28. P. Piâ—s the second u Abbaâ— Vespersâ—nâ—is p. 443. and Others In conclusion then seeing the hearing of vnlawfull Ministers is flat against scripture articles as we haâ—e partly manifested and God willing more will doe we â— must 〈◊〉 as Ierome x in Mat. 23 speakes it though it should in the meane time be iustified and practised by many Churches and people The second thing which he desires may be noted is that this hearing was not in the iudgement of the Church esteemed as a thinge that might not be borne with all Answ 1 The doctrine of the Nicolaitans which was a Trenan l. 1 27. Epiphanc 1. Tom. 1. Eâ—â—â—â— 3. 29. that adulterie and fornication were no sinnes and that men might communicate with the sacrifices of Idolaters in their idol temples was not in the iudgment of the Churches at Pergamos and Thyatira esteemed as a thing that might not be borne withall was the same therfore good indeed such a conclusion we must either here gather from his wordes or conclude he knew not well what he wrote 2. To the iudgement of that Church when they wrote to London I may oppose their former and better iudgment ffor with reverence to the Phrase from the beginning this was not soe ffor in their constitution and many yeares after they held * Remember therfore from vvhâ—nce thou art fallen and repent and doe the first vvorkes Reu. 2. 5. hearing of vnlawfull Ministers a very vnlawful practise And so much appeares in sundry passages Published to the world by the Pastor himselfe And for the Readers better satisfaction I thinke it not amisse to sert downe their Owne words Those b Munumission to a manuduction pag. 5. who partake in the worke of Preaching of one sent by the Bp DOE PARTAKE IN WHAT LYETH JN THEM IN THE AVTHORITY OF THE SENDER Againe The authorite of Ministers in their Parishionall Churches c Page 4. may not be by Gods people partaken with no not in actions otherwise Lawfull vnder the paines of Babilons Plagues Againe in another booke d Religious Communion pag. 20. thus they write Let all them that feare God consider that when they come to worship in the Parish Assemblyes they joyne themselues where God hath not joyned them and doe acknowledge that societie for the Church of God and communion of saints which he hath not sanctifyed for that purpose and in saying ourfather with them they acknowledge them for the children of God who in the perswation of their consciences are of their father the divel And in the same booke a little after e pag. 32. Their very administrations by vnlawfull calling are the sinnes and so to PARTAKE WITH THEM IN THEIR ADMINISTRATIONS IS TO PARTAKE WITH THEM IN THEIR SINNES contrary to Timot. 5. 22. Reu. 14. 4. In their answere to Maister Barnerds booke thus they write largesie of this point f Justification of Separat pag. 78. 79. 80. â—e also page 17. 162. 276. 433. Some of which is as followeth But the thing which most grieves Mr. B and at which he hath greatest indignation Pap. 62. is that we will not heare his sermons though he preach nothing but the true word of God And so he desires to heare of vs where the hearing of the true word of God onely preached is sinn and forbidden by Christ or the Prophets or Apostles For answer hereof I would know first whether Mr. B. speaking here and in many other places of the true Word of God do means that God hath a true word and a false word or rather bewray not an accusing conscience that they in England have not the true word truely taught that is in a true office of Ministery Now for the demaund referring the reader for more full satisfaction to that which hath bene published at large by others I do answer that as it was vnlawfull to * Nâ—mb 16. 2. Câ— 26. 1 King 12. communicate with Corah or with vzziah though they offered true sacrifices so IS IT VNLAWFVL TO COMMVNICATE WITH ADEVISED MINSTERY WHAT TRVTH SOEVER IS TAVGHT IN IT Secondly the Lord hath promised no blessing to his word but in his owe ordinance though by his superaboundand mercy he oft tymes vouchsafe that which no man can chalendg by any ordinary promise Thirdly * no man may partake in other mens sinns â—â—m 5. 12. but euery Ministery eyther devised or vsurped is the sinn of him which exerciseth it Rev. 18. 4. And as no good subject would assist or communicate with any person in the administration of civil Justice to the Kings subjects no not though he administred the same never so equally and indifferrently except the same person had commission from the King so to do so neyther ought the subjects of the kingdome of Christ to partake with any person whomsoever in the dispensation of any spirituall thing though in it self never so holy withot sufficient warrant and commission from the most absolute and sovereigne King of his Church Christ Iesus And where Mr. B. speaks of hearing the true word of God only preached he intimates therin that if we would heare him preach it would satisfy him well and so teacheth vs with himselfe and others to make a schisme in the Church in vsing one ordinance and not an other It is all one whether a man communicate with the minister in his pulpit or with the Chauncelor in his consistory both of them minister by the same power of the Bishop The Chauncelor may iudge justly who knowes whither or no the Minister will teach truely And if he doe not but speak the vision of his owne heart what remedy hath the Church or what can they that hear him do May they rebuke him openly according to his sin and so bring him to repentance or must they not beare his errors yea his heresyes also during the pleasure of the Bishops even their Lord his And would you Mr. B. be content your people should heare a masse-Priest or Jesuite though he professed as loud as you do that he would teach the true word of God And think not scorne of the match for you haue the selfe same office with a masse Preist though refyned If he be ordayned by a Bishop though it be the Bishop of Rome he may minister in any Church of England by vertue of that ordination Andbesides masse-Preists preach some and those the mayne truthes and the Ministers in England neither do nor dare preach all no nor some which it may be the others do Is it not better then for the servants of the L. Iesus to exercise and aedify themselves according to the model of grace receaved though in weaker measure then to be so simple as to come to your feasts though you cry never so loud vnto them thinking that because your stoln waters are sweet and your hidden bread pleasant that they have no power to passe by but must needs become your guests And here
answer in a faire honest way well they may satisfie men of the same humours But with men fearing God they shall finde no acceptance 3. I exspect plaine dealing Truth is like the glassie sea before the throne which is bright cleare not a clouded bodie or covered with the vailes of mens fond fantisies dreames Let such Childish toyes be kept for Children I require the voyce of the Shepheard read it me out of the Prophets shew it me out of the Psalmes read it out of the Law or Gospell For without this mens judgments have no credit * Ego vocem pastoris requiro lege haec mihi de Prophetis lege de psalmo recita de lege recita de Evangelio recita de Apostolo August de Pastorib cap. 14. Before I end my speach I thinke good to mention you my Brethren with whom I am in speciall communion over vvhom the Holy Ghost hath made me overseer This answer will serve to cleare us from such untrue reports as some malitiously have raysed up as if we were declined from our ancient profession Now what we hold concerning the fallacies fantasies newly broached I desire all the Churches of God here to take knowledge off for our clearing justification I thought when J first began with this Treatise in ending of it to have ended with publick controversies and so have followed a more quiet kind of studie But seeing what the truth suffers in regard of adversaries to it on both sides the love of God constraineth me not to be silent but according to that measure which the Lord hath dealt unto me as my smal abilities are to coÌ„tend for the faith against dexteriores sinesteriores adversaries on both hands to deliver it from the evill report which both have sought to bring upon it And as I have made way now for Gods people to enter into the sweet order of the Gospell covenant oâ— the Lord So J purpose very speedily to publish something for their stay and preservation therein You know my Brethren for the divisions of Reuben are great thoughts of heart Lord how are we spoken of in Gath Askalon for the rents Schismes amongst us In truth I doe not know for what our profession is beholding unto in respect of some men but only to be dispised reproached for their idle giddle courses * Of certaine turbulent spirits it is said Illis quieta movere magna merces videbatur Salust They thought the very disturbaÌ„ce of things quietly established an hyre sufficiently to set them on worke But that the truth of God may no longer suffer but the sinne shame lie where it ought I will by the good hand of God assisting me cleare our Religion as that it leads not to Schismes Church-breakings but such things are rootes of bitternes cursed taires planted sowed by the Envious man in the unsanctified hearts of ungodly people Besides I purpose to shew from the Word of God why men ought to keep themselves with true Churches Howbeit in their opinions very corrupt how Againe how farre particular men have libertie to deale with a Church when they are to rest how a why Moreover how farre a Church-Covenant binds every member of the body to that bodie wherefore there must not be divisions neither from nor in the bodie Againe in case there be a division in Church I wil shew by what signes tokens the Church may be known from the Schismaticks In a word I will shew how farre the Office of the Eldership extendeth in matter of Government and how farre obedience is due unto them of the people These things many more of the like nature you shall shortly see them handled For J purpose to publish a large Treatise of Ecclesiasticall Politie even the whole externall regiment of the Church of God And thus commending you to God J take my leave and will during life alwayes rest Amsterdam Moneth 1. day 28. 1639. Yours in what he can to doe you service I. C. A STAY AGAINST STRAYING OR A Reply to a Treatise published in the defence of hearing Antichristian Ministers SECTION I. An ansvver to the nameles Epistoler HOwsoever the publisher of the Treatise hath thought it fit to conceale his name * it is question vvhetheâ— he vvere not a shamed to put his name to it a. pro 27. 14. yet he hath prefixed to it a large preface wherein with a Loud voyce a he blesseth the authour his friend and the worke it selfe and seekes by manie unchristiaÌ„ speaches to disgrace some men what he can inregard they Zealouslie opposed his new minion Idol Three reasons he giues why after 9. yeares concealement he hath now Published the booke first the large abilities of the author a boue many others c. Answ 1. this ground is sandy and he speakes * Arâ—â—◠〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 besides the matter For howsoeuer we confesse that the Author was a godlie learned man notwith standing it followes not that whatsoeuer he said it was therfore true necessarilie to be published Without offence that fitlie may be applyed to him which a learned writer writes of Chrisostome a Calâ—ehil Treatise of the Crosse pag. 26. he was not without his fault his goulden mouth wherin he passed others had otherwhile leaden wordes which yeelded to errour abuse of the time 2. Had the Pistler respected as he should the authors large abilities he would not haue made that booke so commoÌ„ as he hath done to the mans great dishonour When one Pammachius b Ieroms 〈◊〉 Epist ad pamm a Learned Man vnderstood that Hierome had writen some thinges amisse against Iovinian he sought to suppresse all the Copies to haue them concealed till the faults therein were corrected If the Publisher c Let such as had a hand this vvay thinke of Christs vvordeâ— in mat 18. 7. vvoâ— to them by vvhome offences come or others had so don with that first copie which they found in his studie they had don wel manifested good affection to the author but in that they caused so vile a thing to be spread abroad they did ill were his enemies And here I thinke of that sentence in Eccles 10. 1. dead flies cause the oyâ—â—â—eÌ„t of the Apothecary to send foorth a stinking sauour so doth a little folly him that is in reputation for wisedome and honour I acknowledge to Gods glory and the Treatisers due Prayse that there are in print of his sundry fruitfull treatises d Specially his Iustification of separation a booke so sufficientlie penned as no Adversary hetherto durst reply but certanelie this published since his death is like the wild gourd in the Pottage a cheife cause that the former are the lesse accepted with the godlie It is true therfore as Ferus e ferus Annot. in Ecclesic 10. v. 1. fol. 95. 2â— Chro 19. 12. 1. King â—
strong and lies as a stumbling block in their way to hinder the due practice of Gods ordinances 10. By it Idolaters are caused to shut their eyes and harden u Cornel. a lapide in Epist Ich. Secun p. 505. their hearts against the truth and soe consequently held the longer and stronger in the snare of the Devill 11. Jt is for nature and kind the sinne of the high places For wherein did the Isralites offend that way But because as Rivetus w quod fi bi adoratio nis loca arbitrio delegerint in Hos 4. p. 146. saith of their owne accord they made choyse of them places for divine worship Iunius x Annot. levit 17 7. saith soe too when they sacrificed in ALIO LOCO in any other place then the Lord had prescribed it was offered to Dâ—vils I will not here dispute of the materiall place I meane their temples of woode and stone whether Christians in them may lawfully performe publicke worship But this I do affirme and will stand to it that it is every way as evill to bring our spirituall offerings unto an Idollâ—state and there in it by it or with it to present the same vnto God as it was vnlawfull for the Iewes vnder the law to offer in the places beefore named some say a Lyran. comment in Amo. 5 27. the former is much worse because the same was never warrantable whereas the other somtime was as we haue else where noted pag. 18. 19. 12. To conclude this practice takes away the crosse of Christ persecution for righteousnesse It decks an adulterer with the spoile of the spouse of Christ It maks schisme in the Church in that men breake the order and bounds which God hath set in it b Melan in Evan dom 4. Advent p 94. Maks way for greater evils as apostacie from God sliding back to great vngodlines c Pare in Hos 8. p. 592. and to bee corrupted in the substance of religion and purity of Doctrine And what shall I say more Jt gratifies the Iesuits in commending d Maffeus In vita Ignat Laiola blind obedience and argues great presumptioÌ„ pride of heart as if man were wiser then God could devise either some better meanes or some other way for his edefication then the Lord hath prescribed e D. Willet Comment in 1 Sam. 15. 23. I do not know vvhat engine of vvit and art some men haue to elude these reasons and to batter them so dovvne as to make a safe passage through for a good conscience For my part I confesse such do goe bejoynd my line and measure of faith I dare not bevvise aboue that vvhich is vvriten it is enough for mee to knovv and beleeve that in this point vvee haue the vvord of God vvith vs and for vs. SECT 8. OVr six Objection Object 6. as hee layes it downe for us is thus If there be no communion at all between the Teacher and taught what profit then commeth by such hearing To this his answere is Treat The Church Officer feedes the stocke of Christ over which he is set as the object of his ministery Such as come in beeing not in Church vnion therewith heares him so doing as a stander by heares mee talke or dispute with another c Here is communion onely in the effects of the truths taught It were vsurpation in any to pertake in a Church previleidge which the office of ministery is that were not in Church state first so if hearing imported Church Communion none but in Church members might lawfully heare The Treat answers are much like to one that turnes himselfe many times about but moves not out of the place All that he saith is Homoeologia one thing often said over and over That is a change of the state of the question which is not about Church-communion but whether a beleever when hee heares a false minister in a worke of his office doe such an action as can be proved lawfull by the word of God Now to this which is the maine * Sacra scriptura tota vera necessaria sufficiens viatori consequen dum fineÌ„ suum nec est dubia via salutis Harum etiam explicatio quantuÌ„ adcreden da quaÌ„ tum ad speranda et quantum ad operanda ex plicatur ex diversis scripturae locis Scotus in 1. sent quaest thing we finde nothing in the Treatise but much paper blotted 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 about questions and strifes of words which are indeed vaine and vnprofitable and whereof commeth envie strife evill surmisings rather then edefying which is in faith so to doe Jf J should say nothing to this some would say there were some thing in it Therefore I answere 1. It is a false kind of resoning which Logicians condemne vnder the tearme non causae vt causae when a thing is spoken either with limitation or without to conclude more theÌ„ the proemisses this fault the Trea. commits here For he would perswade vs that because the Church-officer his flocke are relatives therefore no man not in Church vnion hath relation to his office a M. Const Cnrin Metaph. l. 2. c. 1. R. Goclen in coÌ„trâ—v log p. 1 c. 18 Seal c 93 de caus Lat. But we are not altogether such novices but know a little how to distinguish Sophestrie from Philosophie Touching Relation the same may be considered 1. in ordinatione 2. in applicatione For the first which is a Relation by order or coniunctione that is relatio per se as Logicians b Fonsec 5. Metaphy c. 18 Quoest 2 Sect. 3. Timpl. Metap l. 4. Phrase it Here now I grant in this kind of Relation no man hath relation to the office of the Teacher that is not in Church-communion therewith But for the second which is relatio imperfecta or per accidens Here I affirme that in this kind The Hearer howbeit not in Church-estate yet hath relation to the Office of the Teacher and so farr forth is the object of his Ministerie Aristotle c Meta. l. 5 c. 5. speaking of sundry wayes of Relations unto persons and things sets downe these particulars 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 So then to goe where unlawfull Ministers teach observe the time hearken to their Doctrine shew the like outward submissive gestures and reverence that others doe performe divine worship there with them and among them This is to have relation to the idol-state both of Church and Ministerie if the Philosopher speake truelie Againe consider a relation in the parts thereof 1. Here is subjectum viz. Hearing 2. Fundamentum i. e. a false-state 3. Terminus viz. superstition but our Opposites name it edification 4. Relatum to weet the speaker 5. Correlatum viz. the Hearer And howsoever it may be said that in respect of Church-union the Relation here is properlie in the two later that is between the Church-officer and his Flock notwithstanding