the Spirit Danson The Spirit is antecedent in respect of the revelation but subsequent the Letter in respect of assistance which he gives to obedience Fisher If there was a rule before the Scripture then that is not a rule but there was therefore Danson It was the same matter since the Gospel preached to Adam no increase of truths quoad essentiam sed tantum quoad explicationem the manner of conveyance different but the matter of Doctrine conveyed still the same Fisher Rom. 10.8 The word is mighty even in thy heart but yours is without Danson It is in thy mouth too For you read not all Fisher This is meant of the light in every mans conscience it is a word which every man hath heard Vers 18. But I say have they not heard Yes verily their sound went into all the world Danson Then the light within is the spirit you pleaded for to be the rule in opposition to Scripture N. B. But vers 18. speaks of the Gospel relating to the Preacher v. 14 15. And though the words are taken out of Psalm 19. yet they intend not that naturall knowledge of God which David speaks of but the Apostle intimates the knowledge of Christ by the Gospel should be of as large extent in the publication as the knowledge of God by the hearers ministry And the word said to be in the heart is meant of the matters conteined in the Scripture that is the word of faith which we preach Fisher Col. 3.16 Let the word of Christ dwel in you richly yours is without Danson It was without as it was the Letter of the Scripture and his exhortation was to get acquaintance therewith and he prescribes means in teaching one another singing of Psalmes which were part of the words of Christ as the matter and author Fisher It is a fond custome to make the people sing Davids conditions who have not his spirit Danson Your objection holds as strongly against the use of them in the times of the Old Testament and yet then they were part of publique Temple-worship nor is it more a lye to sing then read them By this Dispute you have a further discovery of their false Doctrines and that in matters of great concernment how 1. They labour to make the Scriptures imperfect 2. Themselves perfect 3. And the naturall light in man sufficient to salvation 4. How while they would set up Christ in word they would set up a righteousness of their owne to Justification In a word how in many things they plead the Popish cause while they cry down the Ministers of Christ You may also see their weakness and wickednesse in wresting of Scripture how that strength of argument will not satisfie and secure their obstinacy in darknesse under a pretence of light within them God heal them of their blindesse and obstinacy or stop up their way that they may not seduce Soules to destruction and guide them that feare his name in wayes of Truth and holinesse through the Lord our Righteousness Amen CHAP. X. Shewing 1. Quakers instrumental to the introducing of Popery 2. In some of their Tenents dangerous to States The first may appear both by Principles and Practices 1. In their Tenents 1. THat the Ministers of the Reformed Churches are no true Ministers 2. That a man is justified by the merit of his good workes 3. That the Scriptures should not he read by ignorant and unlearned 4. That a man may perfectly keep the Law 5. Denying the imputed righteousness of Christ for justification 6. That Scripture is not the supream rule 7. Pretending to revelations and miracles 8 That H. D. doth not know whether Purgatory be revealed in Scripture or not 9. The infallibility of their Ministry 2. Their practice 1. GEorge Cowlishaw Pryn. The Quakers deny the thing The innocent delivered out of the snare p. 40. and the cry of blood p. 8â— on this reason to affirme no such persons spake among them and they know the names of such as have not railed Ironmonger of Bristol affirms on oath January 22. 1654. that in September before he had some discourse there with one Coppinger an Irish man who told him that he had lived in Rome and Italty 8. or 9. years and had taken the order of a Franciscan and that he had been at London lately for some moneths and whilst there had been at all the Churches and meetings publique and private that he could hear of a How diligent and that none came so neer him as the Quarkers b To their praise And being at a meeting of the Quakers he there met with c A design two of his acquaintance at Rome of the same Franciscan order that were now becom chief d A fair door opened speakers among the Quakers and that he himself had spoken among the Quakers in London about thirty times and was well approved of among them e Marke Coppinger asked him if there had been no Quakers at Bristoll he answered no. He replyed that if he would give him 5 pound he would make it five hundred if some did not come within a moneth and about 18. dayes after there came two probably his two Franciscan Fryars which did much hurt and gained many Disciples As also by what follows c. 11. c. 4. Since which they have there taken root and spread of which you have a full discovery in the story of James Naylor before spoken of who in his answer to Baxter p. 15. takes notice of this story and thus replyes If reason may judge most likely came over to second your envy against us why did you not keep him Seeing the Law required it then might it have been proved if he had been a Speaker amongst us And in the margin read the judgements of God begun on him who took that oath and take warning Answ 1. to the 1. It will not easily be credited unlesse by themselves their tenents and practices have rendred them so bad we need not be put to such unworthy shifts 2. Are all Lawes executed we should then be in a far better condition and they in a worse yea Naylor himselfe through connivance fared better then the Sentence did allow 3. How blind is that in the Margin the thing he hints is so remarkable and making to his purpose that hee should have told what or where 2. Samuel Fisher 1. Quakers folly p. 56. denyed not that he had been at Rome but that he received a pension from the Pope he utterly denyed which is probably as true for it is had from very good hands that in his late travell to Constantinople and thence to Rome he had as good bills of Exchange as most Gentlemen that travell and yet it is well known that he hath no visible estate and the Quakers that came to the dispute did report that he did bear his witness against the Pope and Cardinals at Rome and yet they suffered him not to be medled
S. Three that may as it were be pointed at he he he Fox I do not like that argument T. S. Therefore further are you three Persons that dispute against me Fox Yea. T. S. Prove it Fox We are in 3 places and therefore 3 persons T. S. Therefore replied the Father Son and Holy Ghost have been in three places and therefore 3. persons at the Baptism of Christ s Argumentum ad hominem while Jesus came up the Holy-Ghost down and the Father in heaven Fox Persons have flesh and blood t Learnedly T. S. Angels are persons and have not one of them said Angels are not persons u Well versed in Metaphysicks Fox A person is a subsistence T. S. So are Father Son and holy Ghost T. S. Further argued He who denies the Bible to be the word of God saying that to assert Scripture to be the word of God is one of the deceitful immaginations which the Priests of this generation have deceived the people with that man is an Heretick But you deny the Bible to be the word and tell Mr. Townsend that to assert it is one of the deceitful imaginations which the Priests of this generation have deceived the people with See Ishmael and his mother cast out p. 1. lin 1. therefore This was not answered but Fox said they cannot be three persons because they were not visible in several places T. S. If Christ was man and the holy Ghost was in the form of a Dove then they were both seen Fox Prove that they were seen in several places T. S. One was seen in the water the other out Fox Prove they were seen w Fox could not or would not see T.S. Many beheld them both Fox The Holy Ghost could not be seen T. S. He was in the form of a Dove therefore could be seen Fox Not in the form of a Dove but in the likeness x Rare hereat some laughing he answered that he was seen but not visible y Surely his religion reason and wits were lost By this relation it is visible to be seen 1. Their boldness 2. Their crowing without cause 3. Their inability to argue 4. Their little or no learning z At least that any of them will be known of 5. Their strange opinions about the Trinity and Scripture 6. How they run beyond all reason and sense to defend their tenets Lastly Their obstinacy when nâ—ither Scripture reason nor sense can convince them their damnable errours and stupid obstinacy will surely conclude such men Hereticks CHAP. IX A brief relation of three Disputations at Sandwich April 1659. between Fisher Whitehead and Hubberthorn Quakers and Mr. Danson Minister there 1. Disputation April 12. § T. Quakers folly p. 1. Edit 2. Quest WHether every man that cometh into the world be enlightned by Christ Danson We grant every man hath some light by which he discerns though dimly many 1. Sins 2. Duties 3. Divine Attributes but the mysterie of godlinesse 1 Tim. 3. ult God manifest in the flesh justified in the spirit c. we deny that all men have the knowledge of Hubberthorn The light is but one Danson The lights mentioned 1. Naturall and 2. Supernaturall are two though all have the one yet few the other If your meaning be that the knowledge of the Gospel is vouchsafed by Christ to every man I prove the contrary 1. Psal 147.19 20. He sheweth his word unto Jacob his statutes and judgements unto Israel he hath not dealt so with any nation and as for his judgements they have not known them By the Word Statutes and Judgements are meant the knowledge of the Gospel and the Psalmist asserts no nation beside the Jewes had this knowledge at this time 2. Ephes 2.12 Speaking of the Gentiles before Christ the Apostle sayes they were without Christ strangers from the covenant of promise having no hope and without God in the world They who had no hope that is no ground of hope of salvation were ignorant of the promises the ground of hope and so of God in Christ the object of hope and so of the summe of the Gospel Geo. Whitehead Rom. 2.15 sayes The Gentiles have the Law in their hearts Danson It is spoken of the natural light for it s opposed to the knowledge of the Jewes Whitehead It is said to be the knowledge of whatsoever might be known of God Rom. 1.19 Danson The Apostle intends that what might be known of God without the preaching of the Gospel was known to the Gentiles vers 16 17. It is by the Gospel the righteousness of God is revealed John 4.22 Christ tells the Samaritans the Jewes exclusively knew what they worshipped and that salvation was of the Jews and in respect of this Gospel-knowledge the Gentiles are said to have their understandings darkned Ephes 9.18 Whitehead That place sayes that the Gentiles were not so enlightned as afterward for 't is said that Christ was given for a light to lighten the Gentiles Danson It proves not that Christ was a light to the Gentiles in every age and generation but after his coming in the flesh Acts 13.46 47. Loe we turn to the Gentiles for so hath the Lord commanded us saying I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles That of the Ephesians denies the Gentiles at all to have been enlightned by Christ unlesse as God before Christ they were afar off from God and Christ and the knowledge of them Ephes 4.18 Alienated from the life of God In potentia proxima oâ— sensu composito which imports their understandings no more capable of the knowledge of God then creatures of one kind of life to converse with another So that the Gentiles wanted the light of the Gospel and light in their understandings as the light of the Sun is requisite externally and the light in the eye so the Gospel and an enlightned understanding Geo. Whitehead Thou makest the Gospel an outward light But 2 Cor. 4.6 the Apostle says it shines out of darkness in their hearts Danson The Apostle speaks of material light and argues from the effect of one creating word to another that by the like word of command he had the light or knowledge of Christ in his understanding As for in their hearts it is the same with Ephes 1.18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightned the light by which the Gospel is discerned is inward but the Gospel it self outward Whitehead 2 Cor. 4.6 The Apostle sayes The light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ shined in their hearts Danson In whose Not of all mankind but of the Apostles and some others a small number in comparison and therefore vers 3. the Apostle sayes The Gospel was hid to them that were lost And vers 4. There are some to whom the light of the Gospel doth not shine And Mat. 13.11 it was given to the Disciples not to others to know the mysteries of the
all and to leave us in worse then Aegyptian darknesse 5. Against Original Sin Proud Pharisee reproved p. 13. That the Doctrine of Original corruption is a Soul-destroying God-blaspheming doctrine Surely those that boast of perfection are perfect no where neither in their hearts nor words not so much as ad integritatem to soundnesse but wholly corrupt denying Original Sin the old Pelagian Arminian Anabaptistical error so much against first cleer Scripture and secondly sad experience first the Scripture paints us to the life what by Nature and what born secondly and we our selves discover our selves even going astray as it were visibly from the Mothers womb Oh! that they which pretend so much to the extraordianry mind of God should be such strangers to their own hearts 6. Against Justification 1. That this is a blinde doctrine which preaches Hel broke loose p. 22. 23. Burroughs against Firmin p. 21. Naylor against Higgenson p. 8 22. Truths defence p. 95. that righteousnesse which justifies is not in them 2. He that hath a covering for his sins no nearer then above the Stars will one day be found naked 3. The obedience of Christ and of the Creatures is not two Obediences but one 4. That Christ bought us not with the price of his blood that was shed upon the Crosse at Jerusalem onely These tenets 1. how derogatory are they to Christ 2. how comfortlesse to sinners 3. how crosse to the designe of God to exclude boasting 4. yea how pernicious to Souls first in tempting them to the rejecting the righteousnesse of God of Faith of Christ and secondly seeing after a righteousnesse of their own which they shall never attain unto 5. How neer of kin to those positions of the Papists de justificatione but either we must stop our eares to such doctrine or refuse to open them to plain Scripture 7. Against religious Education That for Masters and Mistresses to make their Servants read Scriptures Proud Pharisee reproved p. 37. and to bring them to the publick Ordinances argues a persecuting Bonner-like spirit and is a seeking to dethrone Christ and is treason against the King of Saints and his tender Lambs What is this Gen. 18.19 but first to load with calumny and reproach that which God highly commends in Abraham secondly and to deter men from that which God in the Old and New Testament doth so inforce upon them Thirdly but all is of designe that first so Children and Servants may be left as a prey to them secondly and God altogether forsaken in the next generation and his name nor named among men 8. Of Light within To shew they are in Darknesse and would hold men there they assert heterodoxes concer-cerning the Light within as Answ to Westmerland Petition pag. 14. 1. That the Light which is in every one that comes into the world shews a mans sin and evil and the deceipts of his own heart They are strangly confused in holding out their Light and know not how well to distinguish inter conscientiā naturalē a natural conscience mentem divinitus illuminatam a minde illuminated with Gospel revelations they finde Christ called the light Joh. 1.9 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and of him said that he lightneth every one that cometh into the world and that in men naturally there is a Conscience excusing or accusing and these things they strangely jumble together that natural light lux concreata ut naturâ insita doth and will convince men of many sins is undeniable teste experientia by experience but that by the light thereof a man may come to the knowledge of all transgression and be able to see into the bottom of his heart r Jer. 17 9. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 who but an ignorant one in Gods word will affirm 2. That it is pure Naylors answer to Harris p. 11. and whosoever beleeves and followes it shall not abide in darknesse but shall have eternal life Then Christ is in vain if righteousnesse could have been by the Law Christ dyed in vain s Truths defence pag. 86. Gal. 2.21 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but in as much as it was weake God sent his Son t Rom. 8.3 c. so if life could have been natures light what need Christ have come to be a light to lighten the Gentiles u Luk. 2.32 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that were without God and Christ strangers from the Covenant aliens from God w Ephes 2.12 through the ignorance that was in their mindes x Ephes ◠18 Naylors answer to Higgenson p. 6. Wickednesse weighed p. 22. Farnworth against Hagger p 57. Naylers answer to Higgenson p. 5. Farnworth against Hagger p. 54. Naylers answer to Harris p. 15. Farnworth against Haggers pag. 48. Burroughs against Firmin p. 18. 19. Answer to Bork p. 6. 7. Hubberthorn against Winterton p. 8. Burroughs answer to Bunnion p. 18. 3. They make it all and every thing quidlibet ex quolibet as appears by those assertions of theirs 1. Christ is this light 2. it is the Light and Spirit of Christ 3. it is the Light Spirit and power of God to Salvation 4. the perfect Law of Liberty 5. the Lord God and the Lamb is the Light within me 6. it is the Light of the Covenant of Grace 7. It is God and when Paul committed the Saints to God it was to the light within them 8. it is the word of Faith 9. Reason and understanding 10. a perfect rule in every mans Conscience 11. that in a man which is just equal and righteous telling him he ought not to do wrong 12. that from which the Scriptures were given forth 13. the same thing with the light and life of Adam in Paradise 14. No other thing then the light of the Gospel 15. the same light with the anoynting both in Beleevers and in Unbeleevers A pretious thing if they could tell what but thus they speak Truths defence p 67. Esay 8.20 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 because the Light is not in them but by this Light a man may see a designe of darknesse there is as 1. to take men off from the Scriptures 2. To lul asleep their own Consciences when they alone shall be judge of their own actions To prepare them to receive any dictates that an impudent fellow shall dare to impose from the Light within him 4. To give men up into the immediate hands of the Devil to be absolutely at his command when he shall strangely suggest any thing to them taking his impulses of darknesse to proceed from Conscience Spirit Christ God within them as is plain in Gilpin and Tolderrey These are grand Errors Heresies Blasphemies of theirs razing the very foundation leading men from God Christ Scripture unto the Devil and Destruction other grosse absurdities there are for uno concesso sequuntur millia but because we have sufficiently raked already in a filthy Dunghil we shall but onely name them 1. That of
neighbour Pro. 12.26 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 there is a worthiness of Sex there is a difference between hic and haec superiority in relations the man is the head of the woman 1 Cor. 11.3 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a hoary head m Goliah pag. 63. would foolishly avoid it by saying wisdom is the gray hair M. Danson that young men must honour parts and places that carry reverence in the face of them this man by the light within him cannot or will not read the fifth Commandment written in his heart but one day conscience will accuse him I had not said so much but that he layes such stresse upon it in words before This Priest is a bolsterer of men up in their sins and sowes pillows under their armes for he calleth them WORTHY that are his hearers a worthy proof and most unworthy charge And whether tends this but to make all men of no esteem that are not adorned with the jewel of grace nor those neither unless Quakers 3. Again in his Allarm p. 116 ult Let all Rulers and Magistrates cease their medling with setling the things of Gods Kingdom for I have seen they have all been broken to pieces as soon as they go about that work for the Lord will do his worke himselfe but he will break the great Potsheards of the earth to pieces if they meddle with those things that concern the setling of his kingdome with more to the same But Answ 1. But why all this That they might destroy and none might let They that have so much boldness now what would they then make all bow or break before them It is not forgotten into what a condition we had almost been cast into by you 2. The Lord hath alway done his work himselfe and yet hath vouchsafed to make use of means Moses David Solomon even to build Josias Hezekias Zerubbabel to repair And when he speaks of Gospel times he doth engage to do great things by great men whose wealth and power and dignity should much conduce to Heirusalems glory 3. And it is evident enough were the Quakers but Lords in the earth they would meddle with the things of God and Christ not to build but pull down with a witness in principle practice perswasions and great threatning words Eph. 2.2 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 they do now what lies in them and more too but that they are holpen by the Prince of the ayre which workes in the children of disobedience and leads them captive at his will 4. In the Questions at the end of A Gag for Quakers p. 4. Q. 14. there is this query put Do not you say that the Magistrate who makes Acts of Parliament and doth not receive them from God as Moses did doth act contrary to the Law of God as I made in the Book called Fiery darts of the Devill quenched printed by Calvert 1654. and subscribed by six Quakers the answer to this is YEA Are you not ashamed Have you no more wit then thus to speak out and confirm it with a Yea What doth this but at once cut off the head of all humane Lawes and make Magistracy even an ineffectual cipher not in any capacity to make Laws pro hic nunc they have forgotten ex malis moribus nascuntur bonae leges that the wickednesse of the times timely occasions good Laws but the tendency of this is most pernicious to perswade men to rule and he ruled by the pretence of immediate Revelations and then the Devill will play Rex indeed witnesse but that sad story of Munster l. 1. c. 3.4 mentioned in the first Book where all was done by pretence of Inspiration till all was undone the like in all circumstances never being acted under the Sun God give our K. and Senators wisdom to enact wholsome Laws in such a time as this for the establishing of truth righteousnesse and peace and then shall we and our posterity in the obeying of them be happy and have great cause to blesse the great Law-giver though he give not Laws to them as sometime to Moses 5. In the same Author q. 16. is it not confessed by your selves in Sauls errand p. 4. and attested by several Justices of the Peace Ministers of the Gospel and people in the County of Lancaster that you teach Doctrines that break the relation of Subjects to their Magistrates Baxters Quakers Catechism p. 16. I know the highest of your Sect do forbid your owning of such relations See Tolderry before Cap. 3. a sufficient answer with Gotherson afterward to Naylors denying of it Wives to their Husbands Children to their Parents Servants to their Masters Congregations to their Ministers and of a People to their God Answ Our Doctrine tends to the breaking no true relations Reply It seems you think those no true Relations But here once for all Let me take an occasion to raise up against them an enemie from among themselves who though in other things theirs yet in this of naturall relations and some other things is clear and full against them Epist 4. Allarm p. 50. AMong those tender Lambs of Christ those Babes that are born again those plants of the Lords right hand trees of his own planting that are full of sap the Cedars of Lebanon I mean those that are by the wicked of the earth the men of this world in scorn called Quakers By this you see what an high account he hath of them and how low of all beside them Among those is crept in wicked deceivers ungodly men and ungodly women even as Judas crept in amongst the Apostles such who thinke that gain is godliness such who follow Christ for the loaves such as thinke they can serve two Masters God and Mammon Christ and riches Christ and lust Christ and the world Christ and Antichrist We see then 1. Though they boast of perfection yet they are a mingled mixed multitude there are evill and dangerous persons got amongst them 2. That simple people had need to be wary for by this very confession a man is in danger instead of meeting with an honest Quaker to be catched by a Judas a servant of Lust Mammon and Antichrist Such who teach the doctrine of Devills that Paul speaks of Neer kin to Papists denying to marry and to abstain from meats such as turn the grace of God in them into wantonnesse truce breakers breakers of Covenants pretending they were marryed in their carnall estate and they were never moved of the Lord and therefore they may leave their Husbands their Wives This is dangerous enough and the foundation laid broad enough Married in their carnall estate when the man is truly grown more carnall then when married and lusts after strange flesh then shall this serve for a bill of Divorce and when they shall be moved by the Devill then they were never moved by the Lord Are not these such as while they promise to others liberty are themselves