return to their own Land onely the drying up of the River may be a little the precedent work as if time would give leave I would shew you and that the gathering of the dispersed of Israel and bringing them into their own Land will be fully effected under the sound of the seventh Trumpet which by the Prophet Isaiah is called the great Trumpet because under his sounding greater things will be effected than under any of the sounding of the other six Trumpets and therefore see what the prophet Isaiah saith Isa 27.12 13. which is as followeth And it shall come to passe in that day that the Lord will heat off from the channel of * Chap. 11.15 16. Rev. 16.12 the River to the stream of Aegypt called the tongue of the Aegyptian sea and ye shall be gathered one by one O ye children of Israel and it shall come to passe in that day that the GREAT TRVMPET shall be blown mark that and they shall come which are ready to perish in the land of Assyria and the out-cast of the land of Aegypt and shall worship the Lord in the holy mountain of Jerusalem And thus having shewed what the second thing will be that will be effected in the time of the sounding of the seventh TRUMPET I come now to shew what will be the third thing effected at that time which is The Kingdomes of this world shall become the Kingdom of Christ and he shall take his great power and Reign Rev. 11.17 Do you know what is meant in these Petitions in the Lords Prayer Thy Kingdome come Thy will be done in earth as it is in heaven surely if you did you would understand the Prophets a little better than you do So that Christ is yet to have a Kingdome in this world or that the Kingdoms of this world is to become the Kingdoms of the Lord Christ under the sounding of the seventh Trumpet as aforesaid Rev 11.15 for the proof hereof read the words of John which saith And the seventh Angel sounded and there was a GRAET voice in HEAVEN saying the KINGDOMES of this world are become the KINGDOMES of our Lord and of his Christ and he shall reign for ever and ever From hence we see that although Christ would not be King on earth before his suffering yet afterwards he is to receive a kingdome to himself even the kingdomes of this world and that he will take his great power and reign and then according to the words of the Psalmist Psal 22.27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn to the Lord and all the kindreds of the Nations shall worship before thee for the kingdom is the Lords and he is the Governour amongst the Nations because of thy Temple at Jerusalem shall Kings bring presents unto thee Psal 68.29 and the kingdome and dominion and greatness of the kingdome under the whole heaven shall be given to the people of the Saints of the most high Dan. 7.27 whose kingdome is an everlasting kingdome and all dominions shall serve and obey him and Saviours shall come upon mount Zion and judge the mount of Esau Obed 21. and the kingdome shall be the Lords for he that overcometh will I give power over the Nations Rev. 2.26.27 and he shall rule them with a rod of iron Psal 149.8 9. and binde the Kings in chains and their Nobles in fetters if iron to execute upon them the judgment written Rev. 5.10 this honour hath all the Saints praise ye the Lord. From hence we may see the Kingdomes of this world is to become the Kingdome of Christ and his Saints and they shall reign upon earth But you say Page 36. 37. The Saints reign is to be understood spiritually as by prevailing with God in prayer and the like To which I answer and say it is as likely to be true as that the Kingdome of Syria is the fourth Monarchy or Kingdome but that it cannot be so understood is plain for as yet I never read that any one man governed or reigned over all Nations or reigned over them by his prayers although it might bring judgments on many places and people Jam. 5.17 as Elias did when he prayed and it rained not for the space of forty six months but what hurt did that do to Aegypt where it raineth not and did ever any one by his prayers binde his King or Nobles in fetters of iron but admit we might grant that there were an hundred did so yet it would not prove the matter but be too narrow unlesse you could prove every man in particular to do so for this honour shall every Stint have viz. to reign and the wicked to be as ashes under the soles of their feet there might be very much said to the confutation of this but I shall not play the coward to fight with that which is so decripped and not able to look truth or sound reason in the face but that Christ and his Saints shall reign together on earth is plain first because there is plain text of Scripture for it Rev. 21.1 2 3 4 5 6 7. as above written secondly the Tabernacle of God is to be with men mark that and the Lord Jesus is to descend Zach. 14.4 and his feet standing in that day upon the Mount of Olives Job 19.24 25 26 27. the confideration whereof did uphold Job in his troubles that he should see his Redeemer in the latter dayes upon the earth whom he should behold for himself and not another And wereas you say Page 38. Christ is gone to prepare a place for us and that we shall becaught up to meet him in the ayre and be ever with him To which I answer and say and first if we shall be caught up to meet him it argues plainly that he is coming to live or he with us otherwise we may not be properly said to meet him if he be not coming towards us Obj But if it should be said it is true The Lord will come to judgement possibly here on earth but not to reign here To which I answer and say If he do hold his judgement here that implies that he will reign here for he shall reign when he sits in judgement but we finde plainly in Scripture that there is a great work to do when Christ comes before he shall give the ultimate sentence in so much that the Apochalips saith it will be a thousand years if I should say that the new Jerusalem should for ever abide in the Land of Canaan The meek shal inherit the earth which â—s yet they do not and we ever remain in it you would not know how to disprove it for although the Text say that we shall be ever with the Lord yet it doth not say that we shall be ever in the ayre for although Christ shall be seen in the ayre with the Saints and Angels which
will be his glorious Army Mat. 24.30 Zach. 14.14 Exod. 1.11 Rev. 1 7. Zach 12.10 Joh. 19.26 yet it s plain he shall descend upon Mount Olivet and restore Israel and put the new earth into the possession of the meek from whence we never finde they shall return but Gods Tabernacle shall be with them there as before said and there is not one objection that I know of at present but may easily be answered Joh 14 1 2 3 and where it is said Christ is gone to prepare a place for us we know Christ tells us that in his Fathers house there is many mansions and therefore no great need of prepatation onely speaking according to mans capacity and so John saith Rev. 11.2 3 4 he saw it adorned as a Bride for her Husband and that house that Christ calls his Fathers house and that inheritance that Peter saith 1 Pet. 1.3 4 5 is reserved for us in heaven 〈◊〉 her but that new Jerusalem that shal I come out of heaven viz from above â—he clouds and be situated upon the new earth and so Christ will be the King and Governour of the whole earth at which time he will reconcile to himself a things both in heaven and earth and his will then will be done on earth as now it is in heaven Christs will shall be done in earth as it is done by Angels now in heaven so that every knee hath of things in heaven and earth at that time shall bow before him when there shall not be Lords many or Gods many but he onely Lord throughout all the earth and his name one onely we except him the which hath put all things under him but yet we ee not all things subdued under him for there are many that will not have him to reign over them and the last enemy which is death is not yet destroyed but I passe briefly to the next thing which is The heavens say you shall retain Christ till the restauration of all things and therefore Christ will not come untill the wicked be raised for say you shall the earth after it is restored be digged up and disaced for to raise the wicked To which I answer and say that such as you have you put into your book you erre and know not the Scriptures or the power of God cannot he who gives to every seed his own body after it is turned to dust a thousand years raise up such by his power without defacing the earth or putting the earth in an incapacity to bring forth her fruit after the manner of an earth restored or did you never read that the earth opened her mouth and swallowed up Korah and his company and yet closed her mouth again or hath not he that openeth the earth power to shut it again without defacing of it and did you never read that God took out one of Adams ribs Gen. 2.21 and closed up the flesh instead thereof and yet not Adam defaced or imperfect by it many such like instances might be added but the objection is not worth an answer and therefore I passe to the next thing onely take this by the way that is the Heavens are said to retain Christ till the TIMES of restauration and we know that the word TIMES in the plural number is taken for years as Nebuchadnezzar was to be turned out into the open field till seven TIME Dan. 4.23 had past over him meaning seven years so then the text may be read thus Acts. 3.19 The heavens shall retain Christ till the year of restauration the which being duly weighed and truely understood will teach us that the times or years of Christs reign will be the times or years of restauration and so I come to the next thing which is say you Satan was bound a thousand years Page 38 39 as not to hinder the propagation of the Gospel although he raised persecution against the professors thereof Answer what may I say to this peice of contradiction 〈…〉 hindred when the Professors thereof 〈…〉 to death if this 〈…〉 not the Gospels propagation know not what hindreth it but this is as likely to be true as the conversion of persons from a state of sin to a state of grace called the first resurrection for John in his vision saw all that had suffered under the Romish Babylon from Rev. 18. and all that had suffered under the great Antichrist to be alive again in the state of resurrection from the dead but the rest of the dead men lived not again til the thousand years were finisht and that this means a resurrection from the grave is plain because the Apostle saith that the dead in Christ shall rise first also John saith that when the thousand years are finished 1 Thes 4. Satan shall be loosed and gather God and Magog and then shall be the resurrection of the rest of the dead men according to the saying written And the sea gave up the dead that was in it and death and hell viz. the Grave delivered up the dead which was in them c. And again whereas you say John saw the souls and not the bodies of them that were beheaded in heaven with Christ To which I answer and say Gen. 46 26. it is said that there was above threescore souls came into Egypt with Jacob now did these souls come without bodies or is not the body or the individual man called the soul this you may read frequently in Scripture Hos ch 10 11 as in the book of Hosea and several other Scriptures And whereas you say that John saw their souls in heaven The text saith no such thing that John saw them in heaven but the text saith that John saw the souls of them that were beheaded and they lived From whence we learn that God shewed John the state of the resurrection of the just to be a thousand years before the resurrection of the wicked The dead in Christ shall arise from the dead a thousand years before the wicked for the rest of the dead men lived not again untill the 1000 years were filnished Rev. 20.6 7. and when Christ speaks of his coming and raising the dead and changing the living that live in him â—e saith that Two shall be in one bed the one taken and the other left and that this agreeth with Pauls words to the Thessalonians which saith the dead in Christ shall rise first iâ— plain because Christ adds this word also where the carkâ—se is thither will the Eagles be gathered all which sheweth that the dead in Christ shall rise first and John resolves the doubt that is how long the dead in Christ shall rise before the other dead men and that is saith he a thousand years for the rest of the dead men lived not again untill the thousand years are finished this is the first resurrection So then the resurrection spoken of by John is not to be understood
a resurrection from a state of sin to a state of grace but it s to be understood a resurrection from the Grave and the soul is to be understood the body or the entire man as the eight souls were saved by water in Noahs Ark. And whereas you say Page 39. that the new Jerusalem is not to be a material City according to the letter of the Scriptures because say you what City in the letter can have twelve foundations or Angels porters or gates made of pearl To which I answer and say it is somewhat strange to me to think that you do in very deed believe that God made the things that do appear by his word Let it be so and it was so and that he laid the foundation of the earth upon nothing and spread forth the heavens like a curtain and made those two great lights together with all the hoast of heaven Carnal men know not the mystery of the Kingdom and what they know naturally as bruit beasts even in those things they corrupt themselves onely by his word Let it be done and it was so it is strange that such carnals as you are do not question where God had materials enough to make the heavens and earth because you question how one pearl can be big enough to make a gate To which I say that he that made the heavens and the earth by the word of his power could have made it all of pearl if it had pleased him for there is nothing too hard for him to do therefore what he saith he will do let us not question how he can bring it about lest we see it and yet never enjoy it Again whereas you say Page 40 That the new heaven and earth and new Jerusalem may be taken for the Church in glory after the Jews conversion To which I answer and say that the new Jerusalem is not the Church is plain because the Church or Saints are to enter in through the the gates into that City and have their habitation there and walk in the streets thereof therefore the Church may not be taken for the new Jerusalem but it is to be a material heavenly glorious City the which now is the habitation of God and Christ or his Throne or Taberbernacle the which also at the time appointed shall descend upon the new earth and so the Throne or Tabernacle of God shall be with men and he shall dwell with them and thus the Lord shewed Iohn the form of the City and the manner how it should descend down upon the new earth in the which City the glorified Saints with the Lord shall dwell but without the gates shall be doggs and whoremongers and the like punished and although the whole earth shall be restored in the years of restauration yet after the ultimate judgement when Christ hath finished his reign and resigned up the Mediatorship and all government â—o the hands of God the Father when he shall be all in all 1 Cor. 15. then shall the Land of Canaan or Iudeah or Ierusalem which is one and the same although they differ in name be that new earth in which shall dwell righteousnesse agreeing with the words of the Prophet Esa 65.17 18 19. which saith Behold I create a new heaven and a new earth and the former shall not be remembred nor come into mind but be ye glad for behold I create Ierusalem a rejoycing and her people a joy and I will rejoyce in Ierusalem and joy in my people and the voyce of weeping shall be heard no more in her This will be accomplished in Ierusalem at the beginning of Christs reign although the condition with other places may be altered as Chaldea Aegypt and Edom and the like yet with Canaan it will not for Ierusalem shall abide a glorious blessed place for ever as I shall speak more to anon and at present I pass to what you say in page 41. which is an interpretation of the words of Isaiah which saith The lyon shall lye down with the lamb and the like which is meant say you the changing of our salvage nature and make us submit to his yoak Answer That this is a false interpretation any man that hath understanding may plainly discern because Christ saith iniquity shall abound and questions whether he shall find faith upon earth and also the Prophet shews that the people of God shall be very few like to the gleaning of the vintage and the whole world wandring after the Beast and such like expressions the Scriptures are full of which sheweth that there wil not be such a conversion as you vainly dream of but this trifle I shall speak no more to at present but refer the curteous Reader to take satisfaction from the Scriptures as to this and the like as you may find composed as to the proof of this matter in my former Treatise intuled Syons Redemption Read my Syons Redemption where you may finde that the lyons lying down with the lamb is literally to be understood and the objections answered discovered as you may read from page 153 to page the 163. And as to the next thing I say That those irrational creatures that are dead are already delivered from their groaning and labour and yet notwithstanding for ought that you have said every creature that hath groaned under his burthen and hath been sensible of misery may again he restored but I shall wave that discourse and come to your 42 and last page in which I take notice of your contradiction where you say That Saints are not like to meet with peace or quietnesss here below but trouble and persecution and yet you say immediately that There is a time before the end when the sea of troubles shall be no more So that he that hath not both the eyes of his understanding put out may see that you are in a gulf of darknesse groaping for the wall not knoâ—ing what you say nor whereof you do affirm I could wish that you knew even the glorious state of the Church which will be at the time that the Redeemer shall come to Zion and turn transgression from Iacob when all Israel shall be a holy people to the Lord you hâ—rp at something that will be brought to passe at that time but what you know not neither are you like to know so long as you lean upon men to go upon their legs and see with their eyes but I spare you and passe to the next thing which is Say you in opposition to the Saints enjoying the riches of the world God gave mount Seir to Esau To which I answer and say The Sts. shall not enjoy the riches of the world until Christ shall come in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory to put them in possession that to suppose that the Saints shall enjoy the riches of the world till the Kingdoms of this world are become the Kingdomes of Christ is but a
Church To which I answer and say that your word federately your matter intimated in it are far ferched consequences that the holiness spoken of in 1 Corinths 7. will not admit any to Baptisme the which if it would then the unbelieving Wife or Husband which is as holy as the Child ought to be Baptized and how far that is from truth I shall leave the Reader to judge but that the Text doth say that the unbeleever is Holy read it and you shall see to difference in the word Sanctification and Holiness in that place for Tindal readeth it thus Eâ—uxor infidelis sanctificata est inviso alioqui câ—rte liberi vestri improbri essent nunc autâ—m sanctisunt So that the word may be red the unbeleeving woman is Holy or hallowed to or by the man as well as sanctified but the holiness mentioned in 1 Cor. 7. is no other but a matrimonial holiness as I also have proved in my precedent treatise and so I pass and leave you to read your answer there Again you say God owned those children presented to him in Circumcision Ezek. 16.20 21. and called them his children To which I answer and say if you were demanded how you could prove that those children were Circumcised you would be much troubled to prove it for surely their Parents were not so careful to give heed to Gods Commands the which if they had they would not have offered their children to Molech which was fobidden and theresore Circumcised they were not doubtless and if they were prove it Exod. 22.39 Exod. 13.2 Nehem. 10.35 36 37. But you will say how cometh it to pass that God calleth them his children The answer is those that were offered up in the fire was the first born and the Lord before had commanded for himself all the first born and they are said to be Holy to the Lord and hence he calleth them his children yet take notice that I do not deny but God did own such as was offered to him in Circumcision but it doth not follow therefore that he will own such offered up in Baptism for he had commanded children to be Circumcised at eight dayes old and therefore good reason that he should own them but he never commanded children of eight dayes old to be Baptised and therefore it is a vaine conceit to think that God will own that which he never appointed Again you say That the premise under the Gospel is to Beleevers and their children by vertue of the Parents Faith Act. 2.39 Answer The Text doth not say that the promise under the Gospel is to beleevers and their children upon their Parents Faith surely your eyes be very dim or your understanding very shallow in looking on that place see the Text Act. 2.39 Repent and be Baptised every one of you and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit for the promise of the gift of the Holy Spirit is to you and your Children in their non-age are not heirs to the Holy Spirit and heaven by vertue of their Fathers Faith as you fondly conceit children and to all that are afar of even to so many as the Lord our God shall call Now I pray see doth this Text say that the Gospel promise belongeth to children of Beleevers upon their Parents Faith the text hath not such a consequence in it the meaning of the Text is briefly thus the Jews were pricked at the heart for Crucifying of Christ and desiring his blood to be on them their children the Apostle knowing that all sins should be forgiven unless that against the Holy Ghost saith to them not when they were beleevers but before they did beleeve Repent but as if they should say there is no hope of mercy if we should repent yet there is saith Peter for God hath promised to pour out af his Spirit in the last dayes upon all flesh and also on your children even on your sons and daughters and therefore your condition is not so bad as by you supposed nor your childrens but they shall receive the Spirit even so many of them as God shall call your wicked practice in Crucifying Christ hath not so far deprived you or them from mercy but if you or they obey the voice of Gods call he will give you or they after you the Holy Spirit therefore repent every one of you here is ground enough for you to repent and to be Baptised and gladly to walk in Christs wayes That promise Act 2.39 was the promise of the Holy Spirit and it was made to all upon condition of obedience and Faith and declared to those poor wounded Souls that they might have ground to repent and beleeve the Gospel and thus you see the Text saith the promise was to them before they did beleeve that they might have ground to beleeve and obey the Gospel and therefore this maketh not for beleeves seed being under a Gospel promise for these did not beleeve when the Apostle saith the promise is unto you but if the promise of the Spirit be made to all children upon their Parents Faith then every beleevers child most consequently have the Holy Spirit or otherwise God not so good as his promise but the promise in Acts the second is a general promise of the giving forth of the Holy Spirit to all flesh Jews and Gentilis Fathers and Children even so many as are the called ones of God but in my former Treatise I have shewed the reason why the Apostle maketh mention of their children in this Text and so refer you to that further to peruse and pass to the next thing the which is A chaâ—ge of evil on us in denying the children of Beleevers Church Priviledge To which I answer that in that particular your selves do lie under evill in denying children Church priviledges namely that priviledge of the Lords Supper the which of right belongeth to every member of Christs Church for they that were or are to be Baptised or to continue in the Doctrine of Christ in breaking of bread and prayer and Baptism is not properly a Church priviledge but that which is to be done without the Church and those priviledges that are properly accounted Church priviledges you do deprive children of and also when you write again resolve this question whether the Lords Supper of right do not belong to all that are Baptised unless they are cast out forsin and if so then clear your selves if you can of depriving children of Church priviledges but you may see this also is discoursed and answered in my former Treatise entituled Dagons Down-fall And so I come to the Examination of that cited place Mat. 28.29 Go disciple all Nations or make disciples all Nations and Baptize them to which you would have me read Iohn 4 1 2 3. the which is equivolent with the words in Mat. 28. the which is read thus When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had beard that Iesus made and
Heirs of Heaven I answer and say that little ones are heirs to Heaven I shall not deny for where there is no Law there is no transgression and where there is no transgression there is no punishment yet it doth not follow that they must be Baptised because Baptisme and Repentance and Faith is to break off sins committed personally that those persons might be heirs of Heaven and so that Ordinance properly belongeth to such as are not absolute heirs to Heaven I speak after the manner of men but to such as are penetent sinners that thereby they might be made heirs to Heaven but of this you may see more at large in my other Treatise these two things take notice of and so shall pass the first is that I do not conclude that Children are ever the better or nearer to Heaven because they are Children of Believers neither that others are nearer to hell because they are unbelievers children And secondly I do not believe and I know also you can never prove that those Children were the Children of Believing Parents Again you say Children are counted Disciples from Exod. 15 5 10. Why put ye a yoak on the Disciples nick meaning say you on believers and their Children To which I answer and say that they were not children that were called Disciples but Brethren and they were such as were capable to be delivered for the Text saith There were certain that came and taught the Brethren It cannot be proved that any of those that are called Disciples in the fifteenth of the Acts were children in non-age mark that that if they were not circumcised after the manner of Moses that is to observe the law of Moses they could not be saved and these are the very persons that the Apostle calleth Disciples in the tenth verse and you may see what they are forbidden in the twentieth verse the which she weth that they were not Children but you may see this also fully answered as beforesaid only take this by the way from whence you may see that Children of seven or eight dayes old or thereabouts cannot be Christs Disciples because Christ saith That he that denyeth not himself and taketh up his Cross and followeth him cannot be his Disciple the which a Child cannot do therefore cannot be Christs Disciple see Dagons Downfal and so I pass to the next thing which is say you That which is frequenty mentioned in the Law need not to be so frequently mentioned in the Gospel and what more frequent in the Ola Testament than Gods promise to be a God to them and their Seed your instances is that of the Sabbath say you The Sabbath being moral and perpetual and frequently commanded to be kept in the law need not to be commanded to be kept in the New Testament To which I answer and say and first that how you will prove it to be moral and perpetual I know not if you seriously read Heb. 4 3 4 you may see that the Seventh dayes Sabbath as it did look at the seventh year of Jubilee and the seven thousand years to be a general rest and release so it did type out our Rest from the servilty and bondage of the Law and sheweth that our Rest is already began in Christ so saith the Author to the Hebrews 4 3 4 5 For we which have believed do enter into rest as he said as I have sworn in my wrath if they shall enter into my rest although the work was finished from the foundation of the world for he spake in a certain place of the Heavenly day on this wise and God rested the Seventh day from all his works From whence you may see that the Seventh day is typical The Seventh days Sabbath not moral but typical and he is worthy to be stoned to death who contendeth for the Sabbath day under the Gospel and yet breaketh it by doing his own works your own practice denyeth the morality of the Seventh days Sabbath and indeed the day was typical doubtless and further let me tell you that I do not observe the first day by vertue of the institution of the Seventh day but I keep that day holy to Christs service upon another account and if you keep it upon the account of a Sabbath by vertue of the old institution then for the time to come learn to keep it in every particular so or otherwise you are condemned in the things that you allow And also in the second place where you say God frequently did say in the Old Testament that he would be a God to Abraham and his Seid and therefore no need to mention children in the communion To which I answer that whereas God saith He will be 〈◊〉 God to Abraham and his Seed if that be a Gospel promise then God doth not mean the children of the flesh of Abraham or of believers but thy Seed that is Christs which is such as are of the Faith of Abraham and so they that are faithful the same are counted the Seed of Abraham for it is not the children of the flesh that are the children of God for not unto Abraham and his seed thorow the Law was the promise Rom 4 13. made that he should be heir of the world but to his Seed that is by Faith and now the children of Christ are counted the children of Abraham and none are accounted the children of Christ upon a Gospel account but such as believe in him see some few texts of Scripture and so I shall pas to the third thing considerable in this particular see Rom. 9 7 8. Neither because they are the Seed of Abraham are they all Children but in Isaac shall thy seed be called that is they that are children of the flesh these are not the children of God but the children of promise are counted for the Seed and if ye are Christ then are ye Abrahams seed and heirs according to promise * Gal. 3.39 cap. 3.37 And as many as have bee Baptized unto Christ they have put on Christ * Gal. 3.39 cap. 3.37 For if they which be of the Law viz. the fleshly Seed and fleshly Covenant be Heirs Faith is made void and the promise of none effect But it is of Faith that it might be by grace Rom. 4 14. that the promise might be sure to all the seed and faithful persons are accounted he tru Seed see Gal 3 8 9. And the Scriptures foreseeing that God would justifie the Heathen thorow Faith preached before the Gospel unto Abraham saying in thee shall all Nations be blessed so then they which be of Faith the same are blessed with faithfull Abraham From whence you may see that your fleshly Covenant and your fleshly Seed is nothing but a meer scar-crow viz. a thing without life and so I pass to the third and last thing which is Although things have been frequently spoken in the Law if they are moral and perpetual they are also commanded
how could he without change hate him I perceive afterward God hated him Therefore in all likelyhood before he was born for Gods decree is positive and unchangeable he calleth things that are not as if they were Rom. 4.17 he saw him condemned before born for Gods decrees depends not on man How came Malichy to quote that place of Gen. 25 and Paul to quote both if not to one purpose Me thinks that when you urge Arguments your self and omit telling of stories of this and the other mans opinion I like to trace you and first to the first You say That if God should love Esau before he was born and hate him afterwards it argueth a change in God Answer First I shall prove that God doth hate such as he hath loved and secondly I shall shew how his decree runneth from the two excellent properties or attributes of God namely Justice and Mercy which are as I may say those main attributes upon which the other do depend although there be a sweet harmomy and correspondency between all God attributes but to the first assertion that is God hateth that which he hath loved and yet his decree unalterable God once loved the Angels but now hated them God did once love the Angels which now he hateth the which I thus prove If all that God created or made was very good and God alwayes loveth that which is good then God loved the Angels which now he hateth But all that God created or made was very good and alwayes loveth that which is good Ergo God once loved the Angels which now he hateth The Argument is undenyably true and not to be excepted against First I think no man will deny that God made the Angels and also that God being goodness it self could not make any thing evil God which is goodness it self cannot make any evil thing but all very good and that which is very good he loveth for when the whole Host of Heaven and earth was made loe it was all very good and if you should doubt whether God loveth all that is good the Scriptures will prove it also a principal of reason will teach us the same he that which is good loveth all that is of the same nature and God which is good cannot but love that which is good and of the workmanship of his own hands Again God wil not let that which is evil dwel in his presence but the Angels did dwel in his presence till they had made themselve evil by sinning against God and that the Lord loved the Angels before they sinned is clear the Text doth imply so much for if God spared not the Angels that sinned implying if God would have spared any that committeth sin it would have been the Angels which was such glorious creatures and in such a glorious estate but from hence we may learn what evil and misery sin purchaseth which might forewarn us from sin and also as I think we may be easily perswaded that God once loved them we may as well be perswaded that God now hateth them without using any Argument for doubtless God hateth such as he hath prepared the lake of fire and brimstone for the which is for fallen Angels and so I pass although I could say very much of the loins of Adam but because there is an usual objection viz That whom God loveth he loveth Object to the end although there be no Text saith so there is a Text that some draw it from John 13.1 2. written in John the which I shall read and answer the Text is thus read unto us Now when the Feast of the Passover The disciples that follow Jesus he loved to the end of his life when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father having loved his own which were in the world to the end he loved them Now you may see the Text doth not say that whom God loveth once he loveth them to the end but the Text she weth thus much to us that Jesus which was in the world with his disciples and his love was such to them that did abide with him that he was as one that served and this love and service to his disciples did not fail but as he loved those that forsook all and followed him at the first of his preaching so he loved them to the end that is the end of his life or being on earth and also tells them what they should do to abide in his love hereafter the which if they did his love would remain or otherwise they should be cut out of the true Vine as supersluous branches and therefore saith As the Father hath loved me so have I loved you continue in my love If mark that you keep my Commandements John 15.9 vers 1 2 3 4 5. ye shall abide in my love as I have kept my Fathers Commandements and abide in his love But if a man abide not in me viz. in my Commandements he is cast fâ—rth as a branch and withered 1 John 8 9 and men gather them and cast them into the fire and they are burned Therefore He that transgresseth and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ 1 John 2 28. hath not God Heb. 3.14 Chap. 10.38 but he that chideth in the doctrine of Christ hath both the Father and the Son Therefore saith the Apostle Little children abide in him that when he shall appear Ezek 33.13 you may have boldness before him at his coming For ye are made partakers of Christ 2 Pet. 3.17 Chap. 1 1â— if ye hold the beginning 's of your confidence stedfast to the end But if any draw back my Soul hath no pleasure in them For when I say to the righteous he shall surely live and not die if he turn from his righteousness and do that which is evil all his righteosness shall not be once mentioned unto him in the evil which he committeth he shall die and yet my wayes are equal Therefore beware least ye being lead away with the errour of the wicked fall from your own stedfastness but grow in grace add one vertue to another and so ye shall abide in my love and an entrance shall be administred into the Everlasting Kingdom And having thus answered the Objection the which meaneth He loved them to the end of his life and also shewing the way how they might for ever continue in his love I pass and come to the second thing which is That it doth not argue a change in Gods decree to love and hate one and the same person because the decree of God concerning men as touâ—hing Salvation or Reprobation respecteth not the person of a man but the quality of a man so that if God love and hate the same person it is not because God changeth but because man changeth and that God doth not respect the person but the quality I shall prove from Scripture And
before the time and we never read of any cast into that lake before the judgement day but I pass to the examination of what is said in way of contradiction the which is say you Sodom are new suffering the vengeance of eternal fire from Jude 7. your words are these Iude telleth us say you that Sodom and Gomorrah are suffering the vengeance of eternal fire that is now in misery now the former fire is out which destroyed their bodie Because I have not found you deal fairly with the Scriptures but have wrested them and said that which they say not I shall examine whether Jude 7. say as you say that Sodom and Gomorrah are suffering the vengeance of eternal fire and upon examination I do not find the word ARE in the Verse to that purpose for which ye bring it the Text doth not say they ARE suffering the vengeance of Eternal fire but the Text faith thus Even as Sodom and Gomorrah and the Cities about them in like manner giving themselves over to Fornication and going after strange flesh are set forth for an example suffering the vengeance of eternal fire Now you may see the Text doth not say they ARE suffering of eternal fire but the strength of you reason why they ARE now suffering in Hell is because it faith they ARE 〈◊〉 forth for an example Sâ—V FFERING the vengeance of Eternal fire and because the Text faith Sâ—V FFERING the vengeance that therefore they are now Sâ—V FFERING and in order to a clear answer consider these few things First whether the word Sâ—V FFERING in Scripture may not respect 〈◊〉 the preterperfecttence and not the present 〈◊〉 some place And Secondly whether it was the suffering of the Sodomites in the destroying of their bodies by that fire and brimstone that God rained on them from Heaven be that which is called the example And Thirdly Where you can find any other suffering mentioned that the Sodomites were under save that suffering mentioned in Gen. 19. and Recorded for an example Iude 7. And first to clear this thing see the word SUFFERING in some places of scripture respecteth the Preterfecttence Heb. 2.9 and not the Presenttence James 5.10 for Christs death is said to be a suffering of death a long time after he was dead and alive again and glorified at the right hand of the Father The word suffering sometimes respects not the presenttence but the preterimperfecttence the Prophets are said to be set out for an example of SUFFERING and of pâ—tience long after their Sâ—V FFERING was over so that the word Sâ—V FFERING is of no strength for you to build your conceit on and the Text in Iude doth not say as you said that they ARE suffering that word you put in to help you but it will not cover you And Secondly that it was the sufferings of the Sodomites bodies by that fire that came down from Heaven is evident because Iude faith that they are set forth for an example now if it be meant of the suffering of the Soulin Hell as you say then I pray what example is it for unusuall judgements are alwayes used for examples but it is no unusuall thing for the souls of ungodly to suffer in Hell now or hereafter according to both our opinions but to see God rain down Fire and Brimstone to destroy a Nation or City that is not usual but a remarkable judgement and therefore set forth for an example and such was that of Sodoms SUFFERING And Thirdly You can never prove any other suffering that was inflicted on Sodom but that on their bodies the which if you can I shall wait on you to see it and so shall pass taking no notice of your Authors supposing that they may possibly be as ignorant as your self And whereas you say in your twentieth page that Jude tells us that they are now suffering I say you do not almost but altogether give the Scripture the lye for the Text doth not say that they ARE now suffering but you say that if the Devills now suffer in hell then it is also plain that Sodom suffereth in hell but you would prove one if you could and include the other that the Devil is not in torments is plain Why art thou come to torment us before the time peradventure you will say that they were not in the depth of torments but you will say they were in some the which I deny that they were in any torments onely cast out of Heaven First The Devil not in Hell viz. the lake which is the second death for then they could nor compass the earth and come before the Lord the which they did because if they had been in hell viz. the lake that they shall in future be put in then they could not have walked to and sâ—o in the earth nor appeared before God when the Sons of God met together for there is such a gulf that they that are there cannot come before God and when once they come there they shall not have their liberty to walk to and fro but shall be tormented day and night in the lake of Fire and Brimstone and as yet they are called the Prince of the aire and the god of this World but they shall be cast down into the earth and also bound a thousand years and afterwards loosed again before they be cast into that Lake and whereas Peter faith that they were cast down into hell and reserved unto the judgement of the great day I Answer Psal 16.10 Exod. 2.27 and 3.1 Jona 2.2 Isa 5.14 Hell in Scripture is taken several wayes sometimes for the Earth and sometimes for the Sea as Ionah cryed to the Lord out of the belly of Hell the which is meant the sea or the Whale take it which way you please and sometimes it is taken for captivity and whereas you cite the Greek word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hell is variously â—aken see Mat. 5.29 and ca. 10.28 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 it may be read hill or valley or dale it will not so fully prove the matter as you seem to suppose because if we consider that high place that they did enjoy and the place in which they were cast that is to say without the gate it might fitly be called a deep place or hell and yet not be in that Lake which is the second death no they were reserved in chains to receive their torments at the great day of judgement that is their time as they well know and not before therefore they believe and tremble to consider of their day that is coming and again you conclude that children are guilty of the second death because that Iohn saw small and great stand before God to be judged a very poor reason are all that stand before God to be judged guilty of the second death then all the godly are guilty of the second death for we must all appear before the judgement seat to give an
tell the truth and what am I become your enemy because I tell you the truth receive fools gladly for as much as you are wise and remember there was a time in which you were a fool if you are yet grown wise And thirdly I am hot troubled because you call me Asse because an Asse is an innocent usefull creature and doth his master better service than a lasie slumbring Dogg that loveth to sleep and yet is greedy to seek gain at his quarters moreover I have once read that an Asse could see better than his Rider by which he reproved the folly of his Master but no more of this a word to the wise is sufficient but I shall try the next thing which is a question you ask say you Is not our Ordination good we had imposition of hands by the Ministers Answ It is not the imposition of hands in Ordination that I question but the lawfull subject who is to have hands laid on him and the lawful Presbyter and the like that is the thing which will be questioned in its time and place Page 27. And again whereas you say that It is in the Presbyters power and not in the Churches to appoint their Ministery for say you Paul left Titus in Creet to ordain Elders there and it is the same word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is used in Act. 7.10 where it is said the King of Aegypt did appoint Joseph Governour over Aegypt the which power say you was conceived to be in the King and not in the people To which I answer and say and first I know that a proud generation of men would willingly reign as Lords and would be masters to such as they ought to be servants to and exclude the Church in their Election or Ordination although they will not excuse the Church in donation so that one month in a year viz. harvest the Priest will make the people believe that he is their servant but eleven months he will be their master but this by digression and so to the matter which is you say It is in the Presbyters power and not the Church to appoint who shall be their Minister the reason is because say you Pharaoh did appoint Joseph to be Governour over Aegypt as supposed without the peoples consent and it is the same word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is used by Paul to Titus To which I answer what although the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to signifie Ordination or appointment will it therefore follow because it is supposed that Pharaoh an heathen King did appropriate such power and authority to himself as to appoint a Governour without the peoples consent that therefore Paul dâ—d license Titus so to do or did Paul appoint Titus to be a second Elius over the Church a very pretty comparison as you think or strong reason to prove that Titus did Lord it over the Church to appoint what Governours he pleased because Pharaoh the heathen King did so as it is supposed and know ye not what our blâ—sled Saviour saith That the Princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them and they that be great exerciseth authority over them but it shall not be so amongst you but who so would be great amongst you Mar. 20.26 let him be your minister viz servant or under servant 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from Mat. 20 26 27. as from the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and he that will be chief amongst you let him be your servant From whence we may learn that Christ doth not appoint unlesse in Churches such authority to sit as Lords amongst them but to walk humlby and self-denyingly as to be an example to the flock and moreover we finde the Church of Antioch did ordain Paul and Barnabas by imposition of hands and yet no Presbyter there that I find neither was Paul and Barnabas called Apostles before they were ordained and indeed the power lyeth originally in the Church as faith our Saviour If thy brother sin against thee tell him of his fault between thee and him and if he refuse to hear thee then take another with thee and if he refuse to hear you tell the Church and if he neglect to hear the Church let him be as an heathen or a publicane for whatsoever ye binde on earth in the plurall number mark that shall be bound in heaven From whence we may see that the power lyeth originally in the Church Finally God hath appointed the Church as in reference to have officers for choice and approbation and the Presbyters to appoint by prayer and laying on of hands as for charge and designation and thus they are to go hand in hand in that work as may further appear from the Apostles words to the Church at Jerusalem saying Chuse out amongst your selves men of honest report whom we may appoint or give charge over that matter Act. 6.3 So then if he that is but to take care of the body must not be imposed on the Church without their choice much lesse may there be a man imposed on them which is to take care and watch over their souls without their choice and approbation I might say very much to this but I passe briefly to the next thing which is say you Although we were in Rome and came through it yet we are now separated from their Ceremonies Page 27. and walk according to the rule of Gods word and pray did not our Saviour come from Adam through sinful lines Answ To which I answer and say That whereas you say that although you came through Rome or were in Rome yet you are now separated from the ceremonies thereof to which I say I do believe that you are separated from some of Romes Ceremonieis as may be compared to Anise and Cummin and the like but the fundamentals you stil practice and uphold that is your Ordination is from them and you in your Ordination are made a petty Pope by them witnesse your absolution of sins Although you suppose that you are separated from Rome yet you stand in her authority and own her doctrine that is they in your Ordination appoint you to forgive men their sins they that doubt of the truth of this may read the Book of Ordination of the National Ministery the which will shew them the truth of what I have said and secondly you practice and uphold that Ceremony of Baby-Baptism which was confirmed by Pope Innocent the third as was granted by one that was better read in the Fathers as I verily judge than your self but this by the way for it is both in the Articles of your faith and your I evident that Infant-Baptism that you are not separated from Romes Ceremony for first you do declare in the Articles of your faith that Christ did descend into hell and some of you have cited the Text in Peter 1 Pet. 3 19. which saith he went and preached to the