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A42568
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An answer to the compiler of the Nubes testium wherein is shewn that antiquity (in relation to the points of controversie set down by him) did not for the first five hundred years believe, teach, or practice as the Church of Rome doth at present believe, teach, and practice : together with a vindication of the Veteres vindicati from the late weak and disingenuous attempts of the author of Transubstantiation defended / by the author of the Answer to Mr. Sclater of Putney.
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Gee, Edward, 1657-1730.
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1688
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Wing G453; ESTC R21951
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96,934
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Conclusion of it though our Compiler is so sly in the translating of it as if the Canon meant onely that the Bishop of Rome should govern the Vniversal Church according to the Acts of General Councils and to the Holy Canons whereas it is plain this Canon speaks not of the Exercise but of the Original of the Pope's Power and of the Testimonies for it in the Acts and Canons of the General Councils but F. Alexandre himself taught our Compiler to translate thus n Dissertatio quarta Par. prima Sec. prim p. 398. and truly I think he ought to have the Reputation of first finding the Gallican Liberties in this Definition of the Council of Florence which Council was not usually thought to have been such a friend to the Gallican Liberties witness what the Cardinal of Lorrain is said to have spoken of it in just such another Council at Trent but the Men of this age are strangely set upon making new discoveries this age found out that the Libri Carolini nor the Council of Frankfort were not against the Image-council of Nice that Bertram was as true a man for Transubstantiation as Paschasius Radbertus that first in all probability forged it and our Nat. Alexandre must come in for his share for discovering that greatest thing the French Clergy are so earnest upon in this Definition of the Council of Florence SECT II. The places of Scripture that are urged by the Church of Rome to prove the Divine Institution of the Pope's Supremacy are very few that of St. Matthew with another from St. John Nat. Alexandre our Compiler's Guide doth insist upon them for the proof of the Pope's Supremacy One would expect that they should be very clear and very full Texts that are brought to confirm such a Portentous Authority as the Papal Supremacy appears to be St. Matthew doth relate o Matth. 16.18 19. that upon St. Peter's having confessed our Saviour to be the Son of the living God our Saviour should say unto him Thou art Peter and upon this Rock I will build my Church and the Gates of hell shall not prevail against it and I will give unto thee the Keyes of the Kingdom of Heaven and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven c. Here they tell us that our Saviour built his Church upon St. Peter who is the Rock mentioned here and that he was thereupon invested with all Church power the power of the Keyes which power and government was by him deposited with his Successours the Bishops of Rome In answer to this we say that there is nothing extraordinary or particular for St. Peter here because He is not the Rock mentioned here nor had the power of the Keyes committed to him any otherwise than in common with the rest of his fellow-Apostles as our Saviour put the Question to all the Apostles so St. Peter answering it in the name of them all had the promise of or received this power of the Keyes in behalf of them all and for their common use of them Since then this place of Scripture is not sufficiently evident or clear for the purpose both parties claiming an interest in it for their contrary senses and we avouching that it is absolutely against St. Peter's being either Rock or having any particular extraordinary power if it be considered with its relation to the context before and to the rest of the Gospels and Epistles either this passage of St. Matthew as obscure must be set aside as useless towards the proof of a Supremacy or They of the Church of Rome must convince us that the Vnanimous Consent of Fathers did always interpret this place of Scripture in favour of St. Peter's Supremacy This thing one would think they were very able to doe since they are so ready to say they can and to assert that the Fathers did unanimously interpret the Rock mentioned in this passage to be the Person of St. Peter Thus our Compiler p Nubes Test p. 22. very gravely tells us that the Fathers teach that Christ built his Church upon Peter and this F. Alexandre had taught him to say who certainly had considered the thing very well when he q Dissert 4. P. 1. Sec. 1. p. 274. tells us that the Fathers did with a Nemine contradicente r Quocirca Sancti Patres Communi suffragio c. Ibid. p. 274. interpret the Rock to be meant of St. Peter Ignorance among all people is allowed to alleviate a crime and a blind-fold implicit transcribing of a Writer's sense must be allowed to be very near allyed unto it or else our Compiler ought to be treated as a person guilty of very disingenuous and unjust behaviour towards the memory of the Fathers F. Alexandre however who taught our Compiler to publish so gross an untruth is by no means excusable for should we allow him to be ignorant in the Fathers own writings and to have transcribed this bold untruth out of Bellarmine Å¿ Accedat speaking of Peter 's being the Rock consensus Ecclesiae totius Graecorum ac Latinorum Patrum c. Bellarm. de Romano Pontifice l. 1. c. 10. or some other of their Writers yet He cannot be ignorant I am sure how fully his learned Countrey-man the famous Monsieur Launoy hath examined the sense of the Fathers and Ecclesiastical Writers upon this Text of St. Matthew how distinctly he hath put down the four different Interpretations of the Rock in this Text the first of which makes it to be the Person of St. Peter the second makes it to be all the Apostles with their Successours the third teaches that it is the Faith confessed by St. Peter and the last that the Rock here is the Person of Christ himself t Launoii Epist ad Guil. Voellum apud Part. 5. Epistolarum p. 4 11 18 38. Natalis Alexandre cannot but know how invincibly this most learned Sorbonist hath shewn that the Generality of Fathers and Ecclesiastical Writers are for the third Interpretation which makes the Faith confessed by St. Peter and not St. Peter himself to be the Rock on which Christ's Church was built that a great many are for the fourth Interpretation that says the Rock was Christ himself This last Interpretation falling in with the third for Christ or the Faith confessed concerning Christ come to the same thing may be with most reason called the unanimous Consent of the Church-Interpreters that the rock here is not Peter whenas there are but a few of those Fathers for the first Interpretation and most of their expressions capable of the second and not inconsistent with the third Interpretation So that if the Interpretations of above fifty Fathers and Ecclesiastical Writers among whom we muster no fewer than eleven Popes and two Synods are to be admitted against that of three or four Fathers We are sufficiently secured that the Interpretation of the Rock in this Text its being the Faith confessed by St.
guilt of sins that they can get rid of the guilt of those sins after they are gone off the stage of this world while they were on earth God might wait and expect that they would repent and become better but when they are once gone off hence 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 unto the place of the damned or state of the dead there is no hopes of gaining by repentance any release since in this place or state there is no confession of sins to God for which St. Chrysostome quotes the sixth verse of the sixth Psalm according to the Seventy It were easie to bring a hundred places out of that Father that speak the same thing but I have already gathered more than enough to shew that St. Chrysostom's Doctrine is utterly inconsistent with the Romish Purgatory SECT IV. I will now pass on to the rest of our Compiler's Testimonies the first of which from Theodoret a Nub. Test p. 92. N. Alex. p. 401. brings us no news nor proves any thing for him nor the next to it from St. Ambrose b Nub. Test p. 92 93. N. Alex. p. 402. though it makes a great shew it is granted that St. Ambrose in this anniversary funeral Oration spoken so long after Theodosius his death doth fall to praying for Rest for Theodosius that his Soul may ascend to Heaven whence it came and there be out of the power of death and is so passionately earnest upon it that he would not leave him till by his Tears and Prayers he had brought him unto the Mountain of the Lord where He might enjoy Life for evermore But does all this prove that St. Ambrose did believe that the Emperour's Soul was in Purgatory or that Theodosius was in a miserable condition for whom he seems to be so earnest with his Prayers and Tears He that will affirm this must be as much a stranger to St. Ambrose as our brisk Compiler is I will confine my self to this very Oration which had Natalis Alexandre himself ever read he would not have brought this passage in for a Proof of Purgatory since it does so often appear in every page but one I dare avouch it that St. Ambrose did look upon Theodosius as already in glory and enjoying perfect happiness Thus within ten lines of the beginning of this Oration he says c Et ille quidem abiit sibi in regnum quod non depesuit sed mutavit in tabernacula Christi jure pietatis ascitus in illam Hierusalem supernam ubi NVNC POSITVS dicit sicut audivimus c. D. Ambr. Orat. de Obitu Theodosii T. 3. p. 53. Edit Erasm 1538. that Theodosius was now gone into his heavenly Kingdom being admitted for his Piety unto those Mansions in heaven which Christ said he would go to his Father to prepare into the heavenly Hierusalem where he is now placed c. and a little farther he brings in the Soul of this great Emperour replenished d Ergo decedens è terris Pia Anima Sancto repleta Spiritu quasi interrogantibus iis qui sibi occurrerent cum sese ad sublimia superna subrigeret dicebat Dilexi interrogabant Angeli vel Archangeli quid egisti in terris Occultorum enim SOLVS Cognitor Deus dicebat Dilexi Idem Ibidem p. 56. with the Holy Ghost mounting up into Heaven and telling the Angels and Archangels who were according to St. Ambrose ignorant of things below and therefore did inquire of him that the love of God had been his employment here on earth and after this falling upon the mention of the Rest of Sabbath for the People of God St. Ambrose e Feriatus his seculi curis Theodofius se ereptum gaudet elevat animam suam atque ad illam perpetuam dirigit Requiem Idem Ibidem p. 58. tells his Auditours that Theodosius being now wholly rid of worldly cares does rejoyce that He is taken from them and employs his Soul onely upon the thoughts of the eternal Rest for blessed Souls and again he f Absolutus igitur dubio certamine fruitur NVNC Augustae Memoriae Theodosius Luce Perpetuâ Tranquillitate Diuturnâ pro iis quae in Corpore gessit munerationis divinae Fructibus gratulatur ergo quia dilexit Dominum Deum suum meruit Sanctorum Consortia Idem Ibidem p. 58. tells them that Theodosius being freed from uncertain fight did THEN ENJOY perpetual Light and a never-ceasing Tranquillity and that he did enjoy and rejoyce in the Communion and Company of the Saints in Glory I could add more were not this more than enough to let the world see the intolerable disingenuity of our Compiler and his Guide F. Alexandre who will needs have St. Ambrose to be here praying Theodosius his Soul out of Purgatory whereas it is as plain as any thing can be expressed that St. Ambrose did believe that from the very moment of his death that Great Emperour was with God in Bliss and perfect Tranquillity The next Testimony from this Father g Nub. Test p. 93. N. Alex. p. 402. is to as little purpose and had F. Alexandre himself for as to our Compiler he honest Soul with an humble piece of implicitness sets down just what his Master had but set down also the line which is immediately before and connected to this Testimony he might have saved me the trouble of answering here St. Ambrose having told Faustinus that we ought not to be so much concerned for the Accidents of this World put down for an example the Casualties of several famous Cities near them then in dust and never like to return to their ancient splendour and then begins to compare these with the loss of his Sister who as the Father urges h Haec autem ad tempus quidem erepta nobis MELIOREM ILLIC VITAM exigat itaque non tam deplorandam quam prosequendam Orationibus reor D. Ambros ad Faustinum Ep. 8. l. 2. Edit Erasm 1538. is but taken from us for a while and doth there enjoy a much happier life so that here our Compiler's Testimony comes in he ought not so much to bewail her as to follow her with his Prayers If she did enjoy a much happier life I am sure she was not then in the flames of Purgatory In the next Testimony i Nub. Test p. 93. N. Alex. p. 402. St. Hierome commends Pammachius for his great Charity and for his designs of building a publick Hospital and thereby cherishing as it were with odours the Soul of Paulina his departed Wife St. Hierome however was far from thinking her Soul in Purgatory flames when just before he ends the Epistle he speaks of her k illa cum sorore Paulinâ DVLCI SOMNO fruitur D. Hieron Ep. 26. ad Pammach T. 1. fol. 76. Edit Erasin 1524. as then enjoying a sweet sleep or blessed Rest What St. Austin l Nubes Test p. 94 95. N. Alex. p. 402 403. did in