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A32820 The ivstification of the independant chvrches of Christ being an answer to Mr. Edvvards his booke, which hee hath written against the government of Christ's chvrch and toleration of Christs, publike worship : briefely declaring that the congregations of the saints ought not to have dependancie in government upon any other : or direction in worship from any other than Christ their head and lavv-giver / by Katherine Chidley. Chidley, Katherine. 1641 (1641) Wing C3832; ESTC R5068 79,911 92

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is worthy of his hire and that it is their duty to make them partakers of their carnall things of whom they receive spirituall things Further you are carefull to have them sober and peaceable and not to preach and speake against what is established by Law * Indeede I must tell you in my judgement no man can make way for a true Reformation except hee declare what is evill before he shew what is good Further you say you suppose subscriptions will not be injoyned to formes of Government and Discipline Here you seeme to yeeld that your formes of Government and Discipline be not of God then if there be no injunction none will obey but if injunctions none will obey for conscience for what good man can yeeld to an injuction that is not of God so then you may see your injunctions have beene the way and meanes to breed and bring forth a world of hypocrites as one may easily see by the Timeservers of your Church But you say that without a toleration we may injoy in a secret way our Church fellowship Indeede M. Edwards we have learned that lesson already for Christ hath taught us that we shall fly into the Wildernesse * and that the earth shall helpe us * but sometimes it proves to the danger of our lives and alwayes to the danger of our liberty as it may appeare by the practise herein London for though wee meete never so privately and peaceably yet such Cattle as your selfe are alwayes bleeting in the eares of your Parish Officers and Constables with your other Officers even till you move the Lord Major himself to be your drudge and as your horne which you push forward for the destruction of our bodies when he hath laid violent hands on them for it is evident that it hath beene to the losse of some of their lives and this is the liberty we have in this Kingdome and all through the instigation of you Priests But you say though some of the more sober and conscientious Ministers and people could use it better yet the Brownists and Anabaptists and weake brethren would be apt to scandall and therefore to avoid scandall you would i●si●●ate that we are bound to neglect the whole forme of Church worship I told you before and I tell you now that you are afraid to have your owne glory ecclipsed and by this all men may see and by all your formers answers also that you would have us to enjoy in this Kingdome neither Ordinances nor conscience The next thing you lay downe is the judgement of an antient Father But indeede he is as sound in the faith as your selfe for hee would have men to joyne to Churches that have no power * And this being the sixth answer that you have given to their third reason you entreat them to lay all your sixe together and to consider s●●ly whether God require unlesse they have a toleration to leave the Kingdome to runne many hazards and dangers when as they may enjoy so much at home without a Toleration as you say you have opened to these sixe answers To ●ch I answer when they are laid all six together they make but a peece of an answer to one of their Reasons and this piece of your answer is stuffed full of falicies as hath beene already proved and may further appeare by the conclusion of all here when you say they may have so much at home for it hath beene proved already that they can have nothing at home either in respect of liberty or worship but what they must have by stealth for when they would injoy the Ordinances of God which are Iewels which you would have none to have but your selves that so you might seeme glorious If any I say will presume to borow the Iewels and carry them away you will pursue after them and you know it was the practise of the Egyptians of old for they would have suffered the Israelites to have gone away empty and left their cattle behinde them so that they might have had nothing with them to have offered sacrifice withall and I pray you were not the Southsayers the cause of this by withstanding Moses and Aaron against the children of Israel even by the false Figures which they cast before the eyes of Pha●aoh to harden Phar●ahs heart even as you Priests doe at this day And thus I have laid together your sixe Reasons and weighed them but one truth is sufficient to over weigh them all But yet you have also a seventh Answer which is by it selfe and it is this That if they will not be satisfied say you without setting up Churches it is better they should get out of the Kingdome Besides you would have all others that be of this minde to leave the Land and goe to New-England that cannot be satisfied but that they must erect Churches to the disturbing of the peace of three Kingdomes Truely Mr. Edwards you shew your selfe a bloody minded man that would have the Innocent suffer for the faults of them that are guilty Was not the sending of your Masse-bookes into Scotland the cause of the disturbance and hath it not appeared plaine enough to the Parliament and to the Scots before the Parliament sate that the Bishops and Priests were the cause of the disturbance I doubt not but you have read both the Scotish Intentions and their Demands with their Declarations which have plainely manifested who and what was the cause of the disturbance it was not the meeting of a handfull of the Lords people which ever sought and do seeke the good and wellfare of the three Kingdomes with the life happy reigne of their Soveraigne Lord the King who alwayes sue unto God for the peace of the Kingdome in whose peace they may enjoy peace but contrariwise it plainely appeares that it was you and your Fathers house which caused this variance But say you it will be no great harme for many of them to goe away I answer It is like you apprehend the Judgements of God comming upon you and you thinke to be eased by driving out the Lords people in haste Further you say you would rather goe to the uttermost parts of the earth to live in a meane and hard condition rather than you would disturbe the peace or good of three Kingdomes For Answer to this I must tell you I would you had considered this before you had done it But now seeing God of his mercy hath reconciled them againe it may be the wisedome of you and your fellowes to depart unto Rome that Gods true Religion may be set up here in England without Popish Injunctions that so the last errour be not worse than the first for you say It is better that one perish than Vnity therefore in my judgement it is better that they should runne the hazard who have occasioned the strife Further you plead for your selfe and for hundreds of your brethren that you have borne the brunt