manners and tongues Thirdly it is repugnant to the nature and end of vocall Prayer that the same should be exercised in a forme of words which people that pray together vnderstand not for prayer is an ascending of the mind to God and according to Aquinas and other Schole-men it is an action of the vnderstanding facultie and in the same people confesse their sinnes and request of God such things as they haue need of They giue thankes for benefits spirituall and temporall general and speciall conferred vpon them and the effect of prayer dependeth vpon their inward humiliation and sence of their wants 2. Chro. 34.27 Psal. 51.19 and vpon their speciall faith in the diuine promises Math. 9.28 Marc. 9.23 and Marc. 11.29 And Tertullian saith God is not so much an hearer of the voice as of the heart But these things cannot be performed where people vnderstand not what they confesse request or praise God for And words are appointed to instruct excite and edifie men and if they vnderstand them not to what vse serueth vocall prayer for we vse not words to teach God but to instruct and excite our selues And hereby the Popish euasion is answered wherein they affirme that euen as When a Supplication is preferred to a King or Iudge which the Suppliant vnderstandeth not it is all one in what language soeuer the same be preferred the Iudge vnderstand it So likewise because God vnderstandeth all languages it mattereth not though people pray to him in a strange tongue for our words in vocal prayer concern our selues mutually principally but God himselfe requireth the vnderstanding and affection of our heart Read S. Augustines words cited in the margent Also the Iewes vnder the Law and the Prophets prayed in a language which they vnderstood our Sauiour and his Apostles and the Primitiue Church did the like and the gift of languages was bestowed vpon Pastors and people in common Act. 2.3 Also the former Doctrine is so apparant that some of the best learned Romists teach that publicke seruice in a knowne language is most fruitfull and conuenient Caietan saith It appeareth by S. Pauls Doctrine that it is better for the edification of the Church that common Prayers which are made in the hearing of the people be said in a vulgar tongue vnderstood indifferently by Priest and people than in Latine Lira saith If the people vnderstand the prayer of the Priest they are better brought to God and they answere Amen with greater deuotion And the reason hereof is manifest for deuotion compunction desire and affection depend vpon vnderstanding and follow the same and the more distinct and particular the vnderstanding of the obiect of these is the more feruent and perfect the actions are IESVIT For we may imagine a triple state of Liturgie in an vnknowne tongue The first in a language altogether vnknowne in which no man in the Church speakes no man vnderstands besides the celebrant himselfe nor he neither but by Enthusiasme or inspiration of the holy Ghost Without question it is inconuenient that publique prayer should be said in a language in this sort vnknowne and this is prooued by the reasons the Apostle brings against an vnknowne tongue in the Church ANSWER This first imagination is a Chimera or 〈◊〉 for there was neuer in the world any such kind of common or ordinarie Seruice or Liturgie And S. Paul 1. Cor. 14. condemneth in generall the vse of vnknowne tongues in the congregation vnlesse they be interpreted and referred to mentall edification As for the vnlearned Ideot which is ready to ioine with the Priest in prayer what is it to him whether the Priest speake by Enthusiasme or by discipline an vnknown language his ignorance and impossibilitie of speciall concurrence in prayer is the same as well in the one as in the other IESVIT Secondly in a language vnknowne to most euen of the better sort of the Church yet some know it and other may with facilitie learne it To vse a language in the Church for publique prayer in this sort vnknowne cannot be prooued vnlawfull nor forbidden by the Apostle seeing the reasons brought by him against a language vnknowne make not against this For S. Paul reprehends in the publique Liturgie a language vnknowne as the Minister of the Church that supplies the place of the Ideot and ignorant cannot vpon his knowledge of the goodnesse of the prayer say thereunto Amen in the name of them all But when the language is knowne to some of the Church and may with facilitie be learned of others there is or may easily be found one able to supplie the place of Jdeot and ignorant and answere in their person Amen out of his intelligence of the prayer in that vnknowne tongue ANSVVER That is forbidden by the Apostle to bee vsed in prayer and consequently it is vnlawfull whereby all states and sorts of people being of ripe yeres may not be edified in their vnderstanding and to which being read pronounced or heard they are not able to say Amen hauing some distinct vnderstanding of the things which are spoken 1. Cor. 14.16 17. 19 20. but all states and sorts of people being of riper yeares cannot be edified in their vnderstanding neither are they able to say Amen c. to prayers which are heard by them being read or pronounced in a strange language Ergo Common prayer read and pronounced in the Church in a strange tongue is prohibited by the Apostle and consequently such forme of ordinarie prayer is vnlawfull The Iesuit restraineth the words of S. Paul either to the Minister supplying the place of the Idiot or to the Clerke of the congregation But the Apostle requireth that all those which ioyne in prayer and among these the Idiots and vulgar sort be edified in their minds and they must pray and giue thanks vnderstanding the sence of words spoken and vpon this vnderstanding say Amen And except saith he ye vtter by the tongue 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 significant words or words carrying a perspicuous sence with them ye shall speake in the ayre and be as Barbarians to the hearers v. 9.11 and the Idiot mentioned by him v. 16. is not the Priest or the Clarke alone but the vulgar sort of people ignorant of the language and words which are vsed in preaching reading or praying as all the Fathers and sundry Pontificians deliuer which comment vpon this text As for the Latine the same is as vncouth to a great part of the congregation as to the Chineses they can onely gape at it and returne home from Masse and Mattens as wise as they went for ought they learne by the language The old rule was Barbarus hic ego sum quia non intelligor vlli and accordingly your Masse Priests are meere barbarians to the ordinarie sort of people IESVIT Notwithstanding the Roman Church doth not
men indeed haue forged in their owne braines an axiome to serue their owne turne to wit That Christians must haue speciall ground out of Scripture for all circumstantiall actions and decencies vsed in diuine worship These we refute or better instruct to bring them into the middle way and wee teach as followeth First that nothing is to be receiued as a part of Catholike faith nor yet to be imposed in religion as a dutie immediately commanded by God which is expresly or deriuatiuely contained in holy Scripture Secondly outward ceremonies and things adiaphorous haue generall warrant in the Scripture in the doctrine of Christian libertie and in the doctrine of the authoritie of the Church And concerning things adiaphorous it is sufficient to make them lawfull that they are consonant vnto the generall rules and principles of Scripture But the Romish doctrine of inuocation of Saints and offering their merits vnto God c. are imposed by them as matters of faith and as a seruice immediately appointed by Christ and his Apostles and they which refuse this worship are condemned as Heretikes with a solemne Anathema Also the said worship is made meritorious and satisfactorie yea many times preferred before that which hath expresse warrant in Gods vndoubted word IESVIT This onely we require that ignorant people bee not Iudges of such inferences an office so farre aboue their capacities as I am persuaded no vnlearned man that hath in him any sparke of humilitie or any mediocritie of Iudgement will vndertake it for no man is competent to iudge assuredly of arguments by deduction from Scripture that hath not exact skill as well of Scripture to know the false sence from the true as of Logicke to distinguish Syllogismes from Paralogismes being able to giue sentence of the truth of Principles by the one and of the inferences by the other a thing so hard as euen learned Diuines doe much suspect their owne sufficiencie to iudge of Deductions and dare not absolutely pronounce their sentence but referre the same to definitions of authoritie which besides skill of Scripture and Logicke hath the promise of Gods perpetuall assistance in teaching the Christian Church ANSWER We are farre from appointing ignorant persons to be Iudges of that which exceedeth their modell and skill 1. Cor. 12. 29. and the tractation of matters obscure and difficile must be referred to the iuditious and learned But the promise of Christ to assist his Ministers in teaching and gouerning their flocke belongeth to other Pastours as well as to the Romane Bishop and his associates to whom we may say as S. Hierome doth in another case Are you alone the Church and is euery one excluded from Christ which offendeth you may you betrample the right of the Church and yet whatsoeuer you doe it must be a rule of Doctrine IESVIT Wherefore if Protestants will binde vs to bring expresse Scripture for the worship of Images adoration of the Sacrament inuocation of Saints they must themselues likewise be bound to bring expresse Scripture against Anabaptists for Christening of infants for their keeping of the Sunday in lieu of the antient Sabbaoth day for their dedicating of dayes in memorie of the Apostles with religious solemnitie for the crosse in Baptisme and other such things obserued in their Religion not expressed in Scripture And if deduction from Scripture or consonancie therewith be sufficient to warrant these customes Why should they mislike the worship and inuocation of Saints for which besides the iudgement of the most flourishing and learned antiquitie that euer was since the Apostles dayes to wit the Fathers of the fourth age confessedly consenting with vs we bring more cleare warrant from scripture than they can bring for the before mentioned obseruation of them religiously kept ANSWER If you will maintaine Inuocation of Saints as a matter of faith or necessarie dutie appointed immediately by God you must confirme the same either by expresse Scripture or by arguments out of the Scripture orby some other reuelation which is infallibly diuine besides the Scripture But if you vrge the same onely as a thing adiaphorous it is sufficient to make the practise lawfull if it be not repugnant to the Scripture But this latter imposeth no necessitie vpon other Churches which haue libertie to prescribe their owne adiaphorous rights The instances which you present vnto vs of infants Baptisme keeping Sunday in liew of the legall Sabboath and the figne of the Crosse in Baptisme arguing from them that some things are of necessarie obseruation and practised by our selues without expresse Scripture to warrant them are answered as before First baptinng of infants is deduced euidently from the Scriptures by the confession of your learned Cardinall Secondly there is expresse mention of the Lords day and of the religious obseruing thereof in the text of the new Testament Act. 20.7 1. Cor. 16.2 And the Primitiue Church immediately succeeding the Apostles testifieth expresly the obseruation of this day to haue beene grounded vpon Apostolicall institution But Romish inuocation of Saints wanteth the former of these totally and Papists can hardly name one authenticall Authour of the first 500 yeare which affirmeth that inuocation of Saints is a diuine or Apostolicall tradition Thirdly the signe of the Crosse in Baptisme is an antient ceremonie but yet adiaphorous and therefore expresse Scripture is not necessarie to warrant the vse of it But your inuocation of Saints and Image worship are made matters of faith and for the practise so inuiolable that the liuing Saints and Images of God must be destroyed and consumed in the topheth of your inquisition if they will not bend and bow the knee according to your tradition IESVIT § 2. Knowledge of Prayers made to them communicable and communicated vnto Saints THe second cause why Protestants dislike praying to Saints is for that they thinke by teaching that Saints heare our Petitions we attribute vnto them knowledge proper to God onely for Saints cannot know all Prayers made to them without seeing at once what is done in euery part of the world nor know the sincere deuotion wherewith they are done without seeing the secret affections of mens hearts but to know what is done in all parts of the world and the secrets of hearts is knowledge proper to God Therfore we cannot teach that they heare our Petitions without attributing to them knowledge proper to God To this exception answere is made That knowledge proper to God is of two kinds the one so proper as it is altogether incommnnicable with any creature and such is the comprehension of his diuine essence The second is proper so that naturally creatures are not capeable thereof yet the same may be imparted vnto them by supernaturall light eleuating them to a high and diuine state aboue the possibilitie of nature In this kinde is the vision of the diuine essence face to face which being granted vnto Saints
knowledge of the heart Secondly Our Sauiours words Luk. 15.10 are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the conclusion of a Parable which must not be strained beyond the true scope But according to the exposition of sundrie Fathers and some learned Papists The hundred sheepe Vers. 4. represent the whole Bodie of the Elect consisting of men and Angels The ninetie and nine sheepe not lost were the Angels persisting in their prime integritie The stray sheepe all mankinde sinning in Adam To recouer this lost sheepe the Sonne of God that good Shepheard Iohn 10. 11. was incarnate and by the gracious worke of Redemption he laid the same on his shoulder Now there is great ioy in heauen before the coelestiall Angels for this recouerie and saluation of mankinde But if this exposition be admitted no more can bee inferred but that the Court of heauen and in the same the holy Angels reioyce because of mans Redemption Neither is it consequent the holy Angels reioyce because of the conuersion and reduction of mankind Ergo They know distinctly and perpetually the particular qualitie of euery indiuiduall sinners repentance Lastly If the said words Luke 15. 10. bee vnderstood of sinners in particular this Text yet falleth short to prooue that all the caelestiall Angels perpetually and at the very instant know the particular true repentance of euery sinner indiuidually for the same may bee vnderstood according to this supposition or reflection to wit There is ioy before the Angels of heauen ouer one sinner which repenteth when the repentance of this one sinner is made knowne vnto them but it is not said neither can it bee inferred That coelestiall Angels know constantly and at all times when each indiuiduall person repenteth truely Our Aduersaries therefore cannot ground an infallible Doctrine touching Angelicall science vpon a branch of a Parable which according to themselues admitteth diuers expositions and the consequence whereof is not necessarie but contingent and vpon supposition IESVIT Saint Paul saith We are made a spectacle vnto God and Angels and he adiureth Timothie by God and his Angels which shew that wee liue in the sight of Angels and that they behold what we doe and heare what wee say euen in our hearts ANSWER Saint Pauls words are 1. Corinth 4. 9. Wee are made a spectacle to the world and to Angels and men Angelis laudantibus vituperantibus hominibus laudantibus vituperantibus saith Saint Augustine To good Angels praysing vs to euill Angels dispraysing vs to good men commending vs and to wicked men condemning and deriding vs. The Consequence of this Argument Wee are a spectacle to Angels therefore Angels vnderstand and see our thoughts is childish for as Saint Paul was a spectacle to Angels so hee was a spectacle to good men and bad men and yet the Iesuite will blush to argue hence Ergo Good men and bad men behold the heart Secondly As Saint Paul saith I testifie before God and the Elect Angels so Moses saith I call this day Heauen and Earth witnesses Deuteron 4. 26. 32. 1. And Esay saith Heare oh Heauens and hearken oh Earth Chap. 1. v. 2. Euery creature therefore which God calleth to witnesse or adiureth man by is not a fearcher and beholder of the thoughts and affections of the heart IESVIT But as the same Scripture auerreth The Saints are like vnto the Angels and equall vnto the Angels and in heauen the same is the measure of a man and of an Angell Ergo Knowledge of our Prayers is not to bee denied vnto glorious Saints the fellowes of Angels ANSWER Matth. 22. 30. Our Sauiour saith That in the Resurrection neither shall they marrie nor bee married but are as the Angels of God in heauen Luke 20. 36. They which shall bee counted worthie of that world and the resurrection from the dead neither marrie nor take wiues neither can they die any more for they are equall to Angels and are the children of God seeing they are the sonnes of the Resurrection In these words First The subiect is Iust people at the Resurrection Secondly Concerning these our Sauiour affirmeth That they shall not marrie c. Thirdly They shall bee as Angels and equall to Angels Fourthly Hee expresseth wherein they shall be so to wit first in freedome from secular Actions and Passions secondly in glorious Adoption or reall Possession of all the priuiledges of the sonnes of God Now I admire what Papists can extort from hence for inuocation of Saints for there is no connexion betweene this Antecedent and Consequent to wit Iust men at the resurrection shall liue as Angels remote from all the necessities of a worldly life and they shall be as the Angels of God free from materiall and corporeall passions and equall to the Angels in fruition of blessednesse Ergo the knowledge of our prayers which we make in this life is not to be denied vnto glorious Saints the fellowes of Angels The place of the Reuelations chap. 21.17 is expounded by learned Papists three waies First the beatitude of men and Angels shall be measured with the same modell to wit according to the proportion of their grace charitie Secondly men shall attaine the measure of Angelicall glorie by succeeding into the place of them that fell Thirdly the hundred fortie foure cubits mentioned in that place were meated by a measure containing the length of a man which was the meat-wand or measure which the Angell held in his hand And this latter exposition of the Text is the literall sence according to Alchasar Ribera c. But from none of these expositions doth the Iesuits Argugument conclude not from the first the last as is apparant to all men neither yet from the second for although the blessed Saints attaine the measure of Angelicall glorie and fill vp the place which the declining Angels lost Yet Angels may haue some power and actions in respect of their present ministerie to the Church militant which are diuers and distinct from the power and actions of glorified Saints For if Angels themselues although they are equall in essentiall beatitude yet they differ in power and actions according to the Tenet of the Schole then much more men and Angels although they partake in the same obiectiue blessednesse yet they may haue different actions and accidentall perfections and consequently Angels in regard of their office may be able to know and vnderstand that which blessed Saints do not IESVIT Neither could Saints without knowlege of humane affaires be perfectly blessed blessednesse being a state wherein all iust and reasonable desires of nature are satisfied with vttermost content And who can thinke that Saints full both of glorie and charitie do not earnestly desire to know such things as may concerne their honour done vpon earth and the state of their friends and louers liuing in danger to succour them by their intercessions of whose saluation they be
Mercie floweth into the admirable Vessell and Basin the Virgin Marie and the other part to wit of Iustice which was poured vpon the Altar he hath left vnto Christ. Thus writeth Benzonius a famous Romane both by birth and Religion in our dayes Blasius Viegas a moderne Iesuit applyeth also this absurd comparison of Assuerus and Esther to Christ and the Virgin Marie And these Authors with the rest whom they follow doe not intend onely to teach That the blessed Virgin is very gracious with Christ in respect of her intercession but that shee hath a right and authoritie as a Queene Regent to distribute mercie and benefits where shee pleaseth and to dispence with the Lawes of Iustice when there is cause as appeareth by the words of Ozorius the Iesuite citing out of Nunne Bridgets Reuelations Christs words following My mother in my Kingdome ruleth as a Queene c. and therefore shee may dispence with Lawes made by me when there is iust cause And by this speech Nunne Bridget intendeth to shew that Christ did vse the helpe of his mother Marie in ruling his Kingdome now this Osorius was a Iate Preacher in Portugall Our English Iesuits when they returne to vs dissemble and cloake this Superstition not because they dislike it for they and the rest are all Birds of a feather and feed their silly chicks with the same carraine but they prudently consider that such notorious blasphemies being published would appeare odious and hinder their successe in beguiling vnstable soules and minister greater aduantage to their Aduersaries therefore like the Steward in the Gospell commended for his craft but not for his honestie when their Tenet is an hundred they write downe fiftie and when their Doctrine is blasphemous they confesse a pettie ouersight or vnfitnesse in the phrase and manner of speaking But if in good earnest they disliked the former assertions why hath not the grand Senior of Rome siue cum Concilio siue sine Concilio condemned rased and purged out these sacrilegious blasphemies especially because in other Authours their expurgatorius Index hath Eagles eyes and a line or sentence cannot escape these Critickes if there appeare obloquitie or antipathie to their inueterate forgeries Now for a Conclusion of the former Question let it be obserued That the Aduersarie is deficient in the demonstration of his Popish Tenet concerning Inuocation of blessed Saints and Angels for he hath produced no Diuine Testimonie from sacred Scripture no Tradition from the Apostles no plaine and resolute definition of approoued Councels or Primatiue Fathers no sufficient argument of naturall reason yea the mayne Principles of his Doctrine are litigious and dubious amongst Pontificians themselues Hee hath strugled playing fast and loose with our Arguments and spent himselfe in soluing or rather in eluding of obiections but he confirmeth not his owne St. Augustine saith That in things diuine or which concerne saluation they offend grieuously Qui certis incerta preponunt which preferre vncertainties before that which is indubitate Nostra fides certa est ex Doctrina Apostolica nouo veteri Testamento confirmata Our faith concerning the direct inuocation of the deitie by Christ our Mediatour of intercession is right and a certaine Apostolicall Doctrine confirmed by the Old and New Testament The Popish Appendix concerning Inuocation of Saints wanteth all Scripture proofe and whatsoeuer else may be pretended for it is dubious and litigious therefore our Doctrine is of faith and the Popish Tenet of humane opinion or presumption THE FOVRTH POINT THE LITVRGIE AND PRIVATE PRAYERS FOR THE IGNORANT IN AN vnknowne Tongue IESVIT THe Custome of the Romane Church in this Point is agreeable to the Custome of the Churches in all ages and also of all Churches now in the world bearing the name of Christian though opposite vnto the Romane only those of the pretended reformation excepted which constāt concurrence is a great figne that the same is very conforme vnto reason and not any where forbidden in Gods Word which will easily appeare if we looke particularly vnto the same ANSVVER YOu lay your foundation of this Article vpon two apparant vntruths for the Doctrine and custome of the present Romane Church is not onely not agreeable but opposite both to the Doctrine and Practise of the antient Catholicke Church and also to the custome of other Churches which are not absolute Protestants First It is the common voyce of the Fathers That the Liturgie and Seruice of the Church was in their dayes and ought to be vsed in a knowne tongue Origen saith That in his dayes euery nation prayed to God in their owne Language the Grecians in Greeke the Romanes in Latine and all other people in their proper tongue Iustin Martyr Tertullian Clemens Alexandrinus affirme That the Priest and the people prayed ioyntly and in common in the publicke Seruice which argueth that the people vnderstood the Prayers And St. Cyprian requires That peoples hearts and words agree and that they heare and vnderstand themselues when they pray to God Saint Basil saith When the words of Prayer are not vnderstood by them which are present the minde of the Precant is vnfruitfull neither doth any man hereby reape any profit St. Chrysostome St. Ambrose affirme the like And St. Augustine requireth people to vnderstand what they pray and sing for if there be onely sound of voyce without sence they may bee compared to Parrats Owsells or Popiniayes And some of the best learned Papists to wit Thomas Aquinas Lyra Cassander acknowledge That in the Primatiue Church the common Seruice was vsed in the vulgar tongue Secondly it is false according to the Tenet of Bellarmine himselfe that all other Churches which differ from the Protestants haue their publique seruice in Hebrew Greeke or Latine Bellonius and Aluares affirme the contrarie of the Armenians and Abissines and Eckius of the Indians and Sigismundus Baro and Hosius of the Russians and Ledesma of the Egyptians and Armenians And AEneus Syluius reporteth That when Cyrillus and Methodius had conuerted the Saluons vnto Christ were suitors that they might administer the common Prayers and Seruice among them in their vulgar tongue The Pope in the Conclaue consulting about this matter a voice was heard as it were from Heauen saying Let euerie Spirit praise the Lord and let euerie tongue acknowledge him and hereupon they were permitted to vse their owne tongue And it appeareth by the Decretals that the Roman Church in former times did ordinarily appoint this for the words of the Canon are For as much as in many places within one Citie and one Diocesse there be nations mingled together speaking diuers tongues c. We therefore commaund that the Bishops of such Cities and Diocesses prouide meet men to minister the holy Seruice according to the diuersitie of their
commanded points of Controuersie to bee decided according to the rule of holy Scriptures as I shall heereafter make manifest in this Treatise yea sometimes the doctrine of one sound member of the Church hath beene a Soueraigne meanes to conuert errants and consequently to reforme such as were misled by errour Neither is reformation vnreasonable or impossible although they which reprooue others are themselues exorbitant in some things because the same must bee performed not by accomodation to the humor of Reproouers but according to the diuine rule wherein all things are straight and perfect Lastly when the Roman Church it selfe is in Schisme and Combustion which hapned at the Councell of Constance and Basill and in the dayes of Antipopes shall no reformation be required because the Parties litigant being of contrarie opinions the same cannot be proportioned according to euery ones seuerall humour The second reason taken from Councells Customes c. is deficient in both the parts For neither are the Romish doctrines to wit Communion in one kind Popes pardons Latin Seruice Purgatorie Apocryphall Scriptures Vulgar Translation preferred before the Originall Text Transubstantiation c. defined by any generall Councell or deriued from the Apostles or Primitiue Church by custome and vniuersall consent And later Councells and Customes must giue place to holy Scripture Yea according to S. Augustine no vnderstanding man did euer make the Councells of Bishops equall to Sacred Scripture And some of our learned Aduersaries confesse That a generall Councell of Popes Cardinalls and Bishops is not of equall Authority with the Colledge of the Apostles Others also of them affirme That such Councels are fallible and subiect to errour The third reason wherein it is affirmed That Protestants forsaking the common rule of Faith present the world with Scriptures vnderstood by priuate Illumination is grounded vpon a false suggestion for we assume to our selues no other Illumination than only of ordinarie grace and we maintaine no other exposition of Scripture as diuine but such as is deliuered by the holy Ghost in the Scripture And the sence of holy Scripture deliuered by the Primitiue Church is followed by Protestants with farre more respect than by Romists But our Aduerfaries are the men who dissembling the same in words doe in truth maintaine priuate Illumination For they affirme That the Bishops of Rome haue infallibilitie of Iudgement by the immediate inspiration of the Holy Ghost and not by the studie and meditation of holy Scripture IESVIT Wherefore there beeing no possibilitie that the Catholike part could gaine Peace to Christendome by any yeelding vnto our Aduersaries either reasonable or vnreasonable whither should louers of Concord turne themselues but vnto your gracious Maiestie that haue in your Power the Affections of Protestants and therefore would bee the fittest Instrument for their Re-vnion with the Romane Church The God of Charitie hath put into your Maiesties Heart a desire of Vnitie of the Church and in your Hand an Oliue-Bough-Crowne of Peace which you may set on the Head of Christendome which wearie of endlesse Contention poureth foorth vnto your Maiestie her Suppliant Complaint Quem das finem Rex magne laborum And seeing nothing hindereth but that your selfe are not yet satisfied in some Doctrines of the Roman Church particularly in the Nine Points your Maiestie hath set downe in writing J humbly present vnto your Maiestie these my poore Labours for your satisfaction so much desired of the Christian World And to the end that this my Answere may be in it selfe more solid and better accepted of your Maiestie before J descend vnto particulars J thinke best first to shew in generall the Romane to bee the onely true Church For this was the Occasion and Subiect of the Conference betwixt Dr White and mee ANSWER What a vast and impossible I will not heere say impious enterprise doe you in the depth of your sublimated wit cast vpon our Gracious Soueraigne Must his Maiestie haue the Office of a Proctor and Factor for the Court of Rome nay of a Lieutenant of the Papall Forces to revnite all Protestants to the Church of Rome Had you meant the procuring of a Free Generall Coancell of all Christendome or at least of all the Westerne Church for the reducing eyther of the Deuiate parts home to the Truth or the exasperated parts to a more charitable complying in things indifferent or tollerable in which discussion as well the Papacie it selfe as other matters might bee subiect to Tryall such a Worke might be fit for a Church-man to mooue and for his Majestie to affect than whom no Prince no nor priuate Christian is more forward in Zeale and furnished in Wisedome to purge the Distempers and heale the Wounds of the Christian Church But your former words shew the frensie of the Demand when you fore-lay this for a Ground Satis imperitè nimis obstinatè That those particular Enormities that wee Protestants call to haue reformed are the verie Foundations of the Vnitie of Faith Catholike Principles c. And so this your dreamed Re-vnion must bee not to come on your part one step towards vs but our running headlong to you which is no other than a slauish subjection of all Churches to the Papacie and the trampling Gods Truth and Gods People vnder the foot of the vnerrable vncontroulable Grand Seigniour of the seuen-Hilled Citie It seemeth you haue forgotten or would extinguish the validitie and memorie of his Majesties most judicious Writings in maintenance of Orthodoxe Religion and of the Libertie of Christendome and shaking the verie Foundations of Papall Corruptions and Tyrannie Otherwise you neuer would thus boldly and leaudly call to so puissant a Champion in the Lords Battailes to sound Retreat To whom the state of Christendome to speake in your phrase poureth foorth her Suppliant Complaint but to an end opposite to your Projects Qua Roma patet fera regnat Erinnis In facinus iurasce putes Dent ocius omnes Quas Meruere pati sic stat sententia poenas TOVCHING THE NECESSITIE OF VNderstanding the Qualitie of the ROMAN CHVRCH IESVIT Thinke best first to shew in generall the Roman to be the onely true Church For this was the occasion and subiect of the conference betwixt Dr. WHITE and me and is the most important and manifest point of controuersie in which all other are inuolued ANSVVER THe most important Neither most nor important at all to all but onely to those who are either inuolued in that Church or vexed by it If people may attaine saluation without knowing the qualitie of the Romane Church then it is not of all Questions and Controuersies most important to know whether the Romane Church is the true Church or not But many people may bee saued without this knowledge for all they may attaine saluation which are baptised and which beleeue and repent Mark 16 16. Acts 2 38. and which haue all the ordinarie meanes of Saluation
vse no Image made of sensible matter but such onely as is perceiued by vnderstanding But if we consider the Pictures and Puppets which now a daies in most places our Romists make of the blessed Virgin we may wish that they had made only dead or confused pourtraitures And what Christian eyes if not bleared with the fogge of Superstition can with patience behold the dresses attires and various fashions wherin they 〈◊〉 present the B. Virgin yea many times like a Curtesane or after the lightestand most immodest fashions of the world What proportion or correspondence is there with the sampler in these prodigious formes IESVIT The office of an Jmage is to carrie the imagination of the beholders thereof directly and immediatly to the person imagined therein Jmagination of parts in the person represented answering vnto the parts seene in the Image which kind and vse of Images nature allowes vnto men to the end they may remember and more fully imagine persons absent and remooued from their corporall fight vpon whom they ought and haue great desire liuely and staidly to fix their imaginations and thoughts ANSWER Images of visible persons and creatures may leade the imagination of Beholders to the Person and Creature represented by them But Images of Christ and of the Trinitie and of the glorified Saints are deficient in their expression and representation and they may misleade the imagination and ingender a carnall conceit of those Persons and also hinder the spirituall knowledge and Faith which people ought to haue of them The Spirit of God which knoweth best what helpes are vsefull and necessarie to eleuate our mindes to spirituall Contemplation hath left vs his Gospell wherein Christ Iesus is depainted before the eyes of our soule Galathians 3. 1. And also the holy Sacraments which are visible signes and Seales of Grace but if painted and carued Images had beene such motiues and effectuall meanes to infuse godly memorie and heauenly desires into our hearts as 〈◊〉 pretend wee may be assured that our great Paraclete would haue expresly appointed and recommended the same in his Word so farre would hee haue beene from perpetuall defacing of Images and condemning the ordinarie vse of them in his Worship I answere therefore It may bee the Office or vse of some Images to wit of such as agree with the Prototype and which are permitted by the Word of God and are lawfully made and vsed to leade the imagination of the beholders to the remembrance of the person and thing imagined But if people presume beyond their modell and aduenture to delineate that in Pictures and Images which they know not and inuent a kinde of Teaching which was not learned in the Schoole of Christ their owne inuentions prooue snares and their Images beget vaine imaginations to say no worse of them IESVIT Hence ariseth the allowed Principle of Nature receiued by all Nations ciuill and barbarous Ita vt in eo to speake with Saint Augustine Nulla Doctorum paucitas nulla indoctorum turba dissentiat That the Image may and ought to stand for the Prototype and is by imagination to be taken as if it were the verie person and what wee outwardly doe to the Image is done by imagination vnto the person As when wee kisse the hands and feete of the Jmage in our imagination wee kisse the hands and feet of the Person inwardly imagined by his Image ANSWER It is no Axiome of Nature that euerie Artificiall Image deuised by man may and ought to stand for the Prototype and is by imagination to bee taken as if it were the very Person and what wee outwardly doe to the Image is done by imagination to the Person but onely of such Images as are lawfully appointed either by Ciuile or Diuine Ordinance to these ends The brasen Serpent was a Figure and Image of Christ and yet it did not in such sort stand for the Prototype as that outward Adoration and burning of Incense might lawfully be done vnto it In like sort the Paschall Lambe was a figure of Christ Ioh. 1. 29. cap. 19. 36. and yet no holy 〈◊〉 kissed or saluted or censed or bowed downe to the Paschall Lambe The Cherubins according to our Aduersaries Tenet were Images and yet they were neuer honoured or adored with kissing kneeling Incense or any other signe in speciall directed to them And if any man saith Vasques hold otherwise it is a conceit of his owne braine hauing no foundation It is not necessarie therefore according to the Law of Nature but at the furthest contingent to exhibite the same outward Actions of Honour Loue Reuerence and Obeysance to Figures and Images which belong to the Principall In ciuile Comportment it is lawfull and in some cases it is a matter of dutie to be vncouered and to vse reuerence in the Kings Chamber of Presence and before his Chaire of Estate when his Person is absent but these and the like Actions exceed not the bounds of ciuile Obseruance In the Church which is Gods house wee vncouer our heads and wee kneele and make Obeysance before the Altar or Communion Table not to the figure of the Temple or to the Table materially or formally considered but to Christ himselfe And when wee worship towards the East as the antient Christians did if there be a Crucifix painted in the Window for Ornament or Memorie wee direct no part of our Obeysance to that painted Image but to our blessed Sauiour who hath visited vs 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as the Day or Easterne Light from on high Luc. 1. 78. And it is so farre from beeing vniuersally true that the Image is to be taken for the Prototype that in some cases wee may adore the one and deface and abolish the other as appeareth in the Brasen Serpent If saith Alphonsus Castro Christian people were in our dayes as prone to Idolatrie as the people of Israel then were and that they could not otherwise be reclaimed I should thinke that Images were to be broken in peeces The same is affirmed by Corduba and Tapia IESVIT This is the Axiome of Philosophie gathered out of Aristotle Idem est motus in imaginem exemplar For Motion proceeding from the bodie and from the mind what the bodie doth really and externally to the Image the mind doth imaginarily that is by conceit and affection to the person ANSVVER Principles of Nature containing themselues within their owne bounds are to be embraced but sacred and religious Actions are regulated by a Diuine and supernaturall Modell 1. Cor. 2. 5 6 9. c. The Word of God hath set a blacke marke vpon Images deuised by man when they are applyed to worship And therefore although in humane and ciuill vse the Image might in some sort stand for the Prototype and by imagination be taken and vsed as the person resembled by it yet in things religious and sacred it is otherwise When the
sight of the inferiour world and of the secrets of hearts is without cause reputed incommunicable with them according to the saying of Saint Prosper Nothing is so secret as the knowledge thereof may bee denyed vnto the perfectly Blessed their seeing God with pure vnderstanding being without comparison a thing more excellent Thus Saint Prosper whose Argument doth conuince That Saints may know what is done in the world and also the secrets of hearts For to see the whole world and what is done in it is not higher knowledge nor requires a more perfect vnderstanding than to see face to face the Diuine essence immense and incomprehensible before whom the world is no more than Momentum staterae guttaroris antelucani but the Saints of God according to Christian Faith haue an eleuated vnderstanding able to behold clearely and distinctly the Diuine essence with the infinite beauties and perfections thereof How then can a Christian conceiue so meanly of them as to doubt whether they haue sufficient vnderstanding to behold things done in this inferiour world as farre as they belong to their state ANSVVER If it be not certaine either by Diuine Reuelation or by other infallible demonstration That the blessed Saints deceased heare and vnderstand our Prayers and behold the secret thoughts and intention of the heart then it is a vaine thing to pray vnto them by the confession of many of our Aduersaries but it is not certaine either by Diuine Reuelation or by any other infallible demonstration That the soules of the blessed Saints deceased heare and vnderstand our Prayers and behold the secret thoughts and intention of the heart First This degree of knowledge is appropriated to God himselfe 1. Kings 8.39 2. Chro. 6.30 Rom. 8.27 Ier. 17.10 Heb. 4.13 1. Cor. 14.25 Iob 34.21 22. Psal. 11.4 Pro. 15.3 1. Cor. 1. 11. Secondly That hee communicateth the same at leastwise ordinarily to the glorified Saints is not reuealed in his Word Thirdly The Iesuits Argument to wit The glorious Saints behold the Diuine essence immense and incomprehensible with the infinite beautie and perfections thereof face to face 1. Cor. 13. 12. 1. Iohn 3.2 Ergo They behold the secrets of mens hearts liuing on earth is denied for glorious Saints behold the Diuine essence in a finite manner and according to the measure and capacitie of creatures and so farre foorth onely as it pleaseth God and is sufficient for their beatitude But no diuine Reuelation affirmeth that it pleaseth God or is necessarie to their beatitude that they should vnderstand the secrets of mens hearts heere vpon earth and accordingly Saint Augustine saith The soules of the defunct are there where they see not all things which are done or which happen to people in this life And concerning the sequel of the former Argument Aquinas himselfe saith The blessed Angels behold the Diuine Essence and yet they know not all things but they are ignorant of future things being contingent and of the cogitations of the heart And whereas the Argument is further pressed They which know or see the greater vnderstand and behold the lesse But the Saints behold the Essence of God which is the greater and therefore they vnderstand the secrets of mens hearts The Answere is That if the greater and the lesse be of the same kinde and if the greater doe necessarily represent the lesse ad extra or externally and hee which vnderstandeth the greater comprehendeth the whole perfection and latitude thereof then it is true that they which know or see the greater vnderstand and see the lesse but if any of these conditions be wanting then the same is false First Euery one which beholdeth the Sunne doeth not behold euery thing which the Sunne effecteth or inlightneth Secondly Angels behold the face of God Math. 18. 10. and yet they may be ignorant of some inferiour things to wit of some supernaturall misteries Eph. 3.10 and of the houre when the day of iudgement shall be Math. 24.36 And Bannes saith No blessed Saint beholdeth all indiuiduals or their cogitations in the diuine Essence IESVIT Secondly As for the secrets of hearts God is without comparison more spirituall more secret more inuisible and out of the sight of naturall vnderstanding than is any the most secret thought of man or Angell and yet the Saints haue so cleere penetrating and all discouering light as they do most perspicuously discerne the diuine most hidden and vnsearchable Essence What reason then is there why Christians should thinke the secrets of mens hearts inuisible and vnsearchable vnto them If we looke into Scripture as the heart of man is said to be vnsearchable but to God onely so likewise God is said to be inuisible but only to himselfe so that to Saints together with the sight of hearts we must deny the fight of God or else interpret the sayings of Scipture That mans heart and God are inuisible to wit by meere naturall light and that both are visible vnto Saints by that light whereof the Prophet said In thy light we shall see the light ANSWER The inconsequence of this Argument is palpable for there is the same reason of Angells and of glorified Saints in respect of beatifical vision But Angels although they behold the face of God yet they vnderstand not the cogitations of mans heart according to the Tenet of Aquinas himselfe And if the Aduersarie flie to diuine Reuelation and will affirme that Angels and blessed Saints vnderstand the thoughts of mens hearts because God doth manifest the same vnto them as he did sometimes to the Prophets First he must remember that his bare word or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is no proofe for he was neuer in heauen to bring vs newes from thence the word of God is silent in teaching this Doctrine Secondly if God reucale and report the prayers of the liuing to the Saints before the Saints know them God is a Nuncio and as it were a Mediator betweene one creature and another and the inuocation of Saints is a circle first passing immediately to God himselfe then from God to Saints and then backe againe to God Thirdly Cardinall Bellarmine himselfe sheweth the weakenesse of the former assertion of our Aduersarie saying If the Saints needed a new Reuelation the Church could not with such boldnesse say to all the Saints Pray for vs but it should rather beseech God at least sometimes that he would reueale our Prayers vnto them Besides the reason could not so easily be giuen why Saints should be inuocated now and not be inuocated before Christs comming IESVIT If there were a glasse of Diamond so cleere and excellent that whatsoeuer is done in London in secret corners should therein particularly and distinctly appeare surely he that hath eyes to see that glasse may likewise therein discerne what is done all ouer the citie Now most
by a voluntatrie and prouisionall Mandate touching Recicide vnlesse you were otherwise proni ad rem bent to mischiefe Et luxato hoc freno and this Paper bridle being broken to broach and inculcate it If this your Masters hand shall cast Crosse in stead of Pile what shall we expect from such Gamesters Quibus ludus sunt capita diademata Regum IESVIT This onely I hope J may with your Maiesties good liking affirme That our Catholicke Doctrine in this Point is nothing so preiuditiall to Princes as are the Opinions of most Caluinists and Lutherans expressed in their Writings whereof we haue in this age but ouer-euident and lamentable examples to the world and your Maiestie not vnknowne And had the Authours of the Gunpowder Treason which from my soule I abhorre kept themselues within the bounds of Catholicke Doctrine they had neuer vndergone that most odious and abominable enterprise ANSWER By a draught of Sea water one may iudge of the brackishnesse of the whole His gratious Maiestie hath tasted alreadie of some fruits of Popish loyaltie and the Gunpowder Treason animalised by Iesuits but now disauowed for it succeeded not is a Watchword for prudent men not to confide in them whom the leuen of Superstition hath sowred But is the wit of a Iesuit growne so barren Haue you no other euasion but by recrimination and that impertinent For as concerning your Flim-flam of Caluinists and Lutherans I answere His Maiestie and the State of England hath felt no such disturbance but haue obserued by long experience that it cannot enter into any true Protestants heart vpon any occasion whatsoeuer to lift vp their heads against the Lords Annointed and if any vnsound or equiuocall member appeare among them diuerse from the true bodie let them receiue censure according to their demerits IESVIT As for the other Question which your Maiestie proposeth particularly to my selfe viz. What I thinke Subiects ought to doe in the case of Papall deposition of their Prince I can giue no better Councell vnto others than what J am resolued to take my selfe First to pray for peace and tranquilitie and true concord betweene both parties Secondly to exhort all to doe all other good offices tending thereunto and rather to suffer with patience than any way concurre to the preiudice of the Prince or disturbance of the Commonwealth Thirdly J doe protest before Almightie God that I would rather offer my selfe to die than any way to bee accessarie to your Maiesties death All which things most sincerely vttered by mee I humbly beg your Maiestie would vouchsafe to receiue as issuing from the conceits and hearts of all my Profession whose institutes particularly commandeth respect and obedience to all in authoritie as in the beginning of this Discourse I made plaine vnto your Maiestie vnto whom wee especially who are your borne subiects doe beare so vnfained affection that we should thinke our selues happie if your Maiestie would vouchsafe but to make tryall thereof not doubting but your Excellent Iudgement would soone discouer vs to be not onely as loyall as any other of your Subiects but more willing to imploy our wits pennes and labours euen with hazard of our liues in performing your Maiesties Commandements than many who inioying the fauour of the time make faire shewes of their owne affections and fidelitie and vncharitably traduce vs as capitall enemies to your Maiestes Person State and Dignitie ANSWER It is needlesse to make many words for if your heart and pen accord testifie the same by taking the Oath of Allegiance and by renouncing the pestilent opinion of Equiuocation therwise your Insinuations and Blandishments are but Maskes and Tectures of latent perfidiousnesse and they which are acquainted with Romish guile must still suspect that you play the Foxe Astutam vapido gestans sub pectore vulpem Ore aliud retinens aliud sub pectore Condens Now concerning this precedent passage let it bee obserued how the Iesuit hath not answered but declined his Maiesties Question And we must hold him to stand mute as one not daring to put himselfe to his Countrey lest he be found guiltie For the question is What ought the subiect to doe in case a Pope depose the King The Iesuits answere is I pray for peace I exhort others I would rather die c. Hansome complements but no securitie If his Holinesse send another wind you which haue vowed strict obedience to the Pope must turne your sailes your Votes and Prayers must bound another way you must exhort others to execute the Popes pleasure and if they and you perish in the Popes quarrell you die Martirs and goe to heauen in a string The IESVITS Conclusion HAuing performed your Maiesties will and pleasure in seeking to giue satisfaction about the Nine principall points that withhold your Royall assent from ioyning vnto the Roman Church my poore indeauours prostrate at your Maiesties feet to receiue their doome humbly beseech this fauor That your charitie and desire of the vnitie of the Church may ioyne together with your excellent Wisdome and Learning to pronounce the sentence Although I be confident that examining Religion by the meere rigour of only Scripture the Catholicke Doctrines would get the victorie more cleare and expresse Testimonies standing on our side than any that Protestants can bring for themselues as by the former Discourse may appeare although also I be much more confident in the Tradition perfect practise of the Church interpreting Scripture which by so full consent deliuers the Roman Doctrines that partialitie it selfe duely pondering can hardly in heart and in wardly iudge against them yet my chiefest hope is in those charitable thoughts and desires of Peace and Vnitie in the whole Christian world which the holy Ghost hath inspired into your Religious brest ANSVVER You deceiue your selfe touching his Maiestie for not onely these Nine points but many other detaine his royal assent from ioyning with the Romane Faith Secondly Your ostentation of proouing these Articles by the meere rigout of sole Scripture is Vanitas Vanitatum A vanitie beyond vanitie for the learned of your owne part acknowledge that many of your Romish Articles are neither expresly nor inuoluedly contained in holy Scripture Neither againe can your Faith subsist if it be tried by Genuine and Orthodoxall Tradition for your selfe in this Treatise wherein you performe as much in substance as your cause will beare haue made no demonstration of any one Article by the Testimonie of perpetuall Tradition and it seemeth to me that you are conscious hereof because in your Conclusion you fall vpon a new Disputation and seeke to inferre a necessitie of reducing all Controuersies to the meere and absolute determination of the Romane Church and Pope who will not faile to be fast friends to themselues IESVIT For suppose that praeconceit instilled into tender minds against them thinke comparing Catholickes with Protestants that Scriptures stand equally on both sides yea sifting
secrets nor to concurre with him in all actions of Emperie IESVIT Secondly S. Paul saith Now wee know but in part wee prophesie but in part but when that of perfection shall come that of part shall be euacuated I now know but in part then I shall know as I am knowne By which words the Apostle signifies that all Knowledge both Humane and Diuine particularly the gift of Prophesie is contained eminently in the Beatificall Light So that the blessed Saints haue the gift of Prophesie in a more excellent degree than had the Prophets in this world But by the light of Prophesie holy men vnited with God could see the secrets of hearts as S. Paul saith By the gift of Prophesie the secrets of hearts are manifested and also see things absent being present by Light of Vnderstanding from whence they were absent according to their substance The Prophet Elizeus saw in absence what passed betwixt his seruant Gehezi and Naaman to whom he said My heart was there present with thee With farre greater reason saith S. Augustine the Saints of God euen with eyes of bodie closed vp shall see all things not onely present but also from which they are corporally absent This is that which Saint Hierome doth so earnestly defend against Vigilantius That the soules of the Martyrs are present where their Shrines and Reliques are and neuer absent but still readie to heare the prayers of their suppliants not thinking as Dr Field imposeth vpon him that they are present in so many places substantially according to their soules but that they are present as Elizeus was present vnto Gehezi in spirit beholding what passed as cleerely as if they were corporally present ANSWER That the blessed Saints in Heauen haue the gift of Prophesie formally eminently or in actu exercito in respect of all indiuiduall Obiects is neither expressely affirmed by S. Paul neither can it be collected from his Doctrine for the vse and end of this gift was the edification of the Church Militant 1. Cor. 12. 10. Eph. 4. 11 12. And because this end ceaseth in regard of the blessed Saints Apoc. 14. 13 therefore wee haue no certaintie that they ordinarily and perpetually enioy the same And if it were graunted that they had this gift eminently yet it followeth not that they haue the exercise of it according to euerie materiall Obiect it had in this life for some Obiects of Prophesie are contingent and accidentally belonging to Propheticall Grace and euerie act of knowledge belongeth not to the perfection of the glorified state Imperfection of knowledge to wit in respect of the manner of knowing and the Obiect knowne and the Subiect vnderstanding shall be remooued in the blissefull state But where doth S. Paul affirme That the blessed by Diuine Vision or Reuelation vnderstand all particular Obiects which they knew in this life Aquinas himselfe hath these words To know all particular or indiuiduall things and the cogitations and actions of the same belongeth not to the perfection of a created vnderstanding neither doth his naturall desire affect this Also the same Author with Hugo Lyra and others commenting vpon S. Pauls words 1. Cor. 13. 12. Then shall I know euen as also I am knowne expoundeth them of the intuitiue knowledge which B. Saints in Heauen shall haue of God himselfe and not of all other created Obiects But from hence it followeth not That Saints deceased shall intuitiuely or by reuelation know all other inferiour things as I haue formerly prooued in my Answer to the Iesuits second Paragraph S. Augustine d. Ciuit. Dei Lib. 22. cap. 29 Prosper d. Vit. Cont. Lib. 1. cap. 4. speake of the knowledge of blessed men after their resurrection affirming That when they shall be all of them together in Heauen their hearts shall be open each of them to other but that the hearts of them which remaine vpon Earth are open to the 〈◊〉 Saints is not affirmed by these Fathers S. Hierome against Vigilantius speaketh in heat of Disputation but he affirmeth in another place That because Iesus knew the thoughts of some of the Scribes he did thereby shew himselfe to be God IESVIT Thirdly It is clearely to be prooued by Scripture That holy Angels see the Prayers and Actions and Affections of men In the Apocalypse an Angell offered vnto God the Prayers of men which he could not haue done had he not knowne them ANSVVER First The place of S. Iohn Apocal. 8.4 prooueth not either clearely or obscurely that holy Angels heare the Prayers or see the Actions and Affections of men For the Angell mentioned is expounded by the antient Expositors and by the Romists themselues not of an Angell by Nature but of an Angell by Office and by some of them of an Angell by Type Albertus in his Commentarie S. Iohn saith Another Angell that is Christ who is the Angell of the Couenant Esay 9. Dionifius Carthusian Catholike Doctors c. by this Angell vnderstand Christ who is the Angell of the great Councell and which by the Mysterie of his Incarnation came into the world and stood vpon the Altar of the Crosse. Blasius Viegas a Iesuit Wee may easily perceiue that this Angell is Christ because the things here spoken of him can agree to no other but Christ for who but he can with so great Maiestie offer vp to God the Incense that is the Prayers of the vniuersall Church Who besides him is able out of the Perfuming Panne to send downe into the Earth the fierie Coales of Diuine Charitie and to inflame people with the burning Graces of the holy Spirit With these agree Ambrose Primasius Ansbertus Beda Haimo Hugo Cardinalis and the Glosses But if it were granted that this Angel were a created or ministring Spirit it cannot be prooued that Angels vnderstand the secret cogitations of mans heart any further than the same are manifested by signes neither is it consequent that people ought to pray vnto them for Priests offer the prayers of the Church to God and yet no man doeth therefore inuocate Priests IESVIT Our Sauiour witnesseth That the Angels reioyce at the conuersion of a sinner so they must needes know it nor can they know it without knowing the sinners heart conuersion not being true nor worthie of ioy except it proceed from the heart ANSWER Not onely the Angels of God but holy men on earth reioyce at the conuersion of a sinner Luke 15.24 2. Cor. 7.9 Likewise Parents Ministers and 〈◊〉 reioyce c. and yet it followeth not from hence That holy men on earth which reioyce at the conuersion of a sinner see the secrets of the heart 1. Cor. 2.11 So likewise Angels which are ministring Spirits Heb. 1.14 may vnderstand by the signes and fruits of true repentance the conuersion of diuers sinners and consequently they may reioyce without intuitiue