S. Three that may as it were be pointed at he he he Fox I do not like that argument T. S. Therefore further are you three Persons that dispute against me Fox Yea. T. S. Prove it Fox We are in 3 places and therefore 3 persons T. S. Therefore replied the Father Son and Holy Ghost have been in three places and therefore 3. persons at the Baptism of Christ s Argumentum ad hominem while Jesus came up the Holy-Ghost down and the Father in heaven Fox Persons have flesh and blood t Learnedly T. S. Angels are persons and have not one of them said Angels are not persons u Well versed in Metaphysicks Fox A person is a subsistence T. S. So are Father Son and holy Ghost T. S. Further argued He who denies the Bible to be the word of God saying that to assert Scripture to be the word of God is one of the deceitful immaginations which the Priests of this generation have deceived the people with that man is an Heretick But you deny the Bible to be the word and tell Mr. Townsend that to assert it is one of the deceitful imaginations which the Priests of this generation have deceived the people with See Ishmael and his mother cast out p. 1. lin 1. therefore This was not answered but Fox said they cannot be three persons because they were not visible in several places T. S. If Christ was man and the holy Ghost was in the form of a Dove then they were both seen Fox Prove that they were seen in several places T. S. One was seen in the water the other out Fox Prove they were seen w Fox could not or would not see T.S. Many beheld them both Fox The Holy Ghost could not be seen T. S. He was in the form of a Dove therefore could be seen Fox Not in the form of a Dove but in the likeness x Rare hereat some laughing he answered that he was seen but not visible y Surely his religion reason and wits were lost By this relation it is visible to be seen 1. Their boldness 2. Their crowing without cause 3. Their inability to argue 4. Their little or no learning z At least that any of them will be known of 5. Their strange opinions about the Trinity and Scripture 6. How they run beyond all reason and sense to defend their tenets Lastly Their obstinacy when nâ—ither Scripture reason nor sense can convince them their damnable errours and stupid obstinacy will surely conclude such men Hereticks CHAP. IX A brief relation of three Disputations at Sandwich April 1659. between Fisher Whitehead and Hubberthorn Quakers and Mr. Danson Minister there 1. Disputation April 12. § T. Quakers folly p. 1. Edit 2. Quest WHether every man that cometh into the world be enlightned by Christ Danson We grant every man hath some light by which he discerns though dimly many 1. Sins 2. Duties 3. Divine Attributes but the mysterie of godlinesse 1 Tim. 3. ult God manifest in the flesh justified in the spirit c. we deny that all men have the knowledge of Hubberthorn The light is but one Danson The lights mentioned 1. Naturall and 2. Supernaturall are two though all have the one yet few the other If your meaning be that the knowledge of the Gospel is vouchsafed by Christ to every man I prove the contrary 1. Psal 147.19 20. He sheweth his word unto Jacob his statutes and judgements unto Israel he hath not dealt so with any nation and as for his judgements they have not known them By the Word Statutes and Judgements are meant the knowledge of the Gospel and the Psalmist asserts no nation beside the Jewes had this knowledge at this time 2. Ephes 2.12 Speaking of the Gentiles before Christ the Apostle sayes they were without Christ strangers from the covenant of promise having no hope and without God in the world They who had no hope that is no ground of hope of salvation were ignorant of the promises the ground of hope and so of God in Christ the object of hope and so of the summe of the Gospel Geo. Whitehead Rom. 2.15 sayes The Gentiles have the Law in their hearts Danson It is spoken of the natural light for it s opposed to the knowledge of the Jewes Whitehead It is said to be the knowledge of whatsoever might be known of God Rom. 1.19 Danson The Apostle intends that what might be known of God without the preaching of the Gospel was known to the Gentiles vers 16 17. It is by the Gospel the righteousness of God is revealed John 4.22 Christ tells the Samaritans the Jewes exclusively knew what they worshipped and that salvation was of the Jews and in respect of this Gospel-knowledge the Gentiles are said to have their understandings darkned Ephes 9.18 Whitehead That place sayes that the Gentiles were not so enlightned as afterward for 't is said that Christ was given for a light to lighten the Gentiles Danson It proves not that Christ was a light to the Gentiles in every age and generation but after his coming in the flesh Acts 13.46 47. Loe we turn to the Gentiles for so hath the Lord commanded us saying I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles That of the Ephesians denies the Gentiles at all to have been enlightned by Christ unlesse as God before Christ they were afar off from God and Christ and the knowledge of them Ephes 4.18 Alienated from the life of God In potentia proxima oâ— sensu composito which imports their understandings no more capable of the knowledge of God then creatures of one kind of life to converse with another So that the Gentiles wanted the light of the Gospel and light in their understandings as the light of the Sun is requisite externally and the light in the eye so the Gospel and an enlightned understanding Geo. Whitehead Thou makest the Gospel an outward light But 2 Cor. 4.6 the Apostle says it shines out of darkness in their hearts Danson The Apostle speaks of material light and argues from the effect of one creating word to another that by the like word of command he had the light or knowledge of Christ in his understanding As for in their hearts it is the same with Ephes 1.18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightned the light by which the Gospel is discerned is inward but the Gospel it self outward Whitehead 2 Cor. 4.6 The Apostle sayes The light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ shined in their hearts Danson In whose Not of all mankind but of the Apostles and some others a small number in comparison and therefore vers 3. the Apostle sayes The Gospel was hid to them that were lost And vers 4. There are some to whom the light of the Gospel doth not shine And Mat. 13.11 it was given to the Disciples not to others to know the mysteries of the
by a (z) Fashioning their doctrine to practise a new light publick doctrine This doctrine then was readily embraced by those whose age and temper was aptest to consult with flesh and blood None refraining himself from multiplication of wives for want or covetousness for their wives were kept upon the common-Stock Neither did they keep any face of Order or any shew of modesty in those marriages for presently after the receiving of that Law the brethren ran to the hansomest women of the City striving who should be served first and lay with them without any form of contract so that within few days there was not one woman of 14. years of age but was violated (a) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 2 Pet 2.14 But those of the City that yet had some remnant of sound mind being extreamly grieved with disorder and groaning under that foul tyranny made a party and laid hold of John of Leyden Knipperdolling and all the Prophets which coming to the ears of the frantick rabble of people which made the greatest number they took arms and rescued the Prophets and killed fifty of their adversaries most of them in cold blood and with several kinds of devised cruelties (b) Seducers cruel John of Leyden encouraging the murtherers and crying that he that would do God service should give the first blow CHAP. IV. Continuation of the siege of Munster The reign of John of Leyden The taking of Munster The deserved punishment of the Rebels VVHile they were thus wiving and striving in Munster the Bishop had fair play if he could have husbanded the occasion Some weak attempts he made with ill success and having till then born the charges of the warr alone he was afterwards assisted with men and mony by Herman Archbishop of Colen and John Prince of Cleves and asked succour of all the Cities of the Rhyne about which demand there was a meeting appointed to be held at Coblents Decemb. 13. 1534. This long delay gave time to John of Leyden to project new designs He declared that the Spirit of Prophesie was retired from him and reposed upon John Tuscocurer a Goldsmith of Warendorp And this new Prophet having called the Congregation together declared that it was the will of the heavenly Father that John of Leyden should be (a) He wil cease to be a Prophet that he may be King King of the Universe And that with mighty Armies he should kill all Kings and Princes and destroy all the ungodly and save the people that love righteousness and that he must possess the Kingdom of his Father David till the time come that he must deliver the Kingdom to his Father (b) The hâ—ight of blasphemy And that all the ungodly being killed the godly should reign in the World Whereupon John of Leyden fell on his knees and lifting up his hands to heaven said Men and brethren so much I knew long ago but I would not reveal it Now God hath made choice of another to bear witness to that truth Then said Tuscocurer again Thus saith the Lord As I set Saul to be King in Israel and after him David taken from the Sheep-fold so I have set John Becold my Prophet to be King in Sion And when the Senate refused that prophesie the Prophet refused the Senate and appealed to the Congregation sâ—ying Give ear Israel Thou shalt abrogate thy Magistrates and put down thy Preachers and instead of them establish 12 simple men (c) Simple men seduced great agents for Satan without any learning them thou shalt command that they read my word unto my people and without any help but my spirit expound it into them will I pour the spirit of wisdom and understanding Then giving a sword to of John of Leyden And to thee saith he Father Becold the Father giveth this sword and calleth thee not only to be King in Sion but over all the World and to extend thine Empire unto the ends of the earth This oracle was followed with great shoutings and acclamations of the people crying God save the King and presently he was brought to S. Lamberts Church-yard and there again proclaimed K. There the new King created four Counsellors of State the chief whereof was one Gerard a Book-binder one Talbeck he made Lord Steward of his houshold Gerard Kippenbrok Treasurer of his Plate and Jewels Knipperdolling Governor of the City and appointed twelve Archers of his Guard This Taylor King presently made use of his skill to make himself fine in clothes He translated the copes and carpets of the Churches convents into dublets and breeches and cloaks which set off his Majesty all in gold and silver His horses wore a suitable livery richly harnessed with golden and silver Saddles and footcloths he had great change of rich apparel in which he appeared abroad having his chief Officers aid Counsellors riding before him in great State Next to him rid two young men richly attired the one carrying a naked sword with a golden hilt set with precious stones the other carried a Bible and a triple Crown of gold of exquisite work glittering with diamonds Himself wore a great chain of gold about his neck like a Coller of some noble Order with a golden Globe having a golden Sword thorough it hanging at the chain with this Motto about the Globe Rex justitiae hujus mundi the King of Righteousness of this world After him followed fifty Pensioners clad with parti-coloured garments of ash-colour and grass-green white caps and golden rings on every finger making the ash-colour an emblem of mortification the grass-green of regeneration the white caps of innocencie the golden rings of charity but among these prophetical riddles he ordered his Court with so much State and so disposed his Officers that if he had been a King born he could have done it no better So much all his adversaries acknowledge In that Royal array he shewed himself three times a week in publick and went up to a high Throne set up with great magnificence Under him sate Knipperdolling Governour of the City and lower his four great Counsellors of State In that Court he he judged of all controversies most of which were about divorces for by his new orders any man that was weary of his wife might take another as many more as he listed which could not but multiply suits and give work to the new King and his Counsellors and Prophets In that Court Knipperdolling would ever come out with some Bedlam rapture Once he fell flat to the ground and creeping upon his hands and feet he went to several persons of the Assembly and blowing them in the mouth said The Father hath sanctified thee receive the holy Ghost Another time he fell a dancing saying So I danc't once with my little harlot and now the heavenly Father hath commanded me that I should dance so in the Kings presence Another time before the King came he sate in his chair of Majesty
in interpretation to set them above them as he that loves any thing equal to God loves it indeed more then God the setting up of any writings in equipage with Gods is a debasing of his word Again some of them assert that they have as full b There fulnesse is of the evil one p. 3. Q. 10. at the end of a Gagg a measure of the Spirit as the penners of the Scriptures had * Truths Defence p. 43. the fulnesse of the Spirit is well known by the emptinesse of their fruits had they said that they have as full measure of the evil spirit as Marcian primogenitus diaboli the first born of the Divel as Polycarpe calls him they had come neer the Truth This corner-stone being laid by these Master-builders of Sathans Babel they go on to deny 1. The personal body of Christ George Fox being asked whether Christ have a body in heaven and be a particular man or person Truths defence p. 78. 79. incompassed with a body to live for ever yea or no affirms That Christ hath but one body and that is the Church That 1 Christs mystical body corpus mysticum is the Church and that 2 This is but one is according to truth answerable to that we beleive Sanctam Catholicam Ecclesiam the Holy Catholick Church but 3 That Christ hath but one body is contradictory to the whole History of the four Evangelists which so often speakes of that body which he took of the Virgin Mary of whom Christ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 after the flesh came as Paul phrases it and how he ascended and shall come again Luke acquaints us Acts 1 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 9 10 11. Shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him goe into heaven But this is not the first time that this Heresie hath been broached nor confuted many a hundred yeers ago were these things upon the stage of the World dic mihi aliquid novi aut tace trouble us not with old rotten stinking errours Secondly In their book called The persecution of the Quakers First the corporeal Body of Christ And secondly his coming in the Clouds to to judgment are denyed 1 pag. 8. Priest Herrick did affirm before the Magistrate and many others that the body of Christ is not spiritual and when he was by William Adamson challenged for his blasphemy he said he would prove it by Scripture and produced those words Christ said I am not a spirit and then he was by him charged with a lie for there was no such words in that Scripture 2. p. 9. Let their own words try them who look for a Christ yet to come as some of them said what will yee Quakers do who saith Christ is within you when Christ comes in the clouds here now all people do but honestly examine and see whether these spirits confess Christ who looks for him yet to come and whether you dare believe the Apostle every spirit who doth not confess Christ Jesus come in the flesh is not of God or these deceivers who look for him yet to come these things are so palpably gross and weak yea even irrational that their needs no words to the misproving of them 2. The Visible Church Whereas a Book entituled fiery darts saith R.B.Q. 20. p. 26. that since the Apostles dayes there hath been a great Apostacie and that a true Church of Christ could not be found are you of the same mind Answ yea Herein agreeing with those formerly called Seekers 1. That there was and is a great Apostacie as the Scripture foretold so experience hath evidenced and that Apostacie in all ages more or less hath been witnessed against V. Catalogum testiū veritatis but 2. such an Apostacie as hath wholy destroyed the Church and laid it so under ground as that it cannot be found what is this c. what is this but to make much of Scripture at present of no use which directs Sts. concerning Church Communion among others Heb. 13.17 obey them that have the rule over you and submit your selves for they watch for your souls 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 2. To invalidate those promises of Christ Matth. 16.18 Vpon this rock will I build my Church and the Gates of Hell shall not prevail against it and I will give unto thee the Keys of the Kingdome of heaven 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And Matth. 28.20 Loe I am with you already to the end of the World 3. To give you this whole World visibly into the hands of the Prince of the World as if Christ had not overcome but being overcome by Sathan 3. Thirdly against the Scriptures 1. That it is dangerous for the ignorant and unlearned to read the Scriptures Truths defence pag. 101. 1. How far is this from the assertion of the Papists 2. How doth it justifie them in their prohibiting of Lay-men to read the word 3. and makes fair way to usher in Imagines laicorum libros Images as Lay-mens Books Secondly If any raises from the Scriptures points trials motives uses he adds to the Scriptures and to him are added the curses and plagues In eodem loco Rev. 22.18 Whether this but 1. to destroy all preaching 2. to condemn their own selves 3. to discover their ignorance between the explaining of Truth and coyning of falsehoods to passe as new truths their additions are corruptives the Ministers for illustration information incitation to edification 4. to condemn Christ and his Apostles which applied and urged in many places of the Scriptures out of the old Testament cited 3. Fiery darts p. 19. 30. 32. Quakers folly p. 25. 2. Ed. That the Scripture is not the word of God nor a standing rule In this way are grosely ignorant or wilfully malicious or both they will acknowledge no word of God but Christ as if no difference between verbum internum externum an inward and outward word verbum oris Scriptum the word spoken and written the thoughts of my mind are soliloquia a talking with my self what I speak is the word of my mouth and what I write is my word under my hand Christ is the eternal internal word of God the Wisdome of the father the Scriptures much of it was spoken by God by the mouth of his holy Prophets and all written as holy men of God were inspired by the Holy Ghost they would seem to exalt Christ it is to debase the Scriptures and deifie the light within them but if they will not hear Moses and the Prophets which testified of Christ neither would they Christ the word of God 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Heb. 1. 1. God who in sundry times and in diverse manners spake in times past unto the Fathers by the Prophets was not that then the word of God the prophets spake 2. And why not a standing rule The papists indeed say it is a nose of wax a leaden rule that the Pope may stand