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A26976 Of the immortality of mans soul, and the nature of it and other spirits. Two discourses, one in a letter to an unknown doubter, the other in a reply to Dr. Henry Moore's Animadversions on a private letter to him, which he published in his second edition of Mr. Joseph Glanvil's Sadducismus triumphatus, or, History of apparitions by Richard Baxter. Baxter, Richard, 1615-1691. 1682 (1682) Wing B1331; Wing B1333; ESTC R5878 76,803 192

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here And I know not why you might not as well have named divers other Accidents or Modes especially Quantity and the trina dimensio and called them all the Form of Matter as well as your two Indeed when we have from sense a true notion of Matter we must know that it hath Quantity and is somewhere and therefore that one part of it and another part cannot possess just the same place and so we grant you the Impenetrability And how far you prove Spirits to be such substances as are extended and have Amplitude as you say pag. 105. and spissitude and be in loco and in more or less space variously and yet that they have no dimensions which the Divine Intellect or Power itself can measure and whether all the Spirits in the universe can be in eodem puncto and all that are finite contracted into that one point I leave this to Wits more subtil than mine to judge of For to tell you the truth I know nothing at all without the mediation of sense except the immediate sensation it self the acts of Intellection Volition or Nolition what the Intellect inferreth of the like by the perception of these I have seen felt how Water differeth from Earth and from that sensation my Intellect hath that Idea of the difference which it hath But without that seeing and feeling it all the definitions in the world and all the names of hard and soft and dry and moist would have given me no true notice of the formal difference Now hence I infer that I have no sense at all of the difference of a Spirits Substantiality in such modes and accidents from that of Matter and therefore how can I know it I know by knowing what knowing is and by willing what willing is And I know that these Acts prove a power for nothing doth that which it cannot do and that Act and Power prove a Substance for nothing hath nothing and can do nothing ab est tertii adjecti ad est secundi valet argumentum And I know that unless Light might be called Spirit Spirits are to me invisible And so I can knowingly say 1. What they do 2. What they can do 3. What they are in the genus of Substantiality 4. And what they are not as to many Attributes proper to Visible Substances or Bodies 5. And I have elsewhere fully proved in a special Dispute in Methodo Theol. that the Power of Vital Action Intellection and Volition is not a meer Accident of them but their very essential form But as to that Modification of their Substance which is contrary to Impenetrability and Divisibility I may grope but I cannot know it positively for want of sensation § 2. Is an Atom Matter or is it not If one Atom be no matter then two is none and then there is none If an Atom be matter is it Discerpible or not If not how is this the Form of Matter If it be divisible it is not an Atom that 's a contradiction And if every Atom be divisible in infinitum it is as great or greater than the world and then there are as many Infinites as Atoms That three Atoms united cannot be divided just in the middle etiam per Divinam Potentiam is because it implieth a contradiction viz. that an Atom is divisible so that by you an Atom is a Spirit Do you take the word Penetrable actively or passively or both If actively according to you Matter is penetrable for it can penetrate a Spirit that is possess the same place But I perceive you mean that Spirits can penetrate Bodies also that they can penetrate one another And I suppose that by Penetration you mean not that which separateth parts of the Matter cometh in between these parts but you mean possessing the same place as is said And if so do you put no limitation or what I ask before can all the Created Spirits in Heaven and Earth be in the same Atom of matter If so are they then absent from all other place or is every Spirit ubiquitary You confute the Nullibists by the operation of the Soul on the Body Ibi operatur ergo ibi est And do you think that all the Angels in Heaven and all Created Souls may be in one Body by Penetration If so Are they one Soul there or innumerable in one man And if they may be all in one point and so be all one may they not be divided again I confess my ignorance of the Consistence of spiritual Substance is so great that I am not able to say that God who hath given Souls quantitatem discretam and made them innumerable is not able to make one of two or many and to turn that one into two or many again I am not sure that it is a contradiction especially if it be true that Sennertus and many more say of the multiplication of Forms by Generation But if you take Penetrability passively then you mean that Spirits may be penetrated by Bodies or by one another or both No doubt you mean both and so as I said Bodies also are penetrable both actively and passively that is Bodies can penetrate Spirits and be penetrated by Spirits Whether any Bodies penetrate each other viz. whether Light or its vehicle at least be a Body and whether it penetrate the body of Glass or Chrystal with more about these matters I have heretofore spoken in my Reasons of the Christian Religion Append. Obj. 2. p. 525. and forward § 3. To conclude this as in natural mixt Bodies there are three principles Materia Materiae Dispositio for that I think is a fitter expression than Privatio Forma so in simple Beings there are three not parts but conceptus inadaequati answerable hereto viz. I. In the three passive Elements Earth Water and Air there is in each 1. The Matter 2. The Disposition of that matter by contexture and various modes of which Impenetrability and Divisibility are parts 3. The passive Form resulting from all these which consisteth in their various aptitude to their uses especially their Receptivity of the Influx of the Active Natures Here you put two Attributes together which are both but parts of the Materiae Dispositio and call them two the Form II. In the Active Natures there is 1. The Substantiality 2. The Substantiae Dispositio 3. The Form Of the first not part but inadequate Conceptus Substantiality we agree of the second Conceptus we differ That such Substances have an incomprehensible Purity of which we can have no distinct Idea for want of Sensation but a General Conception only and that this Purity whatever it be is not the Form of Spirits but the Substantiae Dispositio is that which I say And you say that Penetrability and Indivisibility are the Form which at most are but the Dispositio Substantiae and yet you joyn the Vital Virtue as part of the formal Conception too which is quite of another conception
existed be swallowed up of one where are the Rewards and Punishments of each individual And we have reason to judg it will be thus rather than otherwise because we see every thing tends to its own Centre the Water to the Sea and all that was of the Earth to the Earth from whence they were taken And Solomon saith The spirit returns to God that gave it Every thing then returning to its own Element Ioseth its Individuation For we see all bodies returning to the earth are no more individual bodies but earth Have we not reason then to judg the same of Spirits returning to their own Element And what happiness then can we hope for more than a deliverance from the present calamity or what misery are we eapable of more than what is common to all The same is more evident in the body with which we converse and are more sensibly acquainted with seems wholly uncapable of either c. For all bodies are material and matter it self is not capable of multiplication but of being changed Therefore Nature cannot multiply bodies but changeth them as some bodies arise others perish Natures expence in continual Productions being constantly supplied by the dissolution of other Compounds were it otherwise her Store-house would be exhausted for it s by continual Circulations Heaven and Earth is maintain'd and by her even Circular motion she keeps her self imployed on the same stock of matter and maintains every species There is no body the same to day it was yesterday matter being in a continual flux neither immediately on the dissolution of a Compound and Corruption of the body doth the earth thereof retain any specifick difference of that body it once was but is immediately bestowed by Nature and ordered to the new production of other things That part of matter therefore which constituteth a humane body in a short time is putrified and made earth which again produceth either other inferior Animals or Grass or Corn for the nourishment of Beasts and Fowl which again are the nourishment of men Thus circularly innumerable times round Nature continually impressing new forms of the same matter So that that matter that now constitutes my body it may be a thousand years ago was the matter of some other mans or it may be of divers mens then putrified which in this time hath suffered infinite changes as it may be sometime Grass or Corn or an Herb or Bird or Beast or divers of them or all and that divers times over before my body was framed who then can say why this matter so changeable should at last be restored my body rather than his whose formerly it was or the body of a Bird or other Animal For by the same Reasons that the body of man is proved to arise again may I think be proved the Restoration of all other bodies which is equally incredible to me if understood at one time For Natures stock of matter being all at first exhausted she could not employ her self in new Productions without destroying some of the old much less can she at once fabricate out of the same quantity of matter all the bodies that ever were are or shall be which yet notwithstanding could she they could not be said to be the same bodies because all bodies suffer such alteration daily that they cannot be said to be the same to day they were yesterday how then can they be capable of Reward or Punishment These are now my doubts but are they the fruits of Diligence and am I thus rewarded for not believing at a common rate A great deal cheaper could I have sate down and believed as the Church believes without a why or a wherefore have been ignorant of these Disputes and never have emerged my self in this gulf than thus by Reflection to create my own disturbance Had I been made a meer Animal I had had none of these Doubts nor Fears that thus torment my mind for doubting happy Bruits happy far more happy than my self With you is none of this with you only is serenity of mind and you only void of Anxieties you only enjoy what this world is able to accommodate with and it may be too have those Caresses we know not of while we your poor purveyors go drooping and disponding doubting fearing and caring about and our whole lives only a preying on one another and tormenting our selves You have the carnal content and satisfaction we nothing but the shell a vain glorious boast of our Lordship over you with which we seek to satisfie our selves as Prodigals with husks while the truth is we are afraid to confront our Vassals except we first by craft and treachery beguile them from whom likewise we flee if once enraged and what a poor comfort is this Is this a Priviledg to boast of Is this all Reason advanceth to only a Purveyor to Beasts and to make my life more miserable by how much more sensible of misery Well might Solomon prefer the dead before the living and those that had not been before both intimating thereby that being best least capable of misery that is of Trees of Herbs of Stones and all inanimates which wanting sense are insensible of misery Better any thing than man therefore since that every brute and inanimate stock or stone are more happy in that measure they are less capable of misery What the advantage then what the benefit that occurs to us from them or what preheminence have we above them seeing as dieth the one so dieth the other and that they have all one breath Pardon this Degression the real sense and apprehension I have of things extort it from me For I as Job cannot refrain my mouth but speak in the bitterness of my Spirit and complain in the anguish of my Soul Why died I not from the womb why did I not give up the ghost when I came out of the belly Why did the knees prevent me or why the breasts that I should suck I had then been among Solomon 's happy ones I should now have lain still and been quiet I should have slept and been at rest whereas now I am weary of life For tho I speak my grief is not asswaged and tho I forbear I am not eased but now he hath made me weary and made desolate all my company he hath filled me with wrinkles which is a witness against me and my leanness rising up in me beareth witness to my face God hath delivered me to the ungodly and turned me over into the hand of the wicked and my familiar friends have forgotten me I said I shall die in my nest and shall multiply my days as the sand when my root was spread out by the waters and the dew lay all night on my branch when my glory was fresh and my bow was renewed in my hand but I find while my flesh is upon me I shall have pain and while my soul is in me it shall mourn Have pity upon me O my friend