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A09453 A reformed Catholike: or, A declaration shewing how neere we may come to the present Church of Rome in sundrie points of religion: and vvherein we must for euer depart from them with an advertisment to all fauourers of the Romane religion, shewing that the said religion is against the Catholike principles and grounds of the catechisme. Perkins, William, 1558-1602. 1598 (1598) STC 19736; ESTC S114478 146,915 390

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eate the bread and drinke the wine that he might with his own person consecrate his last supper as he had consecrated baptisme before And if these wordes should be properly vnderstood euery man must be a manslaier in his eating of Christ. Lastly by meanes of popish reall presence it comes to passe that our bodies should be nourished by naked qualities without any substance which in all philosophie is false and erronious To helpe this the like absurdities some Papists make nine wonders in the sacrament The first that Christs bodie is in the Eucharist in as large a quantitie as he was upon the crosse and is now in heauen and yet exceedes not the quantitie of the bread The second that there be accidents without a subiect The third that bread is turned into the bodie of Christ and yet is not the matter of the bodie nor resolued to nothing The fourth that the body increaseth not by consecration of many hosts and is not diminished by often receiuing The fifth that the bodie of Christ is vnder many consecrated hosts The sixt that when the host is diuided the bodie of Christ is not diuided but vnder euery part thereof is vvhole Christ. The seauenth that when the priest holds the host in his hand the bodie of Christ is not felt by it selfe nor seene but the formes of bread and vvine The eight that vvhen the formes of bread and wine cease the bodie and bloode of Christ ceaseth also to be there The ninth that the accidents of bread and wine haue the same effects vvith the bread and vvine it selfe vvhich are to nourish and fill On this manner it shall be easie for any man to defend the most absurd opinion that is or can be if he may haue libertie to answer the arguments alledged to the contrary by wonders To conclude seeing there is a reall communion in the sacrament betweene Christ and euery beleeuing heart our dutie therefore is to bestow our hearts on Christ endeauouring to loue him and to reioyce in him and to long after him aboue all things all our affiance must be in him with him wee beeing nowe on earth must haue our conuersation in heauen And this is the true reall presence which the auncient Church of God hath commended vnto vs for in all these liturgies these wordes were vsed and are yet extant in the popish masse Lift vp your hearts we lift them vp vnto the Lord. By which wordes the communicants were admonished to direct their mindes and their faith to Christ sitting at the right hand of God Thus saide Augustine If vve celebrate the ascension of the Lord vvith deuotion let vs ascend vvith him and lift vp our hearts Againe they vvhich are alreadie risen with Christ in faith and hope are inuited to the great table of heauen to the table of Angels VVHERE IS THE BREAD The eleuenth point Of the sacrifice in the Lords Supper which the Papists call the sacrifice of the Masse Touching this point first I will set downe what must be vnderstoode by the name Sacrifice A sacrifice is taken properly or improperly Properly it is a sacred or solemne action in which man offereth and consecrateth some outward bodily thing vnto God for this end to please and honour him thereby Thus al the sacrifices of the old testament and the oblation of Christ vpon the crosse in the new Testament are sacrifices Improperly that is onely by the way of resemblance the duties of the morall lawe are called sacrifices And in handling this question I vnderstande a sacrifice both properly and improperly by way of resemblance Our consent Our consent I propound in two conclusions Conclus I. That the supper of the Lord is a sacrifice and may truly be so called as it hath bin in former ages that in three respects I. Because it is a memoriall of the reall sacrifice of Christ vpon the crosse and containes withall a thanksgiuing to God for the same which thanksgiuing is the sacrifice and calves of our lips Hebr. 13. 15. II. Because euery communicant doth there present himselfe bodie and soule a liuing holy and acceptable sacrifice vnto God For as in this sacrament God giues vnto vs Christ with his benefits so we answerable giue vp our selues vnto God as seruants to walk in the practise of all dutifull obedience III. It is called a sacrifice in respect of that which was ioyned with the sacrament namely the Almes giuen to the poore as a testimonie of our thankefulnes vnto God And in this regard also the ancient Fathers haue called the sacrament an vnbloodie sacrifice and the table an altar the ministers priests and the whole action an oblation not to God but to the congregation not by the priest alone but by the people A Canon of a certaine Council saith We decree that euery Lords day the oblation of the altar be offered of euery man and woman both for bread and wine And Augustine saith that vvomen offer a sacrifice at the altar of the Lord that it might be offered by the priest to God And vsually in ancient writers the communion of the whole bodie of the congregation is called the sacrifice or oblation Conclus II. That the very bodie of Christ is offered in the Lordes Supper For as we take the bread to be the bodie of Christ sacramentally by resemblance and no otherwise so the breaking of bread is sacramentally the sacrificing or offering of Christ vpon the crosse And thus the fathers haue tearmed the Eucharist an immolation of Christ because it is a cōmemoration of his sacrifice vpon the crosse Aug. Epist. 23. Neither doth he lie which saith Christ was offered For if sacraments had not the resemblāce of things whereof they are sacraments they should in no vvise be sacraments but from a resemblance they often take their names Againe Christ is sacrificed in the last supper in regard of the faith of the cōmmunicants which makes a thing past and done as present Augustine saith When we beleeue in Christ he is offered for vs daily And Christ is then slaine for euery one vvhen he beleeues that he is slaine for him Ambrose saith Christ is sacrificed daily in the mindes of beleeuers as vpon an altar Hierome saith He is alwaies offered to the beleeuers II. The difference They make the Eucharist to be a reall externall or bodily sacrifice offered vnto God holding and teaching that the minister is a priest properly and that in this sacrament he offers Christs bodie and blood to God the father really and properly vnder the formes of bread and wine We acknowledge no reall outward or bodily sacrifice for the remission of sinnes but onely Christs oblation on the crosse once offered Here is the maine difference betweene vs touching this point and it is of that waight and moment that they stiffely maintaining their opinion as they doe can be no Church of God For this point raseth the
bodie without which a bodie can not be 4 In the Creede we confesse that Christ is ascended into heauen and there after his ascension sits at the right hand of his Father and that according to his manhoode Hence I conclude that Christs bodie is not really and locally in the Sacrament and in euerie Host which the priest consecrateth This argument was good when Vigilius against Eutyches said Whē it the flesh was on earth it was not in heauen and because it is now in heauen it is not on earth and he addes afterward that this is the Catholike faith confession And it was good when Fulgenti●s saide According to his humane substance he was absent from earth when he vvas in heauen and he left the earth vvhen he ascended into heauen And The same in seperable Christ according to his whole manhood LEAVING THE EARTH locally ascended into heauen and sits at the right hand and according to the same whole manhoode he is to come to iudgement And it was good when Cyril said No man doubts but that when he ascended into heauen though he be alwaies present by the power of his spirit HE VVAS ABSENT IN RESPECT OF THE PRESENCE O● HIS FLESH And it was good when Augustine said According to the flesh which the Word assumed he ascended into heauen HE IS NOT HERE there he sits at the right hand of the father and he is here according to the presence of his maiestie And He went as he was man and he aboad as he vvas God he went by that whereby he was in one place he aboad by that whereby he was euery where 5 Again in that we beleeue the Catholike church it follows that the Catholike church is inuisible because things seene are not beleeued And the answer commonly vsed that we beleeue the holines of the Church will not serue the turne For the words are plain and in them we make confession that we beleeue not onely the holines of the church but also the church it selfe 6 Lastly the articles Remission of sinnes Resurrection of the bodie and Life euerlasting containe a confession of speciall faith For the meaning of them is thus much I beleeue the remission of mine owne sinnes and the resurrection of mine owne bodie to life euerlasting and that by the iudgement of learned Antiquity Augustine saith If thou also beleeue that thou shalt rise againe and ascend into heauen because thou art sure of so great a patrone thou art certen of so great a gift And Make not Christ lesse who brings thee to the kingdome of heauen for remission of sinnes Without this faith if any come to baptisme he shuts the gate of mercie against himselfe And Whosoeuer faithfully beleeueth and holdes this profession of his faith in vvhich all his sinnes are forgiuen him let him prepare his will to the wil of God and not feare his passage by death And The whole Sacrament of baptisme stands in this that we beleeue the resurrection of the bodie and remission of sinnes to be giuen vs of God And He gaue these kaies to the Church that whosoeuer in his Church should not beleeue his sinnes to be forgiuen they should not be forgiuen vnto him and whosoeuer beleeued and turned from them abiding in the lap of the said Church at length shalbe healed by faith and amendment of life And That vvhich thou hast heard to be fulfilled in the glorious resurrection of Christ beleeue that the very same shall be fulfilled in thee in the last iudgement and the resurrection of thy flesh shall restore thee for all eternitie For vnlesse thou shalt beleeue that thou art to be repaired by death thou canst not come to the reward of life eternall And in auncient time the article of the resurrection hath beene rehearsed on this manner The resurrection of THIS FLESH and the last applied vnto it TO EVERLASTING LIFE Hence then two maine opinions of the church of Rome are quite ouerthrowne one that we cannot by special faith be certen of the remission of our sinnes and the saluation of our soules the other that a man truly iustified may fall away and be damned Now this cannot be if the practise of the auncient Church be good which hath taught vs to beleeue euerlasting life ioyntly without remission of sinnes To come vnto the decalogue first of all it is a rule in expounding the seuerall commandements that where any vice is forbidden there the contrarie vertue is commaunded and all vertues of the same kind with all their causes occasions furtherances This rule is graunted of all and hence it followes that counsells of perfection if they haue in them any furtherance of vertue are inioyned in and by the law and therefore prescribe no state of perfection beyond the scope of the law Secondly the commandement Thou shalt not make to thy selfe any grauen image c. hath two seuerall parts The first forbiddes the making of carued or grauen images the second forbids the adoration of them Now the first part is notably expounded by Moses Deutr. 4. 16. Take good heede vnto your selves that ye corrupt not your selves and make you a grauen image or representation of any figure in the likenesse of male or female Marke the reason of this prohibition in the same place for saith he ye savv no image in the day the Lord spake vnto you in Horeb. and v. 15. Ye heard the voice of the vvordes but savv no similitude saue a voyce Now the reason beeing vnderstood of the image of God himselfe the prohibition must needes be so vnderstood Againe there is no question that God directs his commaundement against a sinne in speculation but against some common and wicked practise of the Iewes and that was to represent God himselfe in likenesses and bodily formes Esai 40. 18. And that was also the practise of the Gentiles that were farre more grosse in this kinde then the Iewes Rom. 1. 23. This then is plaine to any indifferent man that the first part of the commandement forbids the making of grauen images or likenesses of the true Iehova thus the Romane Catechisme vnderstands the wordes As for the second part it must be vnderstoode according to the meaning of the first and therefore it forbids vs to bowe downe to any image of God Hence then it followes that to worship God or Saints in or at images to worship images with religious worship is abhominable idolatrie And common reason might teach vs thus much For they that adore and worship the true God in images doe bind the presence of God his operation grace and his hearing of vs to certen things places signes to which he hath not bounde himselfe either by commaundement or promise and that is otherwise to worship God and to seeke for his blessings then he hath commanded himselfe to be worshipped or promised to heare vs. Vpon this ground is plainely ouerthrowne the excuse which they make that
that a man may be assured of his saluation by hope euen hence it followes that he may be vnfallibly assured thereof For the propertie of true and liuely hope is neuer to make a man ashamed Rom. 5. 5. And true hope followeth faith and euer presupposeth certenty of faith neither can any man truly hope for his saluation vnlesse by faith he be certenly assured thereof in some measure The popish doctors take exception to these reasons on this manner First they say it cannot be proued that a man is as certen of his saluation by faith as he is of the articles of the creed I answ First they proue thus much that we ought to be as certē of the one as of the other For looke what commandement we haue to beleeue the articles of our faith the like we haue inioyning vs to beleeue the pardon of our owne sinns as I haue proued Secondly these arguments prooue it to be the nature of essentiall propertie of faith as certenlie to assure man of his saluation as it doth assure him of the articles which he beleeueth And howesoeuer commonly men doe not beleeue their saluation as vnfallible as they doe their articles of faith yet some speciall men doe hauing Gods word applyed by the spirit as a sure ground of their faith whereby they beleeue their owne saluation as they haue it for a ground of the articles of their faith Thus certenly was Abraham assured of his owne saluation as also the Prophets and Apostles the martyrs of God in all ages wherevpon without doubting they haue bin content to lay downe their liues for the name of Christ in whome they were assured to receiue eternall happines And there is no question but there be many nowe that by long and often experience of Gods mercy and by the inward certificate of the ho● Ghost haue attained to a full assurance of their saluation II. Exception Howesoeuer a man may be assured of his present estate yet no man is certē of his perseuerance vnto the end Ans. It is otherwise for in the sixt petition lead vs not into temptation we praie that God would not suffer vs to be wholly ouercome of the deuill in any temptation and to this petition we haue a promise answerable 1. Cor. 10. That God with the temptation will giue an issue and therefore howsoeuer the deuill may buffit molest and wound the seruants of God yet shall he neuer be able to ouercome them Againe he that is once a member of Christ can neuer be wholly cut off And if any by sinne were wholly seuered from Christ for a time in his recouery he is to be baptised the second time for baptisme is the sacrament of initiation or ingrafting into Christ. By this reason we should as often be baptised as we fall into any sinn which is absurd Againe S. Iohn saith 1. Ioh. 2. 19. They went out from vs but they were not of vs for if they had beene of vs they would haue continued with vs. Where he taketh it for granted that such as be once in Christ shall neuer wholly be seuered or fall from him Though our communion with Christ may be lessened yet the vnion the bond of coniunction is neuer dissolued III. Exception They say we are indeede to beleeue our saluation on gods part but we must needs doubt in regard of our selues because the promises of remission of sinnes are giuen vpon condition of mans faith and repentance Now we cannot say they be assured that we haue true faith and repentance because we may lie in secret sinnes and so want that indeede which we suppose our selues to haue Ansvv. I say againe he that doth truly repent and beleeue doth by Gods grace know that he doth repent beleeue for els Paul would neuer haue said Proove your selues whither you be in the faith or not and the same Apostle saith 2. Cor. 12. We haue not receiued the spirit of the world but the spirit vvhich is of God that we might KNOVV THE THINGS VVHICH ARE GIVEN OF GOD which things are not onely life euerlasting but iustification sanctification and such like And as for secret sinnes they cannot make our repentance voide for he that truly repenteth of his knowne sinnes repenteth also of such as be vnknowne and receiueth the pardon of them all God requireth not an expresse or speciall repentance of vnknowne sinnes but accepts it as sufficient if we repent of them generally as Dauid saith Psal. 19. Who knowes the errours of this life forgiue me my secret sinnes And whereas they adde that faith and repentance must be sufficient I answer that the sufficiencie of our faith and repentance standes in the truth and not in the measure or perfection therof and the truth of both where they are is certenly discerned Reason VI. The iudgement of the auncient Church August Of an euill seruant thou art made a good childe therefore PRESVME not of thine ovvne doing but of the grace of Christ it is not arrogācy BVT FAITH to acknowledge what thou hast receiued is not pride but deuotion And Let no man aske an other man but returne to his owne heart if he finde charitie there he HATH SECVRITIE for his passage from life to death Hilar. on Math. 5. The kingdome of heauen vvhich our Lord professed to be in himselfe his vvillis that it must be hoped for VVITHOVT ANY DOVBTFVLNES OF VNCERTEN VVIL Otherwise there is no iustification by faith if faith it selfe be MADE DOVBTFVLL Bernard epist. 107. Who is the iust man but he that beeing loued of God loues him againe vvhich comes not to passe but by the SPIRIT REVEALING BY FAITH the eternall PVRPOSE OF GOD of his SALVATION to come Which reuelation is nothing els but the infusion of spirituall grace by which when the deedes of the flesh are mortified the man is prepared to the kingdome of heauen Togither receiuing in one spirit that whereby he MAY PRESVME that he is loued and also loue againe To conclude the Papists haue no great cause to dissent from vs in this point For they teach and professe that they doe by a speciall faith beleeue their owne saluation certenly and vnfallibly in respect of God that promiseth Now the thing which hindereth them is their owne indisposition and vnworthines as they say which keepes them from beeing certen otherwise then in a likely hope But this hindrance is easily remooued if men will iudge indifferently For first of all in regard of our selues and our disposition we cannot be certen at all but must despaire of saluation euen to the very death We cannot be sufficiently disposed so long as we liue in this world but must alwaies say with Iacob I am lesse then all thy mercies Gen. 32. and with Dauid Enter not into iudgement vvith thy seruant O Lord for none liuing shall be iustified in thy sight and with the Centurion Lord I am not worthie that thou shouldest come vnder my roofe Matth.
there is a reall vnion and consequently a reall communion betweene vs and Christ as I haue prooued there must needes be such a kinde of presence wherein Christ is truly and really present to the heart of him that receiues the sacrament in faith And thus farre doe we consent with the Romish Church touching reall presence The dissent We differ not touching the presence it selfe but onely in the maner of presence For though we hold a reall presence of Christs bodie and bloode in the sacrament yet doe we not take it to be locall bodily or substantiall but spirituall and mysticall to the signes by sacramentall relation and to the communicants by faith alone On the contrarie the Church of Rome maintaines transubstantiation that is a locall bodily and substantiall presence of Christs bodie and bloode by a chaunge and conuersion of the bread and wine into the saide bodie and blood Our reasons I. This corporall presence ouerturnes sundrie articles of faith For we beleeue that the bodie of Christ was made of the pure substance of the virgin Marie and that but once namely when he was conceiued by the holy Ghost and borne But this cannot stand if the body of Christ be made of bread and his blood of wine as they must needes be if there be no succession or annihilation but a reall conuersion of substances in the sacrament vnlesse we must beleeue contrarieties that his bodie was made of the substance of the Virgin and not of the Virgin made once and not once but often Againe if his bodie blood be vnder the formes of bread and wine then is he not as yet ascended into heauen but remaines still among vs. Neither can he be saide to come from heauen at the day of iudgement for he that must come thence to iudge the quicke and dead must be absent from the earth And this was the auncient faith Augustine saith that Christ according to his maiestie and prouidence and grace is present with vs to the end of the world but according to his ASSVMED FLESH HE IS NOT alwaies with vs. Cyril saith He is ABSENT IN BODIE and present in vertue vvhereby all things are gouerned Vigilius saith That he is gone from vs according to his humanitie he hath left vs in his humanitie in the forme of a seruant absent from vs when his flesh was on earth it was not in heauen being on earth he was not in heauen and beeing now in heauen he is not on earth Fulgentius saith One and the same Christ according to his humane substance was absent from heauen vvhen he was on earth and LEFT THE EARTH when he ascended into heauen Reason II. This bodily presence ouerturnes the nature of a true bodie whose common nature or essentiall propertie it is to haue length breadth and thicknes which beeing taken away a bodie is no more a bodie And by reason of these three dimensions a bodie can occupie but one place at once as Aristotle said the propertie of a bodie is to be seated in some place so as a man may say where it is They therefore that holde the bodie of Christ to be in many places at once doe make it no bodie at all but rather a spirit and that infinite They alleadge that God is almightie that is true indeede but in this and like matters we must not dispute what God can do but what he wil do And I say further because God is omnipotent therefore there be some things which he cannot doe as for him to denie himselfe to lie and to make the parts of a contradiction to be both true at the same time To come to the point if God should make the very body of Christ to be in many places at once he should make it to be no bodie while it remaines a bodie and to be circumscribed in some one place and not circumscribed because it is in many places at the same time to be visible in heauen and inuisible in the sacrament and thus should he make contradictions to be true which to doe is against his nature and argues rather impotencie then power Augustine saith to this purpose If he could lie deceiue be deceiued deale vniustly he should not be omnipotent And Therefore he is omnipotent because he can not doe these things Againe He is called domnipotent by doing that which he will and not by doing that which he will not which if it should be fal him he should not be omnipotent Reason III. Transubstantiation ouerturnes the very Supper of the Lord. For in euery sacramēt there must be a signe a thing signified and a proportion or relation betweene them both But popish reall presence takes all away for when the bread is really turned into Christs body and the wine into his bloode then the signe is abolished and there remaines nothing but the outwarde formes or appearance of breade and wine Againe it abolisheth the endes of the sacrament whereof one is to remember Christ till his comming againe who beeing present in the sacrament bodily needes not to be remembred because helpes of remembrance are of things absent Another ende is to nourish the soule vnto eternall life but by transubstantiation the principal feeding is of the body and not of the soule which is onely fed with spiritual food for though the body may be bettered by the food of the soule yet cā not the soule be fed with bodily food Reason IV. In the sacrament the bodie of Christ is receiued as it was crucified and his blood as it was shedde vpon the crosse but nowe at this time Christs body crucified remaines still as a bodie but not as a bodie crucified because the act of crucifying is ceased Therefore it is faith alone that makes Christ crucified to be present vnto vs in the sacrament Again that blood which ran out of the feet and hands and side of Christ vpon the crosse was not gathered vp againe and put into the veines nay the collection was needelesse because after the resurrection he liued no more a naturall but a spirituall life and none knowes what is become of this blood The Papist therefore cannot say it is present vnder the forme of wine locally and we may better say it is receiued spiritually by faith whose property is to giue a beeing to things which are not Reason V. 1. Cor. 10. 3. The fathers of the olde testament did eate the same spirituall meat and drinke the same spirituall drinke for they dranke of the rocke which was Christ. Now they could not eate his body which was crucified or drinke his bloode shedde bodily but by faith because then his bodie and blood were not in nature The Papists make answer that the fathers did eat the same meate and drinke the same spirituall drinke with themselues not with vs. But their answer is against the text For the Apostles intent is to prooue that the Iewes were euery way equall to the Corinthians because
reuerence the giftes of God and that power which he hath placed in those that be his instruments And this kinde of worship is commanded onely in the second table in the first commandement thereof Honour thy father and mother Vpon this distinction we may iudge what honour is due to euery one Honour is to be giuen to God to whom he commandeth He commandeth that inferiours should honour or worship their betters Therfore the vnreasonable creatures among the rest images are not to be worshipped either with ciuill or religious worship beeing indeed far baser then man himselfe is Againe vncleane spirits the enemies of God must not be worshipped yea to honour them at all is to dishonour God Good angels because they excell men both in nature and gifts when they appeared were lawfully honoured yet so as when the least signification of honour was giuen that was proper to God they refused it And because they appeare not now as in former times not so much as ciuil adoration in any bodily gesture is to be done vnto them Lastly gouernours and Magistrates haue ciuill adoration as their due and it can not be omitted without offence Thus Abraham worshipped the Hittites Gen. 23. and Ioseph his brethren Gen. 50. To come to the very point vpon the former distinction we denie against the Papists that any civill worship in the bending of the knee or prostrating of the bodie is to be giuen to the Saints they being absent from vs much lesse any religious worship as namely Invocation signified by any bodily adoratiō For it is the very honour of God himselfe let them call it latria or doulia or by what name they will Our reasons Reason I. All true inuocation and praier made according to the will of God must haue a double foundation a commaundement and a promise A commaundement to mooue vs to pray and a promise to assure vs that we shall be heard For all and euery praier must be made in faith without a commaundement or promise there is no faith Vpon this vnfallible ground I conclude that we may not pray to Saints departed for in the Scripture there is no word either commaunding vs to praie vnto them or assuring vs that we shall be heard when wee praie Nay we are commanded onely to call vpon God Him onely shalt thou serue Matth. 4. 10. And How shall we call vpon him in whome we haue not beleeued Rom. 10. 14. And we haue no promise to be heard but for Christs sake Therefore praiers made to Saints departed are vnlawfull Answer is made that inuocation of Saints is warranted by miracles and reuelations which are answerable to commandements and promises Ansvv. But miracles and reuelations had an ende before this kind of inuocation tooke any place in the Church of God and that was about three hundred yeares after Christ. Againe to iudge of any point of doctrine by miracles is deceitfull vnlesse three things concurre the first is doctrine of faith and pietie to be confirmed the second is praier vnto God that some thing may be done for the ratifying of the saide doctrine the third is the manifest edification of the Church by the two former Where any of these three are wanting miracles may be suspected because otherwhiles false prophets haue their miracles to trie mē whether they wil cleaue vnto God or no. Deut. 13. 1 3. Againe miracles are not done or to be don for them that beleeue but for infidels that beleeue not as Paul saith 1. Cor. 14. 22. Tongues are a signe not to them that beleeue but to vnbeleeuers And to this agree Chrysostome Ambrose and Isidore who saith Behold a signe is not necessarie to beleeuers which haue alreadie beleeued but to infidels that they may be conuerted Lastly our faith is to be confirmed not by reuelations and apparitions of dead men but by the writings of the Apostles and prophets Luc. 16. 29. Reason II. To praie vnto Saints departed to bowe the knee vnto them while they are in heauen is to ascribe that vnto them which is proper to God himselfe namely to know the heart with the inward desires and motions thereof and to know the speaches and behauiours of all men in all places vpon earth at all times The Papists answer that Saints in heauen see and heare all things vpō earth not by themselues for that were to make them Gods but in God and in the glasse of the Trinitie in which they see mens praiers reuealed vnto them I answer first that the Saints are still made more then creatures because they are saide to knowe the thoughts and all the doings of all men at all times which no created power can well comprehend at once Secondly I answer that this glasse in which all things are saide to be seene is but a forgerie of mans braine and I prooue it thus The angels themselues who see further into God then men can doe neuer knew all things in God which I confirme on this manner In the temple vnder the lawe vpon the arke were placed two Cherubins signifying the good angels of God and they looked downward vpon the merciese at couering the arke which was a figure of Christ and their looking downeward figured their desire to see into the mystery of Christs incarnatiō our redemptiō by him as Peter alluding no doubt to this type in the olde Testament saith 1. Pet. 1. 12. which things the angels desired to behold and Paul saith Eph. 3. 10. The manifold wisdom of God is reuealed by the Church vnto principalities and powers in heauenly places that is to the angels but how and by what meanes by the Church and that two waies first by the Church as by an example in which the angels saw the endles wisdome and mercie of God in the calling of the Gentiles Secondly by the Church as it was founded honoured by the preaching of the Apostles For it seemes that the Apostolicall ministerie in the newe testament reuealed things touching Christ which the angels neuer knew before that time Thus Chrysostome vpon occasion of this text of Paul saith that the Angels learned some things by the preaching of Iohn Baptist. Againe Christ saith that they know not the houre of the last iudgement Math. 24. 23. much lesse doe the saints know all things in God And hence it is that they are saide to be vnder the altar where they crie How long Lord holy and true wilt thou not reuenge our bloode as beeing ignorant of the daie of their full deliuerance And the Iewes in affliction confesse Abraham was ignorant of them and their estate Isa. 63. v. 16. Reason III. Matth. 4. 10. Christ refused so much as to bow the knee to Sathan vpon this ground because it was written thou shalt worship the Lord thy God and him onely shalt thou serue Hence it was that Peter would not suffer Cornelius so much as to kneele vnto him though Cornelius intended not to honour him
as God Therfore neither Saint nor Angel is to be honoured so much as with the bowing of the knee if it carrie but the least signification of diuine or religious honour Reason IV. The iudgement of the auncient Church August We honour the Saints with charitie and not BY SERVITVDE neither doe vve erect Churches to them And Let it NOT BE RELIGION for vs to vvorship deade men And They are to be honoured for immitation and not to be adored for religion Epiphan Neither Tecla nor any Saint is to be ADORED for that auncient ERROVR may not ouerrule vs that vve should leaue the liuing God and adore things made by him Againe Let Marie be in honour let the Father Sonne and holy Ghost be adored let NONE ADORE MARIE I meane neither vvoman nor man Againe Marie is beautifull and holy and honoured yet NOT TO ADORATION Whē Iulian obiected to the Christians that they worshipped their Martyrs as God Cyril graunts the memorie and honour of them but denies their adoration and of inuocation he makes no mention at all Ambrose on Rom. 1. Is any SO MADDE that he vvill giue to the Earle the honour of the King yet these men doe not thinke them selues guiltie who giue the honour of Gods name to a creature and leauing the Lord ADORE THEIR FELLOVV SERVANTS as though there vvere any thing more reserued for God Obiections of Papists I. Gen. 48. 16. Let the angel that kept me blesse thy children Here say they it is a praier made to angels Ans. By the angel is meant Christ who is called the angel of the couenant Malac. 3. 1. and the angel that guided Israel in the wildernes 1. Cor. 10. 9. compared with Exod. 23. 20. Obiect II. Exod. 23. 13. Moses praieth that God would respect his people for Abrahams sake and for Isaac and Israel his seruants which were not then liuing Ans. Moses praieth God to be mercifull to the people not for the intercession of Abraham Isaac and Iacob but for his couenants sake which he had made with them Psal. 123. 10 11. Againe by popish doctrine the fathers departed knewe not the estate of men vpon earth neither did they pray for thē because then they were not in heauen but in Limbo patrum III. Obiect One liuing man makes intercession to God for another therefore much more doe the Saints in glorie that are filled with loue pray to God for vs and we pray to them no otherwise then we desire liuing men to pray for vs. Ans. The reason is naught for we haue a commandement one liuing man to pray for another and to desire others to pray for vs but there is no warrant in the word of God for vs to desire the praiers of men departed Secondly there is great difference betweene these two To request our friend either by word of mouth or by letter to pray for vs and by Inuocation to request them that are absent from vs and departed this life to pray for vs for this is indeede a worshippe in which is giuen vnto them a power to heare and helpe all that call vpon them at what place or time soeuer yea though they be not present in the place in which they are worshipped and consequently the seeing of the heart presence in all places an infinite power to helpe all that pray vnto them which things agree to no creature but God alone Thirdly when one liuing man requests an other to pray for him he onely makes him his companion and fellowe member in his prayer made in the name of one mediatour Christ but when men inuocate Saints in heauen they beeing then absent they make them more then fellowe members euen mediatours between Christ and them The XU. point Of intercession of saints Our consent Our consent with them I will set downe in two conclusions Conclus I. The saints departed pray vnto God by giuing thankes vnto him for their owne redemption and for the redemption of the whole Church of God vpon earth Rev. 5. 8. The foure beasts and the foure and twentie Elders fell dovvne before the lambe 9. and they song a new song Thou art worthie to take the booke and to open the seales thereof because thou wast killed and hast redeemed vs to God 13. And all the creatures which are in heauen heard I saying Praise and honour and glorie and povver be vnto him that sitteth vpon the throne and vnto the Lambe for euermore II. Conclus The Saints departed pray generally for the state of the whole Church Rev. 6. 9. And I savv vnder the Altar the soules of them that were killed for the vvord of God THEY CRIED 10. How lōg Lord holy and true dost thou not iudge and auenge our blood on them that dvvell on the earth whereby we see they desire a finall deliuerance of the Church and a destruction of the enemies thereof that they themselues with all the people of God might be aduanced to fulnesse of glorie in bodie and soule Yea the dumbe creatures Rom. 8. 23. are said to grone and sigh waiting for the adoption euen the redemption of our bodies much more then do the Saints in heauen desire the same And thus farre we consent The dissent or difference They holde and teach that the Saints in heauen as the virgin Marie Peter Paul c. doe make intercession to God for particalar men according to their seuerall wants and that hauing receiued particular mens praiers they present them vnto God But this doctrine we flatly renounce vpō these grounds and reasons I. Isai 63. 16. The church saith to God doubtles thou art our father though ABRAHAM BE IGNORANT of vs and Israel KNOVVE VS NOT. Now if Abraham knewe not his posteritie neither Marie nor Peter nor any other of the Saints departed knowe vs and our estate and consequently they cannot make any particular intercession for vs. If they say that Abraham Iacob were thē in Limho which they will haue to be a part of hell what ioye could Lazarus haue in Abrahams bosome Luc. 16. 25. and with what comfort could Iacob say on his death bed O Lord I haue waited for thy saluation Gen. 46. 18. II. Reason 2. King 22. 20. Huldah the prophetesse telleth Iosias he must be gathered to his fathers and put in his graue in peace that his eyes may not see all the euill which God would bring on this place Therefore the Saints departed see not the state of the Church on earth much lesse doe they knowe the thoughts and prayers of men This conclusion Augustine confirmeth at large III. Reason No creature Saint or angell can be a mediatour for vs to God sauing Christ alone who is indeede the onely Aduocate of his church For in a true and sufficient Mediatour there must be three properties First of all the worde of God must reueale and propound him vnto the Church that we may in conscience be assured that praying to him and to god in his name
we shall be heard Nowe there is no scripture that mentioneth either Saints or Angels as mediatour in our behalfe saue Christ alone Secondly a mediatour must be perfectly iust so as no sinne be found in him at all 1. Ioh. 2. 1. If any man sinne we haue an advocate with the father Iesus Christ THE RIGHTEOVS Now the Saints in heauen howsoeuer they be fully sanctified by Christ yet in themselues they were conceiued and borne in sinne and therefore must needes eternally stand before God by the mediation and merit of an other Thirdly a mediatour must be a propitiatour that is bring something to God that may appease and satisfie the wrath and iustice of God for our sinnes therefore Iohn addeth and he is a PROPITIATION for our sinnes But neither Saint nor Angel can satisfie for the least of our sinnes Christ onely is the propitiation for them all The virgin Marie and the rest of the Saints being sinners could not satisfie so much as for thēselues IV. Reason The iudgement of the church Augustine All Christian men commend each other in their prayers to God And vvho PRAIES FOR AL and for whom NONE PRAIES he is that one and true mediatour And This saith thy Sauiour thou hast NO VVHITHER to goe but to me thou hast NO VVAY to goe BVT BY ME. Chrysostome Thou hast NO NEED OF PATRONS to God or much discour se that thou shouldest sooth others but though thou be alone and want a patrone and by thy selfe pray vnto God thou shalt obtaine thy desire And on the saying of Iohn If any sinne c. Thy praiers haue no effect vnlesse they be such as THE LORD COMMENDS vnto thy Father And August on the same place hath these words He beeing such a man saide not ye have an Advocate but if any sinne vve haue he saide not ye haue neither said he YE HAVE ME. Obiections of Papists I. Rev. 5. 8 9. The foure and tvventie Elders fall downe before the lambe hauing euery one harpes and golden vyals full of odours vvhich are the prayers of the Saints Hence the Papists gather that the Saints in heauen receiue the praiers of men on earth and offer them vnto the Father Ansvv. There by prayers of the Saints are meant their owne prayers in which they sing prayses to God and to the lambe as the verses following plainely declare And these prayers are also presented vnto God onely from the hand of the angel which is Christ himselfe II. Obiect Luc. 16. 27. Diues in hell praieth for his brethren vpon earth much more doe the Saints in heauen pray for vs. Ans. Out of a parable nothing can be gathered but that which is agreable to the intent and scope thereof for by the same reason it may as well be gathered that the soule of Diues beeing in hell had a tongue Againe if it were true which they gather we may gather also that the wicked in hell haue compassion and loue to their brethren on earth and a zeale to Gods glory all which are false III. Obiect The angels in heauen know euery mans estate they know when any sinner repenteth and reioyceth thereat pray for particular men therefore the Saints in heauen doe the like for they are equall to the good angels Luc. 20 36. Ans. The place in Luke is to be vnderstood of the estate of holy men at the day of the last iudgement as appeares Matth. 22. 30. where it is saide that the seruants of God in the resurrection are as the angels in heauen Secondly they are like the angels not in office and ministerie by which they are ministring spirites for the good of men but they are like thē in glorie Secondly we dissent from the Papists because they are not content to say that the Saints departed pray for vs in particular but they adde further that they make intercession for vs by their merits in heauen New Iesuits denie this but let them heare Lumbard I thinke saith he speaking of one that is but of meane goodnes that he as it were passing by the fire shall be saued by the MERITS and intercessions of the heauenly Church vvhich doth alwaies make intercession for the faithfull by request and merit till Christ shall be compleate in his members And the Romane Catechisme saith as much Saints are so much the more to be worshipped and called vpon because they make prayers daily for the saluation of men and God for their merit and fauour bestowes many benefits upon vs. We denie not that men vpon earth haue helpe and benefit by the faith and pietie which the Saints departed shewed when they were in this life For God shewes mercy on them that keep his commandements to a thousand generations And Augustine saith it was good for the Iewes that they were loued of Moses whome God loued But we vtterly deny that we are helped by merits of Saints either liuing or departed For Saints in glory haue receiued the full reward of all their merits if they could merit and therefore there is nothing further that they can merit The sixteenth point Of implicite or infolded faith Our consent We holde that there is a kinde of implicite or vnexpressed faith yea that the faith of euery man in some part of his life as in the time of his first conuersion and in the time of some grieuous temptation or distresse is implicite or infoulded The Samaritans are said to beleeue Ioh 4. 14. because they took Christ for the Messias and therevpon were content to learne and obey the glad tidings of saluation And in the same place v. 51. the Ruler with his family is said to beleeve who did no more but generally acknowledge that Christ was the Messias yeelded himselfe to beleeue and obey his holy doctrine beeing mooued therevnto by a miracle wrought vpon his young sonne And Rahab Heb. 11. 13. is said to beleeue yea shee is commended for faith euen at the time when shee receiued the spies Nowe in the worde of God we cannot finde that shee had any more but a confused general or infoulded faith whereby shee beleeued that the God of the Hebrwes was the true God his word to be obeyed And this faith as it seemes was wrought by hir by the report and relatiō of the miracles done in the land of Egipt whereby shee was moued to ioyne hir selfe vnto the people of God and to beleeue as they did By these examples then it is manifest that in the very seruants of God there is and may be for a time an implicite faith For the better vnderstanding of this point it is to be considered that faith may be infolded two waies first in respect of knowledge of things to be beleeued secondly in respect of the apprehension of the obiect of faith namely Christ and his benefits Now faith is infolded in respect of knowledge when as sundry things that are necessarie to saluation are not as yet