under them But they all were strangers from the life of God yea most averse and opposite yea cruell and bloudy Persecutors of the Name and followers of Jesus and yet unto these is subjection commanded Now then I argue If Paul had commanded this subjection to Romane Magistrates in spirituall causes to defend the Truth to punish Hereticks neither of which they could discerne nor judge of but by Trust from others as Pilate condemned Jesus he must in the Judgement of all men have put out the eye of Faith and Reason and sense at once Defender Not in the Judgement of all men for besides Calvin and Beza whose Judgement you have heard all those Interpreters who expound this place in the Romans of the Magistrates power in punishing spirituall evill doers as well as corporall they none of them doe so judge that Paul in commanding the Churches to yeild subjection unto civill Magistrates in matters of Religion did put out the Eye of Faith and Reason and sense at once For first it is one thing to yeild subjection to the unrighteous Decrees of Ignorant and Pagan Magistrates another thing to obey their Ordinances in matters of Faith and worship and Government of the Church The former of these Christians did yeild unto the Romane Magistrates even subjection unto the Death the other they neither did nor ought to yeild as knowing God was to be obeyed rather then men Secondly though it be true whilst the Romane Emperours and Magistrates were Pagans and Persecutors they were incompetent Judges to discerne and give Sentence in the spirituall matters of Christian Religion yet the word of Christ who commandeth a Duty commandeth all the necessary meanes which tend to that Duty And therefore in giving them a Power and charge to execute vengeance on evill doers and that in matters of spirituall unrighteousnesse against the Church as in matters of Civill unrighteousnesse against the Common-wealth It behoved them to enquire and listen after true Religion to heare and trie all and upon serious deliberate and just scruting to hold fast that which is good and so prevent the disturbance thereof by the contrary It was no vaine charge of the Holy Ghost Psal 2 10 11 12. If Christ have an Iron Scepter in his hand to crush all States and Kingdomes Emperours and Princes as well as private persons Be wise now therefore ô yee Kings be instructed yee that are Judges of the Earth serve the Lord with feare rejoyce unto him with trembling Kisse the Sonne least he be angry and yee perish in the way Thirdly the cases of Religion wherein we allow Civill Magistrates to be Judges are so fundamentall and palpable that no Magistrate studious of Religion in the feare of God but if he have any spirituall discerning as all truly Christian Magistrates have and even Pagans have discerned between innocent Christians and turbulent Seducers he cannot but judge of such grosse corruptions as are unsufferable in Religion as hath been opened above Though we reserve to the Prophets and Churches Judicium Propheticum as hath been said above yet we allow Judicium Politicum to Civill Magistrates studious of Truth as all ought to be and the Judgement of Discretion unto all Christians But as for such Magigistrates as are meerely naturall and Pagan though Christians be bound to subject themselves unto them with patience yet such Magistrates ought to forbeare the exercise of their Power either in protecting or punishing matters of Religion till they have learned so much knowledge of the Truth as may enable them to discerne of things that differ But this forbearance of theirs is not for want of Authority in their callings nor for want of Duty in their Consciences but for want of evidence to them in the cause In which Case Magistrates are wont to forbeare their exercise of their Power and to respit Judgement even in Civill causes not for want of Authority or Duty to doe Justice But for want of ripe and full cognizance of the Cause CHAP. 49. A Reply to his Chap. 49. Discusser VVHy then did Paul himselfe appeale to Caesar Acts 25. unlesse that Caesar though he was not yet yet he ought to have been a fit Judge in such matters Answ Paul appealed to Caesar not to judge the cause of his Religion but to defend him from civill violence and slanderous accusations about sedition mutiny civill Disobedience c. From which Caesar as a supreme civill Magistrate ought to defend him Defender This appeale of Paul to Caesar doth evidently hold forth three things 1. That there is a lawfull and needfull use of civill Magistracy unto Christians 2. That Church Officers even of highest ranck the Apostles themselves and other Ministers are subject to civill Authority as well as private Christians 3. That Paul did submit to Caesars Judgement-seate the tryall of his innocency as well in matters of Religion as in civill conversation For he pleadeth his innocency that he was guilty in none of those things whereof they did accuse him and for tryall hereof he appealeth to Caesar ver 11. Now the things whereof they did accuse him were offences against the Law of the Jewes and against the Temple as well as against Caesar ver 8. And offences against the Law of the Jewes and against the Temple were matters of Religion And yet even in these Paul appealeth to Caesars Judgement-seat for tryall of his innocency Discusser But if Paul in this Appeale to Caesar had submitted his Religion which was the cause of Christ his Ministery and Ministration to the Romane Emperours Tribunall he had sinned First against the light of Reason Secondly against the cause of Religion Thirdly against the holy Calling of a Christian Fourthly against his owne calling of Apostleship Fifthly against the holy name of God c. Defender All these sinnes might with some colour have been charged upon Paul if he had appealed to Caesar to Judge whether his Religion or Ministery or Ministration were of God or no. But that was no point of his Appeale But whether his Religion or Ministery or Ministration were guilty of any capitall crime against the Law of the Jewes or against the Temple or against Caesar Now in this case Paul might safely appeale to Caesar and that to the Honour of God of his Apostolick and Christian Calling and to the glory of his Religion The Reasons against Pauls Appeale in this case are but bul-rushes CHAP. 50. A Reply to his Chap. 50. Discusser HAving dispatched two Arguments against the founding of the civill Magistrates power in spirituall causes in Rom. 13. First from the Testimony of Calvin and Beza the second from Caesars incompetency and insufficiency to Judge of spirituall matters I come now to the third Argument taken from the nature of the Magistrates weapons he hath a Sword and that Sword is a civill Sword a Sword of civill Justice which being of a materiall and civill nature serveth for the defence of Persons Estates Families Liberties of
Text in Isai 49.23 Discusser 1. THat place of Isaiah 49.23 will appeare to be farre from proving such Kings and Queenes Judges of Ecclesiasticall causes And if not Judges they may not punish 2. In spirituall things themselves are subject to the Church shall licke the dust of the Churches feet as is there exprest How then shall those Kings and Queenes be Supreame Governours of the Church 3. Gods Israel of old being earnest for a King an Arme of flesh God gave them Saul in his anger and tooke him away in his wrath So God will take away such Princes in his wrath that so as David succeeded Saul so Christ Jesus in his spirituall Power may for ever be advanced Defender Reply 1. We doe not alledge that place in Isaiah to prove Kings and Queenes to be Judges of Ecclesiasticall causes but to be providers for the Churches well-being and protectours of it For so much the very phrase of nursing Fathers and Mothers doth necessarily import But if they be Protectours of the Church and providers of the well-being of it then are they also Defenders of the faith of it so farre as their defence in a way of God is dispensable So Magistrates are also called Shepheards of the people as well as Ministers Ezec. 34. Now it is a part of a Shepheards protection of his sheepe to drive away wolves from sheepe-folds And it is the like part of good Magistrates to drive away false Prophets from the Churches whom our Saviour calleth ravening wolves Matth. 7.15 But saith he Magistrates are not Judges of Ecclesiasticall causes and if not Judges they may not punish Answ There is a three-fold Judgement 1. A Judgement of private spirituall Discretion and so a spirituall man judgeth all things 1 Cor. 2.15 and so may a Magistrate judge also if he be a spirituall man 2. There is Judicium Propheticum A propheticall Judgement whereby the Prophets having received a greater gift of spirituall discerning of the things of God and an office to declare the same doe judge of Doctrins with Authority Let the Prophets judge 2 Cor. 14.29.32 And this the Ministeriall Judgement of the Church but here the Magistrates Judgement doth not interpose as a Magistrate but as a Brother 3. There is Judicium Politicum the Judgement of civill power whereby a Magistrate being called of God to provide that his people may lead a peaceable life in godlinesse and honesty he therefore is called to discerne not onely what is honesty or righteousnes before men but what is godlinesse also before the Lord accordingly judgeth of godly ungodly doctrines practises so far as tendeth to the upholding of publicke Peace For it is evident in the Scriptures of the New-Testament that when Magistrates were so blindly devout and superstitious as to give their Kingdomes unto the Beast as Rev. 17.12 13. and so to tolerate the publicke worship of Images and other Idolls they thereby overthrew the civill Peace of their Common-wealth For to punish their ungodlinesse it was that God opened a way for the Turkes to breake out and destroy the 3d part of Christendome Rev. 9.14 to 21. Reply 2. Both these may well stand together that Magistrates may be subject to the Church and licke the dust of her feet yet be supreame Governours of the Church also In spirituall matters and in the right administration of them the Magistrates are subject to the Church But in civill matters and in corrupt administration of Church-Affaires so farre corrupt as tendeth to the disturbance of civill Peace there the Magistrates are supreame Governours even over Churches also in their owne Dominions Reply 3. It was no sinne in Israel of old to aske a King but to aske him before the time appointed and to aske him in a tumultuous manner with rejection of Samuel and to aske him for carnall and prophane ends that they might be like to all other Nations whom God did not approve they should affect to be like unto Otherwise had they tarried Gods time God had appointed to give them a King out of the Tribe of Judah Gen. 49.10 It is true God tooke away Saul in his wrath but not for exercising civill Power against spirituall wickednesse for he did justly exercise it against Witches but for other well-knowne notorious wickednesse And as for David we doe not reade that he did exercise any spirituall Power as a King but as a Prophet CHAP. 32. A Reply to his Chap. 32. Discusser THough for the present the punishment of corrupt Teachers as the Scribes and Pharises were be deferred yet their waiteth for them an higher pitch of punishment then any Corporall can reach unto As 1. Starke Blindnesse c. 2. Incurable Blindnesse c. 3. Their end is the Ditch c. 4. The Leaders of others into the ditch shall find their owne ruine horrible and the ruine of their followers eternally galling tormenting Defender The Discusser himselfe knoweth and accordingly expresseth himselfe in his next words That it is the like case of all sinners and of all malefactours their punishment in hell will be more horrible and full of torment then can be inflicted in this world And yet the State is often bound to punish them and in many cases by death it selfe Discusser Be it so But what is this to a blind Pharisee resisting the Doctrine of Christ who hapily may be as good a Subject and as peaceable and profitable to the civill State as any c. Defender But what is this to the question in hand we doe not hold it lawfull for a Christian Magistrate to compell by civill sword either Pharisee or any Jew or Pagan to professe the Religion or Doctrine of the Lord Jesus much lesse doe we thinke it meet for a private Christian to provoke either Jewish or Pagan Magistrates to compell Pharises to submit to the Doctrine or Religion of Christ Jesus And therefore all these Chapters from 29. to 35. seven Chapters in all tending to prove that Christs Disciples were to let the Pharises alone in this way are but so many empty flourishes beating the aire playing with a shadow And yet the rest of the Chapters which remaine must not passe without some Advertisement of such passages in them as doe corrupt the truth of Christ How the Pharises can be as good subjects and as peaceable and profitable to the civill State as any who yet destroyed the civill State by destroying Christ let any but a blind conscience judge CHAP. 33. Discusser IT is truth The mischiefe of a blind Pharises blind guidance is greater then if he acted treasons murders c. And the losse of one soule by his seduction is a greater mischiefe then if he blew up Parliaments or cut the throats of Kings and Emperours c. And therefore a firme justice that requires an eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth life for life calleth also soule for soule But that no civill sword can inflict but the Lord
aske whether or no such as may hold forth other Worships or Religions Jewes Turkes Antichristians may not be peaceable and quiet Subjects loving and helpfull neighbours faire and just dealers c. It is cleare they may in all experience and yet in spirituall and Mysticall Account they are ravenous and greedy Wolves Defender It hath been declared above that we doe not hold it lawfull to constraine by Civill Sword Jewes or Turkes or Antichristians to be of our Religion whether they be good Subjects loving Neighbours faire dealers yea or no. Nor doth the Apostle in that Text which the Discusser hath in hand speake of men out of the Church Jewes Turkes or Antichristians but of such as enter into the Church and are of themselves Now if Church-members should Apostate from Christ and of Christians become Jewes and Turkes and Antichristians and draw away Disciples after them I would demand of any man whose Conscience is not past feeling of the danger of damnable Heresies whether such Members may goe for peaceable and quiet Subjects for loving and helpfull Neighbours for faire and just dealers for true and Loyall to the civill Government If those be peaceable and quiet Subjects that withdraw Subjects from Subjection to Christ if they be loving and helpfull Neighbours that help men on to perdition If they be faire and just dealers that wound the soules of the best and kill and destroy the soules of many if such be true and loyall to Civill Government that subject it to the Tyranny of a forraine Prelate then it will be no advantage to civill States when the Kingdomes of the Earth shall become the Kingdomes of our Lord and they may doe as good service to the civill State who bring the wrath of God upon them by their Apostacie as they that bring downe blessings from Heaven by the Profession and Practise of the true Religion in Purity Discusser I querie secondly to whom Paul gave this charge to watch against them ver 31. They were not the Magistrates of the City of Ephesus but the Elders of the Church of Ephesus Defender Who doubteth of it Discusser Many of these charges and Exhortations given by Christ to the Shepheards and Ministers of the Churches be commonly attributed and directed by the Answerer in this Discourse to the Civill Magistrate Defender Cujus contrarium verumest For looke the Answer through and you shall find not one of these charges or Exhortations given to Ministers were ever directed by the Answerer to civill Magistrates the falshood of the Discusser in this charge upon the Answerer is palpable and notorious And this exhortation in this place the Answerer doth not so much as mention at all either as directed to Magistrates or to Elders Discusser I desire it may be inquired into whether in all the will or Testament of Christ there be any such word of Christ by way of Command Promise or Example countenancing the Governours of the Givill State to meddle with these wolves if in civill things peaceable and obedient Defender This Condition if in civill things peaceable and obedient implyeth a contradiction to the nature and practice of wolves How can Wolves be peaceable and obedient unlesse they be restrained and how can they be restrained and not medled with What Peace said Jehu so long as the whoredomes of Jezabel and her witchcrafts are so many 2 Kings 9.22 Yes may not spirituall whoredomes and witch-crafts stand with Civill Peace No verily the whoredomes and witch-crafts of the Jezabel of Rome tooke away civill peace from the earth and brought in the Turks to oppresse the peace both of Christian Churces and Common-wealths as hath been shewed above Revel 9.15.21 That dreadfull example of Gods vengeance upon Civill States for tolerating and practising Image-worship is a serious and loud warning to all Christian States to beware of such seducing spirits as beare them in hand they shall have peace though they tolerate Idolatrous and false worships in their Territoryes Besides for another example and that approved you find in the Lords Testament Revel 16.4 5 6 7. of which before And for a word of command from Christ to meddle with wolves that grand charter whereby Magistrates are established in the new Testament may abundantly suffice The Magistrate is the Minister of God an avenger to execute wrath upon him that doth evill Rom. 14.4 If the wolfe be an evill doer let him looke at the Magistrate as appointed of God to be an avenger and executor of wrath upon him Say not yea if the wolfe be an evill doer against the second Table but not so if against the first Table or if an evill doer against the bodies and estates of men not so if against their soules For who gave any man commission so to limit the word of God or the power of the Magistrate Besides it hath been often said that he that goeth about to subvert Religion and to destroy soules is an evill doer against the peace of the Civill State Discusser If God had given charge to Magistrates to punish evill doers in matters of Religion he would have given to Magistrates in the world ability to discerne and determine who are sheep and who are wolvish oppressors whom he is bound to punish and suppresse Yea they must be able to discerne this not with others mens eyes but with their owne c. Defender It hath been declared above that Magistrates ought to be so well accquainted with matters of Religion as to discerne the Fundamentall Principels thereof and the evill of chose heresies and Blasphemies as doe subvert the same Their ignorance thereof is no discharge of their duty before the Lord. Such wolvish oppressors and Doctrines and practises as they cannot discerne with their own eyes It will be their sin either to suppresse them because they cannot doe it of faith or to tolerate them because they are destructive to the soules of the people and enemies to the common salvation Gallio is justly censured as a prophane man not because he refused to be a Judge in matters concerning the Jewish worship and Religion for he had noe Law of Caesar whose Deputy he was to judge of it but because he rejecteth the cognizance of such causes of Religion as a Question of words and Names Which made him so â—ame regardlesse of causes of Religion that though the Civill peace was broken by the Jewes in pursuite of Paul the Jewes laying violent hands upon Sasthenes and that before the judgement Seate yet Gallio cared for none of those things Acts 18 15.16.17 Discusser In the third place I Quere Whether the Father who gave the sheep and the Sonne who keepeth them be not greater then all And who can plucke the Elect out of his hand which Answereth the common objection of the danger of devouring soules Defender It doth not Answer that Objection For the Father and Sonne were greater then all in the old Testament as well as in the New And none could then pluck
observation how it pleaseth God to leave me to take up the Common Reproachfull Accusation of the Accuser of Gods Children That they are arrogant and impetuous Defender I did not thinke it needfull to declare what an Arrogant and Impetuous way was seeing his Request was not that I should compile a discourse of mine owne but that I should returne an Answer to the Letter of his friend And it is an Answerers part not to Expatiate into declarations but distinctly and closely to remove Objections Besides himselfe is not ignorant of this point nor needeth to be taught what an Arrogant and impetuous way is For he himselfe telleth us in his 8th Chapter That the Civill Peace may be broken by holding forth a Doctrine or practise with rayling or reviling daring or challenging speeches which is a way of Arrogancy or with force of Armes Swords Gunns c. which is a way of Impetuousnesse But if it be desired that I should declare my self herein thus breily take it He holdeth forth an erronious Doctrine or Practise in an Arrogant and Impetuous way not onely who carrieth it in a reviling and daring way which is a disturbance to Civill Peace But also he who refuseth to subject his spirit to the spirit of the Prophets in a holy Church of Christ contrary to 1 Cor. 14.32 which is a disturbance to the peace of the Church And withall he that shall oppose such as dissent from his Errors either by violent meanes as the Circumcellians did by Clubbs and Swords and as Zedekiah did Micajah with Fists 1 Kings 22.24 or by censorious reproaches and by rejecting Communion with them even before conviction or admonition all these are wayes of Arrogance and Imperuousnesse and tend to the disturbance either of civill or of Church Peace or of both But for the 2. His sad and sorrowfull Observation that God hath left me to take up the common reproachful Accusation of the Children of God as if they were Arrogant and Impetuous in their way upon what ground the Discusser taketh this up I confesse I cannot Imagine unlesse Conscius ipse sibi de se put at omnia dici There is not the least jot or tittle in my Letter that applyeth this Accusation of Arrogance or impetuousnesse to any of the Children of God at all Nor had I the least thought of himselfe when I wrote that Letter who for ought I can remember did then keepe communion with all his Brethren and held loving acquaintance with my selfe As for these six Cases he speaketh of or rather wayes wherein the Children of God have opposed the streame of the times and have there upon been taxed as Arrogant and impetuous Troublers of the State yet were none such I willingly allow them to stand good save onely they might as well be reduced to 2. or 3. Heads as branched out into 6. But howsoever they are nothing pertinent to the Point in hand none of them being wayes of Arrogancy nor Impetuousnesse but of well Ordered and Christian faithfulnesse and Magnanimity If any of them did put forth acts of Impetuous violence as Elijah did in putting the Prophets of Baall to death 1 King 18.40 It was done by vertue of an extraordinary calling or else by the consent of the King and people then present Besides as none of the fix wayes wherein the Messengers of God walked against the streame of the times were wayes of Arrogance and impetuousnesse so much lesse were these holy men of God Impetuous in holding forth any Error or evill practise which is the Point in hand CHAP. 8. Some what more of holding forth Error in a way of Arrogance and Impetuousnesse Discusser The Distinction now in Discussion concerneth not Truth and Error but the manner of holding forth or divulging Defender The distinction doth expresly speake of holding forth things Erroneous and unlawfull either in a meeke and peaceable way or with such Arrogance and Impetuousnesse as tendeth and reacheth even of it selfe to the disturbance of Civill Peace And therefore it cannot be said with truth that the distinction concerneth not Truth and Error The distinction expresly concerneth both the sinfull matter held forth things erroneous and unlawfull and the sinfull manner of holding them forth with such Arrogance and impetuousnesse as tendeth to the disturbance of Civill Peace Discusser I Acknowledge such may be the way and manner of holding forth either with railing or reviling daring or challenging speeches or with force of Armes Swords Gunns Prisons c. that it may not onely tend to breake but may actually breake the Civill Peace Defender Then the distinction is acknowledged to have a reall Truth in it what lacketh it yet but that it may stand Discusser Yet those instances to wit those 6. mentioned in Chap. 7. are Cases of great Opposition and Spirituall Hostility and Occasions of the breach of the Civill Peace yet the matter and manner pure holy peaceable and inoffensive Defender Then these six instances doe nothing concerne the distinction in hand which speaketh of holding forth for the matter things Erroneous and unlawfull and for the manner in a disturbant way to Civill Peace But it seemeth if something if any thing though nothing to purpose be said in the Discussion of a distinction it may goe for a Discussion Discusser Moreover I answer That it is possible and common for Persons of soft and gentle nature and spirits to hold out falshood with more seeming meeknesse and Peaceablenesse then the Lord Jesus or his servants did or doe hold forth the everlasting Gospel So that the Answerer would be requested to explaine what he meaneth by this Arrogant and Impetuous holding forth of any Doctrine which very manner of holding tendeth to break the Civill Peace and cometh under the Cognisance and Correction of the Civill Magistrate c. Discharge Himselfe hath said it and done it already in this Chapter and I have done the same somewhat more largely in the Chapter next foregoing CHAP. 9. A Reply to his ninth Chapter Touching the Causes of Civill Dissensions and uprores about Matters of Religion Discusser Whence then arise Civill Dissensions and uprores in matters of Religion I Answer 1. When a State liveth and lieth in the guilt of a false God false Christ false Worship then no wonder if soare eyes be troubled at the appearance of light whereas good eyes are not troubled at the Light Vigilant and watchfull Persons Loyall and Faithfull are not so troubled at the true no nor at a false Religion of Jew or Gentile Discharge This is as little to the purpose as that which went before The distinction spake of holding forth Erroneous and unlawful things in a way tending of it selfe to the disturbance of Civill Peace This Discussion holdeth forth another way tending to the disturbance of Civill Peace not of it selfe but by occasion or by Accident to wit when the holding forth of Light and Truth disturbeth the sore Eyes of a corrupt State If per
I have slaine them by the words of my mouth And thy Judgements were as the light that goeth forth Ans The Judgements of God whether of his mouth or of his hand doe both of them goe forth as light For when the Judgements of God are upon the earth and he speaketh of the judgments of his hands the Inhabitants of the world shall learne righteousnesse Isai 26.9 And that whereby we learne righteousnesse is light Besides when the Lord is said to have hewen and slaine his Apostate people by his Prophets and by the words of his mouth He doth not onely meane the spirituall hewing and slaying of their soules but also the temporall judgements Famine Warre and Pestilence which the Prophets threatned and the Hand of God and Hazael executed in the hewing and slaying of them CHAP. 10. A Reply to his tenth Chapter wherein he discusseth the last Distinction PErsecution for Conscience is either for conscience rightly informed or a blind and erroneous conscience Discusser Both these Consciences are indeed persecuted but lamentably blinde and erroneous will those consciences shortly appeare to be which out of zeale to God as is pretended have persecuted either c. Defender This whole Chapter may stand for us without Impeachment We approve no persecution for conscience neither conscience rightly informed for that we account the persecuting of Christ nor conscience misinformed with errour unlesse the errour be pernicious and unlesse the conscience be convinced of the errour and perniciousnesse thereof that so it may appeare the erroneous party suffereth not for his conscience but for his sinning against his conscience And though it be true there is a seared conscience in some to which God hath in his judgement given them up that they may never see light how cleare soever both in Scripture and nature and though this seared conscience doe not extenuate but aggravate sinne and though a man by this seared conscience may commit some notorious capitall crime as he that in Ireland burnt his owne sonne in the fire in the imitation of Abraham and called in his Neighbours to rejoyce in beholding the power of his faith and though such a man was justly put to death yet it may not be said he was punished for his conscience but for that unnaturall barbarous cruelty and murther which he committed and which his conscience could never have blinded him to commit out of any naturall humane ignorance or infirmity but out of poenall and judiciall blindenesse which God never leaveth men unto but upon habituall and customary sinning against light of conscience CHAP. 11. A Reply to his eleventh Chapter touching Persecution for Conscience rightly informed Discusser AFter explication of the Point in these former Distinctions the Answerer of the Letter giveth his Resolution to the Question in foure particulars 1. It is not lawfull to persecute any for Conscience sake rightly informed for in persecuting such Christ himselfe is persecuted Acts 9.4 A man may as soone finde darkenesse in the bright Beames of the Sunne as in this cleare Beame of Truth that Christ Jesus in his Truth must not be persecuted Yet this I must aske for it will be admired by all sober men what should be the Cause or Inducement to the answerers minde to lay downe such a Position or Thesis as this is It is not lawfull to persecute the Lord Jesus Search all Scriptures Histories Records Monuments consult with all experiences Did ever Pharaoh Saul Ahab Jezebel Scribes and Pharisees the Jewes Herod the bloudy Neroes Gardiners Bonner Pope or Devill himselfe professe to persecute the Sonne of God Jesus as Jesus Christ as Christ without Maske or Covering Defender It may seeme though the Truth be as cleare as the Beames of the Sunne yet the Discusser can espie a moate of admirable weakenesse in the delivering of such a Position though never so true or cleare But let him cease his Admiration unlesse it be to admire his owne Fancy For I doe not lay it downe as a Position that it is not lawfull to persecute the Lord Jesus or that Christ in his Truth must not be persecuted But my Position was It is not lawfull to persecute any for Conscience sake rightly informed And for a reason hereof I give this Principle for in persecuting such Christ is persecuted Is it now become an admirable strange thing to give a Principle of Religion not for a Position and yet if it were so what strange thing were it but for the proofe of a Position Let me give you a like instance Gamaliel layeth it downe for a Position that the Doctrine of the Apostles if it be of God the Priests and Elders cannot overthrow it and he gives this principle for a reason of it lest in so doing ye be found saith he to fight against God Acts 5.38 39. Now is this such a matter as will be admired of all sober men that so wise a man as Gamaliel should lay downe this as a Position That men should not be found fighters against God May not a man rather admire and adore the strange hand of God that shall leave a man soberly to admire at such a thing and to thinke all sober men will in like sort wonder at the same But the truth is Neither Gamaliel nor my selfe laid downe that Principle for a Conclusion nor for a Position nor if we had had we done any thing for sober men to admire at 2. Though it were true which the Discusser makes the Ground of his Admiration That no Pharaoh or Herod or Nero did ever professe to persecute the Sonne of God Christ as Christ c. yet it will not make it an admirable Point that Christ as Christ is not to be persecuted For though they doe not professe to persecute Christ as Christ yet they doe it And it is no admirable matter for all sober men to admire at to tell men that perfecute the Lord Jesus That it is not lawfull for them so to doe Did not Christ himselfe the wisedome of the Father tell Saul as much Acts 9.5 3. It is as cleare to use his phrase as the Sunne beames both in Scripture and other histories and frequent experience That Tyrants and Apostates have often persecuted Jesus as Jesus Christ as Christ The Scribes and Pharisees they knew that Christ was the Sonne of God the Lord and Heire of the Church And therefore they said among themselves This is the Heire come let us kill him Matth. 21.38 Nor could they be said in persecuting Christ to have sinned against the Holy Ghost if they had not beene enlightened to know him who he was and yet leavened with such malice as to persecute him as they did Histories tell us that Julian the Apostate persecuted Jesus as Jesus and Christ as Christ yea and professed so to doe And experience telleth That if a Christian shall in Turkey seeke to gaine Turkes from the service of Mahomet to the Faith of Jesus they will persecute such a Christian
to death and in him Jesus as Jesus 4. Let Tyrants and Persecutours professe what they will that they doe not persecute Jesus as Jesus but under some other pretence yet that varieth not the Truth nor impeacheth the wisedome of this Position That it is not lawfull to persecute any for Conscience rightly informed or to persecute any for professing the Truth of Christ Discusser One thing I see apparently in the Lords overruling of the pen of this Answerer viz. a secret whispering from Heaven to him That yet he hath never left the Tents of such who thinke they doe God good service in killing the Lord Jesus in his servants and yet say if we had been in the dayes of our Fathers in Queen Maryes dayes we would never have consented to such Persecution c. Defender Verily this is a strange sight indeed and which all sober minds may well wonder at to see apparently That he who layeth downe this for a Position That it is not lawfull to persecute any for Conscience rightly informed hath had a secret whispering from Heaven that himselfe never yet left the Tents of Persecutors Surely it must needs be a strange and strong sight even the fight of such as make themselves equall with God that can see a man hath not left the Tents of Persecutors that is the Communion with Persecutors when he openly professeth it to be utterly unlawfull to Persecute any for the Truths sake It is true God may see that in a mans heart which is contrary to the Profession of his mouth and Pen. And so may this Discusser see as much if he be equall with God But yet herein I dare be bold to say he exalteth himselfe not onely equall with God but above God to see one contradictory in another which God himselfe cannot see It is contradictory to Persecution to beleive it unlawfull to persecute any for the Truths sake He then that can see yea see apparently that out of the Faith Profession of this truth that it is unlawfull to persecute any for the Truth he that can see I say fellowship with persecution in the faith or Profession of the unlawfulnes of Persecution verily he can see darknesse in light evill in good Falshood in Truth which God himselfe Such is the perfection of his Truth cannot doe Discusser Let me also add a second So farre as the Answerer by Preaching for Persecution hath been a guide to others in persecuting any of the Servants of Christ witnessing to his Truth so farre his own mouth and hands shall judge I hope not his person but his actions that the Lord Jesus hath suffered by him Defender If any Doctrine Preached by me have Guided any to persecute any of the Servants of Christ for witnessing to any Truth of Christ then I confesse I must lay my hand upon my mouth and acknowledge that the Lord Jesus hath suffered by me But if the Disousser can never be able to produce any such Doctrine broached by me that hath guided any to persecute any of Gods Servants for witnessing to any Truth of his as I trust in the grace of Christ he shall never be able then the Discusser may know and the Lord help his spirit to know it that his own mouth and hands shal one day judge if not his person yet his actions that the Lord Jesus hath suffered in his poore Servants even bitter persecutions by his unjust slanders CHAP. 12. A Reply to his twelueth Chapter Entring upon the Discussion of the unlawfulnes to Persecute an Erroneous and blinde Conscience Discusser The second Conclusion lay'd downe by the Answerer is It is not lawfull to persecute an Erroneous and blinde Conscience Even in Fundamentall and weighty Points till after Admonition once or twice Tit. 3.10 11. And then such Consciences may be persecuted because the Word of God is so cleare in Fundamentall and weighty Points that such a person cannot but sinne against his Conscience and so being condemned of himselfe that is of his Conscience he may be persecuted for sinning against his own Conscience Defender They are the words of the Discusser not mine That such as erre in Fundamentall and weighty Points after once or twice Admonition such Consciences are then to be persecuted No my words will cleare themselves if they be truly related even as himselfe hath printed them Thus they stand Secondly For an erroneous and blinde Conscience even in Fundamentall and weighty Points It is not lawfull to persecute any till after Admonition once or twice And so the Apostle directeth Tit. 3.10 and giveth the reason That in Fundamentall principall Points of Doctrine and worship The Word of God in such things is so cleare that he cannot but be convinced in conscience of the dangerous Error of his way after once or twice Admonition wisely and faithfully dispenced And then if any one persist It is not out of Conscience but against his Conscience as the Apostle saith ver 11. He is subverted and sinneth being condemned of himselfe that is of his owne Conscience so that if such a man after such Admonition shall still persist in the Error of his way and be therefore punished He is not persecuted for cause of Conscience but for sinning against his Conscience Where though I say That it is not lawfull to persecute any though erring in Fundamental and weighty Points till after once or twice admonition I doe not therefore say as the Discusser reporteth me that after once or twice admonition then such Consciences may be persecuted But that if such a man after such Admonition shall still persist in the Error of his way and be therefore punished He is not persecuted for cause of Conscience but for sinning against his own Conscience Object But he that sayeth It is not lawfull to persecute any Heretick till after once or twice admonition He doth as much as say that after once or twice admonition It is then lawfull to persecute any Heretick Ans Not so neither neither every Heretick nor in every Court Not in every Court or Judicature But the same Church that followed an Heretick with once or twice admonition was further to pursue him if he remaine obstinate with excommunication my words doe expresse two things 1. That an Heretick till after once or twice admonition may not be pursued no not with the Church-censure of Excommunication but after once or twice admonition It was then lawfull for the Church to proceed to his Excommunication 2. My words hold forth this also That if such an Heretick so convinced and admonished be afterwards punished by any Censure whether of Church or Court It cannot be said he is punished for his Conscience but for sinning against his Conscience But it was no part of my words or meaning to say that every Heretick though erring in some Fundamentall and weighty Points and for the same excommunicated shall forth with be punished by the Civill Magistrate unlesse it doe afterwards appeare that he
that they will doe it without some excitement from the Angells no more then the Angells powred out their vialls till they were stirred up by a great voice out of the Temple Revelations 16.1 It is an evasion as groundlesse as the former that Elijahs stirring up of Ahab to kill all the Preists and Prophets of Baal was figurative For all Figures in the old Testament have their Accomplishment â—n the New Now evident it is Ahab an Apostate Idolater was no Type of Christ nor was Israel after their Apostacy a Type of the true Church of Christ A Tabernacle it was but not a Tabernacle of Christ Aholah but not Aholibah To make this act in Israel a Type of Christs act in Christian State or Church is to make darknesse a type of light Ceremoniall Lawes were generally Typicall not so Moses his Judicialls especially those which had in them morall equity It is Morall equity That Blasphemers and Apostate Idolaters seducing others to Idolatry should be put to death Levit. 24.16 Deut. 13.5 Ahab forfited his owne life because he did not put Benhadad to death for his blasphemy 1 Kings 20.23 28. and ver 42. yet Benhadad was no Israelite nor was his blasphemy bleched out in the Land of Israel but the externall equity of that Judiciall Law of Moses was of morall force and bindeth all Princes to expresse that zeale and indignation both against blasphemy in such as fall under their just power which Ahab neglected and against seduction to Idolatry which Ahab executed or else Elijah or some others by his consent But before I leave this dispute touching the meaning of those words Let them alone let me add another Interpretation which I see doth rather more satisfie others and it may wel stand Let them alone is not a word of precept by way of Ordinance But a word of permission by way of Providence God in his Providence will permit some or other Tares ever to be found in his Church to the last Judgement Which yet he would not have his servants offended at For them he will pluck up by his Angells at the last Harvest CHAP. 28. A Reply to his 28th Chapter VVhich is a Recaptulation of what Points the Discusser supposeth He hath proved in opening this Parable Defender The Discusser in this Chapter is onely a Rehearser of what he conceiveth himselfe to have evidently demonstrated to the Conscience from Chap. eighteene to this Chapter twentieight Five Points Negatively and Five Points Affirmatively But because what he rehearseth hath been reversed in the Reply to those severall Chapters I will not Actum Agere nor Dictum dicere CHAP. 29. A Reply to his twentininth Chapter Discussing the Text in Matth. 15.14 Letter The second Scripture brought against such Persecution for Cause of Conscience is Matth 15.14 where the Disciples being troubled at the Pharises cariage towards the Lord Jesus and his Doctrine and relating how they were offended at him The Lord Jesus commaundeth his Disciples to Let them alone and giveth this Reason that the blinde lead the blinde and both should fall into the ditch Answ of the Letter Christ speaketh not there to publick Officers whether in Church or Common-wealth but to his private Disciples concerning the Pharises over whom they had no power And the command he giveth to Let them alone is spoken in regard of troubling themselves or regarding the offence which they tooke at the wholesome Doctrine of the Gospel As who should say Though they be offended at this wholesome saying of mine yet doe not you feare their feare nor be troubled at their offence which they take at my Doctrine not out of sound Judgement but out of blindnesse But this maketh nothing to the cause in hand Discusser To passe by this Assertion of the privacy of the Apostles in that the Lord Jesus commanded to Let them alone that is not onely to be offended themselves but not to meddle with them It appeareth it was no Ordinance of God nor of Christ for his Disciples to have gone further and have complained to and excited the Civill Magistrate to his duty Which if it had been an Ordinance of God and Christ either for the vindicating of Christs Doctrine or the recovering of the Pharises or the preserving of others from infection the Lord Jesus would never have commanded them to omitt that which should have tended to these holy ends Defender Reply 1. To passe by the Assertion of the Privacy of the Apostles It is not an Act of courtesie and loathnesse to strive but out of defect of just pretence to make any colourable exception against it For though the Apostles were called to a publique Ministery Math. 10. yet it seemeth not as then to a constant office but to a transient Administration pro illa vice for that time Their constant calling required to attend continually upon Christs Ministry to prepare and ripen them for the publique constant office which they were to be called to after Christs Resurrection Acts 1.21 22. Besides in that transient Administration they were not sent to the Scribes and Pharises who were no bitter then Wolves and Foxes but to the lost sheepe of the House of Israel Matth. 10.6 And therefore the Apostles not being sent to the Scribes and Pharises they had no power over them but stood as private men to them Reply 2. And as they had no calling nor power to correct or censure them themselves so neither had they a calling to excite the civill Magistrate against them For first it was no just cause for the civill Magistrate to punish the Pharises for that they tooke unjust offence against Christs wholesome doctrine For neither was the doctrine it selfe a fundamentall truth nor was their offence against it a fundamentall errour though it was dangerous Besides the civill Magistrates had no Law established about doctrines or offences of that nature And therefore they could take no judiciall cognizance of any complaint presented to them about the same Moreover our Saviour who sent forth his Apostles to preach to the lost sheepe of the house of Israel gave them a charge of caution to beware how they medled with Scribes and Pharises Behold saith he I send you forth as sheepe among wolves Be ye therefore wise as serpents innocent as doves Beware of men c. Mat. 10.16 17. The Apostles therefore having received this caution could not meddle with the Scribes and Pharises but trespasse against this rule of serpentine prudence as much as for a flocke of lambes to complaine to a kennell of wolves of the wolves out-rage Yea Christ himselfe was sparing to reprove them himselfe though called to a publicke Ministery till the last yeare of his Ministery when his houre was comming of departure out of the world as knowing they would not be able to beare it and their exasperation might have been some hinderance to the free passage of his Ministery before his houre was come CHAP. 30. A Reply to his Chap. 30.
to become Church-members yet Ahab though King over an Apostate Church having gotten Pagan Benhadad by conquest under his Dominion because he put him not to death for his blasphemy forfeited his owne life for his 1 Kings 20.23 with 42. CHAP. 36 A Reply to his Chapter 36. Discussing the Text in Luke 9.54 55. Discusser THe next Scripture brought by the Letter against such Persecution is Luke 9.54 55. where the Lord Jesus reproved his Disciples who would have fire come downe from Heaven to have devoured those Samaritans that would not receive him in these words You know not of what spirit you are the Sonne of man is not come to destroy mens lives but to save them With this Scripture Mr. Cotton joyneth the next and answereth both in one which is this 2 Tim. 2.24 The servant of the Lord must not strive but must be gentle towards all men proving if at any time God will give them Repentance c. unto both these Scriptures he giveth this Answer Both these are directions to Ministers of the Gospel how to deale not with obstinate offenders in the Church but either with men without as the Samaritans were and many unconverted Christians in Creete whom Titus as an Evangelist was to seeke to convert Or at best with some Jewes or Gentiles in the Church who though carnall yet were not convinced of the Errours of their way And it is true it became not the Spirit of the Gospel to convert Aliens to the Faith Such as the Samaritans were by Fire and Brimstone nor to deale harshly in publick Ministry or private conference with all such severall-minded men as either had not yet entred into Church-fellowship or if they had did hitherto sinne of Ignorance not against Conscience But neither of both these Texts doe hinder a Minister of the Gospel to proceed in a Church way against Church-members when they become scandalous either in life or Doctrine much lesse doe they speake at all to the Civill Magistrate Defender The matter of this Answer it is likely enough was given by me for it suiteth with mine owne apprehensions both then and now But some expressions in laying it downe I doe not owne nor can I finde any Copie under my owne hand-writing that might testifie how I did expresse my selfe especially in a word or two wherein the Discusser observeth in chap. 38. some haste and light and sleepy attention But if the Discusser can shew the same under mine owne hand as it is not impossible I shall be willing by Gods help both to acknowledge it and my haste in it CHAP. 37. A Reply to his Chap. 37. Discusser THis perplexed and ravelled Answer wherein so many things and so doubtfull are wrapped up and entangled together I shall take in pieces 1. That the Lord Jesus in rebuking his Disciples rash and bloudy zeale against the Samaritans did not hereby hinder the Ministers of the Gospel to proceed in a Church-way against scandalous offenders is not here questioned Defender Well then this Point is none of those many doubtfull things here wrapped much lesse is it perplexed or ravelled but a plaine and confessed Truth But whether the Author of that Letter sent to me did take it for a certaine and unquestioned Truth I did not know nor doe I yet know unlesse the Discusser speake his mind herein as well as his owne Sure I am Prosecution in a Church-way if the cause be not just is as odious and dreadfull a Persecution as Prosecution in a Court of civill Justice as hath been proved above Discusser Secondly when the Answerer saith much lesse doth this Text speake at all to the civill Magistrate here I observe that he implyeth that beside the censure of the Lord Jesus in the hands of his spirituall Governours for any spirituall evill in Life or Doctrine the civill Magistrate is also to inflict corporall punishment Defender This observation I may truly say is ravelled out of my Answer and that so perplexedly that it cannot be wound up out of my Answer without breaking the threed both of my words and meaning It is a plaine and certaine Truth that as the Disciples were not civill Magistrates so neither doth Christ speake to them in this Reproofe as to such But it is farre from me to say that it is lawfull for civill Magistrates to inflict corporall punishment upon men contrary minded standing in the same state the Samaritans did No such thought arose in my heart nor fell from my pen either in my Answer to the Letter or in any writing of mine that it is lawfull for a Civill Magistrate though he had dominion over Pagans much lesse if he have none to inflict corporall punishments upon such as are contrary minded in matters of Religion No these are ravellings of a loose and ungirt disputer not the Inferences of a serious and solid Discusser And therefore the Reasons which he bringeth in the Sequele of this chapter that the Magistrates should not lay violent hands upon any such as the Samaritanes for not receiving of the Lord Jesus might well have been spared for they fight not against me but against a shadow of his owne fancy But when he maketh the Fire that fell downe from Heaven Rev. 13.13 to be the fiery Judgements and persecutions which the second Beast perswaded the civill Powers to destroy the Saints withall as if they were Gods just Judgements from Heaven upon Hereticks This is such an Interpretation as ravelleth the Text and will not stand with the Context For the Text speaketh of it as a great wonder that the Beast should make Fire to come downe from Heaven upon Earth in the sight of men ver 13. But this was no wonder to cause civill Powers to inflict fiery Judgements of Imprisonment Banishment Death upon Hereticks for Constantine had done as much before And the Arrian Bishops had caused Constantius to doe as much against the Orthodox Saints Besides in the Context ver 15. It is expressely there declared as a distinct matter from the former that he had Power to cause that as many as would not worship the Image of the Beast should he killed This is a different effect and recorded as different from the former of causing fire to come downe from Heaven and that not upon the Saints but upon Earth CHAP. 38. A Reply to his Chap. 38. Discussing the place in Timothy 2 Tim. 2.25 26. Discusser I Acknowledge this Instruction to be meeke and patient to all men c. is properly an Instruction to the Ministers of the Gospel Defender Then hitherto the Answer is not perplexed and ravelled Discusser Yet divers Arguments will from hence be truly and fairely collected to manifest and evince how farre the civill Magistrate ought to be from dealing with the civill Sword in spirituall cases But first by the way I desire to aske what the Answerer meaneth by his unconverted Christian in Creete An unconverted Christian is as much as an unconverted Convert untamed
had been then but on his way to Ephesus which is a narrow point of time it is more then propable if Timothy had been then at Ephesus he would have said Tychicus have I sent to thee to Ephesus CHAP. 39. A Reply to his 39. Chap. Discusser BVt from this place in Timothy 2 Tim. 2.25 in particular I argue thus 1. If the Civill Magistrates be Christians or Members of the Church able to prophesie to the Church of Christ then they are bound by this command of Christ to suffer opposition to their Doctrine with meeknesse and gentlenesse waiting if God peradventure will give them Repentance So also it pleaseth the Answerer to acknowledge in these words It becometh not the spirit of the Gospel to convert Aliens to the Faith such as the Samaritans and unconverted persons whether in Ephesus or Creete with Fire and Sword Defender The Answerer is still of the same mind though he might strike in upon the advantage that if the Magistrate be also a Prophet he may doe some things as a Magistrate which he may not doe as a Prophet yet he willingly acknowledgeth that if a Magistrate be also a Prophet yea whether he be a Prophet or no he ought not to seeke to subdue and convert Aliens to the Faith by Fire and Sword Discusser Secondly if the Oppositions be within and the Church-members become scandalous in Doctrine I speake not of scandalls in the Civill State which the civill Magistrate ought to punish It is the Lord onely as the Scripture in Timothy implyeth who is able to give them Repentance and to recover them out of Satans snare c. It is true the civill Sword may make a whole Nation of Hypocrites as the Lord complaineth Isay 10. and as befell our Native Country in a few scores of yeares in the severall Reignes of Henry 7. Henry 8. King Edward Queen Mary Queene Elizabeth under whom our Nation was as ready to change the fashion of their Religions as of their Suits of Apparell which hath been their sinfull shame Defender If Opposition rise from within from the Members of the Church I doe not beleive it to be lawfull for the Magistrate to seeke to subdue and convert them to be of his mind by the civill Sword But rather to use all spirituall meanes for their conviction and conversion But if the Opposition still continue in Doctrine and Worship and that against the vitals and Fundamentalls of Religion whether by Heresie of Doctrine or Idolatry in Worship and shall proceed to seeke the Seduction of others I doe beleive the Magistrate is not to tolerate such opposion against the Truth in Church-members or in any Professours of the Truth after due conviction from the word of Truth Nor is it an Objection of any weight that neither the Magistrate nor his Sword can give Repentance unto such For neither can he give Repentance unto such persons as are scandalous to the civill State whom yet notwithstanding the Discusser himselfe acknowledgeth the civill Magistrate ought to punish Though the civill Sword should not make the opposers Hypocrites yet better tolerate Hypocrites and Tares then Bryars and Thornes In such cases the civill Sword doth not so much attend the conversion of wicked Seducers as the prevention of the seduction of honest minds by their meanes What the Kings and Queens of England have done in former or later times either by violent Persecution of the Truth or in preposterous maintenance of the Truth we have cause rather to bewaile it and so hath the Discusser too if he be an English man then to justifie it as also bewaile the like vanity justly complained of in sundry of our English Nation to be as ready to change the fashion of their Religion as of their Rayment And yet he cannot be ignorant that the Lord hath chosen to himselfe sundry faithfull witnesses out of that Nation who have continued stedfast unto the death in the Profession of the Truth and have not been carried away either with the feare of civill Sword or with the deceitfull insinuations of unstable but seducing Teachers to depart from the simplicity and Truth of the Gospel But howsoever wofull and wonderfull changes have been made of Religion in England in the Reigne of foure or five Princes yet it is no more then befell the Church of Judah in the dayes of Ahaz and Hezekiah Manasseh and Josiah yet the Prophets never upbraided them with the civill Magistrater Power in causes of Religion as the cause of it Better some vicissitudes in Religion then a constant continuance in Idolatry and Popery by Princes referring all causes of Religion to Church-men The Prophecie of Englands Revolt againe to Popery wanteth Scripture Light CHAP. 40. A Reply to his Chap. 40. Discusser BVt it hath been thought and said shall Oppositions against the Truth escape unpunished will they not prove mischievous I answer as before concerning the blind Guides their case being incurable is rather to be lamented since none but the right hand of the Lord in the meeke and gentle Dispensing of the word of Truth can release them c. Defender So it is with all scandalous offenders against the civil State none can give them healing Repentance but the right hand of the Lord Jesus in the dispensing of the word of Truth yet that doth not restraine Magistrates from executing just Judgement upon them So neither doth it restraine them from executing the like just Judgement against these though not to procure the Repentance of incurable obstinate Hereticks and Idolaters yet to prevent the seduction and subversion of others What though a dead soule though changed from one Worship to another like a dead man shifted into severall suites of Apparell cannot please God Heb. 11.6 And what though Faith be that gift which proceedeth alone from that Father of Lights Phil. 1.29 Yet better a dead soule be dead in body as well as in Spirit then to live and be lively in the flesh to murder many precious soules by the Magistrates Indulgence And better he die without Faith then to live to seduce many honest minds to depart from the Faith Discusser I adde a civill Sword hardneth the followers of false Teachers by the sufferings of their false and Antichristian Seducers And secondly it begetteth in them an Impression of the falshood of that Religion which cannot uphold it selfe but with such Instruments of violence and wanteth the soft and gentle commiseration of the blindnesse of others Defender A civill Magistrate ought not to draw out his civill Sword against any Seducers Whether Hereticks or Idolaters till he have used all good meanes for their conviction and thereby clearely manifested the bowels of tender commiseration and compassion towards them But if after their continuance in obstinate Rebellion against the Light he shall still walke towards them in soft and gentle commiseration his softnesse and gentlenesse is excessive large to Foxes and wolves But his bowels are miserably straitned and hardned
dispencing and pressing of spirituall matters for the immediate producing of spirituall ends as for a Magistrate to draw his sword to compell all his Subjects to the obedience of the faith if Christ and to the profession of it But this is not unfitting nor improper That a Magistrate should draw his sword though not in matters spirituall yet about matters spiritual to protect them in peace and to stave off the disturbers and destroyers of them It were improper and unfitting for carpenters to bring their Axes and Hammers to build up the spirituall Kingdome and Church of Christ But yet their tooles are fitting to build up scaffolds that the people may draw neere to heare the Word by hearing be brought on to faith and salvation CHAP. 45. A Reply to his 45. Chap. Discusser TO Batter and take a strong Hold or Fort men bring not a first and second Admonition and after obstinacy Excommunication But they bring Canons Culverings Sakers Bullets Powder Musquets Swords Pikes weapons suitable and proportionable On the other side to batter downe Idolatry false worship Heresy out of the soule and spirit It is vaine Improper unsuitable to bring the usuall weapons of persecutors Stocks Whips Prisons Swords Gibbtts Stakes But against these spirituall sirong holds in the soules of men spirituall Artillery and weapons are proper and mighty through God to subdue every thought to obedience Defender Let this stand as it shall for me It nothing toucheth the Question in hand It is farre from me to allow the Civill Magistrate to make use of his Civill weapons to batter downe Idolatry and Heresy in the soules of men but for this end he is to use spirituall weapons and all Lenity and wisdome in the improvement thereof But if the Idolater or Heretick grow obstinate as the Apostle saith waxe worse and worse deceiving himselfe and others to the destroying or corrupting and disturbing of others now the Magistrate maketh use not of Stocks and Whipps for these doe not remove but exasperate the malady but of Death or Banishment that may cut him off from opportunity of spreading the leaven and Gangerne of his pernicious wayes whether in Doctrine or practise It is one thing to speake oâ— Heresie and Idolatry in the Abstract another in the Concrete Heresie Idolatry and all spirituall wickednesse cannot be rooted out of the hearts of the sonnes of men but by spirituall weapons But Hereticks and Idolaters may be restrained from the open practise and profession of their wickednesse by the Sword of Justice and such weapons of Righteousnesse Discusser But though these weapons were proper yet they are unnecessary For if spirituall weapons in the hand of Church Officers be able mighty and sufficient and ready for the Lords worke either to save or to kill the soule c. How doth the Magistrate come in to help but as if the Lord had no power Defender This is a meere pretence in the mouth pen of the Discusser For he having cut off all the Churches of Christ and all Church Ordinances and Church-weapons from off the face of the earth for these many ages past and I know not for how many yeares yet to come If Civill weapons be debarred from defending Religion upon pretence that Church-weapons are sufficient and and then no Churches nor Church weapons to be found upon the face of the earth then let all Seducers to Apostacy Idolaters Hereticks let them all rejoyce in an open doote of liberty safety which the Discusser hath set wide open before them If Civill States must not and Churches cannot come in to helpe the Lord shall the curse of Meroz be so avoided because the Lord wanteth not power to help himselfe But I might reply further that though spiritual weapons are mighty through God and sufficient to those ends for which the Lord appointed them which are to purge out leaven from their holy communion and to mortify the flesh of offendors yet that is not supersedeas to Civill Magistrates to neglect to punish those sins which the Church hath censured if the persons censured do proceed to subvert the truth of the Gospel or the peace of the Church or the salvation of the people The rest of the Discussers discourse in this chapter are as Jude speaketh clouds without water words without matter CHAP. 46. A Reply to his Chap. 46. Discussing Rom. 13. Discusser This Scripture Rom. 13. which it pleaseth the Answerer to quote how hath both himselfe and many excellent servants of God wrested not as Peter writeth of the wicked to their eternall yet to their owne and others tempor all destruction by civill warres and combustions in the world Defender This charge is a greivous crime if it be truly proved a greivous slaunder if it be not proved The rest of the Chapter proveth it not but that onely which I willingly graunt that this 13th Chapter to the Romans exhorteth unto subjection to Magistrates unto love to all men which are duties partaining to the second Table Howbeit though subjection to Magistrates and love to all men be duties which concerne the second Table a point which needed no proofe yet this inference will not here follow That therefore Magistrates have nothing to doe to punish any violation no not of the weightiest duties of the first Table It is a cleare case amongst the duties of the second Table people may be exhorted to honor their Ministers and children may be exhorted to honor their Parents But will it thence follow that therefore Ministers have nothing to doe with matters of Religion in the Church or parents in the Family CHAP. 47. A Reply to his Chap. 47. Discusser THere be excellent and precious servants of God in their time who have absolutely denyed the 13. of the Rom. to concerne any matter of the first Table Defender I will not stand upon the last use in that Chapter put you on the Lord Jesus Christ which I hope the Discusser himselfe will not deny much lesse say that any Excellent and precious servants of God doe absolutely deny that such a Duty concerneth the first Table But what is it that the servants of God say Discusser Calvin saith this whole Discourse concerneth Civill Magistrates and therefore in vaine doe they who exereise Power over Consciences goe about from this place to establish their sacrilegious Tyranny Defender Calvins Judgement herein as generally in other points is sound and agreeable to the Text but not at all favouring the Discussers Imagination This whole Disputation saith he is of Civill Governments whereupon this inference is according to his owne true meaning and scope therefore it doth nor concerne Church-Government Therefore such Church-Governours as upon pretence of this Text doe make Lawes without the word and besides the word to bind Conscience and to usurp power over Consciences they in vaine goe about to establish their sacrilegious Tyranny from this place But what is this to the point in hand Church-Governours
Religion may not be propagated by the civill Sword Vnto which I Reply what meaneth then this passage in his first Answer to the former speeches of the Kings viz. We acknowledge that none is to be constrained to believe or professe the true Religion till he be convinced in Judgement of the Truth of it Defender If it be observed my Agreement with Hilary then let it be observed that the Discusser in whetting the words of the Authors of the Letter against us layeth a false charge upon us as if we maintained such persecution for cause of Conscience as is condemned by the Ancient Writers Of whom Hilary is named for one and for the first and yet in the Discussion it is found that we agree with him In that Answer to the speeches of the Kings when I acknowledged that none was to be constrained to beleive or professe the true Religion till he be convinced of the Truth of it I did not meane that after he was convinced he might then be constrained with civill censfures for neither beleiving nor professing to beleive is to be constrained with civill censures But yet thus farre he may be constrained by withholding such countenance and favour from him such encouragement and employment from him as a wise and discerning Prince would otherwise grant to such as beleive the Truth and professe it so far as they are convinced of it in Judgement and Conscience For such as will not walke according to their Light are neither trusty servants to God nor man Discusser That Answer to the speech of the Kings implyeth two things 1. That the civill Magistrate who is to constraine must judge of all the Consciences of their Subjects whether they be convinced or no. 2. That when the civill Magistrate discerneth that his Subjects Consciences are convinced then he may constraine them vi armis hostilely And accordingly who knoweth not what constraint lyeth upon all Consciences in Old and New-England to come to Church and to pay Church-Duties which is upon the point though with a Sword of a finer gilt and trim in New-England nothing else but that which he confesseth Hilary saith should not be done to wit a Propagation of Religion by the Sword Defender Neither of both these things are implyed in that Answer Not the first that the civill Magistrate must then Judge of all of the Consciences of their Subjects whether they be convinced or no For it implyeth no more then that he is not to constraine them till he see they be convinced If he never see them convinced he is to see they be never constrained But how far the Magistrate may discerne and judge in matters of Religion hath been spoken above Nor the second For the constraint I spake of was not by positive meanes vi Armis but negative withholding such trust and employment from such as he seeth are not faithfull and trusty to their God of whose Truth they are convinced and yet withhold it in unrighteousnesse I know no constraint at all that lieth upon the consciences of any in New-England to come to Church neither doe I know that any scruple lyeth upon any Conscience in New-England that withholdeth any from hearing the word amongst us But least of all doe I know that any are constrayned to pay Church-duties in New-EnglaÌ„d Sure I am none in our own Town neither Church-members nor other are constrained to pay any Church-duties at all What they pay they give voluntarily each one with his owne hand without any constraint at all but their owne will as the Lord directs them Discusser Againe although he confesseth that Propagation of Religion ought not to be by the Sword yet he maintaineth the use of the Sword when persons in the Judgment of the Civill State for that is implyed shall blaspheme the true God and the true Religion and also seduce others to damnable Heresie and Idolatry Defender True but this is not the Propagation of Religion but the preservation of it or if it doe conduce to Propagation it is onely removendo probibens CHAP. 67. A Reply to his Chap. 70. Discussing the Testimony of Tertullian Discusser TO Tertullian the Answerer giveth the like Answer Tertullians Intent saith he is onely to restraine Scapula the Romane Governour of Africa from persecuting the Christians for not offering Sacrifice to their Heathen Gods and for that end fetcheth an Argument from the Law of Naturall Equity not to compell any to any Religion but to permit them to beleive or not to beleive at all Which we acknowledge we judge the English may permit the Indians to continue in their unbeliefe Neverthelesse it will not therefore be lawfull to tolerate the publick worship of Devils or Idols in a Christian State or the seduction of any from the Truth In this passage he agreeth with Tertullian but it is well known that in New-England they not onely permit the Indians to continue in their unbeleife which they cannot help but they also permit or tolerate them in their Paganish worship which cannot be denyed to be a worshipping of Devils And therefore consequently according to the same practise did they walke by Rule and impartially not onâ—â— the Indians but their Countrymen French Dutch Spanish Per … Turkes Jewes should also be permitted in their Worships if correspondent in civill obedience Defender It is not true that the New-English doe tolerate the Indians who have submitted to the English protection and Government in their worship of Devils openly What the Indians doe that are not under the English Government the English have no warrant from God or Law of Nations to restraine them nor is it in the power of the English to restraine the private Worship which some of the Indians under the English Government may possibly adhere unto the this day What courses have been used to bring them on to Civility and to the knowledge of our Religion by faire meanes are not pertinent to the present controversie to relate It hath been an Article of the Covenant between such Indians as have submitted to our Government that they shall submit to the ten Commandements which they thought reasonable Some of their Sachims young children are brought up with us and trained up to knowledge Such of them as come to our Houses are fed with curtesie and care taken often to instruct them as farre yea further then they are greatly willing to heare Some of them of late frequent our markets to get mony by selling Fish Baskets whortleberries Cramberries which taketh them off from some idlenesse Some English are studious of the Indian Language to deale with them in their owne Tongue Of late some of our Ministers have preached to a Congregation of them whil'st others at first interpreted what was preached but since one of our Ministers preacheth to them in their owne Language The other day whil'st I was at the Colledge with other Elders an Indian from Plimmouth side an hopefull youth was received into some employment in
words accordingly so much false dealing For 1. Admonition is one thing Conviction in their owne Conscience is another For though Admonition ought not to be dispensed till after conviction yet it may fall out that the Church through mistake proceedeth to Admonition before the Offender be convinced in his own Conscience of the sinfulnesse of his way 2. He carrieth my words as if they who yeeld not to once or twice Admonition must needs be esteemed obstinate persons whereas I onely say they will not persist in Heresie that is in obstinacy of Fundamentall Error nor in turbulent Schisme when they are convinced in Conscience of the sinfulnesse thereof 3. He propoundeth my words generally as if I had said that godly persons in whatsovever Error they hold if they yeeld not to once or twice Admonition they must needs be esteemed obstinate whereas I spake not of every Error but of persisting in Heresie and turbulent Schisme But you may see how farre the love of an Error and desire of contention will transport the minde and spirit The two stories that he telleth upon this occasion in his next words because he nameth neither time nor persons nor occasions of the speeches which he representeth as odious a short Answer will serve to them 1. I have too much experience of the Discussers mistakes of permanent Printed words and therefore am affraid to credit every report of transient words spoken without further Testimony 2. The words might be spoken by some persons concerning others upon such occasions as I will by no meanes excuse or justifie but they might be spoken upon such weights as might justly hold weight in the Ballance of the Sanctuary The latter part of my Answer which he saith cometh not neere the Question I now understand so much by the Discusser but it did not so appeare to me by the Author of the Letter Discusser Mr. Cotton concludeth with a consident perswasion of having removed the grounds of that great Error viz. that persons are not to be persecuted for cause of Conscience Defender How hard a thing is it to write against the Truth and yet to speake with a lip of Truth Compare the words of my conclusion with the Discussers relation or representation thereof The words of my conclusion were these Thus much I thought needfull to be spoken for the avoyding of the grounds of your Error 1. Then let him speake what words of mine doe expresse the confidence of my perswasion It is true I belâ—ive and therefore speake what I have written but wherein did I blow up my beleife to a confident perswasion I thank God I doubt not of the truth of what I have written but it is one thing what I conceive in my minde another thing what I thinke meet to expresse 2. I doe not say in this conclusion that I have removed the grounds of his Error but that I have spoken so much for that end but whether I have done it or no according to the helpe of Christ received I leave others to judge 3. The name of a great Error is foisted in by himselfe ad exaggerandam gloriationis invidiam et indignitatem but though the Error be indeed great yet I did not so stile it when I spake of mine owne endeavour to remove the grounds of it 4. It is an evident falshood that I should conclude This to be that great Error That persons are not to be persecuted for cause of Conscience For it is that which in stating the Question I did in expresse termes deny that any was to be persecuted for cause of Conscience no not an Heretick no not in a Church-way much lesse in a civill way till being convinced in his owne Conscience of his wickednesse he do stand out therein not only against the Truth but against the light of his owne Conscience that so it may appeare he is not persecuted for cause of Conscience but punished for sinning against his Conscience Onely this I now further adde which I know not whether I had not occasion to speake to in this Discourse hitherto unlesse in a touch that sometime it may be an aggravation of sinne both in judgement and practise that a man holdeth it or committeth it in Conscience But that is onely in case when a man hath been wonted to sin so oft against his light and against the cleare Principles of Truth and godlinesse that it may appeare the just curse of God hath given him up to a reprobate-blinded-minde and seared Conscience But of that wee have not had occasion to dispute in this Discourse Discusser But I beleive it shall appeare That the charge of Error Reboundeth backc even such an Error as may be called the Bloudy-Tenent Defender I hope It hath by this time appeared in the former dispute through the blessing of Christ That that which he calleth the Bloudy-Tenent is washed white in the bloud of the Lambe and tendeth both to the ends for which the Prince of peace dyed viz. To the saving of his sheep from devouring to the dissolving of the cursed works of Satan to the maintenance of his Truth and to the preservation of sacred and civill peace both in Churches and Common-wealth CHAP. 78. A Reply to his Chap. 81. Defender TO the last Chapter of the Discusser I thinke it not worth the while to speake any thing it consisting cheifly of the Discussers selfe-applauses and vaine-glorious Triumphs As that he knoweth That the God the Spirit and Prince the Angells of peace and that all the true awaked sonnes of peace will call the Truth be meaneth this Doctrine of Toleration held forth by himselfe blessed That the contemplations thereof are sweet and pretious but Ob how sweet the actions and Fruitions That these lips of Truth to wit distilling in his Pen drop as the honey Combe Honey and milke are under her Tongue and oh that these drops these streames might flow without interruption Onely one passage of his glorious boasting I may not let passe without some Animad version because the Name of Christ is interested in it and dishonoured by it Discusser Were I saith he beleived in this That Christ is not delighted with the bloud of men but shed his owne bloud for his bloudyest enemies That by the word of Christ No man for gainsaying Christ or joyning with his enemy Antichrist should be molested with the Civill sword were this foundation laid and the Magna Charta of highest Liberties and good security given on all hands for the preservation of it How soone would every Brow and House be stuck with Olive Branches Whether this be not to Conclude with confident perswasion the same and farre greater then that which he noted in me even now I matter not Let him reserve conclusions with confident perswasions to himselfe alone Had he ground from the eternall word of Truth for such confidence It would never trouble me nor hurt him But this is not pleasing to Christ nor to the Spirit of his
sword of Persecution of such as doe not joyne in worship with him I cannot say that I have sworn but I thanke God I have waded through credit and discredit through evill report and good report as a deceiver and yet true And for profit I have neither abounded in superfluities nor through mercy have been long destitute of necessaries but whether this be a badge of Antichrist and not compatible to the witnesses of Christ I have not yet learned And for smiting with the fist and sword of Persecution if Persecution be affliction for Righteousnesse sake I would willingly learne of the Examiner whom of all the Righteous I have smitten with the fist or wounded with the sword I speake according to his own meaning meaning as I suppose himselfe doth neither bodily fist nor materiall sword but let him then Instance in some one or other that hath felt the heavinesse of my fist or the keennesse of my sword or else let him remember what the Spirit of God hath said Psal 31.18 concerning such as speake bitter things proudly and contemptuously and I also adde injuriously and falsely against those whom himselfe in the next line styleth holy and beloved To the second the Censure which he calleth unrighteous and uncharitable He confesseth it pleased God to bring him neere unto death But his Answer he returneth in two things 1. By deriving the cause of his sicknesse not from his excessive heate in disputing against the testimonies and writings of the Churches and Elders but from his excessive Labours on the Lords dayes and thrice a weeke at Salem by labours day and night in the field with his own hands by travels day and night also to goe and returne from the Court. Reply The Court being held within twelve or fourteene miles distance from Salem travell to and fro was no likely cause of such distemper And whatsoever his Labours were in Towne or Field on the Lords Dayes or weeke dayes I detract not from them but this is all I would say That that sodaine distemper fell not upon him neither in the field at his labour nor on the weeke dayes or Lords dayes in his Preaching but in his vehement publick arguing against the writings and testimonies of the Churches and Brethren sent to him and to the Church of Salem against his corrupt wayes Wherein though I know All things fall alike to all yet if Moses himselfe as well as Balaam meet with a check in his journey from the hand of God I beleeve it is a just call to consider Is there not a lye in my right hand Or is there not an Idol in my heart or doe I goe about the worke of God in a way of God Howsoever it was farre from me to upbraide your sicknesse as your marginall note taxeth but rather to call you to consider of your unprofitable and perverse use of it The second part of his Answer is a Recrimination of the Officer of Justice by whom in this time he was unmercifully driven from his Chamber to a winters flight Reply When he saith in this time if he meane as the words foregoing expresse the time wherein he was neere unto death it is a manifest untruth James Bonne For the Officer of Justice who then was is a man fearing God and of a tender Conscience and who dare not allow that liberty to his tongue which the Examiner often useth in this Discourse He testifieth he then spake with Mr. Williams and that he discerned no signe of sicknesse upon him much lesse of neernesse unto death He testifieth further that upon the mourning complaint of some of Mr. Williams his neighbours who did adhere to him he left onely the Warrant with him but left him in his house to take the time for his departure limited in his warrant which was not that night though he doe not well remember how many dayes were set him But this I have been given to understand that the increase of concourse of people to him on the Lords dayes in private to the neglect or deserting of publick Ordinances and to the spreading of the Leaven of his corrupt imaginations provoked the Magistrates rather then to breed a winters spirituall plague in the Countrey to put upon him a winters journey out of the Countrey Gangraenam amoveas no pars sincera trahatur TO CHAP. IX TO his 9th Chapter I shall not need to returne any large Reply Let him read over my words againe which he examineth and answereth in this Chapter and they may serve for a just Reply unto his Answer so farre as it is needfull Onely let me touch a Passage or two When he saith That after the first manifestation of the countenance of God reconciled in the bloud of Christ unto his soule it hath been with him as with one whom he saith I told him off his Questions and Troubles have not been concerning his Reconciliation and Peace with God but concerning Sanctification c. I would it might please the Lord to perswade his heart that that one of whom I spake to him was but one to whom the Lord dispensed himselfe in that manner and he a man though he suffered much and wrote much yet no where magnified his sufferings nor vilified the Authors of his sufferings A man that cleaved to the Ordinances and Saints of God and not willing to manifest his dissent from his Brethren no not there where he did dissent as willing to attribute more to the judgements of other servants of God then to arrogate to himselfe But surely the ordinary manner of Gods dispensation of himselfe to his servants is otherwise even to those that have been most precious in his sight Job hath sometimes complained that God tooke him for his enemy Job 13.24.26 David sometimes complaineth that he was cut off from before Gods eyes Psal 31.22 And that God sometimes hid his face from him Psal 30.7 That his soule was also sore vexed with the sence of Gods anger and hot displeasure Psal 6.1 3 Asaph also complaineth of the same in Psal 77. and Heman the Ezrahite in Psal 88. and Hezekiah in Isai 38. If the Lord have dealt more indulgently with Mr. Williams he hath the more cause to walke humbly and circumspectly and fruitfully before the Lord which is the worst that I wish him And let him also consider that whilest he liveth under the Sunne himselfe is not exempted from the dangerous Inmate of a deceitfull heart As for Master Smith he standeth and falleth to his own Master whilest he was Preacher to the Citie of Lincolne he wrought with God then what temptations befell him after by the evill workings of evill men and some good men too I choose rather to tremble at then discourse of If I had made use of his Principles and Arguments as this Examiner saith I have it is more then my selfe know for I have not been acquainted with sundry of his writings as being discouraged with that one wherein he maketh
not first a Puritan For as Mr. Can hath unanswerably proved the grounds and principles of the Puritans against Bishops and Ceremonies and prophanesse of people professing Christ and the necessitie of Christs flock and discipline must necessarily if truly followed lead on to and enforce a separation Reply 1. If there were hardly ever any conscientious Separatist who was not first a Puritan then it seemeth that if there be any Conscience in the Separatists it was first wrought in them by the Ministers of those whom he calleth Puritans 2. Say it were true that he pretendeth That the principles and grounds of Puritanisme did enforce Separation yet I doe not understand what it maketh to the point in hand 3. Neither doe I understand how it suiteth with the Examiners profession who is wont to renounce all communion with Antichristian inventions so frequently to take up into his mouth and pen the Nickname of Puritans which was at first devised by Sanders the Jesuite to cast a reproach upon the persons and way of reformers to render them suspicious and odious to the State The righteous hand of the Lord struck him with madnesse who invented the name nor doth he delight in them that delight to take up a reproach against the innocent 4. How unanswerably Mr. Can hath proved the necessity of Separation from their grounds and principles I will not judge because I have not seene his Booke But to separate from the Churches of England as no Churches or false Churches from their Ministery as a false Ministery from their Sermons as false worship from their professors as no visible Saints And to prove all this out of the Principles and grounds of those holy Saints of God whom he misnameth Puritans will require a strong efficacy of delusions to make it appeare probable to a sad and judicious spirit that is not sorestalled with prejudice or partialitie But the Examiner proceedeth in his Answer to enquire What should be the Reason why the Separatist who witnesseth against the Roote of the Constitution it selfe should finde more favour then the Puritan or Non-conformist And he telleth us Doubtlesse the reasons are evident 1. Because most of the Separatists have been poore and low and not such gainfull Customers to the Bishops their Courts and Officers Mr. Ainsworth himselfe though a worthy instrument of Gods praise lived upon nine pence in the weeke with roots boyled c. Reply In part I will not deny some truth and weight in this reason But take it for granted and it doth but confirme what I said that the Separatist found more favour then the Non-conformist whatsoever the reason was The second reason that he giveth is That it is a principle in nature to preferre a professed enemy before a pretended friend The Separatists have been looked at by the Bishops and their adherents as knowne and professed enemies whereas the Puritans have professed subjection and submitted to the Bishops their Courts their Officers their Common Prayer and worships And yet the Bishops have well knowne with no greater affection then the Israelites bore the Aegyptians cruell task-masters Reply 1. What the Non-conformists did beare it was no more then they thought they might beare with a good Conscience according to the light they had received If they did beare more then what in Conscience they judged lawfull to be borne they had no reason to beare with themselves in so doing But if the Bishops bore the lesse with them in such their subjection it was because they looked at them not as pretended friends but as more dangerous enemies as knowing both that the Lord was with them which made Saul the more afraid of David 1 Sam. 18.28 29. as also that the grounds which they gave of their judgement and practise were more agreeable to Scripture and to the judgement of all reformed Churches and therefore more likely in time to prevaile to the utter overthrow of their usurped Hierarchy But as for the Separatists the Bishops did not discerne either the Lord going forth in like sort with them or their grounds so likely to subvert their freehold Though the Separatists struck at the roote of the Constitutions of their Churches which was indeed a greater blow then to strike at the roote of Episcopacy yet because the Episcopacy saw that the Separatists struck at the things of Christ together with themselves they knew such stroakes would not much hurt their standing The next word which the Examiner answereth is unto that I said God hath not prospered the way of Separation neither with peace amongst themselves nor with growth of grace His answer is 1. That want of peace may befall the truest Churches of the Lord Jesus as them at Antioch Corinth Galatia Reply The distraction at Antioch was soone healed by the Counsell of the Synod at Hierusalem which is a way of peace which the Churches of the rigid Separation have not knowne nor will condescend unto which makes their dissentions destitute of hopes of reconciliation without separation one from another The like may be said of the Churches of Galatia and Corinth I doe not read their differences were healed by Separation but by listning to Apostolicall Counsell 2. His second Answer is that it is a common Character of a false Church maintained by the Smiths and Cutlers shop to enjoy peace none daring for feare of civill punishment to question or differ c. Reply Though it be a common Character of a false Church to enjoy a forced and violent peace yet it is a peculiar Character of a true Church to enjoy holy peace with God and one with another which where it is wanting there is something else wanting either in their Faith or Order 3. His third Answer is That Gods people in that way have sometimes long enjoyed sweet peace and soule contentment in England Holland New-England and other places c. Reply The Answer had been more cleare and evident if he had named those Churches who have long enjoyed such peace in that way in that way I say of rigid Separation separating from the Churches of England as altogether false in their Constitution Ministry worship and therefore refusing to heare the word in the best of the Parish Assemblies It is a wise Proverb of a wiser then Soloman The back slider in heart from any Truth or way of God shall be filled with his owne wayes They that separate from their brethren further then they have just cause shall at length find cause or at least thinke they have found cause just enough to separate one from another I never yet heard of any instance to the contrary either in England or Holland And for New-England there is no such Church of the Separation at al that I know of That separate Church if it may be called a Church which separated with Mr. Williams first broke into a division about a small occasion as I have heard and then broke forth into Anabaptisme and then into Antibaptisme and Familisme