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A19332 A warning for worldlings, or, A comfort to the godly, and a terror to the wicked set forth dialogue wise, betweene a scholler and a trauailer / by Ieremie Corderoy, student in Oxford. Corderoy, Jeremy, b. 1562 or 3. 1608 (1608) STC 5757; ESTC S123358 95,926 364

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could I talke with you I haue all my sences this question is questionlesse Stud. But yet for all this Act. ● 38 you neuer saw your soule nor can wel describe vnto me what a thing it is Trau What if I neuer saw it nor can descibe it shall I therefore doubt whether I haue a soule or no her operations in me doe shew and prooue that I haue a soule Many things bee of that nature that they cannot be seene G●● 4.3 yet are no more to bee doubted of but that they are than whether the things which we see with our eyes are or no as the wind we see not yet our sence doth feele it my voice you see not yet you heare it we see not sweete or ill sauours yet our sence sheweth vs that there are such Stud. Were it not but that the Scripture teacheth me that God punisheth those who regard not to knowe him with a strange grosnesse of vnderstanding in spirituall matters and giueth them ouer to a reprobate sence 2. Thes 2 10.11.12 that they should not perceaue that which they sée I should much maruaile at you the like men Is it not strange that you can gather by consequent of reason that of necessitie there must he a guide in the shippe which sayleth in the sea because hee sayleth to the harbour auoyding all dangers which might annoy her which dangers shée could not possiblie auoid except she were guided by some hauing reason and skill how to direct and guide it And also acknowledge that you haue a soule in your body which what it is you cānot sufficiētly describe only because it manifesteth it selfe vnto you by her operations in you so that no way you can doubt but that you haue a soule whose substance you neuer saw yet séeing the admirable order and course of all things in the world continually guided and preserued in an order farre passing the capacity of man doubt whether there be a God which made guideth and preserueth al things Herein you are farre worse thē heathen mē who albeit they were neuer instructed by the word of God yet by the continuall and orderly course of the heauens and by the seasonable fruites of the earth all of them comming in their due times seasons did gather that there was a God which mooued the heauens in such order and caused all things here on earth to obserue their certaine course Therefore now I must deale with you as with a heathen man since you except against Scripture and by thinges séene prooue the inuisible power wisdome and goodnesse of God who that all men might be without excuse made the world that all men séeing the infinite hugenesse the great diuersitie and the orderly course of all things in it and enioy-the commodities of all things therein might acknowledge h●s infinite power admire his wisdome and with thankfulnesse laud him for his excéeding blessings If you will yeeld to sence and reason you must of necessitie acknowledge that the creation of the heauens earth and varietie of al things contained therein cannot be effected but by a diuine power far excéeding the power of all the Monarkes since the world beganne If you consider the admirable order of all things created in heauen earth wherein euery thing is placed in his dignitie you cannot but with wonder admire the admirable wisedome of the disposer And to enter into the particular consideration of it consider first the blessed Angels who as in dignitie they come nearest God their maker so according to their dignitie they are placed in a most blessed place Man in dignitie next vnto thē being a creature consisting of two different natures his soule of a heauēly substāce his body made of the erth though by reason of the vnion of the soule with the body hée liueth here on earth yet as Hermes termeth him is he a diuine creature and according to his spirituall substance hath his conuersation in heauen meditating on the glorious maiesty of God his chiefest felicitie desiring fully to enioy his presence who hath so far dignified him that for his onelye sake hee created all the world and man for his owne glorie to this end hath hee giuen man reason to consider of all his workes senses to behold them a tongue to magnifie his goodnesse for these his excellent blessinges next vnto man consider the heauens themselues the greatnes and compasse thereof the number of the Starres and their varietie their continuall and orderly motions without ceasing or wearinesse whose vertues and influences no tongue can expresse so necessarie for all thinges liuing heere on earth that if they should but stay their motions and but for a small time cease to send downe their influences vertues al things here on earth would fade and come to naught Infinite is the number of the starres and planets in Heauen their vertues so necessarie that if you take any of them away his defect would hinder the operations of the other For proofe of this I will instance but in two of them Whose vertues are known so necessary that without thē all the rest would serue to no purpose there is none so simple who knoweth not nor any so impudent as durst deny that if the Sun were taken out of the number of the Planets all the rest both of starres and planets would loose their light and consequently their operations all trées and hearbs which grow on earth cease bearing fruit and quickelye come to naught Take away the moone besides that the comfortable guidance which Trauilers by night haue by the benefit of her light would bee wanting all trées and hearbes also on the earth would soone wither away through the heate of the sun for want of her mo●stenning Nay suffer them to haue their being in heauen only stay their motions all things on earth would come to nothing For the Sun wheresoeuer hée stayed would skorch all things directly vnder him and dry thē to powder the Moone wheresoeuer shée stayed would putrify al things vnder her bring thē to rottennesse The like may be said in particular of euery star in heauen for if there were not a necessarie vse of euery one of them thē would it follow that God had made some thing in vaine the which you know is against a ground and principle in philosophie and therefore néedes not any farther proofe Next vnto these consider the decent order of the elements which as they are in dignitie one more excellent than another so according to their dignity are they placed one aboue another this I knowe you are not ignorant of being a matter agréed vpō by al Philosophers Lastly cōsider al things here on earth how they in their dumbe language do set forth the glorie of God here first consider the sea most wonderfull to behold and most profitable for al mankind wonderfull to sée how his mightie waues séeme to threaten the ouerflowing of all the earth yet by
dignity hee ordayneth him and whereunto hée maketh him euen like vnto himselfe The soule of man which is properly man according to that speech in the Scripture Gen. 2.7 1. Cor. 15.45 Mā was made a liuing soule is the very image of God As God is infinite and knoweth all things so is the soule of mā made infinite to receaue all knowledge He neuer knoweth so much but is capable to know more Secondly as the will of God is infinite so is the will of man made infinite not tyed to will this or that but whatsoeuer it pleaseth it cannot be constrayned to will any thing Thirdly as God is infinitely good so is the soule of man capable of infinite goodnesse nay it neuer ceaseth vntill it attayneth it Make man a King he is not satisfied but his desire enlargeth it selfe farther Make him a Monarke he is not contented he will desire more Make him Lord of all the world yet is he not contented The reason hereof is because these thinges may bée bettered So that as the natures of the elements are they neuer cease vntill they come to the place of their proper elemēt The fire neuer ceaseth tending vpward vntill it be aboue the element of the aire nor the aire vntil it be aboue the water nor the water euer ceaseth to fall downward vntill it come to the bottome of the sea nor any part of the earth vntill it come vnto the center of the earth if it were not hindred So the soule of man neuer ceaseth vntill it come vnto God himselfe from whome it came No finite goodnesse can satisfie it but only that wherein there is no defect which only is God himself Fourthly as God is eternal so the naturall desire of the soule is to be eternall in happinesse and to liue euerlastingly Fiftly as God ruleth al the world and euery creature therein and giueth life vnto them and motion so the soule of man giueth life vnto all the body of man and motions vnto euery member thereof and ruleth the whole body according to his wil nay further man according to that authority which God hath giuen him hath authority ouer all the beasts of the field fowles of the ayre fishes of the sea and all earthly creatures to rule vse them at his pleasure as a pettie God on earth Sixtly as God ruleth all the world yet can he not be séene nor comprehended what he is so the soule ruleth the whole body yet can it not be séene nor rightly by humane reason be comprehended what it is Seauenthly as God is in the world but is not contayned in any part of the world so the soule of man is in the body of man but is not contayned in any part of the body as your Aristotle saith but by his reasonable and spiritual faculties discourseth of things far distant from the body he is with a trise discoursing of matters in forraigne countries and in the twinckling of an eye at home againe He is considering on things on earth and in a moment he mounteth vp to heauē he is not wearied or payned with the greatnesse of the iourney There he discourseth on spirituall inuisible and diuine matters of the maiesty of God of his infinite wisdome power mercy and iustice of the felicity and eternall happines of the Angels all these the like operations the soule vseth without any ayde of the body Now in all things created there are two things to be considered the essence of the things and their operations There can be no operation of any thing whereof there is no essence no more thē there can be any accident without a subiect But you sée euen by the opinion of Aristotle that the soule h●th peculiar operations vnto himself no way depending on the ayde of the body Therefore the soule is a seuerall substance differing frō the substance of the body w●ose operations are diuine therefore their subiect the soule must néedes bee diuine But how now man what muse you on so stedfastly how do you now like Aristotle Trau I cannot tel what to say to this point it is hard for Aristotle or any humane reason wel to determine what the soule is it is so strange a thing Stud. You say right in diuine spirituall matters therfore you might doe well to beléeue diuine testimonies If you would but reade the Scripture beléeue it your mind would be easilie setled in this point and all others necessary for man to know in it there can be no errour Trau The Scripture no errour in it nay the Scripture was it that first draue me to these opinions For I find in it so many falshoods and vntruthes so many absurdities so many vnreasonable things that he is a sencelesse man that perceaueth it not and a foole that beleeueth it Stud. It is your manner to be confident in your opinion be it neuer so absurd But shew either any vntruth or absurdity or any vnreasonable thing contayned in the Scripture I will be of your opinion that no credit is to be giuen to the Scripture Trau Will you stand to your words Stud. Yes truely Trau Well then I will shewe you diuers playne and euident vntruths God sayd to Adam when he placed him in Paradise in that day that thou eatest of the tree of knowledge of good and euil thou shalt dye the death and in the next chapter following Moses saith that hee did eate of the forbidden fruite and dyed not and saith further in the 5. chapter Vers 5. that Adam liued nine hundred and thirtie yeares If he dyed not that day wherein hee did eate of the forbidden fruite But liued many yeares afterward and begat children Then that is not true that he should dye the same daye that hee should eate of the forbidden fruite If he dyed that day that he did eate of the forbidden fruite Then the other cannot be true that he liued so long and begat children then tell me which of these two are false The second vntruth I take out of the 4. chap. of Genesis When Caine had slaine his brother Abel God saith vnto him for his punishmēt a vagabond and a runnagate shalt thou be in the earth And yet in the same chapter it is sayd that Kain dwelt in the East side of Eden and builded a Citie If Caine were ahoushoulder and builded a Citie How was hee a vagabound and a runnagate both these cannot be true Tell me which of them is false A third vntruth I gather out of the whole scripture which is this large promises of health wealth and prosperitie vnto those that keepe the law of God And contrariwise many curses against the wicked Yet if the scripture be true they which in the Scripture are renowned for piety and holinesse were most afflicted and the wicked most abounded in prosperitie The like wee see in our dayes true for the most part Now tell mee whether these promises haue beene truely performed or no. A
practise it and with many priuie nippes they deride them Stud. Albeit I haue not bin much abroad so that out of experience I can say little how men practize that in their déedes which in words they professe yet I make no doubt but that at this time and this age there are more wicked mē who denie God by their déeds whom in words they professe then euer were since the world began For albeit there haue béene alwaies vngodly men yet at one time they abound more then in other The Scripture foresheweth vs that in these last daies corruption of māners should abound 2. Tim. 3.1 2. Pet. 3.3 2. Pet. 2. as errour in doctrine was prophesied should come immediately after the time of the Apostles termed the latter daies by the Apostle 1. Tim. 4.1 the truth of which prophesies the wofull experience of our forefathers can testifie of the one I meane the greatnesse of errour in doctrine of the other corruption of life and conuersation we who now liue cannot but acknowledge it to our griefe your selfe perceiue it finde it true Euen by this that all things come to passe according as the word of God foresheweth should come to passe I gather an vnfallible argument that the word of God Religion is not any inuention of man but that all things are disposed by the hand of God otherwise who can foretell many yeares before what afterwards shall come to passe Only God the disposer of al things can tell vs what shall come to passe Who therfore foresheweth vs what euils are to come and when that we might know that there is nothing which commeth to passe but by his disposition as also that being forewarned we might be the better armed and encouraged to withstand them since we know that they come not by chance but by the ordinance of God for our good if we patiently endure them and manfully withstand them As for the prowd disdainefulnesse of godles men who estéeme those fooles that sincerely endeauour to liue a godly life I do not much maruaile at it for in reason they cannot haue any better opinion of them presupposing that which they falsely presume that the whole felicitie of man is confined within the compasse of this present life that the soule dieth with the body that after this life there shall be no iudgement no heauen no hell no happinesse no reward for vertue and godlinesse no torment for lewdnesse of life and vngodlinesse that man is born by chance and also dyeth by chance They who thus think cannot but estéeme those fooles as Lactantius very well obserueth who whilst they expect future ioyes after this life Lib. 7. cap. 5. de diuino praemio doe let passe present pleasures and delights and whilst they expect happinesse not seene doe forgoe present worldly ioyes which are séene whilst they endeauour to auoide euils to come they runne into present euils This seemeth madnesse and foolishnesse to worldly wise men But notwithstanding this wrong conceite which Worldlings haue of godly men no reason it is that godly men should indéede become fooles either to please fooles or to séeme to be wise If the question be well discussed who are the wisest whether they who enioy al the pleasures of this world without respect of diuine and humane lawes or they who abstaine from voluptuous liuing and forgoe pleasures and commodities in respect of diuine humane laws it will easilie appeare who are the wisest Yea God himselfe hath pronounced of the wisdome of worldly men that it is but vaine But of the other wisdome Ps 94.11 1. Cor. 3.20 Pro. 16.16 Pro. 2.12 Iob 28.13 God saith that It is better than gold and siluer that It keepeth those that haue it from euill that it delighteth the soule And Iob speaking of the excellencie of it saith that Man cannot knowe the price of it This being so little cause haue any to be discouraged from well doing because fooles take them to be fooles Now wheras you say that Religion is but the inuention of certaine politick mē to restraine men frō offending and to kéep the simpler sort in obediēce for feare of future punishments after this life herein you much mistake the matter for were it only a subtile deuice of men and not a truth it would soone be descried for a forgerie and come to naught For common experience prooueth which also a great Polititian Gamaliel I meane doth not only acknowledge but also set it downe for a most sure grounded truth and prooueth it by former examples that the counsail● deuise which commeth not of God Act. 5.38 will come to naught Now that there is a God which rewardeth the iust and punisheth the wicked all men all Nations haue and do acknowledge Begin at the first borne in the world Cayne and Abell there was then no common wealth to gouerne so that they had no cause to dissemble a Religion Gen. 4.3 Yet they acknowledge a God and they sacrificed vnto God Come from these two first borne men and goe through all Nations that euer were and are to this day and you shall finde that saying of a heathen man Cicero who knew not God a right to bée most true That there is no Nation so barbarous but doth acknowledge a God For God hath reuealed himselfe vnto men many waies sometimes by visiōs somtimes by dreams sometimes by his wonders sometimes by his reuelations and written word But most generally to all men without exception Rom. 2.15 By his written law in the hearts and consciences of all men By vertue of which written lawe in their hearts al men naturally know good from bad That the good is to be embraced that euill is to be auoyded That the good and righteous man is worthy of reward That wicked and euill men are worthie punishment That truth is to be embraced That errour is to bée eschewed insomuch that no man can pretend any excuse when he doth euill since all men haue a naturall light whereby they may discerne good from bad As wée may sée amongst all heathen people who albeit they erre in the māner of worshipping God yet in that euery Nation throughout the world haue their seuerall Ceremonies Rites Sacrifices and peculiar manner of worshipping their Gods they shew in general that God is to be worshipped they erre not In pietatis affectu sed in religionis delectu as one saith in the they make lawes appoint punishments for euill dooers and rewards for those that doe well They shew that piety iustice honesty is to be embraced Nay they shew that not only man punisheth wickednesse but that there is a God that regardeth the doings of men as wée may sée in those Marriners which carried Ionas ●●nas 1.5 who of all men most commonly least feare God or men yet when God stirred vp a tempest they being in ieopardie of their liues each of them called vnto his God though they