the Saints in Heaven are prayed to at once as it is in many Collects and peculiarly on all Saints Dayes surely that day is not an holy day to the Guardian Angel who must be fain to trot to all the Saints in Heaven and acquaint them that Serenus Cressie being very sick and weak desires their prayers But when they pray to all Angels then the poor Angel must not travel over all the Heavens onely but the Earth to boot But we will not deal too severely with him let him proceed and thus he doth it History tells us that Magiclans have alwaies the Devil ready to come at their call why then should not Angels be witnesses of our Actions P. 184. and especially our prayers which as the Scrripture saith they offer as Incense to God Now to I eave the Scripture till anon Here we have more work for the Angel for seeing 't is an Angel Apoc. 8.3 that offers up the prayers and incense of all Saints the Guardian Angel must make a journey to him to unless you will have him to be Christ which will do our Author but little service 2. History likewise will tell us that Magicians and Witches can swim over the Sea in a shell can creep through a key-hole Can dip their finger in a little juice and flie away out of the Chimnie he may believe one as soonas the other Lastly the number of Magitians I hope is few in comparison of other men and so there is some difference as to that for one Devil may better afford to be nigh them especially seeing his service is so much promoted thereby As to that dispute of Saint Austine which concludes the Section I say 1. That he was very uncertain in it and one while denies and again suspects that such a thing might be 2. He saith only possit fieri it may be done this way And again 3. Vt quaedam cognoscant that they may know something and how little service this will do him every one may see P. 184. S. 8. 2. He further tells us We are ignorant how great the sphere of Activitie of the glorified Saints may be in respect of this whole visible world perhaps saith he in the words of Spalatensis the whole sensible world may be no more to one of them then its proper body to an humane soul informing it Answ And are not these men think you put to their shifts who are fain to coin such inventions to salve their Hypothesis But tell me is it probable they inform the whole world so as to be present each of them in every part of the world Or Secondly to operate in each part of the world albeit not present there If the first then will they be little short of omnipresent nor will it be proper to God to fill Heaven and Earth and they being in Hell as well as Heaven and also in Purgatorie How do they escape the fire How â—re the Angels said to ascend to Heaven and descend from it Is it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 only How are the souls of the Fathers delivered from their limbus said to depart thence and to be with Christ to be absent from the body and present with the Lord was Lazarus's soul carried to Heaven and afterwards extended Again to what end is this extension seeing they may be happie without it and why should we imagine it seeing here 't is certain they are not extended beyond their bodies If the second let them tell me how or by what Operation a soul that is in Heaven can tell that such a one who praies in his mind only is praying to him And suppose two were praying together and the one prayed to Peter and the other to Paul by what operation can these spirits discern that the one prayed to him and not the other I suppose a Praier to Saint Paul makes a different motion in their Orb of Aether but then how doth St Paul know who it is that praies to him Perhaps different men make different motions but Saint Paul never knew them and how shall he be informed Why the Guardian Angel must go up and tell him 't is S. C. that makes such a motion and haply he will remember it But how will he know when he prayes Hypocritically why truly when an Hypocrite praies it makes a different motion from a sincere one in the spirits Orb of Air. This Platonical stuff is all that I can imgine to salve the Hypotheses Si quid novisti rectius istis candidus imperti Lastly be it that their presence or operations were so vast yet could they not judge of the heart seeing to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is proper to God and consequently must be as zealous for an Hypocrite as a devout Christian Thirdly Sect. 9 we cannot tell saies he what things God may reveal to them Answ Nor he whether he reveals any thing to them at all and therefore in these things he doth most evidently 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 2. What a ridiculous thing is this to suppose such a Circle that when a man hath made a praier that praier should come to God and be revealed by him to a Saint and that Saint bring it to God again 3. Why must he be thought to reveal this to the Spirits in Heaven and not to the Souls in Purgatorie or if equally why are not they also praied to 4. But it is evident from Scripture that God doth not make any revelations of this kind for 't is said Eccles 9.5 The Dead know nothing that is done in this world neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the Sun And again Abraham is ignorant of us Esay 93.16 5. Bellar. himself confutes this Evasion by 2 Arguments 1. If it were so the Church would not say so boldly to all Saints Orate pro nobis but sometimes would prayto God to reveal our desires to them 2. No good reason can be given why Saints under the Old Testament should not be invoked for God might have revealed their Petitions to them though in Limbo Patrum and sure their praiers might have been as beneficial as the praiers of such as were alive 6. Why upon the same presumption should we not pray to the Saints living for albeit their praiers be not quite so effectual as the praiers of Saints departed yet they are effectual and consequently to neglect this will be to neglect one means conducing to our welfare I say upon the same presumption for this reason why God must be supposed to reveal our Praiers can be no other then our good and would not the reason move him to reveal them to Saints on Earth as well as those in Heaven Mr. Cr. p. 185. Oh but saith our adversarie If God said to Abraham a Pilgrim on Earth shall I hide from Abraham the thing that I do how much more may we imagine tha he hideth not the mightie works of his mercie
into Hell with the damned but receive them into glory which prayers the Church of Rome at this day makes for all the faithfull Now after these testimonies produced Sect. 15 our * Pag. 120. Authour returns to his Dilemma before sufficiently confuted If these Souls were believ'd to be in Heaven would it not be ridiculous and must then Liturgies and Fathers cited by us be ridiculous which pray for pardon of sins refreshment light and peace and a place in the bosome of Abraham for those whom you acknowledge to have been already at rest in the enjoyment of God in Abrahams bosome If in Hell would it not be impious Oh impious St. Chrysostome St. Augustine * Origen Greg. Nyssen Jerome and perhaps Epiphanius to offer the dreadful sacrifice to make supplications to be at charge in alms for the obtaining them repose c. but if they be neither in Heaven nor Hell where are they then Answ In sinu Abrahae or at rest in some state of pleasure and free from all punishment as you are told by Irenaeus Tertullian Origen Pseudo-Justin Lactantius Victor Dilly de Satisfact l. 5. c. 3 4 5 6. Hilary Ambrose Prudentius Chrysostome Jerome Augustine expecting the enjoyment of the Kingdom of Heaven at the Resurrection And thus having gone over our Adversaries testimonies in Defence of Pugatory we shall now add ex abundanti a few Arguments against it And first if there be no such punishments as the Papists do imagine suffer'd by the faithfull after this Life then are not their Souls in Purgatory but there is no such punishment of the faithful after this Life And first were there any such punishments of the faithful after this Life how wonderful is it that no Consolations should be given in against them There is not any evil that can befall us here but the Scripture hath afforded us some Consolation against it But though the punishments in Purgatory be more grievous by their own confession then any we can suffer here yet have we not one word of Consolation against them Secondly Abraham tells Dives that he had receiv'd his good things in this Life and Lazarus his evil and now he is comforted and thou tormented what is this comfort but his being carried into Abrahams bosome When was he carried thither when he dyed verse 22. The beggar died and was carried not into Purgatory but into Abrahams bosome The rich man dyed also and was buried I suppose none will deny that the rich man was buried presently after his death and then why should they deny that Lazarus was carried into Abrahams bosome soon after his death And if Abrahams bosome were Purgatory I cannot say he had cold but I 'me sure he had but small comfort of being there But be it so that he was not in Abrahams bosome yet he had receiv'd his evil things in this Life saith Father Abraham which with what truth could he have so said had he been to receive so great and so long punishments when his life was ended Now seeing this beggar had no prae-eminence over other beggars that are supposed to live piously as this Lazarus did or above other of the Saints of God if he escaped Purgatory and was immediately receiv'd into Abrahams bosome why may not they Thirdly The evils which the faithful suffer they suffer in the time of their peregrination and absence from their Fathers house but that is terminated and defined by our being in the body thus Peter Ep. 1. c. 1. vers 17. calls it the time of our sojourning 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the time of our being from home the time of our being in this world saith Estius And again 2 Cor. 5.6 Dum sumus in corpore peregrinamur à Deo And when we are absent from the body we are present with the Lord therefore we are not absent from the Lord when we are in Purgatory we are absent from the Lord Ergo when we are absent from the body we are not in Purgatory A second Argument shall be this They that go to Abrahams bosome Paradise or an house not made with hands eternal in the Heavens do not go to Purgatory at the same time but the faithful presently after death go to the fore-mentioned places or some of them Because they go to them when their earthly Tabernacle is dissolved 2 Cor. 5.1 We know that if our earthly tabernacle were dissolved we have a building not made with hands eternal in the Heavens Now this implies that as soon as we are dispossess'd of one of these houses we go to the other or else the comfort would be but cold and the oration not worthy of God but delusory For put the Case I should tell my friend I see thy house is going to ruine But care not for it I have a better for you to betake your self to when that fails If he should come to me a while after for this house and I tell him true I have an house for him but he must be content to lie first ten or twenty years in the street and after that he shall go into it would not my friend think I had dealt very deceitfully with him having given him ground to hope that presently after the fall of his house he should have another So God here tells us well Christians if your house once fall your body be dissolved be not troubled you shall have an house in heaven when their body is dissolv'd they come expecting an house in heaven pleading his promise should God say true you shall have an house in Heaven but you must burn In purgatory first for a 100. yeers or two would he not seem to mock us 2. The house is said to be had when our earthly body is dissolved now this is either because we are then presently to enjoy it then down falls purgatory or else because after a hundred years in purgatory we shall enjoy it If so why may we not be said to have it before this house is dissolv'd seeing by our good works Martyrdom indulgence procured we may make our purgatory the shorter while we live here Bellarmine Answers true we shall go to heaven presently but only we that are cloathed that is endued with excellent vertues and merits and have perfected our repentance But the rest that are naked shall be saved so as by fire But 1. The Apostle saith they alone shall have the heavenly house who are cloath'd that being the condition yea this is the condition of their groaning to be dissolved which saith he we would not do were we to be found naked and yet they that were in this tabernacle did groan therefore none of them would be found naked 2. Those that go to Heaven are cloathed upon But those that go naked to purgatory cannot be so For seeing to be cloathed is to be adorn'd with more eminent degrees of virtue and they themselves acknowledge that in purgatory there is no place for the encrease of virtue
in vain that the Arrians pretend Synods for their faith when they have the divine Scripture more powerful then them all from whence the Argument is apparent that which is more powerful then all Synods for the stablishing of faith is a sufficient means of unity because the power of General Synods is supposed to be so but such is the holy Scripture according to Athanasius Ergo. Nor is there any contradiction to this in what is cited from Athanasius by Mr. C. viz. that he wonders how any one dares move a question touching matters defined by the Nicene Council since the decrees of such Councils cannot be changed without errour For what consequence is this the decrees of such Councils as the Nicene whose decrees were Orthodox and regulated by the Scripture cannot be changed without errour Ergo general Councils are infallible especially when Athanasius immediately gives this reason viz. because the faith there delivered according to the Scriptures seemed sufficient to him to overturn all impiety so then this is the reason of their immutability because their decrees were delivered according to the Scriptures 2. Sect. 13 Optatus Milev speaks thus we must seek Judges viz. in the controversies betwixt you Donatists Cont. Parmen l. 5. and us Catholicks on earth there can no judgement of this matter bee found viz. none which is infallible as appears from the words precedent no body may beleive you nor any body us for we are all contentious men and again by fiding the truth is hindred we must seek a Judge from heaven but wherefore should we knock at Heaven when we have it here in the Gospel in which place he evidently concludes that no convention of men are to bee beleived for their own Authority nemo vobis Donatistis nemo nobis Catholicis credat 2. That there could be no infallible Judge of that controversie upon earth both which are sufficiently repugnant to this pretended infallibility 3. Sect. 14 Vincentius Lirinensis in his discourse upon this Question Adv. Her c. 1. how a Christian may bee able surely to discern the Catholick truth from Heretical falsity adviseth us to this end to fortifie our Faith 1. By the authority of Gods Law 2. By the Tradition of the Catholick Church Hujusmodi semper responsum ab omnibus fere retuli this way saith he I was directed to by almost all the Learned men I enquired of So that this opinion here delivered was not his private one but it was the common way by which the Fathers of his age discerned truth from errour and here let it be considered 1. That by the Tradition of the Catholick Church hee doth not understand the definition of any General Council but partly the universal consent of the members of the then present Church partly the constant and perpetual profession and doctrine of the Antient Church Cap. 3. as his own words do evince unto us for he tells us that is properly Catholick Quod ubique quod semper quod ab omnibus creditum est which is believed every where at all times and by all men this saith he we must be careful to hold as we shall he if we follow universality antiquity and consent What ever exceptions are made by the Papists to this evidence De formali objecto fidei p. 210 c. are taken off by the Learned Baron 2. Let it here bee noted that Vincentius doth not so much as once in all his Book direct us to the determinations much less to the infallible determination of the Pope Roman Church or a General Council as the way to discern truth from Heresie and yet his silence in these particulars could not easily be imagined in a treatise written purposely on that subject and wherein he undertaketh to give us full and certain directions to avoid Heresie if the Church had then been of the Romanists opinion St. Austin's testimony is as clear for thus he speaks Ep. 19. ad Hieron I have learned to give only to those writings which are now called Canonical this reverence and honour as that I dare say that none of them erred in writing but others I so read that how holy and learned so ever they be I do not therefore think it true because they so judge it but because they perswade me either by those Canonical books or by probable reason that they say true If therefore this honour of being free from errour in their writing is only to bee ascribed to the Canonical Books of Scripture then must the decretal Epistles of Popes the decrees of General Councils be excluded from it according to St. Austin as being writers which are not Canonical For the particle solas excepts all that are not so yea hee doth not only compare all other writers with Scripture in this contest but their writings also as in this same Epistle Only to the holy Scriptures Ep. 112. do I owe this ingenuous servitude so to follow them alone as not to doubt that the writers of them erred in any thing And again If any thing be affirmed by the clear Authority of the holy Scriptures it is undoubtedly to bee beleived but as for other witnesses or testimonies whereby we are perswaded to beleive any thing Tibi credere vel non credere liceat wee are free to beleive them or not But undeniable is that of his third Book against Maximinus neither ought I as fore-judging to bring forth the Nicene Council nor thou the Council of Ariminum I am not bound by the Authority of this nor thou of that let matter contend with matter cause with cause reason with reason by the authorities of the Scriptures which are witnesses not proper to either of us but common to both Here wee are told that St. Austin speaks not his own minde but the minde of the Hereticks he hath to deal with an answer haply borrowed from Zabarel or some other Commentator upon Aristotle who when they are not able to avoid his sentences any other way tell us that he speaks ex mente aliorum Philosophorum but the truth is otherwise as appeareth from the 18. and 19. chap. of his Book de unitate Ecclesiae where the like passage may be found and the Question being there stated which is the true Church hee desires the Donatists to demonstrate their Church not in the speeches and rumours of the Africans not in the Councils of their Bishops c. but in the Canonical-Authorities of the sacred Books and c. 19. gives this reason of his demand because saith he neither do we say that they ought to beleive us to bee in the Church of Christ because that Church which we hold is commended by Optatus Ambrose or innumerable other Bishops of our Communion or because it is predicated by the Councils of our Colledges c. and then speaking of the holy Scriptures he saith These are the documents of our cause these are it's foundations these are it's upholders as
him that not the asserting of these opinions but the imposing of them on us as conditions of our communion with them the obtruding them into their Liturgies and publick offices are the causes of our refusing Communion with them and therefore that Mr. C. would he draw the Parallel must evidence that this was done by the universal Church in the daies of St. Gregory Nor 4. That it is not evident that there was such an Harmony betwixt the Eastern and Western Churches but rather the contrary as touching the Celibacy of Priests the power of the Pope c. I say to omit all these and many other things my last Proposition shall be this That neither St. Sect. 10 Gregory taught all these Doctrines nor yet were they embraced by our Church at that time 9 Proposition For to begin with St. Gregory 1. I have sufficiently evinced already that hee denied the Popes Supremacy 2. As for the infallibility of the Roman Church had hee known this to have been the opinion of those daies is it not a wonder that he should never plead it against his opponents and Adversaries 3. Touching transubstantiation Communion in one kinde the Sacrifice of the Mass what can you produce out of Gregory for them And 1. Mr. C. p. 137. As for Communion in one kinde you acknowledge that it was not practised for a thousand years and upward and where doth St. Gregory tell us that it may bee practised otherwise we have shewed you above that Pope Leo and Gelasius thought it no better then Sacriledge to Rob the People of the Cup and therefore if you affirm Gregory to have held the contrary as it is gratis dictum so will it be but an evidence of his departing from what was formerly maintained by his own Church 2. Where doth he say that Christ is corporeally in the Sacrament and that the substance of bread and wine remains not Nay Sacrificium quod passionem filii semper imitatur Dial. l. 4. c. 58. Non inordinate agimus si ex libris licet non Canonicis sed tamen ad edificationem Ecclesiae editis testimonia proferamus Moral l. 19. c. 16. Graeg in Ezek. l. 1. Hom. 9. that it then obtained not in the Church of God nor was esteemed as an Article of their faith is fully evidenc'd by Bishop Usher in his book de Christ Eccles success l. 1. c. 2. And for the sacrifice of the Mass he tells us that Christ is Mystically there offered and that this is such a sacrifice which is an imitation of Christs passion Against your new Canon of Scripture which the Dr. quarreld with he is most evident in his Morals where hee saith citing the 6 of Maccabees that it was not Canonical Against your Traditions necessary to supply the defect of Scripture hee tells us whatsoever serveth for edification and instruction is contained in the Volume of the Scripture And again Hereticks do usually for the confirmation of their perverse opinions suggest such proofs which are not found in Scripture and what I pray you are your Traditions yea all the doctrines you contend for in this Book And whereas you Sacrilegiously Rob the People of the use of Scripture he on the contrary assures us Graeg l. Epist 40. ad Theod. Med. that it is an Epistle sent from God to his Creature that is to Priest and People And if thou receive a Letter saith hee from an Earthly King thou wilt never sleep nor rest till thou understandest it The King of Heaven and God of men and Angels hath sent his Letters to thee for the good of thy soul and yet thou neglectest the reading of them Therefore I pray thee study them and dayly meditate on the Word of thy Creatour and learn the minde of God in the words of God You tell us that the worship of images must be observed Graeg l. 9. Ep 9. Adorare imagines omnibus modis devita and acknowledged by all means he contrariwise that by all means it must be avoided And again in the same place 't is unlawful to worship any thing that is made with hands because it is written thou shalt worship the Lord thy God and him only shalt thou serve and again in his Epistle to Serenus Bishop of Massilia I commend you that you had that Zeal that nothing made with hands should be worshiped but yet you should not have broken them c. but let them bee proserved and forbid the people the worshiping of them that the ignorant may have whence to gather the knowledge of the history and yet not sin in worshiping the Picture You assert a Purgatory after this life he is thought to contradict it by John Pank who p. 20. proves the contrary 1. Moral l. 8. c. 8. From his Morals where he saith whom mercy now delivereth not him justice after the world alone imprisoneth To which purpose is that of Salomon That in whatsoever place the tree falleth whether toward the South or towards the North there it shall be because at the time of a mans death either the good spirit or the evil spirit shall receive the soul going from the body he shall hold it with him for ever without any charge that neither being exalted it can come down to punishment nor being drowned in eternal punishments can thenceforth rise to any remedy of Salvation If then after death there bee no deliverance there be no change but as the Angel either good or bad receiveth the soul out of the body so it continueth for ever either exalted in joy or drowned in punishment then there can be no Purgatory then there can be nothing but Heaven or Hell where they that come shall abide for ever And in another place It is undecent to give our selves to long affliction for them whom wee are to beleive have come by death to true life This therefore seeing wee know we are to have a care not to be afflicted for the dead but to bestow our affliction on the living to whom our piety or devotion may bee profitable and our love yeild fruit Here is no place for Purgatory seeing he teacheth us to beleive that the faithful in death do attain to true life and that their passage from this world is to a better Neither doth hee acknowledge any use of Prayers Masses Trentals or any other offices or obsequies for the Dead who saith that our devotion and love yeildeth no fruit or profit to them Lastly as for Marriage of Priests I do not deny but that at first Pope Gregory did command them to live single but when hee understood that they were given secretly to fleshly pleasure and that hereupon many Children were Murthered many infants heads found in a Fish-pond hee disanulled that commandment p. 288. Vid. Sup. chap. 17 sect ult Now against this evidence we have nothing but the confession of an Osiander an Hâ—mphry and a Carrion whose citation by the way is altogether impertinent with
to what these testimonies seem to speak nor doth he there say as our Author cites him Baptisme alone may suffice to the salvation of Infants indeed one of the places tels us that there is full remission of sins in Baptisme and consequently if the person Baptized should instantly depart this life si continuo consequatur ab hac vita migratio he will not be obnoxious to any thing agreeable to which is the place cited from venerable Bede but hence we can only infer that St. Austin thought in such a case of absolute necessity they might be dispensed with through the mercy of God but yet 't is evident he held they had a right to the Sacrament and that ordinarily it was necessary to their obtaining life eternal Which also most evidently appears from the Book cited by our Author cap. 24. he cites cap. 22. From an Antient and as I suppose Apostolical Tradition the Churches of Christ have this deeply setled in them that without Baptisme and the participation of the Lords Supper no man can attain to the Kingdom of God nor yet to life eternal which after he had endeavoured to prove from 1 Peter 3. and John 6. he proceeds thus If therefore so many testimonies Divine convince us that everlasting life is not to be expected without Baptisme and the body and blood of Christ 't is in vain to promise it to children without them Now if this opinion which St. Austine saith was so deeply setled in the See Austin ep 95. De usu Patrum p. 263 264. Church of God and which was held by Innocent the first by St. Cyprian and others as Dally may inform you be not a flat contradiction to the Trent Councils Anathema upon those who hold Parvulis necessariam esse Eucharistiae communionem let any reasonable man judge CHAP. X. The Question stated by Mr. C. Sect. 1. Prayer for the dead infers not Purgatory Sect. 3. The Doctrine of the Church of Rome not faithfully related Sect. 4. Prayer for the dead not of Apostolical Antiquitie Sect. 5. The Testimony of St. Denis considered Sect. 6. Of Tertullian Sect. 7. Of St. Cyprian Sect. 8. St. Chrysostome Sect. 9. Eusebius Sect. 10. Epiphanius Sect. 11. An evasion confuted Sect. 12. St. Ambrose Sect. 13. St. Austin not for Purgatory Sect. 14. Mr. C s. Dilemma considered Sect. 15. Arguments against Purgatory Sect. 16 17. Mr. C s. Argument Answered S. 18 19. IN this Chapter our Author tells us Sect. 1 That the Church obligeth all Catholicks no further Sect. 4. 5. 111 112. then simply to believe there is a State or place of Souls in which they are capable of receiving help or ease by Prayers whereupon he gives us a Prayer of the Mass which mercifully desires to all that rest in Christ a place of refreshment light and peace through Christ our Lord and also another which beseecheth the Lord to absolve the soul of his servant from all the Chains of his sin Now saith he if it can be demonstrated That by the Universal practice of the Church such Prayers as these were made for the dead it unavoydably follows that the souls for whom they are made are neither in Heaven nor Hell and if so where are they Dr. Pierce speak like an honest man Sect. 1 Answer This is a shrewd Argument which forceth the Doctor either to lose his Honesty or his Cause But sure the Case is not so desperate For were this the Doctrine of the Church of Rome which yet is an evident untruth and were these Prayers used from the beginning and that through the Universal Church of God which cannot be proved yet would I defie his Conclusion and his Argument to infer it For 1. Sect. 2 If Prayer for a place of refreshment exclude the person prayed for at present out of Heaven then is there not one Saint one Martyr nay not the Virgin Mary her self now in Heaven seeing the Prayer begs this to all that rest in Christ Sess 9. De invocatione Sanctorum and then farewel the Council of Trent which talks of Saints reigning with Christ aeterna felicitate in Coelo fruentium Nay the Liturgy of Saint James prayes for the Spirits of all flesh which they had prayed for and which they had not from righteous Abel to that very day that they might rest in the Region of the living in the Kingdome of God in the delights of Paradise in the bosome of Abraham Isaac and Jacob And yet will our Authour say That there is not one of these souls in Heaven And so for the absolving of their sins which is his second instance The Liturgy of Saint Crhysostom Prayes for all the Fathers and Brethren 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that had gone before them for all that had laboured and administred in the Holy Function before them for the forgiveness of the sins of the builders of their Mansions worthy to be had in perpetual remembrance and prayes God to pardon 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 all the Orthodox Fathers and Brethren which slept in the Communion of God in the hope of the Resurrection and Eternal Life Dall de Satisfact page 510. And likewise Saint Augustin prayes for his Mother that the Lord would pardon her sins Confes l. 9 c. 13 I know O Lord saith he That she was merciful and from her heart forgave her Debtors Do thou therefore forgive her debts if she hath contracted any after her Baptisme for so many years Forgive her Lord forgive her I beseech thee do not thou enter into judgment with her And so on and yet the same Austin tells us what ever it be that is signified by Abrahams bosome there his Mother is ibi vivit nam quis alius tali animae locus for what other place was fitting for her Of such prayers our Author may find good store in Dall ubi supra pag. 520. Now then is Abrahams bosome Purgatory Are all the Orthodox Fathers in Purgatory or if not is it not evident that the Church hath made such prayers for those that are not in Purgatory Sect. 4 2. We shall tell him in the sequel of the Chapter That these prayers of the Fathers depended partly upon suppositions exploded by the Romanist himself partly upon other things which cannot suppose a Purgatory in the mild'st sence Sect. 5 But is it true that the Romanist's Purgatory is onely a place wherein souls are capable of receiving help or ease by prayers why then may it not be Heaven for the souls there may be help't to a fuller state of Glory by our prayers as the Fathers generally affirm 2. The Trent Council tells us that the Catholick Church out of Scripture and the ancient Tradition of the Fathers and the holy Councils hath taught us that there is a Purgatory and thereupon commands the Bishops to be diligent that the sound Doctrine of Purgatory taught by the Fathers and Councils should be believed held and every where preached Now
let us hear him telling us what the Priests demand from God for the person departed Eccles Hist c. 7. a pardon of all fins committed by him through humane frailty and that he may be conducted into Abrahams bosome into a place from which grief sadness and mourning was banished But that this place of Dionysius makes nothing for Purgatory appears first in that the party is described by him to have departed out of this life replenished with Divine joy as now not fearing any change to worse being come to the end of all his labour and to have been both privately acknowledged by his friends and publickly pronounced by the Ministers of the Church to be a happy man See Dr. Fern against Spencer C. de Purgatorio and to be verily admitted into the society of the Saints that have been from the beginning of the world Secondly in that the Bishop or Priest so praying is said by him to be the Interpreter or publisher of the Divine Judgements viz. in giving rewards according as men deserve And how that the Divine loving kindness in great goodness over-looks their infirmities or spots and stains of sin contracted by humane weakness Thus that prayer which begs the full forgiveness of his sins is doctrine to the living shewing and assuring them of Gods mercy to them that strive to live well notwithstanding through humane weakness they offend often and cannot be free from all spots and stains of sin Then in relation as it seems to the other part of the prayer which begg'd that he might be placed in light c. This Author adds The Bishop or Priest knows such good things are promised and therefore prayes that they may come to pass and be given to them that have lived well Also he knows that the good things promised will come to pass and therefore as the Interpreter of Gods Will he shews that they will surely be made good to them that so live and die and if these be the intents of this prayer surely they will not conclude a Purgatory Well then when he prayes for the pardon of his fin he refers to that second sentence of the day of Judgement that God would then proclaim him pardoned and then would receive him into heaven Ibid. c. 7. both as to body and soul And hence our Dionysius tels us that in these Solemnities the Church was wont to read the undoubted promises which were recorded touching the resurrection and then devoutly sang Psalms of the same Argument As you may see in Bishop Vsher page 205. Secondly as for that of Tertullian Sect. 7 where he bids the faithful wife pray for the soul of her husband begging for him refreshment and a part in the first resurrection Ter. de Mon c. 19. Dally will tell you First that he was infected with the errour of the Millenaries and thence it was that he required her to pray for a part in the first resurrection supposing some to be raised sooner and some later within that 1000. years Or secondly that this refreshment is begg'd at the day of Judgement or the Resurrection See Dall p. 513. 517. Digna co loco solatia refrigeria and that the Antients supposing those that were departed to be touch'd with a longing desire of being in Heaven they begg'd a refrigerium to them that is the enjoyment of such comforts as they were thought to have had while they lay in the bosome of Abraham expecting the Resurrection As touching the place of Saint Cyprian Sect. 8 Epist 66. the Answer lies hid in a word which he hath cheatingly conceal'd in his Translation for whereas * Ib. p. 116. p. 516. he hath Translated it that no Oblation shall be made for him viz. That names in his Will for an Executor an Ecclesiastical person The Latine hath it pre Dormitione ejus and as Dally answers his Bellarm. refers to the Eucharistical thanksgivings which they offered ob Dormitionem ejus that the faithful soul was delivered from the evils of the world which he confirms from the testimony of the Author of the Commentary on Job commonly ascribed to Origen And from Saint Ambrose who tells us Diem quo obierint sancti sc De Cor. Mil. c. 3. See Dally p. 516. colebri solennitate renovamus which is as far from Purgatory as Earth from Heaven And this is that which Tertullian saith Tradition was the Author and Custome the confirmer of The first Testimony which he borrows from Chrysostome tell us only this That according to the Apostles Institution Sect. 9 during the celebration of the Mysteries In Ep. ad Philip c. 1. Hom. 3. Commemoration was made of the dead Secondly That this was done that some comfort and refreshment might accrue to them thereby Now that the first comes not up to a shew of any proof for Purgatory is evident to any eye but blur'd with prejudice as appears from those many other ends for which the Fathers esteemed it useful as to bring and keep their souls in Abrahams bosome See Dally de Satisfac l 5. c. 12. to procure them a portion in the millenary reignhere on earth an augmentation of their Glory to procure the Resurrection of their bodles an abatement or exemption from the flames of the last day and the rigour of the last judgment And as for the second Hom. Cor. in c. 15. v. 46. S. Chrysost might well say that 't was not in vain to pray for sinners when he held that thereby the torments of the greatest sinners were or might be alleviated as appeares from his 21. Hom. on the Acts of the Apostles where speaking of a man who had not lived one day to himself but to Voluptuousness Intemperance Covetousness to sin and the Devil if he chance to die saith he shall we not mourn for him shall we not endeavour to pull him out of these dangers For there be waies if we will whereby his punishment may be made light for him If then we do continually make prayers for him if we bestow Almes though he be unworthy God will respect us And whereas he adds that it was the practice of the Church we grant it but the Church then practised it for the ends now specified not because she believed the Roman Purgatory For that Saint Chrysostome thought that the parties deceast if they had lived well were in a state of Joy and not of Grief appears by the funeral Ordinances of the Church related by him which were appointed to admonish the living of it Hom. 4. in Ep. ad Hebr. For tell me saith he What do the bright Lamps mean Do we not accompany them therewith as Champions what mean the Hymns Consider what thou dost sing at that time Return my Soul unto thy rest for the Lord hath dealt bountifully with thee And again I will fear no evil because thou art with me And again Thou art my refuge from the affliction that compasseth me
being conjoyn'd to his Brother He enjoyeth the pleasure of everlasting Life blessed are you both If my Oraisons can prevail any thing no day shall overslip you in silence no Oration shall pass you over unhonoured no night shall steal by wherein I will not bestow upon you some portion of my Prayers with all Oblations will I frequent you Onely the mischief is he doth not add till I find a Deliverance of you from Purgatory or any such words Indeed in his Oration on the death of the Emperour Theodosius he tells us that he will follow him to the Region of the living nor will he leave him till by his Prayers and tears he hath brought him into that place his deserts did challenge quò sua merita vocant viz. Into the Holy Mount of God where there was everlasting life where there was no Contagion of Corruption no sighings no grief no company of the dead doth he understand it of Souls then must none of the Souls of the dead be in heaven of bodies I hope our bodies must not go to purgatory with our souls But the Region of the Living where this mortall shall put on Immortality this Corruptible Incorruption But yet he presently tells us that Theodosius remains in light and glories in the companies of the Saints purgatory to be sure was a place that he had cause to glory of and enjoys rest for his soul they rest very quietly sleep in utramque aurem in purgatory Yea a little before he told us that he now enjoy'd Eternal Light I suppose as being enlightned by the fire of purgatory and continual tranquillity and for the things which he did in this body he rejoyceth in the fruits of Gods reward and was that think you purgatory and because he loved the Lord his God he hath obtain'd the society of the Saints But you will say If Saint Ambrose thought him in bliss or an happy State what is the meaning of his former words Ans You may see by what is said already that he cannot Intend to bring him out of purgatory by his prayers which is sufficient for me nor 2. Can he be supposed to weep for him till his mortal did put on immortality unless he thought he should live till the Resurrection or Theodosius rise before it Well then 3. Dally will tell you that 't is usuall in Scripture and Sacred Writers to speak of things as done which they were certain would come to pass So Isaac saith Gen. 27.37 I have made Jacob Esau's Lord and all his brethren his servants because he had foretold it would be so Even thus S. Ambrose saith he will never leave praying till the Emperours resurrection because he was sufficiently assured that God would raise him unto life Eternal and transser him to heaven Now then seeing 't is as clear as the Sun that Ambrose thought them both in Heaven or in Abrahams bosome viz. The Emperours Valentinian and Theodosius is it possible he should pray for their deliverance out of purgatory what good could they need besides that which he prays for a speedy resurrection who already enjoyed the pleasures of Eternal life If Eternal life be purgatory I will not give two pence for the Popes indulgences to be deliver'd from it This being so is not our Author a brave jugler who durst adde for deliverance to Saint Ambrose and that he might not be found out Cite neither place nor tell us of what Emperour whether Theodosius or Valentinian he meant it albeit he produceth the place only to prove that the Ancients thought the Souls departed to have some present refreshment which indeed they did allow to Saints supposed to be in Abrahams bosom And that from the company of Angels and Arch-angels and the vision of Christ which they were supposed to enjoy in those receptacles the increments of Divine light and joy which Ambrose speaks of He hath four places more out of Saint Austin in behalf of purgatory Sect. 14 Confes l. 9. c. 21 But the 1. where his mother begs that she may be remembred at the Altar falls strangely short of purgatory since I have made it appear that those who were suppos'd to be in Heaven were there remembred and this remembrance was made for divers other reasons Nor 2. Is there any thing in that which Saint Austine saith De cnra per mortem c. 5. we must by no means omit necessary supplications for the Souls of the Dead that repose might be obtained to them since 't is as clear as the Sun that they pray'd for repose to all the Servants of God departed and Saint Ambrose begs rest for the Emperour Theodosius of whom he tells us that he was in rest already Nor will the 3. place Cited out of his Enchiridion do him service viz. C. 110. That the Sacrifice is offer'd as a thanksgiving for Martyrs but as a propitiation for others For 1. It is evident that Saint Austine when he wrote this book was of Saint Chrysostoms opinion for as much as he tells us Eâ—ch c. 110. that these whom our suffrages do profit they do it either that they may have a full remission or a more tolerable damnation And then no wonder if he allowed the Sacrifice of the Eucharist or prayers to profit for the remission of sins 2. It might be offered for a propitation in respect of others and they not in purgatory but in Abrahams bosome as well as Saint Augustine might pray so earnestly for his mother that God would be propitious to her and yet she be in Abrahams bosom as above is manifested As to that 4. Instance which he calls convincing Ser. 32. de verbis Apost Note that this 32. Sect. is not to be found in the Index of Possidius the outmost that can be gathered from it is that in Saint Austin's and the Churches judgement it was not to be doubted that our Brethren were helped by these prayers so that God might deal with them more mercifully then their sins deserved and that prayers and offerings were made for them out of an intention of commending them to Gods mercy and what of all this For 1. Doth not the same Austine pray that God would deal more mercifully with his mother then her sins deserv'd did he not commend her to Gods mercy albeit he verily thought she was in Abrahams bosome 2. What is this more then what Saint Paul prays for Onesiphorus that he might find mercy in that day the day of Judgement and Saint Peter's speaking of sins to be blotted out at the day of our refreshment Well then they commended their brethren to Gods mercy as knowing that they deserved these punishments from which they could not be otherwise delivered then by the clemency and mercy of God which is very true and yet makes not at all for purgatory and indeed their prayers for pardon of sins was only thus that God would at the last day proclaim them pardon'd and would not cast them
Majesty as it were over the Lamb of God then lying upon the table their supplications and prayers for the whole State of Christs Church and all sorts and degrees therein thus the Authour of the Mystagogical Catechis Lib. 5. upon these propitiatory hosts we beseech God for the common peace of the Church the tranquillity of the world for Kings Souldiers Companions the afflicted in fine for all that stand in need of help Christ Sac. S. 3. See more of this in the Ingenious Master Mede and partly because it was such a commemoration of Christs sufferings as conveyed unto us an interest in what he hath suffered for us which therefore we are enabled to plead for our selves and others but that Saint Chrysost never esteemed it a proper Sacrament is apparent from these words of his 17. Hom. on the Heb. What do we not continually offer Yes saith he we offer but only by a commemoration of his Christs death there is but one host not many how so because it was offered once and that host viz. once offered was carried up into the holy of holies this that we celebrate is the figure of that former and that the truth of this And a little after he is our high Priest who offers that sacrifice which cleanseth us which we now offer and which then was offered 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 nor possibly can be consumed this is done in a remembrance of that which was then done according to that of Our Saviour do this in remembrance of me we do not offer another sacrifice as the Jewish Priests but continually the same or rather a remembrance of a sacrifice what can be more express then this And indeed our Authour saith the same thing S. 4. p. 146. his words are these Ordinarily the conception of a sacrifice is supposed to import an immolation shedding of blood and killing and no such matter appearing here but only a commemoration of a former reall immolation and shedding of Christs Blood therefore we Sectaries will not allow it the name of sacrifice Now not to note that if this be the ordinary conception of a sacrifice that then the Fathers must be granted in this matter to have spoken contrary to the ordinary sence which the word beareth and to that which it is supposed commonly to import 1 hence it is clear that he holds the celebration of the Eucharist to be only a commemoration of a sacrifice which we will endeavour to evince from his own words only premizing that Christs sacrifice was a reall immolation and shedding of his blood thus where there is only a commemoration of the reall immolation and shedding of Christs blood there is only the commemoration of Christs sacrifice offered on the Cross but here that is in the celebration of the Mass there is only a commemoration of a former reall immolation and shedding of Christs blood and therefore a commemoration only of his sacrifice S. 6. p. 148. nor is it any thing to the purpose which he adds that it is in the most proper rigorous sence an oblation of the very same body and blood that our Lord now offers in heaven For to let pass the question sufficiently handled already whether the very same body and blood which Christ offered on the Cross be present in the Sacrament or only the Symbols of it either he terms this a proper oblation because in the Sacrament somewhat is properly tendred or presented unto God and thus we all acknowledge a proper oblation in the Sacrament for there we shew forth the Lords death by presenting before him the sacrifice of atonement that Christ hath made commemorating the pains that he endured entreating God that we may all enjoy the purchase of his blood and reap the benefit of his passion reached forth unto us in the Symbol and that for the sake of the Bloody sacrifice of his Son in which by the faithful receiving of the elements we are interested he will turn away all his anger from us Or Secondly as this word is taken in a stricter sence to signifie a sacrifice of inanimate things as fruits incense c. and thus it is distinguished from a sacrifice of an animate being which was accompanied with an 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or an effusion of blood to which it is requisite Clopen Scb. Suc. ab initio if properly and strictly such ut vel incendio vel alio convenienti riâ—u sacro per sacerdotis ministerium destruatur that it be destroyed by fire or any other convenient Rite by the ministery of a Priest and if this be his sense of an oblation we deny that there is any such destruction or consumption of the reall body and blood of the Lord in the holy Sacrament and shall now consider it Fourthly Sect. 7 Therefore that this is no true and proper sacrifice appears 1. because to a proper sacrifice is requisite that the thing sacrificed suffer some Physical mutation but here is no Physical mutation of the thing sacrificed the Major is proved by Bell from the perpetuall use of Scripture when speaking of a proper sacrifice for what ever in Scripture is properly so call'd was necessarily to suffer such a mutation if it had life by the deprivation of it if it were an inanimate and solid being as Frankincense Salt c. by combustion if liquid as wine blood and water by effusion Levit. 1.2 Secondly He proves it because all the Sacraments did prefigure the death of Christ their death or mutation being Typical of his with Bellarmine consents Cardinal Alanus De Eucha sacrif l. 2. c. 3. who tells us that unless the intervention of some mutation be allowed to the nature of a sacrifice we must acknowledge that first-fruits Tythes the first-born religious persons and innumerable other things which in the Law were consecrated to God must be called sacrifices there being no difference in them from true and proper sacrifices imaginable but this that these gifts thus consecrated remain entire but the things which are sacrificed do not but suffer as it were a change into another species being either kill'd roasted bruised or boiled or by some other action of the Priest consumed But now there is no real mutation here of the thing sacrificed for the thing sacrificed is the very same body and blood which our Lord offered upon the Cross as our Author tells us P. 148. and p. 135. We acknowledge an oral manducation but without any suffering or change in the divine body it self and the victim saith he suffers nothing But should he eat his words as he doth his God I will thus force him to confesse the truth If the body of Christ suffer any mutation when sacrificed then either as to its real being in Heaven or its Sacramental but neither can with reason be affirmed Not the first for Christs natural body is now impassible not the second for then would the body of Christ lose its being in
are they not Earth and taken out of the Earth But as for me I have learned to tread upon the Earth not worship it So Saint Augustin saith they are worse then bruit beasts Lib. 7. Conr. Celsum and if you are asham'd to worship the one you may be asham'd to worship the other So Origen we do not venerate Images with many other like places In Consul lit de Imag. which made Cassander cry out How far the Ancients were ab omni veneratione from all veneration of Images one Origen declares Cruces saith Mintius Felix nec Colimus nec optamus and there we find it objected to them cur nulla nota simulachra habetis Hence Lactan. l. 2. c. 7. They think there is no Religion where these Images appear not not as if they had any kept secretly but as * Dallie puts it beyond dispute because the Heathens thought it impossble to worship God without some sensible Image Saint Cyprian Why dost thou bow thy captive body before foolish Images and terrene figments God hath made thee straight and when other animals are made prona ad terram depressa thou hast a countenance erect towards God and Heaven thither look thither direct thy eyes not to Images seek God above The 36. Canon of the Iliberine Council tells us its pleasure was there should be no Images in the Church * De Imag. Ep. ad Demetr Lib. 2. cap. 19. Lactantius tells us there can be no Religion where there is an Image Saint Ambrose will tell you the Church knoweth no vain Idea's and divers Figures of Images Yea Ambr. de sugâ secul c. 5. this was so notorious to the very Heathens that when Adrian commanded that Temples should be made in all places without Images they presently conceived they were for Christians Lamprid. in vit Alexandri Severi What should I say Orig. in Cels l. 2. p. 373. there is not any Father almost but is evidently against you Nay you can scarce find out any excuse which they have not prevented with their contradiction 1. You tell us that images are instruments to call to your memories the Objects they represent Orig. tells us If we be not out of our wits we must needs laugh at this folly who look on Images and by the sight thereof offer prayer to him who is conceived thereby In Ps 113. Saint Augustine will tell you this answer is borrowed from the Heathens who use to say I neither worship the very Image nor the Devil but by corporcal representation I look upon the sign of that which I ought to worship Dissert 38. And indeed Max. Tyr. hath taught you that these 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 They lead you by the hand to the remembrance of the things they represent That in procuring them you do like lovers who willingly behold the Images of those they love that so their memory may be stir'd up in them 2. Sect. 8 Your ninth Section tels us we help our selves by them to fix our thoughts upon Objects good for our souls and every where you insist upon the usefulness of them to Common people In Ps 113. But Saint Augustine saith they are very dangerous especially to them for who is it that adores or prayes beholding an Image and is not so affected as to think he is heard by it Epiphanius will warn them to avoid these helps Have this in your memories beloved Children not to bring Images into the Church nor into the Coemeteries of the Saints no not into any ordinary House but alwayes carry about the rememberance of God in your hearts Epiph. Ep. ad Joan. Hicros Tom. 1. oper Hier. Ep. 60. for it is not lawful for a Christian man to be carried about in suspence by his Eyes and the wandering of his mind He will tell you that the having them in the Church is contrary to our Religion to the authority of Scripture Give charge against it He is cited by the Fathers of the Council of Constant An. Dom. 754. Eus Hist. l. 7. C. 17. Ubi supra and tear such a one though it were the Image of our Lord and Saviour Amphilochius will adde we have no care to figure by colours the bodily Visages of the Saints in Tables because we have no need of such things but by virtue to imitate their conversations Eusebius will assert that you borrowed this Custome from the Heathens And surely Max. Tyrius lent you this pretence who tells you that the use of Images is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 quoniam tenuitatis Nostrae ita poscat ratio and 't is the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that was the cause of it You say that Humane nature cannot hinder it Sect. 11. They say that God and Religion forbid it And doth God forbid what humane nature cannot hinder and the Jews abhorred it had they razed out their natural principles You say that we call this Honour given to him worship sect 9 to make you odious Ans 2. Council of Nice by them General Sâ—e the places in Dally de Imag. Cat. Rom. par 1. C. 2.5.14 ut Colantur licet illis cultum adhibere In 3. par Th. quaest 24. Art 3. Orthodox Consul par 2. Reg. 1. In Ep. ad Rom. C. 1. In 3. Th. quaest 25. Art 3. disp 2. Nu. 5. Apud Cabr ib. p. 796. Hath not a General Council call'd it so an hundred times do not almost all your writers call it so Doth not your Trent Catech. require the priest to declare that the images of Christ are put in Churches that they may be Worshipped and that it is lawful to worship them and that it hath still been done to the great good of the faithfull Doth not Cajetan tell us that they are painted that they may be worshipped ut adorentur as the frequent use of the Church doth testifie And Boverius that this is the Doctrine of the Roman Church imagines piâ religione colendas esse will not Jacobus Naclantus tells you that albeit you speak warily in this matter yet the very truth is that the faithful in the Church do adore not only coram imagine sed imaginem Will not Friar Pedro de Cabrera teach you your lesson a little better that you must downright and absolutely say that images are to be worshipped in Churches and out of Churches and that the contrary is heretical And Franc. Victoria will back him in asserting it to be plainly so Yea and Arriaga for a close will tell you Haeretici negant non Exemplarium venerationem and what you plead for he does not think any Heretick so simple as to deny I might here adde half an hundred of your Authors who tell us that Images are to be worshipped with that very homage we afford to the exemplar but I let that pass for haply I may have another opportunity to acquaint you with them I shall conclude with the Roman
pontifical which tells us Cap 2. de bened Sanct. Crucis that the Pontifex in which name other Bishops are included ante imaginem crucis genua flectit eamque devotè adorat osculatur Magist Ceremon lib. 2. de feria 6. Majoris Heb. And feriâ sextâ or on good Friday when the Pope or Priest uncovereth Gently the Cross and crys ccce signum crucis and the singers answer venite adoremus that the Pope puts off his shoes or makes as if he did so genu ter flexo adorat osculatur and then all the rabble ad infimum caudatarium omnes crucem adorant osculantur So then you have no cause I hope to quarrel with us for saying you worship images when so many of your great Doctors that knew this practice of the Church as well as your self acknowledge that as a doctrine of faith which you so warily disclaim when General Councils yea and common practice can assure us of the truth thereof You ask us further Sect. 10. p. 158. whether indeed we think that you worship false gods and true devils Ans You may be idolatrous in worshipping the true God in an image as well as the Israelites in their worshipping God in a Calf 2. That you worship false Saints and Elilim De cultu Sanct. Ibid. see abundantly evidenced in the Sedan Divines 3. You ask whether we consider our Images as they did their Idols to which by magicall conjurations they annexed an evill Spirit to do wonders and extort Divine Worship from the seduced Ans What if some of the learned among the Heathens as Athenaeus confesseth Legat. pro Christ thought that the deity or some divine vitrue accompanyed the statute after consecration would it cease to be Idolatry if the Image of Jupiter were worshipped or any other Deity without these magical Inchantments 2. What shall we think of these images which you call miraculous which you say sometimes sweat blood sometimes nod their heads or stretch forth a wooden or stony arm unto their suppliants Vid. miss Rom. sub tit de ritu Serm. where you have as bad or worse in the Dedication of the Cross the Image of Saint John and the Agnus Dei. or of the form of Consecration Viz. Sanctifie O God this form of the blessed Virgin that it may bring saving health to thy faithful people that thundrings and lightnings may be driven away the sooner that immoderate rains or floods and civil wars may at the presence of this be suppressed Pont. Rom. 3. Might not the Jews have put the same question to those that accused them of idolatry in worshipping the brazen image 4. What matter is it whether the Heathens esteemed their Deity present or absent Quis nisi totus fatuus haec Deos esse credit seeing they acknowledge most evidently that they did not worship their images but their Gods by these images as you may see in Origen Contr. Cels l. 7. p. 384. Arnob. l. 6. advers Gentes Lact. l. 2. de divin Deos per simulachra veneramur Institut c. 2. we fear not the works of mens hands viz. these Images but those we fear to whom these are consecrated August in ps 96. I do not worship that stone or that image which is without sense but I adore what I see and serve him whom I do not see 5. 'T is evident that many of the Heathens thought their Gods to dwell in heaven Act. 14. and to be absent from their Statutes Hence the Lycaonians cry out upon the miracles wrought by Paul and Barnabas the Gods are come down amongst us See Price upon the place making out this by Heathen Authours and what said the Chaldeans to Nebuchadnezzar even that their Gods dwelt not with flesh Dan. 2. vers 11. what need I cite Max. Tyr. Plut. de Isid Osyr Cicero c. for a thing so clear Lastly you tell that us sect 11 there is not in Catholick countrys a Groom or Kitchin-maid so ignorant but had rather burn an image then afford it any honour due to God only Ans True But neither would these Heathens who thought them arrant fools who esteemed images to be God 2. Nor can we reasonably think that the Israelites intended any such thing in worshipping the Calf But 3. Tom. 1. de prob sp Num. 17. Gerson will tell you that people were so infected with Superstition as to yield divine honour to Images And Cornelius Agrippa that it is not to be spoken De vanit scient de Imag. fol. 73. how great Idolatry is foster'd among rude people by Image-worship while the Priests connive at these things and make no small gain thereby Cassander Consul de Imag. it is more manifest then that it can be denyed that the worship of Images and Idols hath too much prevailed and the Superstitious humour of people hath been so cherished that nothing hath been omitted among you either of the highest adoration or vanity of Panims in worshipping and adoring Images De invent l. 6. c. 13. And Polydor Virgil that there are many rude and stupid persons that repose more trust in Images then in Christ or the Saints to whom they were dedicated Lastly Simon Majolus a great stickler for Imagery Defens Imag. Con. 9. c. 19. confesseth that some rural persons esteem Images as if they were God You tell us Sect. Sect. 12 that it would be ridiculous to pray to an Image Ans To let pass your O crux Ave what can you say to Salve Sancta facies Nostri Redemptoris In quâ nitet species divini splendoris Impressa panniculo nivei candoris Salve vultus Domini Imago beata Nos deduc ad propria O felix figura Ad videndum faciem Christi quae est pura And again Brevar Rom. Reformatum in par Hyemali ad 3. Martii in festo inventionis Sanctae crucis O crux c. quae sola fuisti digna portare mundi talentum dulce lignum dulces claves dulcia ferens pondera salva proesentem catervam in tuis hodiè laudibus congregatam Lastly all your distinctions are used with you as miracles and the gift of tongues were not for them that believe but them that believe not For strangers and them that make objections not for the obedient that worship Images and break the Commandment Well Sect. 13 but you have Arguments as well as Pretences which must not be over-look'd Mr. C. p. 156. And First You tell us that in Scripture we find Kings adored and a prostration of body paid to them yet for all this no man will suspect that any dishonour was intended to God thereby Answer True and yet you may dishonour him by giving this worship unto Images seeing he hath commanded saying Thou shalt not bow down to them nor worship them which your Gerson paraphraseth thus In comp Theol. explic praecepti primi Thou shalt not bow down to
the most publick service should be in the most publick tongue but Latine is the most publick tongue in Europe But 1. This Sophisme will turn our Sermons into Latine which yet the Romanists notwithstanding their other impudent oppositions to the word of God have not asserted Secondly What reason can any mortall man imagine why the service of God should be celebrated in that Language which is most publick in Europe rather then in Asia Thirdly How blind were the primitive Churches which could not see so great a fitnes in this way of worship Cont. Cels l. 8. singuli precentur propria lingua Just novel 123 Ed. Haloandri for amongst them as Origen tells us every one prayed in his own tongue and Justinian commanded all Bishops and Presbyters to celebrate holy prayers and mysteries clara vernaculâ voce so that the vulgar might understand telling them out of the Apostle to what little putpose it was to do it otherwise and that they should not only be accountable for it at the day of judgement but punished by him also upon transgression of this command Fourthly We deny that the Latine tongue is the most publick in Europe or that there is any fitness that the Service of God should be celebrated in all Europe in that Language which is most publick And what if the Latine tongue be understood which yet is not always true by those that frequently recite the prayers Sect. 18 even as the unknown tongue which S. Paul so vehemently cryed down was understood by him that spake it what if that were a truth which you so crudely suggest p. 175. that a great part of the service was composed for the Clergies proper use when as the thing you are blamed for is that in the publick service which concerns the common people and according to the Apostles Doctrine ought to be done so as that they may understand it and be edified thereby is lock'd up by you in a tongue unknown Again why do you marry in the Latine tongue is that proper to your Clergy Your last evasion is Sect. 19. Ib. 6. that by this means viz. the keeping of your service in the Latine tongue your Doctrine is kept from being innovated whereas by the change of other Languages the Doctrine would lie under a danger of being changed Liturgyes preserved the same in the Latine tongue must ever and anon be altered and infinite expences be laid out in Printing them Ans Is not this a shrew'd sign of a sinking cause to lay hold upon such bul-rushes as these to catch at such vain and empty shadows what is it better that the poor people should want the bread of life the comfort and edification of the Churches service then buy a Common Prayer Book once in 20 or perhaps an 100 years Is there any danger of being undone by such a contribution of the parish that in an age will rob each family of a single peny should these infallible keepers of the truth of God fear the loss of their Religion upon the change of a word or 2. In the Chruches Liturgy what new Doctrine hath been broached by having our Liturgy in the vulgar tongue what great need have we had of new translations or what danger have we found by turning Paul the knave of Jesus Christ into the servant of Jesus Christ how did the Syriack Greek c. corrupt in the time of the Antient Fathers who yet did never complain of these inconveniences or think them sufficient to make use of the Latine tongue in their publick service these objections are so absurd as that nothing can make them more ridiculous For a close he tells us that Popes have granted p. 177. that the service of God should be celebrated in that maner which we contend for one of them having been induced to it by a miracle Sect. 20 A. And is it not wonderful that they should dare to contradict a miracle and when upon their consultation touching this matter God answered from heaven let every tongue confess unto me should say not so only the Latine tongue shall do it Farther he saith Sect. 21 that haply an indulgence may be granted Ans Very good but till then let them not blame us for not communicating with them seeing we continually proclaim that we are ready to communicate with them when ever we can procure a dispensation from these and the like enormities yea let them acknowledge that the Church of Rome hath erred by introducing this service into the Church hath contradicted the verdict of the infallible word of God which that it is the very truth we come now to demonstrate from that place of 1 Cor. 14. mistaken if we may believe him by the Doctor Now to pass over those arguments which with sufficient evidence may be drawn from the 11 first verses of this Chapter in the 12 vers Sect. 22 the Apostle thus exhorts these emulators of the gift of tongues that seeing they so importunately desired to abound in gifts they would do it to the edification of the Church endeavouring to excel in that which tends unto this noble end Now what was that the Apostle Ans The interpreting of tongues that the people may know 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the import of the voice wherefore seeing we ought with greatest vigor to pursue those things that make most for the edification of the Church he that speaketh with an unknown tongue let him pray that he may interpret where two things may be inquired 1. To what part of service that verse refers Ans Prayer As is evident from the reason given vers 14. Let him pray that he may interpret for if I pray in an unknown tongue c. Secondly Why must he pray that he may interpret Ans That the Church may receive edification vers 5. Yea this is farther evident from the series of the words vers 12. seek that you may excell to the edification of the Church wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret as also from the Apostles precept that all things should be done to edification and consequently prayer Now hence I argue That which is requisite that we may excell to the edification of the Church we ought to practise in our publick prayers for as much as the Apostle bids us seek to excell in this matter to the edification of the Church but praying in a tongue known to the people which joyn in service with us is requisite to this and this being the end of our praying that we may interpret therefore we ought to practise it Our Authour here tells us that the Trent Council observes the mind of the Apostle in that she hath commanded all Pastors during the Celebration of the Mass to expound some part of what is read An Answer worthy such a cause For 1. Was it ever heard before that expounding perhaps an Epistle or Gospel or something else which to be sure is not a