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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A81336	A collection of speeches made by Sir Edward Dering Knight and Baronet, in matter of religion. Some formerly printed, and divers more now added: all of them revised, for the vindication of his name, from weake and wilfull calumnie: and by the same Sir Edward Dering now subjected to publike view and censure, upon the urgent importunity of many, both gentlemen and divines.	Dering, Edward, Sir, 1598-1644.	1642 (1642)	Wing D1104; Thomason E197_1; ESTC R212668	73,941	173

time of extirpation and abolition of any more then his Archiepiscopacy our professed rooters themselves many of them at that houre had I perswade my selfe more moderate hopes then since are entertained A severe reformation was a sweet song then I am and ever was for that and for no more It is objected that I goe counter to what I have publikly asserted in the House have patience and take a copy of what I have spoken in matter of Religion Section II. Novemb. 10. 1640. Mr. Speaker YEsterday the great affaires of this House did borrow all the time allotted to the great Committee for Religion I am sorry that having but halfe a day in a whole week we have lost that Mr. Speaker It hath pleased God to put into the heart of his Majesty for the Kings heart is in the hand of the Lord once more to asseble us into a Senate to consult upon the unhappy distractions the sad dangers and the much feared ruins of this late flourishing Church and Kingdome God be praised both for his goodnesse and for his severity whereby he hath impelled this meeting and humble thanks unto his Majesty whose parentall care of us his Subjects is willing to relieve us The sufferances that we have undergone are reducible to two heads The first concerning the Church the second belonging to the Common-wealth The first of these must have the first fruits of this Parliament as being the first in weight and worth and more immediate to the honour of God and his glory every dramme whereof is worth the whole weight of a Kingdome The Common-wealth it is true is full of apparent dangers The sword is come home unto us and the two twin-Nations united together under one royall head brethren together in the bowels and the bosome of the same Island and which is above all imbanded together with the same Religion I say the same Religion by a devillish machination like to be fatally imbrued in each others blood ready to dig each others grave Quantillum ab●uit For other grievances also the poore disheartned subject sadly groanes not able to distinguish betwixt Power and Law And with a weeping heart no question hath prayed for this hower in hope to be relieved and to know hereafter whether any thing he hath besides his poore part and portion of the Common ayre he breathes may be truly called his own These Mr. Speaker and many other doe deserve and must shortly have our deep regard but Suo gradu not in the first place There is a unum necessarium above all our worldly sufferances and dangers Religion the immediate service due unto the honour of Almighty God And herein let us all be confident that all our consultations will prove unprosperous if we put any determination before that of Religion For my part Let the Sword reach from the North to the South and a generall perdition of all our remaining right and safety threaten us in open view it shall be so farre from making me to decline the first setling of Religion that I shall ever argue and rather conclude it thus The more great the more imminent our perils of this world are the stronger and quicker ought our care to be for the glory of God and the pure Law of our soules If then M. Speaker it may passe with full allowance that all our cares may give way unto the treaty of Religion I will reduce that also to be considered under two heads first of Ecclesiasticke persons then of Ecclesiasticke causes Let no man start or be affrighted at the imagined length of this consultation it will not it cannot take up so much time as it is worth This it is God and the King this is God and the Kingdom nay this is God and the two Kingdomes cause And therefore M. Speaker my humble motion is that we may all of us seriously speedily and heartily enter upon this the best the greatest the most important cause we can treat of Now M. Speaker in pursuit of my own motion and to make a little enterance into this great affaire I will present unto you the petition of a poore oppressed Minister in the County of Kent A man Orthodox in his doctrine conformable in his life laborious in the Ministery as any we have or I doe know He is now a sufferer as all good men are under the generall obloquy of a Puritan as with other things was excellently delivered by that silver trumpet at the Barre The Pursivant watches his doore and divides him and his Cure asunder to both their griefes For it is not with him as perhaps with some that set the Pursivant at worke gladded of an excuse to be out of their pulpit It is his delight to Preach About a week since I went over to Lambeth to move that great Bishop too great indeed to take this danger off from this Minister and to recall the Pursivant And withall I did undertake for Master Wilson for so your Petitioner is called that he should answer his accusers in any of the Kings Courts at Westminster The Bishop made me answer as neere as I can remember in haec verba I am sure that he wil not be absent from his Cure a twelve-moneth together and then I doubt not but once in a yeere we shall have him This was all I could obtaine but I hope by the help of this house before this yeere of threats run round His Grace will either have more Grace or no Grace at all For our manifold griefes doe fill a mighty and a vast circumference yet so that from every part our lines of sorrow doe lead unto him and point at him the Center from whence our miseries in this Church and many of them in the Common-wealth do flow Let the Petition be read and let us enter upon the worke WHat is here for Root and Branch I can not find a line that I can wish unsaid nor do I read a letter that I would go lesse in It is replied that the petitioner M. Wilson is a man for Root and Branch if he be that was no part of his petition nor indeed any part of my knowledge then I am no more obliged to answer herein then I am bound to own and defend M. Wilson if he should hereafter cast aside the cōmon prayer what were that to me or to what I then did say sure I am that I was well assured that he did not allow of separation then and that he had been a powerfull perswader of others not to withdraw from our publike Service And I thinke so well of his goodnesse temper and conscience that he will not easily be led away to these mistaking excesses Section III. THE next is that which I spake in the grand Committee of the whole House for Religion M. White holding that Chaire whereof this is a copy 23. Novem. 1640. M. White YOu have many private Petitions give me leave by word of mouth to interpose one more

own great cause in hand which they impiously doe mis-call the piety of the times but in truth so wrong a Piety that I am bold to say In facinus jurasse putes Here in this Petition is the Disease represented here is the Cure intreated The number of your Petitioners is considerable being above five and twenty hundred names and would have been foure times as many if that were thought materiall The matter in the Petition is of high import but your Petitioners themselves are all of them quiet and silent at their own houses humbly expecting and praying the resolution of this great Senate upon these their earnest and their hearty desires Here is no noyse no numbers at your door they will be neither your trouble nor your jealousie for I do not know of any one of them this day in the Town So much they do affie in the goodnesse of their petition and in the justice of this House If now you want any of them here to make avowance of their Petition I am their servant I do appeare for them and for my selfe and am ready to avow this petition in their names and in my own Nothing doubting but fully confident that I may justly say of the present usage of the Hierarchy in the Church of England as once the Pope Pope Adrian as I remember said of the Clergy in his time A vertice capitis ad plantam pedis nihil est sanum in toto ordine ecclesiastico I beseech you read the Petition regard us and relieve us The petition it selfe speaks thus To the Honourable the Commons House of Parliament The humble Petition of many the Inhabitants within His Majesties County of Kent MOst humbly shewing That by sad experience we doe daily finde the government in the Church of England by Archbishops Lord-bishops Deanes Archdeacons with their Courts Jurisdictions and Administrations by them and their inferiour Officers to be very dangerous both to Church and Common-wealth and to be the occasion of manifold grievances unto his Majesties Subjects in their consciences liberties and estates And likely to be fatall unto us in the continuance thereof The dangerous effects of which Lordly power in them have appeared in these particulars following 1. They doe with a hard hand over-rule all other Ministers subjecting them to their cruell authority 2. They do suspend punish and deprive many godly religious and painfull Ministers upon slight and upon no grounds whilst in the mean time few of them doe preach the Word of God themselves and that but seldome But they doe restraine the painfull preaching of others both for Lectures and for afternoon Sermons on the Sabbath day 3. They do countenance and have of late encouraged Papists Priests and Arminian both Bookes and persons 4. They hinder good and godly books to be printed yet they do licence to be published many popish Arminian and other dangerous tenents 5. They have deformed our Churches with popish pictures and suited them with Romish Altars 6. They have of late extolled and commended much the Church of Rome denying the Pope to be Antichrist affirming the Church of Rome to be a true Church in fundamentals 7. They have practised and inforced antiquated and obsolete ceremonies as standing at the Hymnes at Gloria patri and turning to the East at severall parts of the Divine Service bowing to the Altar which they tearm the place of Gods residence upon earth the reading of a second service at the Altar and denying the holy Sacrament of the Eucharist to such as have not come up to a new set Rayle before the Altar 8. They have made and contrived illegall Canons and Constitutions and framed a most pernitious and desperate oath an oath of covenant and confederacy for their owne Hierarchicall greatnesse beside many other dangerous and pernicious passages in the said Canons 9. They doe dispence with plurality of Benefices they do both prohibite and grant marriages neither of them by the rule of Law or conscience but do prohibite that they may grant and grant that they may have money 10. They have procured a licencious liberty for the Lords day but have pressed the strict observation of Saints holidaies and do punish suspend degrade deprive godly Ministers for not publishing a Book for liberty of sports on the Sabbath day 11. They doe generally abuse the great ordinance of excommunication making sometimes a gaine of it to the great discomfort of many poore soules who for want of money can get no absolution 12. They claime their Office and jurisdiction to be jure divino and do exercise the same contrary to law in their own names and under their own Seales 13. They receive and take upon them temporall honours dignities places and offices in the Comonwealth as if it were lawfull for them to use both Swords 14. They take cognisance in their Courts and elsewhere of matters determinable at the Common law 15. They put Ministers upon Parishes without the patron and without the peoples consent 16. They do yeerly impose oaths upon Churchwardens to the most apparent danger of filling the Land with perjury 17. They do exercise oathes ex officio in the nature of an Inquisition even into the thoughts of men 18. They have apprehended men by Pursivants without citation or missives first sent they break up mens houses and studies taking away what they please 19. They do awe the Iudges of the Land with their greatnesse to the inhibiting of prohibitions and hindring of habeas Corpus when it is due 20. They are strongly suspected to be confederate with the Roman party in this Land and with them to be authors contrivers or consenters to the present commotions in the North the rather because of a contribution by the Clergy and by the Papists in the last yeer 1639. and because of an ill named benevolence of six Subsidies granted or intended to be granted this present yeare 1640. thereby and with these moneys to engage as much as in them lay the two Nations into blood It is therefore humbly and earnestly prayed that this Hierarchicall power may be totally abrogated if the wisdome of this Honourable House shall find that it cannot be maintained by Gods Word and to his glory And we your Petitioners shall ever pray c. Section V. Upon occasion of what I said of the late Canons I might easily have pressed the abolition of the founders and of the whole order of prelacy And surely if it had been my wish I would as others have so exprest my selfe Here followes my argument against these Canons and that chiefly aymed against the founders of them yet nothing of Root and Branch therein 14. Decemb. 1640. M. Speaker THat the late Canons are invalidous it will easily appeare and that they are so originally in the foundation or rather in the founders of them I will assume upon my selfe to demonstrate having first intimated my sense by way of preparative The Pope as they say hath a

Luke {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} and {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} So that plainely you must not pretend tyrannizing to be meant in the sence of one place except you can finde it also in both unlesse you will come to this that he forbiddeth tyranny in one place and worldly power in the other which if you do you grant the question This is enough alone yet for a further interpretation of {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} looke in Genesis 1. 28. where God giveth unto man in the time of mans innocency the rule and dominion over all his creatures even whilest they all were a very good The name and word of power in that great Charter granted is {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} Now the time of this power granted the person to whom it is granted the creatures all good on whom it was to be exercised and above all the goodnesse of Amighty God who granted it do exclude all imagination of a Tyrannicall power and admit onely of a fatherly mastership over the new creatures of God The same word is used againe Psalm 110. 2. and there applyed to our blessed Saviour {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} Rule thou in the middest of thine enemies Aquila hath {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} Invalesce prevaile over thine enemies Symmachus {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} do thou correct or instruct thine enemies If then the frequent and constant sence of both {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} and {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} be onely to have power and authority civill temporall and ordinary dominion and that all such authority is forbidden them how poore and weake is that evasion for our Bishops who would have this speech of our Saviour taken in a forced sence different from all these other places and would forge a new meaning as if our Saviour did not here forbid {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} but onely {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} not a commanding Lordlinesse but a Tyrannous use of it when as it is hereby evident that Christ having ordained the Aristocracy of twelve did therein and in his reprehension here take away those severall benches of honour and that proud imparity of temporall power which our Bishops doe swell withall That the former speeches of our Saviour do destroy the Lordlinesse of our Prelates let us confirme it with a farther consideration which is thus Our Saviour Christ being a the wisdome of God must be thought to fit and suit his answer to the question and request made unto him by the two Apostles But what Bishop in defence of his usurped power dares affirme that two such admirable a Pillars as James and John should aske of such a Master iniquam dominationem a cruell dominion over their fellowes as if the meaning of their request were thus Master give us two leave to tyrannize over the other ten He had taught them before b Blessed are the meeke and c Learne of me for I am meeke and lowly in heart Can it then be thought that the beloved Disciple and his brother shall aske of the master of all humility a Tyrannicall power to oppresse their partners No man hath such a heart of Lead to thinke yet there have not wanted foreheads of Brasse to affirme so Certainly in that Kingdome of Christ by them as then supposed to be temporall they desired the honour to shine in civill dignity and eminency of power and authority which no question they intended to have exercised with all brotherly moderation yet are they and I wish our Bishops also were answered with his reprehension first d Ye know not what ye aske next with his absolute denyall and forbiddance {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} c. It shall not be so among you Will the practice of Saint Paul and the counsell of S. Peter serve for comment to this text Saint Paul saith {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} a We Lord it not S. Peter himselfe an Elder to other Elders exhorteth them to feed the flocke {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} overseeing it and that not by constraint {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} b nor as being Lords Therefore my resolution stands cleare upon this vote That it may be declared that true and right Episcopacy is incompatible and inconstant with the authority of a secular jurisdiction They who give in their names to be labourers in Gods Vineyard must not goe out of the doore and thinke to returne at pleasure their whole time they have vowed to the great Master of the Vineyard and I finde no wages promised but to them who enter and continue there to the last houre c No man putting his hand to the plough and looking backe is fit for the Kingdome of God Let therefore this inhibitory Statute against Bishops holding the secular jurisdiction of temporall Lordships stand as it must stand irrepealeable {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} It shall not be so among you Thus by vouching a divine Statute that Bishops should not be Lords I do plainely involve my selfe in this conclusion that Bishops are and ought to be Such is such ever was my sense so far am I from the Rooters God forbid that we should destroy the function of Episcopacy but God grant we may with his Majesties leave un-Lord them from a domineering power For to my sence Synesius doth very well deliver himselfe {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} To conjoyne the principality with the Priesthood is to close together things inconsistent And againe {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} Why doe you endeavour to joyne those things that are separated by God In this opinion I may receive as little thanks from the Prelates as I find full satisfaction in my own bosome Section VIII UPon thursday May 21. I subjected my selfe to the obloquy I suffer The Bill for Abolition of our present Episcopacy was pressed into my hand by S. A. H. being then brought unto him by S. H. V. and O. C. He told me he was resolved that it should goe in but was earnestly urgent that I would present it The Bill did hardly stay in my hand so long as to make a hasty perusall Whilst I was overviewing it Sir Edward Aiscough delivered in a Petition out of Lincolnshire which was seconded by M. Strode in such a sort as that I had a faire invitement to issue forth the Bill then in my hand Hereupon I stood up and said this which immediately after I reduced into writing Mr. Speaker THe Gentleman that spake last taking notice of the multitude of complaints and complaynants against the present government of the Church doth somewhat seeme to wonder that we have no more pursuit ready against the persons offending Sir the time is present and the work is ready perhaps beyond his

expectation Sir I am now the instrument to present unto you a very short but a very sharpe Bill such as these times and their sad necessities have brought forth It speakes a free language and makes a bold request It is a purging Bill I give it you as I take Physick not for delight but for a cure A cure now the last and onely cure if as I hope all other remedies have first been tried Then Immedicabile vulnus c. But Cuncta prius tentanda I never was for Ruine so long as I could hold any hope of Reforming My hopes that way are even almost withered This Bill is entituled An Act for the utter abolishing and taking away of all Archbishops Bishops their Chancellors and Commissaries Deanes Deans and Chapters Arch-deacons Prebendaries Chanters and Chanons and all other their under-Officers Sir you see their demerits have exposed them Publici odii piaculares victimas I am sorry they are so ill I am more sorry that they will not be content to be bettered which I did hope would have beene effected by our last Bill When this Bill is perfected I shall give a sad I unto it And at the delivery in thereof I doe now professe before hand that if my former hopes of a full Reformation may yet revive and prosper I will againe divide my sence upon this Bill and yeeld my shoulders to underprop the primitive lawfull and just Episcopacy yet so as that I will never be wanting with my utmost paines and prayers to Roote out all the undue adjuncts to it and superstructures on it I beseech you read the Bill and weigh well the worke This is the neerest Act that ever I have done for Abolition and if I suffer for this it is 〈◊〉 altogether undeservedly 〈◊〉 my profession here is to Root out all undue adjuncts and superstructures but to underprop the Primitive Episcopacy And as before I said a little addition to this Bill might have given us a good Reformation Take away the present Dioceses but state forth the future in the same Bill The heads of which forme shall anon be presented to you Section IX THe next passage of this nature was upon the same Bill whilest it stood as yet it stands in Commitment to the whole House Mr. Hide excellent well discharging that Chaire And this was the first which was distasted abroad Many have importuned me for copies but I have yet issued none out of my hand though it were spoken above seven moneths since 21. Jun. 1641. M. Hide YOu have here a Bill but such a one as is likely to be short-liv'd and not to grow into a perfect Act unlesse you please to adde therunto some very important very significant proviso's such wherein we may have or whereby we may be assured in another Bill to have a future government in roome of this that goes out I am confident the Lords will otherwise debate and dispute your Bil quite out of doors Sir we are all bound unto the goodnesse of his sacred Majesty God preserve him and his for it none of all our Bils none of our petitions this Parliament have miscarried in his royall hand but have beene all compleated with the Royall assent But the Ambition of some of our Prelates will not let them see how incompatible two severall contradistinguished functions are in one the same person And therefore there is left you neither Root nor Branch of that so good so necessary a Bill which lately we did send up and consequently no hope of such a Reformation as we all do aime at What sparke of hope can we then have that this Bill which strikes at Root and Branch both of their Seats of Justice there and of their Episcopall Chaires in the Church will passe as it is and without tender of some other government in lieu of this since the voyces are still the same which outed your former Bill Truly I professe my hopes are sad in this never had one Parliament so many great affaires never had any Parliament any affaire so great as this which we call the Bill of Episcopacy Certaine Sir it is the great Hope or the exceeding Feare of every man here and of all men abroad Many a time this Parliament I have heard and not unjustly that the businesse then in hand was of as great consequence as any had been agitated within these walls But in truth Sir to my apprehension neither Star-Chamber nor High Commission nor Shipmoney nor Straffords death nor Canterburies life are with me equivalent to the setling or unsetling of the whole nationall Church of this Kingdome We cannot answer to God or man if we doe not use our best and most vigorous endeavours for the peace of the Church we live in I should thinke this a happy day if we could so temper this Bill that it might walke fairely on through the house of Lords unto the King To this end and that we may not lose all by asking more then all I will be bold to offer to your consideration a provisionall addition or two Such as I hope may both satisfie us and secure our Bill by fit amendments Here was a little interception and then a long additionall to the Bill presented in writing for putting all Church-government into the hands of Commissioners in every Diocesse I proceeded Sir there is now offered unto you a large addition to your Bill longer indeed by far then the Bill it selfe It seemes to desire that a proportionall number of Clergy and Laity may be commissionated together for all ecclesiasticke jurisdiction untill a future government be resolved on I must confesse I am not satisfied with this way of Commissioners it would joy me much and satisfie me more if as one government goes out I could see another come in and that without an Inter-regnum of Commissioners We are resolved that the present way of government is unsufferable let it goe but let us have another This I conceive to be feisible and that in fewer lines fewer words then this additionall increment now offered to your Bill which in truth will make me like your Bill worse then I did before To this purpose I doe lay this ground A Church government we must have This is within these walls for ought I heare on all hands agreed upon and then by unavoydable necessity this government must be distributed into parts into certaine limits circuits and divisions of places wherein it is to be exercised Unto this being granted I do subjoyn three propositions and they are these First our present Dioceses are for the most part much too large too vast I desire therefore that the circuit for future Church government may be reduced to the common boundaries and limits of our severall shires The disproportion from thence objected shall be easily answered 2. Next in every of these divisions I desire that some choice able grave Divines twelve or more in a shire may be by the Parliament appointed to