the Saints and with the blood of the Martyrs of Jesus and when I saw her I wondred with great Admiration Child Doth this concern the Pope and Church of Rome Father Yes So the Angel interprets v. 9.18 The seven Heads are seven Mountains on which the Woman sitteth and the Woman which thou sawest is that great City which reigneth over the Kings of the Earth Child If this be the Pope and Church of Rome the Lord give me Grace to avoid Communion with them Father You say well for we have a command to that purpose Rev. 18.4 5. I heard a Voice from Heaven saying Come out of her my People that ye be not Partakers of her Sins and that ye receive not of her Plagues for her sins have reached unto Heaven and God hath remembred her Iniquities Child Is this the last Article of the Trent Creed Father No they have two more The thirteenth Article is also all and whatsoever other thing delivered by way of Tradition defined and declared by the holy Canons and the general Councils and chiefly by the sacred and holy Synod of Trent I undoubtedly receive and profess and together all contrary things and whatsoever Heresies damned rejected and accursed I also damn reject and accurse Child You have spoken something already of Tradition is there any thing more to be known Father Yes They make their unwritten Traditions and the Canons of their Councels equal to the word of God and necessary to Salvation Nay they make the Councel of Trent the only measure and rule of Faith in the Church of Rome Whereas on the contrary St. Paul instructs the Churches of Galathia Gal. 1.8 To measure their Faith by that Gospel only which from the Beginning they had receiv'd and was by himself preached unto them Child I pray Sir what is the last Article Father This true Catholick Faith without which no man can be saved which at this present I freely profess and truly hold I do promise vow and swear most constantly God assisting to retain and confess entire and inviolate to the very last gaspe of Life and to procure as much as shall lie in me that the same be held taught and preached by all my Inferiours and by those that are committed to my care and charge So God help me and those holy Gospels of God Child By this I perceive what is the Catholick Faith of the Church of Rome in the new Trent Creed or Gospel made 1500 years and more after the Death of Christ and imposed by the Pope upon his Subjects to be professed vowed sworn and maintained under Pain of eternal Damnation But can no man be saved without believing in this Creed Father So says the Pope he curses all that will not receive it But St. Paul declares him accursed Gal. 1.8 who preaches any other Gospel than that which he had preach'd unto them The Curse therefore will fall upon the Pope and his Priests except they can find a Priviledge greater than given to Apostles or Angels to make new Creeds and to preach new Gospels at Pleasure Child Do they baptize into this Creed Father No. All the Christian World have ever been baptized into the Faith of the old Creed never any that I heard of into the Faith of this new Creed If this were as needful to Salvation as the old they do men Wrong in Baptizing them but into one half of the Christian Faith therefore we are resolved to adhere to that Faith which hath been professed always every where and by all persons and particularly both by them and us at our Baptisms without Addition or Diminution This was their Faith formerly and is ours still The Result of all is this As the Sum of the Primitive Creed and Gospel is to believe in God so the sum of the Romish Creed is to believe in the Pope and as the rule of the Primitive Faith is the Word of God the holy Scriptures so the Rule of the Romish Faith is the word of man papal Definitions and as the end of the Primitive Faith is the charity of GOd to keep his commandments so the end of the Romish Faith is Slavery to man to uphold his Tyranny and maintain his Supremacy Remember therefore what the Lord Christ says to his Disciples Matt. 7.15 Beware of false Prophets which come to you in Sheeps clothing but inwardly they are ravening Wolves ye shall know them by their Fruits Math. 7.15 And that of the Apostle I know this that after my departing shall grievous Wolves enter in among you not sparing the Flock Also of your own selves shall men arise speaking perverse things to draw away Disciples after them Therefore watch and remember that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one Night and Day with Tears Act. 20.29 30 31. Child The Lord write your Words in my Heart and give me Grace to avoid these ravening Wolves that lie lurking in every Corner But I pray Sir having so well stablished strengthned and settled me in the Faith be pleased also to open to me the Rule of Life viz. the moral Law that I may not be insnared by the corrupt Glosses which I hear the Papists have put upon the holy Law of God And first I pray Sir what do they teach of the Law in general Father The Law as it is expounded by Christ Mat. 5. they say is a new Law far more perfect than the Law of Moses they say also that Christ delivereth new Divine Counsel to his Disciples which was not given in the Law or in the Prophets though Christ says Think not that I am come to destroy the Law or the Prophets I am not come to destroy but to fullfil Mat. 5.17 and Mat. 7.12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you do you even so to them for this is the Law and the Prophets Child What else do they teach concerning the Law Father They teach that 't is possible for a man to keep the whole Law of God and yet Solomon says Who can say I have made my Heart clean I am pure from my Sin Prov. 20.9 They have also a distinction of Venial and Mortal Sins some Sins they say are venial in their own Nature which if they were all together could not equal one mortal Sin nor destroy Charity And yet Jesus Christ says that every idle word that men shall speak they shall give account thereof in the day of Judgment Mat. 12.36 Child I pray Sir what Sins do they call Venial Sins Father Lying ordinary swearing by St. Mary or by the Mass and simple Fornication and such like and yet St. John says speaking of Heaven There shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth neither whatsoever worketh Abomination or maketh a Lie Revel 21.27 Child I have heard indeed that they are very loose in their Morals and I perceive this distinction of venial and mortal Sins was invented for this Purpose But I
and direct me in the way I ought to walk Child Do they pray also to the Saints Father Yes They have a patron Saint whose name they bear to whom they pray thus Glorious St. N. whom the divine Providence hath allotted for my Pattern upon Earth and my Patron in Heaven obtain I beseech you for me your poor Pupil so to imitate here your Virtues that I may hereafter be made Partaker of your Glory Nay they have a Saint to pray to for every Infirmity and Disease to St. Sebastian and St. Roch to cure the Plague to St. Petronilla for the Fever to St. Bennet to cure all Poyson to St. Apollonia for the Tooth-ach to St. Otilia for sore Eyes to St. Apollinaris for the French-Pox to St. Liberius for the Stone and to St. Felicitas for Barrenness in Women they pray also to St. Gall for the Health and Fecundity of their Geese to St. Wendeline for their Sheep to St. Anthony for their Hogs to St. Pelogius for their Oxen. They have also their peculiar Saints for every Trade the Physitians are patronized by Cosmus and Damian the Painters by St. Luke the Potters by Goarus the Shoo-makers by Crispin the Hunts men by Eustachius the Harlots for that also is a Trade at Rome by St. Afra and Mary Magdalen They are so given up to these Delusions that every Nation hath a peculiar Guardian-Saint and every City every Family and almost every House and every devouter person chooses his own patron-Saint whose Altars they more devoutly frequent whose Image they more religiously worship to whose Relicks they more readily go in Pilgrimage and whose Festival they more solemnly observe Of such as these the Prophet complains Jer. 2.13 My People have committed two Evils they have forsaken me the Fountain of living Waters and hewed them out Cisterns broken Cisterns that can hold no water Child This seems to me to be more like Heathenism than Christianity and certainly people cannot be good Christians in those Devotions but I pray Sir Do they not use the Lords Prayer Father Yes after their way They say ten Ave Maries for one Pater noster and leave out the Conclusion For thine is the Kingdom c. though it be expresly mentioned by St. Matthew 6.13 Child What do the Protestants say to this Father We say of this as we do of their robbing the People of the Cup in the Sacrament that 't is Sacrilege They steal away this Thanksgiving from Prayer as if it were no part of it So that it is no marvel that in Popery all the whole Body of their Doctrine is of the Salvation of men and that at a strange rate too God's Glory being buried in a deep silence Child You have shewed me the Christian Faith and the Roman Faith the Popish way of keeping the Commandements and the Protestant way and after what manner the Church of Rome teaches her Disciples to pray and how we Protestants pray I should now intreat you to proceed to the Sacraments but you have spoken so much of them already in the Trent Creed that I know not what to ask you about them Is there any thing more fit for me to know Father Yes You may remember that 't is one Article of the Trent Creed that there are seven Sacraments Now we Protestants own but two and I will shew you what Reasons we have for it First When the number of Sacraments were most necessary as under the Law they had but two which were types of ours therefore we need require no more Brethren I would not that you should be ignorant how that all our Fathers were under the cloud and all passed through the Sea and were all baptized unto Moses in the Cloud and in the Sea and did all eat the same Spiritual meat and did all drink the same Spiritual drink for they drank of that Spiritual Rock that followed them and that Rock was Christ 1 Cor. 10.1 2 3 4. Secondly Having meat drink and Cloaths we ought therewith to be content Now by the Sacrament of our Enterance our Spiritual cloathing is sealed unto us As many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ Gal. 3.27 And by that of our growth is sealed our Feeding The Cup of the Blessing which we bless is it not the Communion of the Bloud of Christ the Bread which we break is it not the Communion of the Body of Christ 1 Cor. 10.16 Thirdly These two Seals assure us of all Gods Graces as of our Regeneration Entrance and Ingrafting into Christ so of our growth and continuance in him and therefore we need no more For by one Spirit we are all baptized into one Body whether we be Jews or Gentiles whether we be bond or free and have been all made to drink into one Spirit 1 Cor. 12.13 There be as many Sacraments as there be things that need to be betokened to us about our Justification Therefore those five other Sacraments of Confirmation Penance Matrimony Orders and Extream Unction added by the Papists are superfluous because some of them have no Warrant at all out of the Word of God and God hath not promised a Blessing upon the using of them Others of them though they are agreeable to the Word yet are without the nature and number of Sacraments Child Since the Church of Rome takes liberty to make new Creeds new Commandments and new Sacraments hath she invented nothing else Father Yes She hath invented little pretty things like Sacraments of her own without a Divine Warrant and to these Sacramentals as she calls them she imputes Spiritual Effects and promises not only Temporal Blessings Immunities and Benedictions but the collation or increase of Spiritual Graces and Remission of Venial Sins and mitigation of pains due to Mortal sins to them who shall use them Child I pray Sir what be those Father Of this nature are Holy Water the Paschal Wax Oyle Palm boughs holy Bread holy Hats Agnus Dei's in English Lambs of God holy Medals holy Beads Swords and Daggers sanctified on the Altar Holy Bells and Roses hallowed upon the Sunday called Laetare Jerusalem such as Pope Pius the second sent to James the King of Scotland Child I pray what is their Doctrine concerning these things Father Their Doctrine is that the Bloud of Christ is by these applied unto us that they do not only signifie but produce Spiritual Effects that they blot out Venial Sins that they drive away Devils that they cure Diseases and that though these things do not operate infallibly as do the Sacraments and that God hath made no express Covenant concerning them yet by the Devotion of them that use them and the Prayers of the Church they do prevail Child I pray Sir what ground have they for those things Father The Priests and Jesuits abuse the People with Romantick Stories out of their Legends making them believe that one cured a mans broken Thigh with holy Water that another cured a mad-man
pray Sir what do we Protestants hold concerning the Law Father We hold that the moral Law commands the perfection of Godliness and Righteousness and directs us in our duties to God and Man Ye shall observe to do therefore as the Lord your God hath commanded you you shall not turn aside to the right hand or to the left Deut. 5.32 Child I pray Sir proceed now to the Commandments in particular as they were delivered by Moses and shew me first what we Protestants teach and then what the Church of Rome teaches concerning them Father I shall do it readily The first Commandment is Thou shalt have no other Gods before me and our Protestant Doctors teach that this Jehovah one in Substance and three in Persons the Creator and Governour of all things and the Redeemer of his People is to be entertained for the only true God in all the powers of the Soul and so Christ opens it Matt. 22.37 Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy Heart and with all thy Soul and with all thy Mind Child Doth not the Church of Rome expound it so Father No. The Church of Rome teaches to make more Gods than one they pray to the Saints whereby they make them Gods in giving this Divine Property unto them to know the Heart They call the Virgin Mary Queen of Heaven and say she is a Goddess and pray to her to command her Son to help them Nay they make the Pope a God they call him Our Lord God the Pope and they are more careful to obey his commands than the commands of God Child What is the meaning of the second Command Thou shalt not make to thy self any graven Image nor any Likeness of things in Heaven c. Father The meaning of this Commandment is to bind all men to that solemn Form of religious Worship which God himself in his Word prescribeth that we serve him not according to our Fancies but according to his Will What thing soever I command you observe to do it thou shalt not add thereto nor diminish from it Deut. 12.32 Child How do the Papists expound this Command Father They leave it quite out of their Catechisms because 't is so plain against their Image-worship and they divide the tenth into two to make up the number Child What Worship do they give to Images Father The same Worship they give to those whose Image it is as they worship the holy Trinity and Christ so they worship the Images of the Trinity and of Christ Child Did not the Heathens thus worship their Images Father Yes The Papists say they worship their Images with a relative Worship and so did the Heathens and indeed an Image cannot be worshipped with any other Worship Nor does the commandment forbid any other Worship for it is a contradiction to say this is the Image of God and yet this is God and therefore it must be also a contradiction to worship an Image with any other Worship for then it must be that the Image of a thing is that thing whose Image it is But they go yet a little farther the Image of the Cross they worship with divine Honour and though this divine Worship is but relative yet the Cross it self is worshipped terminatively with divine Adoration now if this be not Idolatry I can never be told what is the notion of the word If there can be Idolatry in the Worship of an Image it is certain that a relative divine Worship is this Idolatry for no man that worships an Image can make the Image the last Object either therefore the Heathens were not Idolaters in the worshiping of an Image or else these men are Child What is the sum of the third Command Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord c. Father The Sum of this Command is That we impeach not but by all means advance the glorious name of God in all things whereby he maketh himself known to men Give unto the Lord the Glory due unto his Name worship the Lord in the beauty of Holiness Psal 29.2 Child How do the Papists keep this Command Father They teach that 't is lawful to swear by the Saints and in their common talk they cry out O Lord O Jesu They use the Word Jesu thirty times together and this they take for a peice of Devotion And the Pope dispenseth with all Oaths at his pleasure and teaches that Faith is not to be kept with Hereticks Child What is the meaning of the fourth Command Remember to keep holy the Sabbath day Father It challengeth at the hand of every man one day of seven in every Week and requireth all Persons to separate themselves from their ordinary Labour and all other Exercises that they may attend to the worship of God only Child How do the Papists expound this Command Father They make the Popes Holy dayes equal with the Lords Sabbath and they are more zealous for the Observation of them for they will be sure to keep them but the Sabbath they usually spend in playing at Cards Dice and Tables Child What is the meaning of the fifth Command Honour thy Father and thy Mother c. Father That the Quality of mens Persons and Places in what Estate soever Natural Civil or Ecclesiastical be truly acknowledged and respected for it requires the Performance of all such Duties as one man oweth unto another Render to all their dues Tribute to whom Tribute is due Custom to whom Custom Fear to whom Fear Honour to whom honour Rom. 13.7 Child How do the Papists keep this Commandment Father They disannul it in giving freedom and immunity to to their Clergy from subjection to Civil Authority and in dispensing with Subjects for their Loyalty and Allegiance to their Lawful Princes and with Children and Servants from yielding due help service and obedience to their Parents and Masters Child What is the summe and meaning of the sixth Commandment Thou shalt not murder Father That the Life and Person of man be by man not impeached but preserved Surely the Bloud of your Lives will I require At the hand of every mans Brother will I require the Life of man Gen. 9.5 Child How do the Papists keep this Commandment Father They have Houses of Refuge which they call Sanctuaries wherein Murderers live in Safety They hold it meritorious to poyson or stab any man for the advancement of the Catholick Cause and 't is a Position with them though a damnable one That Princes excommunicate by the Pope may be murdered by their Subjects Child What is the meaning of the seventh Commandment Thou shalt not commit Adultery Father That all Uncleanness and Impurity be avoided and Chastity by all means preserved Having these Promises let us cleanse our selves from all filthiness of the Flesh and Spirit perfecting holiness in the Fear of God 2 Cor. 7.1 Child How do the Papists keep this Command Father They give Divorces for Marriages in the fourth degree and
the end of every tenth they drop in the Lord's Prayer and this with the Creed at the end of the fifty makes a perfect Rosary They have also the Psalter of Jesus in which are fifteen short Ejaculations as Have Mercy on me strengthen me help me comfort me c. And with every one of these the name of Jesus is to be said thirty times that is in all four hundred and fifty times Now this we think the Lord Christ plainly forbids Math. 5.7 8. When you pray use not vain Repetitions as the Heathens do for they think that they shall be heard by their much speaking be not ye therefore like unto them The Heathens thought to be heard for their much speaking and if the people of the Roman Church do not think so there is no reason why they should do so Child Is there any thing else they teach concerning Prayers Father Yes They teach the People to pray in Latin though they understand it not and tell them 't is sufficient that God understands it and all their publick Prayers are in Latine of which the People understand not one word contrary to Scripture and the practice of the Primitive Church If I pray in an unknown Tongue my Spirit prayeth but my understanding is unfruitful What is it then I will pray with the Spirit and I will pray with Understanding also else when thou shalt bless with the Spirit how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of Thanks seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest 1 Cor. 14 15 16. Child But what do they do at Mass if they do not understand the Prayers Father Truly Child I know not I was never there to see but I have been told that some talk one with another others look about them but they that would seem to be devout kneel down and say their Ave-maries according to their Beads And this is agreeable to their Doctrine for the Precept of hearing Mass is not to intend the words but to be present at the Sacrifice though the words be not so much as heard and their Doctors say 't is enough if their Bodies be present at their greatest Solemnities though they hear nothing that is spoken and understand as little Child This is wonderful strange to me that Christians should be taught to pray as Parots are to speak such Prayers certainly are not for God who searches the Heart To whom do they usually pray and direct such dead Prayers Father They pray to dead Men and Women who are or whom they suppose to be beatified and those they invocate as Preservers Helpers Guardians Deliverers in their Necessity and they expressly call them their Refuge their Guard and Defence their Life and Health which is so formidable a Devotion that we for them and for our selves too if we should imitate them are to dread the words of the Prophet Jer. 17.5 Cursed be the man that trusteth in man and maketh Flesh his Arm and whose Heart departeth from the Lord. Child But to whom do they chiefly pray Father To the Virgin Mary to their Angel-guardian and to the Saints upon several Occasions and yet the Lord Christ says when you pray say our Father Luc. 11.2 Child How do they pray to the Virgin Mary Father They have many Prayers and Littanies to the Virgin Mary and there is a Psalter of our Lady of great account in the Church of Rome which is nothing but the Psalms of David in which the name of Lord is left out and that of Lady put in so that whatever David said of God and Christ the same Prayers and the same Praises they say of the Virgin Mary and whether all that can be said without intollerable Blasphemy I suppose needs little Disputation Child But I pray Sir what Prayers do they present to the Virgin Mary Father They have many Prayers to the Virgin such as these O generous Mary beautious above all obtain Pardon for us apply Grace unto us prepare Glory for us Hail thou Rose thou Virgin Mary c. grant to us to use true Wisdom and with the Elect to enjoy Grace that we may with Melody praise thee and do thou drive our Sins away O Virgin Mary give us Joys These and divers others like these are in the Anthem of our Lady but the ordinary Prayer is this Hail Mary full of Grace our Lord is with thee blessed art thou above all Women and blessed is the Fruit of thy Womb Jesus Holy Mary Mother of God pray for us Sinners now and at the hour of our Death Amen Child What Reasons do they alledge for this Father The Reasons they give are more absurd than the Prayers themselves They say that Christ is not our Advocate alone but a Judge and since the Just are scarce secure how shall a Sinner go to him as to an Advocate Therefore God hath provided us of an Advocatess who is gentle and sweet in whom nothing that is sharp is to be found And to those words of St. Paul Come boldly to the Throne of Grace they say that Mary is the Throne of Grace in whom he rested to her therefore let us come with Boldness that we may obtain Mercy and find grace in time of need They say also that Mary is call'd full of Grace because she is the Means and Cause of Grace by transfusing Grace to Mankind nay they go higher yet Pope Leo the Tenth calls her a Goddess and the Jesuits say that she is the Companion or Partner of the divine Majesty and Power to her God long since gave the Principallity of all heavenly and mortal things so far as the Guardianship of men requires she rules at her Will the Earth and Seas Heaven and Nature and she consenting he gives divine Treasures and coelestial Gifts Nay in some of their Mass-books they call the Virgin Mary the way to Life the Governess of all the World the Reconciler of Sinners with God the Fountain of Remission of Sins Light of Light and at last salute her with an Ave universae Trinitatis Mater Hail thou Mother of the whole Trinity Child I beseech you no more of these Blasphemies I think no Christian Ear can hear them with Patience I am sure the Lord Christ gives no such Titles to the Virgin but rather reproves her Woman what have I to do with thee mine Hour is not come John 2.4 And calls his Disciples his Mother and his Brethren Who is my Mother and who are my Brethren And he stretched forth his hand towards his Disciples and said Behold my Mother and my Brethren for whosoever shall do the Will of my Father which is in Heaven the same is my Brother and Sister and Mother Matt. 12.49 50. But I pray proceed do they pray to the Angels also Father Yes To their Angel-guardian they use this Prayer Blessed Angel To whose Care and Custody our loving Creator hath committed me defend me this day I beseech you from all Dangers