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A09147 The Protestants theologie containing the true solutions, and groundes of religion, this daye mainteyned, and intreated, betwixt the Protestants, and Catholicks. Writen, by the R. F. F. VVilliame Patersoune religious priest, Conuentuall of Antwerpe, preacher of Gods word, and Vicar generall of the holy order of S. Augustin, through the kingdome of Scotland. The 1. Part. Paterson, F. William. 1620 (1620) STC 19461; ESTC S101863 199,694 338

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obtayning of blessednes which only fayth failles to that end The Doctor neuer dreamed that it should suffice without good workes and farre lesse that fayth can saue any mā without workes QVAESTIO XXIX Of the incertitude of Righteousnes VVHerefore denyeth the Papists that a man of his owne propre righteousnes is vncertaine seing the spirit himself giveth testimony to our spirit that we are the sonnes of God as it is written Rom. 8. v. 16. Luth. art 10.11 Kem. in exam sess 6. Calu. in Antid sess 6. lib. 3. iust cap. 2. § 16 17.39 40. ANSVVER YF yow affirme with your Rabbines that all the faythfull assuredly and infallibly ought to belieue with themselues sinnes no wayes to be imputed Who are assured of the remission of sinnes should not say the Lords prayer because of the righteousnes of Christ to what effect rehearse yow the Lordes prayer and why aske yow remission of sinnes saying forgiue vs our sinnes c. Why is not this prayer reiected aswell as the Puritās in Scotland hath reiected the beliefe For if you hold this opinion infallible and true of the certitude of righteousnes the Lordes prayer is no wayes profitable or necessary as is mentioned already in the second quaestion in discouering only fayth c. Therefore no man howsoeuer iust and holy cannot attribute vnto his owne righteousnes without peculiar reuelation of God that infallibiliter confidence in his owne righteousnes which is proped No man is certaine of grace farelesse of remission of sinnes and grounded vpō common reuelation made in holy Scripture that thereby any shall know himself to be in the grace of God it is vncertaine which proposition if it were true Iob would haue been more bold nor any Protestāt who as it were doubting sayd howbeit I were simple yetnotwithstanding my soule is ignorant of that cap. 9 v. 21. where distinctly by the name of simplicitly he names his owne righteousnes absolutly to be vnknown as thought he would say albeit I am iust notwithstanding I cannot confidt to it assuredly Moreouer this assertion is opposed to reason for whosoeuer is certaine of the remission of sinnes estate of grace it falloweth of necessity to haue the same certitude of their conuersion to God with true pennance and others motiues of fayth as charity patience and perseuerance c. requisite to iustification inteire receauing of the sacramentes but none is that can promise to themselues such certitude for no man is assured of his disposition to be supernaturall or in the receauing of the Sacramentes to haue a perfect intention Therfore no man without speciall reuelation of God is certaine to be in the state of grace And consequently the Rabbies of the reformed Synagogue are lyke vnto the serpent in paradise who whyle he promised to our first parents knowledge spoyled him of knowledge broght him in grosse ignorance euen so whyle they would teach the confidence of rightousnes to iustification send vs away empty of righteousnes but wrapped in grosse ignorance with presumption as at lenght is discussed in the third quaestion vt sup OBIECTION It is sayd by the Apostle Rom. 4. v. 16. That it is by fayth according to grace that the promise may be firme which is to say that we are iustifyed by only fayth and that we may be certaine to be confirmed in grace ergo c. ANSVVER THe Apostle meane an other thing for he teacheth men to be iustifyed by liuely fayth in Christ without the obseruation of the old Law and by that fayth we are made certaine and the promisses of grace is fulfilled and this assumptiō is proued in Abraham who belieued him to be a Father of many nations so that this promise of grace is made to Abraham and his fellowers of fayth whether in the tyme of the Law or after without the workes of the Law OBIECTION Lykewyse the Apostle sayth Rom. 8 v. 38.39 I am certaine that neyther death nor lyfe neyther Angells c. Neyther any creature may separate vs from the loue of God Therefore in this lyfe we haue certitude of grace through the certitude of Gods loue which argument Caluin vehemently vrgeth lib. 3. inst cap 2. § 40. That this certitude is not only for S. Paul but also it is a certitude apperteyning to all the faithfull and a perseuerance of the grace of God ANSVVER THis word I am certaine or as Caluin willeth I am persuaded speaketh not of the certitude of only fayth neyther infallibly of the fayth it self but only of morall confidence trust hope as is probable of the frequent common phrase as Rom. cap. 15 v. 14. where the Apostle speaketh confidently of the Romanes saying and I my self also am persuaded of you What is else this persuation but to confidt well Lykewyse 2. Tom. c. 1. v. 5. The Apostle repeates the same saying When I call to remembrance the vnfayned fayth that is in thee which duelt first in thy grād-mother Lois and in thy mother Ewnice I am certaine it dwelleth in thee also Here is no mention made of the certainty of fayth but only a good confidence and trust of them to haue pietie to saluation not to boost of fayth but to hope to haue it OBIECTION IT is sayd by the Apostle Rom. 8. v. 16. That the spirit himself beires witnes to our spirit that we are the sonnes of God And lykewyse S. Iohn 1. Epist cap. 5. v. 10. sayth who belieue in the sonne of God hath the testimony of God himself But the testimony of the holy spirit bringeth certitude therefore all are certaine in themselues to be the sonnes of God ANSVVER THe Scripture is falsly alledge because the meaning of the Apostle to the Romās is that ye H. Ghost with diuerse miracles distributions of giftes did worke wonderfull things in tyme of the primitiue Church for the confirmation of the fayth and to beare witnes of the same fayth vnto all those who worshiped and imbraced the fayth of Christ and keep it in lyfe to be the sonnes of God In this manner also is vnderstood that saying of the Apostle to the Gal. 4. v. 6. Because yee are sonnes God hath send forth the spirit of his sonne in your hartes which cryeth abba Father this witnessing of the spirit is to the wholl Church to no priuate persone as the Apostle sayes Gal. 3. v. 26. saying for yee are all the sonnes of God by fayth which is in Christ Iesu And lykewyse these places verify the same testimony of the spirit to be promised and giuen to his Chrurch as expoundes all the ancient Fathers 1. cor 2. v. 12. 1. Iohn 3. v. 14 4. v. 13 5. v. 19. and not particularly is to be attributed to only one For albeit in the righteous man this affirmatiue might be attributed notwithstanding not so really but by a certaine moral certitude of his own righteousnes good lyfe with hatred to
ANSVVER I Confesse we are called so of only Heretickes but not so of any nation vnder heauen no not of the Turkes neyther is that name of any particular man as Heretickes names be but ●f ●im who in the place of Chr●st gouerneth the Church of God and if all the Popes were nombred to th●s present day all the Protestants are not able to fynd one that is called by this name Pope or any of them to haue inuented any new religion or to haue left any disciple after thē who haue byn named after that name Therefore when we are called Papists I aske of the Heretickes was there euer any that was called Papa by his proper name or did euer any Heresie cōtin●e a thowsand yeare without a name giuen to it but how should the Church descrybe Heresies to vs but by naming them from their proper names for their names shewe who hath instituted and inuented that sect OBIECTION THe Church is belieued by faith but we belieue the holy Catholick Church Therefore it is not seene because saith is not a thing of appearence and seene ANSVVER THe conclusion is false because that which is seen may also be belieued in so far as it hath some thing that is not seene as Christ Iesus was seene wi●h mens eyes a man and was belieued by fa●th God and man as is said 10.20 to S Thomas because thow hast seen me Thomas thou hast beliued that is to say thou hast seen a man and thou hast belieued him to be thy God and Lord euen so we see men with our eyes who appertaine to the Church and those men we belieue to be the holy Apostolik and Catholick Church and in this Church to be only remission of sinnes grace iustification eternall lyfe and therefore out of this multitude of mortall men neyther Saluation nor the fauour of God is to be expected of any other societie or Church OBIECTION CHrist sayes that the Kingdome of God shall not come with obseruation ney●her shall they say behold here or there ●e is ergo the Church cannot be demonstrated and seen ANSVVER THe solution is made in the words following for he sayes behold the Kingdome of God is with yow but Christ denyeth not but the Kingdome his Church may be seen and demonstrated But he answers the folish question of the pharisie who had heard so oft the Kingdome of God preached of Christ who was desyrous to see it it is āswered that Christ is not to reygne in this world after their mynd as other Kinges doe with magnificence and pompe and to place the throne of Maiesty in a certaine place of the Kingdome but he sayes he dorh reygne as he hath begunne in the hartes of men which is his Kingdome whom he doth paint out with his finger saying Mat. 5. Blessed are the poore in spirit for theirs is the Kingdome of God to wit ye are citizens of Gods kingdome the Church from which the pharisies are farr of OBIECTION THe Church is belieued to be Holy and none except the holy appertayn to the Church but holines is not seen knowne with the eyes ergo the Church is inuisible the members of the Church are vnknowne ANSVVER THe conclusion is false for there are Sainctes and holy men in the Church albeit we see them not yet we belieue for to a lyuing tree there adhere many dead branches and in the body of man are many humors and excrementes without life resident in the body and yet notwithstāding all men belieue and say that a man is a lyuing man ergo OBIECTION IT is defended of the Fathers that the Church in this present lyfe is sayd to be beautifull and to be without spot cant 4 Ergo sinners and wicked men are not mēbers of his Church ANSVVER THe Scripture in that place speaketh of the Triumphant Church in Heauen notwithstanding if with S. Greg. cap. 86 Eccl. dogmat Thou cōpa●re it to be the m●litant Church in that sense it is called also beautifull and spotles because of the Sacrament of regeneration which makes her mēbers liuely by inherent righteousnes and grace are made glorious before God and are not obscured and hid as the Donatistes thought with the conuersation of the wicked And albeit as S. Greg. cap. 4. Gen. sayes no iust or holy man doth want sinne yet notwithstanding he fails not to be holy and iust if in affection he retayn holynes and righteousnes and by pennance doth wash away his sinnes carefull to keep himselfe from mortall synnes and is contrite for the venyall saying with the Psalm 50. Create in me a new hart o God OBIECTION THe Church of God is only in the spirit because it is belieued ergo it is inuisible ANSVVER IF the Church be inuisible how hath Christ cōmaunded Matth. 18. to tell the Church and if he heare not the Church let him be c. but if the Church be inuisible how shall she be told and how shall they hear her censure Lykewyse if the Church be the body of Christ and Christians members Rom. 12. 1. Cor. 1. 12. Ephes 15 Coll. 1. If the Chutch be inuisible and only mathematicall how hath the Apostle sayd ye are the body of Christ and members of his members It is true the Protestant Church is inuisible and mathematicall but the Catholick Church is a visible Church as a candell on a candelstick and as the sonne and moone in the firmament Luc. 11. ps 19. For if it had been mathematicall and hid S. Paul should not haue had the prayses of all the Churches 2. Cor. 8. Neyther Dauid would not haue sayd Ps 21. with thee my prayse is in the Church of the people and in the chaire of the elder they doe praise him What the moderne heresies do say about the inuisibility of the Church the same haue the former Heresies done lykewyse as S. Augustin is witnes against the Donatists who would haue included the vniuersall Church in that inuisibility and in a hid corner in Africk QVESTIO XIII Of the pretended reformation of the Protestantes WHerefore enuyously name the Papists our reformed Church deformed Seeing we haue reiected all papisticall doctrine and superstitions of Poperie out of it Bucherus Melan. Piscator Sarcer Caluin c. ANSVVER THat shall we declare friendly without enuy seeing that vnder the pretext of a sounde reformation The Protestāts reformation consistes in denying the article of our Faith ye haue introduced a most horrible deformation concerning the doctrine of fayth and in abolishing all ecclesiasticall discipline in reiecting the generall Counselles in condemning the ceremonies of the Church in dispysing the auncient Fathers and in giuing liberty to the flesh For what is more deformed or abominable in religion then to counfound deforme and deny the faith of Christ For what article of our faith is not deformed and denyed of the Protestantes as appeareth by the iudgement and doctrine of their owne Rabbies Against the 1. article of the
whosoeuer is separated frō this bowels of the Church of necessity he must speake false I say of necessity he must speake false who eyther would not be conceaued or eyther of the mother is made abortiue being once conceaued Which Church Serm ad Catachum cap. 20. He calleth a true mother a godly mother a chast spouse garnished with the dignitye and riches of hir husband not in outward showe by lying deceipt but in veritie which cannot erre And if the prelates of the Church may err consequently the whole Church may err for the people are bound to follow their pastors Mat. 23. v. 3. from whence then is the protestants Church seing the Church is inuisible and hath erred c. OBIECTION IT is written say they the kingdome of God shall not come with obseruation Luc 17 neither shall they say behold here or behold there Luc. 17 v. 21 Therfore the Church which is thè kingdome of God is inuisible and may not be seen ANSVVER IN the same chapter answer is made saying behold the kingdome of God is within yow or amonge yow for in the obiection Christ repelles the vaine opinion of the Pharisies who thought the kingdome of God to haue his beginninge with obseruation of worldly pompe with triumph and publique coronation after the maner of worldly princes makeing his residence in a certaine place of the kingdome He answers them that the Messias shall not reigne that maner of way but in such maner as he hathe begunne to wit in the hartes of men and in his church which then consisted in his Apostles and disciples which in another place he verifieth saying Blissed are the poore in spirit for theirs is the kingdome of God Luc. 6. v. 20. as though he would say yow ar members of the kingdome of God with peace without worldly tumultes and triumphes from which the riche Pharisies are far of Lykewyse S. Pet. 1. epi. cap. 2. v. 5. sayes The Church is a spirituall house to wit not according to the inuisible substance as angells or soules c. Neither sayes he that the Churche consisteth of grosse materialls but of consecrated and sanctified men to God vnited in one body and mynd as was the multitud of belieuers in the dayes of the Apostles OBIECTION Yow haue not come to the mount that may not be touched and to the burninge fyre Hebr. 12. v. 18. 22. But yow haue come to the mount Sion the citie of the liuing God Therfore the Church is not visible for that the citie of the liueing God is not visible ANSVVER THe Apostle in this place denyeth not the visibilitye of the Church but discrybes the beautie of the triumphant Church in calling it heauenly Ierusalem vnto which it is sayd the faithfull haue to approche by faith and hope not that there are two Churches seing that it is all one but builded with diuerse estates to wit perfect and imperfyt vnto which perfection the militant doth labour in faith and hope whill she come to that beauties ende which is descrybed in heauen OBIECTION THose thinges which are belieued ar not seen but in the Creed VVe belieue the holy Catholik Church and therfor the Church being belieued is inuisible ANSVVER MAny things are belieued which notwithstanding are seen as Christ was seen with mans eyes and yet he is belieued the Messias and God and this he proues him self Iohan. 20. v. 29. saying Because thou hast seen me Thomas thou hast belieued ergo Christ was seen and belieued Lykewise in baptisme we see water and the application there of with the prolation of wordes and yet notwithstāding the vertue of the Sacramēt which we see not is effected which is that original synne is takē away iustifying grace is infused a character is impressed in the soule none of these are seen and yet faith belieues them for in all these things there is some things seen and other things belieued euen so in the Church we see with our eyes a company of men professing themselfes Christianes vnder the gouernment of a head but that that company is the very trew Church of Christ we belieue so that some things are seen and some things belieued Is therfore the article of our beliefe to be abolished and to say I see and suppose the Catholik Church and deny to say I belieue the Catholik Church this article conteineth many things more proper to faithe then reason because we see not the elect neither do we know them and yet we firmly belieue them to be in this company as lykewise we belieue this company and Church to be ruled of the holy ghost and yet we see him not and to be without error the piller and ground of veritie and in this Church only to be remission of synnes iustification the infusion of grace hope of eternall lyf the holy scripture and hir true interpretation dispensation of the Sacramentes and the true preaching of Gods word and out of this company and holy Church no mortall man can attain to the fauor of God or eternall saluation all these ar belieued and ar not seen nor known ergo the Church is visible OBIECTION ADam and Eua haue synned therefor the whole visible Church which consisteth in these two persones hath failled and erred Ergo ANSVVER ADam and Eua were not the Church but hir begining neither erred they in teachinge of false doctrine but as priuat persones doing euill or thinking euill OBIECTION IN the tyme of Isai and other Prophetes of the old Testament it appeared to haue failled for Isai sayes 1. cap. v. 3. That Israel hath not known me and in the 6. v. he sayes that from the soale of the foote to the crown of the head there is no whole place Lykewise Hier. 2. v. 29. Ye haue left me sayth the Lord. Et Psal 13. v. 3. All haue declyned and are made altogether vnprofitable there is not one who doth good there is not one VVherupon we gather both the Church to be inuisible and to haue erred ANSVVER ALbeit the whole Church of the Iewes in the tyme of Elias or at any other tyme hath failed which I graunt not notwithstāding it follow not that the Church of Christ hath failed because the Synagoge was not an vniuersall company of Gods peopl but a particular in which were many who liued holy and erred not as Melchisedech Iob Cornelius Centurio the queene of Candies Enuch and all these were found both righteous and faithfull Morouer the Prophet speaketh after the maner of Scripture by reason of the multitude of the wicked which speach passeth as an vniuersal signe how beit in truth all are not such for the mynd of the Prophet is no maner of way to affirme that all men haue falne from God absolutly but such as deny the diuyne prouidence of God saying there is no God and to be none who doth good notwithstanding a little after he declaires some to be good whom he calleth the people of God poor Iacob and Israell and
shalt loue the Lord thy God withall thy hart c. cannot be fulfilled neyther obserued in this lyfe because it is of necessity that who liueth doth loue some other thing by God Therefore all the commandements are not possible to be kept ANSVVER THe Commandements absolutly may be kept in this lyfe of a man instructed and furnished with Gods grace for that precept of the loue of God intendes not that we should loue no other thing or that all the powers of our soule should be so sommerly and intensiuely impendit to his loue but rather he commandes to loue him apprehensiuely that we preferr no creature to God his loue and to loue nothing repugnant to his precepts in so doing in very truth he loueth God with all his hart who in louing God keipt the rest of his Commandements according to Christ saying Ioh. 14. if any man loue me he will kept my wordes OBIECTION IT is sayd in Exod. 20 v. 17. Thou shall not Couet but this commandement cannot be fulfilled in this lyfe seing the flesh is infected with such concupiscence and coueteousnes therefore the Commandements are not possible ANSVVER TO the minor I say a man with the help of Gods grace may fulfill that Cōmandemēdt because by that precept The first motions are not sinne the first motions of concupiscence or motious preuening reason is not inhibited but the interior consent of will For Dauid and S. Paul in conditions are lyke vnto other men subiect to concupiscences and motions of the flesh notwithstanding are sayd to haue keeped the Commandements of God for it is sayd of King Dauid that he walked after God with his wholl hart 3. Reg. 11. v. 34. And lykewyse it is sayd to S. Paul that Gods power is mad perfect through weaknesse 2. cor 12. v. 9. next with this power he atteanes to strenght saying What is able to separat vs from the loue of Christ c. Rom. 8. And by the grace of God I am that I am and his grace was not vaine in me therfore they haue keeped this Commandements But if the motions of coueteousnes and concupiscence had been forbidden by this precept they should haue been sinners but in the contrary they are no sinners except delectatiō cōsent had ben cōioyned therwith but wheras the Apostle sayth Rom. 7. v. 17. That he doth not the good that he would doe because of the sinne that duelleth in him Wherevpon Hereticks hath builded to call the first motions sinne which indeed are not the true names of sinne but rather an inclination or a defect in nature left for a punishement of originall sinne after baptisme in which signification no man is called a sinner absolutly for as S. Aug. com ad Gal. aliud est peccatum habere aliud peccare one thing is to haue finne and another it is to sinne for the one is an euill obiectiue which when delectation and consent is committed and willed doth fall a sinne and therefore S. Paul speaketh no wayes of a sinne to duell in man as a sinne which is by transgression of the Law and consequently with concupiscence and couteousnes as first motiones the Commandements may be keeped QVAESTIO XXVII Of Reall Iustice VVHerefore doth the Papists deny a man to be iustifyed be imputatiue iustice and apprehended righteousnes in the faith of Christ imputed to vs freely of God seeing this is much more to the confort of the consciences of man then inherent righteousnes Luth. serm de natiu Beatae Virginis Mariae Caluin lib. 3. institut cap. 11. § 11.12.13 ANSVVER I say in the iustification of the wicked from the estate of sinne to the estate of grace and adoption to be the sonnes of God by Iesus Christ is done by some gift really inherent in the soule True iustification is an inherent vertue in the soule The Scripture make a positiue signification by which a man for mally is iust by habituall grace and charity as it is proued by the Scripture foresomuch as men are sayd to be washen purged renewed and made whyt which wordes all signify a positiue splendore and comlynesse neyther can ther wordes be vnderstood without a reall quality following as Isai 1. v. 18. sayth If your sinnes were as crymsome they shal be made whyt as snow and if they were read as scarlet they shal be made whyt as wolne Lykewyse Ezech. 56. v. 25. sayth I shall pouer clean water on yow and yee shal be made cleane of all your filthynes and I shall giue you a new hart and a new spirit and I shall place it in the midst of you But this weshing and clenging of the hart cannot be otherwayes vnderstanded but that therby a reale mutation in the will and hart of man to be righteous Lykewyse it is sayd That we are translated frō death tolyf Sanctifyed in the verity and that we are called the sonnes of God 1. Epist Iohn 3. v. 1. are we so by extrinsecall fauour no but by internall vnction by which for mally we are the sonnes of God for the verification of this the Apostle Paul Rom. 5. sayth That the loue of God is poured in our hartes by the holy Ghost which is giuen vs. In which wordes is vnderstood the habitual loue of God towards vs in vs and by which againe we loue God is infused in vs so that by pouring or infusing is signifyed that the whole soule of man is penetrated furnished with Heauenly graces Things naturall supernaturall work their owne effectes The reason of this forsayd of S. Thom. 1.2 summae Quaest 110. art is deduced for if God to naturall operations works hath giuen granted naturall powers by which those functions may be connaturally accommodated to man euen so to supernatural functions God hath giuen such powers and falculties by which these may be as connaturally accommodated to the soule of man Neyther are we according to the Euangely iustifyed by the essentiall righteousnes of God imputed to vs after the opiniō of Osiāder For those places of Scripture teaches righteousnes and grace by which we are made iust to be some thing flowing coming from the grace and righte ousnes of Christ as witnes S. Iohn 1. v. 16. saying Of his fulnesse we all haue receaued grace for grace And likewyse Rom. 1. v. 5. sayth by whome we receaue grace And Eph. 4. v. 7. To eueryon of vs is giuen grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. And so that essentiall imputatiue iustice shall make way to fall into Pelagianisme Imputatiue iustice accordes with the Pelagians who denyed Christ grace necessary to iustification and righteousnes and hereupon the Protestants concludes that we are iustifyed and sanctifyed by the self same iustice wherewith Christ himself is iust which is inherent in him and imputed to vs and apprehended by vs with the reacheing hand of fayth and soe made our owne for in this manner of doing