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A47748 Liturgy's vindicated by the dissenters, or, The lawfulness of forms of prayer and liturgies proved from the very texts of Scripture urged against them by John Bunyan and the dissenters / by the author of the Religious conference between a minister and his parishioner about infant baptism. Leslie, Charles, 1650-1722. 1700 (1700) Wing L1137; ESTC R34970 43,840 127

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to Despair than perswade them to Pray but as he immediately subjoyns bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord and what can that import but to teach them to say the Creed Lord's Prayer and Ten Commandments which contain the Sum and Substance of the Christian Religion even what we ought to believe and do and how to Pray in order to Salvation But especially to teach our Children to Pray according to that perfect and compleat Form which our Lord Jesus has taught us and left upon Record in the Gospel this is to Breed them up in the Nurture and Admonition of the Lord and not the next way to make them cursed Hypocrites and puff them up with Pride as our uncharitable Author says it will p. 78. I am confident to tell little Children of Hell-fire and Damnation and their own Wretched and Miserable estate if they understand what we say is the next way to cast them down into the Gulph of Despair and therefore our blessed Saviour took a quite contrary Course with them Mark 10.14 Suffer little Children to come unto me and forbid them not for of such is the Kingdom of Heaven and v. 15. Whosoever shall not receive the Kingdom of God as a little Child he shall not enter therein and ver 16. He took them up in his Arms puts his Hands upon them and Blessed them which without doubt he did by some short Form of Prayer and so by that taught little Children to Pray also Our Lord Jesus to encourage little Children to be good betimes says of such is the Kingdom of Heaven but J. Bunyan to discourage them says of such is the Kingdom of Hell Christ proposes them as a Pattern of Meekness Innocence and Humility Mat. 18.2 3 4 5 6. But John Bunyan exposes them as the Objects of Gods Wrath and Vengeance and so many Brands of Hell-fire and this he says will make Tears run down your sweet Babes Eyes and hearty Groans to flow from your Hearts tho' any one else would imagine this would swallow them up with overmuch Grief and sink their tender Spirits into downright Despair and here I cannot chuse but take notice how much this Man is for Groaning since he would have Children to learn it instead of their Prayers Why according to his way of Expounding Scripture Rom. 8.26 the Childrens Groanings may be as acceptable to God as the best of our Prayers for as I observ'd before Chap. 7. he says The Apostles could not so well come off in the manner of performing this Duty c. When the Holy Ghost assisted them yet even then they were fain to come off with Sighs and Groans falling short of expressing their Minds but with Sighs and Groans which cannot be utter'd But how then could they express their Minds by them if they were unutterable and cannot Children as well express their Minds this way as the very Apostles themselves if they can but Groan lustily as he supposes the other to have done So that our Author has found out a new Way to teach Children to Pray as well as their ungifted Brethren 't is but for them to Groan well and often and loud and the Work is done and they may be said to Pray as well as the Apostles ever did and this Groaning will save them the labour of Reading the Bible or Learning any Catechism that has the Lord's Prayer in it O poor sweet Babes The Lord open your Eyes and make you see and shun the wicked and pernicious Counsel of such groaning Hypocrites And I must farther observe that J. Bunyan does not in all his Advice here put Parents upon Teaching their Children to Read the Holy Scriptures tho' Timothy had done it from a Child and St. Paul commends him for it 2 Tim. 3.15 And I doubt the true Reason why he does not mention the Reading their Bibles is for fear they should meet with the Lord's Prayer in it and so have a mind to learn by Heart that excellent Form which Christ himself has made and enjoyned all his Disciples to use yet p. 79. he Quotes a Passage out of Psalm 34.11 which is this Come ye Children hearken unto me and I will Teach you the fear of the Lord Which after his silly way he Paraphrases thus David does not say I will Nuzzle you up in a Form but I will Teach you the fear of the Lord. Where if the words refer to Children and not Men as they seem to do from the next Verse ver 12. What Man is he that desireth Life Yet 1st Jo. Bunyan uses a Beastly Comparison in calling our Teaching Children a Form of Prayer a Nuzzling them up in it which is an Expression belonging to Hogs whose young ones are said to be Nuzzled up by them and 't is a piece of Profane Wit to compare the Teaching our Children Godly Forms of Prayer to the rearing up young Pigs this is to offend and despise not only one but all these little ones tho' we are cautioned against it at the Peril of our Souls and least their Angels Revenge the Contempt we throw upon them Mat. 18.6.10 Whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me it were better that a Milstone were hanged about his Neck and that he were Drowned in the depth of the Sea Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones for I say unto you that in Heaven their Angels do always behold the Face of my Father which is in heaven 2dly 'T is plain that David was for Educating Children in a Form or else he had not kept the Commandment of the Lord who required him to do it as is evident from Deut. 6.6 7. And these Words which I command thee this Day shall be in thine Heart which relates chiefly to the ten Commandments mentioned in the 5th Chapter And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy Children and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thy House and when thou walkest by the Way and when thou lyest down and when thou risest up And Deut. 31.12.13 Gather the People together Men Women and Children and the Stranger that is within thy Gates that they may hear and that they may learn and fear the Lord your God and observe to do all the Words of this Law And What was all this but the Teaching their Children Forms So that David himself according to this Fellows unseemly Comparison did Nuzzle up Children in Forms or else he had disobeyed God which required it and the Teaching them such Forms is here called the Teaching them the fear of the Lord so unhappy still is this Man in urging Texts of Scripture that they all conclude against him and for that very thing against which he produceth them CHAP. X. NOW after all least any should censure me for speaking too lightly of these Mens Groanings and Pretences to Pray by the Spirit I have this which I presume will be thought sufficient by all Honest and Impartial
Dead but I have harkened to the Voice of the Lord my God and have done according to all that thou hast commanded me look down from thy holy Habitation from Heaven and bless thy People Israel and the Land which thou hast given us as thou swearest unto our Fathers a Land that floweth with Milk and Honey And both these Forms of Prayer and Thanksgiving were the Jewish People constantly to observe twice every Year in all succeeding Generations when they offer'd their first Fruits and Tythes before the Lord but according to John Bunyan's bantering way he would expose them thus The Wise Men of Moses his Days with himself the Priests and People were so well skill'd that they had both the matter and the manner of their Prayers at their Fingers end seting such a Prayer for such a Day and that twenty Years before it comes one for the Day wherein they Offered their First-fruits another for the Day wherein they Offered their Tythes they have also bounded how many Syllables must be said in every one of their Prayers at their publick Exercises for each of these Offering Days they have them ready for the Generations yet unborn to say so that if there be any weight in this way of Arguing it will cast as much disgrace upon the Prayers of Moses which yet were Dictated and Directed by the infinite Wisdom of Almighty God as upon the Prayers of the Church of England which were also Composed by the same Spirit If it be said that Moses the Jewish Priests and People had not the assistance of the Holy Spirit as we have and therefore they were tyed to Forms from which we are now set free I Answer or rather John Bunyan does it for me p. 53 You do not find any Words of Prayer that we read of come out of the Mouth of Moses when he was going out of Egypt and was followed by Pharaoh Ex. 14.15 and yet he made Heaven ring again with his Cry but it was the inexpressible and unsearchable Groans and Cryings of his Soul in and with the Spirit And this he repeats p. 75. so that by our Adversaries own Confession Moses had the Spirit and could Pray by it even in their Sense as well at least as any Gifted Brother of them all and yet this very Moses sometimes used a Form of Prayer himself and also prescribed a Form of Prayers for others even the Jewish Priests and People to be constantly observed by them on solemn Occasions and on such particular Days and Seasons of the Year 2dly Those two great solemn Festivals which my Author mentions as observ'd by our Church Christmas and Easter have good Authority for their Observation even in the New Testament for can we have better Warrant for our keeping Christmas-Day than the Holy Angels keeping of it in a full Quire as they did Luke 2.13 and suddenly there was with the Angel i. e. who brought the Shepherds the joyful News of Christ's Birth a Multitude of the Heavenly Host Praising God and saying and they did it all in the same Form Glory to God in the highest and on Earth Peace and good Will towards Men. Now What other Reason can there be given why so many if not all the Angels should be present on Earth at this time and unanimously Worship God except it were to teach us to set apart this Day in all future Ages for a Day of Thanksgiving to God for the greatest Mercy was afforded the World since the Creation even the Birth and Incarnation of the Saviour of it Well may we keep Christmass-Day our Humane Nature being assum'd into the Godhead and a Saviour being Born to us upon it which is Christ the Lord When the Holy Angels kept this Day whose Nature he did not assume and to whom he was not Born a Saviour as he was to us I shall say no more in behalf of this great Festival but Transcribe a Passage out of the Assemblies Annotations on this portion of Scripture Luke 2. 13. ‖ See the Assemblies Annotations on Luke 2.13 Thus God would say they have this publick Service for so their Multitude made it performed by all who have Knowledge of and Interest in the Birth of Christ as to manifest his Mercy and Truth so to Condemn their stupid Ingratitude who perversely refuse to joyn in this Duty as if general Precepts in Gods Word right Reason and the Examples of Men and Angels inspired by Gods Spirit chosen Witnesses of of our Saviours Nativity and for this same purpose sent by God himself from Heaven that they might thus Celebrate that Day were not sufficient Warrant to lead them to Imitation and joining in an Holy Harmony with them And as for our keeping Easter Day can we have better Authority than St. Pauls Command for it 1 Cor. 5.7 8. Christ our Passover is Sacrificed for us therefore let us keep the Feast i.e. Easter which is our Christian Passover that comes in the room of the Jewish not with the old Leaven neither with the Leaven of Malice and Wickedness which is a plain Allusion to some of the Typical Ceremonies wherewith the Israelites kept their Passover and proves that we Christians should keep Easter with the substance of those Types even the unleavened Bread of Sincerity and Truth i. e. in a pious Preparation for and devout Participation of the Lords Supper in a Death to Sin and a Resurrection to newness of Life Yet besides this Scriptural Argument I shall add one Consideration more and that is King Charles the Martyrs Quaery propounded to the Parliaments Commissioners at Holdenby April 23. 1647. I desire to be resolved of this Question Why the new Reformers discharge the keeping of Easter The Reason of this Quaery it I conceive the Celebration of this Feast was Instituted by the same Authority which changed the Jewish Sabbath into the Lords Day or Sunday for it will not be found in Scripture where Saturday is discharged to be kept or turned into the Sunday wherefore it must be the Churches Authority that Changed the one and Instituted the other therefore my Opinion is that those who will not keep this Feast may as well return to the Observation of Saturday and refuse the weekly Sunday when any Body can shew me that herein I am in an Error I shall not be ashamed to confess and amend it till when you know my Mind C. R. Lastly As to the Observation of Saints Days those Men have no Reason to upbraid us with it who every Year keep their Festival Days in Memory of the Seiges and prosperous Rebellion they rais'd and maintain'd against their rightful Soveraign Indeed had they Fought for him and been preserv'd and deliver'd in so Just and Loyal a Cause to have kept an Anniversary Day in Remembrance of it wou'd have been a justifiable Practice and so it is to observe those few Saints Days whose Memory our Church requires us once a Year to Celebrate having the like Authority
Expressions by no means agree to St. Paul who was Converted before this being quite contrary to the Nature of a Regenerate Man who is said in other places of this Epistle to be free from Sin and the Servant of Righteousness Rom. 6.18 That the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ has made me free from the Law of Sin and Death Rom. 8.2 That he has crucified the Flesh with the Affections and Lusts Gal. 5.24 That Sin does not Reign in his mortal Body that he should obey it in the Lusts thereof Rom. 6.12 So that unless we can twist Contradictions we cannot suppose St. Paul to speak of himself in that seventh Chapter but only of a Judaising Christian or a Convinced but not Converted Person and nothing is more usual than for Prophets and Apostles to speak in the Person of others when they say I or We did so or so for we cannot suppose St. Paul and the rest of the Apostles or indeed any sensible Christian so very Ignorant as not to know to whom and thro' whom and for what to Pray and therefore the we know not c. must have respect to other Men and such as were Heathens and Unconverted who had not before heard of Christ or seen the Gospel where there are Rules laid down and those Dictated and written by the Holy Spirit how they and all Men ought to Pray even to our Father which is in Heaven thro' his beloved Son Jesus Christ for such Lawful things as are according to his Will And when Men Pray thus according to that excellent Form which Christ has prescribed his Holy Spirit will also assist them with good Desires so that they shall Heartily wish and long for those things for which they Pray with submission to the Will of God and thus the Spirit helpeth our Infirmities in revealing to us the Holy Scriptures where those that were Ignorant before are taught how to Pray as they ought But our Author goes on with his Paraphrase p. 30.31 The Apostles when they were at best yea when they were assisted with the Holy Ghost yet then they were fain to come off with Sighs and Groans c. Mark here says he they could not so well and fully come off in the manner of performing this Duty as these in our Days think they can But is not this another good Argument for Forms of Prayer when the Apostles themselves stood in need of them and therefore desired Christ to teach them such a Form as John had taught his Disciples Luke 11.1 Lord teach us to Pray as John also taught his Disciples And certainly they had need to be taught such a Form to help them out if they were such Bunglers at Prayer as J. Bunyan represents them viz. That they were not able to make an end of the Prayer they had begun in the Congregation but were forc'd to break off abruptly perhaps in the midst thereof which must needs cause Shame to themselves and Disappointment and Confusion to the whole Assembly which all their Sighs and Groans would never be able to compensate but no Man of Sense can believe the Apostles ever Prayed at this rate in the Church of God where they command all things to be done Decently and in order and to the Edification of the People 1 Cor. 14.26.40 For what Order Decency or Edifying is there in Sighs and Groans which Hypocrites may utter as well as Sincere Christians And when either does it who can tell the meaning of them And may not a Man edifie as much by the Quakers Silent-meetings as by such Sighs and Groans which have no certain and determinate Signification as Words and Speeches have And yet if we may believe Jo. Bunyan these were a good part of the Apostles Prayers even in their publik Assemblies but the Proof which he brings for it is Simple and Ridiculous viz. For the Spirit it self maketh Intercession for us with Groanings which cannot be uttered Whereas these are not the Groanings of the Apostles or of any Man else upon the Face of the Earth but the Groanings of the Holy-Ghost himself in Heaven where together with the Lord Jesus he maketh Intercession for us at the Right-hand of God and that in a very fervent and powerful manner which St. Paul calls his Groanings which cannot be uttered and therefore can never be applyed to the Groanings of Men which are always heard and make a sound in their very utterance So foolish and presumptuous is this Man in Expounding and Applying this Text especially in endeavouring to prove from it that the Holy Spirit does invent and dictate to us the very words of Prayer for here are no Words at all proceeding from the Spirit but only Groanings How then can this place prove that the Spirit suggests to us the Words of our Prayer when he interceeds for us without Words even with Groanings but pray mistake not not with such Groanings as Jo. Bunyan and his Party makes and may be heard in every corner of the House and in the very Streets but with Groanings that cannot be uttered And that these are the inexpressible Desires of Christ and the Spirit of God in Heaven is plain from Rom. 8.27 He that searcheth the Hearts i. e. Almighty God whose Prerogative it is knoweth what is the Mind of the Spirit because he maketh Intercession for the Saints according to the Will of God So that this Text also as all the rest turns upon the Objector and proves that the Spirit does not put Words into their Mouths nor cause those Groanings which are so loud and frequent in their Meetings the Spirits Groanings here being said to be without noise or sound without utterance or expression they are such as cannot be uttered Whence I may well conclude that Jo. Bunyan 's extemporary Prayers his dismal Groans and those Fits and Agonies of the Spirit which he says he was sometimes in when he was strongly perswaded to leave off and to seek the Lord no longer p. 71. I may conclude I say that this is a great Cheat of the Devil and Antichrist by which he does delude and deceive the World by which Men would perswade themselves and others that they Pray with the Spirit that they Preach with the Spirit and Hear with the Spirit even with the same extraordinary Spirit which St. Paul had when there is no such thing but they are rather possessed by an evil Spirit which makes them think and speak so highly and vain-gloriously of themselves and so contemptibly and uncharitably of others their Mouth speaketh great swelling Words having Mens Persons in admiration because of advantage These be they that separate themselves Sensual having not the Spirit Jud. ver 16.19 CHAP. VIII HAving said in the Conclusion of the former Chapter that J. Bunyan and his Party have not the Spirit to which they so much pretend I come now to prove this Charge against them from two substantial Arguments 1st Their Disobedience to their Lawful