Selected quad for the lemma: heaven_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
heaven_n	angel_n	earth_n	see_v	8,817	5	3.6156	3	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A67026	The true originall of the soule proving both by divine and naturall reason, that the production of mans soule is neither by creation nor propagation, but a certain meane way between both : wherein the doctrine of originall sinne, and the purity of Christs incarnation, is also more fully cleared then hath been heretofore published / by H.W. B.D.	Woolnor, Henry, d. ca. 1640.; Palmer, Elias.	1641 (1641)	Wing W3526; ESTC R15696	103,271	336

to know how the soule is made before it is when we cannot conceive what it is after it is made For albeit we know it is a spirituall substance truly subsisting yet what manner or metaphysicall matter it is impossible for any man to conceive Nor seeing we doubt not but that we have soules though we know them not and are no whit troubled that we doe no● know them why should we doubt or thinke i● strange because we cannot 〈…〉 their originall which 〈◊〉 ●●●s be harder than the ●●●er Reasons why the S●●les originall cannot perfectly be known 〈…〉 ignorance should more trouble than the know 〈◊〉 ●ill 〈◊〉 is good if reason 〈…〉 sa●●●ed with reason I 〈◊〉 make 〈◊〉 appeare tha● 〈◊〉 ●ot onely reasonable so to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●mpossible it should be oth●●wise For first there is no perfect knowledge to be had of any thing in this life Whatsoever hath any being hath s●●h a secret de●●●dance on God the first ●●ing as no man is able to c●●●●end And if it be so in those things w● 〈◊〉 best known un●●● 〈◊〉 m●●h more must it ●●●●●s 〈◊〉 in those things whi●●● 〈◊〉 ●●●ye least knowledge of Secondly the soule is a spirit and spirits are ever more difficult to judge of than corporall substances not being subject to sense as anon we shall see Thirdly the soule is an incompleat spirit being but part of a creature And therefore more difficult to be knowne for as is the thing knowne such is our knowledge of the thing if that be imperfect our knowledge is imperfect also and therefore by like reason the soule being an incompleate spirit we can have but an incompleate knowledge of it Fourthly this question concernes the existence of the soule Now the existence of any thing is harder to know then ●he essence and consequently ●hose questions that concern the ●xistence are more difficult then ●hose that concerne the essence And therefore if it be impossible ●or us in this life perfectly to know the essence of the soule it must needs be so much the more impossible to know the originall What knowledg men have of spirits And to make yet this more plaine to every mans apprehension let us a little compare the faculty of knowing with the nature of the things to be knowne For as the consideration of the faculties of spirits doe not a little helpe to finde out their natures so by the nature of the soule we shall better judge of this faculty of understanding And first touching the whole man we know that man is a mixt creature consisting of two natures soule and body which are sweetly united to make up one compleat creature The body indued with senses to receive the images of all corporall things and the soule furnished with a faculty of reason which apprehēding those images doth discourse and draw consequents from them according to its own ingenerate principle of reason whereby it gets Knowledge of causes and effects which sense cannot attaine unto This being the onely naturall way of mans knowledge Hence it commeth to passe that when we come to discourse of spirituall natures the knowledge of which lyes not through the senses but is gotten onely by the rationall power or force of reason that is in man We are put out of our naturall accustomed way and so being halfe lost wee wander in uncertainties without any perfect knowledg or such as might content the nature of man And this I take to be one reason why we are so dim-sighted in spiritu●ll things The soules knowledg of it selfe Againe to come more close●y to the nature of the soule we know that whatsoever excel●encies are in inferiour natures are much more and much more perfectly in those that are superiour Whence it is that the perfections of other creatures are much more perfectly in man and chiefly in the soule of man And those vertues which are in mens soules are after a more excellent manner in Angels and all perfection most perfectly of all in God Now as their natures are so also are their faculties and therefore in like manner the knowledge of inferiour natures is comprehended by the superiour but never the superiour by the inferiour I meane properly and naturally For because the soule knowes by certaine spirituall Ideas or abstracted species which being grossely taken from the senses are perfected by degrees as they come neerer the soule hence it is that the knowledg of things according to the manner of out knowledge is a more intellectuall apprehension of them and so of an higher nature than the things themselves that are knowne Whence it appeareth that it is impossible for the soule to know it selfe properly or perfectly yea of so well as it can inferiour natures If it be said if the soule be thus ignorant of it selfe how then doe men know Angels both men and Angels God being superior natures First Although the soule cannot know it selfe 1. Reflexion according to that proper and naturall way of knowledg whereby it knoweth other things yet it knoweth it selfe by reflexion that is by beholding its owne image in the effects as it were in a glasse but this knowledge is but a shadow in comparison Secondly I answer the soule knoweth Angels 2. Comparison and both men and Angels God two wayes First by the inferiour secondly by the superiour it selfe By the inferiour so by consequents of reason drawne from sensible things we conceive something of spirits both our owne soules and Angels and by the image of God in his creatures we conceive something of him also But especially we know the superiour by the superiour it selfe 3. Infusion And so both men and Angels know God by union with him that is by the working of his holy Spirit abiding in us of which nature is that immediate vision of God which the Angels injoy in heaven and the Saints somewhat taste of on earth To know that which knowes impossible By this which hath been said it appeareth that properly to know that by which it knows is impossible for any creature because to know that is to be above it selfe and to have that which it hath not This therefore is proper to God alone whose essence and knowledge is both one and all other natures by the superiour comprehend the inferiour As for example we see in the senses for as the sense is so is the understanding the eye sees but it cannot see that it sees Beasts know but they know not that they know they know by sense those things that ate inferiour and subject to sense but how they know that is by sense cogitative the highest perfection of their nature they know not For that is to be comprehended by a higher perfection that is by reason and thereby indeed men know how they know but how they know that even themselvs doe not know otherwise then by the effects and by way of reflexion but the thing it selfe that is the essence of

whereof it was first made so the soule returnes to God from whom it first came but that was immediately from Adam so therefore is this The next proofe is taken from the words of God by the Prophet Isay 5. Isai 57.16 I will not ever contend with man for the spirit will faile before me and the soules which I have made which some doe thus expound If I should straightly marke what is done amisse and severely punish your sinnes then not onely the bodies which yee have received from your parents but even the soules which I have immediately created and infused into your bodies would also perish but who seeth not that there is more in the exposition than in the Text. If indeed this were a truth manifest in the Scripture it might happily be so understood but this being the thing we question ought first to be proved which cannot be from this place for the word translated soule signifieth breath 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and somtimes any creature that hath breath and so the meaning is those whom he made to live and breath would faile and dye which the soule cannot doe and therefore it cannot he meant of that Neither would it follow that because he made them therefore he made them immediately of nothing and so the question remaineth still unanswered Againe 6. Ezek 18.4 God saith by the Prophet Ezekiel Behold all soules are mine c. But is little to the purpose for here by soule is meant the whole person for so it followeth in the next words The soule that sinneth shall dye What shall the soule only be punished and not the whole person rather Besides if every soule be created of nothing because it is Gods then so should the body be for that also is his There is yet another place alledged out of the old Testament 7. Zach. 12.1 to prove this which as it seemes to me is clearly against it namely that of the Prophet Zachary where it is said Thus saith the Lord which stretcheth forth the heavens and layeth the foundations of the earth and formeth the spirit of man within him if it be formed by the Lord then not by man say some But that followes not for it may be by both And therfore Augustine well answereth it is not denyed but God formeth every mans soule but the question is whereof whether of the substance of the parents soules or of nothing But it is objected that the scope of the place is to comfort the Church by setting forth the omnipotent power of God Be it so if then we admit an immediate act of Gods power herein which I graunt the scope of the place is answered and yet the soule not immediately created Againe it is manifest the two former sentences have relation to the first creation for God doth not now either stretch forth the heavens or lay the foundation of the earth and therefore why should not the latter also seeing it is apparent he created the first soule immediately of nothing but wee doe not reade that he created ever any other so since Lastly it is to be noted that the text saith not the Lord createth but the Lord formeth the spirit of man c. and where did ever forming signifie creating of nothing de hoc postea To this purpose 8. Ioh. 5.15 though to small purpose some doe also produce that saying of our Saviour My Father worketh hitherto and I worke as if by this working he meant the daily creating of soules but his meaning was not in the creatiō of new things but in the preservation of the old and not so much in the preservatiō of nature as in the propagation of grace For indeed it is not the government of the world but the regiment of the Church that our Saviour speaks of in that place not ordinary operations in the course of nature but miraculous workes in the promulgation of the Gospel as the words both before and after doe manifest And though it be true that God and Christ too being essentially one doe cause all these things that are done naturally for he is the Author of Nature yet he is not properly said to worke that which nature worketh because he is therefore said to rest because he hath committed these things unto nature Some also would seeme to wring it out of the words of the Poet Aratus 9. Acts 17.28 cited by St. Paul Wee are the off-spring of God For such weak proofes as these must serve where better is wanting which poverty does indeede more weaken and discredit the case than any way confirme the same For his meaning is onely that wee are of a divine nature by reason of that spirituall and immortall soule that is in us but how wo come by it whether by creation or propagation neither did Paul here purpose to speake nor the Poet ever dispute But most of all 10. Heb. 12 9 and most worthily of all is that of the Apostle to the Hebrewes urged and indeed almost all the rest have no inference at all to the purpose and this no necessitie nor as we shall see no just probabilitie the wards are these If wee ●ad Fathers four bodies that corrected us and wee gave them reverence shall wee not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits and live Whence they collect that earthly parents propagate the body onely and God creates the soule of every man immediately But for Answer Answer first of all Beza whose judgement is i. e. is to be reverenced rendreth the sense of this place thus If all men yeeld this right to naturall parents to whom next to God we owe this life that they may rightfully correct their children shall we not be much more subject to our heavenly Father who is the Author of our spirituall and everlasting life And indeed what els can be the meaning For if in the next place we consider the scope it is to perswade to the patient suffering of afflictions and not to teach the originall of the soule Againe if wee examine the words we shall finde that the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 flesh for so it should be translated and not bodyes cannot be meant of the body without the soule for parents doe not correct a carkasse Secondly the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of spirits is not to be understood of a soule without a body for God is the father of mens bodies too and not of the soule alone and lastly the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 chasticers as the parents are called signifies such a chastisement as when instruction is joyned with correction but there can be no such correction of the body without a soule a castigation being of an understanding man and not of a body onely and as the word so the Antithesis makes it apparant that the Apostle in this place makes mention of a twofold castigation the one carnall the other spirituall so that not soule and body

the soule the soule it selfe cannot properly know Every nature as it is more excellent proves it selfe and the inferiour Yet we must know that we know our soules better then beasts doe themselves and no doubt Angels themselves better than we doe our selves and God who is above all knoweth himselfe absolutely and perfectly Why God knows all because his nature is of that height that essence and knowledge in him are all one Thus we see the reason why GOD onely can perfectly contemplate himselfe every other creature as it comes nearer to his nature can thereby contemplate it selfe and those which are inferiour And hence it is that man who is a creature cansisting of soule and body Why man knows not all secrets of nature can by his soule cōtemplate elementary natures but for as much as his soule is also united to a body which is part of himselfe he cannot perfectly know the secrets of nature even in these corporall things Whence no doubt it is that a man may find His reason non-p●ust in so many workes of nature But the Angels being altogether of aspirituall nature may have perfect knowledge of these inferiour natures I meane as they are in themselves not as they are virtually in God for so he onely knowes them perfectly and yet they cannot perfectly contemplate themselves Why Angels cānot know our thoughts no nor our soules neither because they also are spirituall like them And hence also it may well be that Angels cannot know mens thoughts as is manifest in the Scripture Much lesse then can man have any perfect knowledge of his soule Why man not knowing his soul much lesse the originall and much lesse the Originall No although he were not joyned to a body unlesse he had another spirituall nature above the soule yea above Angels by which hee might looke downe upon it and so discerne all those difficulties which now he cannot comprehend Even as by these soules we can looke downe upon inferiour creatures and judge of elementary creatures in the world For as love so knowledge doth descend and therefore if we had such superiour soules yet then we should find as much difficulty in them also Here therefore it is to be noted● that no nature excepting Gods can know it selfe perfectly so neither properly but as it were by way of reflexion For even as the eye though it beholdeth all other things yet it cannot see it selfe unlesse in a glasse so we cannot know our owne soules but as it shewed it selfe in the workes as in a mirro●● so that as by it wee know other things so by other things we come to the knowledg of it which must needs be an imperfect shaddow and indeed not so much as a shaddow of perfection And herein it beareth the image of God in a speciall manner who cannot be known properly but only by his creatures rather what he is not then what he is So that as it is proper to him alone who is the perfection of all natures to know all things so he only can properly and perfectly know both them and himselfe How far the soules Originall may be knowne Some perhaps will say if it be a thing that cannot be knowne then it is in vaine to enquire after it I answer that though the knowledge of the soule be very difficult especially the originall of it and though it be impossible to know it perfectly and so properly as we know other things for the reasons abovesaid yet there is a competency and such as may give reasonable satisfaction to our nature to be attained and therewith we ought to rest contented For though we can see no reason yet if we see reason why we should see no reason reason it is we should be content without reason CHAP. III. Diversitie of opinions about the nature and the originall of the soule Strange conceits about the soule THE truth of this ignorance will farther appeare and also farther the point in hand if wee shall consider the many strange opinions that have been in the world concerning the anture and originall of it 1. Aristotles opinion First Aristotle that Prince of Philosophers who being ignorant of the Creation held that the world was eternall did also maintaine that soules have been from eternity but yet propagated from parents to children the soule being in the seed potentially though not actually but whether it were mortall or immortall as himselfe was not certaine so his writings are very doubtfull yet rather concluding that it was howbeit the first creation of nothing is denied flatly by him and all his followers Somewhat more tollerable than this because it hath some resemblance of truth is the fable of the Poets that Prometheus 2. Poets made the first man of the slime of the earth and being beloved of the gods and sometimes taken up to heaven he there saw the caelestiall Orbes to live and move by fire whereupon he made bold to steale some of the heavenly fire to enlive his body and so informed it with a living soule whence it seemes came that opinion that soules were made of caelestiall fire Others againe held that Angels made all mens soules of spirit and fire 3. That Angels made them of this mind was Seleucus and long before him all Carp●crates was of opinion that they made the whole world Also so Menander and others 4. Of his own substance Others say God made them of his owne substance as Priscillianus Serve●●us and their followers 5. Of the soule of the world But as touching the matter most of the other Philosophers were of opiniō that soules were bred of the soule of the world which they imagine to be a caelestiall substance or quint-essence of which they say the starres are made and so are incorruptible and immortall even as the body is corruptible and mortall being compounded of the elements 6. Hypocrat Notwithstanding Hippocrates thought that the soule was ingendred of the heat or vitall spirits or els of the harmony of the whole body or to speake plainly it was he could not tell what 7. Galen That famous Physitian Galen also held it to be either an aeriall body more then the elements or els not corporall and yet carried by the animall spirits as by a chariot 8. Plato Plato and his followers maintaine that all soules were at first bred in heaven of the divine nature and dwelt here being indued with excellent sciences and vertues but afterwards descending from thence into mens bodies as into stinking prisons they are corrupted and forget all their former knowledge and when afterward by study and instruction those caelestiall sparkes are againe kindled in them they doe onely recall or call to mind those things which they knew before in heaven And farther they affirme that if by vertuous living good workes or some other kinde of purgation after they are seperated from their bodies for which cause it is