all know which secretly worketh to bring forth his own plant hâ—s seed his elect from the ends of the earth and from the bondage of corruption which the creatures groan under but the redemption and deliverance of the creatures is to be waited for that the glorious liberty may be witnessed which is free from corruption and this the daughters and sons of the living God is to waiâ— for abiding in the word of his grace there is nothing hid whicâ—â—hall not be made manifest nor nothing promised but shall be fulfilled to the seed in whom all the promises of God is Yea and Amen for ever Your dear brother in that which from the world is hid Richard Hubberthorn Prisoner in Norwich Castle Written the 19. day of the second Month 1655. Some Queries for you to answer who hold forth this testimony to the people That Christ is a Creaâ—ure against those that wâ—â—ness him to be the Son of God by which the World was made perfect God and Man not created but begotten according to the Scriptures 1. What knowledge of Christ that is without a man and how may a man do to lay his foundation thereon without having him revealed in spirit within seeing that was held forth by some of you 2. When was that Christ created which you say must as a Creature judge the World and if in Maries time who was judge of the World till then or did he judge the World as God till then and as a Creature ever since 3. Whether was not that Christ which you call a Creature sent out of Heaven from the Father and did he send a Creature to redeem the Creation and judge it 4. Is there any son of man as a Redeemer but he that came down from Heaven who filleth heaven and earth and was not he in heaven when he was in the flesh with his Disciples and do not the Saints partake of his flesh now upon earth 5. Whether all they which did see that body which to the world appeared in similitude of sinful flesh did see the shape and hear the voice of the Son of God or know the Man Christ Jesus 6. And if Christ was in that body which he appeared to the World before the World was as was asserted by Joshua Sprigge and he a creature as you say and the World made by a creature whether is not this to make the word of God of none effect 7. Was not the person of Christ Jesus before the World was his nature and glory the same that is now with the Father in heaven or in what is it changed and when had the man Christ Jesus his beginning if you can declare it 8 Did the Son of man take upon him the nature of the first Adam as he is in the fall when he took part of flesh and blood or do any know his nature who are in the fall and is not the flesh of Christ a mysterie to all mankinde till he be revealed in spirit 9 What that eating of the flesh of the Son of Man is seeing none can have eternal life in them but who eat it is the eating of it the eating of a creature and doth not all as they eat thereof become one flesh and spirit with him in his life and knowledge and if you have eat that flesh drunk that blood how is it you have the knowledge of God which is life eternal yet to seek seeing he that eats and drinks thereof can never thirst more but shall have the spring of life within or can the eating of that flesh which is of the nature of the first Adam give life eternal 10 How is Christ the only begotten Son of God if he be a creature or how can God beget a creature and if the whole person of Christ was not the before the earthly Adam how was the Creation made by him or how can he be of the nature of fallen Adam and not earthly and defiled or can God dwell in that nature but as it is purified and brought to the beginning seeing the fulness of the God-head dwelt bodily in him and is â—he flesh of Christ heavenly or earthly or is he Christ without his flesh 11 Whose obedience and righteousness and works is that which is not Christs and how is it that Christ makes any obedience or righteousness accepted with the Father which is not his own and of his own working this being one thing affirmed by you 12 How is it that a man can be in the spirit of God and in the spirit of Satan both at one instant and doth not the obeying the one deny the other and are not these the two Masters that no man can serve which you seem to affirm the contrary 13 Whether did God create man with any thing of the Devil in him and if not whether any can witness perfect redemption so long as the Devil hath any thing in them seeing some of you could not receive this testimony Now seeing we did answer many of your queries and you would answer none to us so now answer these things in writing that it may be manifest what testimony it is you bear of Christ Jesus for of our testimony of Christ Jesus we are not ashamed before men A lover of your souls and eternal good R. H. The innocency of the righteous seen of God cleared from all slanderous tongues and false accusers IN answer to a printed paper set forth by Frederick Woodall wherein he goes about to render the truth of God odious and by a cloak of maliciousness to cover those lies which he hath formerly published but in the light of God I do him see and comprehend and in it he is made manifest to all the children of light to be no Minister of Christ and to the light of Christ in all consciences I speak that in it they may read these things which from the light is declared that so occasion may be cut off from all who seek occasion against the truth that so peoples minds may not be incensed against the truth of God by his refuge of lyes set forth in his paper called Natural and Spiritual light distinguished But in the light of Christ which is but one which is not natural but spiritual is he seen to be natural and his distinction to be natural and so in the light the natural man with his natural doctrine and natural distinction is denied and Christ Jesus we do witness who is the true light which lighteth every one that cometh into the world Joh. 1.9 I am come a light into the world that whosoever believeth in me should not abide in darkness Joh. 12.46 and this is the condemnation of the world that light is come into the world and men loved darkness rather then light because their deeds were evil Joh. 3.19 20 21. Now all you who are enlightned by Christ Jesus and can read in the light and with understanding to you there is no occasion of stumbling but all
external stuff pours out which hath poisoned many people which thou sayest thou shouldest open the Gospel withall all that have the least convincement may see thee to be a seducer for what is external is natural and what is natural knows not the things of God but the Lord be praised thou hast declared thy self abroad Qu. 12. Whether any Ministers of God were made Ministers by the wil of man yea or no Shew it me by the Scripture Pr. And in thy answer to this Query thou sayest There is 〈◊〉 Minister of God made by the will of man onely but by man in subordination Rep. Here thou crossest the Scripture Paul an Apostle not of man nor by man And here the lying spirit hath shewed it self indeed Pr. And thou sayest There is no such hope of any such calling as was in the time of the Apostles Rep. And here thou hast cast thy self and thy fellowâ— and all thy study to be without the Doctrine and Life of the Apostles for thou concludest there is no such calling yet thou talkest of laying on hands there thou and you are making likenesses which is forbidden and to be confounded and so we conclude and all the children of Light shall judge that your Hope and your Calling and your Ministry made by the will of man and not only by God to be without God and conarary to the Apostles Qu. 13. Shew me by the Scripture whether a man shall grow up to that condition that he need no man to teach him but the Lord or no Pr. We must not look for any immediate extraordinary miraculous teaching by revelation from the Lord and yet all men are taught of God too Rep. What confused stuff is this and blasphemy that comes out of thy bottle Thou wouldest make God not an immediate doth not God teach immediate Here thou shewest that thou dost not know the living God for the teaching of God is immediate in the least degree Pr. None aims to such a perfection of knowledge in his gifts as not to need teaching Rep. Here I charge thee to be a Lyar who speaks contrary to the Scripture and here I charge thee in the presence of the living God to be a slanderer who speaks of being taught of the Lord Jesus Christ outwardly by the spirit what confused stuff is this and here again I charge thee to be a lyar for the words of our Lord Jesus Christ are spirit and life but such as thou who lookest upon the outward thing cannot receive his words though you have the letter of the Gospel as they had the letter of the Law Quest. 14. Whether they be not Antichrists and disobey Christ that have the chief places in the assembliâ—â— stand praying in the synagogues which Christ did forbid his disciples to act such things and cried wo against those that did act them In thy answer to this querie thou ramblest up and down with many words to justifie that which Christ cried wo against to justifie the chiefest place in the Assemblies and to be called of men Master and for standing praying in the Synagogues which Christ pronounced wo against and so let all the people see if thou and you be not such as are called of men Masters and stand praying in the Synagogues which the wo was and is upon Mat. 23. and there is neither shelter nor hole for thee to hide thy self for them that walk in the truth will find thee out and praised be the Lord God of heaven and earth who hath given us a spirit of discerning and we are able to judge you who live in deceit for the Apostle prophesied with the spirit of the Lord that such should come and we see with the same spirit you are come and with the same spirit you are judged Quest. 15. Whether they be not Antichrists and of the Devil and no Ministers of Christ which do not abide in the Doctrine of Christ Pr. They that swerve from the Doctrine of Christ are of the spirit of Antichrist Rep. There thou art this is thy own condition who deniest immediate revelation and thou that deniest immediate revelation deniest Christ for Paul said the Son was revealed in him and so all that thou speakest is with the lying spirit in the wicked generation and whereas thou slanderest and sayest we rail that is false And again thou speakest of love because the letter declares it but the love of God who dwells in it to such thou art an enemy and as touching using plainness of speech to people because we do not flatter or use enticing words of mens wisdom which thou dost so thou hast cleared thy self from the children of God and to be in the generation of them that swerve from the doctrine of Christ who seekest to justifie that which he cried wo against aâ— Mat. 23. And whereas thou accusest us for railing upon people thou art a liar for love useth plainness of speech and love and charity is out of deceit if we should flatter we should hold it up and should be pleading for thy generation who talks of God and confesses that you have not the same knowledge and understanding that the Apostles had Therefore how can you know God then And whereas thou speakest of trying the spirits the fruits of it is love here with the spirit of love is thy generation tried for when the servants of the Lord have been moved to come into your Synagogues some have been stockt and wounded and imprisoned and hailed out of your synagogues And is this the fruits of your spirit Qu. 16. Whether they be not seducers that draw people from the anointing which is in them and tell them they must be taught of a man whereas the anointing teaches them they need no man teach them but as the anointing teacheth them and the promise is to him that doth abide in it eternally Pr. Many false Prophets are gone forth Rep. Here thou hast proved thy self to be a false Prophet who denies immediate revelation for whom the Lord sent forth he spoke to them immediately which thou deniest and there thou art one of the false Prophets which thou speakest of and knows nothing of the anointing who deceives the simple and ignorant the world may wonder after such but who are in the light and receive any thing immediate will see thee in the dark to be a deceiver for none in thy generation can witness that you need no man teach you but the anointing for who doth are come out from your teaching and you both And as touching Sects them we deny as thou speakest in thy answer to the fifteenth Querie therefore do we see thee with that which is no Sect to be colouring and deluding people telling them thy error is truth who quotes and misappliest the Scripture to maintain thy falshood Pr. The flesh is quickned with the spirit of life to bring forth some kind of fleshly fruits 1 King 8.46 Joh. 14.4 Prov. 20.9 1 Joh. 1.8 10 Eccles. 7.22
of their bodies which now if people mind the Scripture there is no such doctrine in it as the Saints in Heaven have not received the Redemption of their bodies for they who had received the first fruits of the Spirit upon earth did wait for the adoption and for the redemption of the body till the creature it self be delivered into the glorious liberty of the sons of God Rom. 8. And this was witnessed and is witnessed and this is the Work of the Worlds Teachers instead of presenting them perfect in Christ Jesus as the Apostles did they would make people believe that the Saints in Heaven their bodies are unredeemed if so where is that redemption wrought And whereas I. S. vvould make people believe that there are none clean novv Christ said concerning those that follovved him Now are ye clean through the Word which I have spoken unto you John 15.3 And David saith that the Lord is good unto such as are of a clean heart Psal. 73.1 And the Lord said concerning his people that he would pour clean water upon them and they should be clean from all their filthiness Ezek. 36.25 and this Prophesie was to be fulfilled And the Lord said also by his Prophet Zephaniah That his Remnant should do no iniquity nor speak lyes neither should a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth Zeph. 3 1·3 And Paul preached Wisdom among them that were perfect and as many as were perfect should be so minded and Christ preached to the pure in heart that they should see God Matt. 5. Now if there were none perfect Christ preached unto such as there was not Now this is the chief ground of J. S. and the rest of the Enemies of truth and of perfection to declare against it because some fall from it as his instance of C. A. or others in the like To which I answer Their falling into that which is not perfect doth not make that which they fall from imperfect for the Angels that kept not their first state which was perfect did fall from that which was perfect A Virgin state is perfect but if any go out of that state and become foolish yet that which they depart from is perfect And if any do fall from the Truth and do not abide in Christs Doctrine that doth not make his Doctrine to be imperfect for Christ saith Except they abide in him who is perfect they cannot bring forth fruit Is not he that is in Christ perfect though some do not abide in him And is not the Truth Truth because some deny it Was not Christs Doctrine and the Apostles true because Demas did forsake it and love the present World And was not that part of the Ministry which Judas had committed unto him perfect And was not he the true Christ that Judas preached though afterwards he betrayed him Now if people do but truly consider all those that now do turn from the way of Truth which is now preached and lived in by us it may be an evident token to justifie us in the Way of Truth seeing what they go into when they go from the Light which Christ hath enlightened them withall which while they abide in it are kept out of all filthiness of flesh and spirit and so long they may speak of perfection and of the gift of God which is perfect But if any go from the Light then they are let at liberty to act all uncleanness with greediness and so are cast out from us and from perfection And if any such deny the Truth and forsake it yet there remains in them a witness for the truth and against their own uncleanness as in C. A. who from the Witness of God in him was made to confess that if he had continued in the Light of Christ he could not have so sinned against the Lord and so by his transgression fel from the way of Life and could not continue in Christs Doctrine any longer so such things may satisfie people concerning the way of Truth for while they are of us all such things is denyed by them but when they go out from us then they become Drunkards Swearers Prophane Adulterers Fornicators and so every evil Work is committed and then they turn to the Priests Doctrine there all such things are and are excused and then the Priests rejoice and give thanks if any turn from the Light of Christ and the obedience of the Gospel into drunkenness and prophaneness again where they were before and if they wil but swear and respect mens persons and use the rod of violence and persâ—cute and shed the blood of the innocent and be conformable to the World that is the Priests rejoicing and if any turn from the truth into any act of uncleanness then they take that as a proof against those that abide in the truth and such a thing is a better proof to them then all the Scripture and those are they that rejoice in iniquity and watch for evil and so they rejoice in that which we have cast out as abomination and these are they that plead for a life in sin while they are here and that say that the saints glorified in Heaven do yet hope for the resurrection of their bodies and so not come to the end of their hope though in Heaven when as the Saints upon earth witnessed the end of their hope the salvation of their souls Now these may wel deny perfection on earth who deny it in heaven which the Saints we and the Scriptures do witness it in both and against all such who are not fit to speak of the things of God Again in his ninth Head of contradiction he speaks of a warfare which yet himself never came unto and in it he wrests Pauls words and so would turn the truth into a lye saying as if Paul should say thus If sin that wars and sights in me hath no power to condemn me then there is no condemnation to me Which words Paul never spake and it is a lye in the ground for it is not sin that is the condemnation but the Light which lets men see their sins because men love darkness rather than light as many in this age have manifested themselves to do and the light shall be their condemnation who are not yet come to the War nor to the Victory which the Scripture speaks of Again in his tenth Head of contradictions speaking of repentance as if he would prove that we denyed or disclaimed godly sorrow and his proof is this If we disclaim in-dwelling sin in the godly we disclaim godly sorrow Let all people take notice of this If we deny in-dwelling sin we deny godly sorrow this is contradiction in the highest degree but against it this I shall affirm that none comes unto godly sorrow but they deny in dwelling sin and they that do not deny in-dwelling sin denies godly sorrow Again John Stelham in his eleventh Head of contradictions to the Scripture in his speaking of
Lord R. H. According as vve read in the Scriptures That the inspiration of the Almighty giveth understanding so by its inspiration is an understanding given us of the things of God Lord. Then one of the Lords said How do you know that you are led by the true Spirit R. H. This we know because the Spirit of truth it reproves the world of Sin and by it we were reproved of sin and also are led from sin unto righteousness and obedience of truth by which effects vve knovv it is the true Spirit for the spirit of the vvicked one doth not lead into such things King and Lords Then the King and his Lords said It was truth King Well of this you may be assured That you shall none of you suffer for your Opinions or Religion so long as you live peaceably and you have the Word of a King for it and I have also given forth a Declaration to the same purpose that none shall wrong you nor abuse you King How do you own Magistrates or Magistracy R. H. Thus vve do ovvn Magistrates Whosoever is set up by God whether King as Supream or any set in Authority by him who are for the punishment of evil doers and the praise of them that do well such we shall submit unto and assist in righteous and civil things both by body and Estate And if any Magistrates do that which is unrighteous we must declare against it only submit under it by a patient suffering and not rebel against any by insurrections plots and contrivances King Then the King said That is enough Lord. Then one of the Lords asked Why do you meet together seeing every â—ne of you have the Church in your selves R. H. According as it is written in the Scriptures the Church is in God Thes. 1.1 And they that feared the Lord did meet often together in the fear of the Lord and to us it is profitable and herein we are edified and strengthened in the life of truth King How did you first come to believe the Scriptures were truth R. H. I have believed the Scriptures from a child to be a Declaration of truth when I had but a literal knowledge natural education and tradition but now I know the Scriptures to be true by the manifestation and operation of the Spirit of God fulfilling them in me King In what manner do you méet and what is that order in your méetings R. H. We do meet in the same order as the people of God did waiting upon him and if any have a word of exhortation from the Lord he may speak it or if any have a word of reproof or admonition and as every one hath received the gift so they may minister one unto another and may be edified one by another whereby a grovvth into the knowledge of the truth is administred to one another One of the Lords Then you know not so much as you may know but there is a growth then to be admitted of R. H. Yes vve do grovv daily into the knovvledge of the truth in our exercise and obedience to it King Are any of your Friends gone to Rome R. H. Yes there is one in Prison in Rome King Why did you send him thither R. H. We did not send him thither but he found something upon his Spirit from the Lord whereby he was called to go to declare against Superstition and Idolatry vvhich is contrary to the Will of God Kings Friend said There were two of them at Rome but one was dead King Have any of your Friends been with the Great Turk R. H. Some of our Friends have been in that Countrey Other things were spoken concerning the liberty of the servants of the Lord which vvere called of him into his service that to them there vvas no limitation to Parishes or places but as the Lord did guide them in his Work and Service by his Spirit So the King promised that we should not any ways suffer for our Opinion or Religion and so in love passed away R. H. His Answer to John Horn. J. H. IN thy Answer to my Queries thou seemest to be resolved to say something although it be absolutely contrary to the truth and to that which thou knowest to be Truth as will appear in what follows In answer to my first thou sayest Christ in his Spirit ascended up to Heaven when his Body was upon Earth Is this an answer to the Question Is the mind or Spirit called the Son of man according to John 3.13 which came down from Heaven And no man doth ascend up to Heaven but the Son of man which was then in Heaven So by this thy Answer it appears then that the Spirit is the Son of man and that there is no other Son of man that ascends into Heaven but the Spirit then what becomes of that body thou speaks of if the Spirit only be that Son of man In thy Answer to the second and third Queries thou provest in thy way that Mary did that which was forbidden by Christ when she held him by the feet and worshipped him but in Mat. 28.9 there is no forbidding of her to touch him but this is plainly manifest that thou art in a snare and cannot tel how to get out and yet thou wilt be saying something though thereby thou more ensnares thy self but this Scripture thou wilt once know fulfilled The Wicked shall be silent in darkness When thou shouldst answer to the fourth thou tellest of its being a secret and of prying into things above what is vvritten although the ground of my Query is grounded upon that vvhich is vvritten in Luke 24.4 To the fifth thou saist That the Women did distinguish which was Christ vvas certain but hovv they did so is a foolish curious Question What certainty is there that they did knovv vvhen thou knovvest not hovv but this is like the rest of the Priests doctrine beating the air and leaving all people in uncertainties and yet would be paid for so doing but the Lord hath made thee manifest with the rest that you cannot deceive much longer To the sixth thou sayest the two Angels were seen visibly but were not Bodies nor Persons of men but in thy answer to the fourth saist that they both saw them as men and heard them speak and had two individual Forms Now if thou wert but simple and not wilfully blind thou mightest be the more excused In thy answer to the seventh thou art more lost and confused then in all the rest for when thou shouldst answer who were the eleven Disciples that were met together mentioned Luk 24.33 thou saist that Thomas might occasionally be gone out Ans. If he was gone out then the eleven was not together as Luke 24. Again thou saist that Matthias was chosen before the Evangelist wrote his Book What darkness and ignorance is this Thou art not questioned when the Book was written nor when Matthias was chosen but who was the eleven that was together
Jesus Christ that was called of men Master In thy answer to this Query thou bringest the Prophets and Priests under the Law called Fathers to oppose Christ's doctrine Thou wouldst compare Oxford and Cambridge to such as the Prophets and Apostles yet thou deniest immediate Revelation from Heaven And here thou hast cleared thy self and Oxford Cambridge from the life of the Prophets for they had immediate revelation And so thou bringest many names as Pastors and Shepherds and Ministers and Apostles and Evangelists to oppose Christ's Doctrine who saith Be not you called of men Master So let all see if they be not under the delusion who say Master is a civil honor and so opposeth Christ's Doctrine Here thou hast shewed thou dost not believe For how can you believe that receive honor one of another and shewest that thou lovest it as the Scribes and Pharisees did and would not part with it and art in thy pride and vain-glory as the Scribes and Pharisees were who say that is a civil honor and respect which Christ cryed wo against And herv thou hast brought thy self and all thy company under the wo and Oxford and Cambridge in the state which Christ pronounced wo against and thou art judged with the same life that gave forth the Scriptures Qu. 4. Shew me by the Scriptures where ever the Ministers of Christ took Tythes of the people or Augmentations In thy answer thou saist The Priests under the Law received Tyâ—hes Rep. There was a time that they received Tythes they might not neglect them as denying their Tythes to the first Priesthood There was a time after Christ when he was sacrificed up that he was preached the unchangeable Priesthood Heb. 7. then the Priesthood which received tythes was denyed therefore the wo is come upon thee and all thy generation who receive tythes according to the changeable Priesthood Here thou hast shewed thy self without judgement and rhe love of God and the wo is come upon thee and all thy generation who receive tythes and hold up the changeable Priesthood and so deny Christ come in the flesh They that preached the Gospel who lived on the Gospel denied the changeable Priesthood who received Tythes but for shame you Ministers of Oxford and Cambridge stop your mouths for they must be stopt do not you sue men at the Law and imprison men for Tythes And here you shew you do not preach the Gospel for it will not maintain you for them that preached the Gospel lived on the Gospel There thou thief art taken who hath gotten the Apostles words who art for judgement Qu. 5. Shew me by the Scriptures and what Scripture have you which speaks of the word Sacrament which you tell the people of and deceive the simple Pr. And in thy Answer to this Query thou art confused First thou sayest there is no Scripture for the word Sacrament and yet thou sayest Christ commands it and yet thou sayest there is not such a word in Scripture Rep. Here thou which addest to it hast brought thy self under the plagues and wo. And here let all who are in the Light see if thou art not a deceiver who deceives thy soul. I charge thee again that thou knowest not Christ for thou deniest immediate revelation so thou knowest not his commands nor dost not obey them for none know the Son but to whom he is revealed And here I charge thee to be a deceiver and a deluder of the soul from the Lord. This is in reply to the answer of the fifth Query Qu. 6. Shew me what Scripture you have which speaks that the Apostles sprinkled Infants Thou bringest the Scriptures as Christ saith Suffer little children to come unto me and forbid them not for of such is the Kingdom of God And this thou bringest to justifie sprinkling Infants for circumcision outwardly was a type of circumcision inwardly So thou hast not a word in the Scripture to maintain it but thou ramblest up and down and perverts many Scriptures in which there is not such a word for it And here I charge thee in the presence of the living God to be a lyar for Christ never commanded sprinkling Infants neither is it any Ordinance of Christ neither is there any example among the holy men of God that ever it was practised the plagues of God are added to thee Let all people see if there be any word for sprinkling Infants let the scriptures which thou bringest judg thee Luke 18.15 Jer. 15.6 Luk. 1.66.80 Act. 10.47 Here I charge thee with all these scriptures to be a lyar and they shall judge theâ— which thou hast brought for sprinkling of Infants let the Reader of thy Book examine the scriptures and find thee a Lyar and all thy dirty stuff which thou hast gathered from them is to be trodden under foot with the children of the Light who witness baptism and circumcision and new birth born again and all who are here do see thee to be blind deaf and a fool and there thou mayest read thy self Let all people see thee here who art without the life of the scripture who deniest immediate revelation from Heaven which the Apostles witnessed and the Prophets for without God thou art eternally I witness it Qu. 7. Shew me what Scripture you have to stand praying in the Synagogues before Sermon and after and whether the Apostles did so In thy answer to this query thou bringest the Apostles words which said pray alwayes to justifie standing praying in the Synagogues and having the chiefest place in the Assemblies which Christ cryed wo against And here I charge thee to be a false Prophet who puts no difference betwixt the Apostle and the Pharisees though he said the Temple which Solomon built him it was a house of prayer Christ said there should not be one stone of it left upon another when Christ Jesus was witnessed Stephen for witnessing him was stoned to death And here thou hast shewed thou hast no judgement and errs not knowing the Scripture And as for Christ's whipping them out of the Temple read thy self to the Light in thy Conscience I speak and so all thy praying before thy Sermon and after as thou callest it in the Synagogues in the chiefest place of the Assemblies the wo which Christ pronounced against thy Fathers hath light upon the son thou who art found in the same place let Matth. 23. judge thee the life which gave forth these words the life of these words is upon thee and so all thy prayers are abomination to the Lord God in the state thou art in and the praying of the Saints who were moved by the spirit thou hast cleared thy self from for thou deniest immediate Revelation from Heaven and how canst thou pray and not with the spirit And here let all people judge and see what thy prayers are if thou be not in the state of the Pharisees who deny immediate revelation and to be one that is blind
God to be a lyar for the word was in the beginning before any tongue was and your Hebrew and Greek is natural and the natural man knows not the things of God and the world by wisdom knows not God Pilate was a worldly man and he had this original and the wisdome of the world and there thou art and there the curse is upon thee so here thou preachest another original then the Apostles did they preached Christ the fountain and thou preachest Hebrew and Greek that is thy original and thy father Pilate had that original which crucified Christ and set it over him and the scripture came not by the will of man Therefore it is not the knowing of it by Hebrew and Greek but by the spirit that gave it forth therefore all people take warning and cease from such deceivers and take heed to the light in your conscience which is the light of Christ to guide your minds up to God the Father of light and be not deceived nor wander not up and down after such who know not the truth but put Hebrew and Greek for the original which Pilate had which crucified Christ Jesus as you may read in Luke 23. All people may see thou art brought no further yet then thy father Pilate so all thy prayers we deny for there is nothing of truth born up in thy understanding who art led with a seducing spirit into delusions who saist the spiriâ— of life stirs up the flesh to bring forth fruits and thou that art in the flesh canst not please God And there thy spirit is tryed to be the spirit of error And a great deal of such stuff thou hast in thy answers to the queries which is not worth mentioning And this thou hast written to publish thy self that them that have a love to Christ their hearts may be turned from thee to God to see how thou hast uttered forth thy solly though with many fair glosses thou and such as thou art deceive the simple But all who are in the light do see thee and comprehend thee Something in Reply to the Epistle thou wrotest to the Lady BINDLOSSE TO her thou speakest of the doctrine and spirit and the holy Ghost Here I charge thee to be a lyar who knows nothing of them who deniest immediate revelation for thou who deniest that deniest the Father and the Son as in Matth. 11.27 Wherein goest thou about to exhort others who art in the condition thy self but art as Martha that would be serving If she do but take heed to the light which Christ hath enlightened her withall she will quickly see thy folly for the light which Christ hath enlightened her withall shall be her condemnation if she hate it and if she love it it will guide her into the way of righteousness up to Christ And there O woman is thy teacher and his condemnation And the Work which is brought forth in the North doth tâ—rment thee R. Sherlock and such as the Lord doth move to exhort or to speak such thou slanderest and dost accuse as tempting for thy slanders and reproaches the wo wil turn upon thee from God who is the Justifier of his children and with such Priests as thou art the righteous seed was ever hated as you may read throught the Scriptures If she that thou callest a Lady be grounded upon thy doctrine be a member with thee of thy body let her read thy answers to the queries the replies to them to the light in her I speak which is of Christ which will witness me and let her see thee and if her mind be guided by it it will condemn all her former practises of worship and let her see thy delusions And again thou art flattering the Lady and tells her of a discourse of the Spirit and these are thy unsavoury words who art discoursing of the Spirit but deniest it for thou that deniest immediate Revelation denies the Spirit In the Corinthians the Apostle said things were revealed to him by the spirit and all thy doctrines to be denied and all that thou speakest and thou art seen to be one of the evil beasts and slow-bellies whose mouth must be stopt And what dost thou tell her of growing up in the knowledge of God and stop the way for her to pass who deniest immediate revelation which the Apostle exhorted to And the Saints were to have the loins of their minds girded up as in 1 Pet. 1.13 And what hast thou to do to talk of Heaven or happiness who art a Beast in thy colours And so this is the intent that I have written this Reply to the Epistle which thou wrote to her thou callest Lady that she might with the Light of Christ in her see thy folly for to that I speak which is the Light of Christ which if she hate it it will be her eternal condemnation Something in Reply to thy Introduction Pr. NO age hath brought forth more pretenders to the Spirit of God than this wherein we live Rep. Let all people take notice if thou be not he that pretends the Spirit who hath not the same understanding and knowledge that the Apostles had and there thou art in the pretence who art blind and thy worship as thou callest it is thou dost not know what worse than it was at Samaria who art in the pride of heart And as thou sayest the Devil hath sown his crop and reapt his harvest and there thou art one of his servants sowing his seed and amongst the delusions as thou calst them for that is in thy generation which comes out of thy own bottle which now flows out what is within issues forth this is thy own condition who seducest the people The fire is kindling and the tares are burning which makes you wicked ones to cry out And so all Impostors and Blasphemers are in thy generation and you are ignorantly worshipping and your gross Idolatry which thou speakest of is your own and thou art a Murderer and understandest not what thou speakest of them and God thou knowest not who deniest immediate revelation from Heaven but onely what thou knowest thou knowest naturally as a bruit Beast which Jude speaks of And a great deal of stuff thou hast in this Introduction which is not worth mentioning If the Reader doth but read with a single eye he may see all thy confused stuff which is not worth naming And a great deal of stuff thou hast written in discourse of the Spirit and the Holy Ghost which thou knowest not what thou speakest of and of the Trinity which there is no Scripture for A Reply to an Epistle that thou wrotest to him whom thou callest Sir Robert Bindlosse THe Queries being sent to his house from Rich. Hubberthorn being his desire that they should be made publike and we do praise the Lord that deceit is brought to light And thou saist Perhaps some satisfaction might be given to those seduced wavering souls amongst you Truly I do
thou deniest that deniest immediate Revelation from heaven And here I charge thee in the presence of the living God to be a lyar and false Prophet and that thou art guided by the Father of lies Where thou tells of Elisha's Colledge and saist that it was so full that it was enlarged and bringest in that place of Scripture to colour over thy lyes 2 King 6.1 Let that Scripture be a witness against thee that thou artâ— lyar and a perverter of the Scriptures thou full of all subtilties blush for shame thou lyar is there any mention of any Colledge there Or is there any mention of the Schools of the Prophets where the Word of God was studied in those places of Scripture before-mentioned as thou sayest Let them witness against thee All the Prophets were taught of God and there was no studying for what they spoke at Naioth see if they did not receive the Spirit of Prophesie and spoke by immediate Revelation which thou denies knows not their manner of teaching and learning 1 Sam. 19 20. to the end of the chap. And the Prophesie came not in the old time by the will of man but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the holy Ghost and the Scâ—ipture is of no private interpretation 2 Pet. 1.20 21. Here art thou proved a lyar and a perverter of the Scripture wresting it to thy own destruction 2 Pet. 3.16 Now call not Truth railing thou dissembler and enemy of all righteousness the Scripture turns edge against thee and witnesses against thy deceit and filthiness whereby thou seeks to strangle the truth but thou art found out to be among the dogs sorcerers and lyars spoken of in Scripture and art shut out of the Kingdom of God and art no Minister of Christ Rev. 22.15 18 19. Thou Enemy of God how darest thou say that the Prophets studied the Word when no prophesie came by the will of man but by the will of God and no man knoweth the Father but the Son neither knoweth any man the Son but the Father and he to whom is revealed Maâ—th 11.27 And here thou deniest both the Father and the Son and the Prophets and Apostles that deniest immediate revelation for they all bear witness against thee and such as thou art for the Apostle said Hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ And all the true Prophets witness that which thou deniest And here I have proved thee a lyar a false prophet and a deceiver perverting the Scriptures and they bear witness with me And thou full of all guile and deceit the word of the Lord shall rise up in judgement against thee and such as thou art Something in reply to thy Discourse of the Spirit as thou callest it FRiend the Spirit of the living God thou hast not for thou deniest immediate Revelation from Heaven who art discoursing of the Spirit and here thou art made manifest but to be in the pretence of the spirit and knows nothing that is revealed with the spirit For thou that deniest immediate revelation from Heaven deniest the spirit of the living God The Apostle saith Eye hath not seen ear hath not heard neither hath it entered into the heart of man the things that God hath prepared for them that love him but God hath revealed them to us by his Spirit 1 Cor. 2 9 10. And here thou hast denied immediate revelation from Heaven hast denied the spirit of God and manifested thy self to be in the natural state Therefore I command thee and charge thee in the presence of the living God to be silent and to give over receiving of the people 2. Thou that denies immediate revelation from Heaven thou denies the grace that was to be brought unto the Saints whose minds were to be girded up which grace was to be brought unto them at the revelation of Jesus Chrisr And thiâ— thou hast denied again as all people may see 1 Pet. 1.13 and here thou hast denyed Jesus Christ and his grace who deniest immediate revelation and art in the fashion of the world and a blasphemer 3. Thou that hast denied immediate revelation from heaven hast denied the Spirit to pray withal and so all thy prayers are hyyocrisie 4. Thou that hast denied immediate revelation from heaven hast denied the Son of God For none knows the Father but the Son and he to whom the Son reveals him Mat. 11.27 5 And thou that hast denied immediate and miraculous revelation from Heaven hast not denied the Son of God onely but the Father also And thou that haâ—t not the Son of God hast not life Pr. The power is originally from God as the Fountain but conveyed through the Ministry of man as the conduit p. 90. Rep. Paul an Apostle not of man nor by man but by the will of God And here thou art proved to be a seducet and thy Ministry contrary to his here thy spirit is tryed And thou slanders them who hear the voice of God and art scorning them and in a deriding way calls it a deceitful eccho but we know that God scorns the scornful and hath them in derision Pr. For any man to pretend immediate calling from God without the Ministry of man is a new Gospel distinct from Christ and his Apostles and such can be no other then ths dictates of seducing spirits and doctrine of devils p. 9. Rep. Here I take all the children of Light to record to prove and try thy Spirit and Gospel to be of man and whether thy Ministry and Gospel which thou preachest which is of man be of God For Paul said that Gospel which he preached was not of man And here again thou art contrary to the Apostle and thy spirit is tryed to be a seducing spirit and thy Doctrine to be of the Devil who deniest immediate revelation Pr. For thou sayest That which is immediately from God and without the Ministry of man is the doctrine of the Devil and of the seducing spirits Rep. Paul said the Gospel that he preached he received it not of man but by the revelation of Jesus Christ and here thou art contrary to the Apostle and thy self in the state thou speaks of And Paul an Apostle not of man nor by man but by God the Father Thou impudent enemy of God and blasphemer wilt thou say his doctrine was of the Devil who denied man as Gal. 1.1 who said Paul an Apostle not of man nor by man Pr. Therefore there is no need of any such qualifications for the best of us dare not stand to such sublime and eminent gifts of the spirit or to any immediate and extraordinary spiritual gifts p. 93 94. Rep. Here thou preachest up that which is not qualified for we do believe you that you dare not stand to such eminent gifts of the spirit for we have tryed you and know your spirits how can you have the same gifts who deny the
own which purifies our consciences from dead Works and keeps our minds undefiled by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost Tit. 3 5. The third accusation is That we deny the Sacrament which is an Ordinance of Christ. Ans. For the word Sacrament there is no such Scripture which speaks of a Sacrament therefore we do deny you and your Sacrament and your Bread and Wine which is carnal and feedâ— the carnal which must die and your communion is in that which is carnal in the creatures and Drunkards and Swearers have fellowship together with you in those things and all lyars covetous ones prophane and idolatrous ones eats of the bread and drinks of the cup and sits at the Table which is the Table of Devils And this is your Sacrament which stands without in carnal bread and wine and feeds the carnal which oppresseth and murders the Seed of God within you and you say Christ hath left that as an Ordinance for you to practice which is false which we deny but the Supper of the Lord we own The Cup of blessing which we bless is it not the communion of the blood of Christ And the bread which we break is it not the communion of the body of Christ for we being many are one bread for we are all partakers of that one bread 1 Cor. 10.16 17 21 22. And this is the bread which came down from Heaven he that eateth thereof shall never dye And this Bread we all eat of and this cup we all drink of and this is that which is practised and commanded in the Church of Christ and so we sit at the Table of Christ and cannot sit nor have fellowship with the Table of Devils And they who sit at your Table and your Sacrament and eat of your Bread and drink of your Wine they dye for it is not the bread of life and you who eat and drink it do not discern the Lord's body for it is spiritual and your Sacrament is carnal and so you eat and drink damnation to your selves not discerning the Lords body feeding the carnal with the carnal and so we deny your Sacrament to be any Ordinance of Christ or the Supper of Christ 1 Cor. 11.29 The fourth Accusation is That we deny the resurrection of the Body Ans. And that is false for at the sound of the last Trumpet the dead shall be raised they that have done good shall arise to the resurrection of life they that have done evil to the resurrection of condemnation And we preach Christ risen from the dead and if the dead rise not then is our preaching vain and your faith is also in vain and you are yet in your sins who know not this resurrection Christ risen from the dead in you 1 Cor. 15.14 15 16 17. But some man will say How are the dead raised and with what bodies do they come 1. Cor. 15.35 Thou fool that which thou sowest thou sowest not that body that shall be but bare grain it may chance of wheat or of some other grain but God giveth it a body as it pleaseth him and to every seed his own body There is also celestial bodies and bodies terrestrial and the glory of the celestial is one and the glory of the terrestrial is another there is one glory of the Sun another glory of the Moon and another glory of the Stars for one star differs from another star in glory So also is the resurrection of the dead it is sown in corruption it is raised in incorruption it is sown in dishonor it is raised in glory it is sown in weakness it is raised in power it is sown a natural body it is raised a spiritual body 1 Cor. 15.35.36 37 38. Now this I say unto you all That flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of Gâ—d neither doth corruption inherit incorruption 1 Cor. 15.50 51 52. But this is to you all a mystery who are in the first nature whose understandings are not enlightned by the light of Christ who live in your forms notions and professions of these things in the Letter feeding your carnal minds with the Letter which is death and killeth and so your minds are drawn from the Light of Christ within you into outward observances of meats and drinks bread and wine divers washings carnal Ordinances which were figures of the time then present Heb. 9.9 10. and you deny Jesus Christ the Substance who is the true Light that enlighteneth every one that cometh into the World Now to the Light in you all I speak which Christ Jesus hath enlightened you withall and if you love this Light it will lead you out of all your carnal Ordinances and Worships and divers Washings which stand in the first covenant which was before Christ and is done away in Christ the second covenant and it will lead you to worship God in the spirit and into the doctrine of Christ to yea and nay in all your communications But all who are got up high in forms and profession you are not yet come to yea and nay but are out of the doctrine of Christ and walk contrary to the Light of Christ in your consciences which Light shall be your condemnation that hate it John 3.19 20. though you be got up high in your forms and notions and words of the Saints conditions who spoke in the light and from the life And you who have the form but not the life shall be condemned by the life and you who hate the light shall be condemned with the light and life which gave forth the Scriptures The fifth Accusation is That we do not honor Magistrates nor are subject unto Authority but are disturbers and breakers of the peace Ans. Justice we own and righteousness and all who love the Light of Christ which he hath enlightened them withall it will lead them to act Justice And all Magistrates I charge you in the presence of the living God to act according to that which is pure of God in the conscience And all Magistrates who act according to that of God in the conscience are honored by those who fear the Lord and walk in obedience to that in the conscience and those who act justice according to that in the conscience they do not bear the sword in vain for that in the conscience is according to the law of God and all you Magistrates who are set over the people to do Justice and execute the lavv upon offendors this is the Word of the Lord to you To mind the Light of Christ in your consciences and it vvill cause you to act according to the place of a Magistrate But if you suffer Svvearers and Drunkards or Lyars or Oppressors or false Weights or Strikers or Quarrellers or Fighters and do not punish them or Whoremongers or Idolaters or idle persons vvithout a calling thou that passeth by these things dost not act justice according to the lavv then thou acts not
they would not come unto him that they might have Life Joh. 5.40 and not because his light in them was not sufficient for these Jewes did for a season rejoyce in the Light which if they had continued in would have led them to the knowledge of the Father and of the Son as those of understanding sees in those Scriptures which thou hast asserted and so thus in all thy Arguments to manifest thy Ignorance of the Scripture and of the Light instead of charging mens guilt of disobedience thou charges the light of Christ to be insufficient for they that did love and receive the light which Christ had enlightned them withall to them it was given to know the Mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven but to those which did hate reject and count it insufficient those things from them was hid and their rejection was the cause of hiding those things and not the light and this may answer the most of thy Arguments and let thee see how thou stumbles because thou hates the light which should discover unto thee both the cause of knowledge and of ignorance and the ground from whence they both arise In many other of thy Arguments thou proves nothing thou intendest but accusing falsly the Quakers as in the 15 16 17.21 22. Arguments where thou saist That they forbid People to seaâ—â—h the Scriptures in those words page 48. Christ saith Search the Sâ—riptures Quakers say no but look to the light within you and that their opinion makes a supposed light within each man a safe rule and guide to each man and is erronious Thirdly That the opinion and praâ—â—ice of the Quakers are evil in making every man a Teacher and makes neealess the Teachers set by God for the work of the Ministry Fourthly That their Opinion is impious and that they make it uâ—necessary to pray for the Spirit to enlighten mens Eyes iâ— the knowledge of God Fifthly That their Opinion is pernicious which makes man to lean to his own understanding be wise in his own Eyes and in his own conceit and that they bless men in following their own light Sixthly That the Quakers place all their Godliness in following their own supposed Light Ans. The ground of all those Arguments is false and every particular thing herein charged against the Quakers is false for they have not denyed thaâ— men should search the Scriptures neither hath their Opinion and practice made every man a Teacher Neither is it their Opinion that it is unnecessary to pray for the Spirit to enlighten mens eyes in the knowledge of God but do pray for it and for our Enemies so far that their eyes may be enlightned that they might see their own darkness and then they would not so falsly accuse uâ— of things that we never affirmed but was always contrary to and we never made any man to lean to his own understanding but do turn men to Christs light which lets them see their own understandings which is false and bringâ— them to the true understanding of Him whom the Father hath sent into the World which brings them from being wise in their own eyes and in their own conceit neither do we blesse men in following of their own light but we say they are bleswd who follow the light of Christ and walk as he walked and see never did place any Godlinesse in following our own supposed light but in Christ who hath really enlightened us do we place all Godlinesse and all are ungodly that do not walk in his Light but hate and despise it and falsly accuse those that walk in it but well may they accuse us to be erroneous and impious for walking in the Light vvhen they have accused the light it selfe to be but lust and imagination but in this they know not what they do and therefore we pray to God to forgive them And whereas again we are chargâ—d Page 47. to make the coming of Christ into the World to be needlesse and uselesse by saying that he hath enlightneth every man that commeth into the World that charge is contrary to the Truth for in this we make hâ—m usefull and needful to all people Christ was as a Light in the World and as a Teacher to the Saints of Old and to Moses who bore his reproach and to the Prophets which prophesied of him before that in the fulnesse of time he appeared in the similitude of sinfull flesh of which appearance the Apostles were witnesses and so to preach him as a Covenant to the Jews and as a light to the Gentiles before he so came into the World was not an Error much less now when he is come and hath so appeared for us to say that he is the true Light which hath enlightened every man that cometh into the World that every man thtough him might beleeve is not an error but is the way to Salvation And whereas several other Arguments is made upon false grounds as that the supposed light in a man may lead him into a way whose end is death this only belongs to thy selfe thou art guilty of it for the true Light would have led thee to have spoken Truth and to have accused no man falsly and would not have suffered thee to have opposed by plain contradiction Christs Words nor to have perverted the Scriptures in making them a ground for thy false Arguments and so that Argument against thy selfe stands and that thy supposed light leads into a way whose end is Death Again thou saist in some of thy Arguments If every man have a light sufficient to guide him then there needs no transforming nor renewing nor putting off the Old Man nor should be no foolishness nor need of a Rod of correction nor need any train up a Child in the way he should go nor need not learne Childrens Literature or good manners and other things of the like Nature Ans. This is as if thou shouldst say that Christ is come into thâ— World to Teach to Redeem to Renew and to Restore and to Reâ—orm and to do all these works in them and for them but they need not believe nor obey nor Worship nor put off the old Man nor Pray nor Preach nor Learn because he is sufficient as to all those things but this we say though Christ and His Light be sufficient to lead men to the Father and that though thiâ— Light do shine in the darknesse and convince man of his evil deeds yet his mind must be turned unto it to obey and follow it which is that only which leads to the Father but though Christ become a Light into the World and be sufficient and a safe guide yet none comes to the Father by Him but those that believe follow and obey his Light and do put off the Old Man with his deeds and be renewed in the inward of their minds and do deny conformity to the World and do hear him in all things and learn of him so this our Doctrine shall
which did not abide in the Truth he is separated and distinguished from the Father eternally but so is not the eternal Son of God for he is in him John 17.11 John 17.21 22. And again I say False Prophets and Hirelings are from the beginning and from Eternity distinguished from the Father and the Son but so is not the Spirit of Truth So I leave it to that of God in all people that with it they may see and know which to believe for Christ saith I and my Father are one and he is not Christ without God Therefore that damnable doctrine is denied which saith That Christ the Eternal Son of God is distinguished from the Father eternally For few in this Nation are so blind besides Priest Clapham as either to affirm or believe such a thing or that there is three Subsistences and but one being Is not a Subsistence a Being Therefore if any other of the Priesthood in Norfolk have joined with Clapham in his Book or do own him in these things cover your faces together and be ashamed that your impudency and blindnesse do not lead you any more to blaspheme Again Clapham saith concerning the soul in pag. 21 That the soul came indeed from God but was not of the Being of God and that the soul is humane And when I asked him Whether the soul was not immortal He said Yea Humane and Immortal were both one To this I answer Ans. Wo is unto that people whose Leader is a fool blind and ignorant of God of the Son of God and of the soul of man of the Scriptures what they speak concerning these things Now if humane and immortal be both one then every man that is come into the World hath a humane body then the bodies of all men that are come into the World are immortal as well as the soul. But for your sakes who are led by such I say The first Adam was made a living soul the second Adam was made a quickening spirit 1 Cor 15.45 And you all have a Light from the second Adam with it to see what the soul is which was made living and how again by Christ the quickening Spirit it comes to be restored into the same Life and with the Light of Christ you will see the soul and see the Life which from Christ is manifest to quicken it up to the living God and so then you will know the Scriptures and the power of God and that the Scriptures speak not of a humane soul. Now the Ministers of Christ which are sent to turn people from darkness to lâ—ght and from the power of a Satan unto God they are to watch over the souls of those who are turned to the Light therefore you all in the Light wait to knovv the soul and know the power of God which raiseth it up out of the death and then you will be wiser than your Teachers as David was and then you wil not come short of the promises which the Father hath promised even the sure mercies of David So in the Light all who wait upon God come to the knowledge of the Son of God and of the Soul which is to be watched over and then you come to that which is sure even to the knowledge as David did over all your Teachers and so you wil come to know the key of David which will open unto you that which is sealed up from your Teachers and so come to know the one shepherd and the one sheepfold and the green pastures as David fed in and then you wil not need the Priests meanings being wiser then they you having the key of knowledg which they and the Lawyers have lost as Christ hath said Matth. 23 13. shutting up the Kingdom of Heaven against men and from men now as the Pharisees did then so that you need not say there were such then but where are there now any such I shall shew you one as John Clapham in the 37. page of his Book saith That Heaven is not to be enjoyed vvhile vve be in the flesh here Novv see vvhether he hath not shut it up from all men vvhile they are here But Christ vvho vvas annointed of the Father to preach the Gospel to the poor said not so for he said unto his Disciples Blessed are ye poor in spirit for yours is the Kingdom of Heaven Luke 6.20 Mat. 5 3. it was theirs and they did enjoy it neither did Christ shut it from the Pharises but said unto them The Kingdom of Heaven is within you Luke 17.21 And if they had believed his words they might have enjoyed and been Heirs of it as the believers were And the Ministers of Christ were to preach as they went saying The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand and so they were not to shut it up from men as the Hypocrites did and false Teachers which say It cannot be enjoyed while men are here And here it appears that they shut up the Kingdom against men and neither enter in themselves nor suffer others Matth. 23.13 for if they entered in themselves then they could not deny but that it might be enjoyed And here is the Scripture fulfilled Matt. 13.19 they shut up the Kingdom of Heaven against men saying None can enjoy it here but Heaven is God's Throne and the Kingdom of Heaven is within you and so here as God hath said I will dwell in them and walk in them and they shall be my people and I will be their God And the Seed of the Kingdom was sown and was reaped amongst the Churches and it was in them that would not enter in it themselves nor suffer others as a grain of Mustard-seed and in others it was as Leaven hid in three measures of Meal And so the Kingdom was preached and the Gospel in every creature and there were parables of the Kingdom and the World had it in the Parables in them but they that did believe had it in them in the power in the power out of the parable He that hath an ear let him hear what the power speaks then shall be witnessed that vvhich is written both of the Povver and of the Kingdom Again the said Clapham hath charged God and Christ falsly in his Book as that Christ dwells in his people tvvo vvays first by his special spiritual presence Secondly By mystical union and that is more than the former bringing this comparison That one may dwell in a House and have no union with it and saith That God dvvells in the Heavens but hath no union vvith them and that the union betvven God and believers cannot be comprehended by the Saints here as in the 24 â—h page of his Book Ans. Now let all take notice and with the measure that God hath given you to judge whether Christ can dwell in his people by his special presence and have no unity with them as he hath affirmed And again judge wheâ—her a mystical union be more then his special presence as
Except ye eat my flesh and drink my blood ye have no life in you And this is his Supper in eating of which the creature hath life in himself Therefore fly from idolatry I speak unto wise men judge what I say the cup of blessing which we bless is the Communion of the blood of Christ and the bread which we break is the Communion of the body of Christ For we being many are one bread and one body for we are all partakers of that one bread 1 Cor. 10.14 15 16 17. For the bread of God is he that came down from Heaven and giveth life unto the World John 6.33 Then said they unto him Lord evermore give us this bread and Jesus said unto them I am the bread of life he that cometh to me shall never hunger and he that believeth on me shall never thirst John 6.34 35. I am the living bread which came down from heaven if any man eat of this bread he shall live for ever and the bread that I will give is my flesh which I will give for the life of the world v. 51. But the Jews could not belive this neither can this Priest but saith we own feâ—ding on Christs flesh but deny his Supper and so as blind as they But by the life which we receive in eating of his flesh and drinking of his bloud are we manifest to be of those that feed at his Table and cannot have communion at the Table of Devils as the Church of God could not 1 Cor. 10.21 Again He saith that we own baptism with the spirit but deny baptism with water I answer Who come to the baptism with the spirit into one body they are come to the one baptism which the Saints witnessed not laying again the doctrine of baptism which waâ— several but witnessing the one the substance of the other which was necessary to salvation so all those things in which the substance was signified whether circumcision or water is not denied in their time and place when the obedience in them was from the command of the spirit and not from tradition but people now in the ignorance of God and his ways take up things by tradition being both out of the command and out of the substance and such deny the substance where it is witnessed as for this Priest Clapham he hath never ministred water baptism as it was ministred when it was a doctrine from heaven for there is not one in all his Congregation that had first received the holy Ghost nor believed in Christ before he baptised them with water and so both the substance and the figure is denied in him so that in that in which he would accuse another without ground is he upon good ground found guilty And as for denying to give thanks that is false for we are bound in spirit to give thanks always to the Father who hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the Saints in light and whether we eat or eat not we give God thanks and this we are come to witness to pray without ceasing and in all things give thanks for so is the will of God concerning us and in us is it fulfilled and we sing with the Spirit and with understanding also but such take Davids conditions which waâ— made manifest unto him in the sure mercies of the Lord to him and sing his deliverances whose soul is yet in the pit and sing his prophesies who never knew the spirit of prophesie in themselves and say they have roared all the day long by reason of their sins when as they have roared all the day long in fulfilling their sins and iniquities and for the scorners to say they have no scornful eye and for the proud to say they are not puft in mind such singing we deny which is without the Spirit and without understanding also For light is sown for the righteous and joy for the upright in heart so to the light with which Christ hath enlightned every one that cometh into the world I speak which tends to uprightness of heart and unto holiness without which no man can see the Lord those things which are reprovable are made manifest in the Liâ—ht and that which doth make manifâ—st is light which all who be out of it is in darkness and know not whether they go nor what they profit as many now in these days being kept from the light and gate of truth by the doctrines of men and so never come to read in the Lambs book of life which first all must come to know the vials poured forth upon the earth upon the Beast and his works and his sear which is found standing in all them who be from the light they be enlightned withal But the hour is coming and now is when all they that be upon the face of the earth may see the appearance of the Son of God and may receive his power in the measure which his Father hath given them to receive him in therefore every one who comes to see with the light of the Son of God enter into thaâ— which you see to be of him and out of that which you see to be of the World that so the everlasting righteousness and peace you may possess in your obedience to what is made manifest that you may come to see and favour the things of God from those things that be of the World and as every one walks in the light you will be as a sweet smelling sacrâ—fice unto the Lord and knowing and feeling the power of â—he Lord with it the everlasting door vvill be opened and the vvell-springs of life to the feeding of the plants of God with the uncorruptible food which is every word which proceedeth out of the mouth of the Lord vvhich vvill be received as that of God in every particular is kept single Again The Priest in his 3 4 5. Section saith That we deny the doctrine of the Trinity and that we hold equality with God and the soul be â—ne being with God and corrupt the doctrine of justification Answ. For a Trinity of persons there is no such docâ—â—â—ne in the Scriptures neither the vvord three Persons nor Trinity and so three distinct one from another eternally as he hath held forth saying Christ is the eternal Son of God distinct from the Father eternally and the Spirit is distinguished from the Father and the Son eternally This is a Tradition of men taught for a doctrine but no doctrine and in denying of that vve do but deny Claphams tradition but as for the Father Word and Spirit which bear record in heaven these three are one and vvas never separated eternally for Christ in the days of his flesh vvhen he vvas in the vvorld said I and my Father are one and said I in them and they in me that they may be one as we are one John 17.11 22. and so this doctrine of the unity of the Father Word and Spirit
vve ovvn and vvitness and as for our equality or unity vvith God vve that believe in him are one vvith him as the Scripture saith and as Christ prayed for us that believe John 17.21 that we might be one in him and in the Father and unity vve must confess for that is a doctrine â—ffirmed by the Apostles of Christ that as he is so are vve in the vvorld and he that sanctifieth and they that are sanctified are both one and so vve deny no doctrine but vvhatsoever is a doctrine vve vvitness it And to say that vve corrupt the doctrine of justification that is false for vve are freely justified by his grace and so do vvitness the doctrine of justification and vvho are true vvitnesses of it do not corrupt it but if vvhile vve seek to be justified by Christ vve our selves be found sinners is Christ therefore the Minister of sin God forbid Gal. 2.17 but herein doth the Priests of the World corrupt the doctrine of Justification professing to be justified by Christ while they themselves are found sinners and say that God doth account them righteous in Christ but unrighteous in themselves and so would make Christ the minister of sin and to justifie or save his people in their sins and not from them and so by them the doctrine of justification is corrupted and the Scripture perverted and the grace of God by which the Saints are freely justified is turned into wantonness and so by their faigned words in hypocrisie they cast thick clouds and vails of darkness over the peoples mindes to keep them in ignorance of the redemption of their immortal souls which is to be redeeâ—â—d by the blood of the Lamb they saying that the soul came indeed from God but is not of the being of God and yet in the 51. page tels of turning the whole frame of the soul to center in him again if it must centre in him again then it was in him before and so let thy confusion stop thy mouth Now let all consider in the light which comes from the immortal God whether Gods being is not in life and immortality and whether there is an immortal life but from the same being For God breathed into man the breath of life and through the breath of life he became a living soul Now the breath of life came from the life in which the being is and so to the people I say you have a light which comes from the same life in which the soul lived unto God in the beginning before death passed over which light is made manifest to lead out of death into the life from whence it came and to witness again a living soul and the breath of life and so to be wiser then all your teachers and to know him who hath all souls in his hand who breathed into man the breath of life and he so became a living soul and when he doth the evil the anguish is upon it and to feed atop those mountains which you have wandred after in the forgetfulness of God having forgotten God days without number Rom. 2.9 But now the light is come and knowledge begins to increase and shine in the hearts of the children of light to give them the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ and these things live in us Therefore we are his witnesses who is the light and life of men and did only for the seed sake let forth our knowledge of the mystery of God that they may be gathered into the fold among the Lambs of Christ for the day of scattering hath been long but now is the day of gathering begun wherein all they shall rejoyce that fear the Lord. 2 Cor. 4.6 And whereas many other accusations are charged upon us falsly for the name of Christ by the Priest yet seeing Christ the true Prophet hath said it should be so because they know not the Father nor him who hath enlightned every one that commeth into the World therefore can we bear all things being manifest unto God and to all men to be witnesses of those things which he saith we deny His accusations are these That we deny the Resurrection of the body the last Judgment Heaven and Hell Are enemies to all the Ordinances of Christ are not true mortified persons and our doctrine tendeth not to destroy sin That we are the common sink of all Heresies and enemies to civility and good manners Ans. Our doctrine is the same as is testified of in the Scripture of truth and where it is received remission of sins is received it being the same that our Example the first-born amongst many brethren the first begotten from the dead preached vvhich Gospel vve preach to every creature vvhich Gospel is the povver of God and where it is received doth both destroy sin and sanctifie them throughout in body soul and spirit and by it is the members vvhich are upon the earth mortified for this is the povver that raised up Jesus from the dead and doth also quicken out mortal bodies by his Spirit that dvvelleth in us in vvhich the Scripture is vvitnessed which was a Treatise of those things which was knovvn and surely believed amongst the Saints and vvhich saith they that are asleep in the dust of the earth shall rise some to everlasting life and some to everlasting shame and contempt and from â—he true foundation vvitnessing these doctrines vvhich the Apostles did not lay again the foundation of Repentance from dead vvorks and faith tovvards God of the doctrine of baptisms and laying on of hands and of the Resurrection from the dead and of eternal â—udgment Heb. 6.12 for vve having learned vvhat it is to be baptised for the dead deny such as say there is no â—esurrection of the dead the first fruiâ—s of this Resurrection is Christ 1 Cor. 15.22 of which â—hey tâ—at are of Christ are witnesses of these things and they come to know each seed in the light through the figures and through the parables Now in the parables I say to you that seed which you sow in the earth whether it be Wheat or other grain you sow not that body which shall be but God giveth it a body as pleaseth him If it be so in the earthly parable then learn to know the seeds and the nature of them which God giveth to each of them it s own body there is heavenly bodies and earthly bodies â—he glory of the heavenly is one and the glory of the earthly is another and so all being turned to the light which you are enlightned withal you in it will know the things that differ both the seeds the bodies and the glories and so let every one be a witness of what they profess of the things of God for by the Spirit of the Lord have we received the knowledge and so are made witnesses of these thingâ— which our brethren the Prophets and Apostles of Jesus Christ hath testified in the
offence now to preach the word of Faith to be as a little light or to preach the annointing to be as a little light in those in whom the light is little doth this also offend you What then if we should say That Christ is the light of life the son of righteousness the glory and express figure of the Fathers substance in some and but as a little light or day-star in others or in others as a light before the day-star arise in their hearts Is not the light great in some little in others And is not Christ the same May that only be called Christ which takes away the sins And may not that also be called Christ which pierceth through the soul revealeth the thoughts of many hearts Luke 2.35 May he only be called Christ unto whom the Father hath given the Heathen for his inheritance and the utmost parts of the earth for his possession who reigneth and hath all his enemies under his feets is not he the same as he is descended into the lower parts of the earth which took upon him the form of a servant So therefore that none may err in their judgments concerning the testimony which is given of Christ of his light his light is more or less according to his manifestation in every one there being given to every one a manifestation of the spirit to profit withal every one is to be turned to the measure of their manifestation to know witness Christ in it though in many it be but as a little light yet they are to be turned unto it while it is so which as it doth encrease is enlarged it may be called or declared under another name than little as the Kingdom of Heaven is not alwayes like unto a grain of mustard-seed nor as a little leaven but comes to rule in the children of men And whereas the Accuser replieth against the light and against Christ to be the word of Faith saying Christ is called the Word of God Rev. 19.13 but not the Word of Faith and yet saith in page 45. That Christ 〈◊〉 the Author and finisher of Faith Answ. If Christ be the Word of God and faith come by Hearing and Hearing by the Word of God then how is it that he is not the word of Faith being that word by which Faith comes when it is heard and he being the Author of it may he not then as well be called the Word of it as the Author of it seeing he is the Word by which it comes but that all may understand what this word of faith was which the Apostle preached This was Christ Rom. 10. and they preached no other Word to be the Word of faith but Christ That whosoever believed on him should not be ashamed So that if the ignorance of Christ and of the Apostles words were blotted out of the hearts of our Accusers they would be silent and the daily reproach would cease And whereas it is affirmed by us That the Light or a measure of Christ within is a sure word of prophesie or a more sure word of prophesie as Peter saith 2 Pet. 1 19. And whereas many are offended at this and labours to make people believe that this is the Writings of the Prophets which is the more sure Word of Prophesie the Apostle speaks of because he saith Knowing this first that no prophesie of the Scriptures is of any private interpretation for the prophesie came not in old time by the will of man but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Ghost c. Answ. Now I shall make it appear that it was not the Writings of the Prophets which was that more sure Word as first concerning that here is one thing held out to be a sure Word and another thing held out to be more sure as unto thoâ—e to whom it was spoken And as concerning the first That whâ—ch is held out to be a sure Word is that which came from the Father the voice which came from the excellent Glory saying This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased and this voice which came from heaven the Disciples hâ—ard when they were with him in the holy Mount This was a sure Word when it was spoken and when it was written it was a sure testimony as sure as any of the Prophets Writings for the Prophets did see that he was to come and he that was to come was the well beloved Son of the Father and they wrote this down and it was a sure testimony of Christ and Peter and the rest saw that he was come and did hear the voice from the excellent glory proclaiming him 〈◊〉 be the Son of God and when they had seen it they wrote it down and this was a sure testimony yea a surer then the Prophets and that which the Apostles were eye-witnesses of and did write down for truth was as much to be taken heed unto as that which the Prophets declared and this will all men of understanding judge that the Apostle Peter did not direct the people to the Prophets words to take heed to them because they were more sure then his own and more to be believed But although the Apostles words and writings were confirmed with more power and witness of the Spirit then the Prophets and both true yet the Apostles Ministry unto those which did not see those things which the Prophets saw much less those things the Apostles saw no not so far as the dawning of the day nor to the day-â—â—ar risen in their hearts therefore Peter dividing the Word of God aright saith unto them We have a more sure word of prophesie whereunto ye do well that ye take heed as unto a light that shineth in a dark place untill the day dawn and the day-star arise in your hearts 2 Pet. 1.19 It was more sure for them to take heed unto that which was as a light shining in a dark place till the day-star did arise and the day dawn in their hearts then the declaration from others without them declared in words and writings as thus for example by experience to suâ—h I shall direct my speech who cannot witness the day dawned nor the day-star risen in their hearts nor hath heard the voice from the excellent Glory to such I say That which I have seen and heard the visions power and glory wherein I am an eye-witness of his glory and of his appearance this I may declare and write unto you and you may believe it But to such I say It is more sure for them to take heed to the light that shines in the dark place till they come to witness in themselves the day dawned and day-star risen and the Son of God made manifest in them then to take heed to the words which I have declared though it be a true testimony for the Apostle did not write to himself nor say that it was more sure unto him but unto
by which all the other may be compared and judged Again divers Reasons are alledged as a cause of printing J.G. his defence of the Priests First he saith The great malice and envy against the Ministers and the many Letters and printed Books sent by Quakers and the great growth and encrease in Errors and because many of his old Friends and Acquaintance are as he saith seduced from the Church and to strengthen such as are wavering through ignerance and weakness and to clear himself c. and that it might be seen and come into many hands Ans. He that would accomplish those things before-named to wit subdue malice envy and error and instruct the ignorant and him that is out of the way and strengthen the weak he must be such a one as is led by the Spirit and walks in the Light of Christ which is so much hated and contemned by Priests their defenders that first those things may be subdued in themselves and then minister against them in others but none of those things can be done by that spirit which hath ruled in J.G. but that his latter reasons which he saith moved him to print may be fulfilled that is that it may be seen and come into many hands that to thy own shame when they read and consider thy unlearned Logick wherein thou goest to prove that it is not sufficient to bring us to Heaven to be freed from sin for thou saist a Horse hath no sin and so by thy comparison a man without sin is but as a Horse so that thou hast truly said thy work is without Eloquence or Humane Art But seeing thou hast taken in hand to put things to publike view in thy next prove who those men are upon the Earth that are without sin and are not sufficient for the Kingdom of Heaven and whether was it any thing that did separate man from God but sin And was not Christ only made manifest to take away sin And is not man perfectly righteous when his sin is tâ—ken away made the righteousness of God in him which takes it away to wit the Lamb of God which all the Nations of them that are saved must walk in his Light and it is those that hate the Light iâ— against freedom from sin that have no understanding of the mysteries of God which is like the horse or mule whose mouth must be held with bit bridle and are like the beast that perish but they that are freed from sin are not so neither is the horse their comparison but herein thou hast shamed thy self thy Ministers that they should be so ignorant as neither to teach thee better doctrine before thou didst write nor correct thee when thou hadst written but to suffer such a thing to appear in this Nation where Light is broken forth that the state of freedom from sin is no better then the state of a horse but as the Scripture saith Your folly shall be made manifest unto all men Which Scripture is daily fulfilling and we are satisfied in it Again to vindicate the Priests of England to be Ministers of the gospel thou bringst many Scriptures whereby thou wouldst prove them to be lawfully called though they be out of the power of God and want the power of that which they teach p. 7. As the sons of Eli thou saist were lawful Priests though they were wicked men and this is a fit comparison as thou may read in the first of Samuel 2.12 Now the sons of Eli were sons of Belial they knew not the Lord and so according to this thou hast rightly compared the Priests for though they have the name of being called yet know they the Lord no more then the sons of Belial did Again in the same page thou saist The Scribes and Pharisees were called to teach and Judas was a true Apostle from which thou wouldst prove the call of the Priests to be a true call to the ministry Answ. If the Priests did minister as truly as the Scribes and Pharisees did that is read or speak the Scriptures truly then thou mightest exhort the people to do as the Priests say but not to do as they do but seeing that they do not truly speak the Scripture but by consequences pervert it as thou hast done in thy book it is not therefore a good doctrine to bid the people either do as they say or as they do because they both say falsly and do falsly And as for thy comparing of them to Judas as for his being called and receiving part of the Ministry that they are not like unto him in because as yet they have no part nor lot in that matter but for his treachery and covetousness bearing the bag and betraying the Lord of Life for pieces of money in that they may be compared to him But thou saist The wickedness of the person doth not disannul his Office being lawfully called thereunto until he be degraded from that Office And to prove it thou bringst several Scriptures as Ezek. 34.3 where the Shepherds eat the fat and cloath with the wool and did not feed the Flock Isa 56.10 11. They are dumb dogs that cannot bark sleeping lying down loving to slumber they all look to their own way every one for his gain from his Quarter Come ye say they I wâ—ll fetch Wine and we will fill our selves with strong drink and to morrow shall be as this day and much more abundant And these saist thou were truly called From which example your Ministers as thou thus provest are lawfully called to the work of the Ministry but when these Ministers and people read thy book they wil not much commend thee for such a defence for them but how dost thou prove that those before mentioned were lawfully called unto the work of the Ministry being wicked persons but when thou read'st the Scripture over again thou maist see that those are such as the Lord said did run he sent them not and said the Lord saith when he had not spoken unto them Jer. 14.14 Now in this Vindication thou hast not done any thing of that pretended confuting E.B. his Book called A jusl and lawful Tryal of the Ministers and Teachers of this age but hast rather confirmed it for he truly compared them unto those spoken of before-mentioned and thou hast compared them as to the sons of Eli which were sons of Belial knew not God and so his Book yet stands in force for a tryal to such unanswered And again as for thy pleading for tythes for such as are like the sons of Belial thou hast no precept practice nor example in Scripture to plead for such a thing neither as such nor as the Ministers of Christ. And whereas thou mention'st Acts 4. and Acts 5. and 1 Cor. 9.4.5 c. These Scriptures speak nothing of tythes nor of any Maintenance to the Ministry but only how that when they had planted a Vinyard they might eat of the