of Gods seruants OF INTERCESSION OF SAINTS OVR CONSENT M. PERKINS Page 258. OVr consent I will set downe in two conclusions The first conclusion The Saints departed pray to God by giuing thankes to him for their owne redemption and for the redemption of the whole Church of God vpon earth The second conclusion The Saints departed pray generally for the state of the whole Church THE DISSENT THey hold that the Saints in heauen doe make intercession for particular men and that hauing receiued particular mens prayers they present them vnto God but this doctrine doe we flatly renounce vpon these groundes and reasons Esay 63. vers 16. The Church saith to God doubtlesse thou art our Father though Abraham be ignorant of vs and Israel knowe vs not Nowe if Abraham knewe not his posterity neither Mary nor Peter nor any Saint departed knowe vs and our estate and consequently they cannot make particular intercession for vs. To this vve answere two wayes first vvith S. Hierome vpon the same place that to knowe one is taken there for to like and approue him and his doings Psal 1. as it is very often in holy Scripture Our Lord knoweth the way of the just Item Christ vvill answere to them that were workers of iniquity Math. 7. vers 25. I knowe yee not as also to the foolish Virgins I knowe yee not that is I like you not euen so Abraham and Iacob could not then knowe that is approue the doing of those their wicked and degenerate children Secondly vve answere that Abraham and the holy Patriarkes vvere vntill Christ had by his passion paide their ransome not yet in the possession of heauenly joyes but detayned in a place of rest by the learned commonly called Lymbus Patrum To this second answere M. PER. replyeth If they say that Abraham was in Lymbo which they will haue to be a part of hell what joy could Lazarus haue in Abrahams bosome and with what comfort could Iacob say on his death bedde O Lord I haue wayted for thy saluation We rejoyne that albeit Lymbo be thought to be vnder the earth yet is it as farre remote from hell as the depth of the earth will giue it leaue for the place of Purgatory is betweene hell and it Further that in Lymbo there was no payne but a quiet expectation of their deliuerance from thence and translation into heauen vvhich brought them great joy besides the good company of many millions of holy soules that there attended the same happy houre of their deliuerance of all vvhich Lazarus vvas partaker being carryed into Abrahams bosome I vvill here omit that M. PER. in this very question maketh this matter of Lazarus but a parable and thereby not fit to confirme any point of doctrine in his owne judgement To the second place I say that Iacob might haue great comfort to thinke vpon his saluation vvhich should be accomplished in Christs time for Abraham who was father of them Ioh. 8. vers 56. 2. Reg. 22. vers 20. rejoyced to see Christs dayes which he sawe and was glad as our Sauiour himselfe testifieth The second reason Huldah the Prophetesse telleth Iosias that he must be gathered to his fathers and put in his graue in peace that his eyes might not see all the euill which God would bring on that place Therefore the Saints departed see not the state of the Church on earth this conclusion Augustine confirmeth at large To this vve answere first that the Prophetesse when shee saith he should not see the euill of that place meaneth no more then that he should be after his death in such a place of rest and contentment that it should not grieue and vexe him to see the just punishment of his owne Country Secondly it may be said of Iosias who dyed long before Christ as it is of Abraham that he vvas to remayne in Lymbo vvhen that euill should happen and so should not see it But Augustine saith he doth confirme this conclusion at large VVhy did not the honest man quote the place of S. Augustine as he is wont to doe was it because it would leade vs directly to the discouery of his deceit S. Augustine indeede doth very copiously handle the question what knowledge soules departed haue De cura pro mort ca. 15. 16. and resolueth that soules departed of their owne naturall knowledge doe not vnderstand what is done by their friendes here but that either by the report of other soules that come to them or of Angels that goe betweene or else by the reuelation of the spirit of God in whose presence Saints departed doe continually stand they may very well knowe that which is here done and thus much of S. Augustine in this place afterward you shall heare more of him concerning his opinion of the knowledge that Saints haue of our affaires The third reason of M. PERKINS No Creature Saint or Angell can be a Mediatour for vs to God sauing Christ alone for in a true Mediatour there must be three thinges First that the word of God must reueale and propound him vnto the Church Surely I should thinke that he must first be a perfect Mediatour before he be propounded for such a one Secondly a Mediatour must be perfectly just so as no sinne be found in him at all Such be all Saints in heauen Thirdly a Mediatour must be a propitiator that is he must bring to God some thing that may appease and satisfie his wrath for our sinnes so did Moyses vvhen he appeased Gods wrath justly kindled against the sinnes of the Israelites in the wildernesse thus might a man quickly answere M. PER. argument of his Mediatour But to explicate this matter more clearely and particularly I say that a Mediatour may be taken two waies First he may be called a Mediatour that doth in any sort imploy himself betweene two parties to agree them vvhether it be by perswasion or intreaty vvhether by letter or word of mouth and so is it commonly taken and that according vnto the proper signification of the word Secondly a Mediatour may be taken in an other sence not for euery one that vseth meanes of attonement but for him only that to make the agreement betweene the parties is content to pay the debt himselfe and to satisfie for al other damages and detrimentes and in this sence doth S. Paul say 1. Tim. 2. vers 5. That we haue one Mediatour the man IESVS Christ who gaue himselfe a redemption for all Note the latter vvordes and you shall see this my distinction of Mediatour to be gathered out of the Apostles owne wordes For saith he we haue one Mediatour that gaue himselfe a redemption for all that is that tooke the debts of all our sinnes vpon his owne shoulders and satisfied fully for all see here expressed the second kinde of Mediatour Nowe in the beginning of the Chapter he desireth that intercessions and prayers be made of the Christians for all men
he was when it pleased him visible to his Apostles and at other times inuisible and yet was not his man-hood thereby abolished as M. PER. would make vs beleeue no more is it when his body is in many places at once or in one place circumscribed and in the other vncircumscribed For these externall relations of bodies vnto their places doe no whit at all destroy their inward and naturall substances as al Philosophie testifieth wherefore hence to gather that we denie both the Father and the Sonne to be God doth sauour I will not say of a silly wit but of a froward will peeuishly bent to cauill and calumniate Secondly Master PERKINS chargeth vs with disgrading Christ of his offices saying that for one Iesus Christ the onely King lawe-giuer and head of the Church they joyne vnto him the Pope not only as a Vicar but as a fellowe in that they giue vnto him power to make lawes binding in conscience to resolue and determine infallibly the sence of holy Scripture properly to pardon sinne to haue authority ouer the whole earth and a part of hell to depose Kinges to whome vnder Christ euery soule is subject to absolue subjects from the oath of alleageance c. Answere Here is a bed-role of many superfluous speeches for not one of all these thinges if we admitte them all to be true doth conuince vs to haue disgraded Christ of his offices which are these to appease Gods wrath towardes vs to pay the ransome for our sinnes to conquer the Diuell to open the Kingdome of heauen to be supreme head of both men and Angels and such like He may without any derogation vnto these his soueraigne prerogatiues giue vnto his seruants first power to make lawes that binde in conscience as he hath done to all Princes which the Protestantes themselues dare not denie then to determine vnfallibly of the true sence of holy Scripture which the Apostles could doe as all men confesse and yet doe not make them Christes fellowes but his humble seruants to whome also he gaue power properly to pardon sinnes Luc. 24. Ioan. 20. Mar. 16. Matt. 28. Whose sinnes you pardon on earth sbal be pardoned in heauen and finally to them he also gaue authority ouer the whole earth goe into the vniuersall world Ouer part of hell no Pope hath authority and when he doth good to any soule in Purgatory it is per modum suffragij as a suppliant and entreater not as a commander Whether he hath any authority ouer Princes their subjects in temporall affaires it is questioned by some yet no man not wilfully blinde can doubt but that Christ might haue giuen him that authority without disgrading himselfe of it as he hath imparted to him and to others also faculties of greater authority and vertue reseruing neuerthelesse the same vnto himselfe in a much more excellent manner As a King by substituting a viceroy or some such like deputie to whome he giues most large commission doth not thereby disgrade himselfe of his Kingly authority as all the world knowes no more did our Sauiour Christ Iesus bereaue himselfe of his power or dignity when he bestowed some part thereof vpon his substitutes He goes on multiplying a number of idle wordes to small purpose as that we for one Christ the only reall Priest of the newe Testament joyne many secondary Priestes vnto him which offer Christ daylie in the Masse We indeede hold the Apostles to haue beene made by Christ not imputatiue or phantasticall but reall and true Priestes And by Christ his owne order and commandement to haue offered his body and bloud daylie in the sacrifice of the Masse what of that see that question Furthermore he saith for one Iesus the all sufficient mediatour of intercession they haue added many fellowes to him to make request for vs namely as many Saintes as be in the Popes Kalendar yea and many more too For we hold that any of the faithfull yet liuing may be also requested to pray for vs neither shall he in hast be able to proue that Christ only maketh intercession for vs though he be the only mediatour that hath redeemed vs. Lastly saith M. PERKINS for the only merittes of Christ in whome alone the Father is well pleased what was he not well pleased with his Apostles they haue deuised a treasury of the Churches contayning besides the merittes of Christ the ouerplus of the merittes of Saints to be dispensed to men at the discretion of the Pope and thus we see that Christ and his merittes be abolished Answere The good man is somewhat mistaken for we hold not any ouerplus of merits in Saints the which we acknowledge to be by God fully rewarded in heauen but we affirme that some Saints and blessed Martirs haue suffered more paynes in this life then the temporall punishment of their owne sinnes â—eserued Iob 6. v. â— Who therefore might truely say with that just man Iob would to God my sinnes whereby I haue deserued wrath were weighed with the calamitie that I suffer euen as the sandes of the Sea this should be the heauyer Nowe parte of these sufferinges of Gods Saints as being needelesse for their owne satisfaction are reserued in the Churches store-house and may by the high steward of the Church to whome the dispensation of her treasure belongeth he communicated to others as very reason teacheth vs for who is fitter to dispose of any mans goodes then he to whome the charge thereof is giuen by his testament And thus I hope euery reasonable man doth finde vs Catholikes to be farre of from transforming Christ into an Idoll of mans conceite as Master PERKINS dreameth only we see a misconceited man labouring in vaine to deface Christes benefites toward vs to calumniate his chiefe seruantes and to skirmish more against his owne phantasies then against any doctrine of ours He layeth lastly a third kinde of Atheisme against vs for worshipping of God not with such respect as is sutable to his nature For saith he our worshippe is meere will worshippe for the most part without any allowance or commandement of God as Durand in his Rationale in effect acknowledgeth it is a carnall seruice standing of innumerable bodylie rites and ceremonies borrowed partly from the Iewes and partly from the Heathens it is deuided betweene God and some of his creatures in that they are worshipped both with one kinde of worshippe let them paint it as they can c. Answere Ipse dixit Pythagoras hath pronounced his sentence yet you neede not beleeue him vnlesse you list because he fableth so formally doth Durand acknowledge that all our worship is meere will worship and that it hath no allowance of God O egregious and impudent deceiuer For that learned deuout Author Durand doth nothing else in all that booke then set out the Majesty and declared the meaning of the true worship of God vsed daylie in our seruice throughout the whole yeare And therefore doth entitle
Fathers plaine sentences for the Sacrifice of the Masse to make his poore abused followers beleeue that vvhen they approue the Sacrifice of the Masse as they doe very often and that in most expresse tearmes as you shal heare hereafter that then they meane some other matter Much more sincerely had he dealt if he had confessed with his owne Rabbins that it was the common beleefe of the world receiued by the best Schoole-men That in the Masse a Sacrifice is offered to God for remission of sinnes as a Lib. 4. Instit ca. 18. §. 1. Caluin doth deliuer vvhich b De captiuit Babilon c. 1. Luther graunteth to be conformable vnto the saying of the ancient Fathers And one c Li. cont Carolostadianos Alberus a famous Lutheran speaketh it to the great glory of his Master Luther that he vvas the first since Christes time who openly inueighed against it this yet is more ingenious and plainer dealing to confesse the truth then with vaine colours to goe about to disguise it And that the indifferent reader may be vvell assured howe Luther an Apostata Friar could come vnto that high pitch of vnderstanding as to soare vnto that which none sithence Christes time neither Apostles nor other could reach vnto before him let him reade a speciall treatise of his owne Cocleus Vlenbergius Intituled of Masse in corners and of the consecration of Priestes which is extant in the sixt Tome of his workes set out in the German tongue and printed at Ienes as men skilfull in that language doe testifie In his workes in â—â—tin printed at Wittenburge of the older edition it is the seauenth Tome though somewhat corrected and abridged there I say the good fellowe confesseth that entring into a certaine conference and dispute with the Diuell about this Sacrifice of the Masse Luther then defending it and the Deuill very grauely arguing against it in fine the Master as it was likely ouercame his Disciple Luther and so setled him in that opinion against the Sacrifice of the Masse that he doubted not afterward to maintayne it as a principle point of the newe Gospell and is therein seconded by the vvhole band of Protestants This is no fable but a true history set downe in print by himselfe through Gods prouidence that all the vvorld may see from vvhat authority this their doctrine against the blessed Sacrifice of the Masse proceedeth And if they vvill beleeue it notwithstanding they knowe the Deuill to be the founder of it are they not then most vvorthy to be rejected of God and adjudged to him vvhose Disciples they make themselues vvittingly and of their owne free accord Nowe to the difference OVR DIFFERENCE M. PERKINS Page 207. THey make the Eucharist to bee a reall and externall Sacrifice offered vnto God holding that the Minister of it is a Priest properly in that he offereth Christes body and bloud to God really and properly vnder the formes of bread and wine we acknowledge no such Sacrifice for remission of sinne but only Christes on the Crosse once offered Here is the maine difference which is of such moment that their Church maintayning this can bee no Church at all for this pointe raseth the foundation to the very bottome vvhich he vvill proue by the reasons follovving if his ayme faile him not Obserue that in the lawe of Moyses there vvere three kinde of proper Sacrifices one called Holocaust or vvhole burnt offeringes the second an Host for sinne of vvhich there were also diuers sortes the third an Host of pacification Holocaustes vvere vvholy consumed by fire in recognizance and protestation of Gods Soueraigne dominion ouer vs Hostes for sinne vvere offered as the name improteth to appease Gods vvrath and to purge men from sinne Hostes of pacification or peace vvere to giue God thankes for benefits receiued and to sue for continuance and increase of them Nowe vve following the ancient Fathers doctrine doe hold the Sacrifice of the Masse to succeede all these sacrifices and to contayne the vertue and efficacy of all three to vvit it is offered both to acknowledge God to be the supreame Lord of heauen and earth and that all our good commeth from him as vvitnesseth this oblation of his deare Sonnes body who being the Lord of heauen and earth vvillingly suffered death to shewe his obedience to his Father Secondly it is offered to appease Gods vvrath justly kindled against vs sinners representing to him therein the merit of Christes passion to obtaine our pardon Thirdly it is offered to God to giue him thankes for all his graces bestowed vpon vs and by the vertue thereof to craue continuance and encrease of them These points of our doctrine being openly laide before the eyes of the world M. PER. seemeth to reproue only one peece of them to wit That the Sacrifice of the Masse is no true Sacrifice for remission of sinnes and not joyning issue with vs but vpon that branch only he may be thought to agree vvith vs in the other two to wit that it is a proper and perfect kinde of whole burnt offering and a Sacrifice of pacification at least he goeth not about to disproue the rest and therefore he had need to spit on his fingers as they say and to take better hold or else if that were graunted him which he endeauoureth to proue he is very farre from obtayning the Sacrifice of the Masse to be no true and proper kind of Sacrifice For it may well be an Holocaust or Host of pacification though it be not a Sacrifice for sinne But that all men may see howe confident we are in euery part and parcell of the Catholike doctrine we will joyne issue with him where he thinketh to haue the most aduantage against vs and will proue it to be also an Host for remission of sinnes and that aswel for the dead as for the liuing which is much more then M. PER. requireth and by the way I will demonstrate that this doctrine is so farre off from rasing the foundation of Christian religion that there can be no religion at all vvithout a true and proper kinde of Sacrifice and sacrificing Priestes But first I will confute M. PER. reasons to the contrary because he placeth them foremost Hebr. 9. v. 15.16 ca. 10. vers 10. The first reason The holy Ghost saith Christ offered himselfe but once therefore not often and thus there can be no reall offering of his body and bloud in the Sacrament of his supper the text is plaine True but your arguing out of it is somewhat vaine For after your owne opinion it is the Priest that doth offer the Sacrifice of Christes body in the Lordes supper and therefore though Christ offered it but once as the Apostle saith yet Priests appointed by him may offer it many times Doe yee perceiue howe easily your Achilles may be foiled the good-man not looking belike for this answere saith nothing to it but frameth another in
who delighteth not to cauill vpon wordes vnderstanding our meaning to be very farre off from attributing any iote of Gods honour vnto any Saint or any other thing whatsoeuer cannot be justly offended with our tearmes of religious worshippe giuen to Saintes when as he is before-hand giuen to vnderstand that we take religious to signifie not that which is proper to God but those religious gifts which be in godly men Hence also it followeth most perspicuously what intollerable wrong they doe vs that call vs Idolaters or say that we robbe God of his honour and giue it vnto Saintes For vve say and repeate it a thousand times ouer and ouer and declare it as plainely as can be that it is the most haynous crime in the vvorld to giue any such soueraigne honour as is due to God only vnto eyther Angels or Saintes to vvit to esteeme them to be infinitly mighty vvise or good or to bee the Creatours or supreame Gouernours of heauen and earth or briefly to be the authors of any supernaturall or naturall excellency or perfection These and such like pointes of Diuine honour we ascribe not to any creature but say that the Saintes are Gods creatures and seruants and doe receiue all that they eyther be or haue or Gods liberallity yet we hold it not to derogate any whit from the due honour we owe vnto God to yeeld such honour and worship vnto his Saints and seruants as he hath made them worthy of Nay rather we doe not a litle honour God himselfe when we worship Godly men for his diuine gifts bestowed vpon them and vvhen vvee thinke that because they haue faithfully serued him on earth they are nowe in heauen in high fauour with him and can sooner obtaine any reasonable suite of him then other mortall men vvho are subject to many infirmities Neyther doe wee diminish any thing at all Christ our Sauiours mediation by making the Saintes our intercessours For as shall bee hereafter declared at large we attribute no point of Christes mediation to them but only range and place the Saints intercession with the prayers of other good men liuing on earth and vvith our owne although in a different degree of perfection their 's being farre better then ours yet all are made in Christes name and are effectuall through the merits of his Passion But one may here object howe then doe Catholikes affirme and say that the Saints are their hope and refuge and howe can they desire them To haue mercy vpon them and to helpe them vvhich seeme to be thinges proper to God alone and to Christ our redeemer I answere first that these speeches in good sence haue beene vsed by most auncient learned and circumspect Authours and that by imitation of the holie Scriptures For holy Iob saith Haue mercy on me haue mercy on me Iob 19. 1. Thess 2. vers 18. Cap. 15. vers 30. 1. Cap. 9. vers 19. at least you my friendes And Saint Paul calleth the Thessalonians His hope his joy and crowne of glory and desireth the Romans to helpe him in their prayers and saith to the Corinthians that he became all thinges to all men that he might saue all vvith diuers such like So that no discreet man ought to condemne such speeches to the Saints if they bee vttered vvith a good meaning to vvit that they taking compassion of our frailty and misery doe by their gratious intercession helpe to procure our pardon and to obtayne at Gods bounteous handes through the merit of Christes passion all such heauenly graces as vve stand neede of Albeit as I haue sayed such tearmes haue been very vvell vsed in all antiquity yet in these our captious dayes I could vvish that Catholikes vvould vse them very sparingly for feare of scandalizing the poore deceaued Protestants Obserue lastly that by the outward manner and externall shewe of worshippe it cannot be sufficiently discerned whether it be Diuine Religious or Ciuill for as we kneele to God so doe we also on our knee honour the King 1. Reg. 24. vers 10. and his Councell As Dauid did adore King Saul prostrate on the earth But the difference consisteth chiefly in the inward conceite and disposition of the minde and so whether we kneele or no if we prostrate our harts before God inclining it vnto him as to the Authour of all thinges infinitly perfect we doe him Godly honour So if we kneele to any Saints or before any picture of a Saint in honour of the Saint acknowledging in our harts the Saint to be a very holy creature indued with many great graces of God and dearely beloued of him we doe but duly worshippe the Saint as kneeling to the King and in our harts confessing him to be the supreame Gouernour vnder God of the temporall state of his Kingdome vve doe but our duties vnto our King To conclude it is not the outward fashion of worshippe that maketh it proper to God or Man when as kneeling to one may be also in dirision of him as when Pilates souldiers kneeled to Christ but the inward conceite and inclination of the judgement and hart And therefore they are very simple that reprehend Catholikes of Idolatry for kneeling before pictures when as they kneele not to the picture it selfe no more then Protestants kneele vnto that part of their seate or to the wall that is before them but they doe kneele to God as to their soueraigne Lord and to the Saint as to an holy personage whose prayer to God for them they humbly request Nowe to the maine point in controuersie M. PER. denyeth That any ciuill worshippe in bending of the knee or prostrating of the body is to be giuen to either Saints or Angels and much lesse any religious worshippe as namely inuocation signified by any bodily adoration for that saith he is the honour of God himselfe by what name soeuer you call it And this is all he saith for ought I can see touching the worshipping of Saints We on the other side say that vve may both bend the knee and prostrate the body to any Angell or Saint in heauen and with a religious inclination and obeysance of our harts worshippe them for their excellent supernaturall gifts and that this kinde of worshippe is much inferior vnto the honour proper to God yea that it is infinitly lesse then that as hath beene already declared M. PER. hath one only shadowe of a reason why we must not yeeld any ciuill worship vnto the Saints Because saith he they be absent from vs and we vse not to worshippe men that be absent ergo Which is most easily confuted and that two wayes First if we say as vve vvill proue afterward that though they be farre distant from vs in place yet they see and knowe all the honour that vve present to them and so are they morally present and as so present may be vvorshipped Secondly that we may truly honor them who are absent corporally by lifting vp our
we will demand at his handes We call vpon Christ for saluation and therefore must we first beleeue him to be a Sauiour we call vpon Saints to pray for vs therefore must vve before hand beleeue that they both can and will pray for vs and that they are able through the fauour and loue that God beareth them to entreate much at Gods handes see howe vve must beleeue in them vpon whom we call for helpe And the very phrase of beleeuing in Saints is vsed by the same a Ad Philemon v. 5. Apostle not vnlike that of the old Testament b Exod. 14 vers 31. The people beleeued God and his seruant Moyses M. PERKINS goeth on patching vp his former argument with that which hath small coherence with it to wit That we haue no promise to be heard but for Christs sake Admit it vvere so it maketh nothing against prayer to Saints for they pray for vs in Christs name and are heard for Christs sake Finally M. PERKINS fableth that we giue for our only warrant of inuocation of Saints miracles and reuelations and thereunto answereth that to judge of any point of doctrine by miracles three thinges must concurre First the doctrine of faith and piety to be confirmed Secondly prayer to God that some thing may be done for the ratifying of the said doctrine Thirdly the manifest edification of the Church by the two former What of all this good Sir Marry thinke what you vvill for he inferreth nothing I will therefore apply all this to the purpose and say first That vvhen a miracle is graunted by God to confirme any point of doctrine in controuersie then euery man is as vvell bound to beleeue that point of doctrine as if it were plainely recorded in the holy Scripture for it hath God to witnesse who cannot deceiue Secondly that S. Bernard a most Godly man and one whose testimony M. PER. doth very often alleage did fulfill all those three worthy obseruations of M. PER. in working of miracles to confirme inuocation of Saints and therefore it is to be beleeued of all men euen by M. PERKINS owne sentence For first he propounded inuocation of Saints Lib. 3. vitae cap. 5. as a doctrine of faith and great piety in the Prouince of Tolouse in France where it was by our Protestants Grandsiers the Albigenses denyed Secondly he blessed some certaine loafes of bread that were presented to him and prayed to God that if inuocation to Saints were pure doctrine of faith that then whosoeuer should taste of that bread might be cured of what disease soeuer he was sicke A Bishop that stoode by added yea Sir if they receiue them with good faith they shall be healed S. Bernard replyed I said not so but whosoeuer shall truly taste of them shall be cured that they may knowe vs to haue the truth and to be the true messengers of God And as it there followeth An huge multitude of sicke and diseased persons tasting of that bread recouered perfect health If we had no other argument then this it alone were sufficient to perswade any Christian that to pray vnto Saints is the true doctrine of Christ which God so expresly would confirme by miracles and testifie so euidently What would he beleeue that will not beleeue this But saith M. PER. miracles be to be done for Infidels and not for them who beleeue True it is and therefore was this miracle done to conuert or to confound such Infidels as our Protestants are vvho will not beleeue the inuocation of Saints Lastly saith he our faith is not to be confirmed by reuelations Luc. 16. vers 29. and apparitions of dead men but by the writings of the Apostles and Prophets What is this either to miracles or inuocation of Saints neither is that which he saith to be drawne out of those wordes of that parable as I will proue when it shall be neede Note by the way that twice in this question he himselfe citeth that parable of Diues and Lazarus for proofe of doctrine vvhich he afterward denyeth to be lawfull for vs to doe What our other groundes be for inuocation of Saints shall be declared in our arguments following M. PERKINS fift reason To pray to Saints departed to bowe the knee to them while they are in heauen is to asscribe vnto them that which is proper to God namely to knowe the hart and inward desires thereof and to knowe the speeches and behauiours of all men in all places on the earth at all times Answere This man doth too too broadly enlarge his lies for neither doe all men at once much lesse at all times pray vnto euery or any one of the Saints but suppose they did yet to heare all their prayers togither is nothing so much as to see that which euery Saint doth see in heauen to wit the one only substance of God in three persons for what are all the cogitations of men compared vnto the immense and incomprehensible nature of God not so much as the point of a pinne to the whole globe of the earth and yet euery Saint in heauen doth clearely behold God therefore much more able are they to heare and see all thinges that belong vnto men And as the learned Diuines knowe the man-hood of our Sauiour Christ doth see knowe and comprehend all the deedes wordes and thoughts of all men that haue liued since the beginning of the world vnto the end because it belongeth vnto him who is judge of all to knowe all aswell to reward the good as to punish the euill and yet doth no Diuine say that the man-hood of Christ is God or equall vnto God in knowledge Nowe the Saints in heauen doe not see the secretes of our harts in our harts but being present to the face of God doe behold in it as it were in a most cleare glasse all that is pleaseth the goodnesse of God to reueale vnto them and it is incident and belonging necessarily vnto their most happy estate to haue graunted to them all that in reason they can demande otherwise they were not so happy as they might be Now what good nature would not be glad to pleasure his owne fellowe members and deare friendes specially such as craue so much at his handes vvherefore it cannot be denyed of any considerate man but that God who satisfieth al their just requests doth ordinarily reueale vnto his dearely beloued Saints all the prayers that be made vnto them Surely S. Augustine in most expresse tearmes declareth De cura pro mort cap. 15. 16. That God can giue such power vnto his Saints and Martirs that they may be present in spirit at euery place throughout the world where there is any memory of them or prayer made vnto them He will not take vpon him to define whether they be actually there present or no or whether by the ministery of Angels they be relieued that seeke helpe by the intercession of Martirs but maketh no
question but that they heare all prayers made by vvhosoeuer to them and obtayne very many of their requests And as S. Gregory saith What doe they not see Lib. 12. Moral cap. 13. who see him that seeth all thinges yea contayneth all thinges within himselfe Yet M. PER. blusheth not to say that it is but a forgery of mans braine to imagine that the God-head is such a cleare glasse representing all thinges because it should then followe that the Angels who behold Gods face should be ignorant of nothing but the Angels haue learned some thinges of the Church as S. Paul witnesseth therefore they see not all thinges in God To this we answere that in God all thinges are represented and shine more brightly then in their owne naturall places yet doth not God communicate and reueale all thinges vnto euery body there present but his diuine nature in three persons Christ God and Man with all other naturall and ordinary thinges from the cope of heauen to the center of the earth are seene of euery Cytizen of heauen though with a different degree of clearenes but of Gods counsels concerning the gouernement of the world so much is only knowne vnto either Angell or Men as appertayneth vnto their state and that when it belongeth vnto them therefore the Angels might well not knowe many thinges belonging to the gouernement of the Church vntill they sawe it accomplished and therefore might be said to haue learned some such thing of the Church But as we haue said before it properly appertayneth vnto the state of Saints in heauenly blisse to knowe their friendes reasonable requests made vnto them or else their conditions should not be so perfect but that they might in equity require the bettering of it and consequently they could not be so throughly contented as their estate of perfect felicity in heauen doth demande and thus much of M. PER. reasons To which I will here adde one argument commonly vsed by the Protestants though M. PER. for the weakenesse of it perhaps thought best to omit it it is taken ab authoritate negatiuè which Schollers knowe to be naught worth Math. 11. vers 28. Christ saith come yee vnto me all yee that labour and be burdened and I will refresh you he saith not goe to the Saints but come to me I answere neither doth he say doe not goe to the Saints and therefore here is nothing against vs. We goe to Christ for remission of our sinnes which lye more heauy then a talent of lead vpon our backes and through our redeemers merits doe we craue pardon of them but to moue more effectually this our redeemer and God his father to haue pitty vpon vs we humbly desire the Saints his best beloued seruants to speake a good vvord in our behalfe acknowledging our selues vnvvorthy to obtayne any thing at Gods handes through our owne vngratefull wickednes Now that our Sauiour Christ IESVS doth very well like and approue the mediation of others euen to himselfe may be gathered out of very many euident texts of holy Scripture Math. 8. vers 13. for he at the intercession of the Centurion cured his seruant and * Math. 9 vers 2. seing the faith of them that brought a man sicke of the palsey before him he healed the sicke man and a Luc. 4. vers 38. at his disciples request cured S. Peters mother in lawe And vvhen the vvoman of Chanaan sued vnto him for her daughter b Math. 15 vers 23. he answered her not a word before his disciples had besought him for her by which and many such like recorded in the Gospell euery man that is not wilfully blinde may well see that the intercession of others for vs doth much preuaile euen with our soueraigne intercessor and mediator Christ IESVS himselfe nowe to his authorities Lib. 3. cōt Parmenia cap. 3. The first is out of S. Augustine Christian men commend each other in their prayers to God And who prayeth for all and for whome none prayeth he is the one and true mediatour I answere these wordes be rather for vs for approuing and confessing our Sauiour Christ to be the only mediatour of redemption as we haue already declared they teach that all Christians may commend themselues each to others prayers Nowe the Saints departed be Christians I trust as good as we or rather farre better therefor all other Christians may very well in S. Augustines judgement commend themselues vnto the Saints holy prayers because each one may commend himselfe to any others prayers Concerning the word Mediatour S. Augustine neuer attributeth it vnto any sauing only to our Sauiour taking it alwaies in the second signification aboue named to which three thinges are properly required according to S. Augustine first that he pray for all and that none pray for him which property M. PER. toucheth but misquoteth the place for it is in lib. 2. cap. 8. cont Parmenianum The second property and the most necessary of all is that he pay the full price and ransome of all our sinnes and that his redemption may in equall ballance counterpoise the grieuousnesse of our sinnes which is taken out of diuers places of Scripture The third which is the ground of al the rest is that the Mediatour be both God and Man that participating of both natures he may be as it vvere a naturall middle or meanes to reconcile the two Extreames and so as Man be able to suffer something to appease Gods wrath and as God to giue to that suffering of his man-hood infinite value making thereby Christs sufferinges more then sufficient to pay for the redemption of an hundred vvorldes if neede had beene And these proprieties gathered out of c Lib. 9. de ciuitate cap. 15. alibi S. Augustine and other Fathers will put downe M. PER. odde deuise of proprieties of a Mediatour all which make nothing against the intercession of Saints who be not in that sence to be called mediatours and yet cease not to pray for vs let vs then goe on M. PERKINS citeth secondly another sentence out of S. Augustine where he bringeth in our Sauiour saying Tract 22. in Iohan. Thou hast no whether to goe but to me thou hast no way to goe but by me Answere S. Augustine there alludeth vnto those vvordes of our Sauiour I am the way the truth and the life and saith that for life and truth vve haue no other way to seeke vnto but vnto Christ vvho according vnto his diuinity is truth and life vnto the vvorld And in this high degree of redemption and mediation he was the only way vnto his Father for neither the Gentiles by their morall vertues nor Iewes by the power of their law could without him leade them to God All this is very good doctrine but no whit more against praying to Saints then against commending of vs one to anothers prayers or vsing any other meanes of saluation as S. Augustine vpon
thereunto requested Wherefore saieth M. PERKINS secondly there is a great difference betweene requesting one to pray for vs and by inuocation to request them that are absent for this is a worshippe that is giuen to them and a power to heare and helpe all that call vpon them Reply First that by inuocation we may pray vnto men S. Augustine teacheth directly grounding himselfe vpon the expresse text of Scripture Locut in Gen. 200. Gen. 48. vers 15. where Iacob commandeth that his name and the name of his fore-fathers be inuocated vpon of the children of Israel And vvhat is inuocation in English but the calling vpon one vvhich is as lawfull as the praying vnto him That we doe them an honour and worship thereby I grant and say that the Saints being better then the liuing are better worthy of that worship then the liuing Further that we assigne them a power to heare them that be absent more then the liuing can doe it is no maruaile for the perfection of their heauenly state requireth that prerogatiue as I haue more then once declared But because this point of their knowledge breedeth the greatest doubt of praying vnto the Saints let S. Augustine a most juditious Doctor and one that was not partiall in that matter deliuering his sentence grounded also vpon holy Scripture be hearkened vnto and followed he treating of the happynesse of Saints in heauen hath these vvordes Lib. 22. de ciuit 29. If the Prophet Helizeus being absent in body did see his seruant Giësy receiuing the gifts which Naaman the Syrian gaue him c. how much more in that spirituall body shall Saints see all thinges not only if they shut their eyes but also from whence they be in body absent this he confirmeth by that sentence of the Apostle 1. Cor. 13. ver 9.10 We knowe in part and in part doe we prophesie but when that shall come which is perfect then shall that be made voide which is in part c. Hence thus reasoneth S. Augustine If the knowledge of this life in such as the Prophets and Apostles were be no more in comparison of the Saints knowledge in heauen then is a little childe compared to a man and this which is in part to that which is perfect then surely if Helizeus and other Prophets did see thinges done farre distant from them yea thinges that were to be done many hundred yeares after their times they being without doubt indued with this admirable knowledge from God howe much abundantly shall all they in heauen enjoy this gift when their bodies shall not hinder them yea they shall not neede bodylie eyes to see thinges absent but with the hart or spirit they shall be present to them 4. Reg. 5. vers 26. as Helizeus was who said was not my hart present when the man returned from his chariot to meete thee Can any thing be more euident or more soundly proued then that the Saints in heauen haue great preheminence aboue all that liued vpon the earth to see and knowe thinges absent and farre distant from them which the same father proueth also by most euident experience in the fifteenth and sixteenth Chapters of his booke intituled de cura pro mortuis agenda And that you may perceiue that that is not the opinion of S. Augustine alone I will joyne the testimonies of three or foure other Fathers with him S. Cyril Patriarke of Hierusalem saith Euen as S. Peter did question Ananias Catach 16 Act. 5. willing him to tell whether he had sold his ground for so much so did the Prophet Helizeus though he were not ignorant of it aske his seruant Giësy whether he had not receiued money of Naaman the Syrian for saith he nothing done euen in the darke is hidden from the Saints S. Basil writeth thus Let a Virgin first of all feare her owne conscience L. de Virginitate and if shee be neuer so solitary yet hath shee her Angell guardian present whose sight shee must not contemne specially when as they haue Angels as it were patterns of virginity but before all Angels let her respect and reuerence her spouse Christ who is present euery where And why did I speake of an Angell for shee hath an innumerable company of Angels present and with them the holy spirits or soules of the Fathers for there is none of these who doth not see all thinges euery where not truly beholding them with corporall eyes but by a spirituall sight pearcing vnto the knowledge of all thinges The same doth S. Athanasius that famous ancient Doctor resolue in his 32. question Quaest 32. See S. Augustine also lib. 20. of the Citty of God the 22. Chapter Teaching that the Saints in heauen doe knowe in particular what is done among the damned in hell And S. Hierome doth proue against Vigilantius that The Saints who followe the Lambe whither soeuer he goeth be excluded from no place and scorneth that dreaming Heretike for imagining that vnlesse the soules of the Martirs did lye houering about their shrines they could not heare their prayers that went thither to pray affirming him therefore to be a monster worthy to be banished into the vttermost câ—asts of the earth Encherines a most holy and learned Arch-bishop of Lyons all most 1200. yeares since confirmeth the same grounding his discourse vpon the same texts of Scripture that S. Augustine did saying If the Prophet Helizeus absent in body did see his seruant Giësy taking gifts howe much more shall Saints in that spirituall body see all thinges not only if they shut their eyes but also from whence they are in body absent For then shall be that perfection of which the Apostle speaketh in part we knowe and in part doe we prophesie 1. Cor. 13. but when that shall come which is perfect it shall be voyded which is in part therefore when that shall come which is perfect and this corruptible body shall no longer cumber the soule but it shall haue a glorious body which shall nothing hinder it shall the Saints then neede the helpe of bodylie eyes to see such thinges which Helizeus absent needed not to behold his seruant The testimonies of so many vvorthy Fathers will I hope suffice to perswade any reasonable man that the Saints in heauen doe very well heare our prayers To these I will joyne that which M. PER. maketh our second objection because it doth fortifie the same Luc. 16. vers 24. Abraham not then in possession of heauenly knowledge after our doctrine but in heauen as the Protestants thinke did heare Diues from hell vvhich is further off from heauen then the face of the earth which we inhabite and therefore more easily might he haue heard any liuing body praying vnto him then he did that rich glutton out of hell M. PERKINS answereth That this is a parable and out of a parable nothing can be gathered but that which is agreable vnto the intent
thereof Reply Why doth he then twice in this very question gather out of it first that Abraham was in heauen then that faith is not to be confirmed by apparitions of dead men vvhich are not the principall intent and scope of it but we must giue our newe Masters leaue both to affirme a thing when it seemeth to make for them and after to denie the same flatly when it beareth against them Lib. 2. in IouinianuÌ„ de cura pro mort cap. 14. lib. 4. dialog c. 29. We then say with S. Ambrose vpon that place vvith S. Hierome with S. Augustine and with S. Gregory the foure principall Doctors of the Latin Church that the story of Diues and Lazarus is a true hystoricall narration and not a parable of that which neuer was as by the proper names of Abraham and Lazarus and other circumstances they gather And vvhereas M. PER. objecteth against it That then it may be collected out of it that wicked men in hell haue compassion and loue to their bretheren on earth and zeale to Gods glory because Diues seemeth so to haue had I answere that there is no appearance of any zeale of Gods glory in Diues only he desired that some might goe out of that place of torment to aduertise his bretheren of it that they came not to him thither which was not out of any loue neither that he bare to his bretheren but for feare of his owne further torments if they came thither after him because he had giuen them euill example and encouragement to doe euill and perhaps euill counsell vvhen he liued vvith them and therefore was by their condemnation to receiue increase of his owne paynes so that his intreaty for them proceeded only out of the loue of himselfe and from the feare of more grieuous torments Nowe it being certayne that Abraham in heauen according to the Protestants opinion could heare Diues in hel much more easily can the Saints in heauen heare our prayers or any mans that dwelleth on earth Nowe after our doctrine who hold Abraham then to haue beene in Lymbo thus the argument must be framed If Abraham not yet indued with that perfect knowledge which the Saints in heauen haue could neuerthelesse heare Diues in hell betweene whome and himselfe there was magnum Chaos Ibid. 26. as the text hath a huge deepe darkenesse and great distance with much facility can the Saints who excell him being then in Lymbo in knowledge see and heare men liuing on the earth Our fift argument the Saints in heauen doe present vnto God the prayers of holy men liuing vpon the earth therefore they knowe the same prayers well in particular and embrace and recommend them to the diuine Majestie The consequent is manifest because no man can offer vp by word of mouth a petition if he knowe not what it is neither will any vvise-man such as the Saints be speake for he knoweth not whome nor what wherefore if the Saints doe present our prayers to God they doe knowe them in particular The antecedent is set downe in expresse tearmes in the word of God The 24. Seniours who sate about the throne of God fell before the Lambe hauing euery one harpes and golden vials ful of odours Apoc. 5. vers 8. which are the prayers of Saints M. PER. saith that these were their owne prayers and not other mens but vvithout alleadging either authority or reason We proue by the text it selfe that it must be vnderstoode of other mens prayers and not their owne because otherwise in due construction it should haue beene said Which are their owne praiers but the text saying That the odour of their vials were the prayers of Saints it distinguisheth plainely those Saints from themselues vvhich also the learned interpreters on that place Primasius and the Greeke schoole with Oecumenius doth confirme and testifie The former arguments were to proue that the Saints doe heare our prayers now the sixt reason shall be to meete with that out-cry of our aduersaries that forsooth vve robbe God of his honour and giue it to Saints when we pray vnto them thus God is more honoured by our worshipping and praying vnto Saints departed then if we did no worship vnto them nor prayed not vnto them at all but went immediately to God without their helpe therefore if it were for nothing else but for the greater honor of God we ought to worship Saints and to pray vnto them I proue the former proposition thus First we worship the Saints only for the supernaturall gifts vvhich God hath bestowed vpon them which must needes redound vnto the honour of the giuer as when I honour any of the kings officers it being principally because he is the kings officer the King himselfe is together and more principally honored and Christ saith expresly that hee that despiseth one of his seruants Luc. 10. vers 16. despiseth Christ himselfe Whence it followeth that he who respecteth and honoureth one of his seruants especially because he is his seruant doth together and in deed more principally honour Christ he and his graces being the very cause why vve respect and vvorshippe the other Further vvhen many and those of the vvorthyest sort doe become humble suitors vnto God for any one of vs much more honour is done vnto God through the dignity of their persons then if one meane silly sinner did sue to him alone For it is more honourable and magnificall to doe a pleasure at the instance and request of many vvorthy personages then where one poore worme alone doth sue for it yea and much more excellent thankes is rendred vnto God by the number and dignity of the suitors when their petition is graunted them This argument which is euident reason is grounded also vpon S. Pauls authority who requesteth the Christians of Corinth to helpe him in their prayers 2. Cor. 1. vers 11. That saith he by many mens persons thankes for the gift which is in vs may be giuen by many in our behalfe Seeing then that by our praying vnto the Saints they are drawne in to become suitors vvith vs and for vs and consequently obtayning their suite they stand aswell bound to render thankes to God therefore as we doe It followeth thereupon most euidently that God is by our praying to his Saints both more honored when such worthy persons sue vnto him for vs and also better thanked for that we doe obtaine by their intercession Now let vs close vp this question with the testimony of some of the moâ—â— ancient famous and best learned Doctors of both the Greeke and Latin Church Origen who liued not much aboue 200. yeares after Christ prayeth vnto that blessed paterne of patience Iob Lib. 2. in Iob. thus O happy Iob nowe liuing for euer with God and remayning a conquerour in the sight of our Lord and King pray for vs wreatches that the wonderfull mercy of God may also defend vs in all tribulations and deliuer
the chiefest Bishops and Doctors aswell for their Godlynesse of life as for their knowledge in holy Scriptures who were also chosen by the holy Ghost to gouerne instruct and teach the principal Churches in both Europe Africke and Asia and that in or about the most flourishing state thereof for all of them sauing S. Gregory the great and venerable Bede liued within 400. and some within 200. yeares of Christ Whither I say these most sound testimonies of so many sacred and worthy personages be not sufficient to perswade any reasonableman that praying to the Saints in heauen is both agreable to Gods vvord which no man in these dayes vnderstandeth halfe so well as the worst of any of them did and also very profitable for vs. Yet for the further assurance of this important matter I wil adde one miracle which I touched before wrought in confirmation of it so that he that will not beleeue this shall be conuinced not to beleeue God himselfe witnessing of it In the coasts of Thelousae in France Ex lib. 3. vitae S. Bernardi cap. 5. about 400. yeares past one Henry an Apostata and wicked fellowe beganne to cry out against praying for the dead and praying to Saints and pilgrimages and some other points of the Catholike doctrine the fame of S. Bernards holynesse and learning being then very great he was sent for by the Popes Legate to come thither to stay the people from following that lewde companion who on a day after he had preached at a towne called Sarlate blessed some loaues of bread and said This shall be a certayne proofe that our doctrine is true and theirs false if those that be sicke by tasting of this holy bread be cured of their diseases There stood by among others the Bishop of Charters who fearing what might followe added if they taste of it with faith Nay said the holy Father Barnard nothing doubting of Gods power I say not so but he that shall taste of it shall be truly cured that they may knowe vs to be true men and the true messengers of God then a great multitude tasting of it were according to his word perfectly healed of what disease soeuer they had What can be more euident or better assured then that praying to Saints is the truth of God seing that it pleased God to confirme it in such sort by the miraculous curing of so many people M. PERKINS for an vpshot saith that he finally dissenteth from the Catholikes because they are not content to pray to Saints but say further that God through their merits in heauen doth bestowe many benefits vpon vs on earth I would he agreed with vs in the two former points we should quickly be at accord in this for the good-man is fouly mistaken if he thinke that vve affirme the Saints after they be come to heauen to merit a newe there for we hold that none after their death can merit any more but doe then receiue according vnto their former merits either saluation or damnation but we neuerthelesse say that God in respect of their former merits gotten in this life doth for their sakes bestowe many benefits vpon vs and this doth M. PER. himselfe confirme in plaine wordes In this question when he graunteth pressed thereto by the euidence of Gods word that men vpon earth haue helpe and benefit by the faith and piety which the Saints departed shewed when they were in this life for saith he further God shewed mercy on them that keepe his commandements to a thousand generations True it is that this their faith and piety he would not haue to be called merits but vve with that most honourable Father S. Ambrose doe say Apud Deum Lib. 5. super LucaÌ„ seruus interueniendi meritum jus habet impetrandi with God a seruant of his hath both the merit to be an intercessour and the right to obtayne his suite see more of merits in that question Here M. PER. addeth against himselfe That the Saints in heauen haue receiued the full reward of all their merits and therefore there is nothing further that they can merit Here we haue first that the Saints had merits which he was wont to deny flatly againe how doth God hauing fully rewarded their former faith and piety at their entrance into heauen afterward for their sakes shew mercy to thousands which he confesseth himselfe wherefore he is aswell bound to answere this as we are it bearing as strongly against his owne doctrine as it doth against ours To saue him a labour I answere in a word that it is one part of the reward of a faithful seruant to be alwayes after not deseruing the contrary in his Masters fauour and so gratious with him that he may intreate any reasonable matâ—â—r at his handes so are the Saints vvith God vvho can neuer be wearyed with their suites so long as they all doe but tend vnto his owne honour and the saluation of his poore creatures and as we both agreed vpon before Their faith piety and charity whiles they liued did and doth still moue and cause God to shewe mercy vnto thousands vpon earth for their sakes though their merits were before most abundantly rewarded let this suffice for this question OF IMPLICITE OR INFOLDED FAITH M. PERKINS Page 266. THis question is handled for two causes as he saith pag. 274. first to rectifie the conscience of the weaker sort of his disciples secondly to rectifie their Catechismes which doe as he censureth require too full an assurance of saluation in all men It being then for the instruction of his ovvne deceiued flocke and not much appertayning to vs I will post it ouer lightly He teacheth a twofold implicity of faith first that faithfull men may be ignorant at the beginning of many articles of faith and learne them afterwardes It was so in deede in Christes time because he taught them not all a once but since the establishment of the Gospell it is necessary that euery one beleeue all the articles of the Apostles Creede the true doctrine of the Sacraments and such other necessary heades of the Christian religion other points of faith may be learned in time according vnto the capacity of the persons The second fold of his faith is that many of his deceiued disciples haue not at their conuersion and in time of temptation a full assurance of their saluation which notwithstanding will serue the turne then if they desire to haue a full assurance and labour afterward to attayne vnto it which he speaketh to the comfort of their consciences that cannot perswade themselues so assuredly that their sinnes are pardoned them This presumptious doctrine of full assurance of saluation I haue in a seueral question before confuted therefore I say only here that no Christian is bound to haue any such absolute assurance of his owne saluation but that he must according to the Apostles rule worke his saluation with trembling and feare Ad Philip. 2.
power of their free will helped by the holy Ghost 2. Tim. 2. vers 15. whereas Paul ascribeth it wholy vnto God prouing if God at any time will giue them repentance c. Answere Of this point hath beene spoken in the questions of Freevvill and of Iustification and here M. PERKINS answereth and confuteth himselfe sufficiently when he maketh as a passione repentance by which God turneth our hartes to him so an actiue vvhereby a man first moued by God turneth himselfe to God so that by his owne doctrine the free-will of man helped by the holy Ghost concurreth to the first act of repentance And where he saith that the sinner was before dead and therefore could not moue any part towardes repentance we answere that the grace of God raysing him to repentance doth quicken him and enable him to doe that good worke The second abuse of mistaking of penance for the correction only of notorious offenders is a fable The third abuse saith M. PERKINS is that we make repentance not only a vertue but also a Sacrament whereas for a thousand yeares after Christ it was not reckoned among the Sacraments Yea it seemeth that Lumbard was one of the first that called it a Sacrament and the Schoole-men after him disputed of the matter and forme of this Sacrament not able any of them certainely to define what should be the outward element of it Answere I am sorry to see the man so carelesse of his credit what doe schoole-men doubt of this Sacrament it selfe or of either matter or forme of it or are they not yet agreed what should be the outward element or visible signe of it He needeth not feare to auouch any thing that wil not blush at such a palpable vntruth Sess 14. 3. for not only the Councell of Trent but long before it the Councel of Florence in the instruction of the Armenians doth teach the actes of the Penitent to wit contrition and confession to be the element or materiall part of it and the absolution of the Priest the formall The same aboue three hundred yeares past taught the Prince of schoole-men S. Thomas of Aquine Richard Durand and diuers others vpon the fourth of the sentences the fourtenth distinction and now is the common opinion of al men so that this was a lie in graine No more truth hath the former part of his wordes that Repentance for a thousand yeares after Christ was not reckoned among the Sacraments For Victor Cartennensis who liued a thousand yeares past doth in expresse tearmes proue that we must make much of the Sacrament of Penance Lib. de PoeniteÌ„tia cap. 20. and most of the auncient Doctors doe reckon and couple Penance with the Sacrament of Baptisme or with the Sacrament of the Altar To beginne with the latter that we may ascend vpward Victor Vticensis bringeth in the people speaking thus to the Priests which were going into banishment Vnto whome wil yee leaue vs poore wreatches Lib. 2. de persecut VaÌ„dalica whiles yee goe vnto your crownes who shall baptize these little ones in the fountaine of euerlasting water Who shall bestowe vpon vs the gift of Penance and by the fauour of reconciliation loose and vntie vs bounden in the bandes of sinne because to you it was said Whatsoeuer you loose vpon earth shall be loosed in heauen Is not Penance here joyned with Baptisme the very like hath S. Augustine vvhere he first sheweth vvhat recourse in times of danger is wont to be made to the Church Sâ—â—e crauing to be baptised other to be reconciled and to doe Penance Epist 180 ad Honor. euery one of them seeking comfort and the administration of the Sacraments where he not only reckoneth reconciliation and Penance with Baptisme but saith that they are Sacraments for vvhen the people seeketh after them he saith That they seeke after the administration of Sacraments And a little after If the Ministers or Priestes be present some are baptised some be reconciled none are defrauded of the communion of our Lordes body S. Hierome Let him be redeemed by the bloud of our Sauiour L. 1. cont Pelag. Lib. 1. de PoeniteÌ„tia cap. 7. eyther in the house of Baptisme or in Penance that doth imitate the grace of baptisme S. Ambrose speaking against the Nouatians saith Why doe yee baptize if sinnes may not be pardoned by a man for in baptisme there is remission of all sinnes neyther is it any matter whether Priestes by Penance or by Baptisme doe chalenge this right to be giuen vnto them for it is the same in both of the mysteries So man remitteth sinnes aswell in the mysterie or Sacrament of Penance as in Baptisme and the like vertue is in both by S. Ambrose judgement there the one is a Sacrament as vvell as the other And yet more then a 100. yeares before him Tertullian saith Lib. dâ— PoeniteÌ„tia That God fore-seeing the poyson and infection of sinne and hauing shut vp the gate of pardon and bolted the doore of baptisme hath yet suffered something else to lie open for he hath in the porch or portall placed the second penance that may be opened to them that knocke where he testifieth the second Penance that is Penance after Baptisme to be appointed of God to take away sinne after baptisme as baptisme did that vvhich was before it so that many worthy auncient Fathers doe reckon and account penance or repentance as he calleth it among the Sacraments of the Church and so doe most manifestly confute his shamelesse assertion But because I desire here at once to dispatch this matter I will proue that the Father of al Fathers that is Christ IESVS himselfe hath instituted and deliuered vnto vs this Sacrament of Penance viz. When breathing vpon his Disciples Ioh. 20. vers 23. he bid them receiue the holy Ghost and said that whose sinnes soeuer they remitted in earth should be remitted in heauen Whence we proue that as there should be sinners in the Church so men indued with power to absolue them from their sinne and because they are not to absolue any that desire not be absolued the party must in humble sort request absolution and declare from vvhat sinnes he desireth to be absolued for what wise man will absolue one from he cannot tell what and not knowing vvhether any restitution be to be made or no Wherefore the party humbly confessing his fault and the Priest absoluing of him in a religious manner thereby to magnifie God by the due dispensation of his gifts bestowed on men there must needes be a visible signe of grace of justification vvhich is at the same time conferred so that euen after the defâ—â—â—tion of the Protestants it is a true Sacrament for there is a religious ceremony instituted by Christ that hath a promise of justifying grace annexed to it And consequently so wide is that from truth that vvithin a thousand yeares after Christ repentance was not accounted
a Sacrament that euen in Christes owne dayes and by himselfe it was instituted a Sacrament M. PERKINS objecteth for vs It will be said that remissions of sinnes and life euerlasting are promised to repentance and answereth That it is not to the worke of repentance but to the person which repenteth and that not for his works of repentance but for the merits of Christ applyed vnto him by faith Reply When there is no mention made of faith but only of repentance to attribute all to faith and nothing to repentance is a very extrauagant glosse specially he doing it of his owne authority without warrant eyther of reason or of any authour and thus much of the abuses forsooth of repentance in generall Nowe to the particular about Contrition Confession and Satisfaction The first abuse concerning contrition is that the Catholikes teach that it must be sufficient and perfect they vse to helpe the matter by a distinction c. O remarkeable abuse that Catholikes vvould haue contrition to be sufficient and perfect If vve vvould haue had it imperfect and not fit to serue the turne then loe we had hitte the nayle on the head what dotage is this vve say briefly concerning sorrowe for our sinnes past first that it ought to be the greatest that we can haue for nothing is vvorthy to be so vehemently lamented as that vve haue deadly offended our creatour and redeemer and are fallen from his grace into the slauery of our most deadly enemy the Deuill so that for this as for the greatest euill that could be fall vs we are to be most sorrowfull And this highest degree of sorrowe is requisite in contritio◠vvhen thereby alone vve doe recouer the grace of God but vvhen Contrition is joyned vvith Confession and is made a part of the Sacrament then loe though it vvere not so great before as is otherwise requisite it receiueth by vertue of participating with Christes grace in that Sacrament the full measure of sorrowe and so is made vp sufficient and perfect vvhich M. PER calleth the first abuse of Contrition but goeth not about to disproue it The second as he saith is that we ascribe to Contrition the merit of congruity Before he sticked not to say that vve made repentance the meritorious cause of remission of sinnes vvhich vvas a loude lie because vve teach that no man can merit remission of his sinnes for no man can merit ought at Gods handes vnlesse he first be in his grace and fauour vvhich no sinner is vvherefore we hold only that repentance as faith hope and a purpose of amendment be only good dispositions making the man fit and apt to receiue the grace of justification vvhich God freely of his infinite mercy without any desert of ours bestoweth vpon vs only for Christes sake That apt disposition some men call merit of congruity vvherein is no desert of the grace giuen but only a man is made thereby more meete and better prepared to receiue such grace Nowe mans merits doe so vvell agree and stand vvith Christes merits that Christes order is that none comming to the age of discretion shall be partaker of his merits vnlesse he by his owne merits doe make himselfe capable of them as hath beene sufficiently proued before in the question of Merits The third abuse That they make imperfect contrition or attrition arising of the feare of hell to be good and profitable and to it they apply the saying of the Prophet The feare of God is the beginning of wisdome But saith he seruile feare of it selfe is the way to eternall destruction c. Reply He vnderstandeth not what we say we teach that feare of being punished in hell fire maketh euill men abstaine from sinning and beginneth to put them in minde of Gods justice towardes impenitent sinners vvherewith many being strooken vvith the horrour of that euerlasting torment are moued to flie vnto God for mercy and so that seruile feare becommeth profitable vnto them first in that it causeth them to abstaine from that vvickednesse vvhich they vvould otherwise haue committed and then being helped with Gods grace they beginne to turne vnto his mercy and so feare of Gods punishments becōmeth vnto them the beginning of wisdome Thus much in effect doth M. PER. himselfe allowe of and yet vvould seeme to confute it his judgement is so slender Nowe to the abuses concerning Confession The first abuse That we confesse our sinnes to God in an vnknowne language What is there any language vnknowne to God or doth he meane that the vnlearned make their confession in Latin which is impossible for a man that vnderstandeth not one Latin vvord He vvould say I gheste that some of them begin their generall confession in Latin but we speake here of euery mans confession in particular that general of the Churches ordinance is commanded only to be vsed of them that are skilfull in the Latin tongue all others may vse the English Withall saith he we require the ayde and intercession of dead men We beleeue the Saints to be liuing which if he doth not he blasphemeth Touching the intercession of Saints I haue treated before Nowe as we request the helpe of their prayers so doe we acknoweledge vnto them howe grieuously vve haue offended that they seing our humility and sorrowe for our sinnes may the more earnestly entreate for the remission of them But let vs come vnto the principall point in controuersie about this matter viz. That we haue corrupted Canonicall confession by turning it into a priuate auricular confession binding all men to confesse all their mortall sinnes with the circumstances that change the kinde of the sinne as farre as they can remember once euery yeare at the least and that to a Priest vnlesse it be in the case of extreame necessity but in the word of God there is no warrant for this confession nor in the writinges of orthodoxe antiquity for the space of many hundreth yeares after Christ as one of their owne side auoucheth and he quoteth in the margent a man of small credit among vs Beatus Rhenanus for his authour Well let vs see a little vvhat warrant we haue in holy Scriptures and in the auncient Doctors for confession of our faultes vnto a Priest First it is euidently collected out of these wordes of our Sauiour Receiue the holy Ghost Ioh. 20. vers 23. whose sinnes yee doe forgiue in earth they shall be forgiuen in heauen and whose sinnes yee doe retayne they shall be retayned For giuing his Apostles power to remit and forgiue men their sinnes his meaning vvas not that they should pardon them whether they would or would not or that they should absolue any other then such as vvere contrite and did humbly craue absolution neyther should they absolue them from they knewe not of what but that they should knowe vvhat howe many and howe grieuous their offences were that they might be put to worthy penance and receiue particular comfort and counsell
for the amendment of their liues or else they should be the most foolish judges that euer vvere appointed vpon earth Wherefore seing that the Apostles had authority to forgiue sinnes and vvere in discretion to admmister the same vnto penitent sinners it must needes followe necessarily that the penitent should confesse all his sinnes in particular vnto them and that authority was to continue in the Church for euer it being giuen to the Apostles for the due gouerning of the Church and to the comfort of al sinners which should neuer fayle to be vntill Christes last comming to judgement They to defeate all this discourse answere That Christ gaue not his Apostles authority to pardon any mans sinnes but only to declare that their sinnes were pardoned if with true repentance and faith they receiued the preaching of the Gospell This interpretation first is repugnant to the text vvhich in expresse tearmes hath Whose sinnes yee shall remit or pardon not vvhose sinnes yee shall declare to be remitted Secondly it hath that Whose sinnes yee shall forgiue they are forgiuen to wit euen then when they remit them and not that they were remitted before as he should haue said if he had giuen them authority only to declare them to be remitted Thirdly the metaphor of keyes giuen vnto them doth demonstrate that power was giuen them to absolue and not to declare only they were absolued because keyes are giuen to open or shut dores and not to signifie that eyther the dores are already open or shall be vpon condition Lastly the Ministers pronouncing of men absolued should be very rash and friuolous if they doe not truly absolue them For if he pronounce them absolutely to be absolued without good assurance of their faith repentance he should but lie and if he doe pronounce them absolued conditionally if they beleeue aright and be truly penitent then vvere his absolution in vaine for it depending vpon their faith and repentance and not vpon the Ministers pronouncing it bringeth no further assurance then they had before yea they themselues being of the faithfull could not be ignorant of so much before to wit that he was free from sinne and needed not his absolution Nowe that the Apostles then and Bishops and Priests their successours euer sithence did truly absolue men from their sinnes and were not like to cryers only proclaymers thereof see first S. Chrysostome who saith That such power was giuen here to men Lib. 3. de Sacerdot which God would neuer giue to Angels who yet had power to pronounce saluation to penitent sinners Secondly That Priestes haue such power of binding and loosing ouer the soules as Kinges haue ouer their subjects bodyes vvhich is truly to binde or to loose them and not only to declare them bound or loosed Thirdly he saith expresly That the Priestes among the Iewes had power to purge the leprosie or rather to try whether they were purged from it or no but it is graunted vnto our Priestes not only to discerne whether the body be purged from leprosie or no but playnely to purge our soules from the filth of sinne S. Ambrose in diuers places proueth directly against the Nouatians that Christ gaue power to Priestes to remit sinnes Lib. 1. de Poenitent c. 2. 7. The Nouatians denyed not but that one might preach the Gospell vnto such sinners that vvere relapsed and promise them pardon too if they repented but would not haue the Priests to reconcile them vnto the Church by the Sacrament of Penance denying that Priestes had any such power ouer such sinners but that they must leaue them to God alone vvhich the holy Doctor confuteth by these places of Scripture Math. 16. vers 19. cap. 18. vers 18. Ioh. 20. vers 23. Whatsoeuer yee forgiue in earth shall be forgiuen in heauen Epist ad Heliodor S. Hierome saith God forbidde that I should speake any euill of them who succeeding in the Apostolike degree doe with their sacred mouth make the body of Christ and by whome we are made Christians who hauing the keyes of the Kingdome of heauen doe in a certayne manner judge before the day of judgement Lib. 20. de ciuit c. 9. S. Augustine doth define in these wordes Whatsoeuer yee shall binde vpon earth shal be bound in heauen that authority is giuen vnto the rulers of the Church to judge in spirituall causes and not only to declare Hom. 62. in Euang. S. Gregory vpon these vvordes Whose sinnes you forgiue c. Behold saith he the Apostles are not only made secure of themselues but haue power giuen them to release other mens handes and doe obtayne a prerogatiue of the heauenly judgement that in Gods steede they may forgiue to some their sinnes and binde some others and truly the Bishops nowe doe hold the same place in the Church they receiue authority to binde and to loose c. By this you may see in part vvith what fore-head M. PERKINS affirmed that for a thousand yeares after Christ there was no mention of the Sacrament of Penance and more you shall see shortly if that first I shall note out of the Scripture it selfe both the acknowledgement of receite of that power to reconcile and absolue and the practise and commandement of confession S. Paul acknowledgeth and declareth 2. Cor. 5. vers 18. 20. that God had giuen vnto them the ministery of reconciliation and addeth that they be Gods Legates and therefore exhorteth them to be reconciled but they that be sent Ambassadours vvith full commission to reconcile men vnto their Prince must knowe both howe grieuously they haue offended and what recompence they are willing to make vvhich must needes be by their owne confession Nowe for the practise of confession by the first Christians Act. 19. vers 18. 19. it is recorded That many of the faithfull came confessing and declaring their deedes and many that had followed curious actes brought their bookes and burned them in the presence of al the rest Note here both particular confession made vnto S. Paul of the seuerall deedes and factes and not in generall that they vvere sinners as the very vvordes doe witnesse Confessing their deedes that is vvhat they had done in particular And againe howe should he haue knowne their study of curious bookes if they had not told their sinnes in particular some Protestants conuinced by the text say That they confessed some of their sinnes in particular but not all But I meruaile how they came by the knowledge of that for vvhy should they confesse some more then others and the vse of Scriptures is by the naming of sinnes indefinitely to signifie all as when we pray Forgiue vs our sinnes we meane all our sinnes and when it is said of Christ He shall saue his people from their sinnes it is meant that he shall saue them not from some of their sinnes but from al. Lastly touching the commandement S. Iames doth charge vs a Iac.
5. vers 16. To confesse our sinnes one to another vvhich b Hom. 2. in Leuiticum Origen c L. 3. de Sacerdot S. Chrysostome and d Lib. 50. Homiliar hom 12. S. Augustine doe expound to be meant of particular confession to the Priest And S. Bede vpon that place saith In this sentence that discretion is to be vsed that for dayly and light offences we may confesse vnto such our equals by whose prayers we trust to be helped but the vncleannesse of the more grieuous leper we must as it is in the lawe lay open to the Priest and according to his judgement we must endeauour to be purged so much and so long time as he shall command Caluin saith that S. Iames speaketh of such confession only which euery one is to make vnto his brother whome he hath offended and confirmeth it because it followeth in the text And pray one for another But that vvhich goeth before of calling the Priest to the sicke-man to anoint him doth rather argue that it is spoken of confession to be made to the Priest if the sicke-man remember any mortall sinnes for it is not enough to haue the Priest to pray for the sicke and to anoile him if the sicke be in state of mortall sinnes vnlesse he first confesse himselfe of them he cannot be absolued from them nor vvorthylie receiue Extreame Vnction And as other such like places are expounded as for example 1. Pet. 4. vers 9. Rom. 12. vers 6. Vse hospitality one towardes another euery one as he hath receiued grace ministring the same one toward another vvhich is not let the poore vse hospitality as well toward the rich as the rich toward the poore and the sicke cure the physition as vvell as the physition to cure the sicke But vse hospitality one toward another that is those that be vvell able towardes them that haue neede euen so confesse one to another that is he that hath sinned to him that hath authority to absolue him Nowe let vs heare howe auncient this confession is and vvhether it vvere heard off for a thousand yeares after Christ S. Ireneus vvho liued in the next age after the Apostles L. 1. coÌ„t Haeres cap. 9. Lib. de Poenitent maketh mention of certayne noble Women whome Heretikes had pittifully abused and saith That they comming to repentance made a confession of their faultes Tertullian of the same age reprehendeth some certayne Who more fearefull as he speaketh of their owne shame then carefull of their saluation put off their confessions from day to day whome he likeneth to them who had diseases in their secret partes and fearing to discouer them to the physition doe through their owne shamefastnesse perish And in the end of the booke he saith That this confession of faultes was appointed by our Lord himselfe Homil. 2. in Leuit. Origen There is also a seauenth remission of sinnes though hard and laborious which is by penance when the sinner doth wash his bedde with his teares and when he is not ashamed to confesse his sinne to the Priest of our Lord and to seeke remedy c. Lib. 3. Epist 16. S. Cyprian When in lesser offences penance is to be done a just time and confession is to be made his life being looked into who doth the penance neyther can he be admitted to come to the communion before the Bishop or Clergy haue laid their handes vpon him how much more in these most grieuous and exceeding great crimes must all thinges be warylie and discretly obserued according vnto our Lordes order and discipline Serm. 5. de lapsis Againe Of howe much greater faith and better feare are they who though tâ—â—y be not entangled with any crime of sacrifice or libell yet because they thought of those offences doe simply and sorrowfully confesse them selues euen of those thoughts vnto the Priestes of God Serm. in illa verba S. Athanasius vpon these vvordes Going into a Village yee shall finde a Colt tyed saith Let vs examine our selues whether the fetters of our sinnes be loosed that we may amend our liues and if they be not yet loosed let vs present our selues vnto the Disciples of IESVS For they are present that by authority which they haue receiued from our Sauiour can loose you Math. 18. vers 18. Ioh. 20. vers 23. Regula 228. Oratione in mulierem peccatricem for he said Whatsoeuer yee binde vpon earth shall be bound in heauen and vvhatsoeuer yee loose on earth shall be loosed in heauen And whose sinnes yee forgiue they are forgiuen S. Basil Of necessity must we confesse our sinnes to them vnto whome the dispensation of the mysteries of God is committed that is to Priestes S. Gregory Nyssene Doe thou confidently open to the Priest thy faultes discouer the secrets of thy hart as priuy woundes vnto the physition and he will haue care both of thy honour and of thy health S. Ambrose when he did heare men that came to him to receiue penance and to confesse their faultes as very many came to him therefore he did so vveepe that he constrayned them also to vveepe as vvitnesseth holy Paulinus in his life In cap. 10. Ecclesiast S. Hierome If that serpent the Deuill haue bitten any man secretly and haue venimed him without the priuity of any man if he that was strooken hold his peace and doe not penance nor will confesse his wound vnto his Brother and Master his Master that hath a tongue to cure and heale him cannot easily helpe him for if he that is sicke be ashamed to shew his wound vnto the physition physicke cannot cure that which it knoweth not And vpon the 16. of S. Mathewe he specifieth those Masters that had tongues to heale saying So here the Bishop and Priestes doe eyther binde or loose who according to their office hauing heard the variety of sinne doth knowe who is to be bound and who is to be absolued S. Augustine Be sorrowfull before confession In psal 66. but when thou hast confessed leape for joy euen then thou shalt be cured the conscience of him that doth not goe to confession hath gathered together corrupt matter an imposthume is swelled out it vexeth him and giueth him no rest the Physitions apply the lenitiue of wordes and sometimes launce him c. Doe thou put thy selfe into the handes of the Physition confesse and let all that corrupt matter issue forth in confession and then rejoyce and be gladde for the rest shall afterward be easily cured That Priests be these Physitions of soules he teacheth Lib. 50. homiliarum hom 12. Item tract 49. super Iohan. Con. 2. in Psal 101. Tract 22. in Iohan. hom 49. Lib. 50. hom Doe penance such as is done in the Church of God let no man say I doe penance secretly I doe it to God God knoweth that I doe it who doth pardon it To whome he replyeth thus Then in vayne was
it said vvhatsoeuer yee loose in earth shall be loosed in heauen Therefore to no purpose were the keyes of heauen giuen to the Church we make frustrate the Gospell of God we make voyde the wordes of Christ finally we promise to our selues that which he denyeth vs c. See howe playnely and formally he so many hundreth yeares before hath confuted the Protestants shot-anker and only refuge of confessing their sinnes to God alone and assureth vs that it is a most vayne excuse and vvill not serue any mans turne vvhen as God himselfe hath set downe and decreed that he will pardon no man of his sinnes vvho doth not seeke absolution thereof from them to whome he hath committed the charge of that matter that is from Priestes And in right reason can there be any better bridle vnto our corrupt nature then the very shame and bashfulnesse of confessing our secret faultes vnto a learned good and graue man such as a Confessour is or should be Againe where true confession of sinnes is there men vse the best meanes that can be to driue them from the custome of sinning for besides the particular sorrow which they haue of their sinnes they must firmely purpose neuer to returne to any kinde of sinne afterward yea they must abstayne from all occasions alluring to sinne so that no man vsing wel this Sacrament of Confession can dwell in malice vsury leachery or any state of sinne Moreouer if they haue taken away the goodes or good name of their neighbour they are enjoyned in confession presently to doe their best to restore it backe againe These and many other great commodities being the inseperable companions of priuate Confession vve Catholikes doe attribute vnto the good vse thereof the greatest Godlines and deuotion that is amongst vs. And no maruaile though our common enemy doe so busily endeauour to withdrawe sinners from it amplifying vnto them the indignity and shame of it but if they would consider maturely that dying in their sinnes for lacke of due confession they shal be to their vtter shame and confusion made to confesse them all and euery one at the latter day before God all his Angels and Saints the Deuill and all damned soules being also present they would vndoubtedly make choise rather to confesse their sinnes to some one vertuous Priest vvho will neuer reueale them but in Christes name absolue and pardon them then to leaue them to that dreadfull day of Gods just judgements when besides the shame and confusion of them no pardon is to be hoped for And thus much touching Confession Lastly saith M. PERKINS The abuse of satisfaction is that they haue burned Canonicall satisfaction which was made to the congregation by open offendors into a satisfaction of the justice of God for the temporall punishment of their sinnes Behold here a most horrible prophanation of the whole Gospell Answere Behold here a most vngodly and sencelesse out-crye what doth the whole sanctity of the Gospell consist only in the point of our satisfaction it is too too absurd so to say And howe knoweth he that Canonicall satisfaction vvas only or principally to satisfie the congregation They that ordayned of old those Canons of satisfaction had a greater care to satisfie and appease the wrath of God justly incensed against such wicked offendors then to satisfie men but this prophane man very fondly dreameth that they rather sought to please men then God But of this matter there is a vvhole question in the former part there he that vvill may see howe all satisfactions are principally instituted to appease Gods wrath and that they doe apply vnto vs the satisfactions of Christ and make vs partakers of them and are besides most conuenient meanes to bridle out corrupt nature from all sorts of sinnes M. PERKINS to shewe that he vvas the same man in the end of his booke as in the beginning concludeth this part with a most palpable lie to wit That Priests are not put to death in England for their religion but for their treasons which they intend and enterprise Let their owne recordes be seene whether very many of them haue not beene condemned only because they are Priestes made after the auncient Roman manner without laying vnto their charge any enterprise eyther against the person of the Prince or peace of the State But what wil not a Minister auouch to disgrace poore Priestes vvho doe neuerthelesse not only pray but vvill be ready also to spend their bloud for the conuersion of men of his sort and for all others their deare country-men by them most pitteously seduced Hitherto M. PERKINS hath handled pointes of religion something like a schoole-man now like a pulpit-minister he goeth on with his text and maketh such an vnsauory glosse vpon it that it loathes me almost to looke on it yet because he raketh and heapeth togither all the most odious matter that he can deuise against vs I will giue it the whippe and hastily runne ouer it thus he beginneth Secondly out of the same text Goe out of her my people I gather Pag. 331. that the true Church of God is and hath beene in the present Roman Church as the corne in the heape of chaffe For though Popery ouer-spread the face of the earth for many hundreth yeares yet in the middest thereof God reserued a people to himselfe that truly worshipped him c. And this will serue the turne to stoppe the mouthes of Papists who demand of vs where our Church was one hundreth yeares agoe before the dayes of Luther We answere out of this text that our Church hath beene euer since the dayes of the Apostles and that in the very middest of the Papacy but it first beganne to shewe it selfe in Luthers time an vniuersall Apostacy hauing hidden it before for many hundreth yeares Answere Here is a proper peece of doctrine and proued as profoundly It is very ridiculous and absurd to say that their Church vvas in the Church of Rome for one that wil be both of their Church of the Roman must beleeue and professe not one or two but more then twenty articles flat contradictory the one to the other which is impossible Can a man at once beleeue the Pope to be head of the vniuersal Church and with-all sweare that he hath no authority in many Prouinces of it but that all Ecclesiasticall jurisdiction there belongeth to the Prince or that Christs naturall body is really present in the Sacrament and not really present and that Saints are to be prayed vnto and not to be prayed vnto nothing is more euident then that this cannot be no more could the Protestants Church be in the Church of Rome And if the Protestants vvould allowe them for theirs vvho beleeue most of the articles of the Roman faith contrary to their owne doctrine so that in some fewe points they doe agree and accord with them yet the Church of Rome wil neuer take them for any of her children who
them hold to be possible In colloq Marpurg art 29. Li. 1. cont Scargum cap. 14. as Zwinglius Oecolampadius Andreas Volanus c. Fourthly though we beleeue God to be maker of heauen and earth yet neuer none but blasphemous Heretikes held him to be true authour and proper worker of al euil done vpon earth by men Such neuerthelesse be Bucer Zwinglius Caluin and others of greatest estimation among the Protestantes See the Preface 2. And in IESVS Christ his only Sonne our Lord. They must needes hold Christ not to be Gods true naturall Sonne which denie him to haue receiued the diuine nature from the Father againe they make him according to his God-head inferiour to his Father See the Preface 3. Borne of the Virgin MARY Many of them teach that Christ was borne as other children are Dialog de corpore Christi pag. 94. De consil part 2. 276. with breach of his Mothers virginity as Bucer and Molineus in vnione Euangelij part 3. and Caluin signifieth no lesse in harmo sup 2. Math. vers 13. 4. Suffered vnder Pontius Pilate crucified dead and buried Friar Luther with a great band of his followers doth toughly defend that the God-head it selfe suffered which to be blasphemy Musculus doth proue in his booke of the errours of Luthers Schollers yet Beza with all them that hold Christ to haue beene our mediatour according to his diuine nature can hardly saue themselues from the same blasphemy For the chiefest act of Christes mediation consisteth in his death if then the God-head did not suffer that death it had no part in the principal point of Christs mediatiō Hither also appertaine all these their blasphemies to wit that Christ was so frighted with the apprehension of death that he forgotte himselfe to be our mediatour yea refused as much as in him lay to be our redeemer Item that he thought himselfe forsaken of God and finally despaired See the Preface 5. Descended into hel the third day he arose againe from the dead It is worth a mans labour to behold their goodly variety of expositions about Christs descending into hell 2. Apolog. ad Sanct. Beza followed of Corliel our Country-man thinkes this to haue crept into the Creede by negligence and so the French Hugonots and Flemish Gues haue cast it cleane out of their Creede but they are misliked of many others who had rather admit the wordes because they be found in Athanasius Creede and also in the old Roman Creede expounded by Ruffinus but they doe most peruersly expound them Caluin saith that Christes suffering of the paines of hell on the Crosse is signified by these wordes but he pleaseth not some others of them because Christes suffering and death also goeth before his descending into hel and the wordes must be taken orderly as they lie Thirdly diuers of them will haue it to signifie the laying of Christes body in the graue but that is signified plainely by the word buried Wherefore some others of them expound it to signifie the lying of his body in the graue three daies which M. PER. approueth as the best but it is as wide from the proper and literall signification of the wordes as can be For what likenesse is there betweene lying in the graue and descending into hell Besides Caluin their great Rabbin misliketh this exposition as much as any of the rest Lib. 2. Instit ca 16. sess 8. and calleth it an jdle fancy Fourthly Luther Smideline and others cited by Beza art 2. doe say that Christes soule after his death went to hell where the Diuels are there to be punished for our sinnes thereby to purchase vs a fuller redemption which is so blasphemous that it needes not any refutation As ridiculous is another receiued of most Protestantes that Christes soule went into Paradise which well vnderstood is true For his soule in hell had the joyes of Paradise but to make that an exposition of Christes descending into hell is to expound a thing by the flat contrary of it Al these and some other expositions also the Protestants haue deuised to lead their followers from the ancient and only true interpretation of it to wit that Christ in soule descended vnto those lower partes of the earth where all the soules departed from the beginning of the world were detained by the just judgement of God till Christ had paide their ransome and were not admitted into the kingdome of heauen before Christ had opened them the way thither 6. Concerning Christes resurrection they doe also erre For whereas a resurrection is the rising vp of the very same body that died with all his naturall partes they denie Christ to haue taken againe the same bloud Cal. in 27. Math. Perkins pag. 194. In cap. 24. Lucae which he shed in his passion and yet is the bloud one notable part of the body Caluin also affirmeth it to be an old wifes dreame to thinke that in Christes handes and feete there remaine the print of nailes and the wound in his side notwithstanding that Christ shewed them to his Disciples and offered them to be touched of S. Thomas 7. About Christes assension into heauen they doe somewhat dissent from the truth For some of them say that Christs body did not pearce through the heauens by vertue of a glorious body least they should thereby be compelled to graunt that two naturall bodies may be together in one place and therefore as well one true body in two places at once but that broad gappes were made in the lower heauens to make him way to the highest which is very ridiculous and more against true Philosophy they say also 1. Cor. 15. vers 21. Coll. 1 18. that he was not the first man that entered into the possession of heauen which is flat against the Scriptures that call Christ the first fruites and first begotten of the dead Thirdly they locke Christ so closely vp in heauen Beza in c. 2. actorum that they hold it impossible for him to remoue thence at any time before the last judgement for feare they should otherwise be inforced to confesse that his body may be in two places at once which is to make him not Lord of the place but some poore prisoner therein And as for Christs sitting on the right hād of his Father they are not yet agreed what it signifieth See Conrad L. 1. ar 25 de concor Caluinist L. 2. Insti c. 14. ss 3. Caluin plainely saith that after the later judgemēt he shal sit there no longer That God shal then render to euery man according to his workes as holy Scripture very often doth testifie al the packe of them doth vtterly denie 8. I beleeue in the holy Ghost First Caluin and his followers who hold the holy Ghost to haue the God-head of himselfe and not to haue receiued it from the Father and the Sonne must consequently denie the holy Ghost to proceede from the Father and the Sonne In the Preface as hath beene else where proued
Secondly they make him much inferiour vnto the other persons for they teach in their French Catechismes that the Father alone is to be adored in the name of the Sonne In cap. 6. 17. Isa in 16. Marc. And Caluin against Gentil saith that the title of creatour belongeth only to the Father and else where that the Father is the first degree cause of life and the Sonne the second And that the In 26. Math. v. 64. Father holdeth the first ranke of honour and gouernement and the Sonne the second where the holy Ghost is either quite excluded from part with the Father and the Sonne or at most must be content with the third degree of honour 9. I beleeue the holy Catholike Church the communion of Saints First where as there is but one Catholike Church one as the Councell of Nice expresly defineth following sundry textes of the word of God they commonly teach that there be two Churches one inuisible of the elect another visible of both good and bad Secondly they imagine it to be holy holy by the imputation of Christes holinesse to the elected Bretheren and not by the infusion of the holy Ghost into the hartes of all the faithfull Thirdly they cannot abide the name Catholike in the true sence of it Catholike that is they wil not beleeue the true Church to haue beene alwaies visibly extant since the Apostles time and to haue bin generally spread into all Countries otherwise they must needes forsake their owne Church which began with Friar Luther and is not receiued generally in the greatest part of the Christian world Finally they beleeue no Church no not their owne in all points of faith but hold that the true Church may erre in some principall points of faith Howe then can any man safely relie his saluation vpon the credite of such an vncertaine ground erring guide may they not then as well say that they doe not beleeue the one Catholike Church because they doe as well not beleeue it as beleeue it And as for the communion of Saints their learned masters doe commonly cassier it out of the Creede and that not without cause For by the Saints vnderstanding as the Apostles did al good Christians whither aliue or departed this world they that deny praier to Saints and for the soules in Purgatory haue reason to reject the common society entercourse that is betweene the Saints and the mutuall honour and help which such good Christian soules doe yeeld and afford one to another 10. The forgiuenesse of sinnes It is not easily to find what is their setled opinion touching the forgiuenes of originall sinne in Infants Some attribute it to Baptisme but that cannot stand with their common doctrine that Sacraments haue no vertue in them to remit sinnes or to giue grace Others say that God without any meanes doth then when they be baptised of himselfe immediately justifie them but that cannot stand in their owne doctrine because Infants want the instrumēt of faith to lay hold on that justice then offered by God and therefore cannot being so yonge take it vnto them Others will haue Infants sanctified in their mothers wombe by vertue of a couenant which they suppose God to haue made with old father Abraham and all his faithfull seruants that forsooth their seede shall be holy But this is most phantastical and contrary to the Scriptures and daily experience for Isaac was the sonne of promise and yet Esau his sonne was a reprobate Dauides father was a Godly Israelite and yet Dauid affirmeth Psal 50. that he himselfe was conceiued in iniquities and we may see whole Countries nowe turned Turkes whose ancestors were good Christians therefore not all the soules of the faithfull are sanctified in their mothers wombes Secondly how euil soeuer they agree about the remission of sinne yet there is a perfect consent among them that such relikes of originall sinne remaine in euery man baptised and sanctified that it infecteth all and euery worke he doth with deadly sinne yea that which remaineth is properly sinne in it selfe though it be not imputed to the party so that sinne is alwaies in them though their sinnes be neuer so well forgiuen And as for the Sacrament of Penance by which we hold al sinnes committed after Baptisme to be forgiuen they doe renounce the benefit of it and are at vtter defiance with it 11. The resurrection of the bodies Whether Farel the first Apostle of the Geneuian Gospel doubted thereof or no let his successor Caluin tell you who answereth Farels letter thus Episto ad Farellum That the resurrection of this our flesh doth seeme to thee incredible no meruaile c. Againe many of them teach that Christ tooke not his bloud againe which he shed vpon the crosse yea some of them are so gracelesse as to say that his pretious bloud wherewith we were redeemed Vide Conradum li. 1. art 20. rotted away on the earth 1600. yeares agoe If then it be not necessary to a true resurrection to rise againe with the same bloud why is it necessary to rise againe with the same bones and flesh the one being as perfect a part of a mans body as the other 12. Life euerlasting First Captaine Caluin holdeth it for very certaine that no soule doth enter into the joyes of heauen wherein consisteth life euerlasting vntill the day of doome 3. Institu 25. sess 6. These be his wordes the soules of the Godly hauing ended the labour of this war-fare doe goe into a blessed rest where they expect the enjoying of the promised glory And that all thinges are holden in suspence vntill Christ the redeemer appeare whose opinion is yet better then was his predecessor Luthers For he teacheth in many places that the soules of the Godly departing from their bodies Enarra in Gen. c. 26. In Ecclesi c. 9. v. 10. haue no sence at all but doe lie fast a sleepe vntill the latter day Take this one for a tast Another place to proue that the dead feele or vnderstand nothing wherefore Salomon thought the dead to be wholy a sleepe and to perceiue nothing at all And againe the sleepe of the soule in the life to come is more profound then in this life And Luther with this one position of his as that famous historiographer Iohn Sleidan recordeth ouerthrewe two points of Popery Li. 9. hist to wit praying to Saintes for they are so fast a sleepe that they cannot heare vs and praying for the dead For they in Purgatory slept also so soundly that they felt no paines A meete foundation surely to build such false doctrine vpon In 20. Luc hom 35. But Brentius is most plaine in this matter who ingeniously confesseth that albeit there were not many among them that did professe publikely the soules to die with the body yet the most vncleane life which the greatest part of their followers did lead doth clearely shewe that in their hartes they thinke no life to be
opinion of ours is by this very petition and M. PER. owne exposition of it much strengthned and confirmed and nothing at all weakened The fourth point of our doctrine hence impugned by M. PER. is that a man in this life may fulfill the lawe Whereas in this place euery seruant of God is taught to aske daylie pardon for the breach of the lawe answere is made that our daylie sinnes are veniall and not against the lawe though besides the lawe but this which they say is against this petition for a debt that commeth by forfeiture is against the band or obligation Nowe euery sinne is a debt causing the forfeiture of punishment and therefore is not beside but against the lawe Ans I graunt that euery sinne is a debt causing the forfeiture of punishment but this punishment may be small short and so the sinne veniall the debt not against the lawe directly yet against the band of some morall duty as the mispending of time vsing of some jdle wordes and the committing of such like light faults which I am bound in reason to auoid but not by any prescript lawe directly And thus in fine we see how fouly M. PER. was mistaken that thought to ouerthrow fower points of our doctrine at a clap when not so much as one is thereby any whit at all stirred He saith further In this clause as we forgiue our debters it is taken for graunted that we may certainely knowe that we repent and beleeue and are reconciled by God which all Roman Catholikes denie Answ Nothing lesse because much more is required to the one then to the other For it is farre easier to discerne whether I doe yet beare any euil will to my neighbour then to knowe assuredly that I doe hartily repent me of al my sinnes and that for the loue of God and further that I haue a firme purpose not to commit hereafter any kind of mortall sinne these thinges as euery one may plainely see are farre more difficult then the other of forgiuing them that trespasse against vs. In the last wordes and lead vs not into temptation we pray not saith he that God should free vs from temptation Psal 26. vers 1. for it is otherwhiles good to be tempted but that we be not left vnto the malice of Satan and held captiue of the temptation for here to be led into temptation and to be deliuered are opposed Nowe hence I gather that he who is the child of God truly justified and sanctified shall neuer fall wholy and finally from the grace of God and I conclude on this manner That which we aske according to the will of God 1. Ioh. 5. shall be graunted but this the child of God asketh that he might neuer be wholy forsaken of his father and led captiue into temptation this therefore shall be graunted Answ If this argument were sound neuer should any Christian that saith our Lordes praier fall finally and be damned because they all make this petition and that according to the will of God 1. Tim. 2. vers 4. who would haue all men saued Many thinges then besides saying our Lordes praier are required to saluation for want of which many that haue often said that praier fall finally Againe he mistaketh the true sence of that petition for therein we doe not aske that we continue not in sinne which we asked in the former petition forgiue vs our trespasses but we pray that we be not ouercome by the Deuill by yeelding our consent to the temptation and so fall into sinne Lastly he forgetteth himselfe much when he saith that it is good to be tempted for he holdeth for certaine that the very first motions to sinne in vs which is the beginning of the temptation are mortal sinnes and so by himselfe it is good to fall into mortall sinne if it be good we should be tempted Finally he saith this clause Amen signifieth a speciall faith concerning all the former petitions that they shall be graunted and therefore a speciall faith concerning remission of sinnes Answ It signifieth a speciall hope and confidence to obtaine them but no certainety of faith vnlesse vpon a condition which is vncertaine that is if we doe our partes God will not faile of his if we doe hartily repent vs and vse the Sacrament of Penance duly we shall assuredly obtaine remission of our sinnes Hitherto M. PER. hath argued against vs out of the Lordes praier nowe I will briefly shewe howe the Protestantes doctrine contrarieth it I haue in my answere to his objections touched some points already I adde that one position of their doctrine crosseth three of the first petitions I proue it thus In euery petition we must be assured as M. PER. holdeth or at the least haue a good hope to obtaine that we pray for or else it booteth vs not to pray but according to the Protestants doctrine no man can be assured nay can haue any hope to obtaine the three first petitions for if originall sinne doe continually dwell in vs and infect all our actions with deadly sinne as they teach Gods name cannot be sanctified in vs that are infected with such an vncleane leprosie neither secondly can God raigne as a King in vs if sinne possesse command all our members and thirdly Gods wil cannot be done by vs on earth as it is done in heauen if we cannot keepe his lawes and commandements which they in heauen doe wherefore the Protestantes haue no assurance to obtaine the three first petitions who are by their teachers assured that they are not to be expected or hoped for nor they cannot according to their owne rules from their hart make the said petitions being out of all hope to obtaine them In the fourth we aske aswell to be made partakers of Christes blessed body in the Sacrament which is the food of our soules as for our daylie corporal susteinance For so doe the ancient Fathers expound that petition as namely S. Ciprian in oratione Dominica S. Hierome in 6. Mathaei S. Ambrose li. 5. de Sacrament c. 4. where he hath these memorable wordes of the blessed Sacrament that before the wordes of Christ it was bread but after it is the body of Christ Why then saith he is it called here bread he answereth that it is called bread not simply but supersubstantiall bread For so doth the greeke word Epióusion signifie as well as daylie it is saith he not such bread as passeth into our body but it is the bread of eternal life that vpholdeth the substance of our soules Nowe you may be well assured that Protestantes who will not beleeue any such bodily presence doe not pray to God to giue it them And touching forgiuenesse of their debts to God and sinnes they are so assured of that before hand by the certainety of their new faith that they can no more request of God forgiuenesse of their sinnes then they can aske that God will make them reasonable creatures which they