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A00276 A dialogue betweene a vertuous gentleman and a popish priest [ ... ]pleasaunt and profitable, both for ministers and gentlemen, men and vvomen, old and yong, made by I.B. I. B., fl. 1581. 1581 (1581) STC 1039; ESTC S120239 70,214 160

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ministerye to be corrupted with such faultes of al the men in the worlde for it becometh them as they oughte to teache the trueth vnto their flocke so they * 1. Pet. 5.2 are to bee an example vnto them of good liuing Par. But by your leaue Syr before you condemne the matter you must prooue it to be a fault Gen. Why doe you not acknowledge your fault in so doing you make the faulte greater for to sinne and not to be sorye for sinne is to heape sinne vpon * Eccle. 23.11 sinne and in the end to reape the reward of iniquitie Par. But I pray you Syr doe you think there is such a fault in buying of benefices as you speake of and that it is any offence against God Gen. Truely I am perswaded that if Christ were now amongst vs as he was sometime amongst the Iewes and did see the marchandize that is made of benefices now a days he that could then so ill like of * Matt. 21.12 buying and selling in the churche would woorse like of buying and selling of the churche and therfore I think they that buy and sell benefices doe better deserue a whip to be scourged out of the churche then to have any thing at all to doe concorning the Church Par. Me thinkes you take the matter very hardly for truely I am of this mind that if a man buy a bencefice when the mony is once tolde the benefice is cleane sold and then it is lawful for the minister to vse it as his owne Gen. And I thinke it is more lawfull for you to vse it as your owne when you once haue it then it is to pay for it when it is in your choyse to leaue it Par. And are you of the same minde of hauing many benefices that it is not lawfull for one man to haue more then one Gen. I thinke it to be as lawfull for you to haue 3. benefices as it is for me to haue 3. wiues and as the one by the law of man is vnlawfull so are they both in the sight of God most abhominable Par. I pray you Syr shewe me some reason for these matters I neuer hard man so dislike with these thinges as you doe before Gen. These bee the reasons that cause me to thinke that the hauing of more then one benefice for one man to bee vnlawfull First because it is not lawfull for one man to haue more then one man can discharge secondly that the minister shoulde not the so fed with the vaine desires of this corrupte worlde that it mighte drawe him from the loue of the worlde to come for as they feede them selues so they feede others and such meate as they receiue into their owne bellies the breth thereof they blowe vppon their whole parishioners being perswaded that it is lawfull for themselues to liue as hogges in a Stye connot teach their flocke any other doctrine then to feede thē selues as the Oxe that is fed to the flaughter Par. Nay I pray you Syr sauing your tale cannot one man discharge three benefices Gen. No I muste tell you nowe as I tolde you before I knowe it and I woulde wish you to remember it that it is not law full for one man to haue more then one mā can discharge Par. That is wel said I wil say so too of this matter I can speake by experience that one man may wel discharge thrée benefices for I my selfe haue had three benefices almost these twenty yeres and I thanke God I know not the man that can aske a penny of me for the discharge of the same Gen. Oh master parson I praye you mistake me not I meane not but you may agree with the world for greater matters then these but when you haue discharged your self of this world this world shal be discharged of you then haue you the greateste account of all to reckon for for when you are deade and leuiled all youre accountes with man then shall you bee arraigned before * Heb. 9.27.20.24.12 te iudgemente seate of God there to aunswére to such thinges as shal be layd to your charge and if you cannot then answer for your self no man shall be aloud to speak for your if you be demanded how you entred into the ministery what will you say your father did compell you so you your Father for simning together shal without repentance be destroied for euer if you be demanded how you came by your benefices wil you say you haue paid sufficiently for them and your Patrons and you did agree wel ynough so you may prooue your selfe well friended amongst men and be vtterly cast out of the fauoure of God if you be demanded howe you haue liued will you say you haue beene a good fellowe and haue fed youre Parishioners with the fruites of their owne handes so you may haue heauen and earth to beare witnes against you for liuing by the swet of other mens brows if you be asked when you haue fed their bodies how you haue fed their souls if you said so manie benefices the you could not be resident on thē al at once therefore doe what you could you coulde not do as you should you shall be sure to receiue the reward of an vnprofitable seruāt Par. Yea but sir I say not so neither do I thinke but that I doe discharge my 3. benefices as well as if I had but one for because I cannot my selfe be in all places at all times I haue two ministers that do see as good order in my other 2. benefices as if I were there my selfe Gen. I beleeue you Master Parson that the order of your ministers and your owne is much like but doe you thinke to doe your dutie by an attorney so you may chaunce to go to heauen by an attorney Par. You are the straungest gentleman that euer I talked withall do you find such faulte in me for hauing 3. benefices and these 3. lie somewhat rounde togeather what if I can tell you of one man that hath 4. benefices and euery of them is fourscore miles a sunder howe thinke ye may hee supplie so many beeing so farre one from the other Gen. I thinke hee maye better supplie these 4. then you do your 3 Par. What doe you thinke so I woulde fain know how so vnlikely a matter might be brought to passe Gen. Thus in my iudgement it might very well be done first if he were hanged then if vpon euery of his foure parish churches were hanged one of his four quarters so shoulde all his parishioners bee sure alwaies to haue some part of their parson resident Par Ah I perceiue you are a merie Gentleman and disposed to lest therefore and you say the worde by my faith let vs haue a little merrie talke another while Gen. What master Parson doe you sweare Par. Oh I cry you mercy sir can you not abide swearing Gen. Nay cry God mercie for it is
world to come and that this world may not deceiue you consider it as it is and think no better of it thē it doth deserue loue it no dearer then you would your enemie for the Apostle saith * 1. Iohn 2.15 if we loue the world or the things in the world the loue of God is not in vs and if you wil say you * Ioh. 14.2.4 loue God and keepe not his commandementes you will prooue your selfe a liar there is no truth in you Know therfore the this world is vaine and al worldlie things are vanitie the righteousnes is perfect blessednes and to know God in truth is the cheefest felicitie and to put away confidence in man or any worldly helpe is to trust to a broken staffe which in th ende will deceiue you thinke no fréedome so to be desired as the seruice of God to know that better it is for you to be Christs Chaplin without a benefice then to haue all the liuinges in the worlde and bee out of his seruice and thinke it not inough to depart with one benefice and keepe two in your hand but if you may be vnburdened of that which you cannot discharge and haue pardon for your former sinnes committed say you are well vsed and finne no more and Christe teacheth vs that he that wil be his disciple * Mat. 16.2 must deny himselfe and take vp his crosse and follow him Now if I should counsel you to keepe any thing that might hurt you or hinder Gods glory I shoulde go beyond my commission and commit sin with you therefore to tel you the troth because you are an vnpreaching Prelate and vnmeet for that office I would wish you to giue ouer the function you haue no skill-of and leaue al your benefices as things that perteine not vnto you Let not so many soules perishe through one mans negligence but haue a care of your selfe as well as of them flatter not your selfe any longer least you your flock perish togeather let suche haue your roome that can teache them better and let such shere the sheepe as can feede the flocke that you may saue your selfe and thē let not worldly perswasions worke you destruction but let such flatterers goe for lyers that will tell you you are vnwise if you so doe you shall loose your credite you friends wil faile you no man wil regard you let these and such like tales goe for chaffe that is blowne awaye with the winde and whose substaunce will soone haue an ende for if the Lorde will be serued and his iudgement executed for so great a sinne al the world cannot pay your ransome neither shall any man be able to set you free Therfore in this matter deale wisely for your selfe for it is your selfe that shall stand to the stake for the whole depart with this vngodly promotion which this wicked worlde hath brought you and you shall haue treasure in heauen and because it is so that you are not able to take vppon you the charge of soules withoute the destruction of your selfe and them discharge your selfe quite of so great a daunger and keepe not a benefice for feare of displeasure Par. What wil you not haue me keepe one benefice then you deale more hardly with mee then I thought you woulde but there shal be no more adoe of the matter I will kepe my selfe as I am and therefore in vsing these perswasions you doe but loose your labour the charge is mine and I onely shall auswere for it therefore I woulde wish you to looke to your selfe and take no farther care for me Gen. What are you nowe come to this passe and is this the thanke that for my good will I shall receiue I was in good hope when you were once running you would not haue staied before you had come to the goale but oh howe true is that saying nowe fulfilled in you which was spoken so long agone that * 2. Pet. 2 2● the dogge is turned to his old vomite againe the sow that was washed to her wallowing in that mire Oh couetousnes couetousnes howe well may it be called the roote * 1 Tim. 10.6 of all euil that sendeth so many soules headlong to the diuel Par. What you are farre deceiued gentleman do you thinke that couetousnes is in mee no I abhorre it with al my heart and loue of monie is farre from me Gen. What are you not couetous I pray you what did then moue you to take 3. benefices when as one of them is liuing sufficient for you Par. I perceiue you knowe not what you say for I tel you troth I can not liue with one benefice Gen. No I praye you what is one of your benefices that doth yeelde you leaste worth you by the yeere Par. I thinke it bee woorth me a fortie or fifie pounds Gen. And I pray you what do you giue vnto your Curate by the yeare that doeth serue your benefice Par. I giue him ten pound by the yere Gen. And why can you not liue with fourty or fiftie pounds by the year as well as your Curate that hath but ten pounde by the yeare Par. I see well Gentleman you take all things at the worst but I will tell you and not lye vnto you wherfore one benefice would not content mee and so small a liuing will not satisfie me I did consider my calling how that I was a gentleman and therefore I thought it not ynough for mee to liue as the common sorte doe which are but plaine fellowes of the country and I knew no way how to make any difference but onlie by procuring my self such liuings as might mainteine me like a gentleman and being once a minister you knowe it is not lawful to possesse other liuinges then such as belong to the ministerie and therefore I had no way to make vp the matter or bring my purpose to passe but onelye by hauing two or thrée benefices and now you see the worlde what it is howe that he that hath nothing shal be nothing set by and hauing a good liuing and being able to beare some countenance he may be a companion for a right good Gentleman and I promise you these were the causes that did moue me to take so many liuings not for couetousnes sake as you do imagine Gen. Was it your chiefest regarde to haue greatest respect vnto these vanities I perceiue you are a right worldling and by a wrong dore haue entred into the ministerie you say you did respect your calling and that was how you were a gentleman ●ut I perceiue you had forgotten another calling which al ministers ought to haue regarde vnto and that is that you are no longer called to be a gentleman and to liue at ease but if you will be the man that you ought to be you must forsake your selfe and follow Christ and as neer as you may imitate his steps and then see what examples are