himselfe yet they obstinately maintaine the contrarie and that oft times against the feeling of their owne consciences withholding the truth in vnrighteousnesse and shutting their eyes and eares against this admonition of the Apostle S. Paul in his second Epistle to the Corinthians chap. 13. vers 8. That wee cannot doe any thing against the truth but for the truth Which Truth although that in these latter daies it is represented vnto vs more cleerer then euer it was yet notwithstanding of many it is vnknowne and abandoned which follow on apace the foolish deuotion of their blind leaders and who to please and obey them rather then our Soueraigne Doctor and Master Iesus Christ will not vouchsafe to take so much paines as to informe themselues of this truth by reading of the holy Scripture but like better to depend wholly vpon the Traditions of their Teachers despising through their voluntarie ignorance the exhortatioÌ„ which the Apostle S Iohn giueth vnto al Christians in his first epistle 4. vers 1. Dearely beloued beleeue not euery spirit but trie the spirits whether they are of God for many false Prophets are gone out into the world Now the more furiously the Truth is assaulted by Satan and his slaues so much the more couragiously ought it to be maintained and defended by the zealous louers of pure religion but especially by the Ministers and Pastors of the holy Gospel who according to that rule which the Apostle S. Paul prescribeth them in his Epistle to Titus 1. 9 ought to employ themselues diligently to exhort with wholesome doctrine those which are willing to bee instructed and to improoue the gainsaiers I then being called by God into the labour of his holy Ministerie haue employed my self amidst you according to that talent which it hath pleased him to bestow vpon me for the space of sixteene yeeres on these two parts of my vocation and hauing respect to the multitude and sufficiencie of my predecessors who haue taken penne in hand to instruct the ignorant and to refute false Teachers by their writings I haue contented my selfe hitherto to follow their traces in my publique Sermons and priuate Conferences with such as were desirous to profit with me in knowledge of the fundamentall points of our Christian faith according to the occasions which were presented But of late hauing seene an Epistle written by a certaine Doctor of the Augustins Order touching the inuocation of Saints sent vnto one of my Auditours to seduce thereby the sheepe which our Soueraigne Shepheard Iesus Christ hath recommended to me I held it my dutie to returne it backe againe to Leige with my answere to satisfie the desire of one of his disciples by whoÌ„ the said Doctor hauing receiued my answere promised him that shortly after he would write back vnto me againe and that effectually But seeing there are almost two yeeres past since he held my refutation and that in all y â— time he could not make some small Treatise to fulfill and accomplish his promise his silence maketh me to thinke that he hauing considered well examined and weighed the arguments of my replie hath repented himself for his foolish boasting and that if his conscience be not â—eared he feeleth himselfe alreadie checked by the truth that shineth in my Refutation which in the meane time I haue amplified and now published with his Epistle following the counsell of some excellent learned personages with hope that I shall see it bring foorth some fruite if not in the abouesaid Doctor or in some of his obstinate scholars yet at least in such as are teachable and especially in you my most deare and worthie brethren of whom I haue conceiued this hope that whereas heretofore ye haue willingly heard me to entreat of this subiect aswell in my Sermons as in my familiar discourses with you so ye will now take no lesse delight in hearing me to discourse of it in this small booke which here I present you as appertaining vnto you by a double right For first of all being consecrated to your seruice from the beginning of my ministerie the proprietie of euery instruction which through Gods grace I propound vnto men is wholly yours Besides seeing that the intention of my dispute is to shew the difference between a true and a false adoration and to perswade euery man by all possible meanes to stand fast in the true and to reiect the false to whom could I better appropriate it then to you to whom aboue all things I am bound to teach the first point and fruit of our faith which is to worship God the Father of our Lord Iesus Christ in spirit and truth and to call vpon none but him in our necessities Whereunto as I seeke to giue you some helpe by this present Treatise so doe I giue thankes to the Lord for that alreadie ye are so well grounded and instructed in this principle of true religion assuring my self that he which hath sowne this good seed in your soules wil make it abundantly to grow vp and to fructifie in such a sort that thereby his name shall be glorified your neighbour edified and your hearts fortified against all manner of tentations Finally if I perceiue that this small Treatise which I publish vnder your names be acceptable and pleasing vnto you your courtesie will serue as a spurre to pricke me more cheerfully forward in my commenced Career and one day hereafter to entreat more at large vpon this subiect through the grace of our blessed God and heauenly Father to whom I recommend you beseeching him with all my heart that it will please him most deare and worthy Brethren to maintaine you euen to the end in the profession of his truth and to replenish you with his temporall and eternall blessings for the aduancement of his glorie and the saluation of your soules From my Studie this 4. of August 1607. Your no lesse affectionated then seruiceable Pastor and brother in the Lord Iohn Polyander A small Table of the principall points contained in this Treatise FIrst Papists themselues acknowledge and confesse that the inuocatioÌ„ of Saints cannot be proued by Scripture pag. 18 Praying to Saints cannot be prooued by Scripture but absolutely disproued 19 We must call vpon God only not the Saints 19. 20. 21. 22 Christ is our only Mediatour the Saints are no Mediatours pag. 22. 23 Christ is our only Mediatour aswell of intercession as redemption 23 Saints are no Mediatours of redemption 25 Papists reiect Christ placing the Saints in his place 26 Papists exalt the Virgin Mary into the place of Christ. pag. 29. 30. 31 Papists place the Virgin Mary aboue Christ. 32. 33 The Papists place Franciscus Dominicus in Christs roome 34. 35. 36 Priests and Prophets may erre 38 The Church may erre 38. 39 Councels haue erred 39. 40. 41. 42. 43. 44. 45 Variance and contradiction among the ancient Councels 46 The holy Scripture is the touchstone of doctrine 47 The Fathers haue
and in what manner they may heare your Prayers and Supplications For to build the first point you lay downe two Articles and principles most false The one That this hath alwaies beene the doctrine of the Christian Church to say and teach that this was a thing more then reasonable and most profitable to man to inuocate the Saints yea that the Church hath taught the same for the space of 1605 year unto this day The other How certaine Heretikes which are sprung vp within this fortie or fiftie yeares haue meant to preach and teach the cleane contrarie to wit those whom you call Lutherans and Caluinists who but a few yeares ago endeuoring to â—uerthrow so auncient a doctrine according to your opinion haue said and say still that we must not call vpon any of the Saints but vpon God onely I say that your first foundation is false because as Eckius one of your principall Doctours plainely confesseth in his booke of the worshipping of Saints that it is impossible for you to alledge one onely text either out of the old or new Testament whereby you can prooue that either Christ his Euangelists or Apostles haue commanded vs to adore the Saints or haue recommended this seruice to vs as very profitable or reasonable Also Petrus à Scoto confesseth that the inuocation of Saints is not taught in the bookes of the Prophets and Apostles but is there insinuated And likewise some of the Iesuits say that it is not manifestly represented in them but obscurely and mystically or by certaine consequences which are pretended and not well grounded And for this cause the Councell of Trent recommending it vnto the Christians makes no mention of the authority of the holy Scripture but of the ancient custome only of the consent of fathers and of the decreâ—s of holy Councels From whence followeth that this commandement of inuocating the Saints hath not bene giuen to the Christians as you write a thousand sixe hundred and fiue yeares ago or thereabouts but hath bene a long time after forged as I will prooue in due place by your Predecessors who haue made no conscience to teach for doctrine of saluation their owne traditions and humaine inuentions Which hauing shewed your second foundatioÌ„ wil tumble downe of it selfe that is how this rule of worshipping God alone hath bene inuented by those whom wrongfully you terme Lutherans and Caluinists for wee acknowledge none for our soueraigne Doctour and Master but our Lord Iesus Christ the only perfect wisedome and essential word of his Father who hath spoken heretofore to our Fathers by the auncient Prophets and since being manifested in our flesh hath spoken himselfe by his sacred mouth to his Disciples and after his Ascension by his Apostles who as faithful Secretaries and dispensators of the secrets of God haue left vs in writing the fundamentall points of pure Religion and touching this point haue taught vs that God only and no other ought to bee called vpon by vs in our necessities And although this is as cleere as the Sun shine in a bright day at noone yet because you are blinde and leaders of the blinde as your predecessors the Scribes and Pharisies were in the time of Iesus Christ wee will alleage against you some certaine proofes for that which is abouesaid to the end they may serue as a cleere light to those which wink not with their eyes that they might not see in seeing but open them with a holy desire to behold this light When God saith in the first Commandement of his law giuen by Moses to our Fathers * Thou shalt haue none* other Gods before me what doth hee signifie by this prohibition but only that we ought not to acknowledge any other God and Sauiour but him nor to attribute to any one that honour which is proper to him that is to call vpon him only in our anguishes according to that expresse command which he giueth vs in Deuteronom Thou shall worship the Lord thy God and serue him And by the Prophet Asaph in the 50 Psalme verses 14. 15. Offer vnto God praise and pay thy vowes vnto the most high and call vpon me in the day of trouble and I will deliuer thee and thou shalt glorifie me And to stirre vs vp the more thereunto he denounceth by the Prophet Esay chap. 42. and 8 verse I am the Lord this is my name and my glorie will I not giue to another neither my praise to grauen Images And in the 45 chap. and 21 verse Haue not I the Lord and there is none other God beside me a iust God and a Sauiour there is none beside me And in the 22 verse Looke vnto me and yee shall be saued all the ends of the earth shall be saued for I am God and there is none other If hereupon you object against me that God commandeth not by these places that wee should only worship him and none other beside him The answere is cleere to wit that this commandement of God was so interpreted by the Prophet Samuel and in the fulnesse of time by our Soueraigne Doctor Iesus Christ himselfe For therefore you may see how the Prophet warneth all the house of Israel in the 7 chapter of his booke and third verse where he saith If ye be come againe vnto the Lord with all your heart put away the strange gods from among you and Ashtoroth and direct your hearts vnto the Lord and serue him only and hee shall deliuer you out of the hand of the Philistims By which you may see that the Prophet Samuel sheweth vnto the children of Israel that the meanes and way to conuert and direct themselues vnto the Lord with all their hearts is to serue him only and to take away from before his eyes the Idols of the Heathen which hee calleth the gods of the strangers Euen so also our Lord Iesus Christ being tempted in the wildernesse by the wicked spirit which had transported him vpon a high mountaine and shewed him all the kingdomes of the world and the glorie of them with promise that he would giue them all vnto him if so be he would fall down and worship him he alleageth against Satan that which is written in the sixt chapter of the book of Moses called Deuteronomie expounding the intention of his father as he which is his Counsellour witnesse the Prophet Isaiah in his ninth chapter and fifth verse he addeth thereto this word only when hee answereth Satan that in that place it is written Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God and him only shalt thou serue as though he would haue said That the seruice which is due vnto God only is to worship him and to prostrate our selues before him And to this end and purpose the sonnes of Korah who composed the 44 Psalme teach vs in the 20 and 21 verses that to call vpon any other besides God is to forget and denie him If say they
you equal hir with our redeemer in calling hit Reparatrix and Salâ—atrix of mankind The queene of mercy the valiant woman which hath broken the serpents head and she alone that hath rooted out all the heresiâ—s in the world Cardinall Bâ—nauenture makes no conscience to appropriate to hit all that Dauid in his psalmes hath attributed to God the father the sonne and the holy Ghost Blessedâ— is that man saith he which liueth Mary which giueth praise vnto 〈◊〉 name which putteth his trust in hir which hopeth in hit Come vnto hir all ye that are wearie and she will giue rest vnto your soules The heauens declare thy glorie The earth and hir fulnesse is thine thou raignest eternally with God blessed are those which make much of thee because in thy mercies thou wilt wash their sins haue mercie on me mother of mercie and according to the bowels of thy mercies wash me from all mine iniquities Wicked serpent whereof bostest thou thy selfe put thy necke vnder Mary ô Ladie bruse him by the vertue of thy foot cast him down by thy force into the bottomlesse pu Saue me in thy name and deliuer me from mine vnrighteousnesse take pitie on me for my heart is readie to receiue thy will Lord for our sinnes thou hast repulsed vs and because of the virgin Marie hast taken pitie on vs. Let Marie arise and all hir enemies shall be destroyed Lord giue thy iudgement to thy sonne and thy mercy to the queene his mother God is the God of vengance Ladie saluation and life consists in thy hand O how good is God vnto them that worship his mother Come and let vs adore the Ladie let us giue praise vnto the virgin that hath saued vs. Let vs worship hir and confesse vnto hir our sinnes The Lord reigneth Mary fitteth vpon the Cherubins at his right hand whâ— dwelleth vnder hir wing is vnder a safe protection haue remembrance ô Ladie of Dauid and of all those which call vpon thy name The Lord said to my Ladie sit my mother at my right hand thou hast taken pleasure in goodnesse and holinesse and therefore shalt thou raigne with me Praise the Lord because he is good for his mercie is giuen by Mary You transferre in like manner to the Virgin that which in all humilitie of heart she sung to the honor of her Creator and Sauiour And in stead of that which she sung as the Euangelist S. Luke witnesseth in the first chapter and 45. verse My soule magnifieth the Lord and my spirit reioyceth in God my Sauiour c. Because he that is mighty hath done for me great things c. you say My soule magnifieth my Ladie and my heart reioyceth in my Ladie because hee that is mightie hath done for mee great things through Mary his mother What should I say more You celebrate in your Canticles the Virgin Mary as Lady of the Angels espouse and Mother of the eternall king Promise of the Patriarches Veritie of the Prophets Teacher of the Apostles Mistrâ—s of the Euangelists Lady of the Word and Queene of Heauen And hereupon you beseech her that she would saue her people Likewise you craue of her in expresse tearmes all that which God himselfe will or can giue vnto vs by his onely sonne Iesus Christ Impetra nobis veniam applica nobis grattam praparâ— nobis gloriam that is to say Obtaine pardon for vs applie grace vnto vs prepare glorie for vs. You haue corrupted Simeons song and in stead of that which the Euangelist Saint Luke reciteth in the second chapter and 29 verse how this good Father holding the Sauiour of the world in his armes blesseth God and saith Lord now lettest thou thy seruant depart in peace according to thy word for mine eyes haue seene thy saluation which thou hast prepared before the face of all people you misturne these his words to the handmaide of the Virgin Mary saying Lord now lettest thou depart in peace the handmaid of the Virgin Mary for mine eyes haue seene the saluation of Mary which thou hast prepared before the face of all people a light to inlighten the Gentiles c. You hold her for the true saluation the true felicitie the greatnesse of charitie the largenesse of pietie vnto whom the Angels obey as by one of your Letanies appeareth Which is worse your Cardinals and Bishops assembled in the Councel of Constance in which they condemned to death Iohn Hus and Ierome of Prague both of them Bohemians constant in the true faith to adde vnto the heape of their crueltie against these Martyrs some token of their impietie and hatred against the holy Ghost which had endowed these two witnesses with his truth and with such a mouth and wisedome against which these good fathers were not able to resist they thought good to applie vnto the Virgin Mary that prayer which is made to the honour of the holie Ghost and in stead of saying as before Veni sancte Spiritus c. to haue made them sing Veni maier gratiae fons misericordiae miseris remedium veni lux Ecclesiae tristibus laetitiâ— â—â—ne infundâ— radium Simonis nanicula fiâ—y tunicula 〈◊〉 scindatur prohibe quae DeuÌ„ hominibus 〈◊〉 inngis ô puerpera Hereses interime schismataque reprime firmâ— pacis fâ—â—era That is to say Come mother of grace fountains of mercie remedie of the wretched câ—â—e light of the Church shed vpon these heauie soules the beame of ioy the small ship of Simon surnamed Peter suffer not the little coatâ— of thy sonne to be torne in peeces ô mother in childbed which coâ—ioynest God with men and the inferiour creatures with the celestiall abâ—lish Heresies represse Schismes and establish the couenants of peace I am astonished at the blasphemies of Barnardine de Busto and Anthonine Archbishop of Florence who set the Virgin Mary aboue the onely sonne of God for see what Barnardinâ— saith of her in his Mariall Men may say of the Virgin Mary that she is the light of the Genâ—les and the glory of her people Israel For God at her natiuitie said vnto her I haue giuen thee as a light to the Gentiles to the end thou maist be our saluation to the ends of the earth a light to lighten the Gentiles All graces saith he come downe vpon vs from the Father and the Sonne by the Virgin Mary mediatrix between God and men no grace coÌ„meth from heauen but by her hands All graces enter into her and come foorth from her They are in Christ â—s in the head from whence they flow they are in Mary as in the neck which distributeth them Moreouer If any man feele himselfe grieued at Gods iustice hee may appeale to the Virgin Mary which hath been signified in the booke of Ester chap. 5. where it is said that King Abashuerosâ— being in anger and wroth against the Iewes Queene Ester came to appease him and found such fauour with the King that hee said vnto her What
the loue of their children Euen so almightie Father through the loue thou bearest to thy almightie Sonne I beseech thee draw my soule out of prison to the end it may confesse thy name deliuer me from the bands of sinne through the intercession of this thy precious Sonne which sitteth at thy right hand For surely I know not what other intercessor I could addresse towards thee for me but only he which is the propitiation for our sinnes who sitteth at thy right hand who through the glorie which is common to him with thee soliciteth thy goodnesse for vs. Behold O God and Father my Aduocate with thee behold my High-priest which hath no need of being cleansed through the blood of any one because hee shineth being sprinkled with his owne blood I haue addressed thy welbeloued Sonne for my Aduocate I haue made him a Mediatour betweene thee and me an Intercessor through whom I am sure to obtaine pardon behold he is my hope lâ—e in him is all my confidence If thou rereiect me for mine iniquitie as I haue deserued regard me yet at the least in thy Sonne that propitiation which thou hast prepared by one that serued thee Remember what thy Sonne hath suffered and forget that which a wicked wretch hath done In like manner we finde in his Epistles another forme made for the instruction and consolation of the sick which prepare themselues to die in forme of a discourse wherein the Pastor demandeth and the sick person answereth Art thou glad in thy selfe saith the Pastor to the sick that thou diest in thy Christian faith Yea answered the sicke P. Doest thou confesse to haue liued so ill as thou hast merited eternall punishment S. Yea. P. Beleeuest thou that our Lord Iesus Christ died for thee S. Yea. P. Doest thou giue him thankes therefore S. Yea. P. Beleeuest thou that thou canst not bee saued but by his death S. Yea. P. Got to then whilest yet thy soule is in thee set all thy saluation only in his death Haue confidence in no other thing trust and commit thy selfe wholly to this death couer thy selfe only therewith and with it wrap thy selfe round about And if the Lord would iudge thee say Lord I oppose the death of Iesus Christ our Lord betweene me and thy iudgement otherwise I could not debate with thee And if hee say vnto thee that thou art a sinner say Lord I put the death of Iesus Christ our Lord betweene thee and my sinnes And if hee should say once more vnto thee thou hast merited damnation say Lord I put the death of our Lord Iesus betweene thee and my damnation I offer vnto thee his merit in stead of that which ought to be in me in whom there is none And if hee should say yet vnto thee that he is angrie against thee say Lord I put the death of our Lord Iesus betweene me and thy anger This being accomplished let the sicke say three times Lord I recommend my spirit into thy hands Thus Saint Bernard hath oftentimes exhorted the people in his sermons not to stand vpon the Apostles nor any other Saint which is but a man neither to any Angel but to goe straight forward vnto the Father of lights who is the only iudge and witnesse of our thoughts and to his Sonne Iesus Christ the only Sauiour and Bridegrome of the Church For in his 23. Sermon expounding this sentence of our Lord Iesus Christ I am the way the truth the life Who will saith he making Christ himselfe speake come let come after me let him come by me let him come to me After me saith the Lord for I am the truth by me for I am the way to me for I am the life And in his 15. Sermon on the 91. Psalme The Church saith he is excellent well described in the Canticle of Canticles that hauing found the watchmen or rather being found by them for she sought them not she staieth not with those watchmen neither contenteth her selfe in their companie but hauing enquired after her welbeloued flies right towards him for her heart had no trust in those watchmen but in her Lord and it may be she would haue said to those which should haue counselled her otherwise I haue my confidence in the Lord which the Corinthians did not well obserue when they met with those watchmen but staied with them and passed no further I am said they of Cephas and I of Paul and I of Apollo but what haue these sober and well aduised watchmen done For they would not take to them the Bride they which were ielous about her euen with a godly ielousie who had vowed to render her as a chast virgin to her husband And if I deceiue not my selfe they pushed her forward to the end she might passe further to finde out her welbeloued And it is to be considered with what arrowes the Apostle S. Paul woundeth those which some to stay with the watchmen Paul hath he been crucified for you or haue yee been baptized in the name of Paul And immediatly after I will deliuer him saith the Lord in the 91 Psalme because hee hopeth in me not saith hee in the watchmen not in man not in Angel but in me Expect no good from any but from me and not by them for euery good gift is from aboue comming downe from the Father of lights for through me the watchmen are profitable But for the rest the watch of the secret intention which is in the bottome of the heart must not only be of me but also is made by me because the eye of man cannot penetrate so deepe nor likewise the eye of an Angel Also in his 174 epistle he admonisheth the Monks of his time that the Vrgin Mary would be honoured with iudgement because she hath no need of false honors being adorned aboue in heauen with true honors She takes no delight saith he in a proud noueltie the mother of rushnesse and sister of lightnesse to honor her in such a sort is not to honor her but to take away honor from her Moreouer manifesting his faith to be only in God in his 61 Sermon vpon the Canticle of Canticles My merit saith he is the mercie of the Lord for I haue no want of merit so long as he hath no want of mercie I boldly take from the bowels of the Lord what I want because they are full of mercie Besides he died in this beleefe saying I confesse that I am not worthie of the inheritance of the kingdome of heauen and the which through â—ine owne merits I cannot obtaine but my Lord which holdeth it by a double right that is both by the inheritance of his Father and through the merit of his owne passion content with one he giueth me the other And if I attribute it to my selfe by vertue of the gift which he hath giuen me I am not confounded It is not yet fiue hundred yeeres since S.
answere I neuer knew you To this end also S. Gregorie Bishop of Rome saith Because oft times miracles are done through the inspiration of the diuell my brethren loue not those signes as are common with the reprobate And S. Austin saith The diuels doe miracles like vnto those which were done by the seruants of God c. Considering therefore that the wicked Spirit hath often times done miracles among the Iewes and Gentiles and that it was foretold that Antichrist and his supporters shall in great number doe them in the latter daies to establish their errors and seduce the elect of God if it were possible it is a follie in you to conclude that the miracles done through the inuocation of the departed Saints is a seruice pure and approued by God But to reproue the course of your fine discourse adorned with this figure of preuention There is one thing will some man say which troubleth much these heretikes and what is it how they cannot vnderstand nor imagine that the Saints doe heare vs affirming that it is vnpossible for a man praying beneath on earth to be heard of the departed Saints into heauen Which according to the scope of your writing is the second point which wee haue yet to examine It were to be wished that in this examination you were more discreet and sincere You consider not that in tearming vs heretikes because we will not beleeue that the Saints deceased vnderstand and heare the prayers of those which call vpon them you also reproue Salomon the wise of heresie who teacheth vs in the first booke of Kings and 8. chapter that there is none but God only who knoweth the hearts of all men and that that is one of the principall causes wherefore we should call vpon him and to expect from him alone the accomplishment of our desires Lord saith he what prayer and supplication soeuer shall be made of any man or of all thy people Israel when euery one shall know the plague in his owne heart and stretch foorth his hand in this house Heare thou then in heauen in thy dwelling place and be mercifull and doe and giue euery man according to all his waies as thou knowest his heart for thou only knowest the hearts of all the children of men Moreouer in stead of speaking seriously you at your pleasure flout at Caluin and our arguments You say that our strongest arguments and that which we most set by is that which wee hold from our Captaine Caluin who asketh you in the third booke of his Institutions chap. 20. sect 24. Who hath reuealed to you this secret that the departed Saints haue so long eares to stretch them downe vnto your words and so sharp eyes that they can behold your necessities It is maruell that you who so diligently set foorth your tongue with the colours of Rhetorique vnderstand not that hee maketh this demaund of you by an Ironia or manner of mockage and laugheth at your foolish imagination that the Saints which are aboue in heauen heare and see what is done here beneath on earth For without searching any further Caluin confesseth in that very section that the soules of the blessed albeit they are separated from their bodies and vse no more the instruments of eyes and eares yet vnderstand many things which concerne the aduancement of the glorie of God and his kingdome Yea and that they seeke it with a setled and vnmoued will which may bee proued by some texts out of the Bible but hee condemneth the boldnesse of your Sophists who without any testimonie of holie Scripture dare affirme that the brightnesse of Gods face is so great that in the contemplation thereof the Saints may behold as in a mirrour the things which in this world do happen But whilest you bark against this demand of Caluins you dissemble our arguments and accuse your selues of falsehood and deliberate malice seeing you vaunt that you haue read the writings of our Ministers and haue therein obserued the reasons which they propound against the second point of your doctrine If it be true that you haue perused the principall reasons of our Pastors why then do you let passe in silence that which they haue drawne out of the fountaine of the holy Scriptures and namely in the 9. chapter of Ecclesiastes vers 6. That the loue and the hatred of the dead is now perished and they haue no more portion for euer in all that is done vnder the Sunne And in the 63. chapter of Esay and 16. verse Lord thou art our Father though Abraham be ignorant of vs and Israel know vs not Whereupon this argument of our Teachers is grounded The holy Scripture manifestly instructeth vs in those aboue said texts y ◠the Saints deceased this world haue no more portion in the things which are done vnder the cope of heauen nor any knowledge of our affaires Therfore it is a folly in them which yet walk in this vaile of miserie to call vpon them But to proceed on with the course of your inuectiue you say that the disciples of Caluin and Luther to shew themselues wiser then their Masters haue begun since that to demaund of the Catholiques some expresse texts and examples taken out of the holy Scripture whereby it might appeare that the Saints aboue in Paradise vnderstand heare our prayers Whereunto I replie that Luther and Caluin haue not required of you any expresse texts by the which it might appeare that the deceased Saints heare our Prayers because they knew exceeding well that there could not be found for it so much as one only word in the Word of God For what saith Caluin thereof in his 3. booke and 20. chapter sect 21 What angell or diuell euer reueiled to any man any one syllable of this intercessiō of Saints which these men haue forged For in the Scripture there is nothing said thereof What reason had he then to seeke it there And as for vs which are none of Luthers or Caluins disciples but Christs wee require of you some proofes taken out of the marrow of the holy Scripture not for that wee thinke it is possible for you but because wee might haue the greater occasion to confute you of leasing euen by your own consciences And when all is said and when we come to that ye feare the blowes to saue your selues from them you answere vs reciprocally by a demaund whether wee can proue our negatiue by some text to wit that the Scripture teacheth vs not that the Saints which are in heauen can heare our prayers In your inuectiue against Caluin you reproch him in that hee wanteth Philosophie but herein I may rebuke you by an argument farre more forcible that you haue not learned the lawes Dialecticae that is of Logick which teacheth vs Quod affirmanti incumbat probatio to wit that he which affirmeth any thing is bound to proue his affirmation So it is
Hesichius In such a case saith he as thy last day findeth thee euen such will the last day of this world take thee Such as man dieth in that very day such shall he be iudged in the other And in his 10. Sermon vpon the Apostles words There are two homes the one in eternall fire the other in an eternall kingdome Likewise in his 232. Serm. intituled De Tempore Brethrē saith he let no man deceiue himselfe for there are but two places and no third for any one Whereunto his exposition serueth which in another place he speaketh of in disputing against the Pelagians The Catholique faith saith he by diuine authoritie beleeueth that the first place is the kingdome of heauen the second hell where all apostates and reuolters from the faith in Christ shall feele euerlasting torments As touching a third we are wholly ignorant of and which is more wee finde by the holy scripture that there is none Besides in the 9. booke of his Confessions he maintaineth y ◠one seeth God in Abrahams bosome and thereby he sheweth as a thing most certaine that the soule of Abraham and the faithfull fathers departed this world was in heauen and not in Limbo or Purgatorie where none can behold God but in the alone seate of the blessed according to that sentence of our Sauiour contained in the fifth chapter of S. Matthew and 8. verse Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God On the other side the same Doctor saith of the Fathers of the old Testament that they which beleeued in Christ before hee came in the flesh haue been saued through their faith in Christ Iesus I could here alleage a sentence of S. Gregorie Nazianzen whereby he comforted himselfe at his brothers death saying that he was ascended vp into heauen and rested in the bosome of Abraham and many others to the same effect but because I will not be too tedious I will now examine the second point of your opinion which is that that which Christ teacheth of the rich Glutton and Lazarus is a historie which wee denie because there are sundry circumstances which shew also that it is partly a parable For in that storie we cannot take the things literally which are recited in them neither can it be possible in all that which Christ heretofore did preach of the rich Glutton and poore Lazarus because Christ therein attributeth tongues fingers and eyes to the soules of the departed which hee doth by a manner of speech which is called historicall but is parabolicall by which spirituall things are made cleere by the comparison and similitude of corporall Now although wee shall approue that which wee haue denied to wit that Abraham heard the complaints of the rich man yet cannot you solidly conclude from thence that the departed Saints also doe heare the prayers of such as liue vpon the face of the earth For Bellarmine your Doctor describeth the distance which is between Limbus and Hell in such a sort as if he had bin there himselfe to haue measured the one and the other place where hee saith there is betwixt them a great opening neither more nor lesse then is betweene two places separated only by the aire so that from the one part of this gulfe one may see and heare what is done in the other By this reckoning then the distance is not so great betweene those places as it is betweene heauen and earth seeing that these two places are shut vp on all sides and so farre separated from each other that it is not possible that the Saints which are in heauen and we which are here beneath on earth can heare or see each other Neuerthelesse to giue some colour to your opinion you bring in S. Austin vpon this point speaking in this manner Quid non vident qui videntem omnia vident What saith he doe not the Saints aboue in heauen see in seeing him which seeth all things to wit God But wherefore haue you not marked that place is it not because you dare not openly gainsay those which attribute these words to S. Gregory But howsoeuer if they were his he forgot himselfe in pronouncing these words for albeit that God seeth all things yet it followeth not from thence that the Saints which behold God should see all things likewise If you should propound such an argument in Schooles to Aristotles disciples they would presently confute you by the like argument which an ignorant person might make you of the Sunne and of vs which daily doe behold it to wit sith that the Sunne which is the eye of the world as Philosophers tearme it seeth and discouereth all things which are vnder the cope of heauen that wee likewise in beholding the Sunne should see all things which are vnder the Sunne What man is it that perceiueth not this consequence to be bad And if it were good yet yours would remaine false naughtily grounded because wee denie that which you affirme without any testimonie of holy Scripture that is that God or the Trinitie serue as a mirror to the soules of the departed thereby to behold all things as the Sunne and Moone which are as spectacles to our bodily eyes to perceiue by them the things which are represented to our sight Besides this it is an easie matter to stop your mouth and to shew by the testimonie of Christ and his Apostle in the sixth chapter of the Reuelation that the Angels and the spirits of the departed though they behold the face of God yet they see not nor know the day and houre of the last comming of Christ. Moreouer wee can conuince you thereof euen by your predecessors and can proue by their owne writings how they taught that the soules of the departed see not any thing which is done vpon the earth for you may see what Albertus Bishop of Ratisbone writeth thereof who was Master to Thomas of Aquin in his booke of our Coniunction with God and 8. chapter The departed Saints saith he busie not themselues about the affaires of this world neither care for the estate thereof neither of peace nor warre neither of faire weather or raine nor in summe for any man here below but are wholly deuoted to one God and all of them vnited and employed to apply and accommodate themselues to him Finally from the blessed you descend to the damned and as though you had heard their discourses and sounded their spirits you reason without reason aswell of their knowledge as of their charitie towards God and men suruiuing them for thus you discourse If the damned doe likewise heare those speake which are so farre distant from them as the rich man heard Abraham and shewed himselfe mindfull and carefull for his brethren which yet remaine vpon the earth being afraid left they should come into the same place of torment where he was as you may see in the Gospell by that which he spake vnto Abraham should we