authoritie to any heresie or errour I denie vtterly neither shal M. Iewel or any of his felowes what so euer be hable to proue the contrarie That any where I haue tolde them sadly and in good earnest that the bishop of Rome is a king if he meane the expresse name of a King I tel him here eftsones sadly and in good earnest and without Saulue la vostre that it is a starke lye Confut. fol. 280. a. The pope hath kingly power yet is he no king In the first place of my Confutation by him coted I say The pope hath a kingly power ouer his owne subiectes euen in temporal thinges and now I tel you here for example he hath it as Moyses had yet he taketh not vpon him to be a King nor chalengeth vnto him that title Neither doth he in his owne person bicause he acknowlegeth him selfe to be no King exercise the function and office of a King but committeth such charge vnto other Laye persons If ye enuie the Pope his kingly power and possessions whiche he holdeth by right beware you be not at length thought vnworthy and remoued from the landes of a Baron and the Earledom of S. Osmunde whiche you holde vnduely If that happen to come to passe where then shal we finde your good Lordship In the other place of the Confutation vpon occasion geuen by wordes of the Apologie I say that the Pope maie rule temporally Confut. fol. 305. b. and more there say I not touching this matter Item there Iewel That vnto him belongeth the right of bothe Svvordes as vvel Temporal as spiritual Confut. fol. 247. b. Harding What so euer I bring in my Confutation concerning both Swordes committed vnto the Successour of S. Peter it is S. Bernardes it is not myne Wheras the Apologie maker were it M. Iewel or who so euer it was by the multitude of the light scoffes it appeareth that he was the Penneman of it mary the stuffe I heare say was gathered by the whole Brotherhead whereas I say he steppeth forth very peartly and saith thus Confut. fo 247. a. I haue a special fansie to common a worde or two with the Popes good Holinesse and to say these thinges vnto his owne face Tel vs I praie you good holy Father c. Which of the Fathers euer said that bothe the Swordes were committed vnto you To this question the answere I make in the Popes behalfe is this Confut. fo 247. b. L. Si quis C. d. test Of the Popes teÌ„poral Svvorde De Considerat li. 4 Math. 26. Let S. Bernard writing to a Pope answer for the Pope He is a sufficient witnesse Where your selfe doo allege him much against the Pope you can not by the lawe iustly refuse him speaking for the Pope The spiritual sworde you denie not I trowe Of the temporal sworde belonging also to the Pope thus saith S. Bernarde to Eugenius He that denieth this sworde to be thine seemeth to me not to consider sufficiently the worde of our Lorde saying thus to Peter thy predecessour put vp thy sworde in the scaberd The very same then is also thine to be drawen forth perhappes at thy becke though not with thy hande Elles if the same belonged in no wise vnto thee where as the Apostles said Lucae 22. The Churche hath both svvordes by S. Bernard beholde there be two swordes here Our Lorde would not haue answered it is yenough but it is to muche So bothe be the Churches the spiritual sworde and the material But this to be exercised for the Churche and that of the Churche That by the hande of the Priest this of the souldier but verely at the becke of the Priest and commaundement of the Emperour Thus touching the Popes bothe swordes you are fully answered by S. Bernarde I trust you wil not be so vncourteous as to put him beside nor so parcial as to allow him when he seemeth to make some shewe for you and to refuse him when he is found plaine contrarie to your false assertions Vpon this place of S. Bernarde M. Iewel in the Defence sitting forsooth M. Iewels graue sentence pronounced against S. Bernarde Defence pag. 528. Ibidem as it were vpon the Benche like a Iudge hauing power to geue sentence either of life or of death saith ful grauely and Iudgelike and pronounceth this sentence S. Bernarde saith The Pope hath bothe swordes But S. Bernardes authoritie in this case is but simple But why I praie you Sir Iudge Marke the cause and profounde reason of this Iudge He liued saith he eleuen hundred yeeres after Christes Ascension in the time of King Henry the first the King of England in the middes of the Popes route and tyrannie And shal we for this cause shake of S. Bernarde Then why maie we not as wel sitte in Iudgement vpon M. Iewel and in like sorte but with more reason pronounce this sentence M. Iewel saith the bodie of Christe is not in the Euchariste the bodie and bloude of Christe are not to be adored in the Sacrament The Churche hath no externall Sacrifice no external Priesthod Praier made for the dead is vaine and superstitious There be not seuen Sacramentes but onely two and by the same grace is not conferred or geuen but onely signified The Pope is Antichriste and al that holde the olde Faith of the Churche who are Papistes perteine to the Kingdome of Antichriste c. But M. Iewels authoritie in these cases is but simple He liued almost sixteen hundred yeeres after Christe and is yet aliue in the time of Quene Elizabeth the Quene of England in the middes of the Caluinistes route and tyrannie The same sentence with a smal change of wordes maie with like reason be pronounced vppon Luther Zuinglius Peter Martyr Bucer Caluine Beza Baudie Bale Hooper Cranmare and the rest of that wicked route It were a thing worthy to be knowen why S. Bernarde should be condemned in respecte of his age and of the route whiche this man telleth vs the Popes then bare and these Apostates should be beleeued and honoured with al mennes assent yelded to their sayinges and teachinges their age being foure hundred yeeres later the tyranny crueltie vilanie and outrage whiche in sundry places by them of that side is vsed farre surmounting any what so euer seueritie of gouernement whiche the Popes vsed in that time their learning not equal with the learning of S. Bernarde their witte muche inferiour to his of eithers vertue and good life what shal I speake To compare theirs with his it were a kinde of blasphemie so holy a Father was he so dissolute Apostates are these Item there Iewel That all kinges and Emperours receiue their vvhole povver at his hande and ought to svveare obedience and Fealtie to the Pope For these be his vvordes euen in this bâ—rke so boldly dedicated vnto your Maiestie It is a great eye soare saith M. Harding to the ministers of Antichriste to see the
A DETECTION OF SVNDRIE FOVLE ERROVRS LIES SCLAVNDERS CORRVPTIONS AND OTHER false dealinges touching Doctrine and other matters vttered and practized by M. Iewel in a Booke lately by him set foorth entituled A Defence of the Apologie c. By Thomas Harding Doctor of Diuinitie Psalm 4. Filij hominum vsquequo graui corde vt quid diligitis vanitatem quaeritis Mendacium O ye sonnes of menne how long wil ye be dul harted what meane ye thus to be in loue with Vanitie and to seeke after Lying RESPICITE VOLATILIA COELI ET PVLLOS CORVORVM IF LOVANII Apud Ioannem Foulerum Anno 1568. CVM PRIVILEGIO REgiae Maiestatis Priuilegio concessum est Thomaâ— Hardingo Sacra Theologia Professori vt Librum inscriptum A Detection of sundrie foule errours lies sclaunders c. per Typographum aliquem Iuratum imprimere ac impunè distrahere liceat Datum Bruxellis 24. Maij. Anno 1568. Subsig Vander A A. The Preface to the Reader AT the first comming of this Treatie to mens handes what saith one so smal a Booke for answer to so great a Volume Shal this Detection conteining litle aboue one hundred streetes of Paper matche the Defence that is almost foure hundred sheetes What meaneth D. Harding Is he not hable to confute M. Iewel Or is he loth to take paines To this I answer How hable I am to confute what so euer M. Iewel hath written not onely in his late pretensed Defence but also in his Replie or in the Apologie whereof at leaste he is thought to haue benne the penneman let it be iudged by the learned this wil I boldly saie if he haue no better meane to make his partie good then hitherto he hath vsed write he what him liste it shal be no great praise to any man to haue confuted him As it had benne smal glorie for valiant Achilles to haue beaten Thersites whom Homere describeth ready of his tongue and a coward of his handes so among the skilful Diuines he may not looke to winne great coÌ„mendation of learning who confuteth M. Iewelles writinges For certainely good Reader if thou haue but a meane insight in these Controuersies nowe so much disputed of betwixte the Protestantes and vs and wilt bestowe some good labour about the exacte trial of the thinges he hath written thou shalt easily espie the feeblenesse of his side Thou shalt finde that he perfourmeth more in shewe then in acte that commonly he maketh vp in Tale where he lacketh of Weight that with multitude of wordes he couerâ—th thâ— pâ—nurâ—â— of Râ—â—â—â—â— that with huge numbers of Doctours sainges he setteth foorth the barrennesse of substantial Prouâ—â—â— aâ— mâ—ny do their thinne Hippes with stufte Hosen and their solender Armes with bombast Sleeues This being so whereas the dewe discussion of these pointes in controuersie descendeth vnto the bottom of thinges and swimmeth not aboue vpon the fome of wordes euery man can soone conceiue howe meane learning may suffice to confute such a Writer If therefore I make profession of sufficient habilitie in this case there is no cause why I should be reprehended as one that attributeth more vnto him selfe then male seeme to stand with modestie This muche being said for proufe of habilitie some perhappes would beare what I haue to saie for my selfe that I am not lothe to take paines For he that is hable to doo a good and profitable worke and refuseth the labour to doo it seemeth to be gilty of slâ—wth True it is to refel al that M. Iewel hath written or rather gathered together out of others for in deedâ— he doth nothing els in manner but laie together heâ—pes of other mennes sayinges against the Catholique Churche and against the Catholique Religion it were greate paine By iudgement bothe of Cicero and Quintilian the labour of writing is accompted very greate And the Scripture saith Eccles 12. Faciendi plures libros nullus est finis frequénsque meditatio carnis afflictio est There is no ende of making moe Bookes and the often breaking of a mannes braines about suche studie is a greate pounishment to the bodie If any doubte hereof let him set him selfe a worke earnestly about writing in suche sorte as I speake of and he shal saie as I doo I doubte not And therefore it behoueth them that geue them selues to writing to haue not onely health but also good strength of bodie Al this M. Iewel knewe right wel And for that very cause when he sawe that smal bookes would fone be answered as it appeared by my Answer made to his Chalenge and by my Confutation of the Apologie he thought it better policie or it was so put in his head by the aduise of his brethren to goe an other waie to worke that is to saie to replie vpon me and to make his Defence with huge Volumes that either a long time should passe before an answere could be returned hoping that in the meane while his Gospel should take too deepe a roote afterward to be pluckt vp out of the Readers haâ—tâ—s by any what so euer booke that should come to their handes or that I should be wearied and worne out with the labour of answering and perhappes die before I came to the ende or that the very hugenesse of the bookes should fraie me from the enterprise of making aâ—swer In this case it seemed to mee best neither by taking vpon me to answere the whole Bookes and euery parcel of them to geue our Aduersaries the aduantage of the time not to shorten my life by immoderate paines emploied to no great profite nor by my silence and by open geuing ouer the whole as it were by fleeing out of the fielde to leaue them vnto their Triumphe but by answering the pointes of greatest importance to set forth a sufficient Defence of the truth for staying of the doubteful to confirme them in the true doctrine and thereby to geue out a cleere euidence what truthe is to be looked for in the reste of his superfluous stuffe sith he hath shewed him selfe so vntrue a dealer in the chiefe matters Thus haue I doâ—ne not yeelding to slewth but moued with good aduise noâ— as being loth to take paines and to susteine a long trauaile but as one who the state of the present time considered and the vncertaintie of thinges to come mistrusted thought it better to doo some good out of hande though it were of losse labour then by long differring whiles a larger Volume were intended to suffer to the losse of many soules so muche false doctrine to grow in credite As touching the Replie what hath benne donne to those that reade our bookes it is not vnknowen What so euer he had to bring against the Râ—â—â—â—resâ—nce against the Sacrifice of the Bodie and bloude of Christâ— against the Masse whereat the Priest receiueth the Communion without other companie receiuing sacramentally with him in the same place against the Churche Sâ—â—â—ice in a learned tongue against the anciâ—â—◠〈◊〉 of
Religious personnes and others of the Clergie detected What if I saie al these and many other suche thinges were graunted of whiche we are persuaded that some are true the more parte is false muche is so written as it maie be defended no lesse then impugned What great inconuenience what preiudice to our Faith can ensue of al this Must the Catholike and ancient Doctrine of the Churche for these pointes be founde vntrue Must this now needes be made a good Argument Some of their liues were sinneful Ergo their Doctrine was false Truely these be the matters with the enlarging whereof his Defence hath risen to so huge a quantitie About whiche I haue not thought it needeful to bestow muche labour partly bicause in most of those pointes my Confutation of the Apologie yet standeth vnrefelled partly also bicause it liked me not to emploie good houres in so friuolous and vnfruitful a trauaile but chiefly bicause what so euer be said by M. Iewel touching these thinges either on the one side or on the other it importeth no disprouse of the Catholique doctrine in any Article whiche specially I haue taken in hande to mainteine Howbeit the thinges he bringeth in to deface the Churche must needes with wise menne in this case beare smal credite being considered vpon whose authorities and reportes they be auouched The Catholikes can not be greatly moued with suche thinges as are written in preiudice of the Churche either by them whose Bookes be of suspected faith and therefore condemned by the Church as Auentinus and Beno de vita Hildebrandi or haue ben corrupted of late yeres by the Lutheranes of Germanie as Vrspergensis In Indice librorum prohibitorum Antonius de Rosellis Polydorus Vergilius de Inuentoribus rerum Paschasius and others or who haue benne muche inclined to innouations in Religion and fauoured the Procedinges of Luther and his disciples as Erasmus Cornelius Agrippa Carion Lorichius Cassander and suche others or who be knowen to be manifest Heretiques and professed enemies of the Churche as Gaspar Hedio the Author of Paralipomena added to Vrspergensis Anselmus Rid Vergerius Sleidan Illyricus Fabritius Montanus Iacobus Andreae and many suche others al whiche M. Iewel allegeth against the Churche the Popes and the Clergie boldely as if they were Doctours of sufficient authoritie and sound credite against whom specially in these matters no exception might be taken As there is no cause why we shoulde greatly esteeme any thing spoken by these either against the manners of the Clergie or against the Ceremonies and customes of the Churche or against any parte of the Catholique Doctrine bicause in iudgement the bare worde of the Accuser or of him that otherwise is an il willer beareth smal credite against any man So touching the doctrine of Faith we feare not what so euer M. Iewel allegeth against vs out of the Schoolemenne Canonistes of al sortes Summistes and Glosers out of the Cardinalles and those other learned and graue menne appointed by Paulus Tertius to geue information of thinges in the state of the Churche to be refourmed and out of the Bisshoppes speaking their mindes freely in the late Councel of Trent For we are wel assured how so euer M. Iewel telleth their tales for them they helde and mainteined the doctrine which we professe in euery condition What so euer therefore he bringeth out of them bearing any sound of wordes against the Catholike Faith as very litle it is that to that effecte he can bring though with heapes of their sayinges he hath filled his great Volume the same is either by heate of Disputation or by waie of Obiection against the Truthe after the Scholastical manner for the better opening of the Truthe or by vehemencie of zele or perhappes by humaine ouersight vttered otherwise then by them is determined in their Conclusions whereof the taking of aduantage is vndue and ouer captious or by some sleight of M. Iewel falsified and corrupted or to saie the least by vntrue cōstruction wrested to a sense by the Authour neuer intended How so euer it be they shew them selues either very blinde of iudgement or very contentious wranglers or very vaine Ianglers that allege the wordes of any Writer against the Catholique doctrine whose whole course of life shewed him to be Catholique Which is tolde vs by S. Augustine as a moste certaine rule whereby to vnderstand mennes wordes in matter of Religion And therefore thus he crieth out vpon the blindenesse of such men among whom M. Iewel maie take him selfe annumbred that wil not vnderstād mens wordes by their dedes Aug. contra Epist Parme. li. 3. cap. 4. Incredibilis est coecitas hominum omnino nescio quemadmodum credi posset esse in hominibus tāta peruersitas nisi experimento verborum suorū factorūque patesceret vsqueadeo se clausos habere cordis oculos vt cōmemorent sancta Scripturae testimonia nec intueantur in factis Prophetarū quemadmodum intelligenda sint verba Prophetarū The blindnesse of men is inoredible and certainely I wote not how I might make one beleeue that there were such frowardnesse in men onlesse by the proufe of their wordes and deedes it appeared openly that the eyes of their harte were so faste shut vp that they allege the testimonies of the holy Scripture and doo not behold in the doinges of the Prophetes how the wordes of the Prophetes are to be vnderstanded Wherefore seing the farre greater parte of M. Iewels Defence consisteth of their sayinges heaped together of whom some were either them selues or their workes being vntruly set forth after their death of suspect faith some found to fauour heretikes some professed heretikes some contrariwise knowen by publike profession of their life to be perfite Catholikes making litle accompt what they of the one side saie as being of no credite specially in matter of Faith and not doubting but these of the other side meant wel and godly how so euer their wordes by M. Iewel be abused corrupted and misconstrued in consideratiō thereof good Reader I iudged a short Treatie might suffice in this case shorte I meane in comparison of that Huge Volume fraught with so much voide impertinent and superfluous stuffe Otherwise it is longer I am wel assured then he shal euer be hable aptly truly and directly to confute I saie not but he maie do eftsones as he hath twise already donne that is to saie gather together a huge number of sayinges out of al sortes of Writers and printing this Treatie withal sende vs forth an other great booke conteining much stuffe to litle purpose and not once touching the very precise pointes wherein he is charged with foule errours and falshed But to come directly to the pointes by me thoroughly refelled and with good proufes to iustifie the same keeping him selfe in from idle ranging abroad in matters not denied or otherwise impertinent this is that I affirme he shal neuer be hable to perfourme though he write againe as muche as
Vicare of Christe aboue Lordes and kinges of this worlde and to see Princes and Emperours promise and sweare obedience vnto him Confut. fol. 178. b Harding That all Kinges and Emperours receiue their whole power at the Popes hande I neuer said it ne wrote it nor that they ought to sweare obedience and Fealtie vnto him These wordes are not to be founde neither in the places whiche you haue coted nor in the whole Confutation els where What and how great obedience Christian Princes owe vnto the Churche and vnto Christes Vicare the chiefe Gouernour of the same this is no place at large to discusse The wordes that you allege I acknowledge to be myne If that whiche there foloweth be ioyned withal the whole circumstance of my discourse declaring what is my meaning considered nothing shal seeme said beside truthe or reason After the wordes before rehersed immediatly thus it foloweth But they Confut 178. b. It is no absurditie the shepherd to be in auctoritie ouer the vvhole flocke Distinct 96. C. duâ— sunt that are the faithful subiectes of the Church of God thinke it no absurditie that the shepherd be set not only aboue the Lambes and Ewes of the Churche but also aboue the Wethers and Rammes them selues It is a very great folie for them to finde faulte with the Superioritie of the Bishop of Rome who can neuer proue that he is not the Vicare of Christe If he were not his Vicare yet being a Bishop he is aboue any temporal Prince concerning his priestly office Lo M. Iewel by these and other my wordes in that place you might haue seene had you not bent your witte maliciously to stirre her Maiestie to hatred against vs what are the thinges and causes in whiche I reporte the Princes and highest estates of the world to stoupe vnto Christes Vicare and to promise him obedience As for Homage and Fealtie suche as Vassalles rendre vnto their temporal Princes in regard of temporal Dominion whereof by sownd of your speache you seeme to meane I spake not one word Is this the charitie of your Gospel M. Iewel by such vntrue meanes to incense the Prince against vs Item there Iewel VVhereas Pope Zacharias by the consent or the conspiracie of the Nobles of France deposed Chilpericus the true natural and liege Prince of that Realme and placed Pipinus in his roume Lo saith M. Harding ye must needes Confesse that this was a diuine power in the Pope for otherwise he could neuer haue donne it Thus muche he esteemeth the dishonours and ouerthrovves of Gods anointed Confut. Fol. 182. a. Harding Nay rather Lo saith M. Harding ye must needes confesse that M. Iewel belieth him and bothe vntruly reporteth his wordes and falsifieth that Storie For truly to speake it was not Pope Zacharie that deposed Childerike Let it be weighed what I saie touching this matter answering to the obiection which the Apologie maketh against the Popes in general These be my wordes Confut. Fol. 181. b. King Childerike of Fraunce deposed and Pipine aduaunced to the croune If the Pope Zacharias deposed Childerike for so I finde him more commonly named the king of Fraunce only vpon his owne pleasure or displeasure as ye saie and placed Pipine for him can ye tel that storie and not see what a strength of auctoritie is in that See which is hable with a worde to place and displace the mightiest king in Europe With a worde I saie for I am sure you can shewe vs of no armie that he sent to execute that his wil. Is that the power of a man trowe ye to appointe Kingdomes Can the Deuil him selfe at his pleasure set vp and depose Kinges No surely And muche lesse can any member of his doo the same Remember ye what Christe said when the Iewes obiected that he did cast out Deuilles Math. 12. in the name of the prince of Deuilles Beware ye sinne not against the holy Ghoste who confesse that the Pope hath pulled downe and set vp Kinges Which thing vndoubtedly he could not doo profitably and peaceably but by the great power of God And yet did that line of Pipine The prosperitie of the line of Pipine and Charles surmounted al other VVhat did Pope zacharias in the deposing of king Childerike and Charles the great whiche the Pope did set vp florish aboue any other stocke that ye can name sence the inclination of the Romaine Empire Whiche in that transposed state of so great a Kingdome maketh no obscure Argument of heauenly approbation and diuine prouidence Neither did the Pope Zacharias depose Childerike bicause he fansied him not as ye sclaunder but only consented to loose his subiectes from bonde of othe made to him at the general and most earnest request and sute of al the Nobilitie and communaltie of the whole realme of Fraunce VVhat manner a maÌ„ Childerike vvas finding him very vnprofitable and vnmeete for the kingdome as one who being of no witte and therefore commonly named Stupidus as muche to saie a dolt was altogethâ—â— besides like a Sardanapalus geuen wholly to belly chere and to filthy loue of women Therefore in your owne wordes ye confesse a diuine power in the Pope as by whom God directeth the willes of faithful princes on the earth The more such examples ye bring the worse ye make your cause I would hier you to ease me of the labour of prouing such a notable facte You that find so great fault with Pope Zacharias for coÌ„senting after a sort to the depositioÌ„ of Childerike a beastly man an vnprofitable and vnworthy King of Fraunce why do ye allow cherish and coÌ„mend so much Christofer Goodman and Iohn Knoxe with their felowes and helpers that were together at Geneua for writing intising and doing what in their power did lye to depose the noble and lawful Quenes of England and Scotland and with the Blastes of their traiterous Trompettes to remoue them from the right of their Crownes and roial estates Saith not Goodman that Wiat did his duetie in taking Armes against Queene Marie and that al such were Traitours as deceiued him and tooke not his parte If al be rightly constrewed the Quenes Maiestie of England now being I suppose hath no great cause GoodmaÌ„s bookes named the first and secoÌ„d blaste against the monstrous regimeÌ„t of vvomen Item an other hovv to obey or disobey VVith other the like fierbraÌ„des of knoxe aÌ„d Gilbie GoodmaÌ„ in the Treatie hovv to obeie or disobeie pag. 204. either to commende them for such seditious Blastes or to like wel of you and your companions for geuing eare winde and fauour to the blowing of the same If Goodman had ben Pope of Rome as Knoxe they saie taketh vpon him to be Pope of Scotland ô Lorde what Counterblastes would ye and your good fellow Trompeters eâ— this haue blowen vp against him Long er this tâ—e whole world should haue rong of it and the Pulpites whiche ye vse as your
you are to defend it what wise man seeth not Yet bicause you thinke your selfe shamed for euer excepte you stand to it stoutely ye proceede without regard of truth or modestie And nowe seing your selfe brought to this distresse that you must either yeelde with some shame or prosecute your Chalenge with more shame ye choose rather to seeme impudent in lying and to passe al measure in craking then any thing ouerseene in that you first tooke in hande And albeit bothe I and others haue made most euident proufe hereof and the thing it selfe speaketh so muche yea and your owne very frendes see it and be right sorfor it yet forsooth to cal M. Iewel a lyer a sclaunderer a craking Chalenger by verdite of M. Iewel him selfe it was vnmannerly and vnciuilly done But sir sith you require me to be so courteous in my writinges against you why did not you your selfe in yours against me vse more courtesie Is that commendable in you whiche is reproueable in me Or els what haue you a special dispensation to say what you liste and to require al others to adore you and say Aue Rabbi Shal it be lawful for you to crie out vpon vs tolle tolle crucifige and must we sing vnto you Sanctus Sanctus Sanctus Whiles ye barke and bite must we caste a disshe of fragmentes vnto you Whiles ye play the Beare with vs must we throw honny vnto you Whiles ye play the parte of Satan must we light a candle before you S. Paule the chosen vessel of Christe teaching Titus Tit. 1. how to demeane himselfe towardes such as you are said Increpa illos durè rebuke them sharpely But what soeuer you say or doo must we needes sothe you and smooth◠you Muste we stroke you and cooxe you as men doo curst boyes after they haue done shrewd turnes If you passe al men that euer wrote in number of lyes in vanitie of boasting in the common custom of scoffing as now it hath benne prooued against you shal we feare that we seeme not to lacke the ciuilitie you speake of to cal you a lyer a boaster a scoffer What is the matter that doing so il you require to be spoken of so wel By this or no vvaie els like it is we should please M. Ievvel PErhaps whereas the Rentes of the Bishoprike of Sarisburie cause men al to belorde you your eares being of long tyme accustomed to suche honorable greetinges you looke to be honoured at our handes as you are of your poore hungry Craftesmen that hauing learned to reade Englishe pretily sue vnto you for Ministerships And then whereas you lye impudently folowing them we muste saie were it not that your good Lordship saith so verely we should haue thought otherwise And whereas you falsifie your testimonies we must put the fault in your Spectacles When you hew and mangle the Doctours so fowly that al the worlde may see it we must beare you in hande that when your Lordship wrote so the booke was not at hande When you serue vs with a point of Scurrilitie we muste saye O howe it becommeth your L. to be meary When you shoote at randon diuerting altogether from the special point that is to be answered vnto impertinent matter we must say your L. shooteth faire though somewhat wide of the marke When by no witte nor cunning you are hable to make good your Chalenge yet then we must say that your L. lacketh no woordes and hath geuen a good Push towardes it To be shorte for these be the special pointes for whiche you accuse my vtterance of vncourtesie when you speake big and Goliathlike vpbraid al the hoste of God to witte the whole Catholique Churche of these laste thousand yeres what must we doo but to shew token of feare 1. Reg. 17. as the Israelites vnder king Saul did and geue backe that you may boast and crake alone Truly touching your dignitie what accompte so euer you make of your selfe I take you but for M. Iewel Bacheler of Diuinitie sometime person of Sunningwel betwen Oxford and Abington And that is the greatest degree that euer I knewe you called vnto If the Quenes Highnes of her special fauour towardes you haue geuen you the rentes of the Bishoprike of Sarisburie you are the more bounde to thanke her and to consider what accompte you haue to make of it It is not money that can set you one steppe higher in ecclesiastical degree A Bishop you are not I am right sure neither can al the Kinges and Quenes of the worlde nor al the Parlamentes of England by any their owne onely power and auctoritie make you a lawful and a true Bishop The same I tolde you in my Confutation of your Apologie whiche point you haue not sufficiently answered as it shal appeare Yet was it very behoofful for you to haue fully answered But I beare with you as therein not lacking good wil but habilitie Study for it so long as you wil you shal neuer be hable to make it good that you are yet a right Bishop Therefore in this respecte you ought to beare with my bolde vtterance the more taking you for no greater man in right then you were when you subscribed in Oxford to the Real Presence to the Sacrifice of the Masse and to those other pointes that now you impugne so busily In very deede this muche I confesse that in case you were a Bishop though an vnworthy Bishop yea a wicked Bishop yet for the dignitie of that Vocation and for the Orders sake I should and would reuerence you accordingly Act. 23. Whereas it was tolde S. Paule after he had reuiled Ananias that he was the high Bishop he reuoked his worde and submitted him selfe to that was written Thou shalt not curse the gouernour of thy people Exod. 22. Whereby he doth vs to vnderstande that had he knowen he had benne no Bishop at al he woulde not haue reuoked his worde that in your opinion is vnciuile and vncourteous but haue let it stand in force You being as il a man as euer Ananias was and hauing done muche more spite vnto the Churche of Christe and more dishonour vnto God then euer he did beare with me for speaking truly and ernestly without flatterie Act. 23. The example of S. Paule saying to Ananias Thou painted wal not knowing him to be the high Bishop and yet occupying a more honorable roome then you are yet called vnto leadeth me not greatly to repent of any of those wordes spoken of you or of your felowes the Sacramentaries and Protestantes of our time whiche to impaire my credite you haue culled out of my Bookes and laid together in one heape And what so euer I haue written or said that toucheth your person specially and irketh you I take God to record therein I respected not M. Iewel the priuate man but M. Iewel the publique enemie of Christes Churche the professed Impugner of the Truth and Catholique Religion
the despiser and prophaner of the holy Sacramentes the breaker of vnitie the enemie of God And for my warrant in so doing I haue the examples whiche here I laid forth before of the Prophetes of the Apostles specially of S. Paule S. Iude and S. Peter of S. Iohn the Baptiste of our Sauiour Christe him selfe Yea I say furthermore what is that sharpenes of wordes whiche in this case I meane when the auctoritie of the Councels and holy Fathers is so lightly contemned when Gods holy Mysteries are so turkishly prophaned when the Churche is so falsly sclaundered when vnitie is so with most certaine danger of Christian soules broken when the whole state of the Catholique Religion is so wickedly ouerthrowen briefly when God him selfe is so horribly blasphemed In this case I say what sharpenes of wordes is there which iuste griefe of a Christian harte and godly zeale causeth not to seeme not onely excusable but also laudable yea necessary yea with praise and reward to be honoured If when the Children of Israel defyled them selues in Fornication with the wemen of Moab God in anger said to Moyses take al the chiefe of the people Num. 25. and hang them vp in Gibettes against the Sunne that my wrath may be turned from Israel where there is so muche bothe bodily and spiritual fornication yea sacrilegious Incest not only coÌ„mitted but permitted but taught but couÌ„seled and exhorted and for some parte commaunded against the honour and wil of God our Moyseses and Aarons the true Gouernours withholden from executing their dewtie shal it not become vs whose hartes God toucheth at least with wordes to shewe the griefe of our mindes and with conuenient sharpenes of speache to rebuke the heinous wickednes that is committed and so for so muche as in vs lyeth to reuoke Gods people from it If Phinees being nor high Priest nor magistrate but only as yet a priuate man Ibidem was highly praised and rewarded of God for his zeale in killing one of the Israelites for whooredom committed with an harlot of Madian to stay Gods wrath shal we seme to deserue blame for vttering onely wordes in reproufe of so farre more heinous crimes if not to stay God from his iuste wrath nor the offenders from their wickednes yet the people of God from the like example What you are very nice M Iewel that finde so great faulte with me onely for certaine sharpe wordes bestowed in reprehension of your and your companions so diuers and so greeuous enormities You are not taken vp for halting as they say pardy Halting may haue some excuse of humaine infirmitie This that is reprehended in you is not only halting it is falling downe right Neither are you so muche to be rebuked for your owne wilful falling downe but muche more for that you studie and labour al that you can to pul al others downe into the pitte that your selfe are fallen into Now in this case the pitte being so dangerous is it not wel and dewtifully done to geue warning to Gods people to beware of it Al that I writte is for the peoples sake For with you and such as you are I haue litle hope to doo any good Suche ones the Apostle aduertiseth vs Tit. 1. not to deale withal Now how shal the people be dewly warned to beware whose senses be more liuely in worldly then in spiritual thinges excepte the dulnes of their minde be stirred vp with the feare of great peril And how can the greatnes of this peril be signified vnto them but with wordes of some vehemencie As for example If I should say to one that goeth forth by night sir the way you shal passe through is vneeuen by reason of litle holes and furrowes And you take not heede you may happen to stumble or perhappes to wrentche your foote Vpon this warning wil he be so careful how to go as if I say thus If you loue your life beware how you go that way for there be great pittes and dungeons that you shal hardly escape and if you fal you are sure to breake your necke The case is like in this behalfe M. Iewel The people be alwaies going foreward and for lacke of knowledge they passe forth as it were by night Now so farre as we are persuaded the way they go in at this day in England to be perilous as that whiche through Schismes and Heresies and other manifold wickednes thereof ensewing leadeth them to euerlasting damnation should we not deceiue them if we tolde them that Dungeons were but furrowes that deepe pittes were but stumbling holes and that there were no great Danger in the way For this cause therefore M. Iewel that the people of God might be the more a fraid to heare you and beleeue you and to folow your damnable waies I thought it good and expedient in writing against you and against the heresies of our time to vse shâ—rpâ—r wordes and speache of more vehemencie then otherwise I would haue done if I had written to you priuatly or so as knowing that my bookes should haue come to no mannes handes but to yours I knew you would wince and kicke at it But spare not litle care I therefore so that by my labour profite redounde to Christian People For what cause in writing my Confutation of the Apologie I vsed suche verdure of stile as might seme not ouer flatte but tempred with conuenient sharpenesse BEfore I began to set my penne to the paper I considered wel with my selfe what it was to stirre vp such Hurnettes and to prouoke such Waspes to anger Touched I them once were it neuer so gentilly I knew they would straight way flee at my face and buzze about me and that possibly I should not saue my selfe from their stinging Yet hauing a good harte and being right willing for the Truthes sake and for the Defence of Christes Churche to sustaine that Smarte what so euer it should be I tooke aduise with my selfe how to tempre my stile so as bothe Gods cause might seeme sufficiently defended and they not iustly offended Three vvaies of vvriting against an Aduersarie Whereas then there be three wayes of writing against such Aduersaries of the Churche vsed diuersly of the Fathers vpon diuers occasions of time place person and matter of which the one is colde softe meeke lowly and demure an other hote rough sterne and vehement the third tempred with a conuenient mediocritie betwen both though at the firste in my Answer to the Chalenge I inclined more vnto the softe and gentle waye afterward in my Confutation of the Apologie and in my Reioindre I chose the meane that by the one extreme I might not seeme to worke vpon choler and to seeke reuenge rather then Defence of Gods cause by the other to be too abiecte and to shew lesse confidence in our cause to thincouragement of such cockish Aduersaries Now commeth me M. Iewel and medling litle with the matter it selfe and
hath not iustified these three Vntruthes To shew a thing to be doubtful is not to clere it of al Vntruth The .13 and .14 vntruthes Lyra in Daniel cap. 14. As for the other two Vntruthes where he reporteth Lyra to saie that many Miracles are wrought in the Church by the Priestes and their Companions to mocke the people notwithstanding any thing conteined in his Replie they remaine vndischarged and appeare as impudent lyes and falsifiynges as before How falsly he demeaneth him selfe in that pretensed saying of Lyra it shal appeare to him that readeth my Reioinder fol. 8. b. c. The .15 Vnthruth The .15 Vntruth is that he ascribeth the briefe Commentaries vpon S. Paules Epistles printed with S. Hieromes workes vnto S Hierome which are wel knowen and by Erasmus whom he so muche esteemeth confessed not to be S. Hieromes M. Iewels Replie hereto is this They are printed saith he emong other S. Hieromes workes and are commonly knowen by his name but by any other Authors name they are not knowen Bastard vvorkes printed among the true vvorkes assundrie Authors If that were a good Argument to proue them to be S. Hieromes bicause they are printed emong S. Hieromes workes then were it easy to proue a number of treaties to be S. Hieromes S. Augustines S. Ambroses S. Chrysostomes S. Cyprians and other auncient Doctours of the Churche whiche are wel knowen not to be theires and M. Iewel him selfe would make no smal triumph against vs if we should allege any testimonie out of suche vnder the name of the Doctours emong whose workes they be printed For who is so simple that cannot thus reason as for example the Rule of Nonnes it is printed emong other S. Hieromes workes Regula Monacharum Inter opera HieroÌ„ Toâ—â— 4. ergo it is S. Hieromes Item the treatie of the Inuention or finding of the Head of S. Iohn Baptiste is printed with S. Cyprians workes ergo it is S. Cyprians By this Argument you maie proue that the foolish epistle written to Abra S. Hilaries pretensed dawghter in the authoritie of whiche epistle you put great confidence for the defence of Priestes Marriages was S. Hilaries bicause it is pâ—inted with S. Hilaries workes So might the vnperfite worke written by some Heretique by Maximinus Arianus as some thinke vpon S. Matthew printed with S. Chrysostomes workes â—e auouched to be S. Chrysostomes and so shuld we make that holy and Catholike Doctor an Author of sundry great heresies The like Argument might be made for proufe and legitimation of sundrie other bastard Treatises which to father vpon those learned Fathers emong whose workes they are printed and be not knowen by other Authours names were great iniurie I dare boldly say M. Iewel him selfe how so euer he thought good thus to shifte his handes of an Vntruth laid to his charge would be loth to allow this for a good Argument in his Aduersarie For if he would he is not ignorans what a comber he should haue to answer vnto thinges that out of suche writinges might against him be alleged Hitherto he hath not discharged him selfe of those fifteen the least Vntruthes that be in my Reioinder noted against him out of his very first Diuision of his Replie to the first Article What a doo he should haue to iustifie the rest with which he standeth charged by me and by other menne who haue dubbed him Lorde and Author of a thousand moe Vntruthes by his feeble Answer vnto these fewe of least appearance it is soone conceiued Now lette vs see how he iustifieth the Vntruthes of the Apologie M. Iewels pretensed Iustification of certaine Vntruthes of the Apologie with the Confutation of the same M. Ievvel the apologie Paâ—â—â—â— cap. 4. Diuis 2. The Councel of Carthage saith he prouided that no â—isshop should be called either the highest Bisshop or the chief Priest Vntruthes noted out of the Apologie The first Vntruth To this he forgeth an Answer in my name and addeth vnto it suche woordes as whereby he thought to set forth vnto his reader a shewe of some lightnes of my parte whereas I answer him in deede otherwise as it may be sene in my Confutation part 2. cap. 4. fol. 53. c. For answer this may be here and is in effecte said there Whereas the Apologie hath thus Also the Councel of Carthage did expressely prouide that no Bishop should be called either the highest Bishop or chiefe Priest To this I saie that it is false and that the Councel of Carthage hath not so but otherwise It speaketh of Primates only and not generally of al Bishops and as it appeareth of the Primates only of Afrike And therefore the Bishop of Rome by that Councel is not depriued of his auncient Title of Summus Sacerdos This is more largely declared in my Confutation in the place aboue coted To this M. Iewel maketh his Replie in this wise The wordes of the Councel alleged by Gratian are these Primasedis Episcopus M. Ievvel allegeth Gratians vvordes for the vvordes of the Councel of Charthage non apelletur Princeps Sacerdotum vel Summus Sacerdos vel aliquid huiusmodi sed tantùm primae Sedis Episcopus Vniuersalis autem nec etiam Romanus Pontifex appelletur Why doo you allege Gratian M. Iewel whereas you might allege the Councel it selfe from whence Gratian tooke these wordes And so you founde the place thus coted in the end of the Chapter before Distin 99 Prouincia Item ex Concilio Africanâ— 3. ca. 26. By this your shamelesse falshood appeareth For if ye had gonne vnto that Councel it selfe ye should not haue found these wordes at al neither in the Greeke for it is extant in Greeke nor in the Latine these wordes I say Vniuersalis autem nec etiam Romanus Pontifex appelletur Which are no more a parte of that .26 Canon of the third Africane Councel then those other wordes are there likewise folowing immediatly Vnde Pelagius secundus omnibus Episcopis They are put in by Gratian him selfe whereby as his manner is he fortelleth the reader what foloweth in the next chapter So this Vntruth is doubled with an other Vntruth and remaineth to M. Iewel as that to whiche he shal neuer be hable to answere Of this I shal haue occasion to treate more at large hereafter I wish the Reader for a further discouer of M. Iewels falshoode to peruse what there I shal saie M. Ievvel Apologie part 2. cap. 12. Item Calixtus saith he decreed The .2 Vntruth that Consecration being finished al the people should communicate c. To this I answer that it was the Decree not of Calixtus but of Anacletus and that the request of receiuing the coÌ„munion the CoÌ„secration being done perteined to the Priestes Deacons Subdeacons and other Clerkes attending vpon the Bishop celebrating the Sacrifice vpon a Solemne Feast and not vnto al the people Howbeit that the people did then commonly receiue euery daie whiche
of the matter laie in any one of them But for that natural reason should partely declare to the ignorant who are not hable to conceiue deeper Argumentes that the Order whiche our Sauiour leafte in his Churche the same to be ruled by one general Head doth so sensibly sticke in euery mannes conceite that vnderstandeth the force of any good natural reason that you or any of your felowes with any heapes of impertinent sentences of al sortes of Writers with whiche you fournish vs out bookes of great bulke shal neuer be hable to prooue the contrarie Disorder not 〈◊〉 reasons M. Iewel take them as my selfe haue sette 〈…〉 marke what force they are of when they be linked in one Then ouerthrowe them if you can I am assured you can not The other three reasons to the which you say ye answered in your Replie are so by M. Stapleton returned vpon you againe and your whole answere reprooued that the worlde now seeth what smal worship ye haue wonne thereby I would aduise you to beginne againe and labour for a more sufficient answere elles you may be sure that menne wel geue you ouer for one that promiseth much and perfourmeth nothing Iewel Pag. 100. I graunt Dissension and quarelles be the sooner ended vvhen al thinges be put ouer to one man so that the same man maie liue for euer and stil continue in one minde and neuer alter Harding M. Iewel alloweth no one man to be ruler except he may liue for euer and continue in one minde which is fonde Liue for euer what a blinde answere is this The .11 Chapt. I praie you Sir did Moyses when he had the gouernement of the people of Israel make an ende of no Dissensions and quarelles emong them I weene you wil say yeas And yet he liued not emonge them for euer pardy Did not Iosue so Did not Samuel Did not Dauid Did not Salomon and others Yet I trowe you wil not say they liued for euer Doth not euery Prince dailie within his owne Realme so Euery Bisshop within his owne Diocese the Archebishop within his owne Prouince And yet ye knowe they liue not for euer Heard euer any man a fonder answere made then this The first foure General Councelles ended diuers matters of contention and yet they that were there liued not for euer For very shame cal backe this vnsauery answere againe or at least put it out of your booke at your nexte Impression if the first finde good vtterance and lye not vpon you handes Iewel Ibidem And stil continevv in one minde and neuer alter Harding That is the very cause perhappes why Archeheretiques can make an ende of no Dissension bicause their mindes doo daily 2. Tim. 3. and hourely alter as S. Paule saieth of certaine curious wemenne that were alwaies learning alwaies talking and babling of Scripture and neuer drawing to any good ende neuer atteining to the knowledge of truthe Princes bounde by M. Ievvel to continue stil in one minde You haue bounde Kinges and Princes very hard to continew stil in one minde and neuer to alter so that if one haue cause to warre against the other after warre once entred they may neuer intreate of peace They muste continew stil in one minde and neuer alter They muste keepe so precise and so holesome a diet that they maie liue for euer If they make any statute that is good and necessarie to be kepte for some one time perhappes for the space of v. or vj. yeres afterwarde when the Continuance of suche statutes shal be founde to breede greate disorder and inconuenience to the Realme it shal not be lawful for them to repeale them bicause M. Iewel hath bounde them to continew in the minde they were and neuer to alter For if they once alter how so euer and wherein so euer it be dissensions and quarelles saith he can not by them be appeased and ended and therefore good gouernment shal faile Iewel Pag. 100. But oftentimes one Pope is founde contrarie to an other Harding Answere to the contrarities in certaine Popes reprehended by M. Iewel and to the violating of Pope Formosus dead Carkasse c. Not so ofte as one king is founde contrarie to an other The .12 Chapt. Read the Stories you shal find it true But Lorde what a doo ye make here about the Contrarieties of certaine Popes and yet you shal neuer finde one Pope contrarie to an other in any article of our Faith as heauy a Maister as you are vnto them But why doo you not cal to minde what varietie of opinions ye haue had emong your selues fith ye brought your Gospel first into the Realme Remember within so shorte a time how many sortes of Communions haue benne seene how many sectes haue risen emong your selues How farre the Puritanes who haue wel nigh tried out the Quintessence of your Gospel Puritanes and perhappes at their nexte proceding wil vtterly denie God how farre I saie they are alienated and diuided from you and that not only for Square cappes and side gownes but also for other matters that in their time shal be reueled I wil saie nothing here of the Arians Anabaptistes Libertines and Atheistes who since the first planting of your Gospel haue crepte into the realme and now swarme in diuers places there vncontrolled who if they had the ful libertie ye preached when ye first laboured to supplante the Catholiques were wel like shortely to set you also beside the stoole But they for that their time is not yet come must doo as they maie and be passed ouer as not seene that al the charitable blowes of your fyrie Gospel might light vpon the Catholiques headdes Your manner alwaies is in the allegation of histories as also of other thinges to adde somwhat of your owne as you doo in telling vs how Pope Steuen vnburied his predecessour Pope Formosus â—abellicus falsified by M. Ievvel Sabellicus Ennead 9. lib. 1. where you reporte that he defaced and mangled his naked carkasse The historie maketh mention of no suche mangling and defacing of his Carkasse onely it sheweth that the forefingers of his right hande whiche had benne annointed and consecrated were cut of and that the Pontifical garmentes wherein Popes were wonte of an olde custome to be buried were taken of from his corps A man that had heard of defacing and mangling a naked carkasse would haue thought that the carkasse had benne hewed in peeces or otherwise spitefully mangled Leaue leaue that il propertie for shame M. Iewel Adde not diminishe not tel stories as you finde them and so shal you geue your Aduersarie lesse aduantage against you It is maruaile it came not into your head by diligent searche to finde out a dissension emong the Popes bicause some of them loued rather to eate fishe then fleshe some vsed to rise sooner in the morning some later some were of stature higher some lower And least your storie should be vnrequitted it were
wel done of you to take some litle paines to searche out who of you was the first author of that famous lie against the Catholique Bishoppes The false bruite of king HeÌ„ries body taken avvaie that to bringe them in displeasure with the Quenes Maiestie whiche now is reported that they had taken awaie kinge Henrie the eightes body whiche matter after great bruite spred aboute the Realme after that it came to be searched was tried false and forged and the body was founde safe where it had benne laied But the body of king Henrie the sixth that holy man King HeÌ„rie the sixth his body taken vp and consumed was not founde in his place but said to haue benne burnt by certaine I wil spare their worshippes of Catholique religion I warrant you There is a wiued Superintendent in England that if he be asked can tel tidinges how these thinges were conueied But al thinges ye doo are wel donne and worthie of praise Yet what an impudent lye was that deuised against the Catholique Bishoppes And what an hainous deede was it to violate the Graue to take vp a good Kinges Body and to burne it or otherwise to consume it Yet bicause they that are of your fecte did it it must be praised though it be donne against al good Order Religion and humanitie To be shorte as you are not hable to defende al thinges as wel donne that ye and your felowes haue donne euen so we haue not taken in hande to defende the innocencie of euery Pope in al actes of his life nor yet to take the Popes wil and pleasure to be our staie in al doubteful cases as you impute vnto vs. But the Popes aduised and mature determination folowing the aduise of his learned Doctours assembled together for discussion of weightie matters in general Councelles whiche is an other thing then the Popes wil and pleasure whiche your scoffing head would haue to be our staie we take to be a sufficient resolution of al doubtful cases that are necessarie for vs to knowe Iewel Pag. 100. Hovv be it this I trovve is not the readiest vvaie to procure peace and to mainteine vnitie in the Churche Harding Vnitie is best mainteined by the gouerment of one general Head The .13 Chapt. If the hauing of one king or Prince be the readiest waie to procure peace and mainteine vnitie in worldly matters of a Realme why should not the hauing of one general Head be the readiest waie to procure peace and vnitie in the Churche If that be not the waie you leaue vs none at al. If euery man take that Religion that liketh best his owne phantasie as many doo in diuers partes of the worlde already who shal cal them backe to the true Catholique Religion Iewel And therefore Gregorie saith of Iohn the Bishop of Constantinople that claimed to him selfe this vniuersal povver c. Harding What neede we bestowe moe wordes about this matter of Iohn of Constantinople Iohn the ambitious Bishop of Constantinople claimed the title of vniuersal Bishop M. Stapleton hath answered fully vnto it This Iohn claimed to him selfe the title of vniuersal Bishop meaning thereby that there was no Bishop in the worlde but he whiche title in deede S. Gregorie in that sense coulde not brooke but tooke it to be arrogant and proude And we saie as we haue alwaies said that no Pope euer claimed the title of vniuersal Bishop in that sense that there ought none others to be Bishoppes but he And yet S. Gregorie claimed the right title of the Primacie apperteining to his See in his answere made to Mauricius the Emperour as Platina recordeth And S. Chrysostome Chrysos in Matth. homil 55. in illa verba Ioh. 21. Sequere me homil 87. Aug. de vera religione cap. 45. as we said before doth not spare to tel al Christian menne that to Peter was committed the Charge and Cure of the whole worlde Iewel For although al the vvorlde either vvould or could geue eare and credite to one man yâ—t vvere not that therefore alvvaies Christian vnitie S. Augustine saith Pride it selfe hath a certaine desire of vnitie and of vniâ—ersal povver Harding What should moue you to allege S. Augustine De vera religione against the vnitie of the whole Churche obeying their vniuersal head Did S. Augustine speake any thing of the Pope in that place What so'euer affection there be of Pride or Singularitie in the ruler it toucheth not others but disgraceth his personal actes onely I meane in respect of his owne person not of others who doo but their duetie in obeying what he teacheth or biddeth being their general gouernour or head And in that duetie doing what soeuer the rulers affection is in gouerning they keepe Christian vnitie iâ— Faithe Matth. 23. and Doctrine Vpon the chaire of Moyses the Scribes and Pharisees haue sitte al thinges what so euer they tel you doo ye saith Christe If Christe bad vs to obey the Scribes and the Pharisees as long as they sate in Moyses chaire although their life agreed not with their doctrines what can the Popes il affection of pride hurte the vnitie of Christian menne who doo their duetie in obeying his lawful power Iewel Pag. 100. An other of M. Hardinges reasons is this The Churche labouring here in earth must resemble the Churche of the Saintes triumphing in heauen But in heauen God onely is the gouernoure ouer the vvhole Therfore in the Churche beneathe the Pope likevvise must needes be gouernour ouer the vvhole Thus God must be rated to gouerne aboue and the Pope beneath and so as one some time saide Diuisum imperium cum Ioue Caesar habet Harding You falsifie my wordes and reason my terme is not Must but Meete Shewe it not to be meete Leaue you skoffing and come to the matter Euery good thing is the worse that cometh into your handes Iewel Pag. 100. This is a valiant kinde of argument It holdeth from heauen to earth from angelles to menne from God to the Pope Harding Wel skoffed M. Iewel It was not for naught that the Prophete Dauid in the description of a blessed man saith emong other thinges Psal 1. that he sitteth not in the chaire of Mockers by whiche worde Heretiques are signified which in deede are very skoffers and mockers of al good thinges And weene you good Sir â–ª that an argument maie not holde from heauen to earth Thy wil be donne in earth as it is in heauen Vpon these wordes if you list Matth. 6. maie ye not frame an argument that shal holde from heauen to earth Now from Angelles to menne Videte ne contemnatis vnum ex his pusillis dico enim vobis Matth. 18. quia Angeli eorum in coelis semper vident faciem patris mei qui in coelu est See ye despise not one of these litle ones For I saie vnto you that their Angelles in heauen doo alwaies see the face of my Father whiche
whiche beare the name of Christians And to the Apostles Christe said Matt. 28. I am with you al daies vntil the worldes ende If he be with them til the ende they likewise are in the worlde til the worldes ende But they liued not so long in this worlde therefore it is meant that from age to age and from man to man Christe will haue alwayes some to sitte in the Chaieres and Seates of his Apostles by ordinarie Succession vntil the worldes ende Of this Succession Dauid in the person of Christ spake in spirite saying to the Church For thy Fathers Psal 44. Sonnes are borne vnto thee Thou shalt ordeine them the Chiefe Gouernours ouer al the earth The Church answereth I shal be mindeful o Lorde of thy name in euery Generation and Generation therefore the peoples shal geue praise and thankes to thee for euer and from age to age .. So that the cause why the Churche continueth are the Gouernours by God appointed vnto it and as the Churche continueth from age to age so do they gouerne from age to age For the Visible Flocke of shepe can not long lacke their Visible shepeheard at any time but that the Wolues wil enter in and disperse them a sunder Iewel VVhen Christ beganne to refourme their abuses and errours they said to him Luc. 20. Mark 11. Beda in Lucam li. 5. cap. 80. by vvhat povver doest thou these thinges and vvho gaue the this authoritie vvhere is thy Succession Vpon vvhiche vvordes Beda saith They vvould haue the people vnderstand for that he had no solenne Succession that al that he did vvas of the Deuil Harding See vvhat cōueiāce M. Ievv vseth to helpe his cause Scarse one line hath passed your handes into the whiche you haue nor conueied of your owne head the worde Succession Whereas neither S. Luke nor S Mathew nor S. Marke nor S. Paule nor S. Hierome nor the Pharisees nor Bede whom you allege vsed that worde at al. But to make your tale sound against Succession M. Ievv falsifieth al his testimonies you driue al to that point and thereby you falsifie euery place that you bring as euery man shal finde who doth conferre the matter with the Originals and so al your Defence standeth vpon fialsified Authorities But our cause God be praised for it is so strong Christes true Succession that we neede not to care though al that were true whiche you allege For albeit the Pharisees would not harken to Christes Succession yet in deede he Succeded lineally to al the Kinges and Patriarkes and thereby to the Priestes also of the best Order to wit of the Lawe of nature and not of the Law of Moyses whiche was an inferiour Lawe in respecte of that of Nature Christ therefore had not onely a most perfite Succession which is described in the Gospel from Adam til Ioseph the husbande of the Virgin Marie but also with that his Succession he stopped al the mouthes of his Enemies For thus he said to them VVhat thinke you of Christe that is of your Messias whom you looke for Matt. 22. VVhose Sonne is he They say to him the Sonne of Dauid Christ saith to them Psal 109. How then doth Dauid cal him Lorde in spirite saying The Lord hath said to my Lord sit at my right hand vntil I put thy enemies as a foote stoole vnder thy feete If then Dauid cal him Lorde how is he his Sonne And no man was hable to answer him a worde Neither durst any manne after that daye aske him any moe questions Here it is first to be noted that the Scribes and Pharisees knew Christ to haue a Succession from Dauid For his Sonne they said he must be Therefore M. Iewel in making the Pharisees to acknowledge no Succession of his hath corrupted the texte of the Gospel and vttered a great Vntruthe The Pharisees knew that Christe should succede in the very beste line but they would not attende nor consider how that Succession was now brought to passe in the Sonne of Marie who being of the howse of Dauid had miraculously brought forth Christe the perfite ende of the Lawe So likewise M. Iewel knoweth that the Churche of Christe must needes haue a perpetual Succession but he wil not consider how it is preserued chiefely in the Chaier of Peter Ioan. 21. to whom aboue al others the sheepe of Christ were committed Wel Christe then geuing the Iewes to vnderstand that he succeeded in the line of Dauid Christ not only the Sonne of Dauid but also the Sône of God would haue had them farther to consider that he also was the sonne of God and so shewed that he who was Dauids Sonne was also called the Lord of Dauid his Sonne by flesh his Lord by Godhed which thing did put them al to silence Euen so that weake mortal and some time miserable and sinful man whome sitting at Rome M. Iewel despiseth when he heareth him to be according to the gifte of God the Vicare of Christes loue as S. Ambrose calleth him in feeding his shepe Ambr. in cōmment in Luc. c. 24. and the Successour of the chiefe Apostle he is surely astoined at it and would be put to silence if he were not worse then a Pharisee For admitting that the Pope were not S. Peters Successour but onely one of the lowest Bishoppes of Christes Churche yet who would not woonder to see him keepe his Succession so notably fiften hundred yeres together wheras al the Patriarkes and thousandes of Bishops besides are so mangled and so brought to nought But now if wee adde hereunto that the same is euen by our enemies confession and euer was the first See how muche more ought they to woonder at the special prouidence of God in that behalfe Therefore euen as it was miraculous that the line of Dauid was so notably preserued in so many changes and captiuities of the Iewes right so may we say of the Bishoppes of Rome in suche sorte as smaller thinges doo imitate the greater and may in their manner be compared to the greater Iewel Cyrillus frameth the Pharisees vvordes in this sorte Cyrillus in Cathen in Luc. 20. Thou Being of the tribe of Iuda and therefore hauing no right by Succession vnto the Priesthood takest vpon thee the office that is committed vnto vs. Harding Here againe you adde these wordes hauing no right by Succession vnto the Priesthode of your owne head M. Ievv falsifieth Cyrillus by adding vvordes of his ovvne Howbeit euen there Cyrillus sheweth that Christe had right by Succession which you should not haue conceeled had you dealt truly For there it foloweth Sed si nouisses ô Pharisee scripturas recoleres quòd hic est Sacerdos qui secundùm ordinem Melchisedech offert Deo in se credentes per cultum qui legem transcendit O thou Pharisee Christe had right also by successiō if thou haddest knowen the Scriptures thou wouldest remember that this
stuffe in some of your Germaine gatherers or elles it was ministred to you by some of your Cōministers if not by your blind lawier whose help you haue bought with a pece of an Archdeaconrie For you beganne not I suppose to studie the Canonistes and the gloses of the Law before you occupied the place of a Bishop if then at the least you did But how soeuer that be your memory might haue ben better bestowed thē in keping in stoare such a toie The Canonistes meane that the Pope as being the highest iudge is not bound to the obseruation of any thing in the law whiche is only Ceremonial so that he may dispense with those maters when he seeth cause and may with his only worde promote a man to the authoritie of a Bishop the omission of any Ceremonie notwithstanding But they speake only of rites and Ceremonies such as I suppose you your selfe would not or should not sticke vpon when either necessitie or vniuersal profite should require a thing to be spedily donne As for any point necessary to the Sacrament of holy Orders the Pope may not omit in any wise Iewel Pag. 129. Panor de cōstitutiō translato And Abbate Panormitane moueth a doubte vvhether the Pope by the fulnesse of his povver may depriue al the Bishoppes of the vvorlde at one time But thus they say that care not greatly vvhat they say Harding When you had only said that Panormitane moued the doubte you conclude with thus they say as though he had said that in deede the Pope might depriue al the Bishoppes in the worlde at once Certainely the mouing of the doubt sheweth him not to say it For many doubtes be moued you know pardy not to the ende men should thinke that al may be donne whereof by learned men a question is moued but that they may the better carie away the answer So question is moued emong the Scholemen An Deus sit whether God be not that any man at al doubteth thereof but to see how the doubte might be resolued if any man were so mad as to moue it Once it is certaine that the Pope can not depriue al Bishoppes For although they be vnder him specially if they do amisse or nede any helpe yet they are as truly Bishops as he is and are the Successours of the Apostles who knowing the Primacie to belong vnto S. Peter did yet make Bishops by Gods ordinance where so euer they thought it expedient Aaron was the chiefe emong al the Priestes and Leuites yet he could not therfore depriue al the Leuites and Priestes And euen so your owne Panormitane whom you make to doubte concludeth with these wordes Quod si papa vellet c. Translato ex de Constitut non posset remouere omnes Episcopos cum repraesentent omnes Apostolos If the Pope would he could not remoue al Bishops for as muche as they represent al the Apostles Cal you this a doubting when he so plainely determineth against that for which you alleage his doubting Iewel Verely Nilus a greeke vvriter saith thus Nilus d◠primatu Rom. Pontificie The Bishop of Constantinople doth order the Bishop of Cesarea and Other Bishops vnder him But the Bishop of Rome doth neither Order the Bishop of Constantinople nor any other Metropolitane Harding It neither much skilleth what Nilus doth say Nilus a late vvriter and mainteiner of the Greekes Schisme whose authoritie is so litle worth being a late mainteiner of the Schisme of the Grecians and yet though his saying were true it skilleth also as litle bicause it speaketh of a matter of facte and not of power For he sayth not that the Bishop of Rome is not hable or hath not power to order some Metropolitane but only that he doth not so meaning that he vseth not so to doo And if the not doing proue any impotencie or vnablenes to doo it then it maie be said Christe is not hable to ordeine a Deacon bicause we read not that euer he did so by his owne mouth Actor 6. or handes For Deacons were ordeined by his Apostles after his Ascension But albeit the Pope vseth not to Order Metropolitanes with his owne handes yet Nilus I trow meant not but that he was of power to doo it or if he was so folish as to thinke so yet you M. Iewel should not in that behalfe beare the bable with him as who confesse that he was euer as great a Patriarke and much more auncient then the Bishop of Constantinople was so that the Bishop of Constantinople can not be able to doo that which the Pope also can not doo To be short you that can cal so many gloses to your remembrance could you not remember that as Liberatus Liberatus in breuiari◠ca. 21. recordeth Anthenius the Bishop of Constantinople being yet aliue but deposed for heresie Agapetus that good Bishop of Rome consecrated and ordered with his owne handes Mennas who professed the Catholike faith making him Bishop of Constantinople in stede of the other heretical Bishop Are you then so farre to seeke in your Logike as not to know that if the Bishop of Rome did lawfully once order the Bishop of Constantinople that stil he were of authoritie and power so to doo if nede were Iewel But hereof I haue spoken more at large in my former Replie to M. Harding Harding But thereof you are confuted more at large by M. Stapleton in his Returne of Vntruthes vpon you and yet could you dissemble the matter as though your fourth Article and namely that part whereof here you speake were not founde as ful of Vntruthes as of Allegations Iewel Pag. 129. Certainely S. Cyprian vvilleth that Sabinus being lavvfully elected Cyprian Lib. 1. Epist 4. and consecrate Bishop in Spaine should continevve Bishop stil yea although Cornelius being then Bishop of Rome vvould not confirme him Harding By this a man may know what a Dodger you are and whence your great bookes procede Verely from certaine heretical Notebookes made by some Grāmarians or Scholemasters of Germanie For alwaies your allegations and reportes come out after the same sorte If once they conteined an open lye being neuer so often repeated they shal stil conteine it and reason For they were alwayes written out of one lying fountaine In the Returne Artic. 4. Fol. 127. M. Stapleton had told you of this very matter before He shewed that your note booke is false It was not Pope Cornelius but Pope Steuen who would haue restored Basilides to his bishoprike against Sabinus who was newly elected in Spaine But the staye why Pope Steuens Decree stoode not was only for lacke of true information in Basilides appeale made to Rome Now reason and lawe sheweth that when a thing is not done only vpon a certaine cause that cause ceasing the thing should be right wel done Sabinus might continue Bishop not withstanding that Pope Steuen wrote against him onely bicause Basilides for whom the Pope wrote
al to be folowed in your deedes For he that dissenteth from you Doctrine is either an Heretique or a Schismatique These wordes being wel and duely considered of I reporte me to thine indifferent iudgement discrete Reader what M. Iewel can seme to any wise man to haue wonne by Iohannes Sarisburiensis He accuseth the vices of the Romaine Clergie and of some Popes them selues We also accuse the same Their euil deedes be not to be folowed saith he We saie the same and praie God to amende them Scribes and Pharisees sate in the Church of Rome said the people in his time Were it true yet were they to be obeied touching doctrine and to be beleeued bicause they sate in the Chaire of Peter as Christ cōmaunded the Scribes and Pharisees of the Iewes to be obeied and thinges to be done and kepte whiche they said bicause they succeeded Moyses and sate in Moyses Chaire Howbeit what the people of Rome of Italie and of Germanie said of the Pope at that time it ought the lesse to be regarded bicause they spake vpon grudge conceiued against him the Romaines Platina in vita Hadriani ◠for that as Platina witnesseth he denied them their ernest request which was that they might liue freely vnder the gouernement of the Consulles and be exempted from their subiection to the Church the Italians and Germains for that they were muche vexed with warres by William the King of Sicilia and Frederike the firste Emperour from whiche vexation and troubles they saw they should haue benne deliuered if the Pope woulde haue benne content to suffer the Landes of the Churche to be inuaded and taken awaie by those Princes Euen so in these daies the Popes be the worse spoken of and finde the lesse good wil at many mennes handes in some partes of Christendome bicause they can not be induced to allow and confirme the possession of certaine ecclesiastical Landes which haue ben taken frō the Church by vnlawful meanes in such wise as they them selues would haue it allowed and confirmed To be short agree with vs M. Iewel vnto the doctrine which the Church of Rome teacheth where the Succession is certaine wherunto your owne doctor Ioannes Sarisburiensis leadeth you and we wil agree with you in reprouing the vices and faultes of that See the proufe of which for a great part of them for ought ye can shewe is vncertaine Would God ye would once consider how sclender and weake the Argumentes ye make against the catholique Faith are which alwaies ye deduce à moribus ad doctrinam that is from reproufe of manners to the reproufe of doctrine Iewel Pag. 132. This is M. Hardings holy succession though faith faile yet Succession must holde Harding Nay syr Succession doth holde that faith maye not faile For you haue not proued by any one example that faith did euer faile in the Churche of Rome In the Church I saye which consisteth of the Pope and of a college and an assemblie of graue Bishops and priestes professing them selues the faith and teaching it others In that open assemblie neuer was there false religiō decred or taught whereas so many heresies haue ben not fewer then a hundred and so many Archeheretikes of whom some haue ben in the other Patriarchal Sees but in Rome neuer was there an Archeheretike or any Pope who in Councel or Consistorie decreed or confirmed any heresie to be admitted To him that knoweth the ecclesiastical histories and conferreth the See of Rome with al other Churches it is such a miracle as therby God hath witnessed that Succession to be the Rocke of the faith In so much that the Bishops of the prouince of Tarracon in Spaine wrote thus vnto Pope Hilarius In Tom. 1. Concil epist 2. Ad fidem recurrimus Apostolico orè laudatam inde responsa quaerentes vnde nihil errore nihil praesumptione sed pontificali totum deliberatione praecipitur We resort vnto the faith praysed by the mouth of the Apostle seeking answers from thence whence nothing is commaunded by errour nothing by presumption but al by bishoply deliberation Iewel For vnto the succession God hath bound the holy Ghost Harding No but vnto the holy Ghost The holy Ghost causeth the Successiō to abide faithful God hath bound the Succession For he causeth the Succession to abide faithful bicause he causeth it to follow the inspiration of the holy Ghost that it may so be knowen for euer certainly true in the chiefe Apostles Chaire and in the fellowship abiding with him Christ saith he that heareth you Luc. 10. heareth me I am with you al dayes vntil the worldes ende Math. 28. I haue prayed for thee that thy faith faile not Luc. 22. and thou being once conuerted confirme thy brethern feede my sheepe Ioan. 21. feede my lambes I wil beseeche my father Ioan. 14. and he shal geue you an other conforter that he remaine with you for euer 16. the spirite of truth he shal teach you al thinges and al truth The Romaine faith is preached in the whole worlde Roma 1. Iewel For lacke of this Succession for that in our Sees in the Churches of England vve find not so many Idolatours Necromancers Heretikes Aduouterers Churcherobbers Periured persones Mankillers Renegates Monsters Scribes and Pharisees as vve may easily finde in the Church of Rome therefore I trovve M. Harding saith vve haue no Succession vve are no Bishops vve haue no Church at al. Harding Your Church of England hath yet scant continued so many weekes as the Churche of Rome hath continued yeres But if it had passed ouer such times of persecution as Rome hath if it had ben so assaulted by al sortes of enemies as wel within as without as wel with prosperitie as aduersitie I trow your Church would haue had before this as many Idolatours Necromancers Heretiques Aduouterers and such others by you named as the Church of Rome hath had Bishops And certainely already it hath had mo sortes of Heretikes and that within these xx yeres then Rome hath had euen by your owne accompte euil men within these fiften hundred yeres Idolatrie annexed vnto Heresie For your beginning progresse and the whole profession of your life is nothing but heresie whereunto Idolatrie is euermore annexed For an heretike doth alwaies worship his owne conceit and phantasie for truth and whereas God is truth he worshippeth his phantasie for God which is Idolatrie If the pope committed any faulte by frailtie he defended it not as you mainteine in open pulpites the breache of laudable and godly vowes and the marriages of consecrated persons who haue absteined from marriage euer since the Apostles tyme whose marriages saith S. Hierome be not so much Aduouteries Aduersus Iouin li. 1. as Inceste But in the number of mo then two hundred Popes within fiften hundred yeres you haue falsely numbred sixe or seuen as Heretikes whereas you can not denie but there haue ben in the same
he is him selfe founde to be a Laie gentleman or noble man of the Citie of Caesaria And whereas he married a wife but a litle before his Martyrdome what is that to the purpose for proufe that it was in olde time lawful for Priestes to marrie Bicause M. Iewel knew this muche rightwel contrary to the custome he vseth at other times he dissembled the greeke Original and thought he might better father this shameful lye vpon Cassiodorus meaning the latine Translation of Epiphanius And to helpe the matter An impudent falsifying he stickte not to put in this word Episcopum Bishop of his owne and so calleth him boldely Eupsychius the Bishop of Caesaria Let these menne haue leaue thus to corrupte and falsifie the Fathers and by them they shal be hable to proue what they liste M. Iewel standeth so muche in his owne conceit for the example of this Eupsychius Nicephorus belyed by M. Ievv Defence pag. 514. that for proufe of this very matter he bringeth it in againe in an other place in his pretensed Defence of his Apologie But there he allegeth it out of Nicephorus His wordes be these Nicephorus saith that Eupsychius being a Priest at Caesaria in Cappadocia married a wife a litle before that he was martyred Now let vs heare Nicephorus tel his owne tale Nicephorus lib. 1â— cap. 20. Thus he saith in like sorte as Sozomenus said before him Hoc ipso tempore Basilius Ancyranae Ecclesiae Praesbyter martyrio est defunctus atque item Caesariensis Eupsychius Cappadox veteri familia locoque claro natus At the very same time Basilius a Priest of the Church of Ancyra died a martyr Euen so likewise did Eupsychius the Caesarian of Cappadocia borne of an auncieÌ„t howse and of noble pareÌ„tage Thus hath M. Iewel belied and falsified both Sozomenus and his translator and also Nicephorus Let vs see what substantial witnesse he bringeth for legitimation of his Priestes Marriage in the last place Dist 84. Cum in praeteritâ— in Glossa Iewel Likevvise M. Harding might haue founde it noted in his ovvne Glose 〈…〉 M. Ieâ—el saith of my 〈…〉 seemeth â–ª that than he 〈…〉 Nicepherus spâ—…king of the two Apollinarâ—s Father and Sonne both heretiques Apollinaris the elder not married after he was made Priest saith Pâ—ter Presbyters filius Lectâ—ris ordineâ—â—…tiâ—ebat the Father obteined the Order of a Priest the sonne of a Pâ—â—â—der Of this it seemeth not that the father was married after thâ—â— he obteined to be a Priest but rather contrariwise that he was married before he was Priest For Niâ—â—phâ—râ—â— saith the father obteined to be a Priest whereby he seemeth to signifie if we may say what seemeth to vs that he was a father before he was made Priest and not first a Priest and afterward married and so made a father But perhaps M. Iewel gâ—â—herâ—th his seeming of these wordes following in Nicephorus Senex Alexandriaeâ—riâ—â— Beryti dâ—câ—it â—ucta Laodicia coniâ—gâ— Apollinariâ— filiâ—… progeâ—â—it â—smuche to say The olde mâ—â— was borne at Alâ—xandria â—â—ught aâ— Berytuâ— married a wife at Laodiceâ— and begâ—â—â— Apollinaris his sonne Of this order of wordes he can concludâ— no more that the older Apollinaris was married after that he was Priest then that he was borne at Alexandria after that he was an old man If he could proue that he was an old man bâ—â—ore he begote the yonger Apollinaris and that he was Priest before he came to Laodicea when he married then should he seeme to proue that an Heretique was married after he was Priest as many be now adaies Vntil he proue so much which sâ—â—l a 〈◊〉 this his seeming 〈◊〉 seeme litle worth Chrysost in Epist. 1 ad Timo. Homil. 1â— Iewel Chrysostome speaking of the Marriâ—ge of Bishops saith thus Quamuis nuptie pluâ—imum diâ—â—â—uâ—tatis in sâ— habâ—â—â—â— ita tamen assumi possunt 〈◊〉 perfectiori vitae impedimento non sint Notwithâ—â—â—â—â—ing marriage haue in it much trâ—â—ble yet so it may be taken that â—…shalbe no hinderance to perfite life He saith marriage may be takâ—â— or chosen and he speaketh namely of the marriage of Priestes and Bishoppes Harding Why nipte you of the ende of the sentence M. Iewel M. Ievvel nippeth of vvordes of his doctor Though you nor your good brethren the married Apostates like not wel of them yet for true dealinges sake you should not so haue gelded your Doctor of the wordes that so iointly hang to the sentence by you alleged They be these It is a hard thiÌ„g that marriage should not be a lette vnto the perfites life by iudgemeÌ„t of S. Chrysostom Verum id planè perquam rarò atque difficile Marriage may be so taken that it shal not be a lette vnto the perfiter life so much goeth before but certainly that is a thing very seldome and of great difficultie Doo ye heare syr what your owne Doctor saith That marriage be not an impediment vnto perfiter life which Priestes doo professe it is very seldome seene and a thing of very great difficultie saith your Chrysostome Here good Reader that thou be not begyled I must tel thee this muche Whereas M. Iewel beareth thee in hand that S. Chrysostome saith Marriage may be taken or chosen and that of Priestes and Bishops for of their Marriage he speaketh saith this manne al this is false M. Ievvel buildeth his prouf vpoÌ„ a forged sentence added vnto S. Chrysostome For first vnderstand thou this sentence is not in S. Chrysostome at al not in the Greeke I saie in which tongue only he wrote For I haue seene the Greeke and diligently conferred it my selfe But it is added vnto his texte either by the translation or by falshod vsed at the printing as in these corrupte times false printers haue corrupted many bookes of the olde Fathers Yet this muche wil I say of this sentence that it may right wel stand without any euil mâ—â—ning gathered of it though 〈…〉 be not S. Chrysostomâ—â— the Greeke examples supposed to be true For the Circumstance of the place beareth it to be spoken not specially of the Marriage of Priestes and Bishoppes as M. Iewel taketh it in this place but of Marriage indefinitely and generally as it maie be proued if there were nothing elles to proue it by the same M. Iewel in an other place namely in the page 179. before where he saith thus in the first line of that page S. Chrysostome saith generally of al menne Quamuis nâ—ptia plurimum difficultatis habeant c. Thus M. Iewel in the 514. page is confuted by M. Iewel in the 179. page Of such Contradictions he hath good stoare That it may appeare the plainer thus is it that we reade in S. Chrysostome Iâ— prim cap Titi. hom 2. Si igitur qui vxorem duxit c. Then if it be so that he which hath married a wife be careful for the thinges of the worlde and of conuenience a Bishop should not be touched
be sure to liue for ouer the whiche no euil man can eate For if it could so be that he who continueth euil stil should eate the worde made fleash whereas it is the woorde and liuing bread it should not haue ben written whosoeuer eateth this bread shal liue for euer Origen fovvly corrupted by M. Ievv These are the true wordes of Origen But M. Iewel hath so mangled them that the sense is cleane altered For in steede of verbuÌ„ caro factum the worde made flesh he hath placed the body of Christ referring it to the Sacrament And whereas in Origen it is edere verbum factum carnem to eate the word made flesh he hath made exchange thereof into edere corpus Domini to eate the body of our Lorde And so whereas Origen meant that euil men can not eate spiritually and effectually the Diuinitie of Christ so as it dwelleth corporally in his flesh M. Iewel hath taught him to say that an euil man can not in the Sacrament eate Christes bodie Iewel Pag. 210. VVe say vvith S. Augustine the Sacrament is not our Lorde In Iohan. Tract 5â— but the bread of our Lord. Harding S. Augustin denieth not the SacrameÌ„t to be our Lord he hath no such wordes Howbeit we our selues would denie it in some sense For some tyme the Sacrament is taken for the forme of bread and wine and that in deede is not our Lord. Iewel 212. M. Harding might accompt not only seuen but also seuenteen sundry Sacramentes Harding I accompt onely seuen in such sense as the Churche properly taketh a Sacrament And how that is I shewed before Iewel pag. 213. Thus vve say it can not be proued that this number is so specially appointed As for the reasons of seuen seales seuen trumpettes seuen starres seuen golden Candelstikes and seuen eyes they are childish Harding We ground not our seuen Sacramentes vppon those similitudes Seuen Sacrametes August de Ciuit. Dei li. 11. c. 30. de doctrina Christiana lib. 2. cap. 16. Albeit if any man applie some of those matters to the seuen Sacramentes it is not childishely done seing S. Augustine confesseth that the Mysteries of numbers be great in the holy scriptures Iewel 213. Vnto euery Sacrament tvvo thinges are necessarie a sensible outvvard Element as in Baptisme VVater in our Lordes Supper Bread and VVine and the vvord of Institution Harding Thus farre we are agreed with you Iewel Matrimonie Order and penaunce haue the vvoorde of God but they haue no outvvard creature or Element Extrems Vnction and Confirmation haue neither vvoorde nor Element Harding To answere you herein M. Iewel I can not doo better Conci Florentin in vnione Armeniorum then to send you to the Councel of Florence and to the bookes wherein the order of our Sacramentes are conteined Where you shal finde that there lacketh neither the woorde of Institution nor conuenient Element It is yenough to vs that both by the woorde of God and by the perpetual doctrine of the Churche we are taught Act. 8. Iacob 5. Luc. 22. Ioan. 20. that these seuen are Sacramentes Confirmation is proued in the Actes of the Apostles Extreme Vnction in the Epistle of S. Iames Order in S. Luke and in S. Iohn Now baptisme and our Lordes supper your selfe graunt of penaunce and Matrimonie I haue said sufficiently already To be short we are in possession of seuen Sacramentes neither can you nor any man now aliue or that euer liued sith the Apostles shewe that euer the Church was without so many Sacramentes Impugne them when you list I doubt not but you shal be answered For that ye haue said hitherto is litle worthe and most thinges are lyes Iewel pag. 213. 214. De SacrameÌ„tâ— Eucharistia The auncient Fathers hauing occasion to intreate of purpose and specially hereof speake only of tvvo Sacramentes and so Bessarion namely saith Harding None of them al hath written purposely of al the Sacramentes of the Church but as occasion serued M. Ievvel belyeth the ancient Fathers touching the number of the SacrameÌ„tes Dionysius De Ecclesiast Hierarch TertulliaÌ„ lib. de resur carnis Cyprian lib. 2. Epist 1. ad StephanuÌ„ Bessarion de SacrameÌ„to Eucharistiae Bessarion belyed by M. Ievvel they now speake of two now of moe Of two they speake the more specially bicause the custome was to geue them both together to those that were of discretion Howbeit Dionysius Areopagita the most auncient of al intreateth of many moe as his booke de Ecclesiastica Hierarchia doth witnesse Tertullian besides Baptisme and the body of Christ nameth together with them Anointing and Signing and Imposition of handes And the Doctours which you bring affirme two but they denie not moe Yea S. Cyprian whom you cite in the first place can not be proued there to meane by both Sacramentes Baptisme and the supper of our Lorde Bessarion saith two were deliuered plainely in the Scriptures but he confesseth moe whiche are deliuered also in the Scriptures though not so plainely as the other two And he expressely nameth Chrismatis Sacramentum the Sacrament of Confirmation or of Bishopping Of the other Sacramentes in general he speaketh twise in the beginning of that Treatie Wherefore there is an impudâ—nt he included in your wordes where you saie that I haue in expresse wordes The onely two Sacraments of the Churche So that nowe we maie couple you with Beza â—â—o teacheth the same doctrine in his Confession and iuâ—â—ly cal you bothe false teachers Iewel 214. Al these thinges not vvithstanding the Tridentine Councel concludeth seuen Sacramentes Harding So it ought and maie easily doo M. Iewel any thing that you haue yet brought notwithstanding You proue in dede that there are two Sacramentes but that there are no moe you haue not brought so much as one apparent authoritie Sauing that of Bessarion who neuerthelesse is vtterly against you For he beleued and taught that there were seuen Sacramentes Bessarion De Sacramento Eucharistiae as by that Treatie it maye wel appeare But what should I do good reader should I now proue that there are seuen Sacramentes Certainely it were easy for me so to doo and to set out a booke of that Argument farre greater then M. Iewels is And that may wel appeare true by that Ruardus Tapper Cardinal Hosius and Petrus a Soto with diuers other learned menne haue done in this behalfe I am sure M. Iewel wil not denie but I were hable to english at the lest that which I should find in their Latin bookes And yet therein standeth his whole shewe For in deede he doth litle els but english that which the Germaines and Geneuians bookes haue The 7. SacrameÌ„tes proued out of S. Augustine Augustiniana CoÌ„fessio The vntruthes and scoffes that he addeth of his owne though they be many in number yet doo they not greatly increase the bulke of his volume Besides al other Catholique bookes there hath one benne set forth
non castè tamen cautè If ye doo it not chastely yet doo it charily Harding You mistake your marke M. Iewel naming Otho Bonus for Otho They were diuers menne as you might haue sene in the Constitutions that you allege wherein your skil in the Canon lawe appeareth If you had laid forth the place wholly as true and vpright dealing requireth it should soone haue appeared vpon how smal a matter you pike so great a quarrel Thus it is Iohannes de Athon who wrote the Glose vpon the Constitutions Legatine of Otho hauing declared how a Clerke by which worde is not meant onely a Priest as you alwaies interprete but any that is within Orders be they the lesser or the greater is to be pounished for hauing a Concubine at length after his manner demaundeth this question Sed quid dices de punitione ipsarum Concubinarum si ad suam excusationem coram Iudice ecclesiastico se asserant publicas Meretrices quaestu corporis viuentes But what wilt thou saie of the pounishment of the Concubines them selues if for their excuse they saie before the ecclesiastical Iudge that they are common whoores lyuing by the gaine of that filthy seruice of their body Now immediatly there foloweth the answer which M. Iewel bringeth against the Canonistes not without a litle point of falsifying by nipping awaie this word Hoc an ordinarie marke of his workemanship Hoc nipâ—e avvaie by M. Ievv a vvorde of important siâ—uification Videtur quòd Hoc crimen Meretricij sub dissimulatione transire debeat Ecclesia It seemeth that the Churche ought to passe ouer this Crime of whooredome vnder dissimulation that is to saie to dissemble it The cause why the Churche ought to dissemble this crime in suche wemen as professe publique whooredom whiche the author of that Glose saith not precisely but speaketh it as an opinion and as a thing that seemed to some menne reasonable I had rather M. Iewel heard it of an other man then of me Certainely he maie iudge it is not altogether without cause that al Christendome ouer whereas al other wemen be pounished for the sinne of the flesh onely the common and publique whoores be let alone vnder dissimulation Yet it argueth not that simple fornication is made no sinne If M. Iewel would haue read further in that Glose he should haue founde these expresse wordes by whiche the Canonistes are cleered and he further charged with a false sclaunder Dic tamen quòd hoc peccatum prosequi debet Ecclesia vt mortale Ibidem Yet saie thou by whiche wordes he signifieth his owne opinion that the Church ought to pursue this sinne Vnde illud vulgare Si non castè tamen cautè as deadly sinne Whereof it foloweth that continuing in suche life they might not be admitted to the Sacramentes of holy Church As for those other wordes whiche we finde in the Glose Si non castè tamen cautè they are there rehersed as a common saying not as a rule or a precepte of the Canon Lawe neither perteine they to clerkes more then to the laie sorte The circumstance of the place considered and weighed al thinges maie seme there to be wel and discretely said Of two that committe Fornication he doth lesse euil that dooth it secretely then the other that doth it openly For the open fornicatour increaseth the offence by his il example by the offence the people take of it and by the contempte of his owne fame and good name Of suche a one it is said there out of the Lawe quòd famae suae prodigus etiam quoad homines suspensus est licet occulta fornicatio quoad Deum turbet bonam conscientiam that being a recheles loser of his owne fame he is suspended also as concerning the estimation of menne although the pryuie Fornication doo trouble a good conscience as touching God So then if it be an il thing a man to be suspended among menne and to lose the fame of his honestie Crudelis est qui famam contemnit if he be accompted cruel and desperate that careth not for his good name if it be dangerous to the soule also to prouoke others to offend by il example al these euilles folowing the publique and open fornicatour though secrete fornication ought also hartily to greeue and vexe the conscience before God how shal not that vulgare saying seeme to geue good counsel Si non castè tamen cautè whereby a man is not animated at al to doo il but if he hap to do his vncleane lust If not chastely yet charily or wil not be staid from it is admonished to doo it charily though not chastly And if there were any il meaning in this vulgare saying as there is not though it maie be abused to cast some shadow vpon euil lyuers the iudgement of the Canonistes were not to be reproued thereof but the custome of the worlde from whence it proceeded Iewel Pag. 360. Likevvise saith Petrus Rauennas one of your notable Canonistes Extra de immunitate EcclesiaruÌ„ Pet. RaueÌ„nas vpon the Decretalles Quamuis tactus oscula sint praeludia incontinentiae in Laicis secus tamen est in Clericis Nam Clericus praesumitur ista facere pro charitate bono Zelo. Notvvithstanding handeling and kissing in laie Personnes be the occasions or beginninges of incontinent behauiour yet in Priestes it is far othervvise For a Priest is presumed to doâ— these thinges of Charitie and of good zele Harding Yet Petrus Rauennas saith not that Simple Fornication is no sinne That is the thing you haue taken in hande to proue against the Canonistes When touche you the point In Italie where this lawier liued to kisse a woman is taken for a certaine earnest of a wanton bargaine promised and therefore openly men kisse not women at first and last salutations as the vse is in England But bicause that thing maie be in it selfe diuers according to the diuers manners of Countries and therefore maie be deemed good nolesse then euil menne being bounde to iudge the best of that whiche maie be wel done or is at least indifferent the Lawier considering the vertue and degree of a Clerke saith that an euil presumption is not lightly to be taken thereof but willeth it to be taken for courtesie and charitable salutation as it is taken in England and in sundry other countries Extra de Prebend c. nisi in principio For the qualitie and state of the person doth oftentimes purge the suspicion that otherwise is woont to rise of any acte Let vs heare what other Gloses this Gloser bringeth for his purpose Iewel Pag. 360. 11. quaest 3. Absit in Glossa Likevvise it is noted in your Glose Si Clericus amplectitur mulierem Laicus interpretabitur quod causa benedicendi eam hoc faciat If a Priest imbrace a vvoman a laieman must iudge of it thus that he dooth it to the intent to blesse her VVhere also ye
making great bookes Write fewer wordes more truth Truste not euery pelting booke that seemeth toothsom vnto you yea write nothing but truth and ye shal ease vs of much paynes Now a mannes life wil not serue him to discouer the multitude of your Lies to such impudencie ye are growen What man is there hauing any sparke of shamefastnesse that would referre vs so often and so confidently to a booke by a title which it neuer had ne neuer was any such written And therefore vntil you bring forth your authour hereof you must be content to beare al the blame of a sclaunderous and impudent Lier It had ben an easie matter for you to haue vowed Tritemius de Scriptoribus Ecclesiasticis Conradus Gesnerus Bibliotheca or his Epitome or elles Cusanus workes printed at Basile anno 1565. which was out almost two yeres before your Defence was published where you should haue founde that he neuer wrote booke of any suche title What is to be thought hereof but that either you haue maliciously inuented this Lie of your selfe to deface the authour withal or elles that you haue vnwisely receiued it of some other who is not hable to abide by it If of your selfe then maius peccatum habes if of any other then bring him forth a Goddes name to discharge your selfe of malice albeit not of folie I do ghesse that you wil peraduenture bring forth a greate Stoareman of yours who furnisheth you with suche gaie stuffe and maketh you a greate Truant a felowe meete for the purpose that wil neuer faile suche a false merchant at a neede I take him to be that sures bee of yours Matthias Flacius Illyricus For you declare your selfe that you beside other bookes of his haue benne busie with his Norma Concilij Tridentini And there I finde written In altera parte clauis Scripturae pa. 541. Nicolai Cusani post quam factus est Cardinalis sententia de auctoritate Ecclesiae Concilij supra contra Scriptutam But yet this wil not discharge you of malice For he saith not that he entituled his booke so as you doo affirme but doth pretende to recite Cusanes minde of that matter as this worde Sententia declareth Now one maie gather an other mannes minde concerning any matter out of his writinges though he neuer made any worke of that title Neither doth Illyricus specifie in that place the worke out of the which he hath drawen that whiche he there allegeth and whiche you receiued of him againe at the seconde hande So that I can not perceiue but that the blame bothe of folie and of malice must reste stil vpon your owne persone For I suppose you wil not haue your selfe taken for so ignorant as to thinke Sententia is latine for a booke or if you wil then why doo you so bragge as it were and boast of your great reading and learning Moreouer you haue not onely geuen vs a false title of your owne imagination to Cusanus writinge but also of an Epistle you haue made a Booke That your good intente and plaine dealing herein maye be more euident I wil recite the title of thal Epistle as it is to be founde amonge his workes printed at Basile Anno 1565. Pagin 851. 852. Epistola 7. Nicolai de Cusa Cardinalis ad Clerum Literatos Bohemiae and thereunto in the toppe of the leafe is added De amplectenda vnitate Ecclesiae Let bothe these Titles be conferred and your malicious intent in so wilfully deprauing the authours wordes to bring him out of credite must most manifestly appeare Wel perchaunce you wil saye though the title be altered yet his wordes out of that same Epistle be truely recited wherein consisteth the chiefe effecte and principal purpose If you so saye you wil be proued no lesse a Lier and false reporter herein then you haue benne in the reste And for example hereof I wil bringe euen the very firste place that you haue alleged out of him You tel vs page 55. that thus he saith Sequuntur Scripturae Ecclesiam non è conuerso Cusanus fovvly falsified by M. Ievvel The Scriptures of God followe the Churche but contrariwise the Churche followeth not the Scriptures You haue here clipped the Authours sentence and quite altered the sense His wordes are these Ecclesia igitur sicut recipit Scripturam ita interpretatur Pag. 858 Sequuntur Scriptura Ecclesiam quae prior est propter quam Scripturae non è conuerso The Churche as it receiueth the Scripture so doth it expounde the same The Scriptures therefore do follow the Churche which is the former and for the which the Scripture is ordeiined and not contrariwise What oddes is betwixt this sentence of Cusanus and that whiche you haue fathered vpon him any meane witted man maie ealsily perceiue For Cusanus wordes in their right forme doo bothe stande wel and haue a good meaning But your false changing of them causeth them to importe an intollerable Derogation to the Scriptures without any colour of truth For as it is most true that the Church was before the Scriptures that is to saie the written worde of God and that the Scriptures were ordeined and appointed for the Churche but not contrariwise the Churche for the Scriptures so is it very false that the Scriptures doo followe the Church and the Church not the Scriptures For why hath the Church receiued the Scriptures but to follow them and put them in execution both in our inward beleefe and in our outward actions Doo you not blush M. Iewel thus wilfully to peruerte that with your false iuggling and conueying awaie of those wordes quae prior est propter quam Scripturae whiche before had a right good sense You thought by like you should neuer heare thereof againe nor be called to any reckening or elles you would haue had more regarde ro your good name and honestie You can pretende no tollerable excuse as that you had not Cusanus workes at hande For euen Illyricus vpon whose credite you haue taken vp al that you haue out of this epistle doth not otherwise reporte the same Pag. 544. in 2. parte Clauis Script then they are to be founde in the authour But you thought you would passe him an ase in falsehood although he be his craftes master therein How fowly you haue ouershote your selfe in falsifying sentences and misreporting authour for authour and booke for booke that which hath hitherto ben declared maie be sufficient instruction to any man that is willing and desirous to vnderstande the truthe and not content to be lead into wilful blindnes and errour Howbeit to make the matter a litle more sensible and plainer and also to geue you occasion the better to know your folie and not to exalte your selfe ouermuch with pride vaine glorie and presumption of I can not tel what extraordinarie knowledge as you seeme to doo I wil set before your eyes such a glasse of your grosse