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A80765 The disputes between Mr. Cranford, and Dr. Chamberlen. At the house of Mr. William Webb, at the end of Bartholomew Lane, by the Old Exchange: on March 1. 1652, and April 1. 6. 13. / Published for the satisfaction of all that love the truth. Cranford, James, d. 1657.; Chamberlen, Peter, 1601-1683. 1652 (1652) Wing C6822; Thomason E666_6; ESTC R206920 19,015 40

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a lawfull assembly vers 39. or unlawfull vers 32 41. But by way of excellency because no Assembly so worthy as that which is called together to the worship of God Therefore it is ordinarily taken for such wherein we must also distinguish between the Church of Christ and a Church of Christ The Church comprehends all the faithfull Saints from the beginning of the World to the end As Ephes 1.22 and 3.21 and 5.23 c. Col. 1.18.24 and 1 Cor. 12.28 Heb. 12.23 A Church of Christ also is taken for any Church of Christ respectively as Mat. 18.17 and 1 Cor. 14. and 4.17 c. 1 Cor. 7.17 and 11.16.15.9 Philip. 3.6 And it hath also severall other Appellations as House City Body Spouse and Family or definitively either And that an uncertain providentiall Assembly or meeting as Mat. 18.20 Wheresoever two or three are gathered together in the name of Christ. In which sense Mr. Cranf distinguisheth it Ecclesia Fidelium Or more setled and constant which likewise are distinguisted by Times Nations or Places Distinguished by Times we read Act. 7.38 the Church in the Wildernesse And by Nations Rom. 16.4 all the Churches of the Gentiles By Places as Countries α Kingdomes β Provinces γ By Countrys α 1 Cor. 16.19 Church of Asia And by Kingdomes β 2 Cor. 8.1 of Macedonia And by Provinces γ as Galatia 1 Cor. 16.1 Gal. 1.2 and Judea Gal. 1.22 Citys of Corinth 1 Cor. 12. and 2 Cor. 1.1 Ephesus Smyrna Pergamus Thyatyra Sardis Philadelphia Laodicea Revel 1.11 And Houses as Aquila and Prisscilla 1 Cor. 16.19 Rom. 16.3 5. and Nymphas Col. 4.15 The Church of Christ is then and so long the Church of Christ as she saith and doth what Christ gave her to say and doe even as Christ himself John 7.17 and 8.26 28. and 12.5 and 14.10 24. and 5.19.30 And when she saith or doth otherwise she speaketh or playeth the Harlot in that particular By Organical was meant a definite setled Church of Christ compleated with Officers as a body with members 1 Cor. 12.12 Here Dr. Chamb. being called upon to prove that Presbyters did forbid Ministers of a true Church He proved it by this Syllogisme Ma. They that forbid Ministers Ordained by the Presbytery of Baptised Churches forbid Ministers of a true Church Mi. But Ministers of London Presbyterian Ministers forbid Ministers Ordained by the Presbytery of Baptised Churches Con. Therefore Ministers of London Prebyterian Ministers forbid Ministers of a true Church Mr. Cranf denyed the Major because no true Presbytery and because no true Church but desired that the last should be proved To which Dr. Chamb. argued Ma. They that have the true Marks of a true Church are a true Church Mi. But Baptised Churches have the true Marks of a true Church Con. Therefore they are a true Church Mr. Cranf denyed the Minor which was thus proved Ma. They that have true Preaching of the Word and true Administration of the Sacraments have the true Marks of a true Church Mi. But Baptised Churches have true Preaching of the Word and true Administration of Sacraments Con. Therefore they have the true Marks of a true Church Mr. Cranf denyed the Minor That they neither had true Preaching of the Word nor true Administration of the Sacramets Dr. Chamb. asked which he should prove Mr. Cranf bad him prove the true Administration of Sacraments Ma. They that have the true Administration of Baptisme and the Lords Supper have the true Administration of Sacraments Mi. But Baptized Churches have the true Administration of Baptisme and the Lords Supper Con. Therefore Baptized Churches have the true Administration of the Sacraments Mr. Cranf denyed the Mi. but bad him prove Baptisme Ma. They that have the Administration of Baptisme in the true manner and on the true Subject have the true Administration of Baptisme Mi. But Baptized Churches have the Administration of Baptisme in the true manner and on the true Subjects Con. Therefore Baptized Churches have the true Administration of Baptisme Mr. Cranf denyed the Mi. Dr. Chamb. asked whether he should prove first the manner or the subject Mr. Cranf said any which he would Then said Dr. Chamb. First I le prove the manner and then the Subject Ma. They that Administer Baptisme in the same Manner as it was Administred unto Christ Matth. 13.16 And as Philip Administred it to the Eunuch Act. 8.38 have the true manner of Administration of Baptisme Mr. Cranf cryed out and some with him prove the subject for that is desired by some here Then Dr. Chamb. proceeded Ma. They that Administer Baptisme on Beleevers and Repenters Administer Baptisme on the true Subjects Mi. But Baptized Churches Administer Baptisme on Repenters and Believers Con. Therefore Baptized Churches Administer it on the true Subject The Mi. was denyed and thus proved Ma. They that Administer Baptisme upon those that confesse their Sins and professe their Faith Administer Baptisme on the true Subject Mi. But Baptized Churches Administer it upon those that confesse their Sins and professe their Faith Con. Therefore Baptized Churches Administer Baptisme on the true Subject Mr. Cranf denyed the Minor and said they do not Baptize such as do confesse their Sins and professe their Faith Dr. Cham. said that might be attested by any that ever were present at their Baptisme Besides it were against their very Principles if they should not do so Saith Mr. Cranf I say they do not Baptize Believers and Repenters Saith Dr. Chamb. now you go back to the former Syllogisme Mr. Cranf said they do not Baptize Believers and Repenters but Renegadoes Dr. Chamb. said I gave no ill language but used the words of the Scripture and I hope you will not be angry with the language of the holy Ghost when I must use it in argument Renegado is language of Scripture saith Mr. Cranf Where said Dr. Chamberlen Mr. Cranf said because it signified Apostate Said Dr. Cha. Then why did you not rather use that Word The debate here made Dr. Chamb. forget to take notice how in denying the Baptisme of Believers and Repenters Mr. Cranf denyed the Conclusion But he proceeded to prove that they did Baptize Believers and Repenters Ma. They that baptize such as shall be saved baptize believers and repenters Minor But baptized Churches baptize such as shall be saved Con. Therefore they baptized believers and repenters Mr Cranf denyed the Major Dr. Chamb. urged Mark 16.16 Whosoever believeth and is baptized shall be saved Mr. Cranf denyed it Dr. Chamb. replied Contra Principia negantem non est disputandum Saith Mr. Cranf you are to prove it Dr Chamb. then argued thus Major They that baptize such as confesse with their mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in their heart that God hath raised him from the dead Rom. 10. baptize such as shall be saved Mi. But baptized Churches baptize such as confesse with their mouth the Lord Jesus and believe with their heart that God hath raised him from the dead