him to bee an Angell it is like enough he would have demeaned himselfe otherwise but taking him to be a man as he seemed hee was more honest than to set him a worke for nothing Nor in case this story were as true as could be were it more absurd for old Tobie to offer this Angell wages whilst he knew him not than it was for Gideon to present an Angell with a Kid or for Lot to afford the Angels lodging or for Manoah to dresse a Kid likewise that the Angell might eate For Manoah saith the Scripture knew not that he was an Angell Iudges 13.16 And as for the dog going with them it is an usuall thing for a dogge to runne abroad with his Master and I pray quarrell not with him for feare hee bites you Little reason is there that you should bee troubled to see a man with a dogge at his heeles except he were going into a Church But if you be of the Packe of Praecisians you care as little to exclude your dogge from thence as you doe to shut out your owne irreverence And yet Iacob could say Gen. 28.17 How dreadfull is this place surely it is no other than the house of God and the gate of Heaven The Lord also saith Levit. 19.30 Ye shall observe my Sabbaths and reverence my Sanctuary And in the Prophet Malachie Mal. 1.6 If I saith the Lord be a Father where is my honour If I be a Master where is my Feare And in the Gospell Mat. 21.13 Luke 19.46 It is written saith Christ that my House shall bee called the house of prayer but yee have made it a denne of Theeves Thus t was then And I would to God it could not in some sort bee as truely said that Gods House is by many made no better still than a denne of Theeves wherein they rob him of his service and are not against the respect which is done there to themselves giving none at all to him before whom they cannot bee too reverent but should bow which we commonly reade Worship fall downe and kneell Psal 95.6 as the Psalmist speaketh Nor doth Saint Paul but say 1 Cor. 11 22. That the Corinthians despised the Church of God for which hee praysed them not And as for reverence to bee done to the Lord of Heaven and Earth the same Apostle instructs the Hebrewes thus Wherefore saith he Heb. 12.28,29 Wee having received a kingdome which cannot be shaken let us have grace whereby wee may serve God acceptablie with reverence and a godly feare For our GOD is a consuming fire All which Scriptures mentioning these things are quoted in the Margent DIALOGUE Minist On the third of October another lying fable is appointed to be read how Tobias being come from Rages did call the Angell unto him and bade him take a servant and two Camels and goe to Rages for mony and that the Angell went and carried writings which he delivered to Gabael who brought bags of mony sealed up which he delivered to the Angell ANSWER Her 's still great noise and little Wooll much spoken but to little purpose as in the former answers hath beene already shewed DIALOGUE Gent. O horrible how have the Bishops deluded King Edward the sixt Queene Elizabeth King James and Our gracious King Charles and the whole estate and made them beleeve that there was nothing in the service Booke contrary to Gods Word God Almighty deliver us from them ANSWER You talke you know not what for that the Bishops have not deluded the state nor those Princes which you speake of appeares First by the Martyrdome of those worthy Bishops which suffered in the dayes of Queene Mary Secondly by the conference holden at Hampton Court in the beginning of King Iames his Raigne who as you know was a Prince so well accomplished in learning and particularly in Divinity that if they would they could not have captivated his judgment and skill as in that conference is most apparent His wise Nobles saw it well enough For being present and observing all passages they were perswaded that His Majesty spoke by inspiration And thirdly that they went not about to delude him appeares by that which they said throughout the whole conference and especially by the faire dealing with His Majestie about particular absolution and private Baptisme DIALOGUE Gent. Now that you have shewed me the blasphemies and lying fables shew also what are the Popish errours that are in it and first tell me whether the Service Booke doth command that all both Ministers and people shall bow their bodies when the Name Jesus is read Minist The Bishops only without any warrant from God but from the Pope Gent. I have read that the Name Jesus was a common name among the Jewes was it so Minist Yes Syrach of Jerusalem had a son whose name was Iesus Eccl. 50.23 Also Ioshua the son of Nun was called Iesus Acts 7.57 and one of Saint Pauls fellow Labourers was called Iesus Col. 4 11. Gent. Why doe the Bishops make an Idoll of the name Jesus by causing men to bow their bodies and to put off their hat when it is read Min. Because they mistake the Word of God where it is written that at the name of Iesus every knee shall bow both of things in Heaven of things on earth and of things under the earth Phil. 2.10 Gent. What is the name of Jesus Min. As by the name of our gracious King Charles is meant not the name Charles which is a common name but the authority and power that God hath given him over all people within his owne dominions as when men are prest to the Kings service they are prest in the Kings name that is by vertue of authority and power from the King even so as by the name of K. Charles is meant his authority and power c. So by the name of Iesus ia meant the authority and power that God hath given him over all things in Heaven and in Earth and under the Earth Gent. What is meant by things in Heaven Min. By things in Heaven are meant the holy Angels and soules of the faithfull that have no knees Gent. What is meant by things on Earth Min. By things on Earth are meant all mankinde living on earth whether they be Elect or Reprobate Gâ—nt What is meant by things under the Earth Min. By things under the Earth are meant the Devils and damned soules in hell Gent. What is meant by bowing of the knee Min. By bowing of the knee is meant subjection Isa 45.23 and not bowing of the body when the name Jesus is read as Pope Anastatius did command Anno 404. Gent. What is meant by bowing of every knee of things in Heaven of things on earth and of things under the earth Min. Thereby is meant that all the holy Angels and Saints in Heaven and all mankinde on earth and all the Devils and damned soules in hell shall submit themselves to
Christ and acknowledge him to be Lord of all and to have power over all to save and condemne whom he will ANSWER You undertake at the first to speake of things in the Common-Prayer-Booke but now I see you are fallen upon something else His name as you say which first commanded to bow at the name of Iesus was Anastatius a man I hope of an earlier date than either to be termed Pope by way of derision or to bee slighted for his care about this custome which the Church was acquainted with a long time before hee was ever Bishop of Rome Saint Hierom in his Comment upon Esay the 45.23 which is the very text alledged by you to be a testimony against bowing of the knee speakes of it as no new thing in his time for It is saith hee the custome of the Church to bow the knee to CHRIST which the Jewes shewing the perversenesse of their minds altogether refuse to doe noting thereby that it was so farre from being new as that it was come to bee one of the Churches customes Zanchy is able to say that the use is ancient Nor do men of great reading but affirme that it was used in the time of Arius which must needs be in the Primitive times because Arius was before the first Councell of Nice Nor might it but bee used sooner if wee cast an eye to the scoffings of the Jewes For the Jewes began to scoffe and mocke at our Saviour in allusion to his name even when he suffered and have ever since derided the Christians with their crucified Iesus Thus the chiefe Priests mocking him with the Scribes and Elders alluding to his name Jesus said He saved others himselfe he cannot save Matth. 27.42 And as Marlorat speaketh Marl. in Mat. ch 1. â— 21. The Jewes in scorn and derision to this day cal our Saviour not Jesus but Jehu which with them signifieth only some common and contemptible fellow As then the name Iesus is that name in which he was derided and which they abuse by their chopping and changing that they might thereby abase our Saviour and with which they flout us for our faith so is it that name in which he must bee honoured The Father hath assigned so much unto him and wee are bound to afford it as a part of his reward for the death of the Crosse His person wee know is taken from us but his Name he hath left still with us And as his Person for suffering is crowned with honour and glory Heb. 2.9 So must his Name be so farre exalted as that at the Name of Iesus every knee must bow Phil. 2.10 And thus will your figurative exposition be nothing worth though illustrated by a comparison of things done in the Kings name For at the name of Jesus is meant Jesus named to whom we how when we heare him called by that name For though his Person bee exalted and sitteth at the right hand of God yet his Name in which he was despised is not exalted by us as it ought except we also reverence his Person upon the mentioning of that name which God hath given him to bee above every Name that at the Name of Jesus every knee should bow Where is then the Idoll which you speak of it would trouble you sure to finde it out and therefore that calumnie was either ignorantly cast upon the Bishops or maliciously to bring upon them the greater Odium obloquie contempt and scorne But others you say were called Jesus as well as our Lord and Saviour true some others have had that name given them by humane imposition but not as given to our Redeemer by God with a command of his adoration Ther 's none of them that could either doe that which hee did or be saved but by him and must therefore so resigne this name to him as that he beare it with a maine difference from them all And as for that which you say of the holy Angels and soules of the faithfull which have no knees they have their wayes surely to doe that which wee doe in our bodies else it would never bee given in charge that all the Angels of GOD must worship him Hebr. 1.6 Nor bee written that the Saints in Heaven fall downe before him Rev. 5.8,9 Nor may them in Hell bee excluded For though it bee a torment to them to testifie either reverence or subjection yet seeing Christ must Reigne till he have put all his enemies under his feet they shall whether they will or no be brought unto it a proofe of which assertion is in the foureteenth chapter of the Romans at the tenth and eleventh verses In which regard the Apostles words Phil. 2.10 mentioning that at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow both of things in Heaven of things on Earth and of things under the Earth are not unfitlie said to bee a Prophecie which by many Christians is fulfilling in this life here on earth by blessed spirits and Saints is fulfilled in Heaven and shall fully be accomplished in the day of judgment as Master Calvin very well observeth For though it bee a prophecie wee must know that under this prophecie expressed there is a dutie implyed For Prophecies saith one are of two sorts some that are fulfilled in an instant others by degrees and by little and by little of which latter sort is this prophecie that every knee shall bow DIALOGUE Gent. What doe you thinke of them that kneele when they receive the Communion bread Min. The Papists say that they are Idolaters because they kneele and doe not beleeve the reall presente as they doe ANSWER It is no matter what the Papists say Their dislike should me thinkes moderate your spleene and make you think the better of us for their sakes To beleeve their reall presence is no part of our Creed and yet to kneele is a part of our devotion Wee kneele no more to the Bread than to the Pulpit or to our seates when we joyne with the Minister in praying unto God But our quarrell is not now with them of Rome but with you for taking durt out of their puddles and causelesly to throw it at us DIALOGUE Gent. Who was the first that brought in kneeling Min. Pope Honorius about the yeare of our Lord 1220. after that the errour of Transubstantiation was hatcht at the Councell of Lateran Gent. J have read in Gods Word that the Apostles did not kneele when Christ Himselfe delivered the bread unto them I have read also in the Booke of Martyrs that the ancient Councels in the Primitive Church did make Canons against kneeling least it should prove an occasion of Idolatry Ought not we to conforme our selves to our Saviour Christ and his Apostles and to the Christians of the Primitive Church rather than to the Devils Vicar-generall the Pope Min. Yes verily for it is grosse hypocrisie in us to make a shew as though wee were more godly and zealous than the Apostles and
be understood of those who be Adulti or men grown who have lost and forfeited their Baptismall Regeneration by actuall grosse sinnes not repented off yeelded unto without any reluctancy or striving against the apprehension of what they see in the world as soon as they come to knowledge leading them into a wrong habit both of desiring and doing wherby they walk not like children of the light who must be therefore spoken unto as to men unregenerate because a new kinde of regeneration at least a new degree thereof must be wrought in them by the Ministery of the word which by the Law brings them to repentance and by the Gospel to Faith in Christ these graces being further fortified by the second Sacrament which upon due examination of themselves they are bound to receive Dicitur quidam à nonnullis concedendam non esse◠Regenerationem nisi per verbum quod est semen Dei Petrus quippe ait priori Epist cap. 1. nos esse renatos baudquaquam semine corruptibili sed incorruptibili quod est sermo Dei Caeterum ad id respondemus de adult is hominibus id esse intelligendum De infantibus autem non it a rem se habere nisi velimus Hebraeorum filios melioris facere sortis quam Christianorum as Peter Martyr speaketh See Peter Mar in his common Places pag. 838. That is It is said indeed by some that regeneration is not to be granted but by the Word which is the seed of God because Peter saith in the first Epist chapter 1. That we are born againe in no wise by corruptible seed but by incorruptible which is the word of God But to that we answer That it is to be understood of men grown but concerning Infants the case is otherwise except we would make the children of the Hebrews of a better condition then the Children of Christians So then albeit we know this Sacrament of Baptisme to be effectuall to the regeneration of Infants yet are we not to grant Baptismall grace in it self sufficient to the salvation of men grown Mr. Tho. Bedf. in Sermon on Rom. 6,7 pag. 58. It is fitly therefore said by a learned Preacher to be available for the state of infancy to them a state of salvation as the Church teacheth them to stile it and to blesse God for it But afterwards when they become actuall sinners they must become actuall penitents And as they have contracted a new guilt so they must seek for a new grace otherwise the first will be found insufficient to salvation Thus farre that author And so you see how little you have gotten by your restriction of regeneration to the word alone For though you were so peremptory in your assertion concerning it as that you could say The truth is That the Children of God doe receive the Spirit of God to regenerate them not by sprinkling of water in baptisme but by bearing the Gospel Preached yet the truth is that Truth is nothing neer you for you affirme falsly and will by degrees be found still to be full of so many malicious slanders absurdities lies and errors as will make Orthodox and quiet men cry out that you are not so much tedious as troublesome both to the Church and State as be also the rest of your crew which now adayes do use to shew their heads and faces with such audacious boldnesse as makes it be admired that such spirits should be amongst us and be the first forsooth for reformation But I pray God work all for the best and settle us so in peace that Truth Unity and Goncord may flourish amongst us and seeing oh Lord the foolish ones do reproach thee daily do thou arise and maintain thine own cause in spight of all that shall oppose it DIALOGUE Gent. What do they say of the Catechisme in the Service-book Min. They say it is full of Popish errors as first in the Rubrick before the Catechisme it is written that Children baptized have all things necessary to salvation and are undoubtedly saved The truth is that they have no knowlede of sinne nor of the wrath and curse of God due to sinne nor of Christ nor of the Articles of the Christian Faith and therefore have neither Faith nor Repentance without which none can be saved It is true that Infants born of the Elect are undoubtedly saved by vertue of Gods everlasting Covenant of grace so many as are of the number of the Elect I say so many as are of the number of the Elect because many of the Elect that are now Saints in Heaven have brought forth children that are Reprobates and damned soules in Hell For Adam had Cain as well as Abel and Abraham had Ishmaell as well as Isaac and Isaac had Esau whom God hated as well as Jacob whom God loved ANSWER Well and what of all this Are not Infants baptized because they are born in originall sin and is not originall sin washt away in baptisme And if so then who will not say that a childe baptized is undoubtedly saved For though the root of corruption doth still remain yet the guilt is pardened and so such a childe dying before it hath procured a new guilt through the fructification of the branches which spring from the foresaid root is by virtue of holy baptisme so washed as it may be saved For baptisme is not a meer naked signe or badge of Christianity but an ordinary and efficatious means of Regeneration as I have already proved out of plain texts of holy Scripture And where as you come in again according to your wonted manner with The truth is that they have no knowledge of sinne nor of the wrath and curse of God due to sinne nor of Christ nor of the Articles of the Christian Faith and therefore have neither faith nor repentance without which none can be saved it is further answered in the words of one well able to satisfie See M. T. Bedf. Treat of the Sacr. pag. 192. viz. That in the Baptisme of Infants the spirit worketh not as a morall agent to proffer grace to the will but as a naturall or rather supernaturall Agent to work it in the will to put grace into the heart conferring upon them seminall and initiall grace which doth not presuppose Faith but is in it selfe the seed of Faith To parents converted Baptisme conveyed as did Circumcision to Abraham a superaddition of further grace to what they had extraordinarily received But to their Children Baptisme conveyed as did Circumcision to Isaac the first seeds of grace and regeneration Adde this that the Faith of the Parent is sufficient to qualifie the child for Baptisme yea for the grace of Baptisme the childe I say in whom as yet corruption of nature being scant active calleth for no act of personall grace to remove the barre of guilt polluted he is but by the act of another not by consent of his own therefore the faith of the Parent sufficeth to procure for
the childe the Sacrament and the benefit thereof Yea and let me also add That the right qualification of Godfathers and Godmothers is here also to be regarded as is formerly shewed in answer to the exceptions taken against Interrogatories where also is shewed how the profession of Faith and repentance is performed But you go on and tell us that they be the Insants of the Elect only which are undoubtedly saved by virtue of Gods everlasting covenant of Grace and yet not these neither though born of such parents as you speak off except they also be in the number of the Elect. In which this is granted that it is by virtue of Gods covenant with the Parents that Infants have right of title or interest to baptisme which at the first they were admitted unto even as soon as ever their Parents being converted were baptized For in this the proceeding of the Converts was surely such when the Apostles baptized whole households as when the covenant and what was thereupon commanded concerning Circumcision was made with Abraham The covenant is made and no sooner made but he with all the males in his house were circumcised young and old So doubtlesse no sooner was the covenant of grace ratified betwixt God and the Parents by baptisme but presently their Children or Infants of the same family are accounted holy and Baptized It is plain and evident that unto those to whom Saint Peter preached in the second chapter of the Acts Act. 2.39 and bad them repent and be baptized he said The promise is made to you and your Children Nor doth Saint Paul but also teach the same unto the Gentiles in the first Epistle written to the Corinthians Cor. 7.14 the seventh chapter at the fourteenth verse And where the means is alike to all Gods Election which you speak of appears not to be but according to his foreknowledge of the effects of his means graciously and of meer mercy offered to us â— Pet. 1.10 For though many be called yet few are chosen because all the called of God are not found with their wedding garments on they do not make their calling and Election sure But to be so searching as to put a difference among Infants who can no waies hinder the efficacy of this Sacrament or bar themselves of the benefit or fruit thereof is more then you are able how to manifest For though many of the Elect that are now Saints in heaven have brought forth children that are reprobates and damned soules in Hell yet if they had done well the Scripture tels us they had been accepted as is particularly instanced in one of them whom you have mentioned namely Cain Gen. 4.7 And if hereby you think it followeth that Election is not untill after Vocation then for your further satisfaction I must tell you that in respect of Gods purpose and decree Election is granted to be before the foundation of the World but not re ipsa not so in very deed For both his Election and Calling to the Kingdome of Grace and out of those his Election of some to the Kingdome of Glory is according to his eternall purpose yet not actuated but in time neither the one nor the other Not the one for I will call them my people which were not my people and her beloved which was not beloved Not the other for When the King came in and saw one there which had not on a wedding garment he commanded him to be bound hand and foot and cast into utter darknesse Rom. 9.25 Hos 2.23 Mat. 22.11,13 To which action declared by that Parable our Saviour presently subjoyns this saying Mat. 22.14 For many are called but few are chosen Where note I pray you that they are actually elected who are found to have the wedding garment on walking like Children of the light which they received by their Election unto grace and do so come under the use of the means and are benefitted thereby as that they make their Calling and Election sure for such as these are undoubtedly cloathed with the robe of Christs righteousnesse they have put off the old Man and by a true and a lively Faith which by the means afforded them is wrought in them upon their submission and applying thereunto they have put on the New Christ dwells in them yea their life is hid with Christ and when Christ who is their life shall appear then shall they also appeare with him in glory Coloss 3.3,4 And then next as for that of Ishmael It is true that he was the sonne of Abraham as well as Isaac but that he was damned is more then I dare determin especially seeing when Abraham prayed unto God Gen. 17,18,20 that he might live in his sight the Lord gave him answer That as concerning Ishmael he had heard him If you say that this is meant only in regard of his temporall prosperity then must it be also granted that he is cast out of Abrahams house and * Aliud nihil erat quam reprobari à typica illa haereditate terrae Canaan quam Isaaco Deus assignabat differenced from Isaac not because he was a Reprobate as you would have him but because he might not be heire with Isaac For Cast out the bondwoman and her Sonne the Sonne of the Bond-woman shall not be heire with the Sonne of the Freewoman Gen. 21.10 All which comes to one and the same and doth either way make well against you And last of all as for that which you have concerning Jacob and Esau how that God loved the one and hated the other there be them who think that it may be taken as if it should be said He loved the one lesse then the other and not as if it were absolutely meant of an hostile hate or of an hatred to damnation but of a negative hatred which in this seems to be no other thing then a posthabitation concerning the land of Promise and a deniall of the priviledges belonging to the birthright whereby the one is preferred before the other For as Scharpius mentions in his Symphonia Odium duo significat Primò affectum amori contrarium vel hostilem animum quo erga Esauum Deus affectus non fuit Secundo significat aliquid in re aliqua negligere alteri postponere it a Deus Esauum odio habuit cum illi Jacobum praetulit Esauum eaten us pra Jacobo neglexit ut ad illum licet primogenitum ne jus primogeniturae nec promiss terrae Canaani nec origo Messiae secundum carnem pertinuerit A like phrase of speech is in Deuteronomy chap. 21.15 where the words are concerning a man with two wives the one whereof he is said to hate the other to love and this because the one was lesse loved thâ—n the other for so we are taught in the 29 chap. of Genesis at the 30 31 verses even concerning Rachel and Leah the two wives of Jacob. After the same manner likewise