learne from him many new and excellent points This your first reason seemed very iust in your conceit to maintaine your glorious challenge of disputation with some of the learned of our Vniuersities But Campian you had delt a great deale wiser for your self if either you had neuer conceiued thesâ— reasons or streightway vpon the birth smothered them For before by your great challenge you begat a maruelous and wonderfull conceit of your selfe in euery mans mind and now when they shall readâ— those slender reasons of yours they will easily perceiue there is no cause why you should take so much vpon you and they wil tontemptuously deride you as you well deserue hisse you out of their scholes Therefore the counsell which Archidamuâ— gaue to his Sonne headily venturing to right with the Athenians the same doe our Vniuersitie men giue to to you Either adde to thy might or abate of thy mind for no man Campian euer tooke more vpon him and performed lesse than you haue done But let vs see what other things you bring vs. EDMVND CAMPIAN The second Reason which is the right sense of the Scriptures ANother matter that prouoked me to vndertake this enterprize and that enforced mee little to feare these my aduersaries slender armies is the vsuall inclination of my enemie in expounding the Scriptures full of deceite and void of wisdome These things you Philosophers would quickely finde out and therefore I was desirous of your audience Let vs demaund for example sake of our aduersaries what caused them to deuise this new opinion whereby Christ is * This is false for we doe not exclude Christ from the Supper excluded out of the mysticall supper If they name the Gospell we ioyne with them the very words they are for vs. a Matth. 26 Mark 14. Luk. 22. This is my bodie this is my blood which words seemed to b Luther in epist. ad Argen Luther so forcible that when he earnestly desired to be of Zuinglius mind because by that meanes he might haue wrought the Pope most displeasure yet notwithstanding he yeelded being ouercome and vanquished by the most plaine text of Scripture and as vnwillingly confessed that Christ is truly present in the most holy Sacrament as the c Matth. â— Marke 1. diuels in time past being ouercome with miracles with outcries confessed that Christ is the sonne of God Goe to then the written word doth fauour vs the controuersie is about the true meaning of the written word Let vs trie out this by the words thereunto adioyning d Luk. 22. Mattb. 22. Corpus meum quod pro vobis datur sanguis meus qui pro multis eâ—lundetur that is My bodie which is giuen for you my blood which shal be shed for many Yet the matter goeth hard on Caluins side and maketh very manifestly and plainely for vs. What say they else Conferre say they the Scriptures together Agreed The c Iohn 6. Matth. 16. Marc. 14. Luc. 22. Gospels make for vs f 1. Cor. 10. 11. S. Paul accordeth also The words the sentences the whole connexion of Scriptures doe often most reuerently repeate the bread and the wine a not able miracle heauenly foode his flesh his bodie his blood Here is nothing figuratiue nothing obscured by doubtfull speeches yet notwithstanding the aduersaries stand stiffely in their opinion and neuer cease wrangling What shall we then doe I hope antiquitie may be heard and that the reuerend hoare head of Fathers of all former ages to Christs time more nigh farther off from the time of these controuersies may be their iudgement determine this debate which we cannot end amongst our selues being suspected one of another * This is false for in this coÌ„trouersie we willingly admit Antiquity as witnesse They cannot away with that they say then they are betraied They crie out for the sincere and pure word of God they vtterlie reiect all mens commentaries trecherouslie and witlesselie done We will vrge them with the word of God they darken it we call the Saints in heauen for witnesses they refuse them In few words this is their drift that vnlesse thou wilt stand to their owne iudgement that are guiltie there is no iudgement to be had And so they behaue themselues in euerie controuersie betweene vs. As concerning grace powred into vs from heauen inherent iustice the visible Church the necessity of Baptisme Sacraments and sacrifices meritorious works of good folke hope and feare inequality of offences the authoritie of S. Peter the keyes vowes Euangelicall counsailes and other like controuersies we Catholikes in sundrie of our books in our mutuall conference in churches in schooles haue brought forth many and waightie places of Scripture and haue both tried and applied the same They haue scorned at this We haue alledged the interpretations of the auncient Greeke and Latin Churches they haue refused them What say they then marry that M. Doctor Martin Luther or else M. Philip Melanthon or certainelie M. Zuinglius or without doubt M. Caluin and M. Beza haue faithfullie entreated vpon these matters Can I imagine any of you to be so stuffed in the nose that being forewarned cannot quicklie smell out this subtile iugling wherfore I confesse plainlie that I am desirous to haue audience in the Vniuersitie scholes that after I haue called these Ruffian-like knights out of their dark dennes into the open and plaine field I may before your eies discomfite them not by my owne strength which am not to bee compared with the worst of an hundred of our side but by the puissance of the cause and certaintie of the truth which we maintaine WILLIAM WHITAKERS The answere to the second Reason WHat could be said touching the Scriptures wee haue heard wee must proceed to heare what can bee said for the interpretation and exposition of them for our vsuall inclination in expounding the Scriptures saith Campian hath encouraged and incited him earnestly to desire this encounter And we also Campian haue long ago desired to buckle with you herein And at length the Lord hath brought you out of your lurking holes into the broad light that we might trie it out with you but what is our disposition you speake of It is full of deceit say you and void of wisdome Thus you being a man of small reach and lesse discretion do conceite our inclination Assuredly the matter you haue now in hand is a cause of great waight for the force the substance and as it were the soule of the Scripture consisteth in the meaning very well said Hierome The Scriptures are not in the letter but in the vnderstanding Contra Lucifer in 1. cap. ad Gila and in another place a DVR Then Luther and Caluin obtruded a new Gospell vpon the Church when they brought in a new sense of the words such as the whole Christian â—orld knew not yea it had a far other sense of the Scriptures WHIT. pag. 138. If this last
any Schoole-learning that they will heedfully obserue how current these your conclusions be and examine them by the rules of right and true disputation And indeed to chuse I will there begin where you your selfe haue made an entrance We mainteine that it is lawfull for Ministers of the Gospell and for Deacons to be maried You skorne the arguments whereby we make it good Wherefore let vs consider what goodly stuffe is brought on your side for the contrarie Pope Innocent the second of that name Distinct 82 Proposuisti Rom. 8.8 thus concludeth you must suppose by diuine inspiration against these mariages They which are in b DVR Pope Innocent spake of Priests who had vowed single life of their ovvne accord but aftervvard yeelded to lust WHIT. pag. 735. Nay he spake that of all Deacons and Priests for hee saith further Distinct. 82. cap. proposuisti It is not lawfull to admit them to holy offices which vse carnall companie â—ith their wiues because it is written â—â—e yee holy for 〈◊〉 the Lord your God am holy for then hee esteemed marriage duty to bee an vnholie thing in it selfe not in respect of their vow of which he speaketh not a word the flesh cannot please God Tit. 1.15 Vnto the pure al things are pure but vnto them that are defiled and vnbeleeuing is nothing pure Be yee holy because I the Lord your God am holy And because S. Paul permitteth married people by consent to sleepe apart for a season to the end they may more conueniently giue themselues to fasting praier Distinct 31. Tenere here heÌ„ce the Pope gathereth that this is much more c DVR This argument is good and can haue no shew of error For aboue all men a Priest must be chaste saith Origen Homil. 6 4. in Leuit. Also Ierome and Ambrose and Epiphanius taught the same WHIT. pag. 736. Yea you erâ—e and mistake S. Paul in theree things 1. What he wrote to all Christians you expound of Lay-men only 2. He speaketh only of extraordinarie fasts prayer but you applie it vnto all sorts thereof That the Apostle speaketh of extraordinarie appeares 1. Because he hath ioyned fasting with them 1. Cor. 7.5.2 Because Christ and his Apostle haue commanded all to pray continually and so all ought to lâ—ue a single life 3. From a short abstinence of Lay-men you childishly would proue a perpetuall single life to be necessary for Ministers You abuse also Origens words play the heretike as if chastitie were contrary to matrimony whereas the Fathers of the Nicene Councell consented to Paphnutius who said openly that society with a lavvfull wiâ—e is chastitie Socrates lib. 1. cap. 11. Jerome indeed disputed too sophistically against matrimony seeking victory more then verity as himself confessed Ambrâ—se and Epiphanius disswaded Ministers only from second mâ—â—riages allowing their fiâ—st to be done of Priests whose office is to pray alwaies to offer that daily sacrifice Distinct 28 Decernimus Last of al seeing they must be a teÌ„ple of the Lord and an oratory of the spirit d DVR Tertullian vsed this same argument against second marriage WHIT. pag. 739. Tertullian therein erred with Montanus as all the learned know condemning second marriages of vncleannes not only in Ministers but in all Christians yet he himselfe being a Priest was married and liued with his wife continuing his Ministery so that he neither iudged marriage to be vncleanenes nor vnlavvfull in Ministers simplie but only second marriages they ought not to abase themselues with bed-pleasures vncleannesses Now out of all these he coÌ„cludeth that which he propounded that Deacons and Priests are flatlie forbidden to marry Harding and Dorman and others If these things be absurdly disputed let vs heare others Seuerall Pastors haue rule ouer seuerall flockes c DVR The Pope challengeth no Lordship ouer the Churches but professeth himselfe the seueruant of Gods seruants WHIT. pag. 740. But his deeâ—s bewray his tyranny for he prescribeth commandeth threatneth punisheth and doth whatsoeuer any Lord can do DVR You can disproâ—e this consequent by no argument WHIT. pag. 741. It is an absurd argument like these Euery seuerall man hath one head therefore all men must haue one head Euery seuerall flocke hath his shepheard therefore all flockes must haue one to rule them Againe no one man can possiblie teach and feed the whole Church with the Word and Sacrament as a faithfull Pastor should and may doe in a particular Church Christ only can thus feed al particular Churches which can neuer be made one visible body and therefore can haue none but Christ the generall head and Pastor ouer them DVR Ierome Cyprian and Ireneus haue written the same we doe WHIT. pag 742. Not one of them First Ierome defendeth the superiority of one Pastor in the Church not as a matter of accessitie but of conueniency to preuent schismes and saith that the Church is founded vpon all the Apostles alike and that euery one equally hath receiued the keies of the kingdome of heauen euen in that place where you quote him against Iouinian lib. 1. Secondly Cyprian coÌ„cludeth only that there should be but one Pastor in one Church and neuer thought vpon the Popes primacie but saith plainly that euery particular Bishop hath all whatsoeuer any one hath by right in the same booke which you alleadge of the Churches vnity Lastly Ireneus called the Romane the chiefe Church not for any superiority but because she excelled all others in constancie largenes fame and soundnes of faith therefore the Pope ought to haue dominion ouer all Churches Christ said to Peter feed my sheepe f DVR Jt is manifest by this place that Christ gaue greater authoritie of feeding to Peter than to the other Apostles and so made him head of all his Church WHIT. p. 744. It will not follow vpon this place that Peter had greater authority to feed or that he only must feede all for he said to them all alike Matth. 28.19 Goe yee teach all nations and Iob. 20 21. As the Father sent me so I send you Therefore he spake so often then to Peter to confirme him after his grieuous fall that he might not doubt of his Apostolicall calling as saith Augustines treatise on Iohn 123. so that it no whit concerneth the Pope therefore Peter is the chiefe principall Pastor of the Church The Lord made two great lights the Sunne g DVR The Pope vseth this as a similitude to amplifie not as an argument to prooue by authoritie WHIT. pag. 746. This is an idle shift a similitude is an argument and Johannes Andraeas would prooue hereby that the Pope excelleth the Emperor in dignitie seuentie times seuen degrees the Moone therfore the Pope excelleth the Emperour in honour and greatnes Heere are two swords therfore the h DVR VVe gather nothing hence but vvhat Bernard did saying This sword of temporall povver is thine
256. nota 68 A belieuing man may haue remission of his sinnes though the Minister who pronounceth it intend no such thing pag. 256 69 It is not the dutie of the Minister of the Gospell to reade prayers by the houre but to giue diligence to reading exhortation and doctrine pag. 257 70 Christians are bound to obey the lawes of Magistrates but are freed from the religion of them Their particular lawes binde not the conscience though men must obey their gouernment for conscience sake pag. 267. â—58 nota The summe of the ninth Answere touching the sophismes of the Aduersarie 1 Iesuits be chiefe Sophisters and kings of all other in the kingdome of Poperie pag. 263 2 The sophismes of the Papists by which they would ouerthrow the marriage of Ministers and Deacons pag. 264 3 Pope Innocent thought marriage dutie to be an vnholy thing ibid. nota 4 Their sophismes for the Popes supremacie and his excellencie aboue the Emperor that he is not to be reprooued that he cannot erre pag. 265. 266. 267 5 Though one Pastor haue rule ouer one flocke it followeth not one must haue ouer all ibid. nota 6 Their sophismes for priuat Masse the Priests communicating alone that the people must haue onely one part pag. 267 7 Their sophismes that prayers must bee in an vnknowne 〈◊〉 us that the people may not reade the Scriptures pag. 268 8 Their sophismes that the bread is Christs bodie and that it is to be worshipped that election is for merit ibid. 9 Their sophismes that the sicke should bee anoynted that marriage is a sacrament That a Monkish life is warrantable by the examples of Elias and Iohn Baptist but it is vnsound pag. 269. nota 10 Their sophismes that there are seuen Sacraments that images must be set vp in Churches That we are iustified by charitie and not by faith ibid. 11 Their sophismes that men haue free will that Christ deliuered the Fathers out of Lambus that the authoritie of the Church is aboue the Scripture pag. 270 12 Their sophismes that all things are not written which are necessarie to saluation That men passe thorough the fire of Purgatorie to eternall life pag. 271 13 The place 2. Thes 2.15 doth not establish traditioÌ„s ibid. nota 14 The 1. Cor. 3.15 doth not prooue Purgatorie ibid. nota 15 Some sophismes of Campians ibid. 16 It is no sophisme from the commendation of mariage to ouerthrow the vow of virginitie pag. 272 17 The Prelates haue spoken most basely and impiously of mariage like to the ancient Heretikes pag. 273 18 They prefer virginitie before it without any Scripture and yet they make it a Sacrament and virginitie none pag. 272. nota 19 Mariage is honourable in all and impure in to degree pag. 273 20 Protestats vse no sophisme in disputing against merits ibid. 21 Papists teach that their merits dipped in Christs blood doth merit saluation that is that Christ hath merited by his blood that men might merit saluation pag. 274 22 That good works cannot merit is proued ibid. nota pag. 275 23 Neither Angels can nor Adam could merit any thing ibid. nota 24 Protestants vse no sophisme in disputing against worship of Saints ibid. 25 Saints are not to be worshipped or prayed vnto 275. nota 26 Duraeus saith the Saints are in farre distant places at once 276. nota 27 Papists blasphemies touching the Virgin Mary ibid. 28 Protestants vse no sophisme in disputing against the Masse and Purgatorie 277 29 Neither Masse nor Purgatorie is to be found in the scripture neither the names nor the things are there ibid. 30 In the Supper thâ—re was no sacrifice neither now can be nor vnbloodie sacrifice 278. nota 31 There is neither the name nor the office of a Priest in the new Testament appropriated to any one kinde of men 279 32 There is no sacrifice in the Gospell but that which is common to all to offer 280 33 The Church hath lawfull power to chuse her Ministers 280 nota 34 The Papists choise of meate and their set daies of fasting are ridiculous and superstitious 281 35 The examples of Elisha Daniel and Iohn Baptist will not warrant Popish fasts 282. nota 36 S. Paul reprooued the Galathians for obseruing dayes and times because they accounted it necessarie to saluation as Papists doe now teach 282. nota 37 Papists fastings condemned by the 1. Tim. 4.23 and differ from the old Christian fast ibid. 38 Aeâ—â—â—s was not condemned of the Church as an heretike for iudging of fasting as Protestants doe 283. nota 39 Auncient Christians fasted voluntarily not by canon or precept ibid. 40 The word Sacraments are the true notes of the Church 283.284 41 The Fathers in the greatest matters are wholy the Protestants 285. nota 42 Papists preferre the Fathers before the Canonicall Scriptures ibid. nota 43 By Aquinas his iudgement things are necessarily prooued by the Scripture but only probably by the Fathers ibid. The summe of the tenth Answere touching all manner of Witnesses 1 It is Campians witlesse kind of reasoning wheÌ„ an enumeration of all kind of witnesses to coÌ„clude all are on his side 299 2 They only find the way spoken of Isay 35.8 who are taught by Christ and be holy 300. nota 3 In visible particular Churches are good and bad not in the inuisible Catholike Church ibid. nota 4 No Iesuite nor any Papist can be in heauen because they haue the marke of the beast 301 5 Many Bishops of Rome are in heauen but neuer a Pope ibid. 6 Ignatius was not on the Papists side because he taught that a Bishop was aboue a King for Protestants hold the same for the administration of the offices of a Bishop Yet the King aboue him in commaunding him to doe them and in puâ—â—shing him if he neglect them 301.302 7 Protestants receiue Traditions so long as they agre with the writingâ— of the Apostles ibid. 8 Neither Telesphorus reuiued nor the Apostles ordained the fast of Lent ibid. nota 303 9 The decretall epistles of the Pope were not framed by them but by their parasites ibid. 10 Iâ—enaeus allowed not the succession of Bishops in Rome but while there was succession of truth with it ibid. 11 Victor could not make the Churches of Asia keepe Easter after the manner of the Romane Church but the Councell of Nice preuailed more ibid. nota 12 The Church of Smyrna neuer gathered the bones of Polycarpe for reliques but to burie them 304 13 Cornelius the Pope could neuer abolish the error which Cyprian and the Church of Affrike did hold ibid. nota 14 Sixtus was no more on the Papists side then on the Protestants because he had Deacons to help him to celebrate diuine seruice ibid. 15 Helenâ— iâ—â—he found the Crosse yet she worshipped it not as Pâ—pâ—â—tâ— do aâ—d thâ—t with â—aâ—râ—a 305. nota 16 Monâ—â—â— deâ—ired not to be sacrificed for at the Mâ—â—â—e for remission of sinne but to be
corrupt and counterfeit and with this you were put to silence and had not to answere only that you might probablie in shew conuince Luther of blasphemie you demaunded of our men their iudgment of this Epistle They cleerly answered that they accounted this Epistle of S. Iames as all other the Epistles and bookes of the new Testament to be Canonicall Affirming that all our Churches were of the same iudgement And from this you would conclude that Luther therefore was blasphemous because he had written that some probablie called the authoritie of this Epistle into question To this our men replied the consequence was naught from our reuerent opinion of this Epistle to inferre that whosoeuer made any question of it did blaspheme And heere you plainely yeelded For when you boasted of two other reasons that you had you produced none at all After this you came to the old Testament where you accuse vs to haue raced many bookes out of the true Canon The testimonie of Antiquitie was laid before you whence it was cleere that those bookes were not Canonicall Heere you preferred the late Councels and Fathers before the auncient which may not be permitted you And you set Austine in opposition against Hierom when it had been fitter you would haue reconciled them Augustine he affirmes these bookes to be Canonicall Hierome denies them yea expresly plainly and euidently For Augustine our men answered that he vsed the word Canonicall doubtfully or in diuers signification And that they shewed plainely out of Augustines owne words and Cardinall Caietans Augustine you shifted off and Caietan you audaciously reproached affirming that the Cardinall lost all his grace and elegancie when he once began to Comment vpon the Scriptures At length Campian you were forced euen in Gratian not without blushing to acknowledge this ambiguity of the word And whereas you could not be ignorant of auncient records it was a wonder to our men to see you write that we had of a sudden raced out these bookes Surely this word escaped you very vnlearnedly and inconsideratly we haue store both of auncient witnesses and of others succeeding them who will and can free vs from such imputation of Noueltie To passe by Origen and Eusebius Cyprian or whosoeuer he was that writ the exposition of the Creed we find among his workes after he had reckoned vp all the Canonicall bookes of the old and new Testament he addeth These are those bookes which the Fathers haue included in the Canon Cyprian in expos Symbo where they would that all the grounds of our faith should haue their foundation Yet we must know that there are other bookes which were not called of our predecessors Canonicall but Ecclesiasticall as the booke of Wisedome said to be Salomons and another booke of Wisdome said to be Syrackes Of the same rancke is the little booke of Toby and Iudith and the bookes of the Machabies To him I will adde another later in time and yet he writ 400. yeeres agoe Hugo de sancto victore a very learned man and famous in his time If you haue not read what he hath written in this kind reade it if you haue read it remember it with me after he had reckoned vp by name the Canonicall bookes of the old Testament in the end he thus writeth There are besides in the old Testament Hugo de Sanct. victore in prologo pomi lib. de Sacram. cap. 7. certeine other bookes which indeed we reade but are not written in the corpes of the text or in the authentike Canon As the booke of Toby and Iudith and Machabees and the booke called the Wisdome of Salomon and Ecclesiasticus I omit others and many which I could produce in this kind and that of all ages out of which the constant iudgement of the Church touching these bookes may be discerned Which being so doth it become you Campian to be so iniurious vnto vs so boldly to affirme that we haue latelie crossed out those bookes out of the Canon or which of vs wil be afraid of you triffling so childishly please not your self too much with your wit neither abuse the gifts and parts which you haue gotten by nature or industry to defend falshood and to vphold the kingdome of Antichrist Lay your hand vpon your hart and know your selfe well and cease from that arrogancie with which your vaine sect hath puffed you vp leaue off your lying shake off that Iesuiticall light be hauiour of yours And as Augustine perswaded Hierome take to you the grauitie of a Christian and make recantation For it is no dishonor to recant an error but to persist in it But let vs againe come to your preface There remaineth only for me say you an account to be giuen of my fact and euidently to shew and as it were with the finger to point at those Chapters and fountaines which breed in me such confidence But we Campian can see no cause at all why you should promise so great things of your self or so trust in those fountaines which are as vaine as may be and light as water for these your ten heads which haue made you so headie and bould are so many guilded lies vpon which if you relie your case is farre more lamentable then of those Iewes whom the Prophet Ieremie reproues Trust not in lying words Jer. 7.4 saying The Temple of the Lord The Temple of the Lord. And what is your Euensong but this or that which is farre more foolish and desperate But you say You are able enough to proue that this Sunne shineth now at midday Your sufficiencie all men may see You are as wel able Campian to turne the day into night and to pull the Sunne out of the heauens as defend these heads Those vnusuall boastings and promises so vsuall with you argue a mind proud and swelling with arrogancie and not indued with sound knowledge and learning The emptier the vessels be the lowder they sound VVhat insolencie I pray you made you adde that of Roscius Supposition as if the things you defend were as manifestly true as it is impossible any man should run 700. miles in two daies I am ashamed Campian to see how vaine you be and full of boasting and arrogancy What dare you vndertake to conuince all the most famous and excellent Churches of the world of error as directly and plainly as it is impossible for a man to walke 700. miles in two daies If Campian you can compasse the world in three daies if you can outgoe the Sun if touch the heauens with your fingers if number the starres if drinke vp the sea you may demonstrate the truth of your cause to which you are so deuoted But if those things surpasse your strength then shall you neuer make this good no though the whole knot of Iesuits ioyne with you Now whereas you intreate vs to haue a care of our soules health we take in good part your desire and endeuour of our saluation And indeed
this booke of the Babylonish captiuity he thus writeth of this Epistle I passe ouer that which many probablie affirme that this was not the Epistle of S. Iames the Apostle nor agreeing with the spirit of an Apostle These things very grauely and modestly hath Luther written concerning this Epistle of S. Iames d DVR Jf you had seene the copie printed at Jena you should see that Luther thus speaketh of this Epistle WHIT. p. 22. I acknowledge that Luther in a most auncient preface published by himselfe at Wittenberge 1525. called it a strawen Epistle in comparison of the Epistles of Saint Peter and Saint Paul but finde not that you affirme any where neuer culled it as you affirme a contentious barren swelling or a strawen Epistle though I deny not but Luther was of that opinion that he greatly called in question the Author and Argument of this Epistle And it had been your part who condemne his opinion to haue confuted his reasons Erasmus euidently writeth that this Epistle hath no tast of Apostolike authoritie so that Luther iudged more tolerably of this Epistle then Erasmus But howsoeuer the case stand Luther in his iudgment is not without the consent of the e DVR Jf he agreed with the first and purest Churches you differing from him doe dissent from them WHIT. I call them the purest Churches not for their sincere iudgement of this Epistle but for that they flourished in the best and purest times first and purest Churches And yet to let Luther passe we haue no other opinion of this Epistle then your selues haue and honor it as much as you thinke it deserues And let me promise and anow this for vs all whatsoeuer in this combate which you haue vndertaken you proue out of this Epistle we will most willingly imbrace and not shift it off as you suspect we will All the sentences of this Epistle we allow of and reiect not any one For as for that instance which you giue of sole faith it is but a sillie and lame tricke of your sophistry our doctrine of iustification by faith only is most true holy which S. Paul also clearely teacheth though he doe not f DVR Saint Paul neuer in plaine words hath affirmed our iustification by faith onlie WHIT. pag. 27. When S. Paul saith we are iustified by faith it is as much as by faith alone because faith respects onely mercy and withall excludeth workes Rom. 3.28 cap. 4.5.6 cap. 3.20 Gal. 2.16 and lastly he saith we are freely iustified by grace Eph. 2.7.8 Rom. 3.24 then he affirmes that faith only doth iustifie expressely vse these words Rom. 3.24.28 Faith alone And the auncient do so expound and interpret S. Paul Ambrose saith g DVR Ambrose by his sole faith excludeth only the workes of the ceremoniall law and so he speaketh in that place WHIT. pag. 33. It is enough that he affirmeth that this is S. Paules position we are iustified by faith only And when he excludeth only the workes of the ceremoniall law in that he is against the iudgement of Augustine and Hierome and himselfe also in lib. 2. cap. 2. de Iacob vita beata They are iustified only by faith it is the gift of God h DVR Basil excludes only those workes which are wrought by the sole power of freewill WHIT. pag. 38. Basil excludes not only the workes wrought by the power of freewill but euen those which proceed from faith and grace for he produced S. Paul and Saint Peter whom he denies to haue been iustified by workes yet had they both faith and grace Basil saith They are iustified by faith alone in Christ. i DVR Nazianzene excludeth only that high knowledge of diuine mysteries WHIT. pag. 41. Nazianzene excludes not only that high knowledge of diuine mysteries but also by it all other workes for seeing it is the most excellent and so excluding the greatest he must needs exclude the lesse Nazianzene saith Righteousnes consisteth in faith only Why should I recite any other sayings of other of the Fathers of the Church This doctrine is both Euangelicall and Apostolicall contrary to this if Iames or an Angell from heauen should preach let him be held as impious wicked and accursed But you will say S. Iames denies iustification by faith only yea affirmes that we are iustified by workes We answere that the Apostle speaketh of a k DVR Saint Iames speaketh not of a faigned faith for how can be theÌ„ speake of Abrahams faith how is it fayned to beleeue that God is WHIT. pag. 42. S. Iames speakâ—th of a fayned faith as is plaine vers 14. for it is in words only vers 15.16 it giueth nothing when reliefe is required verse 17. it is without workes and dead vers 18 only that is true faith which can be shewed by workes heere no workes vers 19. It is only such a faith as the diuels haue so a fayned and dead faâ—th pag. 44. And Augustine thus expoundeth it De fide oper Cap. 14. in Psal 31. in Praefat. and pag 45. Though Abrahams faith was a true faith because it shewed it selfe by true fruites and true workes that proues not but their faith is fayned who haue no workes Of which Saint Iames speaketh pag. 46. faith is not the lesse fayned and vaine because it beleeues that God is seeing Saint Iames affirmeth the diâ—els beleeue as much feigned dead idle and counterfeite faith which many boasted of and falsly perswaded themselues they were iust by it This faith which we may more truly call a carcase of faith Saint Iames denieth to be sufficient for saluation to any and he that is iustified he teacheth must be iustified by workes that is must be proued and declared to be iust for it must needs be that faith be liuing fruitfull and accompanied with good works that all may clearely perceiue and discerne you are indued with true faith And so doth S. Iames very fitly accord with S. Paul while he disputes from the effects when as S. Paul argueth from the cause The principall immediate cause of our iustification S. Paul makes faith S. Iames writeth that a man is iustified by workes that is euery man by his workes as by most pregnant testimonies is l DVR It is ridiculous to thinke that Saint Iames should teach men how to shew themselues iust and speake nothing of true iustice WHIT. pag 47. We say not that Saint Iames teacheth only how a man may obtaine the opinion of iustice with men but how he may shew and declare himselfe by certaine proofes and arguments to be indued with true iustice And that this place toucheth the declaration of true faith by workes and so the demonstration of our iustification not we but your owne men do so teach Thomas Aquin. in Iacob 2. Glossa-Ordin in Iacob knowne and acknowledged iust while his inuisible faith is witnessed and declared by his visible workes
changed so that it is no maruell if the custome of the Church at one time interpret the Scriptures after this manner another time after that Was there euer the like bouldnes heard of that men would wrest the eternall and immutable word of God which euer hath but one and the same sense to serue the will of the Church that is of the Pope of Rome Thom. 1. â— 1. art 10. besides this you haue made so many h DVâ— The Fathers and Antiquity haue euer made these foure senses of the Scriptures WHIT. pag. 163. To faine such foure senses in euery sentence differeth not much from a learned kind of madnes Allegories I confesse many are in the Scriptures but such as the holy Ghost himselfe hath made but to make other Allegories when the words may be vnderstood without a Trope or when the Grammaticall sense is not absurd and repugnant to sound doctrine I thinke is too great bouldnesse and temerity A Tropologicall sense is not a new sense differing from the Grammaticall but one â—s it were with it Finally if the Fathers as men haue erred must we needs follow their errors The Fathers reiected the errors and false interpretations of their predecessors why may not we deale so with them senses of euery place to wit an allegoricall a tropological an anagogicall sense that by your Ledgerdemaine you haue abolished the true and natiue sense Now Campian since you know that this is the manner of your Church in the interpreting of the Scripture than which what can be more corrupt how dare you presume to reprehend our manner of interpretation But we follow no other course then that which the Fathers haue prescribed and which the thing it selfe argues to be most fit For that is our course which Augustine aduised we interpret obscure places by those which are plainer we obserue the phrase and stile of the Scripture we weigh circumstances we compare scripture with scripture we go not one iot from the Analogie of faith They who take this course adioyning their harty prayers that the Lord would open this sealed booke vnto them and teach them the true sense of the scripture shall neuer need to runne to Rome and enquire of that sacred Oracle of the Pope who himselfe neither vnderstandeth the true sense of scripture neither is able to expound them to others But to returne now to Campian what is the vsuall fault he finds in our dealing with the scripture and what be the arguments by which he doth confute vs Let vs demaund saith he for example sake of our Aduersaries what caused them to deuise this new opinion whereby Christ is excluded out of the mysticall Supper We Campian do not i DVR If you place Christs body and your supper so farre asunder how do you not exclude h m from iâ— WHIT. pag. 168. It is true if things that are seuered could no way be ioyned but by a corporall ouching but without it it may fitly be as all beleeuers are ioyned together though they be farre distant and distracted one from another as Iewes Grecians and all other godly make but one body with Christ what is that bond of this vnion but the power of the spirit Such an vnion is this in the SacrameÌ„t and it hath the some bond exclude Christ out of the Supper neither do we otherwise thinke of the Sacrament then both Christ hath taught vs and the old Church hath prescribed We certeinly affirme that the faithfull in the supper receiue whole Christ God and Man we beleeue and teach that they eate his body and drinke his blood Neither doubt we to affirme but that he that comes to the supper and doth not in the supper partake of Christ that he is in danger of condemnation Doe we now exclude Christ from the supper But whosoeuer includeth Christ in the supper as you doe he faineth and forgeth a new Christ to himselfe he confoundeth heauen and eartâ— together he offereth violence to nature and muâ—â— needs admit innumerable absurdities Wherfore we following the scripture as our schole-masters not taking vp any new opinion place the naturall and humane body of Christ in heauen for so the Apostle Peter speaketh whom the heauens must conteine vntill the time that all things be restered Act. 3.21 yet the k DVR Theâ— is Christ as present in Baptisme and in the word and wheresoeuer your faith seekes for him as in the supper yea as present to the Fatherâ— in the old Testament as now to vs. WHIT. pag. 169. So questâ—onlesse he is vnlâ—sse all men be without hope of life and saluation who are depriued of the Supper For John 6.53 yea all Christians communicate of Christ alike as well such as come to the supper as they who cannot partake in it And that he was present to the Fathers it is proued 1. Cor. 10.3.4 vertue the communion the benefit of this body we exclude not from the supper but stifly maintaine that in the supper whole Christ is present to each mans faith This is the summe of our opinion which I no lesse doubt to be the true sense of the scripture then that Christ is Christ or that to be scripture which is scripture This opinion out of all others which we hold haue you made choice of as an example to impugne and gain-say Let vs see now how scholler-like you acquite your selfe If they name the Gospell say you we ioyne with them The very words make for vs. This is my body this is my blood I acknowledge the words do but I enquire now for the sense of them whether they should be so expounded as your Church teacheth that the bread is Transubstantiated into the bodie and the wine into the blood of Christ or by a Trope and in a mysticall sense that the bread is the Sacrament the signe and symboll of the body and so the wine of the blood of Christ as we interpret them Whether opinion hath more truth in it we will now discusse As for that which you tell vs of Luther I suppose you will not expect any answere from me and vndoubtedly in this thing Luther was farre more opposite to your opinion then ours For he euer condemned your Transubstantiation as it is for an accursed inuention and fiction of Satan Luther we acknowledge was a man who though he saw the truth in many things yet he might erre in some things his good things wee embrace but wee are bound by no law to defend his errors But how shal we find out the meaning of this saying Let vs trie out this say you by the words thereto adioyning Nothing can be spoken more truly nothing more fitly nor more ingenuously And verely I could wish you would alwaies doe as you pretend in this place to doe sist out the meaning of the scripture by the circumstances of the words But what are the words adioyning My body which is giuen for you my blood which is shed for you
then marry that M. Doctor Martin Luther or M. Philip Melangthon or certeinly M. Zuinglius or without doubt M. Caluin and M. Beza haue faithfully intreated vpon those matters Tell vs Frier what should hinder why euery one of these you haue nominated may not as faithfully intreate of thâ—se things as those who haue liued before them in ages past what wanted they which the other had what skill of art what knowledge of the toÌ„gues what other helpes there is not any one of these but hath far surpassed in learning and all deserued commendation the whole society of Iesuits But why doe I compare these burning lights bright starres of piety and religion with the base scumme of your Doctors and this now is another of your reasons why you were so desirous to haue audience in the Vniuersity Schooles If you be Campian sodesirous as you would make the world beleeue I maruell why you are so long a comming for our schooles were euer open for you but you could neuer find the way into them If you hereafter come you shall find many in our schooles that will encounter with you in all kind of learning And heere you end your discourse of the right sense of the Scriptures EDMVND CAMPIAN The third Reason which is the nature of the Church SO soone as the Aduersarie heard the Church named hee waxed wanne yet notwithstanding hee hath deuised one thing which I would wish you to note well that thereby you may perceiue the ruine and hard shifts of falsehood The enemie perceiued that both in the a Apoc. 2. Psal 7. Isay q. 32. Cant. 6. old and new b Mat. 13. Ephes 5. 1. Cor. 12. 1. Tim. 3. Ioan. 15. Matth. 16. Matth. 18. Testament there is euery where * The scripture maketh honorable mention of the Church therefore the Romane Church is that true Church of Christ of which the Scripture speaketh so â—â—ten honorable mention made of the Church and that it is called a holy citie a fruitfull vineyard an high hill a direct path the only doue the kingdome of heauen the spouse and bodie of Christ the pillar of truth the multitude vnto which the holy Ghost being promised powreth all things needfull to saluatioÌ„ The congregation against all which the gates of hell shall neuer so preuaile that they shall vtterlie extinguish the same The congregation which who so repugneth though he confesse Christ with his mouth yet hath he no more to doe with Christ then hath a Publican and heathen man He durst not say any thing against this openly neither would hee seeme to gain-say that Church whereof the Scriptures so often make mention He kept craftily still the name of the Church but the thing it self by describing it he * This is false for your definition maketh a true Church took quite away For he hath portraied the Church with such properties as doe altogether hide it and make it as if it were Plato his Idea c Caluin Jnst. lib. 4. cup. 1. Num. 2.3 Apoc. 1.2 3. vnapt to be seene with the senses but subiect to the priuy insight and speculation of a very few men such onely as by speciall inspiration might in their imagination comprehend this arrie bodie and could likewise with a sharpe eye discerne such as are members of this chosen societie what is become of truth where is plaine dealing what Scriptures what iust iudgmentes what Fathers describe the Church in this sorte * Particular Churches are visible therefore the Catholik Church is visible There are Epistles in the Apocalyppes of S. Iohn written by d Act. 8.10.11 seq Christ himselfe to the seauen Churches which were in Asia There are also diuerse Epistles written by S. Peter S. Paul S. Iohn and by others vnto sundry Churches In the Actes of the Apostles we finde mention made of many Churches begun and enlarged what were those were they knowne to God onelie and to his Saintes or also to all sortes of Christians But truly necessitie is a deadly dart pardon them for they that all these * This is false our doctrine hath been deriued from Christ himselfe vnto vs by the faithfull of all ages 1500 yeeres cannot spie out so much as one time one village one house embrued with their doctrine vntill that vnhappie e Lutherus Moncke by his incestuous marriage had destoured a Nunne dedicated to God by former solemne vowe or vntill that quarrelling Swizer f Zuinglius had conspired against his countrie or vntill that infamous runagate g Caluinus had vndertaken an vsurped authoritie in Geneua If they will haue any Church at all they must needes fetch the same out of blind corners and challenge those for their ancestors whom they neither knew themselues neither any mortall man hath seene except they brage of such forefathers who were manifest heretiques as Aerius Iouinianus Henri Pantal in Chrenogra Heluidius Vigillantius the Image breakers Berengarius Waldensis Lothardus Wyclife Husse of all which they haue begged some peices of their diuelish doctrine Maruaile not though I haue not feared these smoders which if I shall once come to the cleare light I shall easily expell For this is our speech together Tell me dost thou beleeue as the Church doth which flourished these many hundred yeeres past Yea verilie let vs therefore discourse of our countries and times what Church dost thou beleeue The congregation of the faithfull whosenames are vnknowne but it is apparant that many such haue been Is it apparant that manie such haue been To whom it is apparant To God who saith so we that haue receiued our doctrine from God himselfe This is a loude lie how may I beleeue it If thou were feruent in faith thou should know this as assuredlie as thou dost that thou art aliue Can you refraine laughing when you heare such foolish answers All Christian people are commannded to cleaue fast vnto the Church they are warned to take heed lest they be slaine with the spirituall sword they are bid keepe peace in the house of God to commit their soules in trust vnto this pillar of truth there to make all their complaints to take for heathen all such as are cast out of this Church and yet all that haue so many men so manie hundred yeeres been ignorant where that Church is or who belong vnto it will they in darkenesse still stand vpon that point that where or in what place soeuer the Church is there are contained therein onely saints and such as are predestinate to goe to heauen whereby it falleth out that if any man will refuse to obey his prelate he may thinke himselfe to be blamelesse in so doing if hee perswade himselfe that his said prelate hath committed any great offence by that meanes is excommunicated out of the Church When I perceiued that my aduersaries inuented such deuises and that they would not associate themselues to any Church that heretofore hath been
what may be feared of them namely lest that rather then they should not many they would waâ— waâ—â—on against Christ and breake their first faith which is not their vow but the profession of Christian religion which such light buswiues would easily coâ—â—â—â—â— that they might inioy their pleasures And that this is his meaning the 1â— verse sheweth For certeine are already turned backe after Satan shewing what some had done he admonisheth them to be wary lest others should do the like And as for the Fathers if they did also expound these words as indeed they doe not yet the argument is very weake in diuinity The Fathers haue thus expounded it therefore the exposition is true Luther indeed tooke to wife in holy wedlocke a Virgin that once was intangled by a rash superstitious vow after she had bin more rightly instructed in the truth of religion Exclaime bitterly as you list Call Zuinglius also a swash buckler seeing your self is a player of a Price But tell vs wherein he did euer shew himselfe such a cutter forsooth he boldly ventered his life with his fellow citizens Slerdum lib. 8. Occolam Ephes lib. 4. If Zuinglius at the commaund of the Senate went to warre against the enemies of his couÌ„trie religion where he perished by cruell theeues who lay in waite for him what did he vnbefitting a valiant man a good citizen and a faithfull Pastor to do For whereas you challenge him with conspiracie against his country besides that it is a shamelesse lie I wonder why you should obiect such a crime to him seeing with you it is a thing very commendable for men to conspire against their Prince and country As for Caluin whom you call a seareback runagate the whole Church of Christ knoweth to be an excellent man and a most constant seruant of the Lord who was as farre from lewdnes and dishonastie as you are from shamefastnes and honesty If he was seared S. Paul was so too Gal. 6.17 yea diuers others but indeed he was not And whereas you call him a runagate I pray you tell vs where you haue liued for these diuers yeares and remember what your selfe were Caluin neuer forsooke the Church hee once tooke vpon him to gouerne but there he liued with the speciall loue of all and there he ended his daies but why doe I answere you anything in defence of those excellent and worthy men whom you shal neuer iustly defame though you burst your hart with lying But let vs now heare your communication as you call it And heere you demaund Whether we will subscribe to the Church which flourished these many hundred youres we answere we will subscribe but say you to which Church I answere r DVR He did not demaund whether you would subscribe to that Church which had continued in the precept of the Apostles but vvhether to that Church vvhich hath flourished these many hundred yeares vvhich if you vvould you must needs yeeld as ouercome vvhen none but ours haue flourished thus long WHIT. pag. 285. As if no Church but the Romish Church had flourished these many hundred yeares or for many ages together in the opinion of men it only hâ—â— the name of â—â—e church 〈…〉 will subscribe to all Churches whether they flourished now 〈…〉 they hold the Apostles doctrine but you shall neuer proue 〈◊〉 we must necessarily subscribe to place Sea succession no more then Christ his disciples were bound when there was no true Church flourishing vpon the earth to the Church which is built vpon the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles that is to the Churches of Hierusalem Antioch Ephesus and all those famous and excellent Churches of which wee reade in the Epistles written by the Apostles yea euen to the auncient Church of Rome to which yours is no more like then an apple to an oysteâ— Finally we subscribe to those Churches of whom we reade in histories that they kept the seed of that doctrine which the Apostles taught among them sound vncorrupt These Churches as long as they did continue in the Apostles doctrine were true Churches to those Churches we haue and euer will subscribe And by this I thinke we haue cut off the progresse of your conference for we haue not giuen you such an answere as you fained to your selfe Wherefore that which followeth in you hangeth together like a rope of sand but no answere will please you vnlesse we offer to subscribe to your Romish Church but that we iustly disclaime because it hath fouly corrupted the â—â—â—stles writing You must find you out other subscribers Campian for wee will subscribe to none but the Apostolicall Churches But one thing say you they will still stand vpon in darkenes that where and in what place soeuer the Church is there are conâ—eiued therein only Saints and such as are predestinate to go to heauen We speake not so of the Church as you write for we are taught by the Scriptures thus to distinguish the Church that it is sometimes Å¿ DVR I beleeue only one Catholike Church as the Apostles and Nicene Creed hath taught me which conteineth both the elect and as many as professe true religion Now you teach me to beleeue two Churches WHIT. pag. 286. This distinction taketh not away the vnity of the Church no more then when the Church is said to be mâ—â—â—an and uâ—â—â—phant vniuersall and particular For the visible and â—â—uisible Church make but one called visible for the outward policy or order of it which is seene and discerned inuisâ—ble because Gods election and the electes faith is not to be seene with eies And this distinction we haue Esay 1.9 Matth. 22.14 As for the Creedes you mention we beleeue them in this point aswell as you But tell vs this one Catholike Church what is it If you restraine the name to the visible Church first you exclude both that in heauen of the Saints and that which shall be of these which aâ—e vnborne and yet do belong to the Catholike Church secondly you place faith in the sense which the Apostle saith is of things which are not seene Heb. 11.1 As for that Catholike Church which we beleeue it is the company of all the elect euen as many as haue been from the beginning of the world and shall be to the end therefore it is called the Apostolike and holy Church the communion of Saints And to this communion belong no prophane and wicked men no hypocrites because they haue no fellowship with Christ For the holy Church is the mysticall body of Christ of which body no member can at any time perish visible and sometimes inuisible In a particular visible Church of which they are members who will heare the Word and receiue the Sacraments we confesse there are many fained Christians who had rather haue the visard of faith then true faith indeed An inuisible Church we affirme to containe only the godly who with a
a witles kinde of reasoning is this first to recken vp the Saints in Heauen and say these are ours Then to number vp the damned Iewes Gentiles Turkes Heretikes and affirme those are the enemies of our Church To rehearse those Countries that haue been conuerted to the faith of Christ and conclude by and by these are of our Religion would you take this man to bee well in his wits compassing Heauen Earth and Hell so childishly a DVR Jf heere he any thing ridiculous then may you laugh at the Prophet vvho aâ— speedily runnes ouer the whole world And S. Paul tooke a testimony for a truth out of the beathen Poet Act. 17 2â— WHIT. pag. 856. Who knoweth not that God may be knowne by his creatures religion illustrated by nature vncorrupt but what nature I pray you hath taught CamptaÌ„ thus to iudge of the heauenly spirits and the damned soules and of the whole frâ—me of things can he learne by nature that those who haue professed the Popish religion doe novv enioy heauenly happines and that they who dislike it are tormented in hell These weapons of Campian were those that impure Symmachus opposed Christian religion withall Ambros Epist 30. Prudent contra Symmachum ridiculouslie and impertinently taking vnto himselfe what he liketh and reiecting the rest A worthie cauil fit for none but Iesuites which when a man hath by one negatiue discharged can neuer be proued by their peruerse sect and whole societie These dreames of yours Campian are vnworthie any answere one word of denial confutes this whole Chapter I will not bestow much time in answering this Sophisme so vnhansomely framed and patched together it shall suffice lightly to passe and only touch euery thing in a word First therefore you alledge the prophecie of Esay of a straight way wherein the simple should not erre b DVR You shew your ignorance in the Prophet for he speaketh not of the way to the Church but of the Church it selfe vvhich is the high way to heauen WHIT. pag. 857. Howsoeuer you interpret the way it maketh neither much for me nor for you The question is who shall find out that way and walke in it for it is not discerned of all because it is a plaine way nor held of all because it is a right way but he that hath learned Christ is he that walketh in this way without any error though he be but sillie and vnskilfull DVR Jf this be so then can it not be the true Church which conteineth sinners and men polluted And the Fathers by this place exclude only those who are not clensed by Baptisme WHIT. pag. 858. The Prophet speaketh of the Church of the elect and Saints because he saith vers 8. The polluted shall not passe by it and vers 20. the redeemed only whose ioy shall be euerlasting but the visible Church conteineth those which are impure whom Christ hath not redeemed and whose ioy shall perish As for Baptisme it purgeth none but such as lay hold of the promise of free iustification by Christ as Tit. 3.5 Heere the Prophet describes the entrance into Christs Church viz. that it should be ready plaine and easie But this way brings vs not to your Church c for of this way the Prophet reports that no prophane man no Lion or cruell beast shall be found in it whereas all your waies are compassed with polluted men raging beasts Lions Beares Leopards Dragons Diuels and in conclusion they leade miserably bewitched men vnto wofull destruction As for vs we treade that way which Christ and his Apostles haue traced out before vs wee auoyde your erroneous and strange waies because it is the way of sinners that you sâ—â—â—d in which way whosoeuer treadâ— Psal 1.1 Rom. 3.17 the way of peâ—ce they haue not knowne First vnderstand the path well your selues and then direct the way vnto vs. Let vs say you asâ—â—â—d into heauen I feare you Iesuites haue no place there Heauen is for Christians not Iesuites But suppose your selues for the time to be in heauen what followeth Let vs behold say you the Martyrs 33. Bishops of Rome slaine together the Vniuersall Pastors companies of the faithfull all holie Saints Well suruey Campian heauen it selfe and all the heauenly host looke well in all the parts and coasts of it whiles you list you shall not find there vpon my word one Iesuit not one Papist for none shall stand in Mount Zion with the Lamb Apoc. 14.1 that haue receiued the marke of the beast or belong vnto Antichrist But in heauen are 33. Bishops of Rome and many more I doubt not but of all these name me one if you can of your religion whom you may iustly claime as yours Those were holy and faithfull Bishops which shed their bloud for the name of Christ But your Popes for these many hundred yeares what else haue they done but persecuted Christ and murthered his true seruants If those 33. Bishops be in heauen as doubtlesse they are how many late Popes could I recken vp which possibly cannot be where they are in all things they are so vnlike them You pick out a few let vs see who these are Ignatius say you was ours why I pray you He thought no man equall to the Bishop in causes ecclesiasticall not the King himselfe and left in writing certaine Apostolike traditions neither say we that any man is to be compared with the Bishop in such things as belong to his office d DVR If these be so proper to Bishops that they cannot belong to Kings then you being iudge the Queene cannot be the head of the English Church WHIT. pag. 160. We acknowledge no other head of the Church saue Christ And Prince though they may not do any of thâ—se 〈◊〉 yet they rule ouerthem who doe and ought to command them diligently to execute their offices which if they neglect they ought to reproue compell and punish them as we reade the good Kings of the Church Iewish and Christian haue euer done and the reason hath no force Princes haue no authoritie to preach therefore they haue no authority to punish those who teach false doctrine to their people He only ought to ouersee holy things viz. instruction of the people administration of the Sacraments vse of the keyes of the kingdome of heauen These are matters of great weight and exceed the kingly authority yet are Kings aboue Bishops in wealth honor gouernment maiestie and they may lawfully both admonish them of their dutie and restraine them when they offend If Bishops herein would equall themselues with Kings it were too intolerable As for the Apostles traditions which Ignatius hath left in writing we receiue them so farre as they agree with the Apostolicall Scripture if they dissent from those we refuse them The Epistles of Ignatius were most of them counterfet as euery man may see heere you rehearse many and still the vndersong is these are ours Telesphorus say
names of S. Peter S. Paul and of Apollo Besides the difference is very great not in the name but in things also As thus Let the question be whether the Crosse and Image of Christ bee to bee worshipped with the same kind of worship that Christ is adored withall Doth not this appertaine to faith But error in this will be plaine Idolatrie And yet you know some of the Schoolemen stand for it some against iâ— what of that question which hath exercised al Churches and Schooles so long Whether the Virgin Marie had originall sinne or was euer pure and without spot And infinite such differences I omit being matter of faith Thomist Scotist Dominican Franciscan or Iesuite when you haue answered me touching those I will answere as touching Luther You call the Throne of God to witnes that if there be any heauen at all it is proper to you In any case auouch this boldly and confidently though he that looks into your lines may wel thinke there is no heauen at all For neither will you enter into heauen your selues nor suffer those that would and the liues of those of your side are such as are far fitter for hell then for heauen I know not Campian what heauen you dreame of if you meane the eternall habitation of God and his Saincts I take God to witnes the maker of this palace and all the heauenly citizens that there no place can be for you Papists false Catholicks Iesuites As you haue deuised a new faith whereby you must enter thither so must you seeke a new heauen in this you may not be God graunt you may returne at length into the right way that leadeth into heauen Now being fallen from heauen The damned you looke into hell I wish Campian you could seriously view those infernall regions and places of the damned for though I do willingly thinke nothing but well of the dead yet I feare you should find too too many of theÌ„ that haue flourished in your Church in those places Certainely to say nothing of the rest your later Popes as those which were called by the names of Boniface Innocent Siluester Gregory Calixt Vrbane Alexander Adrian Pius Leo Paul almost all the rest were such as hardly can any man thinke they could enter into heauen And further I call Christ the only teacher of heauenly doctrine to record that such is your faith and religion that who so maintaines it fullie and wholie cannot raigne with Christ nor be partaker of that heauenly life and therefore not Iewes only Pagans Turks and notorious Heretikes are tormented in that fire that neuer goes out but Papists also of all Heretikes the most vile and odious Infinite are the soules of Christian men which haue been throwne headlong into this most wofull destruction these many hundred yeares by that Antichrist of yours who alone hath more inlarged that infernall kingdome then all Iewes Nerves Mahomets Arians Nestorians Macedonians Eutychians and the rest To you Campian I wish that saluation which coÌ„sisteth in the true knowledge of God and whom he hath sent Iesus Christ and desire from my hart that now at length you will renounce that Romane Antichrist with whom you haue conuersed and returne vnto Christ the onely giuer of eternall life from whom too long you haue banished your selfe But let vs consider what these damned ones will further your cause Jewes The Iewes you begin with and heere you reckon Hierusalem holy places our Sauiours Sepulcher the Manger Crosse and other 〈◊〉 from all which you cannot draw one argument for your purpose I denie not but great concourse of people thronged vnto the Citie partly to heare and see the Apostles whiles they liued and also to behold those places where Christ the Sonne of God had conuersed and at Ierusalem were many things which might moue and perswade men to goe thither that were any thing curiously inclined And although the Church then was too much addicted to these obseruations and as a Spouse exceedingly delighted with any remembraÌ„ce of her deceassed husband yet was she then farre from those superstitious p DVR VVee doe but imitate our fore fathers who did such things not of curiosity but religiously Hier. Epist ad Macel Pailon August Epist ad Clerum Pop. Hipp. WHIT. pag. 878. But Christ saith Joh. 4.21.23 If then I may worship God with great fruiâ—e in mine owne countrie I see not why I should go to Hierusalem or any other place on Pilgrimage And if I haue the authoritie of the Scriptures obiect not vnto mee Hierom or Augustine or any other whoÌ„ I cannot allow to speake without Scripture against Scripture And as for Fathers know you not that Gregorie Nyssen hath with pregnant reason confuted all superstitious peregrinations wâ—it not Bernard Monkes must search for the heauenly not earthly Hierusalem vvhich they must goe vnto not by their feete but by affections pilgrimages and dotings on Images which with you Papists is now vsuall Neither was this often recourse of Christians into those places the cause of the Iewes hatred vnto theÌ„ as you vntruly surmise but the Gospell was the true cause of difference betwixt them and vs. Rom. 11.28 They vrge Moses wee teach that Moses must giue place to Christ q DVR They hate vs not so much for our faith and profession as because wee haue spoiled them of their kingdome and Priest-hood and haue cast them out of their countrie WHIT. pag. 877. But what Christian euer spoiled the Iewes of their kingdome or thus expelled them Did Caligula Titus or Adrian destroy the Iewes for the religion of Christ And if they hated you because you haue bereft them of their Priest-hood why not vs for the Gospell which teacheth that the Priesthood is translated from the posterity of Aaron vnto Christ from hence only proceeds their hatred vnto vs but you are odious vnto theÌ„ in many respects r DVR Many Jevves haue become Catholikes but not Caluinists as Jeuer heard of WHIT. pag. 878. We desire they might be made Christians not Caluinists as our Churches hath many of them I will 〈◊〉 you one of whom it were strange you should not haue heard Emanuell Treâ—â—lius a Iew borne being brought to the religion of Christ whom Caluin loued dearely and his Catechisme he translated into the Hebrew tongue your manifold idolatries continually hindering them from receiuing the Gospell of Christ Remoue your idols that we all that are called Christians may worship God in spirit and truth The Iewes then will ioyne themselues vnto vs and will speedily in great multitudes betake themselues to the sheepfold of Christ The Iewes complaine they haue been destroyed by your Auncestors whom meane you the Romanes who raced the Citie vnder the conduct of Titus These were enemies of the faith of Christ will you be their posteritie or what other Auncestors haue you that haue been author of so great calamitie vnto the Iewes They haue I graunt
2. cap. 35. whom they vsually called Atheist but an other Aetius the likenes of the names deceiued you To that you obiected concerning Vigilantius and Iouinian an answere is formerly giuen a DVR You speake vvitâ—ilie but you must of necessity do the one WHIT. pag. 884. If they haue defended any thing against the Scriptures they are heretikes but if not they cannot bee condemned by the iudgement of any Church for my part I neither meane to defend them nor can I greatly accuse thâ—m If they were hereticks conuince them of some error they held against the scriptures Hieromes passions can make no man an heretick Now you bring in the swarme of hereticks Macedonians PelagiaÌ„s Nestorians Eutychians the Mâ—â—otholites and Iconomachs These first we hate as hell it selfe those last haue committed nothing deseruing the name of hereticks To set vp and worship Images is hereticall but not to ouerthrow them What you iudge touching Luther and Caluinâ— is nothing materiall whiles they liued they nothing regarded you now they are dead they despise you what will you conclude at length from this hereticall companie Aâ—â— these you say forsooke the gouerment of your Church and were ouerthrowne by them Nay Campian these were your forefathers and you their progenie and successors for your monster of Poperie hath been hatched by the impure commixtion of all heresies But you now appeare out of hell Lands and are come to land and wheresoeuer you cast your eyes or thoughts All is your own as you say all subiect themselues and subscribe to your religion Me thinks I see that brainsick Merchant who standing by the sea and beholding the ships cried out all he saw was his owne otherwise such senselesse dreames could not proceed but from a wit and iudgement exceedingly weakned Sedes Apostolica For say you the Romane succession witnesseth in which Church as Austen speaketh the Primacie of the Apostolike chaire hath alwaies had the preeminence Many causes there were why speciall accompt in times past should be made of the church of Rome especially for that Rome was the seate of the Empire as approued in the Councell held at Constantinople Concil Constantinop 1. cap. 5. b DVR VVhy then may not he that is Bishop of this Church be ouer all other Bishops and so the Prince of Priests the chiefe Priest and supreame head of the rest WHIT. pag. 885. Because authoritie and dominion is not proper to them who are more excelleÌ„t then others which may bee shewed by infinite examples Who can be ignorant that the tribe of Iudah was the chiefe the first and the Prince of the other tribes will it therefore follow that the head of the principall family in this tribe had authoritie ouer all other tribes Aristotle was accounted the prince of Philosophers Homer of Poets Hippocrates of Physitians Apelles of Painters did they therefore exercise authoritie ouer all the rest of the same profession So though for a long time together the church of Rome for many respects was excellent among the rest yet it neuer had domination and rule ouer the rest of the Churches of Christ I graunt therefore thaâ—â—his Church was accompted the supreme chiefe greatest and the principall preferred before other Churches Trow you hence to conclude the Bishop of Rome is the chiefe and principall Bishop or head of the Church Concil Carthag 3. cap. 26. Dist 99 prima sedis Austen himselfe forbid it in the Councell of Carthage viz. that the Bishop of the chiefe Sea should not be called Prince of Priests or any like title Although then the holy Fathers for diuers respects gaue the preheminence to the church of Rome yet â—â—d they neuer acknowledge c DVR This prohibition was giuen by the Fathers because they knew that aâ— the soueraignty of the Apostolike Chaire did euer flourish in the Romane Church so they did not doubt but the manner of the chiefe Priest did appertainâ— onely to the Bishop of Rome WHIT. pag. 885. Nay the prohâ—bition of the Councell did as well concerne the Bishop of Rome whom all acknowledge to be the Bishop of the chiefe seate as the Bishops of other Seas Therefore for the time he obeyed the decree of the Councell and was content with his names and refused to be called the soueraigne chiefe Priest that infinite pâ—â—â—â—â—â—â—ll authority which he now challengeth neither â—â—d other Apostolike Churches whether they were founded by the Apostles themselues or by some of their schollers yeeld any testimonie of truth to the church of Rome Heere you stick in a quagmire and â—â—e faine by intreatie to beg that which by strong reason you should prooue and cannot But you vrge further and recompt the Pastors of seuerall countries to whaâ— end I pray you The remainderâ— say you of the labours of all those that haue published the Gospell in all nations farrs and wide all present vnto vs this same religion which Catholâ—kes at this day professe What could be affirmed more weakely for the Greeians are opposite vnto you which vnto this time haue their succession of Bishops not interrupted And further the spyeâ— which you send in your new found lands haue found in the furthest coasts thereof many monuments of that faith which we mainteine Osâ—rius neither may you preferre vs before them at least afore all you ought to preferre the truth Aristot. as the Philosopher saith But if you thinke your Popes and other glorious titles more auncient then the Gospell what can you alleage why Christ should not denie you to belong to him seeing you value any thing more then him Heere you tell vs of Princes Princes Kings Câ—sars Emperours and make a goodly shew of names as your manner is At length you meÌ„tion our noble Queenâ— Elizabeth and will needs teach her her dutie But she Campian needs no such Masters â—say 48. or instructiors She knoweth her selfe to be the nursing mother of the Church and that by diuine dispensation and accordingly doth she with all watchfulnes and care procure the good thereof and labours by all possible diligence to preuent all dangers intended by you and your adherents You say of Caluine and these Princes 〈◊〉 you haue spoken thâ—◠〈◊〉 heauen can noâ— containe theÌ„ But it passeâ—h your skill to pronounce certainely hereof nay your Pope himselfe cannot with all his might pull Caluiâ—â— out of heauen not any of them whom Christ hath made witnesses of his truth As for you and your fellowes we wish you not the gallowes but saluation I desire to hope the best of you and I doubt not but you might attaine to the knowledge of the truth in controuersie betwixt vs if for the time you could lay aside all preiudicate opinions and consult with the word of God and the holy Fathers of the Church As for the societie of Iesus whereunto you are admitted it braggeth that it is wholie at the Popes dispensation and loues Gregory the 13.
too well to loue Queene Elizabeth any thing at all who is so farre differing from him Nations conuerted to Christ You proceed and produce the vtmost coasts and countries of the world to testifie for you you should distinguish auncient and later times For graunt that the whole world had conspired with the Pope against Christ which it hath not that is no aduantage to you nor preiudice to vs d DVR You had spoken better if you had said that he forsakes the Gospell who affirmeth that the whole world conspireâ— against Christ. O miserable Caluinists who cannot defend their saith otherwise than by bereauing Christ of his kingdome and the whole christian world of faith WHIT. pag. 886. This is very true you say but Duraeus did we euer speak after this manner Will you keepe your custome of rayling and slaundering euen to the last act Nay rather O miserable Duraeus who blinded with malice and ignorance doth not feele your owne miserie Not the whole world but your Synagogue which is but a small part of the whole world hath conspired against Christ And is it to be feared least Christ should loose his kingdome and the world faith if your shaueling with his whole rabble fall froÌ„ the Gospell Though you be perfidious and wicked yet God will remaine alwaies faithfull and true whosoeuer forsakes the Gospell he is necessarily diuided from the Church To put to silence the oracles of the heathen Idols and carry the name of Christ vnto the Gentiles was no doubt a great worke and a diuine worke but that is none of your worke for you haue filled the world with Idols and as much as in you lay ouerturned the kingdome of Christ The Idols of the heâ—â—â—en haue been oâ—eâ—â—â—owne and the kingdome of God enlarged by the Apostles and Apostolike men â—â—â—e â—â—e oâ—e Papist or one Iesâ—ite amongst these For the Iesuites which assay to make new kingdomes amongst the Indians serue not Christ but the Pope not do they enlarge the kingdome of Christ but they prepare for the Pope a kingdome farre from the Lutheranes where he may raigne after he shall be banished from these countries c DVR You set vpon our societie and say vve haue diuided Christ Because certeine men haue chosen vnto them this name aboue all others to be accounted of the societie of Iesus because they haue consecrated theÌ„selues wholy to aduance this name must they therefore of necessitie diuide Christ haue not you Christ Colledge in Oxford WHIT. pag. 8â—6 I will not striue much with you about your societie of which I â—â—â—e very small account If you haue for some speciall consideration dedicated your selues vnto Christ what is that consideration why doe you not tell vs what Iesus requireth of you which all other Christians are not bound to doe If the order of your profession require that you propagate honour and magnifie the name Iesus if for this all Christians ought not to labour at least Bishops and specially your Pope and if they be Iesâ—ites who doe this why â—re not all your Diuines Bishops Cardinals and Popes Iesuites It may bee this care is â—arre from them Whereas then nameâ— are for distinguishing of things they be needlesse and vaine when there iâ— no difference in the thing Either shew vs what is the proper peculier duties of Iesuits or confesse that without any cause you haue appâ—opriated such a â—â—me vnto theÌ„ In Cambridge aswell â—s in Oxford we haue both Christ and Iesus Colledge but they that liâ—e in those Colledges are called onely Christians Thinke you that because there are many Colledgeâ— different in names there are many differeÌ„t Orders professions of men In places distinctions of names are necessarie and without danger vnlesse some schisme may happeÌ„ betwixt yâ— wâ—ls Haue you no other thing to say for your sect societie You aske is Christ diuided I answere you Iesuites haue diuided him els why haue you separated Iesus from Christ and leauing the auncient ordinary names of Christians which you scorne as too common you desire rather to be called Iesuites a new name of your owne framing then Christians As though there were some societie of Iesus appropriated to one kind of men separated from other Christians If there be then is Christ deuided if not then you Iesuites are too impudent to deuise a new societie You say either we or he preach a wrong Christ This of necessitie must be so But Luther preached the true Christ storme the Pope neuer so much looke then what Iesus what Christ you haue amongst you the true Christ it is not I beseech you Campian for Christes sake consider well whom you haue forsaken to whome you haue betaken you into what danger you haue cast your selfe But you will tell vs who is the true Christ I listen to heare it let him bâ— true Christ and on their side by whose bringing in Dagons neck was broken With a good will Christ by vs preached hath within these few yeares throwne downe an infinite sort of your Dagons for so soone as Christ accompanied with his Gospell got footing in any place your Dagons out of hand fell downe and had not only their armes and legs broken but necks also Patrick in Ireland and Palladius in Scotland what they were I meane not to search We Englishmen I graunt receiued much good by Austen the Monke and much euill also and superstition which he brought in with him It is plaine that we had receiued the Christian faith in Brittany many ages before his comming hither How it was by him increased or hindred I will not say But he liued sixe hundred yeares after Christ which as I iudge was not the purest time of the Church but as others affirme the age was most corrupt Now to conclude because to prosecute all were infinite you gather a heape of witnesses together the Vniuersities written lawes the common fashions of all people choyce of Emperours kingly rites orders of Knighthood habites church windowes coines gates houses all things great and small vnto all which I answere in a word if an Angell from heauen should preach vnto vs an other Gospell then that which Christ hath taught the Apostles published our Churches now professe we would reiect and detest it much lesse do we stand vpon these toyes of yours and maâ—â—ers of â—oâ—omâ—nt The florishing Vniuersitieâ— auncient lawâ— and iâ— all kinds monuments of great antiquitie all these afford vnto vs an open testimonie of the truth we professe Thus haue we heard your ten-fold Apollogy wherein I perceiue you haue bestowed no small diligence how you haue therein preuailed I leaue the iudgement to others If you haue satisfied none more therein then our Vniuersitie men I can assure you you haue lost your labour and are disappointed of your hope For my owne part though in this case I professe my selfe your aduersary yet your person Campian I loue as farre as a Christian may loue a Iesuite And I