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A45325 Qvakers principles quaking, or, Pretended light proved darkness, and perfections found to be greatest imperfections in an answer to a written paper, subscribed with the name of Thomas Holme, and scattered through the country about Liverpool and Lancashire / modestly propounded by Ralph Hall ... Hall, Ralph. 1656 (1656) Wing H423; ESTC R39227 32,660 37

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unchangeable Priest-hood and if so they must needs of Divine right belong to the servants of Melchisedecks order but the Ministers of the Gospel are Servants of Melchisedecks order therefore to them of Divine right Tythes belong for Christ is a Priest nor after the Order of Aaron but after that unchangeable Order of Melchisedeck And methinks that pract●ce of Jacob Gen. 28. is full for this present purpose he was going about a weighty business in pursuance of a command received from Isaac his Father God is with him and in his journey appeareth to him in a Dream le ts him see a Ladder reaching from earth to Heaven upon which the Angels ascended and descended Jacobs eyes are opened and he cries out The Lord is in this place and I knew it not vers. 16. He is terrified at the Lords presence and saith How dreadful is this place it is none other but the House of God and the gate of Heaven vers. 17. And observing these things he vows a vow vers. 20. saying If the Lord will be with me and keep me in this way that I go and will give me bread to eat and rayment to put on so that I come again to my fathers house in peace then shall the Lord be my God and this stone which I have set up for a pillar mentioned before in vers 18. shall bee Gods House and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee It is clear to me from this Scripture that Jacob acknowledgeth a tenth part of his substance to be of Spiritual right due unto the Lords House and he enters into a vow to perform his duty herein And if it was a Spiritual right belonging to Gods House it must needs of Divine right belong to Gods Servants that waite upon the service of his house these servants not being servants to such a Priest-hood as was subject to change for Aarons Priest-hood was not then erected but servants to an unchangeable Priest-hood even after the Order of Melchisedeck which endeth not for Christ continues a Priest for ever after the same Order all along in these Scriptures held forth viz. the order of Melchisedeck See for this Heb. 7.16 17. who is made not after the Law of a carnal Commandement but after the power of an endless life for he testifieth Thou art a Priest for ever after the Order of Melchisedeck So then wee see it pleased the most wise God whose is the earth and the fulness thereof to appoint such a proportion as the tenth part both before the Law and under the Law and never after expresly to take it off Who art thou oh man that dare say it is an unmeet proportion unless thou wilt acknowledge thy self to be wiser than God But since the legal proportion is displeasing to some I desire those that are displeased therewith strictly to observe the charge of the Apostle Paul who was an Apostle to the Gentiles and I doubt not but all truly godly Ministers of the Gospel will be well satisfied the charge is this Let him that is taught in the Word communicate to him that teacheth in all good things Gal. 6.6 now Tythes are good things they are the fruits 〈◊〉 ●ne earth which fruits are called precious fruits Jam. 5.7 And in tru●h the Apostle gives not this charge without good cause for the Ministers are commanded to give themselves to study to approve themselves unto God Workmen that need not to bee ashamed rightly dividing the word of truth 2 Tim. 2.15 and their care ought to bee laid out for the Churches of God 2 Cor. 11.28 so as that it must needs follow they cannot lay out such care for their Temporal provision as others whose call is not so immediately to the Lords work as theirs is And it seems to me the good Lord of the house who careth for his 1 Pet. 5.7 took special care that they that minister in the Word and Doctrin should bee comfortably provided for without this care though I confess it was to Timothy that Paul writ when he affirmed that if any provide not for his own especially for them of his own house he hath denied the Faith and is worse than an Infidel 1 Tim. 5.8 18. that text formerly mentioned Deut. 14.22 Deut. 25.4 is again quoted by the Apostle as if he would again and again couple Law and Gospel together to speak one and the same thing in point of comfortable provision for the Ministers of the Gospel and argues it from good reason viz. The labourer is worthy of his hire and proves this Argument from our Saviours own words Mat. 10.10 And but once more with which I will conclude this Section I find our Saviour promising ample reward to any that shall put forth a charitable hand towards any of his Ministers in a case of being fallen into poverty Matth. 10.42 Whosoever shall give to drink a cup of cold water to one of these little ones in the name of a Disciple shall not lose his reward and at vers. 41. more pregnant to our present purpose He that receiveth a Prophet in the name of a Prophet shall receive a Prophets reward I may say on the contrary hee that shall take from a Prophet the right of a Prophet as he is a Prophet or he that shall refuse to give entertainment to a Prophet into his house or into his heart as a Prophet may expect a Prophets Curse and what that is you may see if you please to turn to Zech. 11.17 But you may perhaps say If this provision bee made for the M●nisters how should they fall into poverty and yet let me tell you such a thing once was and Gods great care put forth concerning it 2 King 4.1 c. the Prophet was dead and had left Wife and Children in debt but which is worth our observing rather than the Prophets debts shall be unpaid the Lord will work a Miracle viz. empty vessels shall be filled with Oyl and the Oyl shall be sold and the Prophets debts paid Thus we see Gods provision made for his Servants the Ministers cleared from the Word of God both out of the Old Testament and the New the Old sets out the proportion viz. the tenth part the New is silent as to the proportion but full for a comfortable furnishing of them with all good things his care is held forth for them to the working of a Miracle his promise made to any that shall receive them and minister to them though but in a Cup of cold water and if any yet out of a sinister end shall plead that it is not by all this clear that they ought to receive Tythes I have only one word more to say and so conclude Secondly It is not only clear by Scripture but the Law and customs of Nations hath made choyse of this proportion and of our Nation amongst the rest it hath been and still is established by the Laws of the Land and
will a man rob God it should seem by this text that your opinion is no new thing but as old as this Prophesie for the very same colour that yee pretend the Lord intimates to be this peoples pretence viz. Wherein have we robbed thee why saith the Lord in Tythes and Offerings and me thinks there is abundance of emphasis in the tenth verse by you likewise quoted Bring yee in all the Tythes into the store-house that there may be meat in my House and prove me now herewith saith the Lord of Hosts if I will not open windows in Heaven and pour down such a blessing as there shall not be room to receive it as if the Lord had said Do yee pretend a scarcity of the fruits of the earth so as yee cannot spare the Tythe that I require of you why you may thank your selves for your unwillingness to pay them that the increase of your Fields and of your Flocks and Herds is so slender or that I have blessed your increase no better but prove me now bring in the full of your Tythes keep nothing back and see if I will not so bless your increase as that not only your Barnes and your Wine-presses and your Stalls c. shal be full but there shall not be room to receive them And were it not to hold a Candle to the Sun I might adde many more Scriptures both out of the Law and Prophets that would speak the same thing As also of the largeness and bountifulness of the provision that God made for his Ministers that waited at his Altars even under the Law And have wee any grounded reason to produce why God should be straiter handed in his allowance of maintenance for his Ministers that he hath imployed in more excellent work for so is Gospel-work when it is compared with Legal-work But you are ready to take me here at my own word and to reply that all that I have said concerning Tythes is Legal and from the Law though you know it is partly from the Law and partly from the Prophets But you will say again the Law and Prophets are all one yea and so say I too and further I affirm That Moses and the Prophets and the Gospel are all one in substance and in effect the very same thing they are all the word of one and the same immutable and unchangeable God I might prove this abundantly but for brevity sake this one Scripture shall serve for and instead of many and methinks it might it is so full Heb. 1.1 2 God who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in times past to our Fathers by the Prophets hath in these last days spoken to us by his Son whom he hath appointed to be heir of all things by whom also hee made the Worlds I pray you observe with me God one and the same God spake spake one and the same word yea at sundry times and in divers manners to our Fathers by the Prophets to us by his Son but to both one and the same word So then we may conclude the immutable God who was yesterday to our fore-fathers to day to us and the same for evermore hath spoken a Word and left us a Word like himself unchangeable in the substance of it though changeable in the administration of it according to the good pleasure of God the speaker of it yet the same Word spoken to his people whether in old time by his Prophets or in the fulness of time by his Son Gal. 4.4 5. or in the declining of time by the Ministers of the Gospel so then we see how dangerous a thing it is for us to separate or put asunder what God hath so joyned together that it is no more two but one I mean his whole entire and individual word and if this be granted the controversie is easily decided But you say further This Law so much insisted upon together with the Priest-hood of it is changed and the Commandement disannulled and this you bottom upon Heb. 7.12 18. the very same words that you mention in your Paper I confess is here the Scripture-word yet let mee tell you if we should take every word in Scripture in the bare letter of it not weighing the sence and meaning of the Spirit of God in the Scriptures such absurdities would follow as you and I little think of for instance one amongst many it were easie for me to prove that you have no faith or for you to prove that I have none if we only look upon the letter of one text of Scripture and our Saviours own words Matth. 17.20 Verily I say unto you if you have faith as a grain of Mustard-seed yee shall say to this mountain be thou removed hence to yonder place and it shall remove and nothing shall be impossible to you Observe Faith as a grain of Mustard-seed which our Saviour elsewhere saith is the least of Seeds yet if so small a quantity of faith be in you Mountains shall remove out of one place into another but which of us can speak this word of faith so as a mountain of stone or earth shall thus remove I bless God I know how to understand this Scripture better but I say if we take this Scripture in the letter of it who hath any faith at all when so small a quantity of it will do so great a work Therefore I say the sence and scope of the Spirit of God must be inquired of in all Scripture readings or else there are many things in the very Epistles of the Apostle Paul that are hard to be understood which the unlearned and unskilful do wrest to their own destruction as they also wrest all other Scriptures 2 Pet. 3.16 and therefore let us enquire into the meaning of this change of Law and Priest-hood and of this disanulling of the Commandement and we are right at this point or else not As for the change of the Priest-hood it is in relation to the manner of Administration not in point of Office for though the Sacrifices of Burnt Offerings be taken out of the way being nayled to the Cross of Christ yet there remains the Sacrifice of Prayer and Supplication with giving of thanks 1 Tim. 2.1 to be offered up upon the Altar the Lord Jesus Christ which is to God a Sacrifice of a sweet-smelling savour Ephes. 5.2 and indeed is the sum and substance of all Burnt Offerings So David Thou requirest not Sacrifice else would I give it thee thou delightest not in Burnt Offerings but the sacrifice of God is a contrite spirit a broken and a humble heart O God thou wilt not despise Psal. 51.17 So if I should instance in all the particular injuctions of the Ceremonial Law it self we should find only the manner of Administration changed not the matter substance and equity of any one of them for instance in one of the meanest of them There was a Law of divers washings of hands and cleansing of
of the anguish of his soul cursed the day of his birth c. I say after all this when Job comes to himself he cryes out against himself I abhor my self and repent in dust and ashes Job 42.6 If Job had been perfect what needed he to have repented but further we find the Apostle Paul disclaiming perfection in himself Phil. 3.12 13. Not as though I had already attained or were already perfect but I follow after c. And at vers. 14. Brethren I count not my self to have apprehended but this one thing I do forgetting those things that are behind and reach forth towards those things that are before c. And at vers. 15. Let as many as be perfect be thus minded as if the Apostle had said The highest degree of perfection that I have attained to is to be sensible of my own imperfection Secondly Hee not only disclaims perfection in himself but fully asserts that both Jew and Gentile are all under sin and there is none righteous no not one there is none that doth good no not one c. Rom. 3.9 10. See further for this Isa. 64.6 But we are all as an unclean thing and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags and we all do fade as a leaf and our iniquities like the wind hath taken us away And what more plain against your doctrine of perfection then these Scriptures But secondly I shall prove it by Argument 1 If we could attain to be absolutely perfect men and free from sin we should be freed from death if Adam had not sinned hee had not dyed In the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely dye Gen. 2.17 And the wages of sin is death Rom 6.23 From whence I argue no work no wages no sin no death But it is appointed unto all men once to dye and after death to come to judgement And why so Because all have sinned Rom 5.12 As by one man sin entred into the world and death by sin and so death passed upon all men for that all have sinned Sure then our perfection as well as our portion is in reversion So at vers. 5. If we have been planted together with him in the likeness of his death we shall bee also in the likeness of his resurrection Observe as we are in the one we shall be in the other 2 If we were perfectly free from sin we should be free from temporal punishments and afflictions which are the fruits and effects of sin otherwise God were unjust But the best of Gods people are daily liable to temporal afflictions therefore short of perfection 3 If we were perfect we could not sin at all But in many things wee offend all James 3.2 And if we say that we have no sin we deceive our selves and there is no truth in us 1 Joh. 1.8 4 If we were perfect here we should have the end of our hope here But if in this life onely Christians had hope they were of all men most miserable 1 Cor. 15 19. 5 And lastly If we could attain to absolute perfection here we should enjoy our glorious and eternal rest here but the Apostle was of another judgement For saith he Doubtless there remains a rest to the people of God Heb 4.9 Job likewise agrees with the Apostle Job 3.7 and that holy man of God John the Divine heard other news and that from Heaven too Rev. 14.13 I heard a voyce from heaven saying unto me Write from henceforth blessed are the dead that dye in the Lord even so saith the Spirit for they rest from their labours and their works follow them So then our rest is in heaven doubtless our perfection is not here But I remember you pleaded hard for perfection that time the Ministers gave you the meeting at the Greave-house from these two Scriptures viz. How shall I that am dead to sin live any longer therein and again As the tree falls so it lyeth from whence you truly inferred that as Death leaves a man Judgement is sure to finde him both which are the truths of God being rightly understood As to the first of these viz. How shall I that am dead to sin live any longer therein it is true I cannot so as to make it my trade and living nor yet so as to live in the least known sin with allowance of my self therein nor yet as the Scripture phrase is to tumble and wallow therein as the Sow that is washed doth in the mire But hence to assert that he that is dead to sin is freed from sin will not follow for God knows many are the secret sins of the best of Gods people and therefore David a man after Gods own heart crys out unto the Lord Lord cleanse me from my secret sin and not only so but hee prays earnestly that God would keep him that presumptuous sins might not prevail over him Psal. 19.13 sure I am David was sensible of his own imperfection But Secondly As the Tree falls so it lyes or As Death leaves us Judgement is sure to finde us For that man or woman that doth not here in this life by faith make good his proprietie and interest in the Lord Jesus Christ shall never have benefit by him in the Life to come for saith he He that beleeveth on me hath eternal life but he that beleeveth not is condemned already Joh. 3.16 18. I freely acknowledge living and dying in unbeleef renders a man truly miserable for as there is no praising of God in the Grave so there is no actings of faith there but As the tree falls so it lyes but it follows not hence that we are perfect here unless it be by faith in the Son of God and in that sence I shall be of your judgement for all Gods people as well as Job do know that their Redeemer liveth and that they shall see him at the last day not with other but their own eyes and indeed Christ is perfection it self I have only Three things more to admonish you of else I shall fall too short of a full answer to your Paper First one is concerning that Law that you say is written in mens hearts by which only they are to be guided Secondly Concerning that light you say is within a man to which only he is to look and Thirdly Concerning your rayling reviling and unchristian Language that you ordinarily put forth in both your speakings and writings I am resolved to clear my self in the sight of God of all malice and envie in what I shall say to these and what I do speak to speak in faithfulness And first The Law written in mens hearts it must needs be either First the Law of God or Secondly The Law of Nature or Thirdly No Law at all but a delusion of Sathan I shall be farre from judging any of you and as free in desiring you to judge your selves that you be not judged of the Lord Mistake me not I know all men and women shall