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A48860 A further defence of the report Vindicating it from Mr. Alsops Cavils, and shewing the difference between Mr. W's and my self to be real, and the charge in my appeal to be true. Lobb, Stephen, d. 1699. 1698 (1698) Wing L2724; ESTC R218961 51,757 90

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are not really intended c. Thus though it is not in ●e Letter said That God is Impassible without ●●inning c. Yet these things are by other words ●●ended Again altho' it be in the Letter that ●od sleeps awakes moves yet are they not really ●eant Dal. Vbi sup Cap. 7. and 8. 9. This Learned Person induceth sundry other authorities and at last refers to his Appendix in which is a Treatise of Theodoret which has been ●●serted in the Works of Athanasius against 'em ●●o are for a rigid and stiff Adherence unto the ●●ry words of Scripture without any regard to their Contsonancy or Dissonancy unto Reason or ●●e Analogy of Faith or Mysteries of the Gospel which the Father doth thus expostulate with ' em What shall I believe with my Heart unto Righteousness What shall I confess with my Mouth unto Salvation when it 's maliciously objected That the Father who hath sent me is greater than I shall I hastily assent unto it as thus simply Delivered and boldly deny the Son to be equal with the Father Must I not at all weigh the matter nor consider that this is to be understood in regard to the Oeconomy and Dispensation May I not observe what is said elsewhere of the Father and the Son 's being one and that we must honour the Son as we honour the Father 10. To gather up what hath been briefly suggested t is manifest that Hereticks have communicated Pestilent Doctrines in Scripture Language that they have been for a rigid Adhesion unto the very words syllables and letter of Scripture That they would Reject those Terms and Phrases used by the Orthodox to explain the Truth and distinguish it from Errour because not in the Letter of Scripture That the Church would not part with a word a syllable nor with a Letter that was necessary to express the Truth The Council of Nice would not gratify the Arians nor Nestorians in a Letter saith Dr. Manton on Jude p. 163. That the Opposers of Orthodox Terms and Phrases always did it with a design to subvert the Truth But if it be Blasphemous to detect the fraudulent Practice of Hereticks what Fence can we have against a Vitalis a Biddle a Socinian or Arian I might enlarge and expose but I will forbear and Apply my self to the Consideration of the next The Seventh Objection Mr. Lobb leaves out a considerable word in his translating a part of the Scotch Confession p. 81. There 's word QUASI which he did not think for his purpose to English He ought to have said And to appear as it were in our Person that is that Christ appeared not properly in our Person Reply 1. When I did in answer to the Request of several learned and judicious Brethren undertake to ●●amine the Writings of Mr. W. I found his Attempts to be so like what had been used by Men ●●ound in the Faith who have made it their Business for a while to conceal their own Notions and ●●em to quarrel rather with the Terms and Phrases ●osen by the Orthodox to Explain the Truth than ●ith the Truth it self that I could do no less than ●●ke notice of it to my Brethren who having not ●●en so forward as I think they should to give ●●eck to his Career have though not designedly ●●couraged him and his Partizans to make further ●●cursions on the controverted Terms and Phrases ●●d insinuate that the whole contest is but about ●ords 2. This being the way and method of my Oppo●●●s I did in my Defence carefully endeavour to ●●ulcate it that we contend for the controverted ●●rases only as they are expressive of what is es●●●tial to a real proper and plenary Satisfaction to Gods ●●tice for our Sins so that in good earnest the ●ontention is about the great and necessary Doctrine 〈◊〉 Christs Satisfaction and for the Terms and Phrases 〈◊〉 otherwise than as they are expressive of this ●octrine 3. That I might bring our true and genuine ●●nse into so clear a Light as not to leave the least ●adow of Reason for one doubting thought ●out what it was I expresly declared That if I did but direct to the Confession where either a ●roper Satisfaction is asserted or where 't is said that Christ as our Surety suffered for us or that Christ suffered in our Place and Stead or stood in our Person when he died it might I hoped satisfy any unprejudiced Person that the Phrases contended for are in our Confessions that is The thing they signify and for which we plead is there thereby shewing that it is the Doctrine which these Terms and Phrases do most aptly and with the greatest Clearness and Distinction convey unto our Understandings that we are for 5. That these Termes and Phrases are not of our Invention but have been as I have in my Defence unanswerably proved used by the Orthodox in their Opposition unto the Arminians and Socinians in a Sense known both to our Divines and their Adversaries And that it hath been the trick of Hereticks and their Favourers to raise Doubts and Scruples about their meaning and usefulness As on the other hand it hath been the constant Practice of the Church as I have already suggested to defend them as they are most apt to explain the Truth and distinguish it from Errour For which Reason as soon as I have cleared my Translation of the Scotch Confession and detected the Impertinence and Folly of some other Cavils I will go on to the second Point I have proposed to discourse of and show that the Controversie I have with Mr. W. is about the Doctrine of Christs Satisfaction that the Difference is Real in an Article that affects the Vitals of Religion But 6. The Phrase of Christs sustaining our Person has been generally received by the Orthodox as expressive of what 's Essential unto a real and Proper Satisfaction even of what Christ did to the end he might appear before Gods Tribunal under the Guilt of our Sins and bear a proper Punishment for them To suppose the Lord Christ to be guilty in 〈◊〉 his own Person is as if it had been said He had been in himself a Sinner unclean unholy But to consider him as our Surety sustaining the Person of Sinners and so to charge on him the Guilt of ●●r Sins cannot in the least defile or pollute his ●oly and righteous Soul It hath been therefore ●●firmed by the Orthodox that the Lord Jesus ●●stained his own and our Person As considered in his own Person he is most remote from the Guilt ●●d Filth of Sin As standing in our Person so he was covered with the Guilt of our Iniquities tho' ●ot touch'd with the least Moral Filth 7. The Phrase of Christs sustaining our Person ●ust be taken in Sensu forensi in Law-Sense importing that as a Surety doth in foro soli represent the ●●ebtor so the Lord Jesus Christ when at the ●ribunal of the Father represented those Sinners ●hose
Creditor and Debtor to insinuate that whatever may be truly affirmed of them in Humane Courts might be safely applied unto God and Sinners as to Christ acting the part of a Surety But to explain how Christ came under the same Obligations we stood and by his Satisfaction and Merit Redeems us from that miserable state and condition our sin had cast us into and procures for us a Right to Eternal Life And therefore in Obedience to the Holy Scriptures he considered Jesus Christ as a Surety that came into the State Quality or Condition of Sinners so far and no further than to come under the same Obligations and Bonds with us to answer for us and do on our behalf what was impossible to be done by our selves And that he might make this the more clear he represented unto us that State in which we all are by Nature affirming That we are all under the Curse destitute of a Righteousness that may entitle us to Eternal Life And that except Satisfaction be made both to Punitive and Remunerative Justice it 's impossible for us to be saved For seeing the Law under which we were Created is of Everlasting Obligation we stand bound thereby both to Obedience and the Punishment and until this Debt be paid we cannot be Relieved This is our State this is our Condition and that they who believe may be brought out of this Place State and Condition and have Everlasting Life Christ came into this Place into this State and Condition that is he came under those Bonds and Ob●igations that lay on us that by answering them we ●ight be the Redeemed and Saved But saith Mr. A. if it be thus Christ must be de●itute of a Righteousness to which I reply By no ●eans and if we consider how it is between a Surety and a Debtor in our Courts we may soon see ●he contrary For when one becomes Surety for another he comes into the Place State and Condition ●f that other that is under the same Bonds and Obligations to pay for him what he could not do for himself But would any Man of Sense say that the Surety coming into the same State and Condition of the Debtor to pay his Debts for him must be thereupon destitute of what is necessary in order thereunto He comes into the Place of one who is Insolvent but must he therefore be himself Insolvent and yet pay what neither the Debtor nor himself can pay Thus you see what Mr. A's Objection is at last come to But 2. The Righteousness of which our Discourse is answers that Law which said Do this and live In the day thou sinnest thou shalt die and it is to make Satisfaction both to Punitive and Remunerative Justice For whatever some may impertinently object it may be very safely said that Justice distributes Rewards and Punishments and therefore is rightly denominated Remunerative and Punitive For though it 's said That Punishment is merited by or is rather the Demerit of sin and that the Sinner when he bears the Punishment due unto him for his Iniquity partakes of the Reward of Vnrighteousness yet none can with the least pretence to Reason say That Punitive and Remunerative are Terms in all respects Coincident For it 's most notorious that when Believers are for the sake of Christ's Righteousness rewarded with Eternal Life they are not then punished though Remunerative Justice is then glorified yet Punitive Justice is not so But being assured that Mr. Alsop saith these Terms of Remunerative and Punitive Justice are Coincident I will give the Sense of some learned Protestants about it Gilbertus Voet a Man of good Learning and a right Calvinist discoursing of the Justice of God saith that Justitia Dei est vel in Dictis vel in Factis Posterior duplex scilicet Regiminis Judicii Justitia Judicii est quae secundum Opera Mercedem retribuit Estque haec duplex vel Remunerativa seu Praemians secundum Promissionem erga bene agentes vel Correctiva erga male agentes Quae etiam distinguitur in Castigantem erga Filios Vindicantem seu Punitivam proprie stricte sic dictam erga Reprobos Voet. Select Disput Pas 1. Disp de Jure Justitia pag. 357 358. And the learned Doctor Owen in his Diatribe de Justitia Divina saith the same affirming it to be the general Sense of Modern Divines not one of them who writ on the Divine Attributes being of a different Opinion And in the Margine he makes particular mention of Zanchy Voet Maresius and others directing us also unto Doctor Ames his Cases of Conscience who in the second Chapter of his fifth Book resolves this Question viz. Whether Remuneration or Punition belongs to Communicative or to Distributive Justice Whether Mr. A. understood these things or not is not in my Opinion very material it being sufficient to my purpose that in the Judgment of wiser Men than himself these Terms are not so Coincident as it 's said he doth insinuate But to return The Lord Jesus undertaking to make Satisfaction both to Punitive and Remunerative Justice that is to say the obliging himself to suffer the Punishment due to us for the Satisfaction of Punitive Justice and render Obedience to the same Law to merit the Reward we had ●ost the Righteousness the Reporter spake of lieth 〈◊〉 bearing the threatned Curse and in obeying the Pre●●pts of that Law we violated And I demand of ●●r Alsop Whether the Lord Jesus was always ●ossess'd of this Righteousness Had he it the ●●rst Instant of his undertaking or when he first ●ame into our Place State and Condition That there was no Guile in the Mouth nor De●●it in the Heart of the blessed Jesus That he ●as ever even whilst he was in a State of Exa●nition without Spot Holy Harmless Undefiled ●●parate from Sinners and at the greatest distance ●●om the least Pollution or Impurity we do firmly ●elieve And though he had not actually a satisfying-●eritorious Righteousness before he did by his Pae●●l Sufferings and his perfect Obedience to the vio●●ted Law satisfy and merit yet was he at no in●●ant of time destitute of what in that instant it ●ecame him to have But it s like nothing will ●●tisfie Mr. A. but the granting That either be●●re or at his undertaking or at least the first ●●●ment of his entring on the work of our Redemp●on he was actually possess'd of a satisfactory ●eritorious Righteousness as if he believed that Christ before he obeyed and suffered did perfect●● obey and fully satisfie How else can he make ●●hideous a Noise about the Reporters holding at Christ was destitute of a Righteousness enti●●ng himself and us too to eternal Life Once more 3. Mr. A blames the Reporter for suggesting if Christ had not a Righteousness entitling himself 〈◊〉 eternal Life To which I answer 1. That the Reporter spake not about Christs ha●●ng or not having a Righteousness entitling himself 〈◊〉 eternal Life But 2. Seeing