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A11213 The poore vicars plea Declaring, that a competencie of meanes is due to them out of the tithes of their seuerall parishes, notwithstanding the impropriations. Written by Thomas Ryves Dr. of the Ciuile Lawes. Ryves, Thomas, Sir, 1583?-1652. 1620 (1620) STC 21478; ESTC S116301 50,156 162

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onely to the person of the principall Lord or owner not extended to his Farmer And generally looke what priuiledges the Abbats had concerning those lands the same are still pleadable by the Takers from the King and what burthens soeuer the Abbats were chargeable with with the same are their Successors at this day for quoad hoc they still retaine the nature of Abbey lands From whence I conclude That these words of manner forme state and condition are not restrained to the present and actuall possession wherein those lands were held at the time of the Suppression but doe comprehend the whole nature of their title with all priuiledges burthens whatsoeuer therevnto belonging or in any wise appertaining And therefore to draw now vnto our purpose Whereas vpon euery Impropriation a conuenient maintenance was heretofore reserued for the Vicar as hath beene before declared which maintenance was to bee made good vnto him from time to time by the Abbat or other Proprietarie that out of the very fruits and reuenues of the Parsonage It is manifest That the Parsonage in whose hands soeuer it bee found remaineth still chargeable with the same burthen For Res tranfit cum sua onere and whosoeuer now holdeth it is to hold it in the same and like manner forme state and condition as the Prior did But the Prior held those Appropriations with the charge of a competent maintenance to the Vicar at the discretion of the Ordinarie therefore the Proprietarie that now is is chargeable with the same and is to bee impleaded for it as the Prior was But the Statute is yet more plaine for the poore Vicars profit For bee it that the Appropriation had beene passed to the King and from him to his Grantee without mention of such manner forme state and condition as is before recited yet afterwards the Statute addeth a full and perfect clause of Sauing and Reseruing his right vnto him in these words Sauing to all person and persons Bodies politique and their Successors all such right claime title interest possession Rent-Charges Annuities Leases Farmes offices Fees Liueries and Liuings Portions Pensions Commons Synodies Proxies and other profits which any of them haue claime ought may or might haue had in or to the premisses or to any part or parcell thereof in such like manner forme and condition to all intents respects and purposes as if this Act had neuer beene had ne made c. These words Saluo Iure as one saith Bartol ad l. si debitor ff Quibus modis pigh vel Hypols sol verba sunt magnae efficaciae and the reason is giuen by Bartolus because Protestatio conseruat ius protestanti And as they are words of great efficacie so likewise are they of very large extent For this word Ius Ad personas ad Res ad actiones pertinet saith the Emperour Iustinian Iustit lib. 4. And therefore when all right is saued and reserued by the Act it is manifest That the Right of Action and Recouerie is reserued as well as any other For it were a vaine thing for the law to giue a man Right to a thing and not a Right of Action to recouer it Well then the Statute saith vnto euery person Bodies politique and their Successors All right and claime to any part or parcell of any lands Parsonages appropriate or other Hereditaments Liuings or profits comming to the King by the dissolution of the Manasteries A Vicar is a body politique and had at the time of the Dissolution Right Claime and Action to so much of the Appropriate Parsonage as would make a congruous and competent portion for his maintenance as hath been before declared Therefore this right is reserued and saued to him and his successors still And so saued to all intents and purposes as if this Act had neuer been made Had this Statute neuer been made the Monasteries had neuer finally bin dissolued had they continued this Action had been good against them and therefore is still good against the Proprietary who now succeedeth in the Abbats place Likewise the Bishop of the Diocesse at the time of the Dissolution had a right of power and Iurisdiction in himselfe whensoeuer the Abbat presented a Clerke vnto him for institution not to admit him vnlesse the Abbat would first allot lay out and assigne a conuenient portion for his maintenance If the Abbat had not made such allowance within the time limited by the Bishop the Bishop had a right in himselfe to collate the Vicarage vpon the Presentee and to make a fit allowance for him at his discretion out of the fruits and profits of the Appropriation by sequestring them vnto his vses If the Abbat refused to obey or presumed to violate his sequestration the Bishop had power to compell him by Ecclesiasticall Censure and Excommunication the end wherof was imprisonment by the Secular armes without Baile or Mainprise vntill the order be obeyed If the Abbat presented not at all the Ordinarie had right of Collation as in Case of Lapse and Deuolution and generally hee had a right and power in himselfe to taxe the Benefices in fauour of the Vicars as hath beene formerly prooued both by the Lawes and also by the practise of those times This right the Bishops had at the time of the Dissolution therefore this right is safe vnto him still and safe to all intents and purposes as if this Acte had neuer beene had ne made Had this Act neuer been made the Abbats had still continued and vpon them hee might now exercise as formerly he did all that his power right and Iurisdiction Therefore hee may now proceede in like manner against the Proprietarie which holdeth the same in his possession at this day and in no other manner forme state and condition then the Abbat did For the words are plaine That what right soeuer hee might claime if this Statute had not bin made the same he may claime still notwithstanding it is made And it is to bee obserued that the Statute vseth as generall words as the wit of man could possibly deuise Sauing to all persons c. to all Bodies politique c. All right title claime interest liuing or other profits c. thereby to giue satisfaction to euery man that might feare any preiudice to himselfe from this Act. And therefore if the Bishop should say My Iurisdiction and my interest of Right in assigning a due portion vnto the Vicar at my discretion is impeached because the Parsonage now goeth to the King and from him to other Lay-men The Statute answereth that No For all his right and interest is saued to him as if this Statute had neuer been made If the Vicar should say That by the lawe heretofore hee had Congruam Portionem by way of Prouiso saued and due vnto him and that hee could sue the Abbat before his Ordinarie for so much of the Parsonage as would serue to maintain him in a more fitte and decent fashion But that
my purpose is not at this time to perswade a Parlament to make a Law but to prooue vnto the world That the Law is of force alreadie and wanteth nothing but a fit and a willing hand to put it in execution In pursuit of which point I list not frame vnto my selfe an aduerse partie Rather I wish that the iustice of the cause may neuer finde an enemie Neither will I be curious in forging Arguments against mine owne opinion for that were but like tilting at a Sarazens head Onely I will shew that all those Statutes which most properly concerne this matter make nothing against but altogether for the Vicars maintenance in such sort as hath beene before declared wishing and hoping also That some religious Professour of the Common Law may hereafter vpon these poore grounds of mine goe on and maintaine this cause of GOD and of his Church with more strength of witt and force of Arguments then I am able to doe in a point which doeth not so properly belong vnto mine owne profession The Statutes therefore that principally ●7 31. H. 8. 1. Edw. 6. in England 28. 32. H. 8. in Ireland concerne this matter are those of 27. and 31. Henry 8. and 1. Edward 6. in England and those of 28. and 32. of Henry 8. heere in Ireland to the same effect All made for the dissoluing suppressing surrendring and taking into the Kings hands the Monasteries Free-Chappels and other religious houses in both these Kingdomes In these Statutes it is intended that the King shall haue and hold the said Monasteries with their Parsonages appropriate and other lands in as large and ample manner and forme as the late Abbat or Prior held them at the time of the dissolution suppression or other giuing vp of the same for so say the Statutes His Maiestie shall haue and enioy to him and his heires for euer all and singular such Monasteries and tithes and in as large and ample manner as the Abbats now haue them in the right of their Houses And in another place of the same Statute it is said That the Takers from the King shall haue and hold all such lands c. And shall haue all such Suites Actions Entries c. in like manner forme and condition c. And in another passage That the King shall hold them in the same state and condition as now they be c. Which words of manner forme state and condition are not to bee restrained as I conceiue to the present and actuall possession of the Abbat at the day of the dissolution but to the vniuersall right which he had in the name of his House And therefore wee finde it sometimes added in those Statutes Or of right ought to haue had held or occupied the same at the time of the dissolution For whether the Abbat had any thing vniustly detained from him the King succeeding in his right had action to recouer it because the Abbat might and of right ought to haue recouered the same Or whether the Abbat owed any thing to any man or wrongfully detained from any man the King or his Grantee standing seised in his right might bee impleaded for it because there was no more passed to the King then the Abbat ought of right to haue possessed And therefore the law chargeth the King with the paiment of all the due debts of the Abbats or their Houses by the Statute 27. Henry 8. in England not printed Whereas therefore it is said That the King shall hold those lands and Impropriations in the same manner forme and state as the Prior did at the time of the dissolution I take the meaning to be that hee shall enioy them by vertue of that Act with the same limitations priuiledges and burdens as the Prior did As for example The Templars held their lands exempt from paiment of tithes not simply but sub modo scilicet quamdiu propriis manibus excoluntur wherefore sub eodem modo and in the same forme and state the King doth and ought to hold those lands exempt from paiment of tithes vnto this day And that this is so and that those Acts of dissolution did not onely looke to the present actuall estate of those lands but had an eye to the whole right of the Abbats and to all future possibilities appeareth plainely by a Case of the 11. of the late Queene reported by Dier 11. Elizabeth Dier Where a Prior of a late dissolued house of St. Iohn of Ierusalem had long before the dissolutiō made a lease of the Mannor of D. for terme of yeeres vnto A. which A. beeing tenant did pay tithes of the said Mannor to the Abbey of Rochester Vpon the dissolution the King granted the reuersion of the said Mannor in fee vnto one Stathome and his heires Afterwards the lease expired and Stathome taking the land into his owne hands refused to pay tithes alleaging that the Mannor was passed to him To haue and to hold the same in as ample manner as the Prior held it c. And further declared in Chancery That the said Prior so long as hee held it in his owne hands was discharged from paiment of tithes by a priuiledge from Rome as all the Cistertians Hospitalers and Templars were And vpon consideration of the Statute of 27. Henry 8. It was resolued by Catlin Saunders Southcote and Dier and vpon their opinion it was accordingly decreed by the Lord Keeper that then was That the said Stathome and his heires should hold the said Mannor discharged from paiment of tithes Tanque a ceo quils ceo lesseront misseront a ferme i. vntill such time as they should let it out to farme for sub hoc modo was the priuiledge granted to the Prior and sub eodem modo was the land to bee held by the King and from him by Stathome and his heires By the same reason if at the time of the dissolution the Prior had held it in his owne hands and consequently it had come to the King and from him to Stathome discharged from tithes in the beginning yet if afterwards he had let it out to a Farmer his Farmer should not at this day bee discharged because the Priors farmer was to pay it notwithstanding the priuiledge And Stathome was to hold it In such and in like ample manner True but in no more ample manner then the Prior did Now the Prior was to hold it discharged from paiment of tithes no longer then while hee held it in his owne hands therefore also Stathome shall hold it in the same manner and with the same limitation This haue I heard deliuered by men of good sufficiency and skill in the Common Lawes And Dier seemeth to auerre as much when he saith Tanque à ceo quils ceo lesseront misseront à ferme Implying thereby That so soone as it should fall into a Farmers hands the priuiledge should be suspended as being not Simple but Modall and restrained
Seeing therefore that these are now grow●n into disusance reason good that their allowance bee made good againe and increased some other way In the same Parliament there was order taken for the hire of Slaters and other workemen by the day and it is ordained that their wages should bee increased from time to time according to the prices of corne and other victualls there is now no Carpenter or Slater heere which will take lesse then sixteene pence per diem for himselfe and twelue pence for his man which amounteth to vpwards of thirtie pounds per ann What reason therefore that the poore Minister who ought to be honorabilis in populo should be held to the old taxation of twenty Markes Irish by the yeere at the vttermost which commeth not to eight pence per diem for the maintenance of himselfe and all his family But the poore Vicars lot is not so good as to haue the allowance the Statute speaketh of Our horse-boies wages are not great would God our Vicars were no worse Our horse-boies haue commonly forty shillings wages besides meat drinke and lodging and foure paire of Broagues per ann How lamentable then is that which hath of late beene discouered That throughout the whole Prouince of Connaught and in sundry other Diocesses of this Kingdome the Vicarages for the most part are vnder forty and many of them not aboue fifteene shillings sterling towards all charges by the yeere But to conclude this point If any man thinke that twentie nobles or ten pounds sterling according to this Statute be at this day a sufficient and reasonable maintenance for a learned Minister of the Church and Preacher of Gods word to maintaine himselfe his wife children and family and to keepe hospitality withall and no reason will perswade him to the contrary I for my part will not bee contentious nor vse farther argument against him onely I wish him more experience and that sauing my charity hee himselfe his wife children and family might liue but one moneth according to that rate and afterwards hee bee asked what hee thought of the sufficiēcy of such allowance Neither yet is this the nihil vltra of our misery for euen vnto this day as if the ghosts of those Monkes did still walke and haunt vs Ecclesiasticall liuings of all sorts are continually taken from the Church vnder colour of concelements and as if in old time they had belonged to their houses In so much that in one small Dioces namely of Elfin twenty fiue Vicarages fiue Rectories and two Prebends are found to haue beene reft from the Church by this occasion all which did anciently stand charged in the Kings bookes with first fruits and twentieth part An infallible argument that since the dissolution they haue beene in the proper vse and lawfull possession of the Church neither doe other Diocesse want their part in this calamity And to adde to our griefe his sacred Name is heerein euer vsed who of all men mortall would most abhorre it For hee that of his Princely bounty and Christian deuotion hath of his owne giuen wellnigh three hundred thousand acres of principall good land to the reuerend Bishops dignitaries and Parish Churches of the North of that Kingdome would not he much more restore the tithes to the poore Vicars of other parts if it may appeare that of right they belong vnto them doth King Iames rule his subiects by one law and himselfe by another or haue wee not yet proofe enough of his well willing to the Church This then is an euill which cannot be healed but by that mysterious and medicinable hand of the King himselfe A hand which often hath wrought and daily doth worke greater miracles and cure more running sores then this in the body of the Church and Common wealth and will not leaue this vntoucht if euer it happen to be brought vnto him But to leaue what we haue not and to returne to what we haue I haue often said and endeauoured to prooue that the Bishop is the man authorised by law to assigne the Vicars portion wherein I am not ignorant that many men may happily draw my discretion into question and condemne my iudgement in labouring thus earnestly to reuiue the memory of an old discontinued and almost forgotten point of law for what if all were granted to be law that hath beene said what profit is the Church like to reape thereby seeing that the execution thereof belongeth onely to the Bishops weake men God wot some will say for the most part in this Kingdome to hold that they haue but altogether vnable to recouer what they had Medice cura teipsum Their Lordships should doe well to recouer their owne rights first and then wee should haue some hope that they would be able to preuaile for the Vicars also True indeede the execution of this law belongeth peculiarly to the Bishops but it is as true that in this their long default it doth now as properly belong to the King For there is no doubt but that before those Acts of Dissolution the Pope as supreame Ordinarie pretended made all those Constitutions and Canons which before are mentioned for the erection of Vicarages and maintenance of the Vicars many of which were directed to sundry of our owne Bishops in England and they by the toleration of the King put them in execution from time to time and were euer iustified in their doings by the Reuerend Iudges of the land If then the Souereigne power in these Cases and both the making and execution of these lawes did heretofore belong vnto the Pope then is it manifest that the same at this day doth immediatly belong vnto the King vpon whom by way of Restitution the Parliament hath seated all the power which the Pope then vsurped in lawes not repugnant to the word of God and Statutes of the Kingdome Wherefore if the Bishop cannot yet the King can doe them right I say not by the power of his prerogatiue but by a due course and forme of Law which no man may repine at and therefore if the right may appeare to bee on their side means of recouering that right cannot bee wanting to them But bee it that they could seeke no higher then the Consistorie of the Bishop yet is not their case so desperate as some cōceiue the same to be For I haue shewed before that not only the high Court of Parliament but also the reuerēd Iudges of former times which many times thwarted with Bishops in other matters yet euer assisted them in assigning encreasing and restoring the poore Vicars portion yea and pressed them oft times to this duetie when they were remisse and negligent of themselues why then should not wee hope the like from the Reuerend Iudges of these dayes whose pietie zeale and feruencie in Religion is by so much greater then was that of their predecessors by how much the Religion it selfe which these professe is better and more worthy of defence and maintenance