vntruthes It is knowen how vncourteously those reuerend Fathers were entreated their sayings coulde not be heard for the others shamelesse â—issings This commendation of Maister Hardings catholike Doctours is out of season Their learning bicause it is Gods gift I do reuerence their vsage I detest and abhor The rumours of some of their doings are yet hot in Cambridge If I would make base notes in the mergin as Maister Hardings companions do vse where they doe speake slaunderously I could say the truth and make â— Christian mans eares to glowe at their filthynes But God amend them and let the report of their euill be buried with their euill Hardyng ¶ What if God so dispose that nowe also the hart of the Prince detesting the lewdnesse of their liues who professe your Gospell and seing the vntruth of your doctrine and lamenting this vniuersall decay of vertue proceding thereof and the vtter damnation of so many soules be wholy bent to restore the Catholique Religion of the Church and abandon all these wicked new deuises of Geneua What will you then do Dering Now after that Master Harding hath enquired much after Maister Iuells inconstancy and can espy little worthy reprehension in an vncharitable imagination he will néedes gesse what Maister Iuell would doe if he were againe put to his triall And héere with a sighing supposition he doeth féede his Popish veine and asketh What if God so dispose the hart of the Princes c. To this I aunswer that if God should so do his iust iudgement should be vpon the sinnes as well of the Prince as of the people For it is his mercy that we be not consumed But what if God will not so deale with his enheritance What if he wyll not shew his people such heauie things What if the king of Ashur shal ouercome vs no more What if we shall no more be led captiues into Babilon What if the téeth of the wicked are broken What if destructions be come to a perpetuall end Surely if our iniquities doe not turne awaye Gods blessings the hope of the vngodlye is like a thinne fome that is caried awaye with the streame As touching our Princesse hir hart is in the hande of the Lord and though we be no men pleasers yet this is the contentation of our conscience that we sée in hir the expresse tokens of the childe of God and we are witnesses vnto our selues how willinglye we obey hir Dauid was a good king though he would builde God an house thoughe it liked him not that the tabernacle shoulde be couered with Goates heare Ionathas was a good king very zealous though the high places were not taken away Ezechias was a very godly king though when God left him to trie him to knowe all that was in hys hart he found him faultie Iosias was a vertuous yong Prince as euer was in Ierusalem yet he was a feard of Necho king of Egipt Deborah was a good Quéene and is not blamed in the scriptures yet no doubt she was not with out fault and what if our Quéene that hath restored Gods religion should doe something that liked Maister Harding Doth he therfore thinke she will peruert the wayes of the Lorde and set vp againe his Romish Idolatries Their prophecies are now expired and that olde rotten Epistle before the confutation of the Apology is now forgotten From what stomaks such flatteries proceded it is not hard to iudge But peace be vpon Quéene Elizabeth and vpon the Israel of the Lorde For this great decay of vertue wherof Maister Harding complayneth it is not in the worde of God it is our corrupte manners This is an olde obiection made against true Religion S. Paul doth complaine of it that for this cause Gods name was euill spoken of among the gentiles So y e wicked Iewes would complaine Since we left to burne incence to the Quene of heauen we haue ben consumed with the sworde and with famine Yet the leauing off of their Idolatry was no cause of their euills Harding ¶ You did once confesse to mee plainly in Sarisbury when ye came thither in visitation that you neuer lyked the Supremacie of the temporal Princes ouer the Churche of England Did you not tell mee that it stode neither with Scripture nor with Doctours nor with the iudgment of the learned men of Germany Geneua and the parties where you had ben And why then preach you not this Doctrine abroade Dering As touching this priuate talke of Maister Iuell had with Maister Harding at Sarisbury concerning the Quéenes supremacie it is a malicious lye of Maister Hardings vncharitable hart If it were true yet I might well aunswere with the Philosophers that there are .iiii. sorts in whome is singular impudence in a woman that putteth on a mans garment in a gheast that thinketh him selfe as good as his hoste in him that will be talking of Princes wher he hath no occasion 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in him that when a thing is tolde him in secrete doth tel it abroad openly Now if this accusation were true yet what witnesse hath Maister Harding to crye out of his impudency But what if it be false What if it be a shamelesse lye A christian man will saye with weeping eyes God amende the euill speakers But Demosthenes sayd to the people of Athens If you sée a Uiper or a byting Spider though they did neuer sting you yet you will kill them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Lyke wyse O ye men of Athens when you sée a slaunderer hauing this vipers nature tary not till he sting you but kill him as sone as you se him If this accusation were true the very Gentiles could not abide it if it be false they thinke M. Harding not woorthy lyfe And that it is false his own words are a sufficient witnesse which say he spake after the opinion of the learned men in Germany and other where who do all graunt that their is no authority in the earth next vnder God aboue the authority of a Prince and that in all causes and estates ecclesiasticall and temporall euen as S. Peter sayth Submit your selues vnto all ordinauÌ„ce of man whether it be vnto the King as vnto the chiefe or vnto gouernours as vnto them that he sendeth This supremacy which S. Peter grauÌ„teth vnto the king the papist wil in no wise acknowledge but will haue the prowde Pope to treade vppon the Emperours neck and Princes to holde his stirrop while he goeth to horsbacke and waite bare foote at his gates to abide his papall pleasure Good Lord how was that worlde droonken with superstition We giue our Princesse hir authority we submit our selues to hir gouernmeÌ„t she is the anoynted of the Lord and chosen chiefe ruler of his church of Englande and God graunt hir many yeares to reigne till the fretting enuy be confounded in all flattering stomackes That euer Maister Iuell denied hir supremacy
earth But Macte ista virtute tua â–ª yet let your worship reioyce in Gods mercies for not withstanding these daungerous rockes yet you are passed in to narrow way and the Lorde God be praised who shall encrease the number you haue some companye There be men of great honoure and estimation yet louers of Gods truthe and voide of all courtly wickednesse Would God their doings were registred in Ceder trees and they had golden pictures in the Citie OLYMPIA â–ª that they might be spectacles to all noble posteritie God hath sure giuen them double happinesse Their liues shall ende here in honoure and then it pleaseth their father to giue vnto them his kingdome There are other great gouernours of this common wealth beautifull and comely members of Christes body â–ª which make not policie their religion nor blasphemie Gods ordinaunce where mannes lawe doth not establishe it They haue chosen the good parte which shall not be taken from them God shall make their dwelling places sure when the aduersarie shall be throwen downe out of his seat Some other there be of good estatâ— and vertuous not entangled with vanitie nor blinded with superstition which make not gaine their rightuousnesse nor contempt of Gods ministers their estimation They shall receiue an hundred folde in this life and when they haue run their course they shall haue the crowne of glory And as in the time of ELIAS when the Prophet thought that all the children of Israel had forsaken Gods couenaunt broken downe his altares and slaine his Prophets with the sworde yet God made answere I haue reserued vnto me 7000. men which haue not bowed their knee to DAAL euen so at this present time there is a remnant through the election of grace that haue not their inwarde thoughts spotted with papistrie nor their outwarde life with especiall crimes With these and other bicause your worship doth walke togither in the straight path of true obedience God hath giuen vnto you this fruit of your aucthoritie to be beloued among them where you dwell and this comfort of your conscience that by your example they learne to know God Nowe what remaineth but that you pray vnto God that he which hath bâ—gon this good worke in you will make it perfect vnto the ende that as your youth hath not bene fed with suche wantonnesse as in like estate and fortune do the vsually abounde so your further yeares should be voide of all vngodly desires and you found faithfull vnto your death in the which hope and confidence the Lorde God through his sonne Iesus Christ sende you long life and happy yeares to the maintenaunce of his glory and comfort of his Church Fare you well in the Lord from Christes colledge in Cambridge the .2 of Aprill 1568. Youres bounde as his owne Edwarde Dering ¶ To the Christian Reader WHen I first perused this Reioinder of master Hardings good Christian Reader and savve in vvhat sort he made answere to M. Iuels Replie I vvas grieued bothe for his own sake that so many good giftes should be so yll applied and especially for thy sake least peraduenture his deceitful talk should beguile thee I sawe on the one side the inclination of many very daungerously bent to the loue of that religion On the other side much wordly wisdome and vnderstanding countenaunced with suche a singulare boldnesse and impudencie that without the especiall working of almighty God I saw but litle hope of their further libertie whose hart was set to receiue bondage I coulde not be ignoraunt of the common prouerb which I had heard so often that fair words do make fooles faine and I sawe againe the subtile kinde of wryting the sugred words and entising speaches which the enimie did vse to call away the simple vnto their destruction These euils the more perillous they were so I thought it appertained vnto all good men by what meanes possible to seke the spedier remedie And therefore in the great businesse which that good Bishop had in hande whose happy Sermon did first so much enflame the enimie I thought it some parte of my duetie according to the gift that God had giuen me so to make aunswere vnto the subtile aduersarie and helpe to confirme in Gods truthe suche our simple brethren as were falling away Vpon this occasion I first toke vpon me to meddle with this Reioinder And when in reading it I founde the whole nothing worthy answer I did chuse only so farre to touche it as I might bothe make a sufficient discharge of all suche blame as was laid vpon maister Iuel and shewe forthe an open and vndoubted proofe of the residue of maister Hardings labour Then I toke vpon me the aunswer of his long Epistle written to M. Iuell wherein he spareth nothing saue only truthe to allure his reader and the defence of those .225 vntruthes whereby he would discredite Gods true religion By this meanes I did trust that some would quench their longing thirst to drinke of that golden cuppe full of poison and spirituall whoredomes and perceiuing the whole grounde of their religion to be nothing else but quarels and wranglings would at last runne forthe of their vngodly synagoges and most frowarde assemblies This labor I had finished more than .xij. monthes since with so little diligence that it made wiser men to consider better of it whose wisdome was also a longer stay vnto me least either my true meaning might run in blame for want of consideration or my vnripe writing might giue occasion to the enimie of triumph But afterwarde remembring the good councell of Plutarche 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 So I after some continuaunce of time read ouer againe mine owne doing in which as I could haue wished something altered if I had sought the commendation of learning so I sawe nothing but truthe maintained and that in suche sort as maister Harding might not wel contemne it Then knowing assuredly that bothe the defence of truthe might edifie the learned and the manner of my wryting minister grace vnto the godly Reader I would no longer suppresse that which being set abroade might be fruitful And vpon this aduise I deliuered it vnto the Printer but after perusing it I espied in the Printing many faultes which the indifferent reader will not lay vpoÌ„ me Only for my discharge I thought good in this Epistle to admonishe thee of some that by them thou mightest knowe whome to blame for the rest In the .38 leafe for the house of 〈◊〉 thou shalt finde printed the churche of Rome and straight after modest for immodest In the .40 leafe such language for such laughing In the .46 leaf the same hath made vs free for the sonne hath made vs free In the .53 leafe way for â—ay fol. 64. corner it for couer it fol. 65. is not yet for is yet In the .96 leafe thou shalt find king Ionathas yet good reâ—der I wrote king Iosaphat If that fault had ben mine I wold theÌ„ haue alowed M. Harding
Romains was written about the beginning of the raigne of Nero and the yeare of our Lorde .56 at which time Peter was not at Rome as may be proued aboue all gesses and coniectures out of the worde of God First he saluteth diuers by name and yet he speaketh not of Peter a sure profe that Peter was not at Rome Againe he saluteth Andronicus and Iunia with this especial note which are notable among the Apostles and were in Christ afore me How muche more occasion had Paule thus to salute and commende Peter whome he calleth other where a piller of the Church and who was not only before Paule but before all men sauing Andrew his brother called to be a disciple Nothing may be here answered but that only which is true Peter was not at Rome If these reasons seme not strong inoughe then good Reader loke in the .15 to the Romaines thou shalt haue an other which by no meanes may be shifted off Thus he wryteth I enforced my self to preache the gosple not where Christ was named least I should haue built vpon an other mannes foundation but as it is vvritten to vvhome he vvas not spoken of they shall see him and they that heard not shall vnderstande him Then he addeth therefore also I haue bene oft let to come vnto you by which words it is manifest they had but weake maintenaunce of their faith and the true Disciples had no long continuaunce among them But how could this be if Peter were .25 yeare Bishop there Again he saluteth the houshold of Narcissus which Narcissus saith Ambrose vvas Presbiter eius ecclesiae a chiefe ruler in that churche and hovv coulde Paule here haue forgotten Peter being Archpresbiter the chiefe of all rulers and Pope himselfe Thus are vve past .xj. yeare of this Bishoprike and yet vve can not once finde S. Peter in his diocesse In the yeare of our Lord .58 and the seconde of Nero Paule commeth to Rome and then Peter is not at Rome as appeareth by this saying of the Scripture vvhere the chiefe of the Ievves in Rome speake thus vnto Paule We vvill heare of thee vvhat thou thinkest for as concerning this secte vve knovve that euery vvhere it is spoken againste Then vvhen Paule had preached vnto them and some beleued and some beleued not The text saith vvhen he had said these the Ievves departed and had great reasoning among them selues Is it possible that Peter should now haue bene thirtene yeare bishop and yet the chiefe of the Ievves that vvere there vvhen Paule came had scarce any vnderstanding of Christ â–ª They may beleue it that vvill nedes be deceiued Tvvo yeare after this vntill the yeare of our Lorde 60. the fourthe of Nero Paule abideth in Rome All vvhich while vndoubtedly Peter came not once there as may plain appeare if thou reade the Epistles vvhich Paule vvrote in Rome To the Galathians he speaketh muche of Peter and of his conuersation vvith him about tvventy yeares paste but of his present being at Rome not one vvorde and yet he speaketh of him to this purpose to get the more credite vnto himselfe vvhy then doeth he not name him as novve present vvith him In like case vvryting to the Philippians he beginneth his Epistle thus Paule and Timothie vvhy coulde he not heere haue begon Paule and Peter Nay what folly vvas it to bring Peters testimonie many yeares past vvhich novv might be doubted of vvhen he might haue had his present and most certaine vvitnesse vvith subscription of his ovvne hande to confirme his doctrine Againe he vvryteth thus vnto the Philippians that many brethren in the Lord vvere boldned through his bandes and durste frankely speake the worde if bandes would haue made them faithfull no doubt Peter had long before confirmed them surely he would not haue shronke neither for chaines nor prisones It is his owne doctrine that heere vnto we are called he coulde not so sone haue forgotten his owne good councell Againe Paule wryteth he had no man like minded as Timothy was how coulde this be if Peter had bene there Againe he wryteth he had only Aristarchus his prisone felow sure Peter would haue bene in prisone too if he had bene in Rome Againe Marke and Iustus are onely my felow workers and shall we thinke that Peter was now bishop yet would not helpe Paule in preaching Read ouer all Paules Epistles written in Rome and if the spirite of truthe be within thee thou wilt say Peter was not in Rome yet now he shoulde haue bene euen in the floure of his bishoprike Nowe are there only lefte ten yeares behinde in which likewise it shall appeare whether Peter were in Rome At the latter ende of this ten yeare Anno Domini .7d Neronis .14 Paule commeth againe to Rome and is againe imprisonned whence he wryteth his seconde Epistle to Timothie as Ierome and Eusebius and diuers other doe thinke Then Peter is not in Rome Only Luke is vvith me saith S. Paule if this be true vvhere then vvas Peter Shall vve thynke he vvoulde not once see Paule a prisonner Againe at my first aunswering no man assisted me but all forsoke me O vnthankefull vvretches and deseruing yll of Peter that vvoulde novve thinke Peter vvere Bishoppe But heere are nowe nine yeares in the meane season in vvhich it is sone proued Peter coulde be no bishop Paule reioysed that he had escaped out of the hands of Nero. But what needed he if that Peter could set quietly bishop Seneca wryteth secretely epistles vnto Paule and Paule vnto Seneca but neuer a worde of Peter Nero made proclamation that no man shoulde speake either to Christian or to Iewe and howe coulde then Peter be bishop Nero when he had set the Citie on fire in the .9 yeare of his raigne to auoid the enuye of so great a mischiefe he layde all the fault vpon the Christians whereof Tacitus that wicked heathen wryteth thus Repressa in praesâ—ns exitiabilis supersticio rursus â—rumpâ—bat That wicked superstition that was now well repressed sprang vp againe But is it like if Peter had bene then bishop that christianitie shoulde haue bene so quenched that no man did scarce remember it But be it that all this were true let Peter become vnfaithfull let him forget to professe Christ and feede his flocke were he neuer so vnthankfull yet sure he coulde not be then bishop of Rome For in the .10 yeare of his raigne Nero made suche great persecution of all Christians that in no place they coulde be sure but euery where were drawne forthe vnto moste shamefull deathes and this persecution continued .4 yeares without intermission and how vvas Peter then a bishop They had beastes skinnes put vpon them and then were weryed with dogges they laide them on heapes and burnt them to giue light in the night time they hong them vp quicke vpon gibbets they practised all kinde of
right vse of the sacraments then haue they nothing in them but Gods owne ordinance For we maye not intermeddle our own constitutions w t Gods coÌ„maundement as the prophet doth likewise witnesse of the sacrifice For if we doo follow our owne wayes he that killeth a bullocke is as if he slew a man he that sacrificeth a shéepe as if he cut a dogs necke he that offreth an oblation as if he offred swynes bloode he that remembreth incense as if he dyd blesse an Idoll so much doth God hate to haue our deuises ioyned with his wisedome And who knoweth not how the soÌ„nes of Aaron for offring strange fyre were miraculously consumed from heauen Se nowe whether the Romish sacramentes are not in like sort defiled I speake not of the huge multitude which they haue made on their own head The two sacraments of the bodye of Christ and of Baptisme howe doe they vse them As Christ dyd Woulde God they did so they woulde returne with the lost sonne into the lap of the heauenly father How then do they vse them The sacraments them selues they haue prophaned with giuing them to vnméete creatures the coÌ„munion bread vnto dead men Baptisme vnto Bels and Ships and restraine them from fyt persons as the sacrament of Christes bloode from the Laytie The maner of Christes institution they haue all togither peruerted For where as Mathevv Marke Luke Paule doe witnesse that Christ onelye tooke blessed brake and deliuered they like not thys simplicitye they haue inuented new guises Concerning his apparell first he putteth on much masking attire as if he should go somewhether a mumming not as though he should go to serue God His body sometyme must bende forwarde sometyme be vpright sometyme turne rounde about sometyme but the halfe turne sometyme bende ouer the aultare sometyme not touch it His handes sometyme hée layeth downe sometyme hée lifteth them vp sometyme he ioyneth them flat togither sometyme one finger with an other somtyme he rubbeth his hole handes beyond the chalice least any crummes should stick on them somtime he rubbeth but his fingers some tyme he toucheth the bread sometyme the aultare his eyes sometyme hée lifteth vppe somtyme he casteth them downe somtyme he must looke very demurely sometyme after the common manner sometyme he must crosse his face sometyme bende downe his heade his armes sometyme he must holde them vp a crosse sometyme with his handes togither he must pray sometyme for himselfe sometyme for his friendes sometyme for his parishoners sometyme for all men sometyme for no mothen are present his wordes sometyme a lowde somtyme secret Sometime the Clarke alone must aunswere sometyme the Quire He speaketh sometime at libertie sometime certaine woordes with one breath Sometimes he kisseth the aultar on the right hand somtime in the middest But with the Cake and the Chalice especiallye he hath most straunge diuises His Chalice must sometime stand still in the middest of the aultar sometime it is a little lifted vp sometime it is couered with the patin sometime with a clout sometime he maketh three crosses on the Cup and Cake togither sometime seuerally on eche of them Sometime he holdeth the Chalice aright sometime with his sore fingers and thumbes fast ioyned togither Sometime he maketh .v. crosses togither one quite beyond the Chalice an other before it on â—che side an other and the fift on the bottome Sometime he crosseth it thrise within where the wine is Sometime the Deacon holdes the couer in his hand and stretcheth his arme out as farre as he can and vpon payne of presumption the Priest may not touch it till it be giuen him Sometime the Priest taketh it doth kisse it Somtime he toucheth his eyes somtime he crosseth his heade with it somtyme he laieth it downe Likewise the Cake somtime is on the Chalice somtime before it somtime he crosseth it sometime he lifteth it somtime he taketh two péeces of it and holdeth them in his left hande and the third in his right hande Sometimes he taketh one péece of it and dippes it in the Chalice sometime hee taketh an other péece and maketh a crosse before his mouth and when his pastime is done sometime he hangeth it vp in a boxe All these such other toyes they teach in the canon of their Masse and what christian hart woulde not bléede to sée Gods mysteries so impurely handled yet reade the booke thou shalt sée moe Monsters then these There are woordes which thou must not speake but first the one half theÌ„ make a crosse after speake out the rest If the worde be of moe then two syllables yet thou art taught how to vtter it in benedixit thou must first say be then a crosse after that nedixit in calicem first ca then after a crosse licem in immaculatam first immacu then a crosse then latam Diuers such wordes they doo crossecut what shall we say to it but as S. Paul saith Cauete canes cauete concisionem cauete malos operarios Beware of dogs beware of cutting beware of euill labourers I passe ouer for breuity diuers moe contrarieties betwene our sauiour Christes institution and their doing The godly and faithfull man shall sone perceiue them And thus much of the eucharist Concerning baptisme Iohn dyd baptise in Iordan Philip by the way side no coniurings or incantacions before vsed and our sauiour saith ite in vniuersum mundum c. Goo in to the whole world and baptise them in the name of the father and of the sonne and of the holy ghost But thys plaine doing of our Sauiour Christ doth not like their satanized imaginations They must haue salt oyle creame spittle breathing sensing crossings candle droppings hallowings of the Funt putting their hands in the water the Infant must holde the taper and then he that worst maye doth holde the candell and such other iuglings they haue that I can not rehearse Which doings being compared with the institution of the Lord God they shall appeare nothing else but an apish mocking of his eternall wisdome Which being duelye considered their church of Rome shalbe knowen for a dungeon of Iniquity or as Maister Harding tearmed hir a sincke of Sodome and a forge of the Deuils mysteries We contemne therfore these vyle reproches against the B. of Sarisbury Luther Zuinglius Galuin Peter Martir Beza and such other and pray vnto the liuing Lord if it be his good will and pleasure to mollifye the hartes of our enimyes Harding ¶ Now I come vnto your other point wherwith as with a most haynous crime you charge me which is my departing from your Cospel as you say This you obiect bitterly vnto me not onelye in your Aunswere to my Preface but also in very many places of your Replie and specially in your Conclusion ctc. Dering You gesse very oft at Maister Iuells meaning yet hitherto to haue you not once gessed charitablye But the God of loue
manye suche hobbers now adayes God giue vs grace to beware by your example and to take héede of such cold play Hardyng ¶ As for your respectes to saye truely I neuer knew what they were At the gaming of your Gospell you shote to strike downe the true and reall body of Christ onâ— of the blessed sacrament of the aulter with certaine phrases of spech with telling the people of your tropes and figures with comparing the Eucharist to the baptisme with making the preseÌ„ce of Christ like in both You bend your force to strike away the eternall and singuler sacrifice of the church with such a sort and forme as I hetherto neuer vsed and yet thinke to be very straunge as for example with teaching as you do that missa signifieth not the masse but your CoÌ„munioÌ„ that Eucharistia is to be taken not for the sacrament consecrate but for common bread wherewith one Bishop did present another That Melchisedech and Malachias signified the sacrifice of your coÌ„munion wherat the people lift vp their handes and hartes as you say vnto heauen praieth and sacrificeth togither reioysing in the Lorde That in the sacrament of the aultar ther is no vertue nor grace but when it is vsed no more then in water after that one is baptised That ther is no difference betwixt the priest and the people in the holy ministerie of the sacrifice and that lay folke meÌ„ and women do make the sacrifice and be priestes after the order of Melchisedech that God is the author of euill and driueth men to sin Many other such sortes and formes of shooting you and your companions vse at this daye with which I was neuer acquainted as nether any man liuing can burthen me and God is witnesse which to me is a sufficient discharge Wherfore you do me the greater wrong in that you say I taught your Cospell euen in like sorte and forme and in all respectes as it is taught nowe Dering But you procéede at your rouers and tel an vncertaine tale of the respectes of your preachinges You saye you neuer preached against transubstanciation These are vaine repetitions to fill vp your paper How coulde you preach against such filthynesse of the Sea of Rome that were alwaies hobbing and neuer preached out Christ in the simplicitye of his Gospell I am easily perswaded that you neuer did it seing whervnto you are againe returned But whether you did it or no one day it shalbe reuealed All these pointes here alledged are fully discussed in Maister Iuells Replye And good reader leaue of hobbers instruction with the formest shootâ— at the very marke which is Iesus Christ and thou shalt soone perceiue what is his truth Now for thy better instruction I will speake of those markes which are laid out as breâ—fly as I can First this transubstanciation was first mentioned in the councell of Laterane .1215 yeare after Christ. And corpus Christi daye instituted in Vrbanus tyme more then .40 yeares after that So thou séest the antiquity is but of late yeares it hath no warrant in scriptures as their owne doctors Fisher Biell and Scotus doo witnesse How it disagreeth both from scriptures and Doctours M. Iuels Reply hath aboundantlye taught thée Yet for thy better furtherance I will laye before thee for thyne instruction certaine of those places which ouerturne this fonde Doctrine Thou must first consider that this sacrament and Baptisme are the two sacraments that Christ hath left vnto his church which two were prefigured in the olde lawe baptisme in circumcision especially and the Eucharist in the pascall Lambe Now for the true vnderstanding of these Sacramentes thou must remember that the Scripture vseth in them suche a phrase of speakinge that the thynge signified is giuen vnto the signe So of Circumcision whych God had commaunded Abraham the scripture expressely saith this is my couenant yet was it the signe of his couenaunt Of the pascall Lambe it is saide this is the Lordes passeouer yet was it but a token of the passage of the Angell Likewyse of the rock Paul speaketh The rocke was Christ which was yet but a figure of Christ and the sacrifices are saide to be the purifiynges yet were they but a token of ther sanctification And as this was spoken thus in the figure so it is now in the truth S. Paule calleth baptisme lauacrum regenerationis the washinge of the new birth yet it is but a signe of the inward renewynge of the holye Ghost In like sorte it is written baptizare c. he baptised and washed away thy sinnes Yet baptisme was but a token that his sinnes were washt away So Peter baptismus nos quoque saluos reddit yet it is but the seale of our saluation The holy Ghost must come vpon them before they receiue grace In like maner it is saide of the other parte of this Sacrament This cuppe yet the holye Ghost meaneth the wine It is sayd further this cup is the new Testament yet the wyne is not the same but a token of it The newe testameÌ„t is that God is our God and we are his people that he hath forgiuen our iniquity and that he will remember our sinnes no more But wo be vnto that man that shall looke onelye to be saued by that which is in the Priestes Chalice What madnesse is it then séeing this maner of speaking is so vsuall to the Sacraments to choose onely this sentence of our Sauiour Christ this is my body which thou wilt receiue with out figure when neither the scripture it selfe doth alowe it nor the phrase of the spirite of God so often vttered vnto vs doth inforce it I neede not here to recite the playne sayinges themselues which literally layed togither can not stand this is my body saith Christ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which now giuen for you yet Christes body was not then betrayed So saint Peter 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is broken for you yet was not his body then crucified whereby they are inforced yea euen in the same sentence to forsake the letter And for the better assuraunce that we may doe this vpon a good warrant we haue the exposition of our sauiour Chirst it is the spirite that quickneth the flesh profiteth nothing The words that I speake vnto you are spirite and life And saint Paule doth cal it bread euen when it is ministred The bread which we breake is it not the communion of the bodye of Christ This is sufficient for him that will vnderstand how these woordes are taken this is my body He that wil yet stick vnto the letter let him further consider the saying of Saint Paule that the letter killeth and manye other sayings of the scripture which be in like maner as thys is spoken of our sauiour Christ. The woord was made flesh saith S. Iohn yet the deitie of Christ which is the woorde was not turned into man My Father
for he saith as Maister Iuell alledgeth not onely the priest sacrificeth but also the whole company of the faithful But what maketh this for Maister Harding The priest and the people both doe sacrifice therefore is there no difference in the ministerye S. Peter saith you are a kingly Priesthood therfore is ther no difference in the function betwene the minister and the laye man True it is that the minister and the people do offer vp a lyke one sacrifice vnto God but that maketh nothing to Maister Hardings saying Thus we se while he hobbeth and roueth and shooteth at euery marke a lie he was an hypocrite when he was at the best and nowe is led forwarde still to be an open enimie Reade the .222 vntruth An other péece of thys marke is this that men and women make the sacrifice of the aulter and be Priests after the order of Melchisedech Of this reade the .158 vntruth The last péece of thys marke is yet woorst of all nothing else but malice slaunder and wickednesse here agaynst M. Iuell bicause he wryteth not one such woord and commonlye agaynst the truth of God which the wicked doe alwaye peruert And this is that marke that God is the author of euill and driueth men to sin What should I here aunswere but euen saye with the Prophet The scornful haue said We haue made falshood our refuge and vnder vanitie we are hid If euerye such euyll saying myght clayme an aunswere M. Hardings one Reioynder would require many volumes But for a sufficient contentation of the Reader I say in all M. Iuels booke there is no one such woord I adde further nor in all the bookes that euer were wrytten by any godly man of M. Iuels profession Let M. Harding or all hys companions in searching ouer theyr wrytings bryng but one letter whereby we may gesse that euer such a saying was ment and for my part let hys writings be approued If he can not doe this consider of hys religion He would not speake wyckedlye for Gods defence nor talke deceitfully for his cause If anye man require what our opinon is let hym reade any learned man intreating of the predestination of God or of mans frée wyll or for a better warrant let him reade the scriptures it selfe We say al that God made was very good He created man in honour and gaue hym frée wyll and man of himselfe gaue place to inordinate affections where hee might haue obeyed Gods woord euen as it is written He hath set water and fire before thée stretch out thy hand vnto which thou wilt And agayne God created man without corruptiō And concerning sinne we say through the enuy of the Deuill came death into the world Neither néede we make exception agaynst this authoritie bicause it is not in the canō For the Apostle doth authorize it where he writeth He that committeth sinne is of the Deuil For the Deuill sinneth euen from the beginning And in an other place Diabolus est mendax pater eius the Deuill is a lyer and the father thereof not as your friende Mayster Dorman doth interprete it and so was hys father before hym for that were in déede to make God the authour of euill which is the marke you talke of Now euen as the Deuill is authour of euil so we by his suggestiō haue the next cause in our selues which is an vncleane hart lyke as our Sauiour saith Out of the hart procéede euil cogitations c. Of God we say and we say againe and we preache it and we wryte and beleue it and in it we reioyce that God is neyther the author of euyll neyther yet would it should be committed The shepe goe astray without the shepherdes wyll The groate is lost and the poore woman would not so Christ woulde gather togither Ierusalem as the Hen doth hir Chickens but they would not But this we say that the wayes of God are not like the wayes of men that he should not know what thynges were to come He could not be deceiued in his own creature He did foresée the fall of Adam and by his omnipotency could haue made him stand For who can resist hys will He coulde haue made him so pure that he should not haue sinned euen as he hath now made his Aungels and wyll make the whole number of his elect that no man anye more shall take awaye theyr ioye from them And as we are sure this is Gods omnipotēcy so why he did it not we cā not assigne any cause but bicause he would not For we knowe he hath done al things that he woulde Yet a cause ther was and that a most iust and good cause For their is no iniquity with him And this cause he did knowe in his eternall secret counsell before all worldes for as much as all thinges are present with him To enter further into Gods councell and aske why he appointed such a course in which the reprobate both Angels and men shoulde fall away this were presumptuous folly Shall the pot say vnto the potter why hast thou made me so The Godly will staye here and in the feare and loue of God wil professe and beleue both that God ruleth all thinges with his mighty worde and yet wylleth he no man to sinne We haue so much corruption in our selues that we néede no further prouoking vnto wickednesse Now to Maister Hardings purpose thus much we saye that God permitteth synne and with longe patience doth suffer the vessels of wrath prepared to destruction but yet this permission we say doth appertayne vnto the will of God For he doth not suffer it eyther inforced or against his will neither yet doth he so suffer it that he doth nothing him selfe For he ruleth and gouerneth euen their iniquity He suffereth it not to rage at will but guideth it either to the punishment of the wicked as he oft punished the Israelites with the wickednes of straunge Princes or to the triall of his elect as it is well acknowledged of the prophet Dauid saying of Shimei he curseth euen bicause the Lord hath bid him curse Dauid yet God made not the malice of Shimeis mynde Likewyse where it is sayde of the destruction of Ierusalem that God brought vpon them the king of the Chaldeans God did not ingraffe in Nabuchadoneyzar his great cruelty but being bred in his own mind he brought it vpon whom it pleased him Therfore Christ saith all the heares of our head are numbred and with out Gods appointment ther shal not one of them perish This therefore is our doctrine God is no cause of wickednesse but men cannot apply their owne wickednesse but where it pleaseth God neither do they exercise their wickednes but when and how far his grace doth leaue them For plainer declaration of this we may compare the grace of God and the sunne If the sunne be ouer