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heaven_n	great_a	lord_n	power_n	7,329	5	4.8289	4	true

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A96888	A dialogue, arguing that arch-bishops, bishops, curates, neuters, are to be cut-off by the law of God; therefore all these, with their service, are to be castout by the law of the land. Notwithstanding, the world pleads for their own, why some bishops should be spared; the government maintained; the name had in honour still; but the word of God is cleare against all this, for the casting-of-all-forth. The great question is, which way of government now? For two wayes are contended for, The Presbyteriall and Independent: something is said to both these wayes: but we have a sure word for it, that these two wayes are but in shew two, and will assuredly meet in one. Neuters are shewen openly here, and the curse of God upon them. Presented to the Assembly of Divines.	Woodward, Ezekias, 1590-1675.	1644 (1644)	Wing W3486A; Thomason E34_10; ESTC R22862	54,646	56

fourth reason here There is no need of the name Cast it away and there will be no lacke Lastly should I reade you a leafe in the Rhem Testament how effectuall the holding-up and keeping-in of names has been for the keeping-in of abominable persons and things you would yeeld mee so farre at least That this name Bishop is to be abolished I have don A. And I am satisfied and at a sweet agreement in my soule That Arch-bishops Lord-Bishops their Government and office is to be thrust-out and the name abolished I pray you heartily give me leave to weepe B. You need not aske leave you have a command for that Weepe with them that weepe It is sufficient you have a command to weepe for your owne sinnes and others and for the slaine of the people You have example for it too To make your couch swim with teares your eyes flow like rivers and to make the place you stand in a Bochim * Judg. 1. 5 a place of weeping for reasons many from within and from without weepe and spare not A. To tell you the truth I never thought of this kinde of weeping I asked you leave to weepe for company with the Kings and Merchants of the earth Because their gods are taken away and what have they more B. O monstrous weepe for company with the Kings and Merchants of the earth This indeed is to weepe with them that weepe but it is to doe as those women did who sate weeping for Tammuz Ezek. 8. 14 A. That is Hebrew is it not B. No nor Greeke neither It was an Aegyptian-god a most abominable Idoll As comely a posture now for Kings and Merchants of the earth to sit weeping over the Hierarchy amore abominable Idoll than was that Tammuz A. I yeeld to you heartily But truly I intended to weepe in a merriment onely as I have heard one did and so I le tell you a Story to refresh you and my selfe a little A little man but a great Tyrant was ferrying-over to a place from whence he must never returne And a poore Cobler who was mightily oppressed by that Tyrant was in the same Boat with him The Tyrant wept heartily for he was taken from all his gods he should see them no more neither his Palaces nor his Lordships and so he cryed lamentably The Ferriman a merry fellow would make the Cobler cry too and so he did O mee poore Cobler I have taken Sanctuary now at the place where the wicked cease from troubling where the weary lie at rest They heare not the voyce of the oppressed O mee poore wretch I shall mend shooes no more I shall labour no more I shall feele neither hunger nor thirst any more B. I le heare no more not a word more though I know it might be well applyed You have made it pretty Christian yet it is not for this place I would have you rejoyce in all the peoples sight and sing aloud for joy of heart for so the upright doe Certainly there is the same cause now to rejoyce as the Church had when they went through the Psal 66. 6. flood on foote There did wee rejoyce in Him our Fathers went over wee rejoyce And for the same reason for wee say now as they did then Thy right hand O Lord is become glorious in power and so forth for wonderfull workes follow as are the workes of GOD now adayes Certainly the Church has the same cause of rejoycing as it had when the great Dragon was cast-out Then was heard a loud voyce saying in Rev. 12. 9 10. heaven in the Church now is come salvation c. reade it out Certainly the Churches time is coming nay it is come when Babylon must be throwne downe Therefore wee must now heare a great voyce of much Rev. 18. 21 people in heaven the Church saying Hallelujah Salvation and glory and honour and power unto the Lord our God Amen Rev. 19. 1. A. I thanke you Sir you have made good use of my fained teares and fained mirth you have taught mee how to doe both in good earnest B. It is an hard lesson heare me forth I pray you and The LORD grant I may heare my selfe 1 If you doe weep indeed if you are grieved indeed then your griefe is more That you have grieved GOD than because His and your Adversaries have grieved you that is first 2 If you rejoyce indeed then you rejoyce with trembling 3. If you prayse GOD indeed for the workes He has done I cannot expresse how wonderfull they are then you live to His praise That is Selah then you rise-high in praises when your life praiseth Him that is when your conversation is in heaven If God your God is your strength then He is your Song If He be your Salvation He is your praise too 4. If you long to see God appeare in His Glory To see Him worshipped according to His Command in a Church-way Then you are fitting and making your heart meet for such a worship and you commune with your owne heart upon your bed enquiring what holinesse you have gained by the Ordinances you now have for they that are not good husbands and thriving under these I cannot tell whether they shall be trusted with greater matters 5. And to shutt up this matter If it be with you as aforesaid Then your heart is open and your mouth open and your purse is open and your hands hang not down All you have and all you are shall be expended laid out for Him for His Name for His cause for His servants All for Him who hath so laid-forth all His Attributes for us A falling sinking dying Nation All for Him forget it not who remembred us in our low estate All for Him Amen A. I joyne with you heartily and that is all the answer I can make to all the fore-mentioned I must enquire further of you for resolution now The Government by Bishops it is gone it is fallen like a great Milstone It shall be found no more in heaven the Church Amen There are now two wayes of Government I expresse it as I can and as I conceive it in the most popular way The Presbyterian way the Independent way The Adversary meets mee in both wayes crosseth mee in the one choakes mee in the other I beseech you Sir for Gods sake and His cause be pleased to give mee satisfaction that I may satisfie others who finding mee almost your Conver● B. I le cut you short there I pray you doe not call your selfe my Convert If the Word of GOD has not turned you hold you where you first were for Arch-bishops Lord or Diocesan-Bishops hold you there A. God forbid But I pray you pardon the Word It relates to you but as to an instrument and let mee goe on My Adversaries finding me a Convert hitt mee in the teeth with this You are for the Scotts Discipline the Presbyteriall-Government a Rigid Government worse than

answered their names have they magnified their office have they given attendance to 1 Tim. 4. 1● Ezek. 22. 30. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 reading to exhortation to doctrine or when The LORD sought for a man amongst them I say a man * to speake for Him was there a man amongst them the Bishops all that did appeare They should have taken His people by the hand now in this day of their trouble doe they A man indeed that has the fire of zeal in him will stand in the breach till hee has hedged-up the hedge doe it I say againe doe they doe it or doe they take the people of GOD by their throats GOD is witnesse even GOD is witnesse He is witnesse also What blasphemies they have heard belched-out from the Pulpit and they were silent the while and afterwards What hard words have they heard in the Court pointed out against His hidd●n ones which they reproved not Reproved not encouraged rather God knowes what ungodly deeds they have seene and how the best of the Bishops have strengthened the hand of the wicked doing violence to the godly GOD knows all this He knowes even the Holy One who trieth the reines and searcheth the hearts understanddeth the thoughts long before He knowes That the best of them have dealt most corruptly in His matters most treacherously with His people in the Day of visitation most wickedly in the Covenant The best of them is a briar Mich. 7. 4. Th● most upright is sharper than a thorne-hedge The day of Thy Watchmen and Thy visitation cometh now shall be their p●rplexitie Amen A. I cannot joyne with you You should have pulled out the Primate hence and Bishop Hall before you had said Amen Why man The LORD bids you put a difference betwixt the good and the bad the precious and the vile And when the LORD visits a people in wrath Psal 4. 4. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Exo. 8. 22 B. 9. 4. 11. 17. Aug. de civit Dei l. 1. cap. 9. See Cure of feares pag. 33. and indignation then He sets a marke He makes a seperation H● marvellously seperateth a B. He do●● indeed then He sets apart then He seperates indeed Then He sets a marke a legible marke a proper and peculiar marke upon His chosen ones But not visible to a common eye as it was in the 4. Psalme and other places No good and bad the precious and the vile are carried away with the same floud of GODS wrath there is no distinction made to your outward eye for the reasons intimated before more fully set downe in that notable Chapter pointed to in the margin b But because I finde your spirit grieved I le open the sacred Records and reade what wee finde there This That Num. 25. 3. Israel joyned himselfe unto Baal-Peor an abominable Idoll and the anger of The LORD was kindled against Israel What was Israels Idolatry Primari●s populi Iun. to their Governors and Chief-taines the Heads of Israel c Yes to them and they must suffer for it What! The people joyned to Baal-Peor and the Heads of the people lookers-on They must be hanged up all for that It is the Charge of the LORD Take all the heads of the people and hang them up All the heads you will observe that All. Doubtlesse some heads did not contrive for the setting up or serving that shame d Hos 9. ●0 Nay doubtlesse some heads there thought the setting up that shame and serving before it To be as abominable as any heads amongst us judged the Declaration for sports that shame to be even so abominable Nay doubtlesse could they have maintained their honours and head-ships amongst and over the people they would have withstood that abominable service the peoples joyning to Baal-Peor that shame But not one not one man was found that would doe as Phineas did not a man that would show his head appearing for GOD and against that shame Therefore Take all the heads and hang them up Where Before The LORD before whose glorious eye they committed that abomination And because not one of these men would shew their heads would appeare for their Lord hang them up before the Sun put them to shame make them a publike example shew them openly make them a spectacle set their heads before that Sun which they made an Idoll that all may point at them with the finger and say These are they who did slinke away who hid their heads would not appeare when time was for their Great Lord and Master in heaven Now they doe appeare Now they are showen openly before the Sun It must be so don it ought to be so don for GOD has said it Take all the HEADS of the people and hang them-up before the LORD against the Sun that the feirce anger of the Numb 25. 4. LORD may be turned away from Israel Looke you well upon it consider it well and you must conclude from hence That all the Bishops the chiefe the Primate and Metropolitan the great men and mean men all must be thrust downe all cast-out I le carry it no higher than to a thrusting downe a casting-out Hang them-up before the LORD and against the Sun That I leave to the Judges as it followes* But if you Vers 5. 6. will not yeeld so farr for the Thrusting all the Bishops downe and casting them all out Then I must say you are the man who will not be satisfied from reason or Scripture nor from the mouth and command of GOD. A. I am satisfied I yeeld them up all patiently to the Justice of the Law And I say now Currat lex siat justicia ruat mundus Let the Law have its course let Justice be don though the earth shake and the kingdomes be moved yea shattered to pieces let Justice be done Amen But B. What another But yet and so out of place you are not satisfied I perceive touching this All. A. Yes that I am content That all these Arch-bishops they are but two be thrust out And all these Bishops every man Take them even All the heads and c. B. Speak out man the terror of an Arch-bishop or a Lord cannot make you afraid now GOD will be terrible to them speake out And hang them-up before the Sun that followes A. True But I was speaking for them yet indeed I am ashamed but I consider All your Allegations are but vitia personarum these may be thrust away or hanged-up before the Sun and others thrust into their places for indeed Arch-biships are venerable for their Antiquitie B. Ah Lord What a word is that The same word will serve to establish errour very ancient Truth its opposite but a few hou●es before it Venerable for Antiquitie You may say as much for the Devill too that old Serpent Venerable for Antiquitie So is Sunday and Monday and so through the whole weeke and Saints dayes as we fooles miscall them anciently called by

Set open the Ale-house you may be sure some body will come reeling out The same may be said of setting up May-poles and countenancing other sports thereto belonging You cannot command them and forbid the taking pleasure to riott in the day time Wee doe not reade and it is worth our observation that Balaam did command the people to commit whoredome with the daughters of Moah He did not point Zimri and Cosb● to goe to the Tent in the face of the Congregation and on that solemn day he had more civilitie than so Balaam Numb 24. 14. Chap. 31. 16. See Trem. did advise onely so and no more Balaam was an old Man as he was so his counsell must be grave not seemingly sowre nor apparently uncivill Let Isra●l and Moab come to an inter-view let them see each others faces let them be present at each others sacrifices This was the Counsell but worse than a curse for now folly will be committed in I●●●l no doubt of that And then The GOD of Israel will be offended wi●h Israel He will depart and then a curse followes as certain as when the Cloud is thicke The thunder-clap followes in our senses the sparkling flash Bad Counsell is worse than sower Counsell and more poyson u● for by bad counsell not sower counsell Balaam taught Balack To lay a stumbling block before Israel as the Spirit calleth a Rev. 2. 14 it And it proved in the issue sower counsell too Israel found it so as wee reade b Numb 25. 9. 1 Cor. 10. 8 To apply here The Bishops did not command Idolatry saying Goe serve other gods No but they set-up Altars That was enough to defile the whole Land and to make a people commit adultery with stones and with stocks c Jer. 3. 9. The Bishops did not command Tipling and Drunkennesse No But they commanded sports and pass-times Whitson-Ales and May-poles Allow the cause and countenance that you allow the effect and countenance that also which naturally issueth thence If the maid lay leaven in three pecks of meale shee need not command it to sower the whole lumpe Put fire and fuell together you need not bid it to burne Set a desirable object before the eye you need not command the heart to lust after it Set the windowes doores gates all open you need not bid the enemy enter A small sparke falling into gunpowder you know what it will doe whether you will or no or though you command the contrary And you know as well That they who command Wakes Whitson-Ales setting up May-poles and other sports therewith used do command filthy Tiplings and Drunkennesse and other abuses in such distempers usuall I have been the longer upon this to cleare your judgement in so necessary a point I proceed now to the next Question Did the Bishops but endeavour was it but their seeking onely To turne the Deputy from the faith Act. 13. 8. A. I cannot make answere here for I cannot tell whose endeavour and seeking it was I can tell All are turned from the Faith King and Bishop Priest and people and all All are turnd away from God that is cleare enough The Church and State are turned up-side downe what possibly Church-men could doe But who was the chiefest Artist and Turner here that I cannot so well tell B. If you cannot you are content to be informed at this point from them who can tell us from ancient Records That the Bishop turned the Deputy from the faith and with him very much people wee will reade the Records but consider with mee first How high the Bishops Power and Authoritie was A. How high the Bishops Power He was not in the Zenith d The Zenith is the highest point in the heavens over your head The Nadar is that point of earth your foot stands upon The place wher the Popes must be laid and their honours in the Dust of the Church for there onely the Pope sits Take it at the height of its elevation The Bishops power was but Derivative as a streame from the See of Rome a bastard-power from the Pope B. You are mistaken our Bishops power was as independant as the Popes power is as absolute a Pope in his Diocesse and that was all over the Land as the Pope is all over the Christian world And all his Actions Dictates Determinations c. were as Magisteriall and Pope-like as ever were the Bishops in Rome But I pray you consider with mee what I was about to say but that you interrupted mee 2. What an influence like some malignant Starr the Bishops power had from the Councell-Table Starr-chamber every Court and place into the affaires and transactions of Church and State 3. Enquire wee of ancient dayes and wee shall well understand That while the Priests were good The King was good When the people might say He is a very good Priest Then they might say He is a very good King Jehojada an excellent Priest for he made a Covenant between 2 Chron. 23. 16. God the King and the People That all should be not their owne but The LORDS People an excellent Priest he So was Joash the King as forward and zealous to say no more as the Priest was * Ver. 6. The Priests zeale kindled the Kings zeale made it fervent and boyling-hott So it was like the burning of thornes quickly in a flame and as quickly out It was not a zeale a fire from above But this is the point So long as the Priest was excellently good a living example before the Kings eye so long the King was good Zechariah a very good Priest too And in his dayes Vzziah was a very good King for he sought God in the dayes of 2 Chro. 26 Zechariah and all that while he prospered I might be large wee will reade but one or two Records more The one tells us 4. That the Temple and the Temple-worke there was never defiled while the chiefe Priests there did their office It is true The King fretted against the Priests and stormed against the LORD till the LORD 2 Chron. 26. 20. smote him in his forehead then he was calme and still But while the chiefe Priest and fourescore more with him did their office all was well except the King It was ill with him who did fret against the Priests because they did their office and against The Lord That charged them so It was ill with him But the Censer and the Sacrifice was in their hands unto whom it did belong To offer unto the LORD and serve before Him Let us record one example more and that will relate to these times King Ahaz had a servant a Right man for his s●●vice But as vile a Priest as was in all Judah What was the King If any man makes it a question The sacred Records will resolve him As miserable a King as his Idolatries other abominations could make him And his Priest the basest servant in the world a

to stretch it out that it might fill-up as much as possibly the hide could hold But they cut large thongs out of it as we say and so stretched and tentered those thongs that they could reach over so much ground as thereon to build a Citie as capacious as Philippi was King Philips towne and there they placed if I well remember one Regent Here was a notable policie to get ground Truly the Bishop has dealt as politickly with the Diocesse he has made it wide and large he has cut large thongs out of it he has gained much ground if all be gain that comes to his hand he has built a palace thereon and found a Lordship there and there he was there he had elbow-roomth enough and was a Lord in his Diocesse Do you understand what an over-grown thing this Diocesse is How the Bishop hath lengthened it what incomes the Bishop hath from it what provisions were made for him there And yet Lucullus coenat cum Lucullo as he said when he had prepared a supper for a King which he al●ne did partake of All these provisions and preparations are but for one Bishop all this to cram and fatten one Capon that was his name who was predecessor to Mr. Juel of him anon as vile as the other was pretious You know a Diocesan Bishop now and what his Diocesse is A monstrous thing wherein I know not how many hundred parishes are crowded-up together that there may bee more roomth for the Lord. You understand this A. Yes I thank you I understand your meaning fully That you would have a Bishop in every Parish B. My understanding is not cleare there For to be briefe with you First I doe not allow of the name Bishop and I beleeve when I shall have told you somthing about it as I shall anon you will not allow the name neither 2. And for a Parish I doe not well understand that division or who made that distinction A. Can you tell what you would have B. Yes I thank God I would have in such a place as Philippi was Bishops and Deacons for that is according to Gods expresse will Phil. 1. 1. A. Very true But how many Bishops and Deacons must there be for such a place as Philippi was B. I cannot tell the number But there must bee a Bishop and Deacons for every Diocesse A. So think I too one Bishop for one Diocesse non est elenchus inter nos we are agreed B. True but then it must not be a Diocesse stretched out and tentered as the Oxes-hide was beyond all imagination We were concluded even now that that is properly a Diocesse which one man can oversee and whereunto his voyce can reach when his people are assembled in their meeting-place A. A meeting-place Why not a Church B. Your question is not to purpose therefore you shall have no answer Can you except against any word that has been last spoken touching the Diocesse and the Bishop there that is the question A. In effect I have answered already No for what you have spoken is the expresse will and word of GOD. But you seem to hold that there is no superiority in the Church quit your selfe there first that I may resolve others touching that great objection B. That I will These words Bishops and Deacons a Tit. 1. 5. not my words hold forth the contrary so also these and ordain Elders a These words doe inferre not onely That the Ministers are above their people but that there is a superioritie amongst themselves nature sense reason the naturall body if wee should goe over it and observe the parts from top to toe will cleare all this There is the head and so downward put your finger into your mouth that is the little worlds heaven there are upper and lower teeth but all doe the same service for the body It is so in the body politique There are some for Counsell they are heads Some for direction they are eyes Some to uphold and beare up others they are shoulders Some for action they are hands It is so in the house of Parliament two houses they say there are Speakers in both to whom all turne themselves when they speake Superiours for the time and when the worke is done then there may be a change It is so in every Court a Chaire there and some one sitting in it It is so in the Assembly of Divines every where in Church Chappell House It is fit it should be so nay it must be so What a fond conceit is it then to thinke That there cannot be Over-seers in the Church but they must be everlasting Lords and as perpetuall Dictators There is a destinction of gifts of graces therefore of persons and of places How grosse a mistake now to thinke That wee allow of no Superiours because wee abhorre those that have Lorded it over the LORDS inheritance Wee doe indeed for it is expresse against the command of GOD. I might be large here but you are a sober man you are satisfied touching Superiours and I have quitted my selfe at that point have I not A. Indeed you have But now That wee are as our vowes are upon us throwing-down and rooting-out the Hierarchy that Antichristian that cursed Government Its friends make clamours against us I le tell you what they say very briefly for so you will answer I am sure They bring Scripture and object first That wee speake evill of Dignities Jude 8. Verse 10. B. Bid them say on things which wee know not Then bid them prove That wee know not what the Dignities of Arch-bishops and Bishops have been or know not that they be evill Bid them prove that but that they can never doe wee know those Dignities are evill and sith they call evill good woe unto them What say they next They speak Scripture still So did the Devill too What is it A. That the Arch-bishops and Bishops are Powers Therefore not to be resisted for there must be no resisting of Powers B. Bid them reade on That are ordained of God Now bid them prove that Arch-bishops and Lord Bishops c. are ordained of GOD are the ordinance of God Rom. 13. A. I have enough to choak my adversaries now B. No but you have not They will goe on with the argument but marke how they proceed Just as a boy that goes upon his head his heeles are upward and so he spurnes against heaven Just so these kinde of men will goe-on till they have wrought out this conclusion That the Devill and mans will are to be obeyed Their Reason for they are POVVERS and all powers are of God doe you observe A. Yes very well and I am sure I shall be too hard for my Adversaries Aug. takes away the honour Lord from the Bishop leaves him the work The Bishop does clean contrary takes to himself all the honour and leaves the work Lib. 19. ca. 19. 1 Tim 3. 1 Thes 2. 7