body he is now glorified yea this we have divers times asserted to them in answer to such their deriding expressions and still do assert that the Personal Body of our Lord Jesus Christ for which we contend is not a body without a spirit which a body of flesh and bones may be yet we are so far from being ashamed of the Words of Christ and bearing the reproach cast upon his Glorious Body by them That as we know and believe as the Scripture hath said so we confesse that Jesus Christ was made of the Seed of David after the Flesh Rom. 1. 3. made of a woman Gal. 4. 4. and so took part of flesh and blood with mankind that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death that is the Devil c. Heb. 2. 14 15 16. and so he dyed as man mortal but he rose again the same body spiritual and immortal his Body not a spirit though spiritual yet truly a body yea the body of a man and in that sence humane The same he that dyed and was buried is risen and ascended having flesh and bones even such as before his ascention was seen and handled by his Disciples and so himself saith of himself and did walk speak and eat before them and shewed them his hands and his feet to confirm the same Luke 24. 36. 44. John 20. and 21. And while he blessed them and they beheld him he was parted from them and carried up into Heaven Luke 2. 50 51. Acts 1. 9 10 11. And as his Disciples that saw were blessed so he hath also pronounced them blessed that have not so seen and yet believe John 20. 29. 1 Pet. 1. 8. so that though we call not his personal body a body of flesh and bones yet believing his sayings we are not ashamed to confesse he hath flesh and bones though not carnal or mortal like mortal men whole life is in then blood and may be let out with a Sword and must die But his though humane yet spiritual and immortal and because of that suffered and done by him in that Body in which he hath overcome death and so received gifts in the man it s by way of Eminency and Peculiarity called his flesh and his bones and he in that body is in the Heaven of Heavens nor is there any but the Spirit of Satan in Antichrist that will move any to deny or reproach this as these do From all which considerations we refuse this Question as thus stated by them as foolish unlearned corrupt and prophane But yet for the help of the weak if it be queried what is that his Body of which he is said to be the Head and which is said to be his fulnesse as he is the Head Ephes 1. 23. We answer Not his Body in the first sence but in the second viz. not such an union of many Members in one Body as in which they are all united in one person or personal body but the union of many persons believers or Persons so imputed that have each a distinct personal Body in one mystical body Church or Congregation under that one head who hath also a distinct personal body of his own in which he is the head and also the Saviour of that his Body the Church see the Text Ephes 1. 22 23. with chap. 5. 23. 28. If it be further Queried whether the Body of Christ in this sence or his Body the Church have flesh and bones it s already answered 1. He who is the Head of it hath a distinct Body that hath flesh and bones now glorified in which he is the Head 2. The members also that are living on the earth have each their distinct personal bodies that have flesh and bones yea they are yet partakers of flesh and blood in weaknesse and mortality and their bodies vile Phil. 3. 21. Rom. 8. 10. 23. Heb. 2. 14. If yet further any Querie whether this Body be in Heaven it is likewise already answered The Head who is their forerunner is already entered and so they in him as in their head and with him by the faith of the operation of God who hath raised him he saith not them his own personal Body not theirs from the dead see Col. 2. 12. with Ephes 1. 20 21 22. and Chap. 2. 6. Heb. 6 19 20. with Chap. 4. 3. But they in their particular bodies are not so entered but while at home
Heaven it self the Heaven or Heavens of heavens where he is received till the times of restitution now to appear in the presence of God for us Acts. 2. 30. 32. 34. and 3. 21 Heb 9 24 Again if we take in a figurative sence of the word Heavens as included in that Ephes 4. 10. that is to say if we understand them to signifie not only the Heavens or heavenly places but those that dwell in them in any sence one or other as well we may yet in saying he is ascended far above all Heavens in such a sence namely exalted in state and dignity far above all Principality and Power and Might and Dominion and every name that is named c. as Ephes 1. 21. We or the Scripture do not therein say either that he is exalted above the Father that exalted him thither or that because he is exalted far above all principality and power and every name c. Therefore he is set in no principality or power or hath no name But that God hath given him a name above every name as Phil. 2. 8 9 c. Namely above every other name and so that he is gone into Heaven and is on the Right hand of God Angels Authorities and Powers yea all things being made subject to him by the Father but still its evident he is excepted that made all things subject 1 Pet. 3. 22. with 1 Cor. 15. 27. We may see the darknesse and confusion of the Light in them by its dictating to them and leading them into such corrupt and foolish inferences as that because he is ascended on High far above all Heavens therefore the place he is in must be no Heaven The same as to the nature or manner of infering with such as these that follow That because God preferred Israel above all Nations on the Earth which he had made Deut. 14. 2. and 26 19. Therefore they were no Nation on the Earth or of his making And so because the Lord is above and greater then all gods Exod. 18. 11. Psal 97. 9. and 135. 5. Therefore he is not God who sees not the weaknesse and corruption of such reasoning If any say that Israel in other places is called a People and a Nation And the Lord in other places is called God We answer It s as evident that the place or places on high where the raised body of Christ entered and is received and remaineth until the Restitution of all things is in other places frequently called heaven the Heavens the Heaven it self as in the Scriptures forementioned and others But it may seem their understandings told them a body must have a place and therefore that they might privily deny the being of his personal and now Glorious Body and so that this man continues for ever they devised this inference to see if they could drive us into a confusion about the place where he is as also the two following questions Quest 6. Whether do you believe that all the Heavens are local places one above another and above the Firmament which is called Heaven Yea or nay Answ This querie hath three parts To the first whether all the Heavens are local places We answer if places then locall seeing local signifies places To the 2d part whether one above another We answer all the Heavens cannot be one above another for those that be the lower cannot be above the higher but there are lower and higher there are heavens and the Heaven of heavens as we shewed before Yea Stephen being full of the Holy Ghost saw the Heavens opened and the Son of man standing on the Right hand of God in Heaven Acts 7. 55 56. To the last part whether above the Firmament called Heaven If they mean whether they be all above it we Answer Nay seeing that is one Heaven and it is not above it self But if they would querie whether any be above it We Answer yea And might shew it in that Psal 8. 1. 3. Deut. 33. 26. with other Scriptures But all this question upon question is nothing to the purpose as to the thing aimed at by them nor would it if it had been more properly propounded or stated as to say If this be the question whether the word heaven or heavens be alwayes used in a proper sence to express to us some place or places of Glory above the Earth and one above and exceeding another and if to this we answer as well we might Nay the words are sometimes used figuratively to expresse to us the dwellers in heaven of divers sorts and degrees as likewise we finde other proper names of places frequently used figuratively as the house for the houshold c. And sometimes Metaphorically What then Doth it follow hence that such words are never used in Scripture in their direct and proper sence or that they are not so used and so to be understood in those Scriptures that treat of the matter under consideration Is this a good Argument That if it be not evident that the word heaven or heavens doth alwayes signifie some place or places of Glory distinct from and above the Earth That then it must not be so understood when Christs being ascended up and gone into heaven is spoken of And that this is the thing they drive at in this and the last question is evident But what their arguing availes to it let the Reader judge Their question but that they have a designe in hand they are ashamed of or afraid to discover should have been plain and direct to the businesse viz. What is meant by heaven or heavens when Christs ascending up thither or being gone or taken up into them and received and set down there on the Right hand of power is spoken of as Heb. 8. 1. and 4. 14. and 9. 24. Mark 16. 19. Luke 24. 51. Acts 3. 21. with other like Scriptures And to this our answer is that then by heaven or heavens is meant a place or places on high distinct from other places yea distinct from and above the Earth and these heavens within our sight or that we are capable of considering sensibly in our mind Yea though as we have said where it is said he is ascended on high far above all heavens there a figurative sence of heavens is included yet in such places where his being gone up into heaven and there received and set on the Right hand of Majestie even in the heavens is spoken of there such a figurative sence cannot be included as in the other saying forementioned for he is not in such a sence received into or being in the dwellers in heaven as he is said to be received into and to be in heaven it self 1. Not in believers here on Earth who having their conversation in heaven may yet be said Spiritually to dwell in heaven But Christ is not in or among them bodily in his Glorious body but Spiritually and by Faith nor doth he so appear in them with or among them
intention of this query with the former is to deny the being of the perscnall Body of our Lord Jesus Christ or that this Man continues for ever so as the former priests did not by reason of Death And the Argument here from which they would urge that denyall is because it is said he is ascended that he might fill all things but a body of Flesh and Bones cannot be in divers places at once and so not fill all things therefore hence they would imply That he hath no such body the corruption and folly of both which their implyed denyal and Argument intimated is already manifest in what hath been said to their deriding expressions a body of flesh and bones And in the answers already given and in what hath been said to this query where is shewed that Christ of the fruit of Davids loyns after the flesh who hath a Glorious personall body having flesh and bones in heaven with the Father he may be in divers sences in divers places at one and the same time and so may fill all things though as to his personal bodily presence he is not on Earth while the Heavens receive him which is till the times of restitution of all things So while yet we have not Jesus Christ in his personal Bodily presence with us yet he is in his Gratious and Spirituall presence and vertues in the hearts Societies and works of them that wait for him And in his inspections influencies and operations he is every where and so in a sence filling all things now though also in a more full and Glorious sence he shall fill and fulfill all things as before hinted in his Season And surely such a question concerning him whom they reproachfully call a Body of flesh and Bones as this can He c. Doth very much manifest not only the Insidelity but also the absurdity and gross sensuallity of the Interrogators For is not the visible Sun in its body set or fixed in the Firmament of heaven a place above the heavens where fowles fly and Clouds ride And yet so Glorious in Light Brightness and extention of Light that it fills with its light and influences the heavens and the earth and all in it and yet this is but one of his creatures that hath its being glory and standing off and from him for by him were all things made that were made and in him was Life even life from the dead by way of Redemption even from the beginning of mans need of it by vertue of what he had then undertaken to do and to become for fallen mankinde And that Life in him was the light of men the Fountain Original cause and producer of all that is truly Light and good unto them for by him do all things consist even by him as now in that body in the fulness of time prepared for him he is the first begotten from the dead For so is he glorified with the Fathers own Selfe in that his own personal body in which he bore our sins on the Tree that he even the Son of man the man Christ Jesus is the Image of the invisible God the brightnesse of his Glory the expresse Image of his Person upholding all things by the word of his Power John 1. 1. 3. 14. Col. 1. 14 15 16. 19 20. Heb. 1. 1. 3. c. And cannot this man who is King of Righteousness and King of Peace Heb. 7. 2. An hiding place from the wind and a Covert from the Tempest as Rivers of Water in a dry place as the shadow of a great Rock in a weary land Isa 32. 2 Immeasurably full of Grace and Truth Spirit Power and Authority John 1. 14. and 3. 34. Mat. 28. 18. Glorified with the Fathers own self so as in him dwells the fulnesse of the Godhead Bodily John 17. 4 5. Col. 2. 9. Cannot he we say in that Glorified body of his be in the Heaven of heavens that is above all other heavens and in the fulnesse of his Power Excellency and Glory above all Heavens and by his Glorious all-seeing Spirit discern and see into allthings even the secrets of every heart and so into all the evil thoughts and windings in the Imaginations of these men striving to mar his vizage Is he a God at hand and not afar off can any hide himself in secret places that he should not see him doth not he fill Heaven and Earth Jer. 23. 23 24. with Heb. 4. 12 13 14 15. Doth he not by the Power and fulnesse he hath received in the man rule for ever Oh let not the Rebellious exalt themselves Psal 66. 7. with John 5. 22. 27. 1 Pet. 3. 22. Doth he not by the fulness of gifts received in the man and for men even send forth Spirit to the Rebellious and load us with his benefits Psal 68. 18 19 20. with Eph. 4 8 9 10. Is not the Earth upheld by him and the Inhabitants thereof Psal 75. 3. with Col. 1. 16. 17. and Heb. 1. 3. Is he not nigh to all in giving them their being Life Breath and Moving and his good Spirit therein discovering his gooduesse instructing and moving to Repentance that they might seek the Lord Acts 17. 27. 28. 30. 31. John 1. 9. 10. c. and 8. 12. and 12. 46. c. And is not he by his Spirit with the Riches influences of his Grace in unfeigned believers and so in and unto them the hope of Glory Col. 1. 26. 27. Surely he is and doth all this in every age and so is filling all things and will in his time fill or fulfill all things as aforesaid And had these men been of any judgement concerning the Faith they would not have propounded this query with the former or following But against what Christ what Gospel and what Faith they fight their queries discover to those who have their Spiritual sences exercised 8. Que. Seeing Thomas Moor did not own that Christs Body is a carnal body in Heaven how is it that you say his Body is a body of Flesh and Bones or a Humane Body without Blood in it Is not a Fleshly body Carnal Answ 1. That the Body of Christ in Heaven is not a Carnal body in Scripture sence yea that it was not a carnal body when on Earth we did and still do assert for Carnal as used in Scripture when applyed to man signifyes sinful flesh or Natural sinfulnesse and emptinesse of good in mind or members and so he was not made though for a time in the likeness of sinful flesh Rom. 7. 14. 23. with Chap. 8. 3. Phil. 2. 7. Heb. 4. 15. 2. As for their reproach in saying that we say that its a body of Flesh and Bones without Blood in it It s already answered we say a body having Flesh and Bones though not now weak and mortal as ours whose natural bodily weaknesse and mortality is signified by those expressions Flesh and Blood when put together of which he also was
And if to have flesh and to be fleshly be not the same nor doth the latter at all necessarily follow upon the former in mortal men How durst these men speak of them as necessarily one in him who is raised from the dead in the Glory of the Father and who saw no corruption as if his having flesh and bones should render him a fleshly man or body but that they are vainly puft up with their fleshly mind not holding the head c. Yea 3. Neither is his body a fleshly body nor any where by us or the Scripture so called for though sometime as we shewed it was subject to the weakness and infirmities of the flesh that are natural to us from fallen Adam and so in some sence might be said to be a natural body though he was therein made that which naturally he was not and that in a supernatural way as aforesaid and was therein as alwayes perfectly without sin yet taking part with us of flesh and blood that he might dye our death c. as before is hinted yet now being raised from the dead even that body of his flesh which God hath raised up from the dead is now in Heaven with the Father a spiritual heavenly and glorious body so as yet the bodies of any of his members on earth are not But their bodies also that now are vile and see corruption as his never did even the same that are now living on the earth or sleeping in the dust shall be raised by him in the first Resurrection at his appearing not carnal bodies or vile and corruptible as now they are but fashioned into the likeness of his glorious body when this corruptible shall put on incorruption and this mortal immortality Quest 9. Can any local place contain that Glory which Christ had with the Father before the world was wherein he is glorified Ans Nay but the heavenly places or places on high where he is received till the times of restitution may contain his Glorious Body though they cannot contain the glory wherewith he is glorified and which he possesseth therein for place cannot contain infinite power wisdom eternity glorious Majesty c. The heaven heaven of heavens cannot contain that glory of the Fathers own self which is the glory that Christ had with him before the world was and wherewith he is now glorified in the Body of his flesh how much less can earthen Vessels or Clay Tabernacles contain that Glory that is set above the Heavens we say the heavens cannot contain it so that it should not Shine forth and operate in heaven and in earth and in all places yet the heaven is his Throne the earth his footstool yea the heaven of heavens is that place of his habitation from whence he beholdeth all things and doth whatsoever he pleaseth in heaven and in earth and in all places 1 Kings 8. 27 Isa 66. 1. Eccles 5. 2. Psal 33. 13 14. And so the personal body of Christ in which he bore our sins on the Tree being now raised from the dead is received and taken up into heaven set down on the right hand of the Majesty and Power of God in the heavens and not now on the earth personally yet the heavens cannot contain his Glory from Shining forth to us and operating in and with us and in all things and places in the influences thereof because the fulness of the God-head dwells in him bodily and all power is given unto him in heaven and in earth yea because he is in heaven with the father therefore he is able to fill all things with the fruits of his mediation and influences of his power for if he were now on earthor had not been received up into heaven set down on the right hand of Majesty upon his finishing the Works the Father gave him to do on earth and offering up that spotless body of his flesh to God he could not have been such a Priest and such a mighty King of Righteousness Prince and Saviour for us and to us And therefore those that deny his being in heaven in that body of his flesh his now glorious body in which he is the head distinct from every body and spirit of his members and as their fore-runner entred before them as these Spirits in all their discourse and perverse disputings against it at least privily do and have done they do therein as much deny that Jesus is the Christ and so are the great lyars and Antichrists foretold to come in the last dayes that deny the Father and the Son And surely in frameing this query to that purpose not onely their wicked enmity against the man Christ Jesus as in the former appears but also in this their brutish folly to which God justly leaves them is so made manifest that all of any understanding in naturall things or things within the reach of mans reason may easily see it For in such things its evident not onely that the power excellency and efficacy of some man or men on earth may reach much further then his personal body or then the place in which that is yea the farther and the more fruitfully for his standing or abiding in some one place where he may be more profitable and fruitful to others then if he were personally with them according to which our Saviour instructs his Disciples in the necessity and usefulness to them ward of his leaving the World and going away from them to the Father to appear in his presence and stand in his Name for our help John 14. 2. 3. and 16. 7. 28 with Heb. 7. 8. 9. 4. 14. c. 1 John 2. 1 2. But farther also its evident to all that know anything and therein may be also some resemblance of this business that even the Visible Sun is placed in the firmament to run and keep its course there yet those heavens cannot contain its glory that it should not Shine to us and have its effects on the earth nor could it so generally Shine and have such Universal influences and effects if its body were not set or placed at such a distance from us Quest 10. Where or how came Christ into the house where his Disciples were met after his Resurrection the doors being shut John 20. 19. 26. Have not some of you said that then his body being spirituallized it glided in at the key hole of the door for so it hath been spoken concerning some of your way An. This hath two or three questions in it the two first are foolish and unlearned and to be avoided by us as where he came in or how it being not revealed otherwise or farther then thus That the same Jesus that dyed and rose did when his Disciples were in a house together come the doors being shut and stand in the midst of them even in that body of his flesh that saw no corruption having flesh and bones hands and feet the same body that was
given and broken for us and so alwayes to be remembered and fed upon by us Luke 22. 19. 1 Cor. 11 24. John 6. 5â— Again by his Blood as distinguished from his flesh is meant that blood of his Crosse which was shed for us for the Remission of sins Col â— 14. 20. Mat. 26. 28. Not only nor so directly his being sometime partakers of material and mortal blood in that body of his flesh that is included in the forementioned sence of his flesh as distinguished from his blood and when mentioned together with it such blood being in and with his flesh all the dayes of his mortallity untill his death in which it was so fully shed forth and powered out that water followed but by his blood as distinct from his flesh is directly meant his humbling himself to that death in the finishing of his sufferings wherein that blood in which was his natural life in the flesh as of man was shed and so therein his Soul or Life in the flesh powered out yeilded up and laid down for our sins that were caused to meet together upon him that so he might by means of that his death in the flesh take his Life again in the Power of God and live for ever in the Glory of his Father even in that raised body of his flesh And this is very usual in the Scripture by blood to signifie the shedding of blood to Death or the natural and bodily death by any other means so Abels death by Cain called his blood Gen. 4. 10. with Heb. 12. 24. So Naboths death by stoning called his blood 2 Kings 9. 2â— generally the Martyrdom and death of the Servants of God for his sake 2 Kings 9. 7. Deut. 32. 43. Psal 72. 14. with Psal 116. 15. Yea the natural or bodily Death however it come on a man is called his blood Psal 30. 9. Heb. 12. 4. So also that by Christs own blood the blood of his Crosse by which peace was made Redemption obtained and so by which he entered into Heaven it self and so by the Spirituall sprinkling of which in the Preaching of the Crosse he purgeth the conscience is meant his Death his shedding of his blood his once suffiring even to the death of the Crosse his being put to death in the flesh see it in the foreceited Scriptures Col. 1. 14 20. Mat. 26. 28. with Phil. 2. 8. 1 Pet. 2. 24 and 3. 18. so also in Heb 9. 2. 14. with ver 15 16. 22. 26. Again Secondly By the distinct mention of his flesh and blood is signified some distinct considerations of the ends and powerfull efficacies of his own suffering in that body of his flesh for our sins As 1. For making peace and atonement with God for our sins in which we have all sinned in the disobedience of one and in which we are from thence become altogether filthy and as such justly banished and dead at Law and so it s said he gave his flesh for the life of the World and by suffering the judgement of this World and being made a Curse for us he hath abolished death obtained a Redemption and release of mankinde from under the power of that judgement that came on all in and by the first man Adam and so from the curse of the Law to be under his dispose and judgement by whom the Kingdom of God is brought unto us that through him we might be saved As the offence of one was unto all to condemnation so the Righteousnesse of one in laying down his Life that he might take it again is unto all to Justification of Life from under the power of the first death and banishment that they may not perish therein or be held out from God thereby but that they might live to him that dyed for them and rose again Rom. 5. 18. 2 Cor. 5. 1â— 15. 19. Col. 1. 20. John 6. 51. and 12. 31 32. Gal. 3. 13. 11. His shedding of his blood laying down his Life or powering out his Soul unto death for our sins was also to obtaine into himself for us a better life yea better then that we lost in the first Adam even Eternal Life Yea all fulnesse of all things pertaining to life and Godlinesse even the fulnesse of the Godhead bodily that of his fulnesse we might receive And so the immeasurable fulnesse of that Holy and Eternal Spirit to rest upon him in that body in which he so suffered that he should Teach sinners in the way and guide the meek in Judgement Yea further he hath by his blood or by means of that his death which was for the Redemption of the Transgressions under the first Testament obtained plentious and Eternal Redemption even the forgivenesse of such sins as are after the similitude of Adams transgression he hath received power in the name of the Father and as the fruit of his sufferings to take away such sins by his dayly appearing in the presence of God for us and so all such gifts as may serve for the good of the Rebellious while it is to day for forbearing and renewing mercies to them that yet through him they might be saved and that he might be just and the Justifier of him that believeth in Jesus even from such sins yea from all things from which they could not be justified by the Law of Moses And so he is a Saviour from the wrath to come being now by means of his death a Mediator and propitiation for such sins as deserve it John 17. 4 5. 1 John 5. 11. Heb. 9. 12. Col. 1. 14. 19. and 2. 9. Acts 2. 33. Psal 68. 18 19. with Ephes 4. 8. 10. Heb. 9. 15. 1 Thes 1. 10. 1 John 2. 2. He was bruised wounded and put to death in the body of his flesh for our transgressions that through death he might abolish death in his Resurrection and make such peace and healing for us that through him we might be delivered and saved that were all our life time through fear of death subject to bondage Yea therefore also he shed his blood and powered out his Soul unto death that he might by vertue thereof obtaine and receive into himself a better even Eternal life for us with all such gifts for men yea for the Rebellious also as was needful that yet while it is to day they might be brought back to God and that he might be able to save to the utmost them that come to God by him 2. This his flesh and his blood was evidenced to be meat indeed and drink indeed for men spiritually to feed upon by the Resurrection of Christ from the dead and his offering up his spotlesse body a Ransom or price of Redemption once for all as being made perfect through sufferings and his being accepted and set down on the Right hand of God and Glorified with the Fathers own self Immeasurebly filled with all gifts in the man for men as before we have shewed all as the fruit of
its pretious fruit abiding with him in the man Christ Jesus glorifyed by means thereof and so evidently set forth to us in the preaching of the Cross even this is in the Faith and Believing remembrance of unfained Believers and pretious to them and so in its pretious Fruits in their mind and conscience working also through the whole man through that Faith of the Operation of God which is the evidence of things not seen the confidence of things hoped for And had these men understood what it is to eat Christs flesh and drink his Blood and to have the conscience purged with that they would have been far from so blaspheming it as a common or prophane thing as in this question with the other at least privily they have done nor would they have sought room to lift up and magnify something else in the name and place of it But they clearly manifest to those of any right understanding and skil in the Word of Righteousness that it is not his flesh they eat nor his Blood they drink for they believe not that his once suffering in the flesh for sin to be so pretious with God as to have obtained such glory into him in the man for us as before is shewed and therefore neither do they believe that to be of such infinite and abiding virtue as to be the meat and drink of life and purger of the Conscience as they signify in this question and so they believe not on him as the Scripture hath said as may appear in the answers given nor is it the true Christ that is in them but something else in the name and place of him it is Swines Flesh they eat unclean and forbidden things and the broth of abhominable things is in their Vessels nor are their Consciences truly purged or made good though they may be seemingly quiet but still defiled according to the corrupt unbelieving mind if not seared as with an hot Iron for in him whom the Father hath sent and sealed they believe not nor in the Lords death the Blood or Death of his Crosse have they their peace consolation and rejoycing as further appears in what follows Quest 13. And was the Blood of Christ that was shed separate from his body and then bearing record on the earth when John wrote those words 1 John 5. 8. A. The Blood of Christ that is to say his once Suffering in the Flesh even to the shedding of his Blood and so to the pouring out his Soul or life unto death that blood or death of his Cross as we have before fully shewed that to be meant by the blood of Christ by which peace was made and redemption obtained and he entered into heaven it self c. Yea it is evident to be meant here for the blood that bears witnesse in earth is the same mentioned vers 6. as that by or through which his having come in the Flesh to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself compare with vers 6. chap. 4. 2 3. and Heb. 9. 26. was perfected Now it is not simply his sometime having Material and Mortal blood or his being partaker of Flesh and Blood but his suffering and enduring even to blood and so to death in the Flesh by which together with the Grace of God he came as our Saviour and became a Captain of Salvation for us and to us as Heb. 2. 9. 10. 14 15. and chap. 9. 12. 26. That Blood of his Cross his once suffering unto death in the Flesh and so his death is as we have before shewed past and over as to the actual accomplishment and sustaining of it yea so separated from his Personal Body as that all mortality was put off in his Resurrection from the dead he dyed once and can dye no more but the remembrance of it remaineth with the Father who hath received and accepted it and him by means of it as a sacrifice for ever and so the infinite Fountain of the pretious virtue and fruit of it is treasured up in the man Christ Jesus whom God hath raised from the dead and Floweth from him in the influences and streams thereof unto men in the Name of God his Father and so his blood is still bearing witnesse on earth for God hath given him as delivered for our offences and raised again for our justification for a Witnesse to the People a Testimony in due time Isa 55. 3 4. with Acts 13. 34. and 1 Tim. 2 4 5 6. and therein this is the first and great thing witnessed by the Holy Ghost in which he commends his love to men and sheds it abroad in the hearts of believers namely that when we were yet without strength enemies ungodly c. In due time Christ dyed not is dying for us Rom. 5. 6. 8. with 2 Sam. 14. 14. yea such the powerful efficacies of this blood or death of Christ that is so past that it can no more be suffered that where the preaching of it is with the Heart believed it fills with peace hope and joy through the power of the Holy Ghost in it it purgeth the Conscience from dead works to serve the Living God and so also is bearing witnesse on the earth for he that believeth on the Son of God hath the witnesse in himself in his understanding and heart by faith through which he proves its pretious fruit and effecacy So that as the Blood or death of Abel whom Cain slew when over and past yet witnessed against Cain and cryed unto God for vengeance Gen. 4. 10. 14. so the blood or death of Christ through which his comming in the flesh or first appearing to put away sin by the Sacrifice of himself was perfected being presented before the Father in the appearing of the Man Christ Jesus in that Body of his flesh in which he so suffered in the presence of his glory doth speak better things for us in Heaven and from thence also in the Name of the Father speaks good things on earth even peace and good will to men yea it speaks and works effectually in the hearts of them that believe Heb. 12. 24. but these men not onely intimately shew their counting this his suffering to blood to death a common thing of no more virtue and efficacy then the blood of another person may be but they also manifest themselves unreasonable and absurd that cannot understand how a thing actually past and over may still remain in its fruit and efficacy which they might have seen in other things as in that of Abels blood forementioned so also in Gods delivering Israel out of Aegypt destroying their enemies his answering Balaam to the making void the consultations of Balaak and such other wonderful works being given for a witnesse of his Righteousnesse unto the generations after Mich. 6. 1. 5. Psal 81. and 78. and 106. Quest 14. And how can the blood of Christ either cleanse any from sin or give life to any if the life of Christ be
earth and offer up himself a perfect and for ever acceptable Sacrifice and abide a Priest for ever after the order of Melchizedeck The second of these and that so called is when God shall send us from Heaven the same Jesus Christ that was made of the Seed of David after the desh even him whom they Crucified slew and hung on a Tree whom God raised up whom the Heaven must receive till the restitution of all things And so when he the Son of man shall appear on the Earth where he was before humbled even to death made sin and a curse for us when he shall appear in the same body in which he so suffered in his own Glory which he obtained for us by sufferings and now possesseth for us and so in the Glory of his Father and with his holy Angels without sin or any such imputation or fruits of it upon him as in his first appearing was born by him for though he knew not sin yet he was then made sin for us When he shall so appear in his Glory to the utmost Salvation of those that look for him and restoring the Creation from under the bondage of corruption under which now it groans yea to raise and judge all men at that his appearing and Kingdom and subdue all things to himself Acts 1. 1â— and 3. 19 20 21. Mat. 16. 27. and 25. 31. and 26. 64. 1 Thes 4. 16. Phil. 3. 21. Heb. 9. 26. 28. Now of these personal comings of Christ into the World their queries should mean because they speak of his second coming as one of them about which they query how many we own and his second appearing so called must be an appearing in such a sence as in which he once appeared and but once before that and therefore cannot be understood oâ— his appeâ—â—rances or comings in the formentioned sences but in the latter only But this we know they cannot own any such coming of Christ in such a sence a second time or after his once suffering in the flesh they may have an immagination of his appearing or coming in the flesh often and in other persons and bodies after as before he did appear in that one personal body but they can have no expectation of his appearing again from Heaven in that body of his flesh his now Glorious body and in the glory now possessed by him for us because they believe not that this man continues for ever nor believe they any such Christ that is the very and the onely Christ that now hath a personal body of his own distinct from all other Spirits and bodies and is therein not on Earth but in the Heavens and therefore can have no expectation of any such coming of his from thence Their question therefore if plain according to their principles and to what they design to deny and make void should have been Whether we still expect a second or another personal and bodily coming of Christ into the World or other then hath been already accomplished and is or may be fulfilled in all ages in Divers persons To which our answer is Yea with much thankfulnesse to God and rejoycing in him with joy unspeakable and full of Glory we do and though they scoff at us for it he shall appear to our Glory that so look for him and they shall be ashamed But to their Question as it is having thus distinguished the comings of Christ in divers sences 2. We further answer that of personal and bodily comings of Christ into the World we own two and no more the one past the other yet to come 1. The first was not ofâ—en from the foundation of the World but once in the end of the World Four thousand years and upwards from the Creation and yet now long since for it was in the dayes of Cesar Augustus when Herod was Deputy King of Iudea and when Cyreneus was Governour of Syria and when there went out a decree from Cesar that all the World should be taxed and all went to be taxed every one to his own City Luke 1. 5. and â— â— 4. c. And his coming into the World was on this wise his body in which he was made flesh of the seed of David and came into the World was prepared for him by the Immediate and wonderful operation of the Holy Ghost not in the mind but in the womb of a woman a Virgin and not in any other womb he was made of a Woman of one not of many a Woman that had not known man Mary a Virgin of the house of David espoused to one Joseph a Carpenter a man distinct from other men who yet had not taken her to wife and feared to take her after she was found with Child till he was informed by an Angel that that which was conceived in her was of the Holy Ghost and his Name should be called Jesus for he should save his people from their sins of her he was born at Bethlehem where his birth was providentially ordered that the Scripture might be fulfilled and so in his Birth of Mary he came not into any man or woman but into the World and unto men And as his conception and Birth of Mary was foretold by an Angel so when born his Birth in a Stable in Bethlehem was declared and he that very person then and so born of her proclaimed though then a Babe to be Christ the Lord by Angels with great rejoycing and when eight dayes were accomplished for the circumcising the Child his Name was called Jesus which was so named of the Angel before he was conceived in the womb and when about a moneth after his birth they presented him to the Lord in the Temple he was witnessed unto by old Simeon to whom it had been revealed by the Holy Ghost that he should not see death till he had seen the Lords Christ He then coming by the Spirit into the Temple when the Parents brought in the Child Jesus took him up in his arms and said Lord now lettest thou thy Servant depart in peace for mine eyes have seen thy Salvation even the Lords Christ c. Likewise by one Anna a Prophetess who coming in at that instant gave thanks likewise to the Lord and spake of him even that Child Jesus to all them that looked for Redemption in Jerusalem Luke 2. After this he was carried by Joseph with Mary his Mother into Egypt till the death of Herod who sought to slay him and to that end slew all the male Children in Bethlehem but slew not him which he had certainly done in slaying them if he had been in every or any of them personally or as in that body of Jesus but he was not so he was carried into Egypt and after brought back by his Father and Mother into Nazareth of Galilee that the Scripture might be fulfilled which saith he shall be called a Nazarene and there dwelt with them sometime whence also he was called Jesus of Nazareth
so with us as we have the Power viz. In bodily presence the Heavens do receive him till the times of restitution of all things and from thence he is in the name of the Father vertually and Spiritually among men as before is shewed And whosoever denyeth this Jesus to be the very Christ is of Antichrist and what do they lesse that confesse him not or do not Preach or lift up the Son of man as already come in the flesh and having finished the works in his own body the Father gave him to do on the Earth and so as being by means thereof glorified in that very body in the highest Heavens with the Father compare 1 John 2. 22. with Chap. 4. 3. and John 3. 14. 16. 1 Tim 3. 16. Heb. 3. 26. But put the Name of Christ upon something that in their immagination is daily coming in the flesh and so appearing and suffering in the flesh for the putting away of sin often from the foundation of the World and is not now in a real personal Glorious body in the Heaven of heavens above the Earth but in the immaginary heaven in them on the Earth and call that their Idol the good Seed the Light and that Jesus that is the Christ as is the scope of this and the former Queries But our Jesus that is the very Christ of God who not often but once in the end of the World hath appeared to put away sin by the Sacrifice of himself is now not on Earth but in Heaven with the Father in his spotlesse and Glorious body appearing in the presence of God for us the great Apostle and high Priest of our profession he is therefore and from thence in the Name of the Father sending forth his Spirit in his Testimony to us and therein Spiritually and powerfully present with us preserving us from their delusions and strengthening us in believing that very Jesus to be the Son of God to overcome their assaults and still to wait for that his coming again which is truly and properly called his second coming which we are sure they have never seen nor is it yet come nor hath been to any what ever any vainly imagine and boast of For 2. Of this next and second coming of Christ it is affirmed by the Spirit of Truth 1. That it shall be in the same body in which he suffered and rose from the dead the third day and shewed himself to his Disciples alive after his passion even the same Jesus which while they beheld was taken up from them into Heaven Acts 1. 9. 10. and 3. 31. 15. 20 21. Mat. 26. 64. 2. His so coming shall be not a coming up in any man but a coming down from Heaven the Heaven above as opposed to the Earth beneath whence t is said he shall descend or come down which in respect of Glorious state or dignity he never shall as before is shewed 1 Thes 4. 16. 2 Thes 1. 7. Phil. 3. 20. 3. In this his coming all that sleep in Jesus with all of that body then surviving shall first see him but not one of them before another for in his very descending from Heaven before he appear upon the Earth by the sound of his voice in a moment in the twinkling of an eye the dead in Christ shall be raised and the survivers of that body shall then be changed and all of them suddenly caught up together to meet the Lord in the Ayre 1 Cor 15. 51 52. 1 Thes 4. 14 15 16 17. 4. This his coming then will be visible as the lightning that shines from the East and cometh even to the West Mat 24. 27. Luke 17. 24. So as every eye shall see him even those that shall wail before him Rev. 1. 7. Mat. 24. 30. and 26. 64. Mark 13. 26. and 14. 62. 5. This his visible coming shall be unto the Earth not with some but with all his Saints with him they being raised and changed as aforesaid and he shall then fully deliver the oppressed and slay all the wicked even every one that doth not presently submit to serve him and his People Zach. 14. 1. 5. 2 Pet. 3. 5 6 7. Psal 75. 10. and 149. 2 Thes 1. 7 8 9 10. 6. Then not onely all his Saints that come with him shall have Immortal bodies being as and equal to the Angels Luke 20 36. But also he will then restore all things even the other part of the Creation distinct from man that were made subject to vanity delivering it from the bondage of Corruption renewing the face of it for he shall make new Heavens and new Earth and all things new Acts 3. 20 21. Isa 6. and 65. 17. 2 Pet. 3. 10. 13. Rev. 21. 1. 5. Rom. 8. 19. 23. And then shall he take to him his great Power and Reign sitting on the Throne of David in Power and great Glory and set those that have been his suffering Saints on Thrones and they shall Reign with him on the Earth and judge the World until the finall and Eternal Judgement seize upon all the ungodly at the last and general Resurrection Isa 9. 7. Rev. 11. 15. 18 Luke 1. 31. 32 33 with Mat. 25. 31. c. Dan. 7. 13. 14. 18. 27. 1 Cor. 6. 2. Rev. 5. 10. and â—â— 4. 6 c. More might be but enough is said to shew that his second coming so called in Scripture his glorious appearing never yet hath been to any nor now is and though it be the day of the desire and longing of all unfeigned believers yet none of them shall see or injoy it otherwise then by Faith in the hope of it and powerful efficacies of that hope retained until they shall all see it together Luke 17. 22. 24. 37. 2 Tim. 4. â— Heb. 11. 40. 2 Thes 2. 1. with Chap. 1. 7. Yea they are all looking and waiting for it all the time of this present World while also they are waiting for the Redemption of the Body Tit. 2. 12 13. Heb. 9. 28. Rom. 8. 19. 25. Phil. 3. 20. 21. And if any say they have it or have seen it otherwise then by Faith as aforesaid and so lo here is Christ or there such are false christs and false prophets and we on such grounds as forementioned or warned not to believe or go after them Luke 17. 23 24. Mat. 24 23 24. As likewise if they say with Himmeneus the Resurrection is past already 2 Tim. 2. 18. Nor shall such scoffs or scoffers as 2 Pet. 3. 4. or as these appear in this question make us ashamed to professe We yet look and waite for this his second appearing and coming knowing that whatever reproach or denyal of it such make he that shall come will come and will not tarry longer then the appointed time which also hastens in his times God shall send and shew him c. Acts 3. 20. 1 Tim. 6. 14 15. Heb. 10. 37. 16. Query What are those seeds that must
authority I do these things The Baptism of John whence was it from Heaven or of men So might we here say when they tell us whether baptising with water either by sprinkling or dipping in the Name of Jesus of Nazareth be an Ordinance from Heaven to be still observed by believers and by them to be administred on any then we will likewise tell them the ground of our practice in this But the Reader may be satisfied that they make void the commandments of Christ in this as well as in the former by their traditions both by their principles and practice For first in their principles they deny that Jesus to be the very Christ in whom the fulnesse of the Godhead dwells bodily and so in whom the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost is and then why should any be baptized into his Name And Secondly in their practice they wholly lay aside and reject that observance as well as the other as unprofitable and vain Therefore we reject their question And yet for further help to the Reader add this word or two about Baptism in which we hope few of our forementioned dissenting brethren will much differ from us waving in this place those things in which they differ for such reasons as is fore expressed 1. That the command to disciple the Nations baptising them in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost was to be observed by the Apostles and by them that believe through their word unto the end of the World See what is said in answer to their â—9 Question from the consideration of the promise annexed to the Commission Mat. 28. 20. And lo I am with you alway namely in the observance of this command unto the end of the World 2. That that baptising in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost is in baptising in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ even of that Jesus of Nazareth whom God hath raised from the dead and made both Lord and Christ campare Mat. 28. 19. with Acts 2. 22. 38. and 8. 16. and 10. 48. For in him dwelleth all the fulnesse of the Godhead bodily and in his Name as so manifested is the great Name of God come forth and declared 3. That in that baptising repentance and remission of sins is Preached and witnessed as in his name for them and through it unto them as appears by comparing Mat. 28. 19. with Luke 24. 47 48. and Acts 13. verse 37 38 46 47. Like as John was sent baptising with water that Christ should be made manifest to Israel as the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the World John 1. 29. 31. And not to make them or something in them manifest to themselves or to Christ So the Apostles were sent baptising the Nations of the Gentiles also that they might therein witnesse as true to small and great even every Creature of mankind that Christ had now suffered and was risen from the dead and become in the man Gods Light to the Gentiles and his Salvation to the ends of the Earth so that there is Repentance and Remission of sins in him for them and through his Name to them compare with the forementioned Scriptures Acts 26. 22 23. Mark 16. 15. Whence the Apostle Peter exhorting to repent and be baptized every one of them gives this reason for the promise is to you and to your children c. He saith not the promise is in you nor had they yet by Faith received it But it was in Christ raised from the dead and through him by the Gospel to them as Rom. 3. 21 22. with Acts 13. 32 33. 37 38. 46 47. and Eph 3. 6. â— Which was the thing they were willing to witnesse and set their seal too in baptising them in that name Acts 2. 38 39. 4. That baptising with water in that name is included in that baptising given in commission And though as a lesser or lighter thing comparativly yet to go with the Preaching of the Gospel as an outward seal or witnesse of the Truth of God therein to every Creature of mankind small and great This appears by our Saviours use of the word baptising in that commandment given to his servants a word which when used to expresse a work in the Ministration of the Servants alwayes includes that with water in his Name though sometimes it takes in more and a more weighty thing in their service also And likewise by the Apostles understanding it as included in their Commission which it is evident they did see the Book of the Acts though but as a lighter matter to be used in subserviencie to the more weighty see for both â— Cor. 1. 14. 17. 23. Query Whether do you own such Preachers as take Tythes or Preach for hire or for gifts and rewards yea or nay Answ Here are three Questions in one and of divers natures which is a falacious way of querying To the first we say we own Melchizedeck who received Tythes of Abraham and blessed him that had the promise Heb. 7. 2. 6. We own also the good Priests under the Law that were of the sons of Levi and had a commandment to take Tythes of the People according to the Law Heb. 7. 5. such of them whose lips preserved knowledge We likewise own such Preachers now as having the Doctrine of Christ with fitnesse to Preach it do hold fast that faithfull word and Preach not themselves but Jesus even that Jesus of Nazareth whom God hath raised from the dead the Lord and themselves servants for Jesus sake Such as Preach repentance and remission of sins in his Name who is the Propitiation for the sins of the whole World the Fountain of Grace and Truth that of his fulnesse men might receive and so do wait for and in shewing those things of him that is the ground of it instruct others to look for that blessed hope and the glorious appearance of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ And to flee from the wrath to come in the Resurrection of the dead and Eternal Judgement by that man by whom he hath ordained to judge the World in Righteousnesse whereof he hath given assurance unto all men in that he hath raised him from the dead And so with that Doctrine of Christ and in the Preaching of it do Administer their instructions and reproofs to such as are Ignorant and out of the way and for conviction of the gain-sayers and their exhortations to all with consolations admonitions to believers to the edifying and teaching them that denying ungodlinesse and worldly lusts they should live Soberly Righteously and Godly in this present World c. Such Preachers we own whether they take Tythes or no. And further we say the Labourer is worthy of his hire Luke 10. 7. And thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the Ox that treadeth out the Corn 1 Cor. 9. 9.
and 16. 31 32 33. Ephes 3. 6. 9. The truth of which they was also before instructed to witnesse as in this their following Ministrations even in receiving the little Children or Infants that were brought to them in his Name as the price of his Blood and subjects of the gracious Kingdom of God brought to us by him Mark 9. 37. and 10. 13 14. with Luke 18. 15 16. Yet had not they the Light of the knowledge of God in their hearts or capacity to understand or perceive the shinings forth of it in the Face of Christ so that Light and capacity to such understanding in every of them to whom their Preaching came or witnesse reached nor in the real being of the thing witnessed otherwise then by Faith in any But further he faith 2. That as by the Gospels being Preached in Creatures may be meant its being witnessed in by and through them to others so as by Gods making use of them to man-ward as witnesses for him and of him and his things to men in such a sence he grants and asserts that the Gospel is Preached by God through Christ in every Creature under Heaven without exception even in all his works of Creation and Providence as Rom. 1. 20. For so the Gospel of the Grace of God which is his Glory to man-ward is declared and shewed forth to men that it may be seen and understood by them in and by the things that are made and preserved for them and to them by and through Christ as the Heavens the Firmament the Sun Moon and Stars Psal 19. 1. 6. and Psal 8. Yea all his works in and over all which his Mercy and Truth to man-ward is witnessed Psal 145. 9 10. 15. and Psal 136. and 148. His preserving man and other Creatures for his use and so his giving Rain from Heaven and fruitful seasons c His patience and bounty to sinners yea his forbearance and long suffering to rebellious sinners Psal 36. 5 6. and 68. 18 19 20. Acts 14. 16 17. Mat. 5. 45. with Luke 6. 35. Rom. 2. 4. 2 Pet. 3. 9. 15. Though of men his Saints do onely truly blesse him with the Mouth or Tongue and from the Heart where the understanding and knowledge of his Goodnesse is received and precious Yet also all his works do and more Gloriously shall praise him he never left himself without witnesse in them to make known to the Sons of men his mighty Acts and the Glorious Majesty of his Kingdom Yea so wonderful is he in working he knows how to make the wrath of man which of it self works not the Righteousnesse of God yet turn to his Praise But what is this to their purpose What makes this for proving such Spiritual Light as aforesaid in every man more then in every beast or plant Do these men suppose that every thing that may be a witnesse for God unto men hath the understanding of the witnesse they bear or of the thing witnessed or Light and capacity to such understanding in them Surely when God opened the mouth of an Asse she spake more truly and to purpose then these men Yet who will say she had in her the understanding of the warning and reproof God gave to Balaam therein or light and capacity thereto Numb 22. 28. 30. Or that the Pillar of the Stones Gen. 31. 45. 48. 52. had in them the understanding or light of the Covenant of which they were a witnesse or that all the things that are made as the Sun shinning the Rain falling c. have the light or understanding in them of the things witnessed in them to man-ward and that may be clearly seen and understood by them Doubtlesse they are brutish that would so infer But it is no strange thing for men that have no Faith in Christ but are void of Judgement concerning that to be also unreasonable or absurd 2 Thes 3. 2. Nor for such as are seeking after and professing to be wise in themselves to become most foolish Rom. 1. 22 23. 1 Cor. 1. 22 23. Thus have we answered in simplicity and plainnesse and not with hidden things of dishonesty but by a plain manifestation of the Truth in the words of Truth have declared our mind and meaning in our words That others when they read may understand our knowledge in the mysteries of Christ According to our measure as 2 Cor. 1. 2 13. 2. 17. 4. 1 2. Ephs 3. 4. And have been the larger for the helpfulnesse of such as will read and consider our Answers Desiring them to search the Scriptures whether these things be so And so far as any in reading and by searching and comparing the Scriptures may be helped to understand the things that we have written to be contained in and confirmed by the words of Truth let them so receive them as the Word of God and not of man And if in any thing they find we speak not according to that word let them refuse it and shew us in love by evidence of Scripture our mistake and we shall thankfully accept it for we dare not make our selves of the number or compare our selves with some that commend themselves c. See 2 Cor. 10. 12 13. for not he that commendeth himself but whom the Lord commendeth is approved verse 18. But let none be either over-hasty to believe every word before he find it contained and confirmed in the words of our Lord Jesus and in the Doctrine which is according to godlinesse nor yet to speak evil of the things he knows not That is if he cannot yet see it to be according to that word already delivered in the Law and Testimony and yet neither can be thereby satisfied that it is not according to it or that the lip of knowledge is not in it let him suspend his judgement and still wait in the believing mindfulnesse of the great things in the Doctrine of Christ for further understanding for so its meet to be said unto God what I see not teach thou me Nor have we in our answers to these queries or in any of our dealings with these men walked according to any other Rule or done by them otherwise then we would that men should do by us That is we have not declared and protested against any of their corrupt principles as evil and Antichristian further then we have been fully assured by the word of God that they are such as may be seen by our shewing them thereby to be such for so such instructions as have not the lip of knowledge in them but do cause to erre from the words of knowledge they may be by the light of the Lord known and discerned to be such and as such to be avoyded though the depths of Satan in them what their lip is and whitherto it tends their wayes being moveable and their Depths in the bottomlesse pit we cannot know them Pro. 5. 6. And therefore it is not our work to search or enquire into them Rev. 2. 24. 25. But in the holding fast that which we have heard from the beginning of the word of the beginning of Christ So soon as ever we perceive and know by the light thereof that the lip of knowledge is not in any Doctrine or spirit that comes to us That it lifts not up the Son of man by taking of his things and shewing them but tends to render him undesirable in what he hath done is doing and will do and to withdraw from the words of knowledge we are then presently to depart from such to cease to hear them and let them be to us as an accursed thing not further to be considered or pondered by us and so to warn others of them for with good words and fair speeches even such may easily deceive the hearts of the simple that in confidence of their own strength and out of an unstable mind and itching ear will be often tempting God and trying and pondering their moveable paths after they have perceived that the lip of knowledge is not in them but the Preaching of the personal sufferings of Christ foolishnesse to them We have therefore left this for an instruction and warning to others that the Truth of the Gospel may remain with believers and that such as are Ignorant and out of the way may be recovered And further we desire of the Reader if ever he see any reply to this of ours he would distinctly observe if they pervert not or alter our sayings by taking them in pieces and changing expressions to marr the sence if also they give not a go-by to the matters of the greatest weight and importance and onely lie at the catch to get some by-matters or words to strive snarle about which can tend to no profit but to the subverting the Reader from the things chiefly to be minded And in observance of this caution we doubt not but the Reader will be satisfied even from themselves concerning their Antichristian spirit without our adding any more by way of return to theirs Which though we will not bind our selves from yet we do not resolve to do though they should give us occasion by such sorry shifts and pretended answers as hitherto they have returned As for their slanders and revilings that follow we weigh them not but commit our selves to him that judgeth Righteously who will at that his second coming which they scoff at when He the Son of man shall appear in his Glory make their folly manifest to all men and bring to light the hidden things of darknesse Then it shall fully appear who have walked in craftinesse Pride Hypocrisie and hidden things of dishonesty in the mean time we are during his good pleasure in his Name and strength his witnesses against it all JOHN HORN THOMAS MOOR Senior THOMAS MOOR Junior FINIS