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A41462 A winter-evening conference between neighbours in two parts. Goodman, John, 1625 or 6-1690. 1684 (1684) Wing G1129; ESTC R15705 135,167 242

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in all this Or say it should be to no great fruit that we apply our selves to Study yet at least this is gotten by it That we employ our time and keep our selves out of harms which is as much as we now seek for Phil. It is generally the fault of Eloquent and Contemplative Men to outshoot the Mark they aim at and whilst they talk finely to deliver very unpracticable things Pardon me Dear Sebastian if I suppose this infirmity hath accompanied those great accomplishments in you at this time No doubt but Meditation is a noble entertainment of Time and questionless he that hath once got the knack of it nothing in the World is so pleasant to him but you must consider there are very few who have so much command over themselves as to hold their minds long steady and intent and perhaps fewer that have sufficient knowledge to employ their thoughts at home it requires a great Stock for a man to be able to set up this Trade by himself Besides many mens Spleens are so near their Heads and there is so great affinity between the Animal Spirits and Vapours that he that goes to exercise the one stirs up the other and oftentimes the greater the intention of mind is with which a man sets himself to think the greater Cloud is raised and the more impossible it will prove for such a man to discern any thing clearly Your Advice therefore is very good for them that can receive it but this is no Catholicon no general Receipt Sebast I thank you Sir most heartily for the modest and seasonable check you gave to the cariere of my Discourse I must confess upon second thoughts that all men are not fit for Meditation and therefore it cannot be their Duty yet I must tell you withal I suspect more are unwilling than uncapable and I doubt some are more afraid of awakening their conscience than stirring their spleen by it However I have another Expedient to propound for the purpose we are upon which will supply the place of the former and which I am sure can be liable to no Objection and that is Conference or Discourse which when I have recommended to you I shall have delivered my whole mind God Almighty hath given us Speech to express our selves to one another We are not left alone in the World so but that every man hath some Friend or Neighbour to hold correspondence with why should we not then entertain our selves our friends and our time in friendly Communication without the help of the Bottle c. This requires no great intention of mind no great Stock is required in this Case this will stir up no Vapours from our Spleen and by this way we may not only divert our selves but elucidate our own thoughts enlarge our experience resolve one anothers difficulties and mutually please and profit one another And the more effectually to recommend this Expedient to you I will first take the confidence to affirm and do not doubt but I shall by and by make it evidently appear That this is not only a very gentile and creditable way of conversation but also if it be rightly practised a most pleasant and delightful and which perhaps may seem the greatest Paradox of all one of the most healthful Exercises in the World The first of these you will easily grant me when you consider that Discourse is that which principally distinguishes a Wise man from a Fool. For what else do we take our measures of one another by If a Man discourse of weighty matters and keep close to the Point and speak sharply in the Case we account him a worthy man But contrariwise if he talk flatly insipidly and impertinently we have no esteem or reverence for such a Person let his outward appearance and circumstances be otherwise what they will It is certain we cannot know a Mans thoughts or the sense of his mind till he express them A Fool we say is a Wise-man so long as he holds his peace and a Wise-man differs nothing from a Fool till he speaks For a mans actions may be by rote or custom or the direction of some other person but a mans discourse is his own Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh said our Saviour The tongue will betray not only the inclinations and passions of the heart but the very sense and capacity of the mind and the latter much more than the former as the Liquor will carry the tincture of the Vessel 'T is possible indeed for an evil and vitious man to talk vertuously and a silly man may get into a Road of wise Sayings but the Lesson he hath conn'd will soon be at an end and then he will no more be able to hold out at that rate than a flaw'd Vessel to make the same sound with a good one Wisdom and folly are widely different in their natures but it is Discourse that lays them open and makes the distinction conspicuous why then should not a man by practice endeavour to become expert at that which if he be master of will be his Glory but to be sure will make his Character But now for the vulgar methods of Conversation which commonly consists of Drinking and Gaming they are no better than Levelling Practices that observe no distance nor make any distinction amongst men the Master and Servant are at Hail Fellow the Gentleman and the Clown are upon the Square with one another the Man of Parts and Learning and the veriest Ideot and Coxcomb are upon even Ground in those Entertainments As for Drinking I cannot sufficiently wonder at that abjection of mind in Persons of Quality who as if they consented to their own degradation will contend for Victory with their Inferiors at equal Glasses when it is notorious that a Porter shall bear more than a Gentleman and a fine Wit shall be baffled and disordered with that which a thick scull'd dull Sot will carry away well enough and come off as wise a man as he entred But suppose the Gentleman should outdo the Clown and the Witt the Dunce yet as the Match was made very imprudently so the Victory would be inglorious And then for Gaming I have heard of an Ape that hath been too hard for his Master at that most ingenious Game of Chess But I have known one very near to a Natural that hath been a great Master at it And certainly it is very easie to imagine that in those other Games which are governed by Chance the Victory may fall to the less worthy Person It seems therefore a very mean thing to be eagerly intent upon that to which a Wise man hath no better title than a Fool and if we believe the Proverb much less To be sure no man can be so vain as to think himself the wiser or better man for his Conquest But now Discourse discriminates mens real abilities and bears an impartial Testimony to a mans worth and the Contests of
must tell you when the Apostle levell'd a blow at them he reach'd your phancy also for he saith expresly With the heart man believeth unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made to salvation Phil. O pardon me Sir I make no Question but that when a man is called to make profession of his faith and to discover what Religion he is of then to dissemble is to betray it and to be silent on such a critical occasion is to revolt and apostatize from it and in that sense I take it another Apostle hath required us To render to every man that asketh us a reason of the hope that is in us c. As if he had said Be not ashamed of your Perswasion but owne and defend your Religion at the greatest and most adverse Tribunals where-ever it shall be impeached But this is not the Case We are not now speaking of what must be done upon an authoritative inquisition into our Consciences or in times of persecution but what is to be done in times of peace and in common conversation and then and there I am still of opinion that at least it is not an express Duty to talk of Religion Sebast Nor do I differ from you therein For I do not assert it as an universal Duty to make Religion the matter of our Discourse But my meaning is that it will exceedingly become us to do so sometimes And I verily assure my self that he that hath a quick sense of God upon his mind will have savoury expressions of him sometimes upon ordinary occasions if a foolish modesty do not too much overcome him as well as witness a good confession in times of persecution For as our Saviour said in the passage I mentioned before Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh And it seems to me more easily conceiveable that there should be a great fire without any smoke or a great light without any heat than that such a man as is inwardly principled with the fear and love of God should be wholly tongue-tyed or be either able or willing altogether to stifle and suppress his sentiments Can a man carry fire in his bosom said the Wise man and not be burnt Such an holy fervour as I speak of will assuredly both seek and find a vent for it self and break out upon all fitting occasions in reverend and affectionate expressions by which means a man in the first place eases his own breast and besides thus this holy fire not only preserves it self from extinction but propagates it self also warming and inflaming others You have heard I suppose of an odd Superstition among the Jews who out of a pretended reverence of the name of God and to preserve it from prophanation as they supposed so long forbad the common pronuntiation of it till at length by the intermission of using it they had quite forgotten how to pronounce it And thus I am afraid it would fare with Religion if men should out of I know not what conceit forbear all Discourse of God and another World the result would be that in time both would be forgotten Not is it as you seem to imagine only times of persecution that ought to rowse up our Spirits and call for expressions of our zeal for the Road of business the successively flowing Tide of variety of entertainments in this World the soft Charms of pleasant recreations the blandishments of continual prosperity and the rust upon our minds contracted by lying still in ease and security do more endanger the state of Religion than those trying times you speak of And therefore Atheism is well known to be a Weed that thrives most in the best Weather The Seed that was sown upon stony ground fell away when the hot Sun scorched it because it had no depth of earth but that which was sown among the Thorns was choaked too though the Soil was never so good in a word Stormy Weather in the Church may tempt men to be false and treacherous and Renegadoes but I believe it never made an Atheist that and prophaneness are the ill fruit of prosperity So that you see there is need that the Spirit of piety should exert it self as well in the one season as in the other Neither will the publickly stated times or forms and exercises of Religion sufficiently secure it against this danger without such voluntary efforts and fallies of it as we are speaking of For in regard God is not to be seen and the World is before us the World to come is at distance and the present World at hand ill examples are numerous and good ones few and rare and in a word we dwell in so cold a Region that we had need not only to use a great deal of exercise but frequently to rub up one another Therefore as Socrates is said to have brought down Philosophy è Coelo in urbes from speculation to practice from high Notions to the common Affairs of Life so it seems necessary to us not only to be religious at Church and devout in our Closets but to allow it a share in our daily and ordinary converse Phil. Nay if you be for that what think you of a demure sort of people amongst us that as if their tongues were tipt with Religion will be always canting in a Scripture-phrase These men seem to think it prophane to speak intelligibly and in the common language and account a Jewish kind of Gibberish to be the peculiar Shibboleth of the Godly party And some of them arrive at such a pitch either of hypocrisy or melancholy I am loth to pronounce whether that upon the matter they allow no other Discourse to be lawful but what hath a tincture of Religion Now for my part I look upon these people as very absurd and ridiculous and therefore I hope you do not intend to give them countenance in what you are saying Sebast So far from it Phil that I account the former of the two sorts of men which you speak of to be no better than a Generation of nauseous Pharisees forasmuch as nothing betrays hypocrisie so much as overdoing and by that course of theirs they render Religion loathsome and ridiculous and tempt men to think it all Trick and Cheat. And for the other they seem to be a pitiable but crack-brain'd sort of men who render Religion very uncomfortable to themselves and indeed impracticable and impossible God knows we are not Angels but men and have concerns for the present World as well as for the other and consequently it can be no fault but a just Duty to take care of them and in order thereto to deliberate to take advice and to discourse about them And this I am so confident of that I verily believe the Apostle when he forbids that any corrupt communication should proceed out of our mouths and enjoins that it be such as is good to the use of edifying intended we should interpret the latter expression
very much commend these kind of Sports for indeed I scarce think them Sports they are rather a counterfeit kind of business and weary ones head as much as real study and business of importance So that in the use of them a man only puts a cheat upon himself and tickles himself to death for by applying himself for delight to these busie and thoughtful Games he becomes like a Candle lighted at both ends and must needs be quickly wasted away between Jest and Earnest whenas both his Cares and his Delights prey upon him Besides I observe that Diversions of this nature having so much of Chance and surprize in them do generally too much raise the passions of men which it were fitter by all Arts and endeavours to charm down and suppress For to say nothing of the usual accidents of common Gaming-Houses which as I have heard from those that knew too well are the most lively Pictures of Hell upon Earth and where it is ordinary for men to rave swear curse and blaspheme as if the Devil was indeed amongst them or the men were transformed into Infernal Spirits I have seen sad Examples of Extravagance in the more modest and private but over eager pursuits of these recreations Insomuch that sometimes a well-tempered person hath quite lost all command of himself at them So that you might see his Eyes fiery his Colour inflamed his Hands to tremble his Breath to be short his Accents of Speech fierce and violent by all which and abundance more ill-favoured symptoms you might conclude his heart to be hot and his thoughts sollicitous and indeed the whole man Body and Soul to be in an Agony Now will you call this a recreation or a rack and torture rather A rack certainly which makes a man betray those follies which every Wise-man seeks to conceal and heightens those passions which every good man endeavours to subdue And which is yet worse as I was saying this course looks like the accustoming of the Beast to be rampant and to run without the Rein. For by indulging our passions in jest we get an habit of them in earnest and accordingly shall find our selves to be enclined to be wrathful peevish and clamorous when we apply our selves to business or more grave conversation To all which add That Gaming and especially at such Games as we are speaking of doth insensibly steal away too much of our time from better business and tempts us to be Prodigals and Bankrupts of that which no Good Fortune can ever redeem or repair And this is so notoriously true that there is hardly any man who sets himself down to these Pastimes as they are called that can break off and recal himself when he designed so to do Forasmuch as either by the too great intention of his mind he forgets himself or the anger stirred up by his misfortunes and the indignation to go off baffled suffers him not to think of any thing but revenge and reparation of his losses or the hopes he is fed withal trolls him on or some witchery or other transports him so besides his first resolutions that business health family friends and even the worship of God it self are all superseded and neglected for the sake of this paltry Game All which considered I am really afraid there is more of the Devil in it than we are ordinarily aware of and that it is a temptation of his to engage us in that where he that wins most is sure to lose that which is infinitely of more value Therefore upon the whole matter I think it much safer to keep out of the lists than to engage where besides the greatness of the stake a man cannot bring himself off again without so great difficulty Pardon me Dear Philander if my zeal or indignation or what you will call it hath transported me in this Particular sure I am I have no intention to reproach your practice nor to affront you for your motioning this sport to me but speak out of hearty good will and to give you caution Phil. O. Sebastian I love you dearly and thank you heartily for the freedom you have used with me We good natur'd men as the World flatters us and we love to be stiled considering little or nothing our selves and having seldom the happiness of discreet and faithful Friends that will have so much concern for us as to admonish us of our imprudences and our dangers as if we were mere Machines move just as other men move and prompt us and so drink play and do a thousand follies for Company sake and under the countenance of one anothers example God forgive me I have too often been an instance of that which you now intimated I therefore again and again thank you for your advice and hope I shall remember as long as I live what you have said on this occasion But that you may work a perfect Cure upon me I will be so true to my self as to acquaint you faithfully with what I apprehend to be the Cause of this Epidemical Distemper I find the common and most irresistible temptation both to Drinking and Gaming is the unskilfulness of such men as my self to employ our time without such kind of diversions especially at this Season of the Year when the dark and long Evenings foul Ways and sharp Weather drive us into Clubs and Combinations If therefore you will deal freely and friendly with me herein and by your prudence help me over this difficulty you will exceedingly oblige me and do an act worthy of your self and of that kindness which brought you hither Sebast There is nothing Dear Phil within my power which you may not command me in Nor is there any thing wherein I had rather serve you if I could than in a business of this nature But all I can do and as I think all that is needful in this Case is to desire you to consider on it again and then I hope you will find the difficulty not so insuperable as you imagine It is very true Idleness is more painful than hard labour and nothing is more wearisome than having nothing to do besides as a rich Soil will be sure to bring forth Weeds if it be not sowed with more profitable Seed so the active Spirits in Man will be sure to prompt him to evil if they be not employed in doing good For the Mind can no more bear a perfect cessation and intermission than the World a Vacuum But this difficulty which you represent generally presses young men only These indeed having more Sail than Balast I mean having a mighty vigour and abundance of Spirits but not their minds furnished with a sufficient stock of knowledge and experience to govern and employ those active Spirits upon no wonder if such persons rather than do just nothing and in defect of real business do greedily catch at those shadows and resemblances of it as I remember you ingeniously called Drinking and Gaming Besides
will be no hard matter to find out more pleasant as well as more innocent entertainments of it than those now in request For in the first place there are some employments every whit as delightful as recreations themselves such as in particular Planting and Gardening in which a man may not only have the pleasure to contemplate the admirable beauty and variety of the Works of God but by improving the nature of Plants by altering the species by mixture and composition of several beauties and perfections into one by deducing one out of another exalting one by another and in a word by giving being and continuance to several things he becomes a kind of Creator himself if I may without offence use such an expression This kind of business ministers so many and so ravishing delights that I remember Cato preferred it before all the pleasure of Youth and thought the entertainment of his elder years herein a good exchange for the voluptuousness of younger years which he had now lost all use and apprehension of nay I think Epicurus himself placed a good part of his felicity in the delights of his Garden And above all I am certain that God Almighty who knew best what satisfactions were to be found within the whole sphere of his Creation and was not invidious or niggardly towards men made choice of this for the entertainment of our First Parents in their state of innocency and before their folly and sin had damned them to care and toil and to the sweat of their Brows Again There are some Exercises and Recreations both of Body and Mind which are very ingenious as well as divertive such as Singing Musick Painting and the like in which a man rather puts a pleasant deception upon himself in point of time than wholly loses it And they are so far from debauching his mind or raising his passions that they only exalt a mans phancy but otherwise compose his temper even to admiration And if you will promise not to laugh at my peculiar humour I will refer another Instance to this Head and tell you That methinks the playing with a pretty humour'd Child of three or four years old or more or less is scarcely inferior in delightfulness to any of the former where you shall observe innocency of mind benignity of temper sweet and gentle passions easie and unforced mirth unfeigned love pretty endearments of affection pleasant endeavours to speak and express it self little dawnings of reason and phancy and innumerable other things which a man can feel rather than express I called this my peculiar phancy but I do not know why it should be peculiar to me I suppose it may be more general however I confess to you I am much the better pleased with it because I find in the Gospel that our Saviour himself was not displeased with it Besides all these there are some Offices of humanity and charity which afford a man unspeakable delight in the discharge of them such as comforting a Friend or Neighbour in his affliction or assisting and counselling him in his difficulties promoting Peace and making an end of Controversies relieving a poor man in his hunger c. In all which besides the satisfaction a man hath in his own mind upon consideration that he hath done well and worthily he is also sensible of a reaction and as it were by reflection participates of the pleasure those persons find by his good Offices towards them For to say nothing of any of the other what a refreshment is it to our own bowels to observe the Appetite and Gusto with which a poor hungry man feeds upon that which you charitably supply him with And it will do a mans heart good to take notice of the strange change wrought in such a person by a bountiful entertainment his countenance more cheerful his spirits brisk his heart light his whole temper more sweet and ingenuous all which who can be accessory to without a kind of vertuous Epicurism All these which I have named are sincere and manly pleasures without noise and without danger which neither raise a mans passions nor drown his reason they are neither so fine and spiritual that the Body can have no participation of them nor so gross and feculent that the mind should be ashamed of them And in some or other of these every man that pleases may spend his vacant hours with satisfaction But let me now go a little higher and what if we take in somewhat of the other World to sweeten the present Life What think you after all of Prayer to God and reading the Scripture may not a man bestow some of his time in these with as much pleasure as devotion and so to allude to the Modern Philosophy fill up the void spaces of his Life with Celestial matter As for the former of them Prayer I remember you well observed that several of those men that complain as if they were over-burthened with time yet love to make as short work with this as they can wherein they betray either some measure of Atheism in their hearts or a great deal of sensuality in their affections and I cannot tell whether they more contradict themselves or discover their shameful ignorance of the noblest pleasures of Life For besides that it is highly agreeable to the best reason of a mans mind that he should do all honour to the Divine Majesty and daily pay his homage to his greatest Benefactor and nothing sure can be more delightful than the exercise of our highest powers about their proper Object And besides that Prayer is the known way to obtain the Divine Blessing upon which all the pleasure and comfort of our Lives depend and never fails of success one way or other Besides all this I say and abundance of other advantages of it it is the very pulse of the Soul which keeps the Spirits florid and vital It answers to the Motion of the Lungs in the Body and exhales those melancholy Vapors that would choke and suffocate our hearts By it we put our selves under the Diviue Protection and our Spirits are heightened and fortified by the Patronage of so high a Genius who can secure us against all assaults and dangers whatsoever When we have commended our selves to the Divine Providence by Prayer our hearts are at rest we are secure sleeping and waking we are never alone but have always one to second us whatever the issue and success of our endeavours be our minds are quieted if things answer our wishes we have a double satisfaction that God Almighty favours us as well as that our labours are successful if things miscarry we impute no folly nor omission to our selves we have done all that was fit for us to do but it pleased Divine Wisdom to disappoint us The frequent approach of the Divine Majesty puts a gravity upon a man's countenance checks and keeps down all exorbitancy of passions begets an ingenuous modesty and makes men as well
that it is expected from me I should benefit them and season their intercourse with something vertuous and graceful Moreover I endeavour in the whole Conduct of my self and the habit of my life to arrive at a seriousness of spirit and a deepness of thought without which neither shall I be in temper to begin or carry on any such weighty Discourse with others nor will they expect it from me a light trifling jesting Spirit is good for nothing but sport and may-game Such as can ordinarily find in their hearts to step aside to a quibble or a clinch are generally men so unfit for Religion that they are seldom useful to themselves in any secular business But a serious man hath his thoughts about him and his very mien and countenance raises the expectation of the Company and so they are half prepared to receive his impressions Now to bring my self to this temper I often represent to my self God's Omnipresence and that I am before a mighty wise and most reverend Majesty who takes notice of all my carriage and demeanour I think frequently of the Judgment to come and the wonderful accuracy and folemnity of it of the unspeakable concerns of Hell and Heaven and the whole affair of another World By these Considerations I curb the levity and wantonness of my spirit and so become both furnished with fit thoughts to communicate and also with a proper temper to communicate them Besides this I make it my earnest endeavour to be as much above the World as I can I mean to have as indifferent an esteem of Riches and Fame c. as is possible that my heart may not eagerly and intently run upon them For I find by woful experience that whensoever it warps that way I am sure to be listless and formal in any such enterprize as we are speaking of but whensoever I can contemn them then I am as it were all spirit and have so lively impresses of another World upon me that I can almost make it visible to my Companions Amongst all these I pray daily and earnestly for God's Grace and assistance that he will every where be present to me by his Holy Spirit and put useful thoughts into my heart and give me courage to express them so as to beget the like in others This Sir is the method I take with my self and having I thank God often succeeded well with it against a Cowardly heart of my own I cannot but expect it will have greater and more signal effects upon you Phil. God verifie the Omen However I thank you most heartily for the Receipt which I will keep as long as I live Sebast But I pray Good Phil do not make it publick for though I envy no Body the benefit of my experience yet I would be loth the World should know what a shameful Difease I have been sick of Phil. O Sir timidity is but a natural infirmity and hath not much shame attending it But I must tell you as my Confessor or Physician which you will of another Disease I labour under so shameful and scandalous that scarce any Body will owne it and that is ignorance if I had courage enough for the business we have all this while been speaking of yet I am afraid by my unskilfulness I shall spoil all let me therefore pray you to afford me your advice in this Case also Sebast Fear it not Phil a man of your cheerful countenance sprightly vigour and benignity of temper can never labour under any such Disease Phil. Good Sebastian be not too secure of me for this is a business of that nature that unless it be done gracefully it had better be let alone and especially because the enterprize is somewhat new and unusual therefore the greater dexterity and management is required to give it a good appearance at its setting out and so to lay a foundation for its coming into common use and reputation and besides it concerns you in Point of your own credit to furnish me out well for seeing it is you only that have put me upon it the dishonour will redound to you if I miscarry in the undertaking Sebast In earnest Sir and without a Complement you are known to be a man of so good Parts that you can never want Materials and then your sweetness of address will not fail to give great advantage and acceptation to your Discourses Now it is an hard thing that because you are pleased to think me wise therefore I must shew my self to be a Fool but that 's a small matter between Friends therefore since you will have it so I will tell you the effect of my Observation in this matter And the first thing to our purpose which I remark is the example of our Saviour and who can we better learn of And he I observe had a dexterity of applying every accidental occurrence to his holy purposes as it were by a kind of Chymistry separating the gross matter and subliming ordinary affairs to heavenly Doctrine insomuch that there was scarcely any common affair of Life such as eating or drinking or recreation no disease or infirmity of the Body no Trade and Occupation such as Merchandice or Husbandry no building or planting plowing or sowing nay not so mean employments as Womens leavening their Bread grinding at the Mill or sweeping an House but he spiritualized them and applied them to his designs Now if we would learn of him and endeavour to imitate this dexterity we might with great ease and without all violence surprize men into Religion and not only at every turn introduce pious Discourse but render the Subject of it intelligible to the meanest capacities and withal by those sensible resemblances give such lively touches upon the minds of men as that what we delivered upon those occasions would stick and remain with them And there is no great pains or skill required for the doing of this the principal requisite to it is a zeal of God's Glory and such a constant and fixed eye upon it as shall make us apprehensive of the opportunities that present themselves and then a little humility to condescend to the weakness of people which two things presupposed a very small exercise of fancy would draw the parallels and make the application as any man will quickly find that will set himself about it As for instance when we visit a sick Friend or Neighbour what a fair opportunity have we to discourse of the Immortality of the Soul and what an easie transition is it from a Physician to a Saviour Or why may we not as well chear up our afflicted Friend with the comforts of Religion as well as amuze or divert him with impertinent Stories Or suppose Friends be together and disposed to be merry why may not some word come in seasonably of the everlasting friendships in Heaven or of the continual Feast of a good Conscience Why may not the common Chat about News be elevated to the