that clene and pure chyrch of frere Barons there were neuer one among them yet aske I frere Barons farther howe proueth he that where so euer we fynde these tokens we shall be sure that though we can not tell whyche they be yet sure we may be that of his holy chyrche some in that company there be In the answere vnto this he putteth a dyffereÌ„ce in dede betwene the token of the good workes and the tokeÌ„ of the trew preachynge For as for the workes though they be very trew gospell workes they be he sayth no perfyte sure sygnes but onely tokens wherby we may coniecture deme well but not be sure bycause they may be fayned by hypocrysye but the tother token of the preachynge that token is he sayeth a perfyte token so that in that companye where so euer we se that happen we haue a perfayt token that there be in that company some men of Chrystes holy chyrche And this he proueth as ye haue herd by the authoryte of the prophete Esaie and of saynte Poule and by the sample of saynte Peter in the tenth of the Actes where at the preachynge of saynte Peter the holy goost fell downe on them all But as for that ensample proueth not Barns purpose For yt proueth no farther but that some tyme yt dothe so where the hearers be suche as so do receyue yt but â—arns muste proue vs that yt is euer so But this is frere Batons logyque and Tyndales and Luthers also and so is yt of theym all vppon a particulare they boldely conclude an vnyuersall Nowe as touchynge the wordes spoken of god by the mouth of the prophete Esaie My worde shall not retâ—uâ—ne agaynâ— to me frustrate but yt shall do all thynge that I wyll and yt shall prosper in those thynges vnto the wyche I dyd send yt what do the wordes proue for Barons purpose If he proue vs his purpose by these wordes he muste proue vs fyrst that the word of god wherof the prophete Esaie there speketh is none other worde but onely the preachynge of the scrypture For that is the worde whyche frere Barons here speketh of And therfore in the prophet Esaie the word may sygnyfye that worde of god of whyche worde saynte IohnÌ„â—ayth In the begynnynge was the worde that is to wyt the onely begoten son of god as yt there sygnyfyeth in dede not the word wryten in scrypture though y â— of that word be mych wryteÌ„ in scrypture Then seâ—th euery lerned man that those wordes of Esaie nothynge proue the purpose of frere Barons though yt myght there sygnyfye also the worde wryten in scrypture For yt proueth ye wote wyll not for the preachynge of the worde of god wryten in sâ—rypture yf yt be doutefull and not euydent whyther the prophete spake of the scrypture or not But now who so euer loke vppon the place in the byble he shall se that lyre and the ordynary glose and the interlynyare glose also do declare that though the wordes maye be expowned of the scrypture the prophete speketh these wordes properly of the worde of god that is goddes onely bygoten sone And the very texte playnely sheweth vppon all the cyrcumstauÌ„ces that the prophete there prophecyeth in the persone of the father after this maner As though he wolde say My worde that is to wyt my son whom I haue sent into the worlde for the redempcyon of man shall not retourne agayne to me voyde or empty For he shall bryng wyth hym the fathers oute of Lymbus But he shall do all thynge that I wyll For he shall teache both by wordes ensample and myracles both the Iewes and the Paynyms and make one chyrche of both and shall in fulfyllynge of my wyll humble hym selfe vnto the deth euen the deth of the crosse And he shall prosper in those thynges vnto the whyche I sent hym For hym self shall gloryousely ryse agayne fro deth and ascende vppe to me and here sytte in eternall glory on my ryght hande one egall god wyth the holy goste and me and shall bryng hyther also a gloryouse chyrche out of erthe to reygne wyth vs here in heuen Of this word therfore spake the prophete that is to say of the sonne of god and of his retournynge agayne to hys father of whose goynge forthe fro the father and retournynge agayne to the father wryteth the prophete Dauid His goyng forth is from the hygh heuen and his meatyng is vnto the height thereof and is not properly ment by the preachynge of the worde wryten in scrypture And therfore as I tolde you yt nothynge proueth the purpose of frere Barons And yet ouer all this yf the prophete spake there of the worde wryten in scrypture and of none other yet wolde it not proue that in euery place where yt were preached yt sholde nedes take suche holde in some folke that yt sholde of necessyte make in euery suche place some very members of the chyrch pure and clene wythoute spot or wrincle For god hath none other wyll for any thynge by Barns proued yet y t his word shold take such holde in euery place then in euery maÌ„ but lyke as his word doth his wyll retourned not agayne to god voyd yf yt take hold in some men thaâ— heare yt though yt take not hold in euery man that hereth yt so doth yt his wyll and retourneth not to hym voyde yf yt take holde in some place where yt is preached though yt take not holde in euery place And that it shold not in euery place take hold appereth by the wordes of our sauyour where he sayth to hys dyscyples whom he sent to preche In to what house so euerye entre fyrste saye ye peace be to thys house And then yf the sonne of peace be there your peace shall reste vppon hym or ellys your peace shall retourne agayne vnto your selfe In whyche oure sauyour sheweth vs that yf a good man preche well though there were not one in all hys audyence that wold be y e better for it yet sholde it not be voyde for the meryte sholde at the leste rebounde backe vppon hym selfe but not of necessyte take holde in euery audyence so farre forth that it myghte be preched vnto an hole cyty and take none holde but be reiected For whyche cause our sauyour sayed also to those whome he sent to preche yf any cytye refuse you and wyll not receyue your doctryne wype of the duste of your fete at your partynge in wytnesse agaynste them I tell you trouth the cytyes Sodome Gomorre shal in the day of dome be more easyly handeled then they And thus good readers ye se that these wordes of y e prophete Esaye wyll in no wyse auayle frere Barns but vtterly they leue hys purpose all vnproued Now hath he than but one ancre more vnto that shippe that is the wordes of saynt Poule where he sayth Fayth cometh by herynge herynge cometh
ye shall vnderstaÌ„de that where as in my dyaloge I had proued fyrste that the churche of Christe here in erthe shall euer endure and contynue as longe as the worlde shall laste whiche thynge is I doubte nat in suche wyse proued there that Tyndale dare nat hym selfe denye it here I than in the secoÌ„de boke dyd after proue that the knowen catholike church is that same churche and none of all the sectes of heretykes bycause all they be come out of it and that therfore all they be but braunches cut of or broken of frome thys vyne of Crystes mystycall body the knowen catholyke chyrche that syth they be from the stocke they therfore drye vp and wythere awaye and ware worth no thynge nor mete for no thynge but worthy for the fyre And so thys reasoÌ„ that Tyndale here reherseth I there laye forth and declare with dyuerse places of scrypture by whyche I proue at good length thorow all the seconde chapyter that suche as go out of thys knowen catholyke chyrche be and alwaye haue ben the heretykes and for heretykes be declared by the very scripture it self wherof I there by some places as some suche as saynte Cypryane sayeth hym self how be it of trouth not all the places of scrypture that he layeth for that purpose bycause I had not at that tyme redde and marked saynt Cypryane vpon that poynt Now commeth Tyndale and barely reherseth my reason dyssymulynge after hys accustumed fasshyon all that euer I layed forth for the profe Of all whyche thynges neyther in hys answere here whych he calleth hys solucyoÌ„ nor afterwarde when he cometh to the place in hys pertycular answerys vnto euery chapyter in order he neuer maketh any maner meÌ„cy on but when he cometh to my secoÌ„de boke goeth fro the fyrste chapyter to the thyrde as though the prenter had lefte the secunde vnprynted Is not this fashyoÌ„ a playne coÌ„fession of his ignorauÌ„ce and that he was at hys wyttes ende and sawe not what to saye vnto it And bycause he lefte all my profe of my reason vntouched he durst not here for shame speke of my name nor be a knowen that he redde that reason in my boke lest men sholde loke for it and spye that I â—adde so proued it that Tyndale durst not medâ—e wyth my prouys How be it sauynge that it hadde bene more wysedome for hym to haue dyssymuled and lette a lone all the whole mater els dyd he more wysely then to haue wrestled wyth that chapyter out of whyche he shall neuer be able to wade whyle he lyueth y â— reason I am sure is in it selfe so stroÌ„ge before made by saynt Cypryane as I sayde and some other mo other maner men then Tyndale or I be eyther And in good fayth I neuer loked that euer I shold haue fownden any man so folysshe as to wene that he were able to soyle it wyth thys argument that Tyndale here frameth for a lyke or that any man were so blynde of wyt as to wene that those two argumentes were lyke For remembre nowe good reder that the churche of Christ must as I haue in my dyaloge proued by scripture laste and contynue for euer and christes church can be buâ— one whervpon it must nedes folowe that there can none go out of hit to begynne any newe churche of Christe But those therfore that go out therof muste nedes be churches of heretykes Than muste Tyndale if he make his reason lyke myne make the â—ynagoge of the Iewes lyke to the churche of Christe in perpetuitie of lastynge and contenuaunce vpon erthe or elles shall his argument and hys ensample be as like to myne as I wyste ones a gentyll woman make vnto her husbande whyche longed sore to teche her and make her perceyue the treatyse of the spere byddynge her consyder well what he shulde shewe her And fyrste he began at the erthe and to make her perceyue that the erthe hangeth in the myddes of the worlde by the payse and weyght of hym selfe and the ayre compasynge the water and the erthe rounde about on euery syde ye muste quod he lerne and marke well this that in the whole worlde hygher and lower is nothynge elles but vtter and inâ—er so that of the whole worlde erth water ayre and all the speres aboue beyng eche in a rounde compace ouer other the erthe lyâ—th in the very myddes and as we myght say in the wombeâ— that is of the whole worlde from euery parte the innermost place and from it vpon all sydes towarde the heuen as it is outwarde so is hygher so that as I tell you in y e whole worlde all is one hygher and more outwarde lower and more inwarde And therfore the erthe syth he is in the very myddes that is the most inwarde place of y e whole world he is therfore in the lowest for of the whole worlde the innest is as I tolde you the lowest And than syth the erth lyeth in the lowest hys owne weyght ye wote well muste nedes holde hym there bycause ye perceyue your selfe that no heuy thing can of hym selfe ascende vpwarde And than the erthe lyenge all redy in the lowest place if he shulde fall out of place on any syde lyke as he shulde fall frome the inner parte to the vtter so shulde he fall fro the lower place into the hygher And that ye wote well it can nat bycause it is heuy And therfore ymagen that there were an hole bored euyn thorow the whole erthe yf there were a mylle stone throweÌ„ dâ—wen down here on thys syde from our fete it shulde fynally reste and remayne in the very myddes of the erth And though the hole go thorow yet y â— stone could not fall thorow bycause that from the myddes as it sholde go outwarde from the innermoste parte so sâ—old it whych a myll stone maye not do ascende hygher from the toweste place bycause as I tolde you in the whole whorlde vppon euery syde to go outwarde frome the innermoste is ascendynge to go inward from the vttermore is descendyng euer the vtter parte is on euery syde of the whole round worlde the hygher and the inner part the lower Now whyle he was tellynge her thys tale she nothyng wente about to consyder hys wordes but as she was wont in all other thynges studyed all the whyle nothynge ellys but what she myghte saye to the contrary And whan he hadde wyth mych worke and ofte interruptynge brought at laste hys tale to an ende well quod â—he to hym as Tyndale sayth to me I wyll argue lyke and make you a lyke sample My mayde hath yender a spynnynge whele or els bycause all your reasoÌ„ resteth in the rouÌ„denes of the world come hyther thou gyrle take out thy spyndle and brynge mo hyther the wharâ—e Lo syr ye make ymagynacyons I can not tell you what But here is a wharle and it is rounde as the worlde is and we shall not
a good lesson and a goodly gospell of this euangelycall doctour I wysse saynt Peter answered not Symon Magus so sore ye wote well But what syth there is no remedy wyth vs but that Tyndale wyll nedys dampne vs all in to Dymmynges daie yet lette vs beseche hym of hys comfortable counsayle for some other good felowes as haue bene by grace hytherto kepte and preserued frome suche vngodly coÌ„mynge into the fayth and haue so well resysted all credence of myracles and all mennes persuasyons that for any thynge that god coulde do by mene of men or myracles they stande yet clere aborde and byleue nothynge at all If some such good felowe wolde now beseche Tyndale to teache hym the meanes how he myghte gete hys felyng fayth what counsayle wold Tindale now gyue vnto hym wyll he byd hym repente hys vnbylyefeâ— yf he so byd hym the man wyll wene he mocketh hym For how canne he repente the not byleuynge of any artycle but yf he fyrste byleue that hys dutye is to byleue it and harde it is to coÌ„ceyue or imagyne that a man maye byleue that suche a poynte or suche a poynte euery mâ—n oughte to bylâ—ue but yf he fyrste byleue that poynt hym selfe And Tyndale hath also shewed vs that concernyng the byleuyng the electe can no thynge do at all tyll god make hym fyrste bothe for to se and fele and so forth and therfore when he telleth hym thys tale of bylyâ—f and then byddeth hym go and repente hys vnbylyefe byfore he tell hym how he maye fyrste come to the very felynge bylyefe the poore man maye well thynke that Tindale dâ—th but mocke hym what counsayle then wyll Tyndale gyue hym ferther wyll he tell hym that it is the lyberall fre gyfte of god and therfore aduyse hym to praye god to gyue it hym If Tyndale tell hym thus then the man callynge to mynde Tyndals formaâ—e tale that he hath wrytâ—n and taught that the wyll of man can no thynge wurke wyth god towarde god though it maye wurke wyth god towarde outwarde thynges and now thys prayour yf it lye not in hys wyll wherfore doth Tyndale aduyse hym to it And yf it lye in hys wyll yet syth by Tyndals tale it can no thynge do toward god and the turnynge of god to hym and hym to god For yf it coulde then could hys wyll do somwhat toward god whyche Tyndale doth expressely denye the pore man wyll wene that Tyndale doth yet but mocke More ouer syth Tyndale expressely mocketh all endeuoure of mannys wyll in subdewynge of hys reason into the seruyse of the fayth of Cryst and calleth it a betleblynd reason the man wyll soone se that Tyndale is hym selfe betleblynde yf he se not that it is then but a betleblynde counsayle to byd hym go pray therfore For well ye wote the selfe same mynde and eâ—tent of prayenge that god may make hym byleue is some endeuoure of hys owne wyll towarde the bylyefe And yet whenne Tyndale hath more ouer tolde vs yet more playnely that the man can by hys wyll no more do towarde the gettynge of the fayth then can the chylde in the begetynge of hys owne father and euery man well woteth that the chylde can not praye god to cause hys graundefather to bygete hys father thys man muste nedes perceyue that in byddynge hym to pray for the fayth Tyndale doth playnely mocke hym Fynally good faythfull reder I can not in good fayth perceyue what counsayle Tyndale can geue any man towarde saluacyon standyng his frantyke heresyes agaynst free wyll whyche as yt is in euery good and merytoryous worke preueÌ„ted by the goodnesse of god so doth yt in such as haue age and reason worke and walke on wyth god not in other thinges onely but with endeuour also toward fayth by credence geuynge bothe to myracles and good persuasyons of men whych thynges god hath here ordayned for the meanes towarde yt conuenyent for the state of this present lyfe and suffycyent for the iuste cause of damnacyon of all such as for lacke of theyr owne deuour and for frowardnes of theyr owne fre wyll do not vppon so suffycyent caases byleue syth that yf there lakked not endeuour vppon theyr owne parte the goodnes of god wolde haue assysted theym wyth his helpe to the perfeccyon and full infusyon of that grace in fayth hope and charite that but yf the wyll afterward fynally fall therfro shold bryng to the glorye from whyche they sholde neuer fall and towarde whych glory Tyndale standyng his heresy can as ye se bable he neuer so sayntly geue any man any couÌ„sayle forwarde but euen to syt styll and do nought and let god alone For as ye se playnely to this ende at last cometh all his holy heresy when yt is well examyned And therfore wolde not yet mayster More by glad to chaunge his fayth for Tyndales as faythlesse as false Tyndale calleth yt But now concludeth Tyndale all his coÌ„cclusyon thus Tyndale And hereby maye ye se that it is a playn and an euydeÌ„t coÌ„clusion as briâ—â—t as the sonne shinynge that the trouth of goddes worde dependeth not of 〈◊〉 treuth of the congregacyon More who euer sayde that yt dyd who was euer so madde to thynke that the trouth of goddes worde depended vppon the mouthes of any mortall men or any creature eyther in erthe or heuen but wythoute any outwarde dependens hath his solydyte substaunce and fastenes of and in yt self But the thynge that ys in questyon betwene vs ys not wherby Tondale knoweth and I also that goddes worde is trew But wherby he knoweth and I to whyche is the worde of god and bycause Tyndale and I be not agreed theruppon but I saye wryten and vnwryten and he but wryten onely I come nerer vnto hym therin aske hym how he knoweth whyche is the worde of god wryten that is to wyt whych is the very scrypture And theâ— say I that the certaynte of thys thynge euery man that ordynaryly hath yt coÌ„meth to yt by the catholyque chyrche And that I say trouth in this poynt I thynke that euery crysten man that knoweth which be the scrypturesâ— will for his owne part bere me weâ—nesse as holy saynt Austayn hath all redy downe for his parte in the wordes of his before remâ—mbred wryten agaynsâ— the Manycheis where he sayth I wold not byleue the gospell but yf the authoryte of the chyrche moued me therto whyche sayenge of saynte Austayne ye se your selfe that Tyndale hath so falsely and yet for all that so â—ayntly glosed for an answere that they remayne styll vnanswered And therfore as for Tyndales coÌ„clusyon we wyll with good wyll graunte hym that yt is as clere as the sonne shynynge that the trewth of goddes wordes dependeth not vpon the trewth of the congregacyon But syth ye se good reders as clere as the sonne shyuynge that no man sayde the contrarye nor the questyon betwene vs was not whyther goddes worde were trewe bycause the chyrche
no chrysten man can be daÌ„pned but yf he wyll not byleue For nothynge he sayth can dampne hym but onely vnbylyefe For all other synnys he sayth be supped vp and swalowed all at onys in the bylyefe And therfor who so come to baptysme with onely bare bylyef all his other synnes as Luther calleth them or hys horryble dedes as Tindale calleth them which he is by the frayltye of hyâ— flesshe about for all his baptysme to do when he cometh hâ—me froÌ„ the fonte can nothyng lette any perfeccyon to be by god infounded in hys baptysme And then syth y t perfecâ—yoÌ„ muâ—te be by Tyndale eyther the felyng fayth or els the felyng of the faythe whyle there is by hym none other faythe suffycyent it foloweth that euery man whyche with hystorycall fayth cometh to baptisme is sure of y e feling faith how many synnys so euer he be abâ—nte of feblenes â—raylâ—ye to comytte after Now be it yf Tindale wyll for all this make any styckyng I can not tell what in them y â— of age discrecyon come vnto baptisme say there may be somâ— lette vppon theyr parte by reason that they may be about to synne wyllyngly and eyther of purpose or malyce lette vs consyder and waye well thys mater in them that come to baptysme wythout any maner lette when the chyldren are baptysed whyche kynde of fayth haue they The hystorycall fayth or the felynge fayth For fayth haue they muste or ellys they canne neuer stande in goddes fauoure and be saued wytnessynge saynte Poule that wythout fayth it is impossyble to please god And therfore of trouth faith they haue For though they come to the baptysme be receyued to the font in the fayth of theyr fathers and of the hole chyrch that offereth them yet with y e baptysme is there by god infouÌ„ded into them his grate the habyt of fayth hope cheryte wherwith they be made forth with perfayte meÌ„bres of hys mystycall body the catholyke chyrch iÌ„ erth therby made iÌ„heritable vnto y t blesse of heueÌ„ Now aske I therfore Tyndale which kynde of fayth is this the hystorycall fayth or the felyng fâ—yth Not the hystoricall I trow For y e chyldren haue not yet neyther redde nor herd many storyes wherfore it must nedes be by Tyndals own tale the felyng fayth For mo kyndes of faith putteth he not but those twayne nor none suffycyent for saluacyon but onely that same one suffycyent muste the fayth be that the chylde receyueth in the baptysme for ellys were the chylde neuer the rather saued in case he dyed as many chyldren do in the chrysome cloth or in the cradle Peraduenture Tindale gessyng now wher about I go wyll say that in the baptysme god infouÌ„deth into some the felyng fayth that is to say into hys onely electes in theyr hartes he writeth that into some other he infouÌ„deth it not and they be the reprobates he wyll happely say that it is agred by doctours of the chyrch that god gyueth in y e baptysme not lyke grace to euery chylde But vnto thys I answere that though in the baptysme eyther at the more goodnes more instaÌ„t prayour of y e fathers or godfathers of the â—hylde or for some other cause seene vnto his hyghe wysdom he gyue some one greter grace then to some other yet gyueth he them all one kynde of grace and one kinde of fayth though they dyffer in degrees as very a man is he that hath lytle stature as he that hath a great a Pygmey as a Geaunt And Tyndale sayth hym selfe in his answere vnto my dyaloge that our wurkes muste be as perfayt as the wurkâ—s of Cryst hym selfe but fayth he sayth is suffycyent though it be neuer so lytell And besyde thys as I sayed before god gyueth vnto eâ—ery chylde in the baptysme the habyâ—e of â—hat fayth that 〈◊〉 suffycyent for saluacyon but thâ—â— is sayth Tyâ—dale nâ—ne but the felynge fayth ergo by Tyndale the felynge fayth it is wherof the habyt god infoundeth into euery chylde in the baptysme But yet syth I haue proued that yf the chylde haue any fayth he hath by Tyndals tale the felyng fayth â—ow wyll Tyndale peraduenture saye that the habyte oâ—â—ayth is no fayth bycause it is not actuall fayth whych 〈◊〉 hath not for lacke of the vse of reason for want wheroâ—â—e can not thynke vppon nor actually consent vnto any poynte of faythe But vnto thys I answere that he maye by the same reason saye that the chylde hath no reasonable soule bycause he can not thynke vpon any reasonynge and that therfore he lacketh the specyficall and kyndely dyfference that dyuydeth the kynde of man from all the kyndes of vnreasonable brutyshe bestes and then is the chylde no more man then a calâ—e Also yf the habituall fayth be no fayth then is the chyld for all the baptysme styll oute of the state of grace or ellys muste Tyndale say that saynt Poule sayed vntrew in thaâ— he tolde the Hebrues that wythout fayth it is impossyble to please god Besydes thys yf habytuall fayth be no fayth at all for lacke of actuall thynkynge theruppon than dyeth euery man out of the fayth that happeth to dye in hys slepe had he neuer so good and greate actuall â—ayth when he went to bedde For no man shall be saued for the fayth that he onys had but for the fayth that he hath and in whyche hâ— dyeth Therfore the trouth is that the habytuall bylyefe is in the chylde very bylyefe though it be not actuall byleuyng and thynkynge vppon the fayth as the habytuall reason is in the chylde very reason though it be not actuall reasonynge and makynge of â—yllogysmys and thenne it is as I saye no story â—ayth therfore by Tyndals tale none other then very felynge fayth syth he putteth no mo kyndes of fayth nor none other â—ayth for suâ—â—ycyent goddes wurke is so perfyte that he infoundeth in the baptysme none suffycyent fayth How be it though thys be the trouth that the habytuall fayth is very fayth and infounded by god wyth the sacrament of baptysme into euery chyld and so that euery chyld hath therby the felyng faith yf Tindale tell vs trew yet to put out all argument I shall shortely strayne Tyndale to grauÌ„t a farther thynge or ellys to forsake his mayster For ye shall vnderstande that though the chyrche teaâ—heth that the habytull fayth is in the chyldren suffycyent yet cometh Tyndales mayster Martyn Luther and in his boke that he makeâ—h agaynst the Anabaptistes he teacheth by a longe processe that the yonge chyldren haâ—e â—â—founded the very actuall fayth in dede And therfore Tyndale that is his scoler maye not denye but that crystened chyldren haue very fayth then syth not hystorycall for lakke of redynge of storyes they muste nedes haue by Tyndales tale the felynge fayth Now yâ— wyll aske peraduenture what then and wherfore I go aboute
sayth that Cryst spake there of hym that hath wrong done to hym sylfe as thoughe Cryste ment of no mo but wolde onely sende hym that had wronge to complayne to the chyrche for his recompense But me thynketh surely that yf Barons take it thus he taketh it wronge For I say y t though Cryste doth not so forbyd the man that is wronged to complayne that it were alwaye dedely synne for hym to complayne yet he rather counsayleth hym to bere that wrong and pacyentely suffer it than to complayne vppon hys brother for it And therfore I say that Cryst here playnely speketh of euery man that secretely fyndeth hys brother that is to wytte any other man in any dedely poynt of false bylyefe or synfull lyuyng though the party that fyndeth hym therwyth haue neyther harme therby in body nor goodes nor good name ye though he myghte by the man whome he so fyndeth in suche a faute haue great aduauntage temporall to do no more but wynke therat and fynde no faute therin thys man I say yf he be good is for all that offended by hym that suche euyll dothe or sayth in that for the vnyte of cheryte bytwene all chrysten brothern he can not but be greued wyth hys chrysten brothers euyll For as saynt Poule sayth If one member taketh hurte all the meÌ„bers be greued therwyth And therfore in euery suche case dothe Cryste there sende hym that wythoute any worldely wronge done to hym selfe is in suche wyse offended by the faute and synne that he seeth in hys neyghbour hym I say sendeth Cryst vnto the chyrche to complayne and not hym specyally from whom hys neyghbour hath any thynge taken whyche thynge well appereth by the wordes of Cryste where he sayeth If he here the than haste thou wonne agayne thy brother he sayeth not than haste thou gotten agayne thy good Now frere Barns in one of the artycles whychâ— was layed agaynste hym at hys abiuracyon had preched suche wordes that the thynge whyche he sayeth here that Cryste playnely ment he semeth there to take for dedely synne not in hym onely that seweth whan he is wroÌ„ged but ouer that in the lawyers that were of hys counsayle and the iudges to and in the makâ—rs of the lawes also For there as hym selfe reherseth hys artycle these were hys wordes All these â—â—â—es and all these lawyers and all these iusticiarys that say a man may lawfully asks hys owne good â—fore a iudge and coÌ„tende in iudgement haue destroyed all pacyence deuocyon and fayth in chrysten people Surely yf Barns wordes were trewe than do all these folke an hygh dedely synne and such a synne as there can of none other come any more hurte I trow But I am sure hys artycle as hym self reherseth it wyll neuer be defended wyth all that euer he bryngeth for it nor all y t euer he maye brynge forth bysyde But lettyng the remanaunt passe tyll some other tyme hym selfe there reherseth amonge other thynges that mayster doctour wulman layed agaynst hym these wordes that we be in hand wyth here If thy brother offende the complayne vnto the chyrche And therto sayth Barns I answere that this place made not for sâ—wynge at the law alledgyng saynt Aâ— stayne fâ—r me for it speketh of the crymes that sholde be reproued by the congregacyon and not of the correccyon of the temporall sworde For it foloweth yf he here not the chyrche take hym as an hethen or a publycane This is the vttermâ—st payne that our mayster Cryste assygneth there the whyche is no payne of the temporall law Now good reders consyder well that answere that hym selfe sayth he there made vnto mayster wulman coÌ„cernyng those wordes of the gospell If thy brother offende the complayne vnto the chyrche and than consyder therwyth thys exposycyon of hys with whych he wold glose the same wordes here to auoyde that the very catholyke chyrche shollde be no knowen chyrcher Fyrst it is not vnknowen that frere Barons hath in mo places than one declared hys opynyon playnely â—y whyche he wolde that the chyrche as he meneth here whyle he maketh a dysticcyon bytwene it and the temporall court shold haue no iurysdyccyon at all And now hâ— is content that they must haue a court for the reprouynge of certayne crymys excepte he be so madde as to mene here that the partye wronged shold no thyng ellys but make some wonderyng vpon hys aduersary in the market place without any court or iudge Now in this hys exposycyon here he restrayneth it onely to the complaynt of hym that is wronged and so wyll that no man shall any thynge complayne vnto the chyrche but onely of his own wronges done vnto hym selfe where as the order of charyte wolde rather that a man shall neglecte his owne wronges in the complaynte wherof may be suspycyon of angre or auaryce and complayne to the chyrche vppon other mennis wronges wherunto he were lykely to be moued onely of charyte Also what crymes be there wherewyth a man maye be wronged that the chyrche of god doth not reproue More ouer yf Cryste here speke specyally of hym that is wronged and specyally byddeth hym go complayne to the chyrche he semeth to sende hym for the redresse and recompence of his wronges And therfore when all his whole tale of his exposycyon here and his answere there is set to gether yt amounteth vnto no more but that who so euer is wronged by a nother he may lawfully complayne to the spyrituall court but not to the temporall courte and why so now mary sayth Barons bycause that in the spyrytuall courte the partye that offendeth shall but haue his cryme reproued but in the temporall courte he shale fall vnder the temporall sword Frere Barons meaneth not here I trow that vppon euery complaynt made and proued in the temporal court the party that hath wronged his neyghbuor shall haue his hedde â—tryken of Nowe the reprouynge that the chyrche reproueth yf the party that haue done the wronge when is reproued therof sette not therby is ye wote well in conclusyon to be excommunycate out of â—he chrysten company and taken as a noughty wreche and a very paynym whyche payne is amonge good crysten people more daungerouse and ferefull then tâ— be compelled to make the party greued a ryghte great aâ—endes namely syth oure lorde sayth forthwyth theruppon that the sentence of thâ—rche in erth shal be confermed in heuen And therfore what so euer Barons say yf any man sew a nother vppon any gredy couetyce of worldely goodes though yt be the getynge agayne of his owne or of any anger or other corrupt effeccyon whether he sew in spyrituall courte oâ— temporall in his owne mater or any mannys elles he dothe offende god and synne more or lesse after the qualytes and cyrcumstaunces of his owne mynde and of the tyme and the place and the mater And who so euer on the tother syde complayn and sew of good mynde
water thorow the word of lyfe to make her to hym selfe wythout spotte or wryncle or any such thyng but that she myghte be holy and wythout blame Uppon whyche wordes Barns there sayth here haue you lo the very trewe chyrche of Cryst that is so pure and clene that she neyther hath spotte nor wryncle which wordes of saynt Poule as I partely told hym there proue no thynge hys purpose For saynt Poule sayeth there but that Cryste gaue hym selfe to make her such and sayth not that he shall make euery parte of her such nor saue in heueÌ„ all that he hath sanctyfyed in baptysme But lyke wyse as though god wolde euery man were saued whych is to wyt yf euery man so wolde hym selfe â— yet bycause many men of theyr owne frowardnesse wyll walke to daÌ„pnacyon whom god wyll not wrestle wyth to saue them spyght of theyr teth bycause he consydereth that he is of hym selfe able to lyue wythout them so though he haue gyuen hym selfe for hys chyrch to make her gloryouse wythout spotte or wryncle wolde haue euery man come and be part of hys chyrch and in her to be sauedâ— and of her by hym to lerne the trouth for he wolde sayth thapostle euery man sholde be saued come to the knowledge of the trouth yet as many men wyll neuer come into her as Iewys Turkes and Sarasyns and many y â— haue comeÌ„ in to her haue agayne gone froÌ„ her as haue Luther Huyskyn Suinglius Lamkert Huchyn and Barons and many great heretyâ—ues mo so many a man that abydeth in her tyll his dyenge day and byleueth her trewe doctryne yet bycause he wyll but byleue yt and not in well workynge folowe yt but wyll wythout dew repentaunce dye in dedely synne he departeth from herâ— at his deth as an vncurable roten member easte out in conclusyon vppon the dyuyls dounghyll in hell And those members of the chyrche that wyll worke well and not remayne wyth frere Barons in fayth alone god shall make theym gloryouse wythoute spot or wryncle But as saynte Austayne sayth here though at theyr instante prayour he goth styll aboute yt here alway when they pray therfore he is in doyng of yt alway washyng and alway stretchyng yet parte for intermyssyon of theyr prayeng part for they re contynuall new bespottynge and wrynclynge he neuer endeth yt here byfore theyr dyeng day so that the very chyrch is here in erth not euen in the very beste men therof pure clene alway wythout eyther spotte or wryncle as agaynste sayâ—te Austaynes wordes here Barns bosteth hym selfe to proue by those wordes of the apostle and as though he had clerely proued yt â—ayth Here haue you lo the very trew chyrch of Crist that is so pure and so clene that yt neyther hath spot nor wryncle But now is yt a world to se how Barns after this boste in that place endeth now saynte Anstaynes wordes wyth the clene contrary sentence agaynste his owne parte and concludeth all the whole mater quyte agaynst hym selfe â— vtterly destroyeth his owne chyrche and wenynge that pullynge downe were settynge vp bosteth as myche therof to For in the ende lo thus he sayth And therfore here dâ—â—â—e not lyue wythout synne but we shall passe from hense wythout synne c. Lo these wordes are Barons owne so wryten as thought they were saynt Austaynes own wyth c. And then he bryngeth in vppon them after his owne c. these wordes folowyng Here haue you clerely that the chyrche oâ— god is clensed and puryfyed by Cryste for knowledgyng of her synnes But lettynge passe that saynte Austayne sayth not that the whole chyrche of Cryste here passeth heâ—se withoute synne nor that euery man that ones is of his chyrch here shall after be of his chyrche in heuen let vs take frere Barons owne wordes as though they were as he wolde haue them seme the very wordes of saynt Austayne hym selfe and that they were none other wyse ment neyther by saynt Austayne then Barns wolde haue theym taken let vs now se then fyrste what sayth here frere Barons and then what sayth saynt frere Austayne Barns Fyrst frere Barons bosteth and sayth Here haue you clerely that the chyrche of god is clenâ—ed and puryfyed by Cryste for knowledgynge of his synnes But then aske we frere Barns of whych chyrch is our questyon Of the chyrch of Cryst here in erth or of the chyrche of Cryste in heuen To this frere Barns muste nedes graunte that all our mater of the chyrch betwene hym and vs is of the chyrche of Criste here in erthe Then wyll we aske hym whyther our mater be of men lyuynge or of men dyenge And syth we speke of the chyrch for the doctryne of the chyrche I suppose that frere Barns wyll graunt that he speketh of the chyrch as the men be lyuyng quycke and quethynge whyle they may speke and talke and confesse what they byleue and meaneth not to speke of theym onely whyle they lye a dyenge spechelesse and geuynge vp the goost well then ye perceyue nowe what frere Barons sayth and of whyche chyrche he bosâ—eth when he sayth Here you se clerely that god clenseth and purifyeth his chyrch for knowledging of her synnes And whyche chyrche yt is that he sayth is clene and pure wythout spot or wryncle you se that he meaneth the very chyrch here in erth lyuynge and in good helth of whyche men haue the trew doctryne bycause that y e very chyrch is yt he sayth that can not erre Now syth we se what sayth frere Barns let vs now se what sayth frere saynt Austayne Barns He sayth ye wote wel that y e chyrch shal passe hense wythout synne and that yt is in the treasours of god wythout spot or wryncle but he sayth y â— yt lyueth not here wythoute synne Lo good crysten reders where sawe you euer any man geue him self so fowle a fal as frere Barns hath here done whyche goynge about to proue vs that the chyrch of Cryst lyuynge here in erth is a company all holy pure and clene without spot or wryncle of synne bryngeth in for him saint Austayne whose wordes altered and framed by frere Barons after his owne fashyon playnely declare shew that the chyrch of Cryst whyle yt lyueth in erth lyueth not withoute synne and therfore is neuer pure and clene wythoute spottes or wryncles of synne And thus were as Barns sayd in y e begynnyng that he wold bryng in saynt Austayne to proue his purpose playn he semeth rather to brynge saynte Austayne in wyth playn wordes to proue frere Barns a fole specyally syth he seeth not yet what a fowle fall he hath but whyle he lyeth in the myre all to tumbled in dyrte holdeth vppe his fowle sleue and bosteth what a clenly cote he hath so pure and so clene wythout spot or wryncle that saynte Peter could not fynd one droppe of durte theron But now that
sonne beame frome the whole body of the sonne the vnyte of the lyghte receyueth no dyuysyon Breke of a braunche from a tree and as soone as it is ones brokeÌ„ of it can not any more budde Cut awaye a ryuer from the heed and anone it dryeth vp By these wordes of Cypryan we perceyue that y â— lyght receyueth no dyuisyoÌ„ in the holy men that are predestynate vnto the kyngdome of god whyche can in no maner wyse be dyuyded from the chyrch And â—hat the braunche broken of from the tree can no lenger budde we vnderstande it of the buddyng of the euerlastynge lyfe And the dryeng vp of the ryuer that is cut of from the cundytte heed in this wyse vnderstand we that they are voyde and empty of the holy goste that are deuyded from the vnyte The felowshyp of the sayntes that is to say let vs holde our selfe in the coÌ„munyon felowshyp of hope wyth those sayntes whych are deceaced in thys fayth whyche we haue receyued Therfore yf we wyll haue felowshyppe wyth the sayntes in the euerlastyng lyfe let vs thynke vpon the folowyng of them For they must recognyse fynde iÌ„ vs some what of theyr vertues to th entent they may voucesaufe to pray for vs vnto our lord For yf we can not beare the tormentes whyche the sayntes suffred euyn to the death yet at the leste wyse lette vs by theyr prayour and interceâ—syoÌ„s fyghte agaynst concupyscences For neyther Abraam nor Isaac nor Iacob were put to death and yet by the merites of fayth and iustyce they deserued to be chyâ—fly honoured amonge the patryarkes To whose feast is gathered euery man that is founde faythfull ryghteouse laudable And therfore my derest bretherne all though we suffer no suche thynge no bondes no strypes no presonment none other bodyly tormeÌ„tes nor no persecucyon of men for ryghteousnes sake yet we maye be able to obteyne the felowshyp of the sayntes yf we labour to chastyce our body make it subiect yf we accustome our seluys to pray vnto our lord with an humble spyryte and a coÌ„tryte soule yf we endeuour our selfe to take wyth a peaceable mynde the spyghtes that are done vnto vs by our neyghbour yf we coÌ„tende and stryue wyth our selfe to loue those that hate vs and do vs wrong to do them good and to pray gladly for theyr lyfe well fare and to be wyth the vertue of pacyence and the frutes of good workes garnysshed made gaye For yf our conuersacyoÌ„ be such yf we also accordyng to the sayeng of y â— apostle exhibyte our bodyes a lyuely hoost holy pleasauÌ„â— vnto god we shal be gyfted wyth y â— heueÌ„ly honour that we may be in one glory rewarded wyth them y t for our lordes sake gaue theyr meÌ„bres to the deth For lyke wyse as theyr deth is precyouse in the syghte of our lorde so let our lyfe be to than shall we be worthy also to entre into the. place of the cytye aboue and amonge the companyes of the blessed martyrs to render vnto oure redemer the vowys of thankes Lo here haue ye herde good chrysten reders how saynte Austayn vnderstandeth and expowneth both sanctam ecclaesiaÌ„ catholicam the holy catholyke chyrche and also sanctâ—rum communionem the coÌ„munyon or felesshyppe of sayntes wherby frere Barns maye se that yf he byleue saynt Austayn as he wold seme to do thaÌ„ is his owne fonde imagynacyoÌ„ quayled by whyche he divyneth after hys dyuynite that these wordes sanctorum communioneÌ„ do sharpely prycke y e clergye as he sayth after in an other place in thys maner Barns That chyrche that can not erre is all onely the vniuersall chyrche whych is called the communyon and felyshyppe of sayntes the whyche addycyon was made by holy fathers for in saynt Cyprianes tyme was there no mencyoÌ„ of it by all lykelyhed to declare the presumpcyon of certayne men and of certayne congregacyons that rekened them selfe to be holy chyrch wherfore my lordes se well to leste the holy goste haue prycked you with thys addycyon For you haue alwayes made your selfe the holy chyrche ye and that without any holynesse More If there hath neuer bene any holynesse at all in all the whole spyrytualtye than were those holy fathers y â— Barns sayth added in the crede sanctorum coÌ„munioneÌ„ some holy carnall fathers well be it so than for Barons sake But I dare saye they were none suche fathers as father frere Luther is as father frere Huyskyn is that byget chyldren by nonnes But thys suffyseth here agaynst frere Barns that ye perceyue by saynt Austayn here that frere Barns fonde inuencyon is fayled By these wordes of saynt Austayne ye se also that frere Barns in hys gay bable wherwyth he wolde make men by leue that the chyrche can not be the chyrche but yf it suffre persecucyon and that no man myghte come to heuen nor be a trewe chrysten man but yf he were persecuted here lo good reders besydes that it is a greate persecucyon vnto the chyrche and a ryghte greate gryefe and heuynesse to se so many of her membres waxe so roten and fall away from her body by the incurable canker of these false feâ—tered heresyes and that it is also sore persecuted bothe in body and goodes by these false heretyques in dyuers partes of Almayne yet se you ferther here in the fore rehersed wordes the thynge that I tolde you before that as for persecucyon it suffyseth to suffre it whaÌ„ it is of necessyte put vnto them and men neyther bounden to go seke it nor so to suffer euyl folke amonge them selfe that the contagyon of a few maye corrupte a great many whyche growen onys in great nomber may fall vnto rebellyon and persecute all the cuntrey For saynt Austayn sheweth here well and clerely that with out persecucyon yf we haue as wolde god we had so plentuousely as our parte were to haue such good cherytable wurkes wyth the catholyke fayth as hym selfe reherseth we may be good chrysten men and membres not onely of the very chyrche here in erth whyche we maye be by communyon of fayth though good wurkes want but also of y e very chyrche in heuen More ouer good chrysten readers ye se that saynt Austayne in these wordes doth playnely shew that the sayntes whyche are all redy in heuen do praye for vs that are here in erthe whyche thynge these heretyques wyll in no wyse agre Here se you also that these wordes sanctam ecclaesiam catholicaÌ„ by whyche frere Barns wolde make vs wene that the holy catholyke chyrche were a secrete vnknowen chyrche scatered about the worlde saynâ— Austayn well and playnely declareth yf we consyder well hys wordes that it must nedes be thys comune knowen catholyke chyrche But now that I haue playnely confuted frere Barons by saynte Austayne hym selfe whose order and rule frere Barns professed and whose wordes he so often alledgeth for hys purpose