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B09776 The Anabaptists meribah: or, VVaters of strife. Being a reply to a late insulting pamphlet, written by Thomas Lamb, merchant, intitulled, Truth prevailing against the fiercest opposition; or, An answer to Mr. John Goodwins Water-dipping, no firm footing for church-communion. Wherein the impertinency of M. Lamb's answer, and the validity of M. Goodwin's Water-dipping, &c. are manifested by I. Price a member of the Church of Christ, whereof the said Mr. Goodwin is pastor. Price, J., fl. 1656. 1656 (1656) Wing P3332A; ESTC R182056 87,699 107

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which you say he hath after used of such splashy Reply shallow watry thin and barren argumentation either pro or con than the writing of seven such boo●s as this is which we now implead You speak much of your findings but if you have found any such place in all his writings namely where he hath denyed that true proper and natural consequences from granted premises in the Scripture are not to be admitted as the truths of God I believe you may rejoyce in it and eat the morsells thereof your self alone having no partner with you therein in any part of the world whereof the Sun in the firmament is Overseer But this is onely to give Mr. Goodwin a running-rap but you could not reach him You procee 8. Mr. Lamb. I found the unregenerate world naturally falling in with childrens baptism which is a shrewd sign is a de●ice of her own the world loveth her own c. SECT XLVIII YOU finde the unregenerate world no more naturally falling in with childrens baptism Reply then you found it naturally falling in with the profession of Christ For they are baptized and do baptize their children in no other name nor into the profession of any other Saviour then Jesus Christ And is not this a shrewd argument that this Doctrine of the Messiah the unregenerate world so naturally falleth in withall is a device of her own the world doth love her own Your 9th particular is summ'd up in this Mr. Lamb. infant-Baptism is unlawfull because baptism being the initiating Ordinance into the Church it letteth in a sort of Members which the New-Testament knoweth not namely such as cannot worship God inspirit God now seeking onely such to worship him The whole bedy must be fitly framed together and every part must effectually work And can these things be affirmed of children SECT XLIX First you affirm that baptism is the innitiating Ordinance into the Church I suppose you mean not the Church generall but dejure it is the initrating Ordinance into particular Churches If that be your meaning Baptism not proved to be the initiating Ordinance into Church-fellowship this then is such a conclusion as you can hardly make good no not by any ifs may-bee's and why-nots gatherable from any place or places in the Holy Scriptures that is to say that baptism did make any person ipsosacto a member of any particular Church But it is proveable that many and many were baptized of whom it is impossible to prove that by baptism or any other way they were ever immembred into any particular Church And it is a difficulty too hard for you or I or any other in the world to undertake namely to prove that all and every particular member of particular Churches were ever baptized at all 2. It is true Gad seeketh such and onely such now to worship him as can worship him in spirit and in truth Iohn 4.23 that is as I conceive according to the context Now the time of reformation approacheth God will be worshipped and obeyed neither in the Iudaicall rites consisting in external performances as some among you so much contend for nor according to the Samaritans false worship who worshipped their Idol Gods together with God 2 King 17.26 27 28 29. but in a pure spirituall manner extending to the very heart such as was typified by those shaddows and the Son of God comes now to draw all men unto this way of worship from the Iudaicall from the Samaritan way This text indeed with severall others renders men uncapable of Church-worship in an acceptable manner that content themselves only with outward forms and yet leading a vitious life But what is this to the exclusion of children As for them here is the grace of the Gospell that he accepteth of little children and would not have men forbidden as you do to bring them to Christ He accepteth according to what any person hath and not according to what he hath not 3. Again God was alwayes a spirit as well as now and he did alwayes seek for such to worship him as should worship him in spirit and in truth as well as now He alwaies loved-truth in the inward parts he alwayes required of all his Sons to give him their hearts in his worship he alwayes commanded the Jews to love the Lord their God with all their hearts and minds and soul and strength Did this under the Law any way hinder that children might not be admitted members of the Iewish Church because they could not perform inward heart-worship and spirituall service did God upon their circumcision accept of them as if they did perform all those spirituall services and heart-duties untill they came to an actuall and personall capacity actually and personally to perform the same And will he not now accept of children baptized as if they did actually and personally perform those services unto him which under the Gospell he requireth untill they likewise come to an actuall and personall capacity so to do And then wil he accept or reject them as they are found faithfull or unfaithfull in these things 4. Whereas you say that the New-Testament knoweth us such member of Churches as infants c. I answer that tho I will not say or deny that the New-Testament knoweth not any infant-members of Churches yet the New Testament knoweth and hath taught others also to know that children are due subjects of Baptism And that it never knew not taught any to know where ever they were or ought to be rejected and denyed the participation thereof Our controversie is not about infant-Church-member-ship but infant-baptism Your tenth Argument for your beliefe in the business of Baptism viz. against Infant-Baptisme and for your separation Mr. Lamb. c. is taken from your observation of the righteous hand of God who causeth the sharpest and most able Adversaries to you in this point to let fall such expressions as justifie what they go about to oppose and condemn as Mr. Richard Baxter saith the aged are 1. the most fully capable subiects 2. the most excellent subiects 3. the most eminent subiects 4. of whom Scripture fully speaketh 5. the greater part of the world when Baptism was instituted who were to be partakers of it But on the contrary for infant-baptism he Mr. Baxter acknowledgeth it so dark in the Scripture that the controversie is thereby become not onely hard but so hard c. SECT L. YOU needed indeed to have written this in Capitall Letters that every one that runs may read the profundity thereof Reply The aged are the most capable subjects of Baptisme Ergo Children are no subjects thereof The aged are the most eminent subjects Ergo Children are no subjects Mr. Lambs miserable inferences from Mr. Baxters words the Scripture speaketh fully of them Ergo not at all of Children The aged were the greater part of the world that did partake of Baptisme Ergo Children were no part of the world that did partake
Neighbours if his Parents dyed in his Infancie told him so May not Christians when they they come to age nay are they not bound as much to believe their Parents telling them of their baptism as the Iewish Children were bound to believe their Parents telling them that the Mark on the foreskin of their flesh or the want of their praepatium was the Mark of their circumcision which they received according to the Laws of their religion when they were but eight dayes old Or whether that baptism upon such an information and belief of it be not as proper and apt to do spirituall service upon their hearts as circumcision was to do upon the hearts of the Jews children when they come to age It is sad to see such shadows of Arguments to divert men from the wayes of truth Your seventh Particular contains little also but what you have already spoken and hath been also spoken unto I see we have seen your strength and what you have to say You run so much upon repititions but though your spirits be spent and strength is gone yet your courage remains You have a good minde at it still Hence it is that you snatch up your we opens again tho the strength of your arm is hardly able to hold them Here also you reminde us of your findings which you have ●an over and over and over again as if you had no sooner found any thing but you lost it again and then you finde it again What have you found here I finde the Scriptures in all expressness of Letter are in many places for Believers Baptism Mr. Lamb. This hath been affirmed and granted granted and affirmed but what then Reply Whereas there is not one such Text for children Mr. Lamb. nor any instance of the Baptism so much as of one child in all the New-Testament SECT XLI WHat if there be not one such Text for childrens baptism for it may be your emphasis lyeth there doth it follow that there is no text at all for the justification thereof We have found text upon text and text after text namely all those texts recording the commands of Christ upon his Apostles and Disciples concerning baptism so conditioned qualified and phrased as that all the art and skill that either you or the greatest of your Champions you have cannot with a salvage unto your right reason honour and conscience exclude children from the intention of Iesus Christ as the legitimate and due subjects of baptism And where as you say there is not any instance of the baptism so much as of one child in all the New-Testament we have found also satisfaction upon satisfaction and satisfaction after satisfaction from all those texts likewise recording the exequation of Christs commands concerning baptism as that neither you nor all the Armies of your party can evince the contrary but that here were many hundreds of children baptized where and when Ierusalem and all Iudea and all the Regions beyond Iordan being Iews and therefore would doubtless have quarrelled if their children had been rejected were baptized as also where we read of thousands and of families and houses c. that were baptized But it is worthy observation that you tell us That many learned men have acknowledged Mr. Lamb. that Infant-baptism is not in Gods Word SECT XLV 1. Reply IF you mean that many learned men have acknowledged that there is no expressness of Letter in Gods word Mr. Lamb rejoyceth in the testimony of learned men when he can finde any of them of his judgment about baptism though he cautioneth us about Mr. Goodwins learning shewing de facto that children were baptized it is not denyed you nor doth it make any thing for your purpose For neither is there any expressness of the Letter shewing where any women did partake of the Lords Supper And yet you judge it their duty being otherwayes qualified for the same to partake thereof But 2. If you mean that many learned-men have acknowledged that Infants baptism cannot be proved in Gods word to be lawfull nay not a duty I cannot but observe how that one of a City and two of a Tribe of learned men of your way do amount unto many in your eyes Surely if you glory thus in the gleanings what would you do if the vintage were your own Why should Mr. Goodwins learning hang in his light any more than other mens Well however every one of the many you mention be interpreters even one of a thousand yet shall they not be Rabbies unto me nor have any dominion over my faith in the point in hand You add And those that go about to found it Infant-baptism on Scripture build all on consequences ifs may-bees Mr. Lamb. why-nots which argument Mr. Goodwin hath often used to confirm the Doctrine of generall Redemption and to draw the contrary opinion under the suspition of error SECT XLIV DOth not Scriptures speak consequences in premises Reply as well as the premises themselves The Scripture no where saith Scripture speaks consequences as welas principles or premises That any one whose name was is or ever should be Thomas Lamb shall or may possibly be saved Can it not be proved therefore that one Thomas Lamb shall or possibly may be saved as well as if the Scripture had the express saying therein that one Thomas Lamb shall or may be saved The Scripture makes mention of Paul desiring Philemon to receive Onesimus not as a servant but above a servant a brother beloved May not a man affirm hence that Onesimus was not with Philemon when he wrote thus unto him When the Scripture saith speaking of Christs Mother and the virgins name was Mary may not we say and insist upon it as a truth very proveable from the Holy Scriptures that Mary was a virgin Again if we must not build upon ifs may-bee's and why-nots Mr. Lambs proofs by consequences are good but he wil not suffer other men to prove Doctrines by consequences how come you to affirm with that magisteriall confidence as you do that the baptizing of children is unlawfull that no children were baptized by Iohn or any others mentioned in the Holy Scriptures that it is unlawful to joyn with such persons in Church-fellowship that were baptized only in their infancie with many other of the like nature having indeed not so much as any rationall ifs may-bee's and why-nots from Scripture for the confirmation thereof would any man suppose that so much as a babe in Christ would reason after this rate Where have you been since you left us But whereas you add Mr. Lamb. which argument I suppose you mean which manner of arguing by Mr. Goodwins adverse viz. from ifs may-bee's why-nots Mr. Goodwin hath often used to confirm the Doctrine of Generall Redemption and to draw the contrary opinion under the suspition of error SECT XLVII IT would require you more pains to shew us one place in all his writings
you have too long been a Discontinuant Gods gifts groan under dis-use or misuse Well Remember your own Law we shal have occasion to use it Thus you give it out HE who spotteth the beautifull face of Truth Mr. Lamb to the Reader tho ignorantly much more if presumptuously must expect a stain in his own credit and be content to suffer so much as to make the Truth whole SECT XII I Hope you wil not deny to undergo the Doom and Sentence of your own law Reply but accept of the punishment of your sin and transgression thereof if found guilty Whether you have not bespotted the beautifull face of truth I am sure very arrogantly tho ignorantly especially in some things ascerted by you concerning Mr. Goodwin yea and in and about the controversie beetween us will appear in due season THe same person may des●ve at the same time both Thanks Mr. Lamb to the Reader and Reproof To return the one is a point of gratitude to administer the other in love and in the Majesty of Gods word a point of Faithfulness SECT XIII TO that of Gratitude Reply it well becomes you to be thankfull to Mr. Goodwin To that of Reproof it doth as ill become you to reprove him as you do to lash him with the Scourge of your Pen as a puny-Boy to jerk him as the Bishops and their shavelings did Henry the second Mr. Lamb conceited of his majestick Pen. of England until they made him bleed But whereas you presume that your pen is cloathed with the Majesty of Gods VVord as if it dwelt in Light and were like the bright Morning-Star or rather the Sun at Noon in his Majesty Consider Pride is a piece of maduess and many poor creatures cloath'd in Rags being distempered in their heads have conceited themselves Kings and Queens and their Rags to be Robes I have heard of a Merchant at Athens who being distracted by great Losses at Sea and undone thought that all the goods that came to the City were his and busie was he from day to day at the water-side to look after his Goods And severall Merchants agreeing together to use the best means they could to have him made whole again it was at last accomplished and then the poor man seeing his poverty and feeling the smart thereof wish't the Merchants had not undertook his cure For then said he I had all things every mans Goods were mine but now I see I have nothing at all but am a poor miserable man Thou knowest not thou art poor blind and naked said God to the Church of Laodicea IF in this Contest thou findest any passages savouring of too much sharpness Mr. Lamb to the Reader though in Answer to Mr. Goodwins Highest Provocations look upon me as disowning them and minde the Reason of the place SECT IV. VVHat is the meaning of this Reply Mr. Lamb at contest with his Conscience What strivings and contendings were there between your pen and your conscience in writing this Book Why did you suffer your self to he overcome of your own evill and did not rather strive to overcome your evill with good Was not Conscience and concupisence hard at combeate in your thoughts Did not the Flesh lust against the Spirit and the Spirit against the Flesh Did not your heart smight you when you began to dip your inconsiderate pen in the blood of Mr. Goodwins Reputation Did not your hands tremble when like Mezentius the Tyrant that did use to tye the living with the dead you bound Mr. Goodwin and Mr. Edwards together with the same Cord of dishonour and snacie when you chained him with the dis-ingenious and froward six Book-sellers in the Postscript Will you not own those sharp Passages Who must own them But it is worth our observation The highest provocation that ever Mr. Goodwin gave Mr. Lamb. that Mr. Goodwins VVater-Dipping c. the Book of your quarrell you confess to be the highest Provocation that ever he gave you wherein notwithstanding you are not so much as once named no not so much as with the two first Letters of your name The Provocation only was because he cannot bow to your Baptism but writes against it Nebuchadnezers heart was hotter than his Oven against those Worthies that would not bow down to his Image Remember He that is soon angry dealeth foolishly Alexander in his hot blood stew'd his dearest friends whom he would have revived again with his heart blood if he could To be angry with a Brother without a cause is dangerous Is it a Provocation of the highest nature to write against your way and shew unto the world the undue behaviour of the Professors thereof without the least whisper of your Name therein Is this like that meek that mortified temper and disposition which appeared in you when you walked with us Is not here a fearfull Metamorphosis CHrists Counsell is not to resist evil Mr. Lamb to the Reader but whosoever will smight me on the right Cheek to turn the other to him But besides it becommeth me to hear much evill from that hand by which I have received so much good SECT XV. HOw easie is it to preach and hard to practise truth Mr. Lamb acteth contrary to his knowledge of Christs command Have not you endeavoured to buffet Mr. Goodwin on both his cheeks who hath not so much as lifted up his little finger against either of yours Have you taken two blows for one Nay have you not given ten for none Do you know your Masters will and practise it no better Is not the knowledg of Christs will a great dispositum a rich Talent and do you improve it thus You confess you have received much good from him and it becommeth you to bear much evill from him Have not you requited the good you have received very unkindly Much good you have received from him for which of those good works have you thus written against him I know you will be ready to say with those Iews for the good he hath done me I have not written against him but because he hath blasphemed the Doctrine of Baptism and the professors thereof Those Iews were holy persecutors in pretence at least Maximinian thought the blood of Christians an acceptable sacrifice to his Gods And so did the Popish persecutors hold the same Opinion of the blood of the Protestants in all times since the name of Protestantism was heard amongst them Do you think such a sacrifice as the spoyles of Mr. Goodwins reputation God will be so well pleased with that the first fruits of your Pen being so bitter against your great Benefactor in the things of Iesus Christ should be so acceptable unto him Do not you think in your conscience that God will call many to account for the injury that they have done that man in his name and reputation for his service in the Gospel And will not you be ashamed of your self to be found
conceive it was to instruct them to inform the world that now the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles also as to the Jews and that the blessing of Abraham is now come upon the Gontiles through Iesus Christ being rejected by the Jews and that the Gentiles should be fellow-heirs and of the fame body and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospell The words Iews nation under the Law were comprehensive importing the men women and children The words Gentiles and nations under the Gospel cannot with the least shew of reason be restrictive importing only men and women with the exclusion of children The salvation sent by God to the Jews the blessing of Abraham that was upon the Jews the Covenant whereof the Jews were heirs was such a salvation such a blessing such a covenant as was assured signed and sealed unto the children of the Jews The children therefore of those Gentiles that accept of this salvation this blessing this covenant which the Jews rejected being in no place of Scripture cut off God forbid that we should dare to cut them off though it seems you dare Consider as it is a cursed thing to add unto the word of God so it is no less a cursed thing to take any thing from the same Christ saith plainly go teach all nations baptizing them viz. all taught nation you say go teach all nations baptizing only such of every nation as are actually taught and instructed In Scripture acceptation men women and children made up the taught nation of the Jews in your sense and meaning only the men and women must be the taught nation of the Gentiles and children excluded The Scripture makes the Covenant of Grace and the figns thereof to belong to the men women and children of the Jews and in the application thereof unto the Gentiles makes use of the same comprehensive Expressions to them as were used to the Jews viz. Gentiles Nation But you will take upon you to cut off more than a third part thereof without any commission or authority from God or from Iesus Christ for your instruction or voucher It is a sin of an equall demerit to pul down Gods posts and set ours up by his as it is to set up by Gods posts any posts of our own Again whereas you adde in this Consideration Mr Lamb. That the same presence of Christ is promised ioyntly to Baptisme as to Teaching to the end of the world SECT XXX I Reply That if by the same presence of Christ you mean the same Reply in respect of reality and truth that is that there is a true and reall presence of Christ promised unto Baptism as there is in Teaching we are Partners with you in the same meaning But if by the same presence of Christ your meaning be the same every way and no otherwaies that is there is one and the self same and no other operating presence of Christ in the Administration of Baptism as there in Teaching or Preaching the Gospel then it is denyed There is a reall but a different presence of Christ in the Baptisme of Infants from that in preaching the word There is a manifold presence of Christ or operation of his Holy Spirit in the preaching of the Gospel which is not at all in the Ministration of Baptism There is nothing symbolicall or otherwaies in baptism preaching Jesus Christ to be the Son of the Virgin Mary that he was betrayed by Judas one of his Disciples that he was the Son of David that he suffered death upon the Cross c. which is to be known by teaching the Gospell and a sutable presence of Christ doth accompany such Doctrines c. But yon insinuate as I conceive such a thing as this in saying there is the same presence of Christ promised unto the Ordinance of Baptism as is promised to that of teaching to the end of the world viz. That there is such a kind of the presence of Christ in teaching which none are capable to understand but persons at years of discretion having personally an actuall capacity of understanding receiving and believing the same and that the self same presence of Christ there is in Baptism whereof children are not capable I mean so to understand and that therefore as teaching belongs not unto Infants because they cannot understand nor enjoy the presence of Christ in that Ordinance even so Baptism be longs not to children because they cannot understand the same neither can they enjoy the presence of Christ therein If this is your meaning I answer SECT XXXI FIrst In what sense children are capable of the Doctrine of baptism that no such presence of Christ is promised unto or doth accompany baptism otherwaies then was promised unto or did accompany the Ordinance of circumcision under the Law The presence of Christ necessary to make the Ordinance of baptism profitable is such a prefence as shall first teach the subjects of Baptism to speak in your Language the Doctrine of dying unto sin rising up and living unto God the Doctrine of mortification of sanctification And secondly such a presence of Christ as shall duly affect their minds with sutable affections and heavenly dispositions under in and by such a vision Such a presence of Christ as this was as necessarie for the usefull improvement of the Ordinance of circumcision of old namely such a presence of Christ as should first teach and instruct the subjects thereof according to their capacities in the Doctrine of the circumcision of the heart the cutting off of the superfluity of naughtiness the circumcision made without hands And thirdly Such a presence of Christ as should duly affect their minds with holy and heavenly sutable affections And the children were not capable of such a presence of Christ yet you know they were by Gods will and pleasure to partake of that Ordinance notwithstanding Surely God did not command the Ordinance of circumcision under the Law but he did vouchsafe his presence unto those upon whom he did enjoyn it Even so as great and effectuall a presence of Christ is promised and performed unto children baptized under the Gospel as was performed unto children circumcised under the Law 2. The presence of Christ promised and made good unto persons that are found under those Ordinances which God hath appointed may not be so much for the present benefit and sensible accommodation of all the true subjects of such an Ordinance as for the immediate benefit of the standers by and persons that are Witnesses thereof And the benefit of Christs presence when it was first administred unto them may not influence it self at least in a sensible manner untill they come to years of discretion As the presence of God blessing the Seeds-man in the act of soweing is not sensibly found untill the Harvest You know the presence of Christ in the administration of circumcision did not appear in the children of the Jews in a spirituall benefit
his brother going one before another in known wayes of joynt Reformation that in things granted by the generality of the godly party to be the mind and will of God each should provoke his brother unto reformation not intending hereby a liberty much less a duty vowed and covenanted viz. that in case of different apprehensions especially in smaller matters or ceremonies c. each should be obliged to run away from his dissenting brother If so be that in doubtfull and questionable things such as your notions of infant-baptism and rebaptization c. are each should be bound by this vow and covenant to follow his own personall conception where should two believers be found walking together And is the nationall vow and covenant which intended to make all the people of God in the three nations to be one a sufficient ground to render believers as so many wandring Cains to run away one from another what to joyn together as beacons upon hills do Surely you are an interpreter of the solemn league and covenant even one of a thousand To your argument of following your light Conceit of light notformerly discovered no plea for separation we have already answered Sect. 6. and elsewhere If you will not admit of limitations and boundaries in granting men a liberty of following their own private conceptions you lay a foundation of every mans departure from another of justifying mens apostacie if upon religious pretences though it be even to Turcism Iudaism and what not As for what you offer concerning M. Goodwins separation from the godly Presbyterians I have already answered Sect. 55. M. Goodwins second Consideration amounteth in brief unto this viz. That though it were granted that that very baptism viz. the baptism of believers at age and that by dipping was the only baptism-Ordinance of Christ yet their brethren though not baptized according thereunto having no opportunity through want of light or otherwayes for the same and yet withall an hearty desire unto it and endeavour after a discovery of the will of God therein I say in this case their brethren are according to divine estimate and acceptance baptized therewith Proof 2 Cor. 8.12 Mat. 5.28 where God judgeth men according to what is found in the heart whether it be good or evill SECT LVIII TO this you answer First by absolute denyall of the said consideration and affirm it a mistake that such Churches not actually baptized with your baptism should the premises notwithstanding be esteemed by God to have been baptized offering onely that that Text 2 Cor. 8.12 doth not prove that God judgeth a man actually and in a formal proper sense to have been baptized who never was thus baptized or that the deed is done when there is no such deed done but only a will to do it I Reply That to insist upon this is but to suspect the reader a very infant in understanding for doth the consideration it self in the very least imply that God judgeth that actually and in a formal proper sense to be done which was never done nay doth it not more then imply that it is only accepted in respect of reward as done though not done God accepteth the will for the deed Is this distinction of the will from the deed and Gods acceptance of the will for the deed as done though it be never done a perfect chaos and confusion unto you Doth M. Goodwin say that God judgeth that actually and in a formal proper sense to be done which was never done Doth he not speak only of acceptance as if done And is this so Aenigmatical and hard a saying to your understanding If this consideration given by M. Goodwin should not import a truth what hopes could you and I have of salvation Doth not God accept of our faith putting us upon a holy endeavour to keep all his commandments though we keep none but in many things sin all as if we did actually and formally keep them all and break none Do you expect at the great day to be measured by weight or by will Is it the willingness of your minde or the worthiness of your works that is the Ancor of your soul in the day of Christ But you have another answer viz. summarily thus 2. Though God accepteth a desire of obedience though obedience be not performed for want of knowledge of Gods minde therein yet this doth not excuse mens ignorance God doth not justifie men in any such false judgement I reply And is this an answer may not we infer therefore God doth not justifie your ignorance of his minde in keeping covenant with him and his Church and people though differing in some things from you but breaking the same as a thred of Tow. Yet we deny not but he may graciously accept of your will also for the deed But our work now is about healing this ignorance And thirdly you object That if God accepts your will for the deed your not being baptized as if you were baptized he will also by your own argument say you accept of us separating from you as still with you it being according to our Light as he will accept of your selves as baptized though not baptized c. I reply Our Opinion of Mr. Lamb with others that went from us more charitable of them than theirs of us That we judge and censure not the intentions of your mind but the unsoundness of your judgment we hope your hearts being right with God that he will pardon your mistakes and ignorances though rending and tearing up by the roots so far as in you was a blessed society of Saints and people of God that he will accept of you that is pardon you as he did Paul though breathing persecutions against the Churches of Christ because he did it ignorantly And upon these hopes and opinion we have of the uprightness of your souls we can joyn with you in prayer and any other Ordinances of Jesus Christ though you cannot so do with us And whereas you say that we have much more reason to judge excellentlie of you than you of us because your way is the poor persecuted way The praise of the poor a great snare ours the way in esteem your sayings herein savours so much of vanity folly spiritual pride and conceitedness that for your sake I shall forbear to say more to it Onely remember there is a snare of secret vanity in gathering up an esteem from the poor and meaner sort of persons are more apt to trumpet up such a mans holyness humility bounty charity c. then the rich but I spare you Mr. Goodwins third consideration is collectively thus The Scriptures expresly teach that by faith men become the children of Abraham and sons of God Iohn 1.12 Iohn 2.26 Rom. 4.11 12.16 those then that are not their brethren are bastards and not sons If they that are the Sons of God and consequently their brethren be ashamed of them and refuse to own them in