Selected quad for the lemma: heaven_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
heaven_n	great_a	see_v	son_n	5,173	5	5.0248	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A18883	Those fyue questions, which Marke Tullye Cicero, disputed in his manor of Tusculanum: written afterwardes by him, in as manye bookes, to his frende, and familiar Brutus, in the Latine tounge. And nowe, oute of the same translated, & englished, by Iohn Dolman, studente and felowe of the Inner Temple. 1561; Tusculanae disputationes. English	Cicero, Marcus Tullius.; Dolman, John, of the Inner Temple.	1561 (1561)	STC 5317; ESTC S107988	158,994	448

the Moone the Sonne and the other fyue Planettes in the artificiall Spheare he didde as muche as God whome Plato bringeth in in his booke entituled Tymcus makyng the world when he made the turninge of one Spheare to rule seuerall motions differynge bothe in slowenes and swyftenes Whiche if in the motion of the whole worlde it can not be done wythout the hand of god neither coulde Archymedes in his materyall Spheare haue imitated the same with out an heauenlye wyt Neyther yet can I see howe these accustomed thynges with the whych we are dayly acquaynted can be done wythout an heauenlye power As that a Poete shoulde wryte a graue and full verse wythoute some heauenlye influence or that a man should be eloquent with pleasaunt wordes and weyghty sentences wythoute some greater inuention then the witte of man But philosophy the mother of all artes what other thynge is it then as Plato sayeth the gyfte and as I thinke the inuention of the gods She fyrst taught vs the worshippe of them and secondarelye to vse right towards all men and then afterwardes modestye stoutenes of stomake She draue away all darkenes from the soule whiles it is in the prison of the bodye that it might see all thinges as well highe and lowe as farre and neare And sure lye this seemes to me to be a heauenly thynge whyche dothe so manye and so wonderfull thinges For what is the remembraunce of wordes and deedes what is inuention assuredly such thinges they are as a man can not imagine greater in god him selfe For I do not think that the gods are delighted with the foode whyche the Poetes call Ambrosia or wyth the heauenlye drynke whych they call Nectari neyther can I thinke that they haue yonge boyes waytynge at theyr tables neyther do I beleue Homere whyche wryteth that Ganimedes was taken vp into heauen to be cupbearer to Iupiter It is no sufficient cause why he should do Laomedon so much iniury Homere fayned it and applied the qualities of men to the gods I had rather that he had deriued the properties of y e gods vnto vs namely to be wyse to inuent and to remember The soule nowe whych as I saye is a heauenly thing as Euripides feareth not to saye is god him selfe And truly if god be either aer or fyer he is the soule of man For as the heauenlye nature is voyde bothe of earthlye substance and also wateryshe moysture so in lykewyse is the soule of man compounded of none of them bothe But if it be a certayne fyft nature as Aristotle first inuented assuredlye as well the gods as our soules do consyste of the same substaunce Which opiniō we folowing haue thus expressed in our bookes which we entituled of consolation there can be foūd no original nor beginning of our soules in the earthe sith in them nothinge is mixt or cōpound nothing made or framed of earth nothing moyst or a●rye ne yet of fyerie nature for in these foure natures there is nothinge that hath the power to remember inuent or ymagine that can either beare in memory thinges paste foresee such as are to come or rightly weyghe such as are presēt Which propertyes giftes as they are heauenly so no man can imagine howe they maye come to man but from God Whereby it seemeth that the nature of the soule is other then these foure seperated from these accustomed commen natures So whatsoeuer it is that can discern● by the senses can iudge by discrecyon or can wil or not will that must nedes be of an heauenly force and power and for that selfe same cause euerlastynge For god him selfe whome we can not conceyue but by the force of oure vnderstandinge we can ymagine to be no other thing then a loose and free soule seperate frome all mortall concretion seenge and mouing all thinges it selfe beinge moued of nothinge and of this selfe same force and nature is the mind of man Where then or what is thy soule canst thou tel me where or what maner thinge it is But if I haue not so manye helpes to the knoweledge of my soule as I woulde wyshe to haue wilte thou therfore let me to vse those thinges which I haue to the vnderstandinge of my soule the soule is not able in this bodye to see him selfe No more is the eye whyche although he seeth all other thinges yet that whiche is one of the leaste can not discerne his owne shape But admit that the soule can not consider him selfe howebeit perhaps he may His operacions as quyckenes of inuention sure remembraunce continuance and swiftnes of motion it doth well ynoughe perceyue And these be greate yea heauenlye yea euerlastinge thinges But of what shape it is or where it resteth we oughte not to enquyre As when we see the forme and beautye of the heauens furthermore suche quyckenes of motion as we can scarce conceyue also the continual courses of day and nyght the foure chaunges of the yeare conueniēt both for the rypening of fruytes and also for the tēperate disposicion of our bodyes Besydes this when we see the sonne the causer and worker of all encrease and the moone whose encrease and decrease of lyght doth in steede of Calender descrybe vnto vs the chaunges of euerye daye when we beholde the other fyue planettes whych most constantly continue one set course vnder that Circle whiche is deuided into .xii. equall partes with vnequal motions and the faces of the skyes by nyghte on all sydes set with starres and the globe of the earthe saued from the sea and fyxed in the middest of the whole world in some places habitable and wel tilled of the which one part whych we inhabite is placed vnder the North starre where The blousteringe Northerne blastes congeale the frosen snowe And the other farre in the south which the Greekes call 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 whereas the other partes be not inhabited eyther because they are frosen with cold or parched with heate But here where we dwell at appoynted seasons The Sunne doth shyne the trees doth burgen greene The mery Uynes wyth clusters are bespred The bindynge trees wyth fruyte a ioye to seene The corne doth spring thinges that erst were dead As nowe reuiued their olde shape of do cast The fountayns flowe and grasse waxe greene a newe When Somers heate hath chaūged the Wynters hue Furthermore whē we se the multitude of beastes ordained partly for our foode partly for y e tillage of our groūd partly to cary vs partly to clothe vs man amonges al these thinges a beholder of the heauens gods a worshipper of the same furthermore all thinges as wel in land as in sea prouided for the profite of mankind these other innumerable workes of god as oft as we do behold must we not nedes acknowlege that if these thinges were at any time made there must be some worker maker of thē Or els if they haue bene for

put vs in good hope if that delight you that our soules may after this life passe into the heuens as a place appoynted for them Hea. Truly it delyghteth me greatlye And assuredly y ● it so is I wil alwayes perswade my selfe Mar. What nede you in this case to requyre my labour am I able in eloquence to excell Plato reade diligently that booke whyche he wrote of the soule so shal you lacke nothinge concerninge the knoweledge of this questiō Hea. I haue done so truly yea and that very often But I knowe not how whiles I reade him I am fully perswaded But after I haue layd asyde the booke begin to thinke with my selfe of the immortality of our soules all my perswasion sodaynelye slips away Mar. Wel sir graunte you that the soules abyde after death or els saye you that they dye with the reste of the body Hea. I graunt that thei remaine Mar. What if they remayne Hea. I graunt they be blessed Mar. What if they dye Hea. Then they be not wretched because they be not For that being therunto costrayned by you I haue already graunted Mar. How then or for what cause do you saye that deathe is euell which eyther shal make vs happy our soules remayninge or els not wretched our sense beinge paste Hea. Shewe therfore fyrste vnlesse it be to paynefull for you that our soules remayne after this life But yf you can not proue that for it is very harde you shall shewe that there is no harme in death For I feare muche leaste it be a griefe I do not meane to lacke sense but that I must lacke sense Mar. To proue this matter which you desyre we may vse as good authoures as may be which in all causes both ought and also is wont to be of great importaunce and fyrst we may confyrme it by all antiquity which the nigher it was to the beginning of the worlde and progenye of the gods so much the better peraduenture did see those thinges whyche were true For emonges those auncyent fathers whō Ennius calleth Cascos this one thinge was comen that there is in death feling and that a man by departing of his life is not so vtterly extinguished that he should altogether peryshe And this may you gather both by many other thinges but chiefly by the lawe of the byshops and ceremonies of burials whiche they beynge most wittye men would neyther with so great care haue obserued neither yet being irreuerently or vnhonestly vsed would so sharpely haue punished except this had bene faste fixed in theyr mindes that death is no destruction vtterly marring and blemishing al thinges but onelye a certayne departure and chaunge of lyfe the whiche to worthye men women is wont to be a guyde into heauen and vicious and il disposed persons did cause to tary on the groūd and neuerthelesse to remayne stil. By this opinion also and by the iudgemēt of our countreymen Romulus in heauens with gods doth passe his time As Ennius the Poete agreeing to comen fame hath writen And frō thence flyeng to vs and so to the West Occeane Hercules is counted so great and so mightye a god For this cause Bacchus the sonne of Semele is so muche reported And in like maner famous were the .ii. sonnes of Tindareus who not onely in field were helpers of victory to the Romans but also messengers of the same Also Ino the doughter of Cadmus is she not of the Greekes by the name of Leucothea and of our countreymen by the name of Matuta worshipped What the whole heauen to thintent I make no longer discourse is it not replenished with mankinde for if I should assaye to searche auncyente monumentes and put in writing such thinges as be in olde Greeke bookes thē should you wel perceyue that such as we count to be the greatest goddes haue departed out of y e earth into those places of heauen But ignoraunt men that knewe not naturall philosophye whych of late came into vse perswaded them selues so much as they could gather by naturall reason The order and causes of thinges they knewe not They were oftē moued by visions and those chiefelye in the nighte to thinke that such as were dead did liue againe Wherfore like as we se it a very strōg argumēt to beleue that there are gods because there is no nation so cruel neyther yet anye man so beastlye in whose mind there is not fixed some opinion of God Many neuerthelesse haue conceaued diuers foolishe fancies of the gods but yet they graunte all that there is a diuine power and nature Neyther yet doth the communication or agreement of men cause this consent the opinion is cōfirmed by no decrees by no lawes but in euery thing the argement of all nations is taken for the law of nature So likewise in asmuch as all nations haue worshipped their benefactors as gods after theyr death although some more foolyshe then other it is euident that nature hath engraffed in the heartes of all men a natural opinion without perswasiō that our soules are immortall and remayne after this life But who is there that would not bewayle the death of his friend when he thinkes that he is depriued the commodities of this life Take away his fansye and you shall take awaye all mourning For no man mourneth but for his discommodity For we sorowe and are vexed and all our wofull lamentation and sad mourning ryseth hereof that him whom so entirelye we loued we suppose to lacke the commodities of this life and that to feele And these thinges we ymagine onely by the conducting of nature wythout eyther reason or learninge And hereof we wyll talke hereafter But the greatest argument by the whych we may gather that nature it selfe doth priuily thinke of the immortality of our soules is that moste wise men take greatest care for thinges to come after their death Some one sets trees whiche may profyte in an other age as Statius sayeth in his bookes entituled Synephebi to what other ende but for that he knewe that the time to come did also pertayne vnto him for the same cause diuers diligente husbandemen graffe trees whose encrease they shall neuer see And likewyse manye noble men make lawes orders and customes the obseruatiōs of the which they shall neuer beholde What the begettinge of children the spreading of fame the adoptions of children the diligent obseruinge of testamentes the very monumentes Epitaphes of graues what other thing do they signify then that we haue al a respect to y e time to come Besydes this There is no doubte but the tryall of nature oughte to be taken of the best nature But what mens nature is better thē theyrs which thinke theym selues borne to helpe saue and comfort men Hercules is departed frō hence to the gods To them he shoulde neuer haue gone vnlesse whiles he was emonges men he had prepared him selfe a way thither But these are old matters and nowe also sanctifyed by

hand Not Grecians prudent force nor Barbares crueltye Nor yet the cruell folke whyche dwell at thend of land Whych passyng I full ofte nere tried such miserye But nowe a womans hand my martiall corps shall slaye O sonne in this one thinge thy wretched father please Let not my cruell deathe thy mothers loue alaye But brynge me her whose bane would make me feele some ease ¶ Nowe shall I proue whom best thou louest of vs twayne Go to my sonne bewayle thy poysoned fathers case Rue on me whose vile death whole nations wil complayne O that I like a wench to teares should wrest my face ¶ Whom no man erste hathe seene to syghe at any sore So nowe my weakened force shall dye afore his date Come nere my sonne beholde thy fathers gryefe therfore Whose inwards fret●ing force of poison nowe doth grate ¶ Behold all men thou which heauē and earth didst make Cast downe on me thy boltes whyche other men do feare For nowe the whirlynge panges of gryefe my body shake And nowe the poison smartes O handes that conquerours were ¶ O heart O brest and eke you lothsome lasy handes Did erst your force constrayne a Lyon lose his life Or Lerna put to death yseared wyth fyre brands Dyd ye from Centaure once his wretched life berieue ¶ Did ye destroye the beast that Erimanthia spoyled Or els from hel dryue out the threfold hellyshe hound Were ye those handes that erste the waker dragon fayled That kept the golden fruyte there lyenge on the ground Did ye erst do these thinges or gyue so great assayes Or did your valyaunte deedes deserue a worthy prayse ¶ Can we despyse gryefe since Hercules was so impacient of it Nowe let vs heare Aeschilus not a Poete onlye but a Pythagorean also Howe doth he make Prometheus lamentynge the gryefe whych he suffereth for the theft committed in Lemnos For the fyer which we haue it is sayde that he stole from Iupiter And for that cause doth there endure tormente whiche he recountinge wyth him selfe tyed to the mounte Caucasus speaketh in thys wyse You rare of Titans stocke partakers of my bl●ud Descended once from heauens behold me here ybounde And ryed vnto the rockes ▪ as shippe in mayne sea floud The warye shipmen vse with ropes to tye on grounde ¶ The sonne of Saturne Iupiter dyd cause me here to lye When he did ioyne his hande to Uulcanes heauy wrath Who in these lasting gyues my bodye loe did tye And crusht my limmes in twoo so in this balefull bath Wyth yrons all to perced I miser here do lye And when the thyrd day comes the bitterst that may be An Egle then full ●ell with talentes hookt I see Which stoupes frō hie to plumme her greedy fyll on me ¶ But when she being filled hath tane away her flight In aers hye she lickes hir goared bluddye beake And when my liuer is renewed in eche nyght Then loe she comes agayne her fyll thereof to eate ¶ So I continuallye mine onelye woe mayntayne Whiche doth me styll tormente wyth wofull miserye For as you here see bound with Io●es moste mighty chayne I can not feare the foule awaye from me to flye ¶ So age hathe come on me whiles I this payne abide Desyrynge bitter death the same to fynyshe once But Iones most cruel dome hath death to me denyed And so this cruell plague shal stil sticke in my bones Til that ●he sonne my fleshe vpon this hill rost shall Whyche that most fylthye foule from hye doth oft let fall ¶ Assuredlye I thinke we can not but count a man in his case wretched and if he be wretched thē is griefe an euel Hea. As yet you haue pleaded my part But thereof we wil talke hereafter But in the meane time I maruayle much what you meane by vsynge verses so muche in your talke Mar. I will tell you the cause and it is well asked of you since you see that I am nowe at leasure I thinke when you were in Athenes you haue bene often ere nowe in the scooles of the philosophers Hea. Yea truly and that very gladly Mar●us Did you not then marke that they did much vse to bryng in verses in theyr talke Hea. In deede I remember that Dionisius the Stoyke brought in very many Mar. You say trouth But he did it withoute anye choyce or eloquence But Philo both kept the number of his verse and vsed choyse therin and placed them also conueniently Wherfore since the time that I fyrste fell in loue with this declamation of mine olde age I doe gladly brynge in my talke the verses of our poetes And if they chaunce to be imperfecte in any poynct I haue translated the same out of the Greeke because I woulde not that our tongue should want any kind of ornament that the Greekes had But do you see the discommoditie that Poetes cause Fyrst they bring in stout men lamenting which weakeneth the readers courage Then they be so pleasaunt that men do not onlye read thē but also learne them wythout booke So when to litle learninge and to a wanton and effeminate life poetes are once adioyned they vtterly slake all the prickes of vertue And for that cause they are worthelye banished of Plato out of that cicie whiche he framed as the most perfect forme of a well framed and gouerned common welth Yet neuerthelesse we beinge learned so to do of the Grecians do both reade theym euen from oure youthe vpwardes and also learne theym withoute booke thinkinge their learninge to be both good honest But what shoulde we blame Poetes since there haue ben philos●phers who ought to haue bene the maysters of all vertue which haue thoughte sorowe gryefe to haue bene the greatest euell and whereas you being but a yonge man and euen nowe of the selfe same opinion with thys onely demaund whether it were greater then shame did foorthwyth relente and forsake your vaine opinion Now● aske Epicurus the same question and he will say that small griefe is a greater euell then the greatest shame that maye be For he wyll saye that shame is no euell vnlesse gryefe do folowe I meruayle then that there dothe no gryefe folowe Epicurus when he sayeth that gryefe is the greatest euell whyche is the moste shamefull thinge that any Philosopher myght haue spoken Wherfore you did well aunswere when you sayde that shame seemed to you a greater euell then gryefe And if you will persiste in that opinion you shall lyghtly perceyue howe much we ought to auoyde griefe For we must not so muche searche whether gryefe it selfe be an euell yea or no as howe we oughte to strengthen oure myndes to beare the same The Stoykes occupye them selues in certayne light reasons to shewe the cause whye it oughte not to be called an euell As if the controuersie were of the worde and not of the matter Whye doest thou deceyue me Zeno For when thou denyest that gryefe and formente whyche seeme

afore immortality Whose ayde therefore should we rather vse then thyne Who both hast graunted vs the quietnes of lyfe and also hast taken from vs the feare and dread of death But so muche it lackes that philosophye is so much commended as it hath deserued of the life of man that it is of the most part neglected of many wholy dispraysed Who woulde thynke that any man durst to disprayse the parent of his life and so defyle him selfe with parri●ide and shewe him selfe so vnnaturallye vnkynde as to disprayse her whych he ought to feare yea though he could not vnderstande But I thynke this errour and miste is bredde in the heartes of the vnlearned because they are not able to discerne the truthe and for that cause thinke that they were not philosophers who did fyrste helpe to garnyshe the lyfe of man And truly though this studye of it selfe be moste auncient of all others yet the name is but newe For wysedome trulye who can denye to be ryght auncient as wel in deede as in worde whych obtayned this worthy name amonges the auncient sages for that it doth consiste of the knoweledge as well of heauenlye thinges as earthlye Of the beginninges causes and nature of euerye thinge And for that cause those seuen whych of the Greekes are called Sophi o●r forefathers both counted and also named wyse So called they Licurgus likewyse many yeares afore in whose time it is reported that Homere liued afore y ● building of our citye We haue heard also that when the halfe gods liued on the earth Ulixes and Nestor both were in deede and also were called wise Neyther truly had it bene reported that Atlas sustayneth the heauen or that Prometheus lyeth ●ounde to the hill Caucasus or that Cepheus is placed amonge the starres wyth his wife sonne in lawe and doughter vnlesse theyr knoweledge in heauenlye matters had fyrst caused such tales to be raised of their names Whom all the rest that since haue folowed and placed theyr studye in the contemplation of the nature of thinges were both counted and also named wyse Which name continued vntil the time of Pithagoras Who as Heraclides borne in Pontus a scoler of Plato a man verye well learned doth wryte came to Phliuns a citie in Greece And there reasoned bothe learnedlye and largelye wyth Leo the chyefe of the same towne Whose wyt and eloquence Leo wonderinge at asked of him in what arte he was mooste perfecte Whereunto he aunswered that he knewe no arte But that he was a louer of wysedome Leo wonderynge at the straungenes of the name asked of him who were those louers of wisedome And what difference was betwyxte them and other men Whereunto Pithagoras aunswered that the lyfe of man myght well be resembled to that fayre whych wyth al pompe of playes al Greece is wont to frequent and solēpnyse For like as there some by the exercise of theyr bodyes woulde assaye to winne some game crowne and some other came thither for the desyre to gayne by byeng and sellynge and also there was a thirde sorte farre passing al the rest who sought neither game nor gaynes but came thither onelye to beholde and see what was done and howe so likewyse we comminge into this life as it were into a great frequented fayre or market seke some for glory and some for money But very fewe there are which despisynge all other thinges woulde studye the contemplatiō of nature But those he sayde were they whome he called the louers of wisedome And like as there it is counted a greater worship to come for the syghte of thinges than to medle wyth byenge and sellynge euen so lykewyse in this lyfe the contemplacion and knowledge of thinges did farre excell all other worldlye troubles Neyther truly was Pythagoras onely the inuentour of this name but also an increaser of the studye it selfe Who when after this communication at Phliuns he came into Italy enstructed that countrey whych is nowe called great Greece bothe priuatelye and also openlye wyth moste notable orders and artes Of whose doctryne perhaps we shal haue some more commodious time to speake But that philosophye whych in auncient time was in vse till the time of Socrates who was the hearer of Archelaus the scoler of Socrates dyd onelye treate of numbers and motions and whereof al thinges were made and whereinto they did ende They did also curiouslye search out the quantity distaunce and courses of the starres and other heauēly bodyes But Socrates fyrste of all turned philosophy from the consideration of the heauenly motions and placed it in cityes and brought it euen into our housen makynge it to reason of our life and maners of al thinges that are good and euell Whose sundrye kinde of reasoninge wyth the varietie of the thinges them selues and the sondrye compasses of mens wits made diuers sectes of dissenting philosophers Of all the which I folowe that which I suppose Socrates dyd vse Namelye to conceale mine owne opinion and reproue other mens errours And in al reasoning to enquere what is most likely to be true Which custome inasmuche as Carneades did continue maruaylous wittelie and copiously I also enforced my selfe to do the same of late in my maner of Tusculanum And the talke of our firste foure dayes I haue already sent vnto you reported in as many bookes But the fyft daye whē we came to our accustomed place thus began our reasoninge Hea. I thinke that vertue is not sufficient of it selfe to make a happye and a blessed lyfe Mar. Trulye my frende Brutus thinkes the contrary Whose iudgement you must geue me leaue to saye my fancie I do alwayes preferre afore yours Hea. I do not doubte thereof neyther is it nowe in controuersy how much you loue him But I woulde heare your opinion what you thynke of that whych I haue proposed Mar. Do you denye that vertue of it selfe is sufficient to make a mans life blessed Hea. Yea truly Mar. What maye not a man with vertue onely liue wel honestly and laudablye Hea. Yes trulye Mar. Can you then saye that either he whiche liueth yll is not wretched or that he whyche liueth well liueth not also happelye Hea. What els for euen in tormentes a man maye lyue well honestly and commendably So you vnderstand howe I meane to liue wel Which is to liue constantly grauelye wyselye and stoutelye For these do sticke by a man euen when he is on the racke Yet there is no happye life Mar. Why so wil you shut a blessed life onely oute of the prison doare when constancye grauitye fortitude and wysedome may enter wythin the same and refuse no pryson punyshemente nor payne Hea. Trulye if you minde to moue me you must seke some other reasons then those not onely because they are commen but also because like as colde wines haue no taste in the water so these reasons delyghte me rather in the fyrst taste then when I haue dronke them vp As this

laye theyr heades togither for so it semeth good vnto me to terme them whyche swarue from Plato and Socrates and from theyr sect they shal neither at any time expresse any thinge so eloquently neither yet be able to perceyue how suttelye this selfe same reason is concluded The soule therfore perceiueth that he him selfe doth moue wherewithall it feeles also that it is of his owne power and not of any forren force that it can by no meanes chaūc● that he should forsake him selfe Wher by it is concluded y e he is euerlastinge Nowe let me heare what you can saye against this Hea. I truly can not suffer my selfe so muche as to ymagine anye thyng contrarye vnto it I do so muche Rauour your opinion herein Mar. How thinke you thē of those thinges which are in the soule which if I could by ani meanes conceiue how thei might haue beginning I could wel ymagine howe they might peryshe also For bloude choler fleame bones sinowes vaynes al the frame of our body I could wel ymagine howe and wherof it is made The soule it selfe if it had no greater thing in it then that it is causer of our lyfe I could lightlye be perswaded y ● a man might as wel liue by the power of nature as a vine or any other tree Also if it had no straunger properties then to desire some thinges to abstaine frō other I could thinke y t that wer as wel cōmon to beastes as to it But firste it hath an infinite remēbraunce of a wonderfull nūber of thinges emonges the which Plato reckeneth y e recordinge of our former life For in y t booke whych is entitled Memnon Socrates demaūdeth certaine questiōs of a childe as cōcerning the measures of a foure square to y e which he aunswereth as any child might but yet neuerthelesse the questions are so easy that he aūswereth him so as if he had learned Geometrye Whereby Socrates concludeth that to learne is nothinge els then to remember This place also he handeleth more at large in that talke whiche he hadde that selfe same daye that he departed out of this life For he saieth that when a rude and ignoraunt man dothe aunswere wel to one that questioneth wiselye with him then he dothe playnely● shewe that he doth not thē learne those thinges but remēbreth thē as thinges which he had almost forgotten He sayeth also that we coulde by no meanes from oure childhoode haue the generall groundes of so many thinges placed in our mindes vnlesse oure soule afore it entred into our bodye had liued in the knoweledge of the same And whereas the body is nothing as Plato in all his workes doth reason for he takes that as nothing which hath had beginning and shall haue ending and that onelye to be which shall continue for euer the soule could not come to the knowledge of these thinges whiles he was enclosed in the bodye but brought them thyther wyth him Neyther yet dothe it clearelye perceyue the same at the first when it sodaynelye cometh into the bodye as into a troubled mansion but after that it hath reuoked and reposed it selfe it recounteth suche thinges as it knewe before So to learne is no other thing then to remeber But I do wonder at oure remembraunce after an other sorte For what is it whereby we do remember or from whence hath our nature that force or power I do not here aske how notable the memorye of Symonides was eyther of Theodectes or els of Cyneas the ambassadour whych came from Pyrrhus to the Senate or of Carneades or of Scepsius Metrodorus or els of our countreiman Hortensius I speake of the memoryes of the comen sorte of men And of those inespeciallye whiche spende the moste part of theyr lyfe in study whose memory how great it is it is hard to thynke They remember so many and sundrye thinges But to what ende belongeth this my talke To consider what thys power of remēbraunce from whence it is It comes not surely frō the hart bloude or brayne neither yet from Democritus moa●es I knowe not whether the soule be fyer or aer neither am I ashamed to confesse that I am ignoraunt in that whiche I knowe not but this I may boldly affirme as wel as anye man maye in so darke a matter as this is that whether the soule be fyer or aer it is vndoubtedlye an heauenlye thing For is there any mā that would thinke that so wonderfull a power of memorye could be made eyther of the earth or els of this darke cloudy aer For although you do not see what our remēbraunce is yet what maner thing it is you may wel perceyue Or if that you can not do yet you may wel vnderstand how great a thing it is Shall we then thinke that there is any capacity or voide place in the soule into y e which as into a vessel all those thinges which we do remember are powred That trulye were very foolyshe For what bottome mighte there be of such a vessell or what mighte be the shape of suche a soule or what so greate widenes mighte there be in the soule What should we thinke that our soule is imprinted as it were waxe and that our remembraunce is the ouersight of those thinges which sticke imprynted in our heartes But what pryntes may there be of wordes eyther what suffyciente marckes of thynges or what so huge a space maye there be in the soule in the which all those thynges whyche we remember myght be prynted Furthermore what thynke you of that parte of our mynde whyche syndeth oute suche thynges as were neuer knowen before and is therefore called inuention can that be made of this earthlye frayle and compounde nature thynke you What thinke you of him whyche fyrst of all gaue euerye thinge his propre name whyche Pythagoras counted a part of great wisedome or of him whiche fyrst gathered men together to one society felowship of life what thinke you of him also who firste cōprised the tunes of our voice which somed to be in maner infinite in a fewe notes Or of him who first marked y e motions progressions stations of the .7 planets How iudge you also of them who fyrst founde oute corne cloathinge houses orders for mans life defence againste wilde beastes by whom after that we were tamed and broughte from wildenes besydes oure necessities we haue inuented thinges for pleasure For ther is inuented a temperate varietie of the diuers nature of sundrye tunes to delyght our eares and also our eyes toke great pleasure in markīg as wel those sterres whyche are fastned in certayne places of the fyrmament as also the other whiche are called althoughe they be not so in deede wanderers the conuersions and motions of the whyche whose soule did fyrste perceyue he dyd playnely teache that his soule was like to him which had fyrst made those thinges in heauen For when Archymedes made the motions of