b Ibid. c. 17. Maria Matergratiae Mater misericordiae tu nos ab hoste c. Bellarmin tells us the Church Catholic in her Hymn to the Virgin Mary praies thus O Mary Mother of Grace Mother of Mercy Do thou defend us from the enimy and and receive us in the hour of death If we may judg of words by their signification doubtless this praier imports more then barely a desire of her assistance by her praiers Phil. Bellarmin in the same place gives you a general rule against such sinister constructions c Nos non agere de verbis at sensis verborum We dispute not of the words but of their sense Now the sense of our Church in all such petitions is that the Blessed Virgin and the Saints by their praiers and by their merits would procure these things for us Theoph. Altho this may be the sense of your Church yet it is not the signification of the words and methinks to avoid the just occasion of scandal given to your adversaries by them the occasion of errour and delusion given to your undiscerning votaries your Church should have exprest her self in more inoffensive and justifiable termes Bellarmine gives a 2 d instance in the Hymn of the Apostles he saith the Church praies thus d Quorum praecepto subditur salus languor omvium sanent aegros c. Let the Holy Apostles unto whose command both the welfare and languishings of all men are submited let them heal us who are morally sick and restore us unto a life of vertues If Command here must signify Intercession and supplication your Church would do well and wisely to set forth a new Dictionary to interpret words and sentences not after the common sense and signification of them but after the Roman glosse Mean while an impartial Judg must needs conclude these interpretations to be forc'd only to salve the inconveniencies and absurdities of such praiers and if your Church had design'd only to invocate the Saints in Heaven for their Intercession with God by their praiers she would have made use of more humble and suitable expressions but making the Intercession of Saints to consist as well in their merits as in their praiers calling upon them as well for their patronage as their Intercession This I say hath prepar'd the way for all those foremention'd presumtions and blasphemies in your addresses to them and Invocation of them If God be the Father of grace and mercy and Mary the Mother who would imagine otherwise but that these heavenly blessings flow originally and immediatly from them both Phil. It is obvious that the Blessed Virgin is call'd the Mother of mercy because she is the Mother of our Lord Jesus Christ who is the fountain of Grace and mercy Theoph. Your Doctors do not teach you so to understand it seeing they represent Christ as a severe Judge towards a poor sinner and Mary their Advocate for mercy You have heard how in the distribution of the Kingdom of Heaven the Province of Justice is allott'd to the Son and of Mercy to the Virgin Mother Your Florentin Archbishop tells us That upon the Assumtion of the Blessed Virgin into Heaven as your Doctors have carefully imprinted that belief in the hearts of the credulous people the whole person of the Virgin Mary both Body and Soul is taken up into Heaven I say we are told that when she was translated into Heaven the Seraphims attended upon her and earnestly sollicited her stay and society with their sublime Order But she deliberatly answer'd a Non est honum hominem esse solum It is not good the Man should be alone meaning her Son and that She must assist him in the Redemtion of Gods people by her Compassion and in their Glorification by her Intercession That when for the Iniquity of the world her Son should be ready to destory the Earth a second time with a floud she may appeare as the bow in the clouds to oppose his fury and mind him of his Covenant and promise These are the luxuriant fancies of your Archbishop suitable hereunto I read of b Vide Chemnit exam Trid. Concil p. 3. de Invoc Sanct. Pictures in your Temples representing Christ in his indignation casting darts and thunderbolts and the Blessed Virgin standing between his wrath and sinfull men and receiving the darts into her bosom Phil. Still you return to the fancies of private Doctors and Painters your promis'd more authentick proofs Theoph. What think you of that great promise made to uphold man immediatly after his fall concerning Christ the seed of the woman who should break the serpents head that is overcome the Devil and all infernal powers Your vulgar Translation which must be more authentick then the Original reads the Pronoun in the feminine c Ipsa conteret caput serpentis Gen. 3. She shall bruise his head instead of He shall bruise as the Hebrew and the Septuagint read it And hereupon your Doctors refer the promise unto the Virgin Mary as tho in all things she must have the preheminence Phil. Bellarmin shews how the vulgar Translation varies d Tom. 1. lib. 2. de Verbo Dei c. 12. He hath seen a Copy which reads it likewise in the masculine Theoph. What he hath searcht and found we know not but your Translation generally runs in the feminine And he acknowledgeth the Latin Fathers being misled by the vulgar Translation take it in the feminine And upon that same account your Doctors refer the Prophecyto the Virgin Phil. Bellarmin shews in the second place that he saw an Hebrew Copy which had the feminine 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Theoph. This observation is like the former upon some corrupt Copy against the general reading of the Hebrew Text. And he would leave the Scriptures altogether upon uncertainties that their Translation might not be lyable to reprehension Phil. He refers to Chrysostom a Father of the Greek Church who he saith reads it in the feminine Theoph. He doth so after his accustum'd manner to deceive his Reader For it is manifest the a Homil. 17. in Gen. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Father reads it in the masculine perhaps here also the Cardinal consulted some Latin Translation of Chrysostom which might serve his turn He makes some other inconsiderable pleas to justify the vulgar reading chiefly because of this modern reference unto Our Lady Whereas some Fathers of the Latin Church being ignorant of the Hebrew and the Greek follow the vulgar translation and yet as I can find never reflected upon the Virgin Mary in that promise only your new Doctors who many of them have knowledg of the Tongues sufficient to discern the error of the translation yet please them selves much therewith and make their advantage of the error to improve the honor of the Lady and make her the prime subject of that grand Prophecy By this way they may justify the petition of
unto the Image it self putting us in mind of our Savior you have high reason to yield all civil honor and obeisance to your Prinoe but will you bow the Knee or put of your Hat unto his Image in your Coin or to his Picture in your Closet Phil. Let me ask you also one Question If any should stab the Image of the King or of your Ancestors and shew great indignation against them would you not be higtly offended Theoph. If the Circumstances declare that he did it out of despight and malice to the person represented by the Picture there is reason to take it as an high affront Phil. By insensible degrees I shall bring you to acknowledge as much as we desire If you should see any Man give honor and respect unto the Princes Picture for his sake would you not approve it Theoph. Yes giving such regard as a pious Prince expects from us not to put a studied affront upon it not to set it up in a contemtible place we likewise shew a dutiful affection in highly valuing the Picture that resembles the King Phil. Why should you except against honor and respect given to an Image of your Savior or of his blessed Mother and the Saints Theoph. We do not set aside the Religious Worship of an Image which may lawfully be made and we will not except against any respect you will give to it for his sake whom it represents you must prove it lawful to worship Images Phil. To a Prince civil Worship and Honor is due and so much you give likewise to his Picture by the same rule seeing unto Christ as Man in union with the Divine Nature is due Religious Worship and Adoration you must give Religious Worship to his Image Theoph. We never said the same honor is due to the Picture of a Prince as to his Person Do you all stand bare in the Parlor because your Princes Picture hangs there or the Pictures of any of his Predecessors And secondly from a civil Worship given unto a Creature to a Religious Worship given unto a Creature there is no consequence to be drawn and the reason is this God hath forbid one and not the other Now the Pictures of Christ and of his Cross and of the Saints are Creatures even the work of Mens hands and therefore to them no Religious Worship to be given Phil. There is a receiv'd Maxim in the Church first taken from Basil the Great a Vid. Damascen Orthod Fid. lib. 4. c. 17. 11 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. The honor done to the Image passeth unto him whom it represents and therefore honoring their Images you honor Christ and his Saints Theoph. 'T is truth what respect is given to a Picture is only with regard unto the thing or person represented by it and therefore it is call'd relative Honor We prize the Picture of a Friend and much more of our Blessed Savior and his Saints if they be drawn to the Life but however to the Picture itself no adoration can in reason be given and honor because it is far inferior to the meanest Man who is the living Image of God and a Picture suppose of Christ but an inanimate Image b Honor est agnitio praecellâ—ntis Now Honor is given to things more excellent Will you say the Picture of a King excels in dignity the person of a Subject or that a liveless Picture of our Blessed Savior is more honorable then a living Disciple of our Blessed Savior Phil. Not in itself but as it is the Image of Christ Theoph. I speak of it as his Image and yet I do suppose you dare not maintain That the Picture of Christ in the consideration as his Picture is more to be esteemed then a Disciple of Christ for suppose one of them were to be destroi'd Would you save the Picture and leave the Man to perish Again for worshipping the Images of Saints it may be of S t Peter Is more honor to be given to his Image now then was to his person in the days of his Flesh When Cornelius fell at his Feet and worship'd him he receiv'd it not but said Stand up I my self also am a Man Acts 10 26 instructing him that no such worship was due to a Man Phil. He would not receive such adoration as was due to God Theoph. Who told you good Cornelius a devout Man intended such worship as was due to God Dare you say Cornelius in that act committed I dolatry giving the worship due only to God unto his Servant Peter he only design'd to give to him such high expressions of Honor and Worship as to a Saint and Servant of God upon Earth and yet Peter would not accept of it and intimates because he was a Man he ought not So we read S t John fell down to Worship before the Feet of the Angel and the Angel said See thou do it not for I am thy fellow-servant and of thy Brethren the Prophets and of them which keep the sayings of this Book worship God Now it is to be conceiv'd John design'd not to commit Idolarry and give Divine Worship to the Angel but only some inferior Religious Worship as your Doctors use to speak and yet the Angel would not receive it being jealous of his Creators Honor and directs the Apostle to worship God Now if we must not worship Saints in their own Persons much less in their Images If Angels will not accept worship from us neither will the Saints Triumphant both instruct us to worship God and not them altho we should intend to give them only inferior worship Phil. The second Council of Nice being the seventh Oecumenical Council hath well stated this Point and establish'd the Worship proper to God call'd Latria to be incommunicable to a Creature But a second sort of inferior Worship and Adoration they determin must be given to the Images of Christ and the Saints Theoph. I wish they had first satisfied you or me why they should determine inferior Worship and Adoration to be given to the Saints in Heaven and to their Images on Earth seeing the Angel expresly forbids it and directs us only to worship God But seeing you have appeal'd to that Council of Nice thither we will go as being indeed the first Foundation of Image worship and if you please I will give you a preliminary account and history of that Council Phil. I pray do so for it will suit with our present Discourse and shew the rashness of those Enemies of Christ and his Saints who brake down their Images and cast them out of Churches as Heathen Idols unto the Dung-hill whil'st the holy Popes of Rome successively wrote Epistles and sent Legats and gave warning to the Emperors whose Zeal without knowledge gave countenance and autority to such Sacrilegious Outrages Theoph. About the year of Christ 720. Leo Isaurus the 69 th Emperor of Rome from Augustus observing the growth of Superstition and Idolatry
Images And I do not find in the second Council of Nice the term of Dulia opposite to Latria but Salutation and Adoration 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 However at present we dispute not the terms but desire to know the importance of the known distinction That God only is worship'd with the worship call'd Latria and the Saints with the worship call'd Dulia In the first place therefore What is Latria a Lib. 9. Instit Moralium c. 5. Cultus soli Deo c. Azorius a Jesuit and Casuist tells us It is Service or Worship due to God alone whereby we subject our selves to him as to the supreme Lord putting our trust and confidence in him In the second place What is Dulia b Veneratio quae civibus Coeli tribuitur That Veneration saith he which is given unto the Citizens of Heaven This sheweth to whom it is given but why doth he not tell us what that Worship is and wherein it differeth from Latria And withal seeing Dulia signifieth servitude in the judgment of c Tom. 1. l. de vera Relig. c. 55. Honoramus eos charitate non servitate Augustin we ought not to give it to the Saints in Heaven We honor them saith he with love and not with servitude No distinct peculiar Service or Worship is due to the Saints in Glory for herein lies the difference between the Fathers and the School-men These appropriate a Service and Worship to the Saints in Heaven and call it Dulia to the Blessed Virgin and call it Hyperdulia But Augustin makes no difference between the Service and Worship due to the Saints in Heaven and the Saints on Earth d Lib. 20. Contra Faust. Manich. c. 21. Colimus Martyres eo cultu delect c. We honor Martyrs with that worship of love and friendship wherewith we honor holy Men of God in this life and we worship God alone with Latria When the Manichees objected That Christians made Idols of their Martyrs honoring their Tombs and erecting Altars before them e Quos etiam votis similibus colitis and making Vows unto them f Altaria erigimus Deo Martyrum quod offertur Deo offertur c. Augustin answers We erect the Altars to the God of those Martyrs and the Oblations are given to God who crowned the Martyrs A Christian with Religious Solemnity celebrates the memories of Martyrs to excite Imitation and that he may share in their merits and be assisted by their Praiers Phil. This passage of S t Augustin shews a Religious Solemnity to be kept in honor of the Saints departed and that the living may share in their Merits and be assisted by their Praiers these are Truths which you will not freely acknowledg Theoph. We do acknowledg them for by a Religious Solemnity we understand the Festivals which the Holy Church observes in commemoration of the Saints and Martyrs By the society of their Merits we understand that by imitation of the Saints we have a Fellowship in their Labors and in their Crowns And for the last Clause the assistance of their Prayers we doubt not but that the Saints in Heaven do pray for the Church of God and his Servants here on Earth but as for any knowledge of particulars when we come to that Point I can shew how S t Augustin doubts a Lib. de cura pro Mort. c. 15. Fatendum nescire quidem mortuos quid hic agatur Whether the Blessed Saints and Martyrs do hear the Prayers which are offered up at their Shrines nay he confesseth that they do not know what is done here below and that when by the power of God and Ministry of Angels Miracles were done at their Shrines themselves might not know it no not when they did appear to some upon Earth as Saul saw in a Vision one Ananias coming to him and putting his hands upon him that he might receive his sight but Ananias himself knew nothing of that appearance to Saul until the Lord declared it to him Acts 9 12 God might please to act great things at the Monuments of Martyrs b Cap. 17. Illis in summa quiete positis whil'st themselves were in perfect rest as he speaks But this by the way it belongs to another Controversie in due time to be assum'd However you have heard Augustin after all that he had said concluding We honor Martyrs with that worship of Love and Friendship wherewith we honor Holy Men of God in this Life and if you will require no more Veneration to be given to them we will grant it But then you must remember That Paul when living did forbid Cornelius to worship him and so did the Angel prohibit the Apostle John and so would all the glorious Saints in Heaven prohibit your Adoration before their Images if they could communicate in speech or any other way with you Religious Worship we deny to the Saints and their Images civil honor and respect we give Phil. Because the Saints and Angels of God are like him in their natural Powers and Qualities moral and civil honor is due to them for honor is the acknowledgment of some Excellency But then in regard unto their supernatural Gifts and Spiritual and Religious Qualities we must allow them Religious and Spiritual Honor and Veneration Theoph. c De vera Relig. c. 55. Vni Deo religamus animas nostras unde Religio dicta creditur S t Augustin observes how the very name of Religion strictly binds us to God and therefore all Religious Acts and Services are due only to him Had not Peter and Paul and the other Saints in bliss while they were living in the Flesh supernatural Gifts and Excellencies and would you have worship'd them with Religious Worship Cornelius attemted it and was forbidden Phil. There is a great disproportion between the Saints in Glory and the Saints militant here on Earth Theoph. In regard of their Happiness and Fruition they are excellent beyond compare but this is their reward the Honor we give them is in commemoration of their Works and Excellencies in this Life for our example and imitation And withal Cornelius worshipping Peter in the Flesh was sure Peter was sensible of that Honor then given and you know the Apostle refus'd it but if you worship him now being in Heaven you may rationally doubt as S t Augustin did of the Saints in geneneral whether he is sensible of that Honor more then his Image before which you fall down and worship Phil. However God accepts the Honor done to his Saints as to himself Theoph. Yes when done according to his rule But where hath God given any command or direction to worship them you bring no proofs of your Practice out of Holy Scripture we urge many Texts against it Your Arguments run altogether upon Analogy and Proportion that much more honor is due to the Saints now in Heaven then when they liv'd in the Flesh because they are much more excellent
his Zeal for your Church and that in him I should meet with all which rationally can be suggested to uphold his Cause Let us therefore hear how he hath managed these Controversies Phil. Concerning the Point Invocation of Saints departed After some preliminary Discourses a Tom. 2. Controvers 4. de Eccl. Triumph c. 18 19. Bellarmin undertakes to prove two things one in order unto the other 1. That the Saints in Heaven do pray for us 2. That we must pray to them Theoph. One of these doth not necessarily follow upon the other That if the Saints Triumphant are sollicitous for and do pray for the Church Militant in general for the triumph of their Faith and their consummation in Bliss who being Fellow-members of Christs mystical Body the Church are yet within the Lists wrestling with great opposition and many tryals I say it doth not follow That if the Saints in Glory do pray for the Church Militant that therefore we should call upon them so to do They are perfect in Grace and never wanting to their duty or unmindful of their concerns Upon this account methinks out of a Zeal to the glory of God you ought as frequently to call upon the Saints in Heaven to laud and magnifie the God of Heaven as out of a sense of your own wants to pray unto them to intercede for you But withal you can never give us any infallible assurance that they do hear our Prayers that so in Faith and with confidence we may call upon them The Members of the Church-Catholic thro-out the World do pray for one another and yet one National Church doth not Invocate another except it be by enter course of communicatory Epistles Direct me how to send a Letter to Saint Peter and I will not fail to put in my humble request That he would help me with his Praiers Phil. This great Point concerning the assurance that the Saints do hear our Praiers will fall into consideration hereafter mean while it becomes you not to mock and play the Droll in a serious concern Theoph. You may excuse me the rather seeing you shall find in b Tom. 5. pag. 513. Binius his Edition of the Councils a large Letter sent to Pepin King of France and Charls and Carlemain his Sons from S t Peter by Pope Stephen the 3 d imploring and requiring their speedy assistance against the Lombards in the behalf of Rome his Episcopal See and of his Sepulcher and Temple therein And you may suppose Pope Stephen could as easily have returned an Answer from these Princes to the Apostle I shall have occasion to produce that hereafter Phil. These are strange divertisements from our business Are you seriously afraid to enter into the Controversie that you interrupt my Discourse with such impertinencies Theoph. If I should answer your Question you would complain of more delaies Take your course therefore and I will follow you Phil. a Ib. Cap. 18. Bellarmin proves the Saints do pray for us from that passage of Holy Scripture Tho Moses and Samuel stood before me yet could not my mind be towards this People Therefore saith he Moses and Samuel being dead did usually pray for the People of the Jews Theoph. We have a rule in Logic Suppositio nihil point This Supposition If they should pray doth not imply They did pray The Text only designs to shew Gods great indignation against his People the Jews at that time insomuch that if those two Holy Persons and greatly belov'd were alive and should interpose for them they should not prevail b Tom. 4. Homil. 1. in primum Thess 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hence S t Chrysostom upon this Text 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 If Moses the first Law-giver who often delivered the Jews by his Intercession from Divine Vengeance if he were now in being he should not prevail The like passage we have Ezek 14. 13 14. Son of Man when the Land sinneth against me by trespassing grievously c. tho these three men Noah Daniel and Job were in it they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness And so in divers passages following in that Chapter Tho Noah Daniel and Job were in it c. now as this Supposition cannot infer these three Men were in the Land for Noah and Job were dead more then a thousand Years before altho Daniel was then living So neither doth the former Supposition prove That Moses and Samuel did pray for the Jews after their decease That place of S t Paul Gal. 10. ver 8. Tho we or an Angel from Heaven preach any other Gospel to you c. in Bellarmins Logic must imply They did preach another Gospel Let the Reader pity us to see unto what a drudgery we are put to answer such futile Arguments Phil. I well see nothing will prevail against your prejudices but express and positive Texts and therefore in the next Argument Bellarmine complies with your humor In the second Book of Maccabees and the last Chapter we read expresly How Onias formerly their High Priest and a vertuous and good Man prai'd for the whole Body of the Jews ver 12. And that Jeremiah the Prophet of the Lord did pray much for the People and for the holy City when Judas Maccabaeus was ingaging in Battel with Nicanor unto whom we read the Prophet Jeremiah gave a Sword of Gold as a Gift from God wherewith to wound and subdue his Enemies Theoph. This is out of an Apocryphal Book and therefore no infallible proof from Canonical Scripture Now touching the Canon of Holy Scripture we may have by Divine permission another occasion to discourse And altho Bellarmin pleaseth himself that Calvin had no other refuge but to deny the Autority of the Text yet we will reflect upon other Particulars which appear to weaken the Testimony For it was but a Dream of Judas Maccabeus which he told unto his Soldiers to encourage them before the Fight a Dream worthy to be believed as if it had been so indeed saith the Author ver 11. It seems therefore indeed it was not so and so the whole Testimony is from a Dream that had no reality In the 12 th verse it is call'd A Vision you may suppose a waking Dream and therein there was so much reality that Jeremiah gave a golden Sword to Judas to wound his Adversaries but a golden Sword is no fit Instrument of War for execution and it is much we never read it was laid up in the Temple for a Sacred Relic and much more cause we have to wonder it is not at all mention'd in the first Book of Maccabees which is the more perfect History of those Wars and wherein the Battel with Nicanor is punctually related 1 Macc. 7. 41. and Judas his Praier to God before the Fight but of the Dream or Vision ne gry quidem And now I pray observe how your Doctors in those Instances are inconstant to their own Principles for they generally
hold That the Souls of the Faithful departed before Christs Resurrection did not enter into Heaven neither see the Face of God nor know the State of things here above them and therefore it was not usual in the Church to call upon them and say Holy Abraham pray for us Your Doctors hold a Bell. ib. c. 19. Notandum ante adventum Christi qui moriebantur non intrabant in Coelum non Deum videbant nec ordinarie poterant cognese preces sapplicantium That the Spirits of the Patriarchs and Prophets and People of God were shut up in Limbo Patrum as they call it in a subterraneous place the uppermost verge of Hell beneath us without pain and without joy in the Vision of God waiting for their redemtion out of that Prison by the coming of Christ who descended into Hell to set them at liberty and to conduct them triumphantly into Heaven When we urge that Text Isa 63. ver 16. Doubtless thou art our Father tho Abraham be ignorant of us and Israel acknowledgeth us not to shew how the Saints departed know not the Affairs and Transactions here below You answer So it was before Christs Ascension the Saints departed were not in Heaven until Christ opened the Kingdom to them but they were shut up from the Vision of God and from all knowledge of the concerns of this World and yet contrary to this their own Hypothesis you see how they give Instances of Moses and Samuel and Onias and Jeremiah praying for their People the Jews and sollicitous for them in their distress Phil. You may therefore observe the limitation of Bellarmine Non poterant ordinarie preces cognoscere c. In that state they understood not ordinarily the Affairs upon Earth nor heard the Prayers of the People but God might reveal them and so excite them to pray for the People upon which account some of our Doctors hold a Azorius Instit. Moral lib. 9. c. 9. Medina de Orat. Quaest 4. That Prayers might be made to the Fathers in Lymbo yea even to the Souls in Purgatory because they are in a state of Grace and Charity and by the gift of God or by the Ministery of Angels they may hear our Praiers Theoph. Upon the same ground we may daily implore the Assistance and Prayers of our Friends that are absent living at a great distance from us for God may reveal our Desires and Petitions to them but alas these are weak props and suppositions to uphold a feeble cause and hitherto your Learned Cardinal hath not bin demonstrative in the point Phil. Before we conclude I do not doubt but you shall change your note In the New Testament we read Rev. 5. 8. How the 24 Elders fall down before the Lamb having golden Viols full of Odors which are the Praiers of the Saints Theoph. What Argument can Bellarmin or you frame out of this Text I understand not his design Phil. Bellarmin shews how Interpreters understand by the Praiers of the Saints Intercessions made by the Saints in Heaven for the confirmation and support of their weak Brethren upon Earth Theoph. It seems then even the Saints in Glory make use of Mediators of the four Beasts and the twenty four Elders to present their Prayers to the Lamb. The more general Interpretation of that place is That these Odors filling the golden Vials are the Praiers of the Faithful upon Earth which are represented in the Psalm To ascend like the Incense Psal 141. ver 2. Phil. This gives as full testimony to our purpose as the other for thereby it appears the Praiers of the Saints on Earth are presented unto God and to the Lamb by the Saints and Angels in Heaven And to this effect we read Rev. 8. ver 3 4. how an Angel came and stood at the Altar having a golden Censer and there was given unto him much Incense that he should offer it with the Praiers of all Saints upon the golden Altar which was before the Throne And the smoke of the Incense which came with the Praiers of the Saints ascended up before God out of the Angels hand Now this Incense offered up with the Praiers of the Saints on Earth we may suppose are the Merits and Intercession of the Saints in Glory Theoph. And we may suppose they are the Merits and Intercession of Christ whom Primasius understands by the Angel in this place we know it is said expresly Heb. 9. 24. That Christ is entred into the Holiest of all into Heaven it self to appear in the presence of God for us and that by him we offer up to God continually our Sacrifices of Praise Heb. 13. 15. and without all peradventure he is most properly said to add Incense and sweet Odours to our Praiers and Praises because for his sake only they are acceptable to the Father However I cannot but observe what a leap your Cardinal hath taken over all the New Testament to produce his first and cheifest Arguments out of the Revelations of S t John for the Saints hearing and presenting our Prayers unto God purposely to involve himself and others in mysteries and visions which can admit no clear Interpretation neither become useful to lay the Foundation of a Doctrine which takes up the greatest part of the peoples devotions in the Church viz. of the Invocation of Saints In a like case S t Augustine cried out to the Donatists a A Ferte aliquid quod non egeat Interpret Bring forth such proofs as want no Interpretation Suppose I should undertake to prove That the Souls of the just departed are not in Heaven neither do enjoy a perfect state in bliss Rev. 6. vers 9. c. because when the fift seal was opened S t John saw under the Altar the Souls of the Martyrs of them that were slain for the word of God and for the Testimony which they held and they cried with a loud voice saying How long O Lord Holy and true dost thou not judg and avenge our blood upon them that dwell on the earth and white robes were given unto every one of them that they should rest yet for a little season until their fellow servants and their Brethren that should be killed as they were should be fulfilled Suppose I should from the same Text urge that the Martyrs do expressly pray for Divine vengeance upon their enemies but no mention is made of any intercession for their Freinds you would not well approve Arguments drawn from such mysterious visions and Revelations and therefore do not your self make use of them b Tom. 30. in Epistolis ad Paulinum ad Marcellam S t Jerom tells us That the book of the Revelations hath as many mysteries as words and that the whole is to be understood in a spiritual sense and not literal Phil. These things were certainly written for our Instruction and Bellarmine very well argues That if the Saints in Heaven and Martyrs do pray for jugdment upon their
Man and his redemtion by Christ and other Mysteries which were made known unto them saith the Apostle in the Churches by the Ministery of the Gospel See Estius in 4. Sent. dist 46. Paragr 19. p. 294. And so while your Doctors without any warrant of Scripture generally lay this for a Foundation That the Saints in Heaven do know our state and bear our Praiers when they come to the proof and confirmation every one abounds in his own sense and they easily confute one anothers Reasons and Opinions and manifest unto their Readers upon due consideration that they are full of uncertainties in the Point which they take for granted and can urge only fallible Arguments to confirm that which they would have receiv'd by all Men as a mesur'd Truth but we have not learn'd to subscribe to Mens Dictates And you acknowledg your Doctor makes not proof of his Assertion which is a great defect this being the main Hinge whereupon the Controversie turns We conclude therefore there is no reason we should call upon the Saints when they do not hear us as a Child doth not ask his Fathers Blessing when he is out of hearing Now you assert with Bellarmin That the Saints in Heaven out of doubt do hear us but you know not how It is probable say you that in the Face of God they see and know all things that concern them but give no reason of that probability and is it fit that a Doctrine of your Church which takes up in that part the Devotion of all Gods People should be grounded only upon such a probability whereof you can give no reason How can I call upon the Saints with Faith and Comfort when I have no assurance that they can hear me I may with as much reason daily beg the Praiers of pious Friends who live far from me and say It is probable God will revele to them that I desire the assistance of their Praiers Phil. Your Instance runs not parallel Our condition here is a state of ignorance their 's a state of comprehension They can see the Face of God and live for ever they certainly know all things which tend to their consummation in Bliss for they are arriv'd at the state of Perfection and perfect Knowledge is the foundation of their Happiness Theoph. The perfect knowledg of God is so Here we know in part saith the Apostle 1 Cor. 13. ver 12. but there we shall know as we are known i. e. fully perfectly and this knowledg and Vision of God is Beatifical But how doth this prove their knowledg of the necessities and Praiers of us poor Mortals here on Earth whom they have leâ—t behind them in the vale of Misery we may rather suppose the wisdom of God hath excluded them from the knowledg of their Friends and Relations and of miserable Man here beneath least it should prove a diminution of their Joy and Bliss Your Angelical Doctor holds o Aqu. part 1. qu. 12. Art 8. ad 4. Cognoscere singularia cogitata aut facta c. non est de perfect It belongs not unto the perfection of a created Intellect to know particulars the thoughts or actions of Men. If God only be seen it sufficeth to make men happy As S t Augustin â— He is happy who knoweth Thee altho he have nothing else In a word Cardinals Cajetane was a Learned Advocate of your Church and had studied the Point in hand much and he concludes at last That we have no assurance that the Saints know when we pray to them altho we piously believe it Phil. I well perceive you have a Spirit of contradiction and please your self much in eluding such Arguments which our Doctors urge from Scripture and reason to prove the Doctrine of our Church touching the Invocation of Saints I will therefore take a more convincing way unto such refractory persons and plainly shew by matter of Fact and express Testimony of the Antients That this Doctrine hath bin receiv'd in the Church Catholic from the beginning Theoph. I presume you mean not from the beginning of Christianity you have heard how the attemt of your Doctors to prove it out of Gods Word hath been altogether unsuccessful and some of your Doctors have confes'd that it is delivered in Holy Scripture very obscurely and others have shew'd the reason even the humility and modesty of the Apostles which with-held them from publishing this Doctrine least they should appear to make themselves as Gods after their decease by requiring the People of God to make their Praiers and Supplications to them Seeing therefore your Doctrine is not sounded in the Holy Scripture I could give a short Answer unto your pretended usage of the Church and Testimony of the Ancient That which S t Augustin gave to Cresconius urging the Autority of Cyprian r I am not bound to the Autority of this Epistle for I do not hold the Writings of Cyprian as Canonical but judg of them by the Canonical Scripture and whatsoever is consonant to the Holy Scripture I receive with praise what agrees not with his leave 〈…〉 eject If you could prove what you have urg'd out of the Canonical Books of the Apostles and Prophets I would not contradict but seeing what you haue is not Canonical with that liberty whereunto God hath called us I do not receive his Testimony whose due Praise I can never equal with whose Writings I dare not compare mine own whose Learning I embrace whose 〈…〉 y I admire whose Martyrdom is venerable Again S t Augustin to the same effect elsewhere It is not sufficient unto the Autority of Faith and of the Dostrines of the Church to say Thus Esay or thou faist or he saith 〈◊〉 Thus saith the Lord. So the Blessed Martyr Gyprian himself We must not been what any one hath done before us but what He who is before all Ages hath taught or communded to be don Once more I could answer you out of Gratian t A Custom without the Word of God to back it is not â— B 〈…〉 quâ— T 〈…〉 scit etiamsi alia n 〈…〉 t. 〈…〉 sec 〈…〉 secundie â—hem qn 88. Art 5. Certaratione nescimus an Sancti vota 〈…〉 se 〈…〉 2. contr Cresconium c. 32. Ego hujus Epistolae c. 〈…〉 do sine verbo Lei non esse veritatem sed vetustatem erroris Truth but the Antiquity of Error The Council of Cartbage resolved thus â— The Lord said in the Gospel I am Truth He said not I am Castom Phil. Can you so easily trample upon the Autority of the Fathers You have formerly pretended much honor to the venerable Testimony of Antiquity where you conceiv'd it consonant unto your Principles and now you would decline that Touch-stone because you know full well it is against you in this Point of the Invocation of Saints Theoph. These Sentences I have produc'd are of the Fathers and seeing the Word of God doth not establish your Doctrine