counting for numbers are onely marks of remembrance But what do you think of the number of Four said she which Cabbalists make such ado withal and of the number of Ten when they say that Ten is all and that all numbers are virtually comprehended in four We think answered they that Cabbalists have nothing else to do but to trouble their heads with such useless fancies for naturally there is no such thing as prime or all in numbers nor is there any other mystery in numbers but what man's fancy makes but what men call Prime or All we do not know because they do not agree in the number of their opinion Then the Emperess asked whether the number of six was a symbole of Matrimony as being made up of Male and Female for two into three is six If any number can be a symbole of Matrimony answered the Spirits it is not Six but Two if two may be allowed to be a number for the act of Matrimony is made up of two joined in one She asked again what they said to the number of Seven whether it was not an Embleme of God because Cabbalists say that it is neither begotten nor begets any other number There can be no Embleme of God answered the Spirits for if we do not know what God is how can we make an Embleme of him Nor is there any number in God for God is the perfection himself but numbers are imperfect and as for the begetting of numbers it is done by Multiplication and Addition but Substraction is as a kind of death to numbers If there be no mystery in numbers replied the Emperess then it is in vain to refer the Creation of the World to certain numbers as Cabbalists do The onely mystery of numbers answered they concerning the Creation of the World is that as numbers do multiply so does the world The Emperess asked how far numbers did multiply The Spirits answered to Infinite Why said she Infinite cannot be reckoned nor numbred No more answered they can the parts of the Universe for God's Creation being an Infinite action as proceeding from an Infinite Power could not rest upon a finite number of Creatures were it never so great But leaving the mystery of numbers proceeded the Emperess Let me now desire you to inform me whether the Suns and Planets were generated by the Heavens or AEthereal Matter The Spirits answered That the Stars and Planets were of the same matter which the Heavens the AEther and all other natural Creatures did consist of but whether they were generated by the Heavens or AEther they could not tell if they be said they they are not like their Parents for the Sun Stars and Planets are more splendorous then the AEther as also more solid and constant in their motions But put the case the Stars and Planets were generated by the Heavens and the AEthereal Matter the question then would be out of what these are generated or produced if these be created out of nothing and not generated out of something then it is probable the Sun Stars and Planets are so too nay it is more probable of the Stars and Planets then of the Heavens or the fluid AEther by reason the Stars and Planets seem to be further off from mortality then the particular parts of the AEther for no doubt but the parts of the AEthereal Matter alter into several forms which we do not perceive of the Stars and Planets The Emperess asked further whether they could give her information of the three principles of Man according to the doctrine of the Platonists as first of the Intellect Spirit or Divine Light 2. Of the Soul of Man her self and 3. Of the Image of the Soul that is her vital operation on the body The Spirits answered that they did not understand these three distinctions but that they seem'd to corporeal sense and reason as if they were three several bodies or three several corporeal actions however said they they are intricate conceptions of irregular fancies If you do not understand them replied the Emperess hovv shall humane Creatures do then Many both of your modern and ancient Philosophers answered the Spirits endeavour to go beyond sense and reason vvhich makes them commit absurdities for no corporeal Creature can go beyond sense and reason no not we Spirits as long as vve are in our corporeal Vehicles Then the Emperess asked them vvhether there vvere any Atheists in the World The Spirits answered that there vvere no more Atheists then vvhat Cabbalists make She asked them further Whether Spirits vvere of a globous or round Figure They ansvvered That Figure belonged to body but they being immaterial had no figure She asked again Whether Spirits were not like Water or Fire They answered that Water and Fire was material were it the purest and most refined that ever could be nay were it above the Heavens But we are no more like Water or Fire said they then we are like Earth but our Vehicles are of several forms figures and degrees of substances Then she desired to know whether their Vehicles were made of Air Yes answered the Spirits some of our Vehicles are of thin Air. Then I suppose replied the Emperess That those airy Vehicles are your corporeal summersuits She asked further whether the Spirits had not ascending and descending motions as well as other Creatures They answered That properly there was no ascension or descension in Infinite Nature but onely in relation to particular parts and as for us Spirits said they we can neither ascend nor descend without corporeal Vehicles nor can our Vehicles ascend or descend but according to their several shapes and figures for there can be no motion without body The Emperess asked them further whether there was not a World of Spirits as well as there is of material Creatures No answered they for the word World implies a quantity or multitude of corporeal Creatures but we being Immaterial can make no world of Spirits Then she desired to be informed when Spirits were made We do not know answered they how and when we were made nor are we much inquisitive after it nay if we did it would be no benefit neither for us nor for you mortals to know it The Emperess replied That Cabbalists and Divine Philosophers said mens rational Souls were Immaterial and stood as much in need of corporeal Vehicles as Spirits did If this be so answered the Spirits then you are Hermaphrodites of Nature but your Cabbalists are mistaken for they take the purest and subtillest parts of Matter for Immaterial Spirits Then the Emperess asked when the souls of Mortals went out of their bodies whether they went to Heaven or Hell or whether they remained in airy Vehicles God's Justice and Mercy answered they is perfect and not imperfect but if you mortals will have Vehicles for your Souls and a place that is between Heaven and Hell it must be Purgatory which is a place of Purification for which action Fire is more
Logicians the Gyants her Architects c. But before all things she having got a soveraign power from the Emperor over all the World desired to be informed both of the manner of their Religion and Government and to that end she called the Priests and States-men to give her an account of either Of the States-men she enquired first Why they had so few Laws To which they answered That many Laws made many Divisions which most commonly did breed factions and at last brake out into open wars Next she asked Why they preferred the Monarchical form of Government before any other They answered That as it was natural for one body to have but one head so it was also natural for a Politick body to have but one Governor and that a Common-wealth which had many Governors was like a Monster of many heads besides said they a Monarchy is a divine form of Government and agrees most with our Religion for as there is but one God whom we all unanimously worship and adore with one Faith so we are resolved to have but one Emperor to whom we all submit with one obedience Then the Empress seeing that the several sorts of her Subjects had each their Churches apart asked the Priests whether they were of several Religions They answered her Majesty That there was no more but one Religion in all that World nor no diversity of opinions in that same Religion for though there were several sorts of men yet had they all but one opinion concerning the Worship and Adoration of God The Empress asked them Whether they were Jews Turks or Christians We do not know said they what Religions those are but we do all unanimously acknowledg worship and adore the Onely Omnipotent and Eternal God with all reverence submission and duty Again the Empress enquired Whether they had several Forms of Worship They answered No For our Devotion and Worship consists onely in Prayers which we frame according to our several necessities in Petitions Humiliations Thanksgiving c Truly replied the Empress I thought you had been either Jews or Turks because I never perceived any Women in your Congregations But what is the reason you bar them from your religious Assemblies It is not fit said they that Men and Women should be promiscuously together in time of Religious Worship for their company hinders Devotion and makes many instead of praying to God direct their devotion to their Mistresses But asked the Empress Have they no Congregation of their own to perform the duties of Divine Worship as well as Men No answered they but they stay at home and say their Prayers by themselves in their Closets Then the Empress desir'd to know the reason why the Priests and Governors of their World were made Eunuchs They answer'd To keep them from Marriage For Women and Children most commonly make disturbance both in Church and State But said she Women and Children have no employment in Church or State 'T is true answer'd they but although they are not admitted to publick employments yet are they so prevalent with their Husbands and Parents that many times by their importunate perswasions they cause as much nay more mischief secretly then if they had the management of publick affairs The Empress having received an information of what concerned both Church and State passed some time in viewing the Imperial Palace where she admired much the skil and ingenuity of the Architects and enquired of them first why they built their Houses no higher then two stories from the Ground They answered her Majesty That the lower their buildings were the less were they subject either to the heat of the Sun to Wind Tempest Decay c. Then she desired to know the reason why they made them so thick They answered That the thicker the Walls were the warmer were they in Winter and cooler in Summer for their thickness kept out both cold and heat Lastly she asked why they arched their roofs and made so many Pillars They replied That Arches and Pillars did not onely grace a building very much and caused it to appear Magnificent but made it also firm and lasting The Empress was very well satisfied with their answers and after some time when she thought that her new founded societies of the Vertuoso's had made a good progress in their several employments which she had put them upon she caused a Convocation first of the Bird-men and commanded them to give her a true relation of the two Celestial bodies viz. the Sun and Moon which they did with all the obedience and faithfulness befitting their duty The Sun as much as they could observe they related to be a firm or solid Stone of a vast bigness of colour yellowish and of an extraordinary splendor but the Moon they said was of a whitish colour and although she looked dim in the presence of the Sun yet had she her own light and was a shining body of her felf as might be perceived by her vigorous appearance in Moon-shiny nights the difference onely betwixt her own and the Suns light was that the Sun did strike his beams in a direct line but the Moon never respected the Centre of their World in a right line but her Centre was always excentrical The spots both in the Sun and Moon as far as they were able to perceive they affirmed to be nothing else but flaws and stains of their stony bodies Concerning the heat of the Sun they were not of one opinion some would have the Sun hot in it self alledging an old Tradition that it should at some time break asunder and burn the Heavens and consume this world into hot embers which said they could not be done if the Sun were not fiery of it self Others again said This opinion could not stand with reason for Fire being a destroyer of all things the Sun-stone after this manner would burn up all the near adjoining bodies besides said they Fire cannot subsist withoutfuel and the Sun-stone having nothing to feed on would in a short time consume it self wherefore they thought it more probable that the Sun was not actually hot but onely by the reflection of its light so that its heat was an effect of its light both being immaterial But this opinion again was laught at by others and rejected as ridiculous who thought it impossible that one immaterial should produce another and believed that both the light and heat of the Sun proceeded from a swift Circular motion of the aethereal Globules which by their striking upon the optick nerve caused light and their motion produced heat But neither would this opinion hold for said some then it would follow that the sight of Animals is the cause of light and that were there no eyes there would be no light which was against all sense and reason Thus they argued concerning the heat and light of the Sun but which is remarkable none did say that the Sun was a globous fluid body and had a swift circular
proper then Air and so the Vehicles of those souls that are in Purgatory cannot be airy but fiery and after this rate there can be but four places for humane souls to be in viz. Heaven Hell Purgatory and this World but as for Vehicles they are but fancies not real truths Then the Emperess asked them where Heaven and Hell was Your Saviour Christ answered the Spirits has informed you that there is Heaven and Hell but he did not tell you what nor where they are wherefore it is too great a presumption for you Mortals to inquire after it if you do but strive to get into Heaven it is enough though you do not know where or what it is for it is beyond your knowledg and understanding I am satisfied replied the Emperess and asked further whether there were any figures or characters in the Soul They answered where there was no body there could be no figure Then she asked them whether Spirits could be naked and whether they were of a dark or a light colour As for our nakedness it is a very odd question answered the Spirits and we do not know what you mean by a naked Spirit for you judg of us as of corporeal Creatures and as for Colour said they it is according to our Vehicles for Colour belongs to Body and as there is no Body that is colourless so there is no Colour that is bodiless Then the Emperess desired to be informed whether all souls were made at the first Creation of the World We know no more answered the Spirits of the origine of humane souls then we know of our selves She asked further whether humane bodies were not burthensome to humane souls They answered That bodies made Souls active as giving them motion and if action was troublesome to souls then bodies were so too She asked again whether souls did chuse bodies They answered That Platonicks believed the souls of Lovers lived in the bodies of their Beloved but surely said they if there be a multitude of souls in a world of Matter they cannot miss bodies for as soon as a soul is parted from one body it enters into another and souls having no motion of themselves must of necessity be cloathed or imbodied with the next parts of Matter If this be so replied the Emperess then I pray inform me whether all matter be soulified The Spirits answered They could not exactly tell that but if it was true that Matter had no other motion but what came from a spiritual power and that all matter was moving then no soul could quit a body but she must of necessity enter into another soulified body and then there would be two immaterial substances in one body The Emperess asked whether it was not possible that there could be two souls in one body As for immaterial souls answered the Spirits it is impossible for there cannot be two immaterials in one inanimate body by reason they want parts and place being bodiless but there may be numerous material souls in one composed body by reason every material part has a material natural soul for Nature is but one Infinite self-moving living and self-knowing body consisting of the three degrees of inanimate sensitive and rational Matter so intermixt together that no part of Nature were it an Atome can be without any of these three degrees the sensitive is the life the rational the soul and the inanimate part the body of Infinite Nature The Emperess was very well satisfied with this answer and asked further whether souls did not give life to bodies No answered they but Spirits and Divine Souls have a life of their own which is not partable being purer then a natural life for Spirits are incorporeal and consequently individable But when the Soul is in its Vehicle said the Emperess then me thinks she is like the Sun and the Vehicle like the Moon No answered they but the Vehicle is like the Sun and the Soul like the Moon for the Soul hath motion from the Body as the Moon has light from the Sun Then the Emperess asked the Spirits whether it was an evil Spirit that tempted Eve and brought all the mischiefs upon Mankind or whether it was the Serpent They answered That Spirits could not commit actual evils The Emperess said they might do it by perswasions They answered That Perswasions were actions but the Emperess not being contented with this answer asked whether there was not a supernatural Evil The Spirits answered That there was a supernatural Good which was God but they knew of no supernatural Evil that was equal to God Then she desired to know whether Evil Spirits were reckoned amongst the Beasts of the Field They answer'd That many Beasts of the field were harmless Creatures and very serviceable for Man's use and though some were accounted fierce and cruel yet did they exercise their cruelty upon other Creatures for the most part to no other end but to get themselves food and to satisfie their natural appetite but certainly said they you men are more cruel to one another then evil Spirits are to you and as for their habitations in desolate places we having no communion with them can give you no certain account thereof But what do you think said the Emperess of Good Spirits may not they be compared to the Fowls of the Air They answered There were many cruel and revenous Fowls as well in the Air as there were fierce and cruel Beasts on Earth so that the good are always mixt with the bad She asked further whether the fiery Vehicles were a Heaven or a Hell or at least a Purgatory to the Souls They answered That if the Souls were immaterial they could not burn and then fire would do them no harm and though Hell was believed to be an undecaying and unquenchable fire yet Heaven was no fire The Emperess replied That Heaven was a Light Yes saidthey but not a fiery Light Then she asked whether the different shapes and sorts of Vehicles made the Souls and other Immaterial Spirits miserable or blessed The Vehicles answered they make them neither better nor worse for though some Vehicles sometimes may have power over others yet these by turns may get some power gain over them according to the several advantages and disadvantages of particular natural parts The Emperess asked further whether animal life came out of the spiritual World and did return thither again The Spirits answered they could not exactly tell but if it were so then certainly animal lives must leave their bodies behind them otherwise the bodies would make the spiritual World a mixt World that is partly material and partly immaterial but the Truth is said they Spirits being immaterial cannot properly make a World for a World belongs to material not to immaterial Creatures If this be so replied the Emperess then certainly there can be no world of lives and forms without matter No answered the Spirits nor a world of Matter without lives and forms for