Selected quad for the lemma: heaven_n
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A30412
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A relation of a conference held about religion at London by Edw. Stillingfleet ... with some gentlemen of the Church of Rome.
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Stillingfleet, Edward, 1635-1699.; Burnet, Gilbert, 1643-1715.
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1687
(1687)
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Wing B5863; ESTC R4009
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107,419
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74
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me but I have recommended a Sacrament to you which being spiritually understood shall quicken you and tho it be necessary that it be celebrated visibly yet it must be understood invisibly From which it is as plain as can be that St. Austin believed that in the Eucharist we do not eat the natural Flesh and drink the natural Blood of Christ but that we do it only in a Sacrament and spiritually and invisibly But the force of all this will appear yet clearer if we consider that they speak of the Sacrament as a Memorial that exhibited Christ to us in his absence For tho it naturally follows that whatsoever is commemorated must needs be absent yet this will be yet more evident if we find the Fathers made such Reflections on it So Gaudentius says Tract in Exod. This is the hereditary Gift of his New Testament which that Night he was betrayed to be crucified he left as the Pledg of his Presence this is the Provision for our Iourney with which we are fed in this way of our Life and nourished till we go to him out of this World for he would have his Benefits remain with us He would have our Souls to be always sanctified by his precious Blood and by the Image of his own Passion Primasius Comm. in 1 Epist. ad Cor. compares the Sacrament to a Pledg which one when he is dying leaves to any whom he loved Many other places may be brought to shew how the Fathers speak of Memorials and Representations as opposite to the Truth and Presence of that which is represented And thus we doubt not but we have brought Proofs which in the Judgment of all that are unprejudiced must demonstrate the truth of this our second Proposition which we leave and go on to the third which was That by the Doctrine of the Fathers the unworthy Receivers did not receive Christ's Body and Blood in the Sacrament For this our first Proof is taken from Origen Com. in Mat. c. 15. who after he had spoken of the Sacraments being eaten and passing to the Belly adds These things we have said of the typical and symbolical Body but many things may be said of the Word that was made Flesh and the true Food whom whosoever eats he shall live for ever whom no wicked Person can eat for if it were possible that any who continues wicked should eat the Word that was made Flesh since he is the Word and the Living Bread it had never been written Whoso eats this Bread shall live for ever Where he makes a manifest difference between the typical and symbolical Body received in the Sacrament and the incarnate Word of which no wicked Person can partake And he also says Hom. 3. in Mat. They that are Good eat the Living Bread that came down from Heaven and the Wicked eat Dead Bread which is Death Zeno Bishop of Verona that as is believed lived near Origen's time Tom. 2. Spir. Dach says as he is cited by Ratherius Bishop of Verona There is cause to fear that he in whom the Devil dwells does not eat the Flesh of our Lord nor drink his Blood tho he seems to communicate with the Faithful since our Lord hath said He that eats my Flesh and drinks my Blood dwells in me and I in him St. Ierom on the 66th of Isaiah says They that are not holy in Body and Spirit do neither eat the Flesh of Iesus nor drink his Blood of which he said He that eats my Flesh and drinks my Blood hath Eternal Life And on the 8th Chapter of Hosea he says They eat not his Flesh whose Flesh is the Food of them that believe To the same purpose he writes in his Comments on the 22d of Ieremy and on the 10th of Zechariah St. Austin says Tract 26. in Ioan. He that does not abide in Christ and in whom Christ does not abide certainly does not spiritually eat his Flesh nor drink his Blood tho he may visibly and carnally break in his Teeth the Sacrament of the Body and Blood of Christ But he rather eats and drinks the Sacrament of so great a matter to his Iudgment And speaking of those who by their Uncleanness become the Members of an Harlot he says Lib. 21. de Civ Dei c. 25. Neither are they to be said to eat the Body of Christ because they are not his Members And besides he adds He that says whoso eats my Flesh and drinks my Blood abides in me and I in him shews what it is not only in a Sacrament but truly to eat the Body of Christ and drink his Blood To this we shall add that so oft cited Passage Tract 54. in Ioan. Those did eat the Bread that was the Lord the other he means Iudas the Bread of the Lord against the Lord. By which he clearly insinuates he did believe the unworthy Receivers did not receive the Lord with the Bread And that this hath been the constant Belief of the Greek Church to this day shall be proved if it be thought necessary for clearing this matter And thus far we have studied to make good what we undertook to prove But if we had enlarged on every Particular we must have said a great deal more to shew from many undeniable Evidences that the Fathers were Strangers to this new Mystery It is clear from their Writings that they thought Christ was only spiritually present that we did eat his Flesh and drink his Blood only by Faith and not by our bodily Senses and that the words of eating his Flesh and drinking his Blood were to be understood spiritually It is no less clear that they considered Christ present only as he was on the Cross and not as he is now in the Glory of the Father And from hence it was that they came to order their Eucharistical Forms so as that the Eucharist might represent the whole History of Christ from his Incarnation to his Assumption Besides they always speak of Christ as absent from us according to his Flesh and Human Nature and only present in his Divinity and by his Spirit which they could not have said if they had thought him every day present on their Altars in his Flesh and Human Nature for then he were more on Earth than he is in Heaven since in Heaven he is circumscribed within one place But according to this Doctrine he must be always in above a Million of places upon Earth so that it were very strange to say he were absent if they believed him thus present But to give yet further Evidences of the Fathers not believing this Doctrine let us but reflect a little on the Consequences that necessarily follow it which be 1. That a Body may be by the Divine Power in more places at once 2. That a Body may be in a place without Extension or Quantity so a Body of such Dimensions as our blessed Lord's Body can be in so small a room as a thin Wafer and not only
Merits of Jesus Christ but that several things may concur in several orders or ways to produce the same effects so although we are pardoned and saved only through Jesus Christ yet without Holiness we shall never see God we must also suffer whatever Crosses he tries us with So that these in another sense procure the pardon of our sins and eternal salvation Thus in like manner the Prayers of the blessed Virgin and the Saints are great helps to our obtaining these therefore though these be all joyned together in the same Prayer yet it was an unjust Charge on their Church to say they make them equal in their value or efficiency M. B. said The thing he had chiefly excepted against in that Prayer was that these things are ascribed to the Merits of the blessed Virgin and the Saints Now he had only spoken of their Prayers and he appealed to all if the natural meaning of these words was not that he charged on them and the sense the other had offered was not forced M. C. said By Merits were understood Prayers which had force and merit with God M. B. said That could not be for in another Absolution in the Office of our Lady they pray for Remission of sins through the Merits and Prayers of the blessed Virgin so that by Merits must be meant somewhat else than their Prayers M. C. said That as by our Prayers on earth we help one anothers souls so by our giving alms for one another we might do the same so also the Saints in Heaven might be helpful to us by their Prayers and Merits And as soon as he had spoken this he got to his feet and said he was in great haste and much business lay on him that day but said to D. S. That when he pleased he would wait on him and discourse of the other particulars at more length D. S. assured him that whenever he pleased to appoint it he should be ready to give him a meeting And so he went away Then we all stood and talked to one another without any great order near half a hour the Discourse being chiefly about the Nags-head Fable D. S. appealed to the publick Registers and challenged the silence of all the Popish Writers all Queen Elizabeth's Reign when such a story was fresh and well known and if there had been any colour for it is it possible they could keep it up or conceal it S. P. T. said All the Registers were forged and that it was not possible to satisfie him in it no more than to prove he had not four fingers on his hand and being desired to read Dr. Bramhali's Book about it he said he had read it six times over and that it did not satisfie him M. B. asked him How could any matter of Fact that was a hundred years old be proved if the publick Registers and the instruments of publick Notaries were rejected and this the more that this being a matter of fact which could not be done in a corner nor escape the knowledge of their Adversaries who might have drawn great and just advantages from publishing and proving it yet that it was never so much as spoken of while that Race was alive is as â— an Evidence as can be that the Forgery was on the other side D. S. did clear the Objection from the Commission and Act of Parliament that it was only for making the Ordination legal in England since in Edw. 6. time the Book of Ordination was not joyned in the Record to the Book of Common-Prayer from whence Bishop Bonner took occasion to deny their Ordination as not according to Law and added that Saunders who in Queen Elizabeth's time denied the validity of our Ordination never alledged any such story But as we were talking freely of this M. W. said once or twice they were satisfied about the chief Design they had in that meeting to see if there could be alledged any place of Scripture to prove that Article about the blessed Sacrament and said somewhat that looked like the beginning of a Triumph Upon which D. S. desired all might sit down again that they might put that matter to an issue so a Bible was brought and D. S. being spent with much speaking desired M. B. to speak to it M. B. turned to the 6th Chap. of Iohn vers 54. and read these words Whose eateth my Flesh and drinketh my blood hath eternal Life and added These words were according to the common Interpretation of their Church to be understood of the sacramental Manducation This M. W. granted only M. B. had said all the Doctors understood these words so and M. W. said That all had not done so which M. B. did acknowledge but said it was the received Exposition in their Church and so framed his Argument Eternal Life is given to every one that receives Christ in the Sacrament But by Faith only we get eternal Life therefore by Faith only we receive Christ in the Sacrament Otherwise he said unworthy Receivers must be said to have eternal Life which is a contradiction for as such they are under Condemnation yet the unworthy Receivers have the external Manducation therefore that Manducation that gives eternal Life with it must be internal and spiritual and that is by Faith A Person whose Name I know not but shall henceforth mark him N. N. asked what M. B. meant by Faith only M. B. said By Faith he meant such a believing of the Gospel as carried along with it Evangelical Obedience by Faith only he meant Faith as opposite to sense D. S. asked him if we received Christ's Body and Blood by our Senses N. N. said we did D. S. asked which of the senses his Taste or Touch or Sight for that seemed strange to him N. N. said We received Christ's Body with our senses as well as we did the substance of Bread for our senses did not receive the substance of Bread and did offer some things to illustrate this both from the Aristotelian and Cartesian Hypothesis D. S. said He would not engage in that Subtlety which was a digression from the main Argument but he could not avoid to think it a strange Assertion to say we received Christ by our senses and yet to say he was so present there that none of our senses could possibly perceive him But to the main Argument M. W. denied the Minor that by Faith only we have eternal Life M. B. proved it thus The Sons of God have eternal Life but by Faith only we become the Sons of God therefore by Faith only we had eternal Life M. W. said Except he gave them both Major and Minor in express words of Scripture he would reject the Argument M. B. said That if he did demonstrate that both the Propositions of his Argument were in the strictest Construction possible equivalent to clear places of Scripture then his Proofs were good therefore he desired to know which of the two Propositions he should prove either that