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A93770 The reviler rebuked: or, A re-inforcement of the charge against the Quakers, (so called) for their contradictions to the Scriptures of God, and to their own scriblings, which Richard Farnworth attempted to answer in his pretended Vindication of the Scriptures; but is farther discovered, with his fellow-contradictors and revilers, and their doctrine, to be anti-Scriptural, anti-Christian, and anti-spiritual. By John Stalham, a servant of the great bishop and shepherd of souls, appointed to watch his little flock at Terling in Essex. Stalham, John, d. 1681. 1657 (1657) Wing S5186; Thomason E914_1; ESTC R203642 283,651 368

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with which we are mystically united and in asmuch as it was fulfilled in our Head it is ours as surely by imputation as if it had been possessed in and performed by our own persons 3. Lest R. F. should think I have neglected him to attend his Brother-contradictor let us hear what he saith to the Scripture I quoted for a bottom of that truth we maintain against all gain-sayers viz. That the Saints are not in all degrees perfected in Holiness till they dye or be dissolved * Page 15. As thou hast lyed of James who witnesseth purity as the Saints did so also hast thou lyed of the Apostle and those spoken of Heb. 12. 23. saying that the spirits that is souls separated as thou says from the bodies of just men made perfect in holiness which is at death or at the instant of dissolution when the spirit is separated from the body Rep. 1. Whether I belyed James Nayler or no will appear before where I have cleared the faithfulness and freedom of my Spirit 2. How James witnesseth purity we have heard and proved it not to be after the Scripture-Saints judgement who never went about after they knew Christs fulness and their own emptiness to bottom their Justification upon their Sanctification and establish a righteousness of their own which is said to be our own if it be materially inhercut What is our righteousness in us 3. How I have lyed of the Apostle and of those spoken of Heb. 12. 23. let it come to the tryal First I shall clear out and strengthen the Exposition of that place Heb. 12. 23. cleared in the last clause by the scope Secondly examine what R. F. hath against it or the truth thence deduced of sins continuance in the Saints till death First The Exposition I gave is cleared and strengthned partly from the Scope partly from the Grammatical sense of the words 1. The Scope of the Apostle is to press the exhortations and consolations preceding Ver. 5. That Christians should not faint under afflictions Ver. 12. That weaklings in grace may be encouraged Ver. 14. That peace and holiness be pursued Ver. 16 17. That by no means Saint-ship be undervalued and why all this because they are not under the Old Testament administration at mount Sinai Ver. 18. which was terrible but Ver. 22. under a New Testament condition which is amiable the more by reason of that holy and sweet communion which is now cleared out as with God Christ and Angels so with the Saints in heaven described by this Character The spirits of just men made Communion of Saints on earth with Saints in heaven perfect with whom we that are but weak in Faith and imperfect in Holiness have 1. A communion of right our grounds of right to heaven are as good and firm as theirs who are now in possession 2. Of Interest Saints departed are in living communion with that God and Christ in heaven with whom we have communion on earth 3. Of Praises Begun praises by the Saints on earth are echoed and resounded by the perfect Spirits in Paradise 4. Of will and desires They are doing the will of God perfectly and we as Saints are aiming endeavoring praying striving after that state 5. Of Hopes They hope for the perfection of their Bodies at the resurrection and we hope for the perfection of Soul at death and of our Bodies at the same resurrection day 6. Of Membership They are a part of the Church-Catholique and so are the Saints on earth fellow-heirs we are of the same inheritance children of the family c. Thus for the Scope 2. The words themselves carry their sense with them at Heb. 12. 23. cleared in the terms the first look By spirits cannot be meant Angels for of them he had spoken before And he addeth We are come to the spirits of men The word in Acts 23. 8. is used for souls separated The Sadduces say there is no resurrection neither Angel nor Spirit that is souls of men separated from the bodies to which yet they retain a relation for they held the soul dyed with the body others in our time as in Calvins say it sleeps with the body But the word Spirit notes out a living intelligent substance in action or sensible passion as the souls of them that were disobedient before the Flood in Noahs time are 1 Pet. 3. 19. called spirits in prison those are souls of wicked men made miserable these in our Scripture controverted are souls of just men while they were here in the body perfectly justified and at parting out of the body made perfect in holiness In that it is said Spirits made perfect it implyeth they were not in that sense perfect in the body as they are now out of it Here in life the Saints have 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a fulness of the Spirit comparatively in respect of what they had at first or that others have at present at death they have a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a final perfection as to a perfect freedom from the roots and remnants of sin and a fruition of as much inherent holiness as they are capable of Here the Lord findeth fault if our works be not perfect or filled up as the word * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth Rev. 3. 2. with acts and exercises of grace in all kindes but when we dye in the Lord then our works are perfect or finished * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in degrees and at an end The word for perfect in our Text to the Hebrew is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which comes of a verb * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that in its root * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth an end or the end therefore sometime put for death John 13. 1. To the end that is to the death he loved them And 2 Cor. 1. 13. I trust you shall acknowledge to the end i. e. to my death or yours or both When Christ was giving up the ghost and was ending the work of satisfaction with his life he cryed out It is finished * John 19. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 30. so shall we who have the first-fruits of the Spirit be then able to say with that clear conscience which now cannot in that maner and measure be exercised even as we give up our spirits into the hands of God now Lord the work of mortification and holiness is finished and not before The sense of the Scripture stands clear Secondly Let us examine what R. F. hath against it or against the Doctrine of sin's continuance in the godly till death Against the true meaning of the Apostle now cleared he excepteth * Page 16. Th●se that thou speaks of in Heb. 12. 22. did not say it should be at an instant of death when their bodies Heb. 12. 23. vindicated and souls parted that they should be perfected Rep. 1. I have had no revelations from them nor speech with Saints departed
given to the Prophets and Ministers of the Lord as that of the great woman or Lady of Shunem to the Prophet Elisha 2 Kings 4. 37. of bowing to the elder in years or hours scarce a quarter of an hour it may be was Esau born before Jacob yet he gives him the respect and honor of his Primogeniture Gen. 33. 3. of bowing to the rich as Ruth to Boaz Ruth 2. 10. of the wife to the husband as Bathsheba to David 1 Kings 1. 16. and 31. of the son to the mother as Solomon to Bathsheba 1 Kings 2. 19. These and many more if R. F. knowes and allowes not he disdaineth Scripture proof and testimony if he allowes why is the civil obeysance of the upper or lower part of the body head loins or knee denied to any such relations Blessed is he that condemns not in practise that which he alloweth in judgement or that disalloweth not in judgement that which the Scripture countenanceth and commandeth Yet we have not all that R. F. can say for himself and his companions 6. Where doth the Scripture say put off your Hats and flatter with your tongues Rep. Here again he would not seem to oppose the respect due to men but as it is done in a way of flattery which carriage is of all to be abhorred but dutiful honor may be given without dissimulation and if these men be perfect why are they no better examples The Quere about the Hat I have spoken to in the former Section The fifth Commandement requireth all tokens of civill respect and honor the putting off the Hat is a token of such respect Be curteous saith the Apostle 1 Pet. 3 8. put not off humanity by denying this piece of common civility Thou shalt rise up before the hoary head and honor the face of the old man and fear thy God I am the Lord Levit. 19. 32. If greater signs of honor then uncovering the head be required we are not to boggle at the lesser But 7. Saith R. F. Where doth the Scripture say respect the rich and dis-respect the poor Are you not partial c. Rep. Where do you finde any doctrine of this tendency delivered The Word would have poor and rich respected as God made them both his creatures Prov. 22. 2. And as he maketh poor and maketh rich himself will be magnified 1 Sam. 2. and yet his order set among men regarded As for respecting persons for self-ends and carnal considerations Let R. F. and every one look to his own heart and learn to be poor in spirit Let the Brother of high degree in the James 1. 9 10 opened world rejoyce in that he is made low in spirit Let the Brother of low degree in the world rejoyce in that he is exalted in Christ Degrees there are of Saints as Saints and Saints as men are capable of different degrees of estate and place in the world every one of them must know the place and station wherein God hath set him and demean or carry himself accordingly If any man think otherwise and teach it and consent not to wholesom words the words of our Lord Jesus Christ and to the doctrine which is according to godliness he is proud or a fool as 't is in the margent 1 Tim. 6. 3 4. knowing nothing doting about questions and strifes of words c. Let R. F. and his fellows read on and tremble lest they be branded and stigmatized with such Characters for their multiplied perverse Disputings and Scripture-contradictions 22. Head of their Scripture-contradiction Concerning Swearing Section 50. THey take up Christs words as I noted Mat. 5. 34. Swear not at all as they do other Scriptures against his meaning to fight against all Oaths before a Magistrate in any case upon any occasion And now comes forth R. F. * Page 23. and fights with his shadow Thou says he forbids Oaths onely by Creatures Heaven Swearing by Creatures forbidden Earth a mans head c. The same meaning hath James Chap. 5. 12. Rep. My words were plain enough to him that hath a minde to understand First said I which word first he leaves out he forbids oaths by creatures and I added Mat. 5 34 35 36. vindicated onely because the Lord doth onely there i. e. ver 34 35 36. make exception of Creatures Heaven Gods throne Earth his footstool Jerusalem the city of the great King the Head because thou canst not make one hair white or black R. F. * Page 24. returns me this non-sense for answer Here thou art a lyar of Christ and his words bear testimony against thee for he doth not forbid swearing by Creatures onely but he forbids swearing by all things else whatsoever for he saith Swear not at all neither by heaven nor by earth c. And he that swears not by heaven must not swear by what is contained in it and he that swears not by earth must not swear by what is contained in it Rep. The reason he gives why swearing by creatures onely is not here forbidden is because the Lord forbids swearing by all things else which is a reasonless reason for heaven and earth and the creatures contained therein are all but creatures and my assertion stands good That Christs words in the above-mentioned verses 34 35 36. of Mat. 5. do not absolutely inhibit all oaths before a Magistrate while he forbids onely swearing by creatures heaven and earth and all creatures therein I am aware of what Familistical Gods essence is not mixed with the Creatures conceits these men have of God and his Essence as mixt with the creatures and hereupon they may think that if creatures are not to be sworn by at all at any time in any case neither may we swear by the name of God at all at any time in any case But 1. Although Gods essence is where the Creatures essence is yet he is a most simple un-compounded Being and though he is in heaven and in earth yet he is not contained bounded or limited therein 2. Our Lords scope is to wipe and wash off the dusty Glosses of the Scribes and Pharisees which they had cast upon the glass of the Law and particularly concerning oaths for ver 33. you will finde it had been an old tradition they might swear by any thing so as they did not forswear themselves And again by comparing Chap. 5. with 23. 16. c. we finde how they distinguisht about oaths some were nothing they said or not binding as to swear by the Temple by the Altar c. but to swear by the Gold of the Temple or by the Gift upon the Altar that was a binding oath and made the man that swore a debtor and if he kept not his oath he was guilty Now against these and such like Glosses Christ opposeth with a prohibition I say unto you who am to be heard and believed before Pharisees Swear not at all that is neither by the Temple nor by