to the Lord but contrariwise his obedience and that he waâ— in Christ Jesus so this was not as the bleating of the Sheep or the lowing of the Oxen neither did it shew that they were not in the City for Paul testifieth of the holy brethren which he was a Minister unto That they were come unto Mount Sion and unto the City of the living God the heavenly Jerusalem and to an innumerable company of Angels to the general Assembly and Church of the first-born whâ—ch are written in heaven and to God the Judge of all and to the spirits of just men made perfect and to Jesus the Mediator of the new Covenant and to the blood of sprinkling Now let him that hath thus accused shew how many miles these had to travel before they came to the City and whether there was any parts measures or degrees in these or whether there was absolute perfection without any measure of degrees of it and whether Paul was not come so far as these unto whom he preached wisdom even among those that were perfect and might he not in that estate say that he would not stretch himself beyond his measure But this I say none are true witnesses of perfection but those who know their measure and abide in it and likewise those that call the witnessing of the truth in a measure of the Spirit the bleating of the Sheep or the lowing of the Oxen such never knew perfection neither yet presseth after it but would keep all others from it by despiteful terms against the measure of the spirit which leadeth unto it But the day is come and the light is risen which hath found out and discovered all the cunning craftiness of men in whâ—ch they go about to deceive the hearts of the simple and beguile unstable souls but the elect seed is risen which iâ— is impossible to deceive for it is not the Scripture words which men may take and speak in the hypocrisie which can darken our knowledge nor any way hinder the testimony of truth in those which have received it in the power of God only with such things the blind may lead the blind and with such things they may strive to keep others out of the kingdom which have not tasted of the good word of God neither are brought to know a measure of God in themselves whereunto to be obedient but I see the Lord is opening a way for such to come out of the pits which they have been led into in opening their eys and letting them see that their Watchmen are blind and that understanding is departed from them even from their Leaders and the counsels of God is depâ—rted even from the ancient and the people are even like to perish for want of vision because they have not seen for themselves but their Teachers have seen for them vain visions and lying divinations and prophesied lyes causing the ignorant to believe them but the Lords hand is stretched out against such and is stretched out to gather his own seed from such to bring them into the fear of the Lord which is the beginning of wisdom and into the knowledge of the holy whithis understanding Prov. 9.10 which understanâ—ing is a Well sprinâ— of life Another seeming strength risen up against us is the conceit of the discovery of a Schism in the body as if the Band or Girdle which bound up the body were broken and as if there were now a character brought forth amongst us shewing a variety of persons doctrines and practises and as if the testimony of our being of the body of Christ from the unity in the body were ceased and as if the Heads were divided and as for proof instances G.F. to J.N. J.N. to G.F. J.B. to J.N. and as if it were not person but party which some wonder at admiring and waiting to see the Lords counsel and pleasure in it Answ. All those that wait to see the Lords counsel and pleasure and his wisdom in this thing shall see it and be satisfied and it vvill for the time to come be more for the confounding of those that vvatch for iniquity then any vvay for confirming them in iniquity and by that vvhich God hath done and is doing shall the Girdle and Band of our love be made stronger and in this shall the sight of our enemies fail and become blindness for their thoughts is not as Gods thoughts in these things neither their eye as his eye for he saw a better thing for us in these things then they have imagined for that vvhich they thought vvrought for evil hath wrought together for good unto those that stand in Gods counsel who alwayes waits to see those works which stands in his wisdomâ— contrary to mans reason for that which they thought did break that hath bound and that which they thought did separate that hath united together so that there is not a difference nor dividing of Heads not in persons nor in parties nor in doctrines not in practices but the same unity in the body in the faith in the seed in the covenant in one heart and one soul one way and worship of God in the Spirit is now as much or more then ever before witnessed so that God hath cut off occasion from those that seek occasion hath taken away the corner-stone that the wicked thought to build upon and hereby hath God tryed and discovered and brought to light that which lay in the bottom of the deepest pits for God hath brought in this his day many things forth to try prove those who said they were his people and those that a few dayes since seemed to be like Lambs do now manifest themselves to be in the nature of Lyons and ravening Wolves and those that pre-end to wait for the coming of Christ in power and had the Name of Seekers they are now found to reject his coming and to be such as watch for iniquity in those among whom Christ is come now they are turned backward and now drink up that which they had vomiâ—ed up for now if they could but finde any iniquity among such as God hath made known the glory of his power among or if they can but suppose or imagine any such thing from false conceptions conclusions this would be a sufficient ground to them to print a Book upon and publish it abroad and but that the Lord hath been on our sides well may we say when all sorts of men and religions hath risen up against us by their violence had we been consumed for the powers of darkness and all the divers worships of the Beast are now more joyned together then ever and the deepest subtilty of the Serpent is now at work in his members to devise wayes and change the Laws and times whereby the spirit might be quenched which God hath raised up in his children whereby a mighty cry is gone forth through the Nations against the Mystery of iniquity where it worketh both in
A Collection OF THE SEVERAL BOOKS AND WRITINGS OF THAT Faithful Servant of GOD Richard Hubberthorn Who finished his Testimony being a Prisoner in NEWGATE for the Truths sake the 17 th of the 6 th Month 1662. And I heard a voice from Heaven saying Blessed are the dead which hereafter dye in the Lord even so saith the Spirit that they may rest from their labours but their works shall follow them Rev. 14.13 LONDON Printed and are to be sold by William Warwick 1663. TO THE READER THe glory of the everlasting God and the Light of his powerful Truth hath so far appeared and is so effectually manifest in our day that the veil of darkness is removed from off the hearts of thousands who have received the love of the Truth as it is in Christ Jesus the everlasting Light and the life of the righteous and ugright in heart who walk in the way of the Lord and many thick clouds of darkness and error which have darkned the minds of people are dispersed by the arising and shining forth of the Sun of righteousness and the visitation of the day-spring which hath dawned from on high blessed and praised be the name of the mighty God who hath raised up unto himself a royal-seed to bear testimony of his Name in righteousness against which no weapon formed shall prosper Albeit this seed hath been largely tried and persecuted by the seed of enmity and evil-doers and sons of Belial who have made it their work to seek to obstruct the work of the Lord by persecuting his servants and reviling his faithful witnesses and reproaching and blaspheming his living â—ruth and way even till a line of confusion is come over them and they have split themselves against the rock and the stone which the builders have rejected which is exalted and set over them all And now as for these Priests and Professors who â—ave so much busied themselves in opposing and gain-saying â—he Lord's people called Quakers and those righteous Prinâ—iples and Doctrines held forth by them the work of these opâ—osers is come to nought and they have apparently missed of â—heir ends and exspectations and they have wearied themselvs â—or very vanity and they and their work is manifest to the â—ation and the folly of it in a great measure after they have â—rought forth their cause and produced their strong Reasons â—as they have esteemed them which the truth and Spirit of understanding in it's Witnesses hath evidently confuted and brought to nought And how hath shame and dishonour and Contempt in the eyes of all sober and Indifferent people come upon many of our oppressors and Adversaries the Priests and professors who after they have been striving and contending against our preaching up and vindicating the Light of Christ in every man Joh. 1.9 Rom. 1.19 and perfection and freedom from sin as attainable in this life to such as believe in Christ who is manifest for that end 1 Joh. 3. they themselves who have opposed and withstood these truths are turned into grosser darkness and confusion then ever many being turned from their pretended Reformation Covenant and Directory now to complain with the prophane that they have done those things they ought not to have done and left undone those things which they ought to have done and there is no health in them and so now they cry Lord have mercy upon us miserable sinners or miserable offenders c. as in their divine service so called which formerly they exclaimed against who now are turned to it So as it 's come to pass upon them as upon the false prophets and hireling priests of old Night is unto them the Sun is gone down upon them and the day is become dark over them and the seers are ashamed and the diviners confounded for there is no Answer of God nor vision unto them many of whom have preached and prophesied falsly against us and of our overthrow tilâ— they are overturned themselves Micah 3. and many thaâ— have been as emâ—nent Leaders overseers and tall Cedars amongst the outside and form all professors of our times arâ— fled as the hireling that cares for himself more then the flock and their mouths are stopt and they ready to hide themselves when those they account wolves devourers anâ— superstitious persons comes amongst their flocks manifestinâ— that they are not true shepherds nor built upon the Rock Chriâ—â— Jesus for their profession will not abide the storms nor enduâ—â— the Winter so as much of our work and controversies wilâ— such our Antagonists is over for they were the highest aâ— most contentious against us where the Truth and power â— God first appeared amongst us to gather us out from â—mongst them unto Christ the true shepherd and when they could have â—he Magistrates and powers of the earth on their side as to prosecute for them and to feed them with the wages of unrighteousness and maintain them in Balaams way And now the righteous testimony of the servants of the Lord liveth and remains as upon Record against the unrighteousness and falshood of such and in particular the faithfull testimonys and true evidences given for the truth and held forth by that faithfull servant and follower of Chrâ—st and brother and Companion in the work of the Gospel R. Hubberâ—horne Concerning whom I hearing that some have taken in hand to Recollect as many of his Books as they could to be Reprinted it is in my heart by the spirit of the Lord and in true love to his truth to signifie these things in short to be annexed unto them for the sake of the world and such as knew him not having had more conveâ—se with him and experience and knowledge of him then many others had 1. That he was a true and faithfull Instrument in the hand of the Lord in his day for the turning many from darkness to the light and from error to truth First by informing instructing and admonishing people to the light of Christ which appeareth and shineth in the hearts and consciences of the children of men and against the darkness pollutions falfe ways professions and worships of the world c. Secondly by preaching and holding forth the new and living way the substance and end of figures and shaddows which many in the darkness of apostacy have been Doting about and the true saving knowledg of God and his Son Jesus Christ within his people to become their Wisdom Righteousness sanctification and redemption and in which they come to experience the justification of life according to the Witness given by the primitive saints Christians and true witnesses of Christ. 2. And the gift of God bestowed upon him the saâ—d R. H. was very pretious honorable clear lives with us in our Remembrance hearts thereby he was made a faithfull Contender for the living faith which was once delivered unto the saints which stands in the power of God worketh by love giveth the Creature victory
external stuff pours out which hath poisoned many people which thou sayest thou shouldest open the Gospel withall all that have the least convincement may see thee to be a seducer for what is external is natural and what is natural knows not the things of God but the Lord be praised thou hast declared thy self abroad Qu. 12. Whether any Ministers of God were made Ministers by the wil of man yea or no Shew it me by the Scripture Pr. And in thy answer to this Query thou sayest There is 〈◊〉 Minister of God made by the will of man onely but by man in subordination Rep. Here thou crossest the Scripture Paul an Apostle not of man nor by man And here the lying spirit hath shewed it self indeed Pr. And thou sayest There is no such hope of any such calling as was in the time of the Apostles Rep. And here thou hast cast thy self and thy fellowâ— and all thy study to be without the Doctrine and Life of the Apostles for thou concludest there is no such calling yet thou talkest of laying on hands there thou and you are making likenesses which is forbidden and to be confounded and so we conclude and all the children of Light shall judge that your Hope and your Calling and your Ministry made by the will of man and not only by God to be without God and conarary to the Apostles Qu. 13. Shew me by the Scripture whether a man shall grow up to that condition that he need no man to teach him but the Lord or no Pr. We must not look for any immediate extraordinary miraculous teaching by revelation from the Lord and yet all men are taught of God too Rep. What confused stuff is this and blasphemy that comes out of thy bottle Thou wouldest make God not an immediate doth not God teach immediate Here thou shewest that thou dost not know the living God for the teaching of God is immediate in the least degree Pr. None aims to such a perfection of knowledge in his gifts as not to need teaching Rep. Here I charge thee to be a Lyar who speaks contrary to the Scripture and here I charge thee in the presence of the living God to be a slanderer who speaks of being taught of the Lord Jesus Christ outwardly by the spirit what confused stuff is this and here again I charge thee to be a lyar for the words of our Lord Jesus Christ are spirit and life but such as thou who lookest upon the outward thing cannot receive his words though you have the letter of the Gospel as they had the letter of the Law Quest. 14. Whether they be not Antichrists and disobey Christ that have the chief places in the assembliâ—â— stand praying in the synagogues which Christ did forbid his disciples to act such things and cried wo against those that did act them In thy answer to this querie thou ramblest up and down with many words to justifie that which Christ cried wo against to justifie the chiefest place in the Assemblies and to be called of men Master and for standing praying in the Synagogues which Christ pronounced wo against and so let all the people see if thou and you be not such as are called of men Masters and stand praying in the Synagogues which the wo was and is upon Mat. 23. and there is neither shelter nor hole for thee to hide thy self for them that walk in the truth will find thee out and praised be the Lord God of heaven and earth who hath given us a spirit of discerning and we are able to judge you who live in deceit for the Apostle prophesied with the spirit of the Lord that such should come and we see with the same spirit you are come and with the same spirit you are judged Quest. 15. Whether they be not Antichrists and of the Devil and no Ministers of Christ which do not abide in the Doctrine of Christ Pr. They that swerve from the Doctrine of Christ are of the spirit of Antichrist Rep. There thou art this is thy own condition who deniest immediate revelation and thou that deniest immediate revelation deniest Christ for Paul said the Son was revealed in him and so all that thou speakest is with the lying spirit in the wicked generation and whereas thou slanderest and sayest we rail that is false And again thou speakest of love because the letter declares it but the love of God who dwells in it to such thou art an enemy and as touching using plainness of speech to people because we do not flatter or use enticing words of mens wisdom which thou dost so thou hast cleared thy self from the children of God and to be in the generation of them that swerve from the doctrine of Christ who seekest to justifie that which he cried wo against aâ— Mat. 23. And whereas thou accusest us for railing upon people thou art a liar for love useth plainness of speech and love and charity is out of deceit if we should flatter we should hold it up and should be pleading for thy generation who talks of God and confesses that you have not the same knowledge and understanding that the Apostles had Therefore how can you know God then And whereas thou speakest of trying the spirits the fruits of it is love here with the spirit of love is thy generation tried for when the servants of the Lord have been moved to come into your Synagogues some have been stockt and wounded and imprisoned and hailed out of your synagogues And is this the fruits of your spirit Qu. 16. Whether they be not seducers that draw people from the anointing which is in them and tell them they must be taught of a man whereas the anointing teaches them they need no man teach them but as the anointing teacheth them and the promise is to him that doth abide in it eternally Pr. Many false Prophets are gone forth Rep. Here thou hast proved thy self to be a false Prophet who denies immediate revelation for whom the Lord sent forth he spoke to them immediately which thou deniest and there thou art one of the false Prophets which thou speakest of and knows nothing of the anointing who deceives the simple and ignorant the world may wonder after such but who are in the light and receive any thing immediate will see thee in the dark to be a deceiver for none in thy generation can witness that you need no man teach you but the anointing for who doth are come out from your teaching and you both And as touching Sects them we deny as thou speakest in thy answer to the fifteenth Querie therefore do we see thee with that which is no Sect to be colouring and deluding people telling them thy error is truth who quotes and misappliest the Scripture to maintain thy falshood Pr. The flesh is quickned with the spirit of life to bring forth some kind of fleshly fruits 1 King 8.46 Joh. 14.4 Prov. 20.9 1 Joh. 1.8 10 Eccles. 7.22
was and the place of her abode and answer was made to both then they asked What their business was to Oxford they answered They were commanded of the Lord to come thither they asked What to do they answered To declare against sin and ungodliness which they lived in as pride covetousness lust and all uncleanness self-righteousness and all false worship which both Priest and people lived in contrary to the commands of God Then they asked them How they knew they were called of God they said They knew the voice of God and that they were called of God And this is to be observed as a true testimony of these two servants of the Lord that they did neither beg nor steal neither did they wrong nor violence to any man they coveted no mans silver gold nor apparel but because they obeyed the word of the Lord and did his work faithfully speaking the word of the Lord in boldness against the deceits of the Priests and people in the Streets in the Market-place in the Synagogues and in the Colledges clearing and discharging their consciences in the Lords work and service freely administring that which they had freely received from the Lord of whom they do receive their reward for their reward is with them and the presence of the Lord God doth accompany them and for their obedience to the Lord they receive the shame of the world as ever the servants of the Lord did who were mocked buffâ—tted and shamefully used being tied together at Johns Colledge and pumped and kicked and buffetted and thrust into a pool called Giles's pool so that they went into a remote place to wash the dirt off their cloathes And here both Magistrates and Schollers and they who pretend to be Ministers of the Gospel are the chiefest actors in this persecution and so do make themselves manifest to be in the same generation of the Scribes and Pharisees and Hypocrites who were ever persecutors of the righteous seed whomever it hath brought forth and so they fill up the measure of their fathers iniquities Again as concerning the Justices being assembled the Vice-chancellor being the chief actor in this persecution said That they blasphemed the name of God and did abuse the Spirit of God and dishonour the grace of Christ and asked the women Whether they did read the Scriptures they answered Yea they did then they asked them Whether they were not to be obedient to the power of the Magistrate they answered They were obedient to the power of God and to the power as it was of God their souls were subject unto it for consâ—ience sake Well said the Vice-chancellor you prophane the word of God and I fear you know not God though you so much speak of him And then they concluded that there was matter enough for their commitment and punishment and wished the women to withdraw consenting that a paper should be drawn up for their being whipped out of the City And when the paper was drawn up it was presented to the Major to set his hand to it but the said Major refused and said He was not willing to do it but one of the Justices said That it was the privilâ—â—ge of the City that if any vagrant were taken within the Franchises and liberties of the City the paper must be drawn up That I such a one Major have committed such and such persons and then it is to be sealed with the Office seal but the Major answered That he would refuse both then others said who were zealous and thought that they had done God good service That if he would not it should be done by them and it was agreed upon that they should be soundly whipped and that for the present because of the tumult be put into the cage And the next morning their wills was performed though with much unwillingness in the executioner Many other particulars might be mentioned of their sufferings afflictions and patience under reproachings revilings slanders and false accusations cast upon them which is the portion of the righteous in the world as Christ said Blessed are you when men shall revile you and persecute and speak all manner of evil against you falsly for my names sake rejoyce and be exceeding glad for great is your reward in heaven for so persecuted they the Prophets that were before you Mat. 5.11 12. and saith Christ They shall put you out of the synagogues yea the time cometh that whosoever killeth you will think that he doth God service and these râ—â—â—gs will â—hey do unto you because they know not the Father nor me Joh. 16.2 3 4. Aâ—â— nâ—w both sons and daughters of the Lord comes to witness these â—hings fulfilled and you Magistrates Priests and people do fulfil the Scriptures against the servants of the living God as you have done against these And herein is made manifest your tyranny and persecution the chief Priest being the chief actor in it yet there was many in the City that have so much of the light of Christ made manifest in them as to acknowledge them to be servants of the living God and to own them in their sufferings and to confess the appearance of Christ in them before men and in love did accompany them out of the City and did own them in their persecution And this testimony is true to testifie to all people and to all the world the cruelty of unreasonable men and that the Major had no hand in any of this cruel usage and persecution The names of the two women who suffered persecution for righteousness sake is Elizabeth Heavens and Elizabeth Fletcher R.H. Two Letters written by R. H. during his imprisonment in Norwich Castle From Norwich Castle TO all my dear friends whom the Lord by his eternal spirit is gathering out of the World into the covenant of Life to be of one heart and mind and soul. Wait all in that which is pure and invisible that the pure teachings of Christ you may know every one in particular which is without form and beauty to the visible that nothing you may receive but that which speaks from the eternal moving of the living God have salt in your selves to savour with all words you may discern which is without life and power and standing single in that which is pure of God all such deny to be your teachers which have the words of truth but live not in the life and power of what they say so in the power of the living God wait in silence of all flesh and here comes that which hath been fed to be famisht and that which hungers after God comes to receive living nurture and nourishment from God So in the invisible comes to feed upon the bread of life which comes from heaven and the tender plants will come to grow up unto eternal life and fruit will be brought forth unto God dwelling in that which is invisible and all untimely fruit will wither and fade away but keeping low in the light
he hath affiâ—med And again consider that Heaven is God's Throne and the place of his rest And whether God can dwell in the Heavens and have no unity with them with his own Throne and with the place of his rest And consider whether there was ever such a doctrine preached or believed among the sons of men from Abel unto this day there is no record of such a Doctrine neither in the Scriptures Histories Heathens Pagans nor others therefore it is now fit to be recorded or put in Chronicle that all may see what a doctrine is crept into the World and that all may see that Night is come upon all such Prophets that they have no vision nor knowledge of God nor his wayes And this is the man that hath set himself to oppose and gainsay the truth and is a daily reproacher of those that walk in it yet professeth himself to be a Minister of Christ and those whose hearts are upright towards God is he reviling comparing them to Papists Hereticks Scribes and Pharises Indians and such like but to none of those in these things before-mentioned neither to Scribe Pharisee Pope Turk Indian or Alcaron can he be compared for they have been all restrained by something of God in them from writing so blasphemously against God and Christ and the Holy Ghost the Soul Heaven and Union and the Saints as he hath done And so this is another Gospel than that which was preached by Christ and his Apostles and so by the Spirit of God to be accursed for ever And whereas he saith That the union between God and believers cannot be comprehended by the Saints here he charges a lye upon the Saints and speaks contrary to the Scriptures 1 Joh. 1.7 1 Joh. 4.15 1 Joh. 5.20 for the Saints did witnesse union with God here for he that sanctified and they that are sanctified were one they said they were of God and the whole World lyeth in wickedness as he is so are we in this present World they comprehend with all Saints the heighth and length and the breadth of the love of God while they are in the world Now whoever would have believed it that the teachers in England had been so blind or durst have spoken so contrary to the Scriptures they professing them so much to be their rule and learning so long and studying so much to get the Letter of them but now is found both out of the Letter and Life but now the day of God is risen in his peoples hearts and they are seen to be such before their books come forth and now that which they were judged to be before they published themselves in print comes forth that all the world may see that the judgment of God is true from his servants upon them and that all the Rulers of the Nation may see that such are not fit to be held up but be cried against and if any should by a Law give such the tenth parts of mens estates they may expect that by the righteous Law of God ten parts of theirs may be taken away and given to strangers so if any people maintain this doctrine they maintain that which the curse of God comes upon and if they come not out from it will be partakers of the plague And again as concerning Hell Clapham saith that men are not in Hell while they are upon earth And here is another lye Answ. The Prophet said while he was upon earth thou hast redeemed my soul out of hell and Jonah said Out of the belly of hell cryed I unto thee and so the believers doctrine was contrary to Claphams for they knew both heaven and hell while they were upon earth and a redeeming out of the one into the other by Jesus Christ. Again he accuseth Peter saying that he speaks of the divine Nature being communicated to the Saints but understands divine graces Answ. The Apostle doth not speak one thing and understand another as the Priests do for he speaks with the Spirit and with understanding and knows how to divide the word of God aright who spoke unto them that had escaped the corruption which is in the world through lust and knew what it was to be partakers of the divine nature but herein the wickedness of this Priest is manifest who would keep people from being made partakers of the divine Nature and would shut up the kingdom of heaven from men while they are upon earth Again he accuseth the Corinthians in the 33. page of his book to be the ancient Hereticks who were baptized for the dead Ans. Those who were baptized for the dead was no Hereticks neither did they deny the resurrection of the dead though Paul said How say some among you that there is no Resurrection of the dead yet he did not call those that were baptised for the dead Hereticks for those that were baptised for the dead and stood in jeopardy every hour did believe the resurrection of the dead and did wait for it and did not deny it as Clapham saith who hath proceeded on in his book with many of the like false accusations against us also but it is a small matter for us to be judged by such a one for herein is but Christs words fulfilled As they have done unto me so shall they do unto you for neither Christ nor the Apostles nor the Church of God hath escaped his accusation for Luk. 6.26 Wo unto you saith Christ when all men speak well of you for so did they of the false Prophets but blessed are you when men shall speak all manner of evil against you falsly for my names sake for great shall your reward be in heaven now though against us all manner of evil be spoken falsly in the Book before mentioned yet in truth do we stand out of it all and over it all and our accuser is found in the evil and vve clear And as for the 13. Sect. wherein he hath wearied himself for very vanity hath he proved nothing against us but against himself in which he hath said that we are enemies to the holy Scriptures and deny Christ come in the flesh also his death and resurrection and that we have said that Christs flesh perished and that we own not the man Christ in the Heavens as pag. 11. and chargeth us to say that he did not ascend into heaven is not at the right hand of God shall not come to judge the world pag. 12. Again Whereas Clapham saith we deny prayer the Lords Supper and Water-baptism and giving of thanks at meals and singing of Psalms Ans. This is false as his own writing and confession will witness against him which in a former Letter said that I prayed three times at one Meeting and now in this book saith we deny prayer Here confusion is grown into impudency and lyes are made his proofs Again he saith we deny the â—ords Supper yet confesseth we own eding on Christs flesh Now Christ saith
holy 1 Pet. 1.16 And this is not a doctrine of Devils but of Christ the Son of God and Paul preached Wisdom among those that were perfect 1 Cor. 2 6. and David preached the Doctrine of perfection in this life saying Mark the perfect man and behold the upright for the end of that man is peace Psal. 37.37 Now David did not bid them mark such a man as there was not So the Doctrine of perfection is that Doctrine which both the Prophets Christ and Apostles preached and so not the Doctrine of Devils if we preach the same but all those that preach up sin and that men must live in it and that they cannot be free from it while upon earth these are Messengers of Satan and preach the Doctrine of Devils and people need not that doctrine for they are willing enough to live in sin without having it preached up and being strengthened in it and that makes them so willing to pay the Priests such Wages for calling the proud happy and those that work wickedness Saints and justified persons for without such Wages not a priest in England would preach peace to them in their sins but they would all be silent for if people come once to know Christ their Teacher and he in them the hope of glory who saves his people from their sins then no man wil buy their merchandize any more but wil come all to hear and learn of the Father and come to witness his Covenant and his Teachings and shall not need that one teach another saying Know the Lord for all shall know him from the least to the greatest Heb. 8.11 And this shall all come to witness that come to be translated into the Kingdom of the dear Son of God and then shall they come to witness his Words who is the Lord from Heaven who saith Be ye perfect as your Father which is in Heaven is perfect and be ye holy for I am holy And this is the voice from Heaven The real Cause of the Nations Bondage and Slavery here demonstrated and the way of their freedom from their sore and hard Bondage asserted Presented unto the Parliament of the Common-wealth of England who have a Power and Opportunity put into their hands to do good and to fulfil the expected ends of many if they improve it From one that hath seen the corruption which bondageth the whole Creation and that waits for the redemption of the creature from under it R. H. I will restore thy Judges as at the first and thy Counsellors as at the beginning afterwards thou shalt be called the City of Righteousness the faithful City Isa. 1.26 Not before When this is fulfilled in England it shall be truly called a free Nation or Commonwealth Not before THere hath been a time when the prudent hath kept silence but now Wisdom hath opened her mouth and will be justified of all her children for the Lord is reviving the spirit that hath been imprisoned and taking the yoke from off the Disciples necks and is going on in the Name of his Power to make his creature a free creature and his people a free people and the Nation that serves him and obeys his Law a free Nation and the thunderings of his power is gone forth and his Light is risen to discover and destroy that which hath deceived the Nations and to give a discerning unto all of their freedom from their bondage and in what it stands and that is to be cast out which gendereth to the bondage of the Soul Spirit or Conscience in any exercise of Worship or obedience unto God which springs from the measure of his own life which must not be hindered or quenched by any Law Power or pretence whatsoever Therefore from the free Spirit of Life and Liberty in Christ Jesus this is proclaimâ—â— to the whole Nation and the Nations round about to take off their bondage and to take away their reproach which hath lain upon them for want of the life of Christ which is now risen to do its own work and perfect its own praise and to deliver its own Seed wheresoever it hath been in captivity the power of life must deliver it from all that which causeth shame and reproach which is the iniquity and transgression of the Life of Christ which is the original cause of bondage to every Nation which the Lord hath promised to take away in one day Zac. 3 9. And his Work and Power shall be known by its fruit which is to take away theâ—r sin Isa. 27.9 One great yoke of bondage which is upon the Subjectâ— and Seed of God in this Nation and others is that Ministry which is not free neither wil minister without money and the people are not free to hear them yet a yoke of bondage is laid upon them to pay them and this iniquity is established by a Law So here is neither free preaching nor free hearing unto which the free Spirit raised up in this Nation declareth thus That every one that will minister must do it freely and as of the ability which God giveth him and as the Oracle of God and that no profession of people may maintain anothers Minister but that there may be a free preaching and a free hearing among all people that so it may be a free Nation and they that will have Teachers according to their own lusts and judgements they to maintain them and that there may never any such iniquity be established by a Law as for one sort of people to maintain anothers Minister for this hath caused heart-burnings envy and strife insomuch that little Justice could be done for the Nation by reason of the cry of complainers and oppressors as at every Parliament every high Court every Assizes and Sessions and petty Courts there hath some pretended Minister or other been presenting Addresses Petitions or Complaints and so have stopt the just and lawful proceedings of the affairs of the Nation which interruption may easily be prevented and the Courts of Justice freed from such brawling and unreasonable complaints which hath been more interruption to Justice than any thing in the Nation besides and hath more hindered the peoples deliverance from being a free people and a free Nation than any thing in the Nation besides So let every form and profession of Religion maintain their own Minister and maintain their poor which are crying at their Meeting-house doors and in the Streets in the Name of their God for some relief that so there may not be a beggar in England for herein the Christians in name are become even a reproach among the Heathens to see their own flesh stand naked and uncovered in the streets and Steeple-house doors and at their doors and they turn their ears from the poor and forget God and loses the bowels of compassion and are not merciful as the Father which is in Heaven is merciâ—ul and so walks not according to the Scriptures but is a disgrace to Religion
thee withall to guide thy mind into the fear of God to the Light of Christ in thy conscience I speak which if thou hearken unto it it will lead thee out of pride and lust and envy and will bring condemnation upon that nature thou hast lived and acted in that is out of the fear of God and hearkening to this Light in thy conscience it will direct thy mind to God and draw thy mind and affections out of earthly things and the pollutions of the world by which thou art defiled thy mind and conscience is defiled by lust and unâ—leanness lusting after earthly things and the flesh is defiled by that mind â—hat wallows in the Earth Now minding the Light in thy conscience Christ hath enlightned thee withall thy understanding will come to be enâ—ightned to see the deceipts and the blind Guides which have led thee â—rom this Light in thy Conscience which should exercise it and lead thee â—o go to fear him and to be taught of him and will lead thee from the â—eachings of man which keeps thee in thy sins and draws thee from this Light in thy Conscience which convinceth thee of sin and lets thee see sin â—nd evil and all ungodliness and will bring thee to deny it and lead thee 〈◊〉 repentance and so thou wilt come to know Jesus Christ which gives â—epentance and remission of sins and then thou wilt deny Priest Sherlock â—nd all that generation of Priests who saith in thâ— 32. page of his Book â—hat Christ was a person not capable of Faith and Repentance And here I â—o charge him in the presence of the living God to be a lyar for he is â—he author and finisher of faith and he preached repentance and gives repentance to his people And he denies the knowledge and understanding the Apostles had and yet saith he preaches the same Gospel pag. 10. And saith That external Tongues Arts and Sciences gives them to understand the meaning of the Gospel p. 11. And saith That the spirit causeth fleshly fruits p. 22. and saith That to understand the Doctrine of God they must use the light of distinctions p. 54. and saith That Religion is the Art of Arts p 86. And saith That Prayer in all the parts and species thereof is a means to fetch down the holy spirit of God p. 144. When as the Saints said the Spirit taught them to pray and that they prayed with the spirit and with understanding Now to the Light in your consciences I speak which will let you see these lying Priests and blind guides which have deceived you so long and kept you blind and ignorant So all people cease from them and wait upon the Lord for teaching A lover of the Truth and a witness against the deceit and deceivers and a lover of the souls of all people and that righteousness might be established was I moved tâ— write this Richard Hubberthorn Quest. 1. WHether your Gospel be the same which the Apostles preached And if it be why go you to Oxford and Cambridge when the Apostle saith the Gospel that he preached was not after man neither was he taught it by man Pr. Thy answer is You preach the same Gospel the Apostles preached but do not attain the knowledge and understanding of this Gospel by the same means Rep. Here let all people see what wooden stuff this is How can you preach the same Gospel and have not the same knoâ—ledge and understanding If it be not by the sâ—â—e knowledge and understanding it is not the same Gospel for the spirit oâ— understanding is but one and from this Spirit of underâ—tanding thou hast cleared thy self Pr. And thou sayest You ought not to depend upon any such immâ—diate Revelations from Heaven as the Apostles had Rep. Here again thou hast cleared thy self from the Spirit thâ—â— gave forth the Scriptures who deniest immediate Revelation from Heaven And here thou hast denied thy self to be anâ— Minister of Jesus Christ for no man knows the Son but the Father and he to whom he is revealed And thou that deniest immediate revelation thou hast denied the Son of God and hast shewed that thou hast not life for he that hath not the Son of God hath not life And therefore we deny such Schools as Oxford and Cambridge where the rudiments of the world are invented And abundance of filthy words are in the Answer to this Query that are not worth mentioning Qu. 2. Whether you can give another meaning to the Scriptures than they are Or whether the Apostles did give the meaning to them when they spoke them forth yea or nay And if they did what need learned men give the meaning of them Pr. And in thy answer thou sayest The sence and meaning of the Scripture is involved in it Rep. Here thou wouldest make people believe Christ were in the Letter who is the substance that gave it forth and was in them that spoke it forth for the Scripture doth declare another thing of God and Christ it doth not declare God and Christ is in the Letter but here it is that fools might appear blind and such as thou sayest learned men must give the meaning to the Scripture Pr. And thou sayest That Christ took a Text and that Philip took a Text. Rep. O thou enemy and slanderer of Christ and the Apostle Did they take Texts to get money with them and to lie a quarter of a year or half a year in a Text Christ came to fulfil the Scripture and the Apostle shewed how Christ fulfilled the Scripture and came to fulfil that which the Prophet spoke The Scribes and Pharisees were learned men and they could not open the Scriptures Peter an unlearned man he opened the Scriptures Pr. And thou speakest of standing up in a Pulpit of wood Rep. In the time of the Law when they read it there was a Pulpit of wood to a particular people to whom the Law was given but Christ said Go preach the Gospel to every creature And Christ cryed wo against them that had the chiefest place in the Assemblies And here thou art one of them that would be under the Law and would have a Pulpit of wood and pleadest for thy learning that the Scribes and Pharisees were in which is to no purpose who saith the kernel of the Nut is in the shell and that comparison thou bringest to make people believe that the Life is in the Sâ—riptures and so the poor people are groping in the Letter to find life there when the life was in them that gave it forth Pr. Thou speakest of flying to God by prayer Rep. Yet thou deniest the Revelation from Heaven which the Saints were to wait for the Revelation of Jesus from Heaven and this makes all you blind guides to stumble because you have not the life which gave forth the Scripture which now is made manifest to the children of God Qu. 3. Shew me by the Scriptures who ever was made a Minister of
Jesus Christ that was called of men Master In thy answer to this Query thou bringest the Prophets and Priests under the Law called Fathers to oppose Christ's doctrine Thou wouldst compare Oxford and Cambridge to such as the Prophets and Apostles yet thou deniest immediate Revelation from Heaven And here thou hast cleared thy self and Oxford Cambridge from the life of the Prophets for they had immediate revelation And so thou bringest many names as Pastors and Shepherds and Ministers and Apostles and Evangelists to oppose Christ's Doctrine who saith Be not you called of men Master So let all see if they be not under the delusion who say Master is a civil honor and so opposeth Christ's Doctrine Here thou hast shewed thou dost not believe For how can you believe that receive honor one of another and shewest that thou lovest it as the Scribes and Pharisees did and would not part with it and art in thy pride and vain-glory as the Scribes and Pharisees were who say that is a civil honor and respect which Christ cryed wo against And herv thou hast brought thy self and all thy company under the wo and Oxford and Cambridge in the state which Christ pronounced wo against and thou art judged with the same life that gave forth the Scriptures Qu. 4. Shew me by the Scriptures where ever the Ministers of Christ took Tythes of the people or Augmentations In thy answer thou saist The Priests under the Law received Tyâ—hes Rep. There was a time that they received Tythes they might not neglect them as denying their Tythes to the first Priesthood There was a time after Christ when he was sacrificed up that he was preached the unchangeable Priesthood Heb. 7. then the Priesthood which received tythes was denyed therefore the wo is come upon thee and all thy generation who receive tythes according to the changeable Priesthood Here thou hast shewed thy self without judgement and rhe love of God and the wo is come upon thee and all thy generation who receive tythes and hold up the changeable Priesthood and so deny Christ come in the flesh They that preached the Gospel who lived on the Gospel denied the changeable Priesthood who received Tythes but for shame you Ministers of Oxford and Cambridge stop your mouths for they must be stopt do not you sue men at the Law and imprison men for Tythes And here you shew you do not preach the Gospel for it will not maintain you for them that preached the Gospel lived on the Gospel There thou thief art taken who hath gotten the Apostles words who art for judgement Qu. 5. Shew me by the Scriptures and what Scripture have you which speaks of the word Sacrament which you tell the people of and deceive the simple Pr. And in thy Answer to this Query thou art confused First thou sayest there is no Scripture for the word Sacrament and yet thou sayest Christ commands it and yet thou sayest there is not such a word in Scripture Rep. Here thou which addest to it hast brought thy self under the plagues and wo. And here let all who are in the Light see if thou art not a deceiver who deceives thy soul. I charge thee again that thou knowest not Christ for thou deniest immediate revelation so thou knowest not his commands nor dost not obey them for none know the Son but to whom he is revealed And here I charge thee to be a deceiver and a deluder of the soul from the Lord. This is in reply to the answer of the fifth Query Qu. 6. Shew me what Scripture you have which speaks that the Apostles sprinkled Infants Thou bringest the Scriptures as Christ saith Suffer little children to come unto me and forbid them not for of such is the Kingdom of God And this thou bringest to justifie sprinkling Infants for circumcision outwardly was a type of circumcision inwardly So thou hast not a word in the Scripture to maintain it but thou ramblest up and down and perverts many Scriptures in which there is not such a word for it And here I charge thee in the presence of the living God to be a lyar for Christ never commanded sprinkling Infants neither is it any Ordinance of Christ neither is there any example among the holy men of God that ever it was practised the plagues of God are added to thee Let all people see if there be any word for sprinkling Infants let the scriptures which thou bringest judg thee Luke 18.15 Jer. 15.6 Luk. 1.66.80 Act. 10.47 Here I charge thee with all these scriptures to be a lyar and they shall judge theâ— which thou hast brought for sprinkling of Infants let the Reader of thy Book examine the scriptures and find thee a Lyar and all thy dirty stuff which thou hast gathered from them is to be trodden under foot with the children of the Light who witness baptism and circumcision and new birth born again and all who are here do see thee to be blind deaf and a fool and there thou mayest read thy self Let all people see thee here who art without the life of the scripture who deniest immediate revelation from Heaven which the Apostles witnessed and the Prophets for without God thou art eternally I witness it Qu. 7. Shew me what Scripture you have to stand praying in the Synagogues before Sermon and after and whether the Apostles did so In thy answer to this query thou bringest the Apostles words which said pray alwayes to justifie standing praying in the Synagogues and having the chiefest place in the Assemblies which Christ cryed wo against And here I charge thee to be a false Prophet who puts no difference betwixt the Apostle and the Pharisees though he said the Temple which Solomon built him it was a house of prayer Christ said there should not be one stone of it left upon another when Christ Jesus was witnessed Stephen for witnessing him was stoned to death And here thou hast shewed thou hast no judgement and errs not knowing the Scripture And as for Christ's whipping them out of the Temple read thy self to the Light in thy Conscience I speak and so all thy praying before thy Sermon and after as thou callest it in the Synagogues in the chiefest place of the Assemblies the wo which Christ pronounced against thy Fathers hath light upon the son thou who art found in the same place let Matth. 23. judge thee the life which gave forth these words the life of these words is upon thee and so all thy prayers are abomination to the Lord God in the state thou art in and the praying of the Saints who were moved by the spirit thou hast cleared thy self from for thou deniest immediate Revelation from Heaven and how canst thou pray and not with the spirit And here let all people judge and see what thy prayers are if thou be not in the state of the Pharisees who deny immediate revelation and to be one that is blind
thou deniest that deniest immediate Revelation from heaven And here I charge thee in the presence of the living God to be a lyar and false Prophet and that thou art guided by the Father of lies Where thou tells of Elisha's Colledge and saist that it was so full that it was enlarged and bringest in that place of Scripture to colour over thy lyes 2 King 6.1 Let that Scripture be a witness against thee that thou artâ— lyar and a perverter of the Scriptures thou full of all subtilties blush for shame thou lyar is there any mention of any Colledge there Or is there any mention of the Schools of the Prophets where the Word of God was studied in those places of Scripture before-mentioned as thou sayest Let them witness against thee All the Prophets were taught of God and there was no studying for what they spoke at Naioth see if they did not receive the Spirit of Prophesie and spoke by immediate Revelation which thou denies knows not their manner of teaching and learning 1 Sam. 19 20. to the end of the chap. And the Prophesie came not in the old time by the will of man but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the holy Ghost and the Scâ—ipture is of no private interpretation 2 Pet. 1.20 21. Here art thou proved a lyar and a perverter of the Scripture wresting it to thy own destruction 2 Pet. 3.16 Now call not Truth railing thou dissembler and enemy of all righteousness the Scripture turns edge against thee and witnesses against thy deceit and filthiness whereby thou seeks to strangle the truth but thou art found out to be among the dogs sorcerers and lyars spoken of in Scripture and art shut out of the Kingdom of God and art no Minister of Christ Rev. 22.15 18 19. Thou Enemy of God how darest thou say that the Prophets studied the Word when no prophesie came by the will of man but by the will of God and no man knoweth the Father but the Son neither knoweth any man the Son but the Father and he to whom is revealed Maâ—th 11.27 And here thou deniest both the Father and the Son and the Prophets and Apostles that deniest immediate revelation for they all bear witness against thee and such as thou art for the Apostle said Hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ And all the true Prophets witness that which thou deniest And here I have proved thee a lyar a false prophet and a deceiver perverting the Scriptures and they bear witness with me And thou full of all guile and deceit the word of the Lord shall rise up in judgement against thee and such as thou art Something in reply to thy Discourse of the Spirit as thou callest it FRiend the Spirit of the living God thou hast not for thou deniest immediate Revelation from Heaven who art discoursing of the Spirit and here thou art made manifest but to be in the pretence of the spirit and knows nothing that is revealed with the spirit For thou that deniest immediate revelation from Heaven deniest the spirit of the living God The Apostle saith Eye hath not seen ear hath not heard neither hath it entered into the heart of man the things that God hath prepared for them that love him but God hath revealed them to us by his Spirit 1 Cor. 2 9 10. And here thou hast denied immediate revelation from Heaven hast denied the spirit of God and manifested thy self to be in the natural state Therefore I command thee and charge thee in the presence of the living God to be silent and to give over receiving of the people 2. Thou that denies immediate revelation from Heaven thou denies the grace that was to be brought unto the Saints whose minds were to be girded up which grace was to be brought unto them at the revelation of Jesus Chrisr And thiâ— thou hast denied again as all people may see 1 Pet. 1.13 and here thou hast denyed Jesus Christ and his grace who deniest immediate revelation and art in the fashion of the world and a blasphemer 3. Thou that hast denied immediate revelation from heaven hast denied the Spirit to pray withal and so all thy prayers are hyyocrisie 4. Thou that hast denied immediate revelation from heaven hast denied the Son of God For none knows the Father but the Son and he to whom the Son reveals him Mat. 11.27 5 And thou that hast denied immediate and miraculous revelation from Heaven hast not denied the Son of God onely but the Father also And thou that haâ—t not the Son of God hast not life Pr. The power is originally from God as the Fountain but conveyed through the Ministry of man as the conduit p. 90. Rep. Paul an Apostle not of man nor by man but by the will of God And here thou art proved to be a seducet and thy Ministry contrary to his here thy spirit is tryed And thou slanders them who hear the voice of God and art scorning them and in a deriding way calls it a deceitful eccho but we know that God scorns the scornful and hath them in derision Pr. For any man to pretend immediate calling from God without the Ministry of man is a new Gospel distinct from Christ and his Apostles and such can be no other then ths dictates of seducing spirits and doctrine of devils p. 9. Rep. Here I take all the children of Light to record to prove and try thy Spirit and Gospel to be of man and whether thy Ministry and Gospel which thou preachest which is of man be of God For Paul said that Gospel which he preached was not of man And here again thou art contrary to the Apostle and thy spirit is tryed to be a seducing spirit and thy Doctrine to be of the Devil who deniest immediate revelation Pr. For thou sayest That which is immediately from God and without the Ministry of man is the doctrine of the Devil and of the seducing spirits Rep. Paul said the Gospel that he preached he received it not of man but by the revelation of Jesus Christ and here thou art contrary to the Apostle and thy self in the state thou speaks of And Paul an Apostle not of man nor by man but by God the Father Thou impudent enemy of God and blasphemer wilt thou say his doctrine was of the Devil who denied man as Gal. 1.1 who said Paul an Apostle not of man nor by man Pr. Therefore there is no need of any such qualifications for the best of us dare not stand to such sublime and eminent gifts of the spirit or to any immediate and extraordinary spiritual gifts p. 93 94. Rep. Here thou preachest up that which is not qualified for we do believe you that you dare not stand to such eminent gifts of the spirit for we have tryed you and know your spirits how can you have the same gifts who deny the
tares which men gather which must be bound in bundles and cast into the fire for what is the Chaff to the Wheat or what is all such invented words to the knowledg of the Father Son and Spirit which are one which bear record in heaven and are three that beare witnesse in earth the Spirit and Water and the Blood and these three agree in one and when these are known in their witnesse in man what they witnesse unto and what they witnesse againsti within and without such will give them names according to their works and according to the Scriptures The Third head of John Stelhams Scripture Contradiction is concerning the light which every man is enlightened withall which of all things is most hated by all such whose wayes words works are contrary ot it for it being risen in the hearts of the Children of men to give the knowledge of the truth hath in this day made many wiser than their Teachers and now they which have caused people to err are by the light seen and by the Children of light are denyed and they being denyed their envie is up against the light which hath made them manifest and they walk not by the light nor according to the Scriptures buâ— there is a line of confusion comes over them by which now they walk and from which their writings doth proceed as John Stelham in page 52. saith they may affirm agreeable to the Scripture and yet contradict the Scriptures in saying Christ is in every man or that the light in every man leades to the Father saith Christ God or as God is in every man a spark of his god-head-light is in every man but there is not in every man that redemption light which leads to the Father That light which Christ hath enlightened every man withal leads to the Father all who are led by it and believe in it and condemns all from the Father which do not obey it but hate it and speak dispitefully against it who are turned out from God who is light and truth into the confusion saying that the God-head-light is not the Redemption-light but with the light that Lye and confusion is judged for ever and in affirming that the God-head-light is in every mâ—n and then calling it common and old Creation-light Scripture-light pag. 61. and the light of Nature page 74 75 and a legall light page 76. and a created light page 78. and an universal light unto which I say as God is so is his light so is his god-head not created nor natural and as every one comes to know the light which by J.S. is so reviled they shal neither follow nor believe his Doctrine till he can prove when the light of the God-head was created and how it became natural or legal or where he had those names for the Scriptures doth give no such names to the light so by his own rule he speaking more than is in the Scripture is not a Messenger sent by Gods spirit nor guided by it in what he sâ—ith As also in other things as in Pag 64. saying That light without Sâ—ripture is no light Then Enoch's light in which he walk'd wiâ—h God was no light nor Jacobs light nor Isaacs nor Abrahams for they were without these Writings this letter which he calls the Scriptures but they were not without light And thousands have so much light whether they have the Sâ—riptures or not as to see this darkness as to say light though saving light without Scripture is no light did the Scriptures make the light to be light and was the saving light made by that which was written let all take notice turne away from such in another place he calls the Scripture but the declaration that Christ is the Word calleâ—h them a Vessel that the light is put into in p. 43. 44 Now let them of understanding consider judg whether the vessel be the maker of that which is put into it whether Wine that is put into a Bottle be made wine by the Bottle or whether it is not Wine without the bottle Water put into a vessel be not Wâ—ter without the vessel or whether the vessel make it to be Water J.S. saith Every verse of Scripture is a little vessel of light that light without scripture is no light so these things have I laid open that every one may see how the Lord hath turned wise men backward and made their Wisdom foolishness and that they may see how those stumble and fall and are snared and taken whose light is turned into darkness and hovv great that darkness is and novv is the Scripture not denied but fulfilled for now is the Light and Truth come into the World by which they are found to be blind who said they saw and in which they see that vvere blind And now the depths are seen vvhich are covered vvith darkness and Babylon is seen the Mother of Harlots which bring forth in confusion and bind up in ignorance Other confusions and lyes I shall also mention given forth by J.S. in his Book As p. 68. he saith that God was and is the Word according to John 1.1 and in p. 69. he saith The Father is not the Word nor never so called which is a contradiction And in p. 70. saith Christ is more in the Scriptures than in his Saints vvhich is false for greater vvas that vvhich the vvords came from than the vvords vvhich did but declare of the fulness from vvhence they came as all that know Christ wil bear witness unto and against all such that say Christ is more in the words than in them who spake the words Again in p. 73. he saith Christ the Author of salvation to them that obey him speaking in the Scripture saveth by the Scripture which is false and contrary to the testimony of the Scriptures and the witness of them who witnessed his salvation who said By his Life are we saved and by Grace through faith which was the gift of God and not by the Letter and their Witness was true for God and his Works and against all such who are of a lying heart and spirit of error who would make the Letter to be the Light yea more even that vvhich makes light to be light and so greater for that vvhich makes a thing is greater than a thing that is made and would have the Letter to be the Word when as the Letter saith God is the Word and would make the Scriptures to be that by which people are saved as in p. 73. saying Christ saveth by the Scriptures but the Scriptures speak no such thing of themselves for they say there is no other name under Heaven by which men can be saved but by the name of Jesus neither is there such a word written in the Bible that saith men are saved by the scriptures nor that the Light of the God-head is natural as I. S. saith that he may
of their bodies which now if people mind the Scripture there is no such doctrine in it as the Saints in Heaven have not received the Redemption of their bodies for they who had received the first fruits of the Spirit upon earth did wait for the adoption and for the redemption of the body till the creature it self be delivered into the glorious liberty of the sons of God Rom. 8. And this was witnessed and is witnessed and this is the Work of the Worlds Teachers instead of presenting them perfect in Christ Jesus as the Apostles did they would make people believe that the Saints in Heaven their bodies are unredeemed if so where is that redemption wrought And whereas I. S. vvould make people believe that there are none clean novv Christ said concerning those that follovved him Now are ye clean through the Word which I have spoken unto you John 15.3 And David saith that the Lord is good unto such as are of a clean heart Psal. 73.1 And the Lord said concerning his people that he would pour clean water upon them and they should be clean from all their filthiness Ezek. 36.25 and this Prophesie was to be fulfilled And the Lord said also by his Prophet Zephaniah That his Remnant should do no iniquity nor speak lyes neither should a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth Zeph. 3 1·3 And Paul preached Wisdom among them that were perfect and as many as were perfect should be so minded and Christ preached to the pure in heart that they should see God Matt. 5. Now if there were none perfect Christ preached unto such as there was not Now this is the chief ground of J. S. and the rest of the Enemies of truth and of perfection to declare against it because some fall from it as his instance of C. A. or others in the like To which I answer Their falling into that which is not perfect doth not make that which they fall from imperfect for the Angels that kept not their first state which was perfect did fall from that which was perfect A Virgin state is perfect but if any go out of that state and become foolish yet that which they depart from is perfect And if any do fall from the Truth and do not abide in Christs Doctrine that doth not make his Doctrine to be imperfect for Christ saith Except they abide in him who is perfect they cannot bring forth fruit Is not he that is in Christ perfect though some do not abide in him And is not the Truth Truth because some deny it Was not Christs Doctrine and the Apostles true because Demas did forsake it and love the present World And was not that part of the Ministry which Judas had committed unto him perfect And was not he the true Christ that Judas preached though afterwards he betrayed him Now if people do but truly consider all those that now do turn from the way of Truth which is now preached and lived in by us it may be an evident token to justifie us in the Way of Truth seeing what they go into when they go from the Light which Christ hath enlightened them withall which while they abide in it are kept out of all filthiness of flesh and spirit and so long they may speak of perfection and of the gift of God which is perfect But if any go from the Light then they are let at liberty to act all uncleanness with greediness and so are cast out from us and from perfection And if any such deny the Truth and forsake it yet there remains in them a witness for the truth and against their own uncleanness as in C. A. who from the Witness of God in him was made to confess that if he had continued in the Light of Christ he could not have so sinned against the Lord and so by his transgression fel from the way of Life and could not continue in Christs Doctrine any longer so such things may satisfie people concerning the way of Truth for while they are of us all such things is denyed by them but when they go out from us then they become Drunkards Swearers Prophane Adulterers Fornicators and so every evil Work is committed and then they turn to the Priests Doctrine there all such things are and are excused and then the Priests rejoice and give thanks if any turn from the Light of Christ and the obedience of the Gospel into drunkenness and prophaneness again where they were before and if they wil but swear and respect mens persons and use the rod of violence and persâ—cute and shed the blood of the innocent and be conformable to the World that is the Priests rejoicing and if any turn from the truth into any act of uncleanness then they take that as a proof against those that abide in the truth and such a thing is a better proof to them then all the Scripture and those are they that rejoice in iniquity and watch for evil and so they rejoice in that which we have cast out as abomination and these are they that plead for a life in sin while they are here and that say that the saints glorified in Heaven do yet hope for the resurrection of their bodies and so not come to the end of their hope though in Heaven when as the Saints upon earth witnessed the end of their hope the salvation of their souls Now these may wel deny perfection on earth who deny it in heaven which the Saints we and the Scriptures do witness it in both and against all such who are not fit to speak of the things of God Again in his ninth Head of contradiction he speaks of a warfare which yet himself never came unto and in it he wrests Pauls words and so would turn the truth into a lye saying as if Paul should say thus If sin that wars and sights in me hath no power to condemn me then there is no condemnation to me Which words Paul never spake and it is a lye in the ground for it is not sin that is the condemnation but the Light which lets men see their sins because men love darkness rather than light as many in this age have manifested themselves to do and the light shall be their condemnation who are not yet come to the War nor to the Victory which the Scripture speaks of Again in his tenth Head of contradictions speaking of repentance as if he would prove that we denyed or disclaimed godly sorrow and his proof is this If we disclaim in-dwelling sin in the godly we disclaim godly sorrow Let all people take notice of this If we deny in-dwelling sin we deny godly sorrow this is contradiction in the highest degree but against it this I shall affirm that none comes unto godly sorrow but they deny in dwelling sin and they that do not deny in-dwelling sin denies godly sorrow Again John Stelham in his eleventh Head of contradictions to the Scripture in his speaking of
I am come a light into the world that whosoever believeth in me should not abide in darkness And Jesus cried anâ— said He that believeth on me believeth on him that sent me Also Joh. 12.44.46 This light was not mans reason nor understanding neither was it mans spirit that was the true light which lightneth every one that cometh into the world Joh. 1 9. Again another false testimony concerning the light is this That the light did drive Adam from the voice and presence of God and so far is the light from leading up to God that it drives the soul from God and keeps him in the fall p. 53. Answ. This Doctrine is to turn the truth of God into a lye and to call light darkness and darkness light for there is no such testimony in the Scriptures that the light did drive Adam from the voice and presence of God but Adam saith I was afraid because I was naked and I hid my self It was because he had disobeyed Gods voice not because he was enlightned for the Scripture saith It is your sins that hath separated you from God it doth not say that it is the light which hath separated you from God or driven you from him this may well be called a damnable Doctrine or Doctrine of Devils Hath God sent his Son a light into the world to drive the souls from God and keep them in the fall Now let all consider and judge that ever knew the light whether it be darkness or it be light which drives the soul from God and keeps it in the fall Now this doctrine being compared with the Scriptures is utterly false and there is a few that profess godliness in this Nation that can bear it or approve of it and for such as account themselves the highest profession and above forms under the name of Seekers to publish such a thing in print here it appears that the best of men iâ— but as a Briar and the most upright is sharper then a Thorn-Hedge for the day of thy Watch-men and thy Visitation cometh now shall there be perplexity Mic. 7.4 Now here is a day for tryal that they which can may try the spirits and doctrines whether they be of God Now I shall lay it to that of God in all is it not the work of the Devil to drive the soul from God and to keep people in the fall If so then it is not the work of the light which lightneth every man that cometh into the world is not this to call light darkness to say that the light is so far from leading up to God that it drives the soul from God and keeps him in the Fall What is that which leads man out of the fall if the light keep man in it As this is contrary to Scripture and to truth so it is contrary to his own words as in pag. 7. there saying That by the Light is the will and mind of the Creator made known unto man and he sufficiently qualified to see it and understand it Answ. How can these two stand together That the light drives man from God keeps him in the fall and again That it makes known the will and mind of the Creator unto him and sufficiently qualifies him to see and understand it This cannot truly be called Hosanna to the Son of David nor A Testimony to the Lords Christ but a line of confusion which is stretched out wherein darkness is come forth as a cloud and spreads it self over the earth to darken peoples minds from the knowledge and understanding of truth by words without knowledge but his folly shall proceed no further unreproved and made manifest Another false Testimony concerning the light is this That at first it moved upward and man could look God in the face and serve him but now since the fall the Thief is got into the Candle and now the Spirit burns downward and discovers the things beneath Answ. What is the nature of the Light changed or is the spirit so changed that before it ascended upward and now downward We shall try this according to the Scripture which saith Who knoweth the Spirit of man that goeth upward and the spirit of a Beast which goeth downward to the earth Eccles. 3.21 so then if it goes downward it is the spirit of a Beast not the spirit of a man And here it is plainly evident that he knows not the spirit of man from the spirit of a Beast so unfit to cry Hosanna to the Son of David or bear testimony to the Lords Christ. But as for the Light which hath enlightned man that cometh into the world the fall did not â—hange the quality of the light for the light is the same as it was but darkneâ—s cannot comprehend it neither knows how to give a true testimony of it but confusedly speaks of two lights the one springing up with man in his naturall birth suitable to his naturall birth and another light sutable to the new birth that is born of the spirit This is a testâ—mony which is not to be found in Scripture to be two Lights sutable to the two births for he that is born of the flâ—sh persecutes him that is born of the Spirit and God hath put enmity between the two Seeds but to say that there is two lights sutable and so the one natural and the other spiritual the one of the earth earthly and the other of the Lord from Heaven as the two births are this is not a testimony according to truth for the light is but one and the spirit of truth is but one and the same spirit which led the Saints which believed into all truth the same did convince the world of sin because they did not believe in Christ Joh. 16.3 And that light which is the condemnation of the world who love the darknes rather then Christ the same is the Saviour of all them that believe and one man loves it another hates it yet it is the same light Joh. 3.19 but the Scripture bears no such testimony as that there is two lights in man the one spiritual the other natural and for any man to say that the light of Christ is natural is blasphemy against the Son of God and is a sin not easily forgiven and it is hard for such to find the place of repentance for every one that comes to repentance must first come to the light which Christ hath enlightned them withall and must know it to be spiritual and confess it so and with this light come to discern the two births the one from the other and their several natures and how that the one birth is guided by the light it being as the eye giving them to see what to speak before they speak and so keeps them out of the worlds line which is confusion and as a Teâ—cher giving them to understand what to do before they do it and so keeps them out of the condemnation bringing their works
souls then will they confess That it had been well if they had loved the light and walked in it which they have so long hated and despised with those that walk in it and all those which have exercised their strength to shut others out of the Kingdom of God by their Preaching Printing and false Accusations they shall know that while they serve sin they are free from righteousness and do keep others from it But the time is coming that their mouths must be stopped and the Lord wil cause his everlasting righteousness to spread abroad as broad Rivers and streams unquenchable and nothing shall hinder it and this is the day in which the Lord will try those that dwel upon earth as he hath tried many and measured them with a true line and hath found them deceitful although they have made profession of his name and of his words for a cloak for their iniquity But now the light is come into the world and there remains no more cloak for their sins nor hiding place for their iniquity An Epistle concerning the sufferings of friends shewing the Priests wickedness and persecutions GOD hath a great work to do in this generation to pul down the abominations which hath long reigned and many are straightned till it be accomplished and onely such must be exercised in this work who are called chosen and faithful and many have been called but have not been faithful but have destroyed in their works that which they seemed to have established by words and was not faithful to witness the fate of their words by their works so that by a true search we have fouâ—d the words of righteousness in many but we have found the works of righteousness but in few and though God hath shined into the hearts of many by his light yet there are but few children of it in comparison of the disobedient The eye of God hath looked into the world and he sees men differ more in words then in life and conversation and some in words do witnesse for God but in their works deny him As for example How many of late years had a zeal stirred up in them by the spirit of the Lord against the abominations of the Priests and the oppression of the tithes preaching both down even as that which denied Christ to be come in the flesh So that if words had been that which would have finished the work the Land had been cleansed before this time of that abomination but the Lord hath brought a tryal upon such spirits whether they will own their testimony through the spoiling of their Goods and imprisonment of their bodys and therefore hath God suffered an earthly power a Law to try them and now they do rather deny their Testimony then suffer by that Law which gives the Priests tithes as for Witnesses most of the baptized people in England have betrayed their testimony and profession in that thing And how are you worthy to be called Saints which bear such a testimony can this equally be compared with the testimony of the Saints of old Did they cry down false worships and false teachers in words and did they uphold them by giving them wages Have you not herein sinned against light Did you not once see that they were never sent of God And will you now uphold them because you cannot suffer for your testimony Is not your paying them wages giving them tithes a greater witness for them then your preaching them down in words is against them and may they not herein rejoyce over you Christ is not herein your example which for this end was born and for this end came into the world to bear witness to the truth and did finish the work which the Father had given him to do and was made perfect through sufferings but such never need suffer who preach down deceit in words and hold it up in workes And the Apostles is not your example for they were in workes that which they declared in words therefore hath God cast you by as not fit to be Labourers in his Vineyard But a people is the Lord raising up whom he is giving his holy spirit unto whose witness to him must stand as well in works as in words who love the truth more then their lives or liberties goods or estates and are valiant for it upon the earth which cannot be subject to the powers of darkness nor the Rulers of the darkness of this world but believeth that whatsoever they deny for Christ in this life they shall receive a hundred fold and in the world to come life everlasting And these are they whom the Father will exercise with his holy spirit in the gathering his seed from the ends of the earth and for the turning of many to righteousness and such shall shine as the stars in the firmament of Heaven when as the false and deceitfull witnesses shall be turned into darknesse because their testimony is not able to endure the tryal for the Lords house must be built with tried stones that the winds of persecutions cannot blow it down and upon such will his light arise who when they are tried are found faithfull and who are counted worthy to bear a testimony in this work though it be through sufferings in this day when the powers of the Earth have set themselves to wear out the Saints of the most High God by changing times and Laws whereby to restrain the liberty of the Lords people whose worship stands in the spirit and in the truth Times they have changed by a Law in making the first day of the week to be their Sabbath but that day is more prophaned then any of the seven And Laws they have changed to get a grouâ—â— to stop the word of the Lord from having free course and 〈◊〉 utterance among â—he people These seek to scatter the power of the holy people and to 〈◊〉 the truth to the ground by their acts of cruelty and deâ—rees 〈◊〉 unrighteousness and by a tolerating cruelty and or pression â—mong a company of Priests which are worse then those in Hosea'â— dayes who then were As a Troop of Robbers that wait for a man eveâ— so the company of Priests murther in the way by consent Hos. 6.9 and saith the Prophet I have seen a horrible thing in the house of Israel but now we may say We have seen a more horrible thing in the Land of England even a company of Priests taking mens horses from their work their Corn off their field driving away their Oxen and Kine out of their Pasture taking their wool out of their Barns taking away their Brasse and Pewter out of their Houses taking away their Bedding off their Beds even off their childrens Beds Such a horrible thing was never seen in Israel for the Priests Robbery was not so great then as now for they did never so spoile mens goods nor destroy mens Estates nor imprison mens bodies as now in England the Priests have
Lord R. H. According as vve read in the Scriptures That the inspiration of the Almighty giveth understanding so by its inspiration is an understanding given us of the things of God Lord. Then one of the Lords said How do you know that you are led by the true Spirit R. H. This we know because the Spirit of truth it reproves the world of Sin and by it we were reproved of sin and also are led from sin unto righteousness and obedience of truth by which effects vve knovv it is the true Spirit for the spirit of the vvicked one doth not lead into such things King and Lords Then the King and his Lords said It was truth King Well of this you may be assured That you shall none of you suffer for your Opinions or Religion so long as you live peaceably and you have the Word of a King for it and I have also given forth a Declaration to the same purpose that none shall wrong you nor abuse you King How do you own Magistrates or Magistracy R. H. Thus vve do ovvn Magistrates Whosoever is set up by God whether King as Supream or any set in Authority by him who are for the punishment of evil doers and the praise of them that do well such we shall submit unto and assist in righteous and civil things both by body and Estate And if any Magistrates do that which is unrighteous we must declare against it only submit under it by a patient suffering and not rebel against any by insurrections plots and contrivances King Then the King said That is enough Lord. Then one of the Lords asked Why do you meet together seeing every â—ne of you have the Church in your selves R. H. According as it is written in the Scriptures the Church is in God Thes. 1.1 And they that feared the Lord did meet often together in the fear of the Lord and to us it is profitable and herein we are edified and strengthened in the life of truth King How did you first come to believe the Scriptures were truth R. H. I have believed the Scriptures from a child to be a Declaration of truth when I had but a literal knowledge natural education and tradition but now I know the Scriptures to be true by the manifestation and operation of the Spirit of God fulfilling them in me King In what manner do you méet and what is that order in your méetings R. H. We do meet in the same order as the people of God did waiting upon him and if any have a word of exhortation from the Lord he may speak it or if any have a word of reproof or admonition and as every one hath received the gift so they may minister one unto another and may be edified one by another whereby a grovvth into the knowledge of the truth is administred to one another One of the Lords Then you know not so much as you may know but there is a growth then to be admitted of R. H. Yes vve do grovv daily into the knovvledge of the truth in our exercise and obedience to it King Are any of your Friends gone to Rome R. H. Yes there is one in Prison in Rome King Why did you send him thither R. H. We did not send him thither but he found something upon his Spirit from the Lord whereby he was called to go to declare against Superstition and Idolatry vvhich is contrary to the Will of God Kings Friend said There were two of them at Rome but one was dead King Have any of your Friends been with the Great Turk R. H. Some of our Friends have been in that Countrey Other things were spoken concerning the liberty of the servants of the Lord which vvere called of him into his service that to them there vvas no limitation to Parishes or places but as the Lord did guide them in his Work and Service by his Spirit So the King promised that we should not any ways suffer for our Opinion or Religion and so in love passed away R. H. His Answer to John Horn. J. H. IN thy Answer to my Queries thou seemest to be resolved to say something although it be absolutely contrary to the truth and to that which thou knowest to be Truth as will appear in what follows In answer to my first thou sayest Christ in his Spirit ascended up to Heaven when his Body was upon Earth Is this an answer to the Question Is the mind or Spirit called the Son of man according to John 3.13 which came down from Heaven And no man doth ascend up to Heaven but the Son of man which was then in Heaven So by this thy Answer it appears then that the Spirit is the Son of man and that there is no other Son of man that ascends into Heaven but the Spirit then what becomes of that body thou speaks of if the Spirit only be that Son of man In thy Answer to the second and third Queries thou provest in thy way that Mary did that which was forbidden by Christ when she held him by the feet and worshipped him but in Mat. 28.9 there is no forbidding of her to touch him but this is plainly manifest that thou art in a snare and cannot tel how to get out and yet thou wilt be saying something though thereby thou more ensnares thy self but this Scripture thou wilt once know fulfilled The Wicked shall be silent in darkness When thou shouldst answer to the fourth thou tellest of its being a secret and of prying into things above what is vvritten although the ground of my Query is grounded upon that vvhich is vvritten in Luke 24.4 To the fifth thou saist That the Women did distinguish which was Christ vvas certain but hovv they did so is a foolish curious Question What certainty is there that they did knovv vvhen thou knovvest not hovv but this is like the rest of the Priests doctrine beating the air and leaving all people in uncertainties and yet would be paid for so doing but the Lord hath made thee manifest with the rest that you cannot deceive much longer To the sixth thou sayest the two Angels were seen visibly but were not Bodies nor Persons of men but in thy answer to the fourth saist that they both saw them as men and heard them speak and had two individual Forms Now if thou wert but simple and not wilfully blind thou mightest be the more excused In thy answer to the seventh thou art more lost and confused then in all the rest for when thou shouldst answer who were the eleven Disciples that were met together mentioned Luk 24.33 thou saist that Thomas might occasionally be gone out Ans. If he was gone out then the eleven was not together as Luke 24. Again thou saist that Matthias was chosen before the Evangelist wrote his Book What darkness and ignorance is this Thou art not questioned when the Book was written nor when Matthias was chosen but who was the eleven that was together
these things there was Christ held out and mentioned in the shadows and figures and so that Covenant which promiseth no salvation nor mentioneth any thing of a Saviour that we deny for there is no such Covenant in the Scriptureâ— For that which said Do this and live promised life and mentioned Christ who is the life and by Christ who is the Life and Light of men is that Covenant fulfilled and by his Power both the obedience and life is brought forth of which that Covenant speaketh and the new Covenant being come that God hath promised wherein he hath put his Law in their hearts and his Spirit in their inward parts and all such need not to come to such Priests to be taught who tel of a Covenant which promiseth no salvation nor mentioneth any thing of a Saviour for we who be in the second know the first fulfilled which Christ was held forth in under Ordinances of Divine service and a Worldly Sanctuary and divers washings and carnal Ordinances which never made the comers thereunto perfect as pertaining to the Conscience But now is Christ the Covenant of God and Covenant of Light come and preached and with his Light shineth in mens Consciences that he may make perfect as pertaining to the Conscience which Covenant is now witnessed among thousands and such denyed who speak of a Covenant that mentions nothing of a Saviour and that to be the Rule of true believers Again in John Stelham's fifth head of Scripture-contradiction he speaks concerning sin saying That the more a soul is sanctified the more he sees his moats to be beams and that Paul was groaning and sighing all his life-time under the body of sin and death Both these are false for the more a soul is sanctified he is not the more taught to lye or to see falsly but the more he is taught to see clearly and discern a moat to be a moat and a beam to be a beam and knows the difference And Paul thanks God who had given him the victory over sin and death which he had not while he groaned under the body of it and so both the Saints and the Work of sanctification is falsly accused by such and such are to be denied as Enemies to God and to his Work In the reading of this let all people take notice that in the several and particular heads of J. S. Book where he saith he hath contradicted us he is proved himself to contradict the Scritures and so far as he contradicts the Scriptures in those particulars so far he may say he contradicts us our testimony being one with the Scriptures in those things Pr. For in his sixth head as concerning Justification he saith He that is justified is justified by God not under the aspect or notion of a Saint and as such but of a sinner and as a sinner believing in Jesus not as he loveth God or overcometh the world by Faith c. but as believing on Christ dying c. Now this testimony of J. S. is contrary to the Scripture for God never justified any as hating of him nor as a sinner but as made obedient through faith according to the Scriptures as the Apostle witnesseth Gal. 2.16 Even by the faith of Jesus Christ even we have believed in Jesus Christ that we might be justified by the faith of Christ c. so they believed that they might be justified and the ungodly they were first called out of their ungodliness and whom he called them he also justified and they whom he justified them he also glorified and by him all that believe are justified from all things from which they could not be justified by the Law of Moses Acts 13.39 And so all who are justified by the Lord are justified from their sins and not in them as all shall witness who come to be justified by Christ from their iniquity And whereas J.S. vvould set the Law and Justice of God at a difference with the Gospel and as contrary in saying The Law and Justice finds and leaves us sinners Gospel and Mercy declareth and pronounceth us righteous Now the one pronouncing a man to be righâ—eous and the other pronouncing the same to be a sinner these two are contrary But the Scripture hath another testimony saying Mercy and Truth are met together Righteousness and Peace have kissed each other Psal. 85.10 Now here is unity here is not Righteousness pronouncâ—ng one thing and Mercy another for the righteousnesse of God is revealed from Heaven against the disobedient and this vvill not leave them disobedient nor sinners if ever they come to mercy for it doth not leave them as it finds them And so that Doctrine is accurst from God which saith That Justice finds them sinners and leaves them so and to say that Justice pronounceth them sinners and Mercy pronounceth them righteous But to satisfie all people a few vvords may serve to answer the volume of that darknesse and blindnesse given forth by him before-mentioned should a man full of vvords be justified Job 11.2 Again concerning J.S. in his seventh head concerning Regeneration he saith That the Word of God that is preached was never without or besides Scripture c. And as in other places he hath said That the Spirit is given by the Letter so here he vvould make Regeneration to proceed from it which this being denied he concludes it had been better the Scripture had not been known nor written An. The Word and Gospel were preached unto Abraham without Scriptures and before the Scriptures were written and they who are regenerated and born again it is by the immortal Word which is able to save their souls which Word was before the Letter was written and who be begotten again and born by that Word it is profitable for such that the Scriptures were written given forth and the Scripture by such is honored but such who call the Letter the Light and the Word and that which begets again into the new birth by such both the Work of God is despised and the Scriptures perverted and denied Again J. S. in his 8. Head of Contradiction speaking of perfection uttereth forth more confusion and contradiction to himself in his speaking of the Communion of the Saints in Heaven and doth lye concerning the Saints on earth saying the Saints in Heaven hoped for the perfection of their bodies at the Resurrection c. And again contradicts that in saying that at death they have a final perfection and a full harvest and reward of peace c. Ans. Now this is the issue that all people may take notice he hath so envied perfection and Christ's Doctrine which saith Be ye perfect as your Father which is in Heaven is perfect And them who now preach that Doctrine that he hath set out a Volume to declare against the Saints being perfect here yea and his envy hath reached to Heaven to prove that the Saints in Heaven are not perfect but wait for the redemption