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A62893 The Muggletonians principles prevailing being an answer in full to a scandalous and malicious pamphlet, intituled A true representation of the absurd and mischevious principles of the sect called Muggletonians : herein the aforesaid principles are vindicated, and proved to be infallibly true : and the author of that libel, his scandalous title and subject proved as false to truth, as light is to darkness, and that he knows no more what the true God is, nor what the right devil is, nor any true principle or foundation of faith, for all his great learning he so much bosts of, then those Jews that put the Lord of life to death, for learned and taught reason is but natural, and so falls short of the glory of God, as will appear in the following discourse / by T.T. Tomkinson, Thomas, 1631-1710? 1695 (1695) Wing T1840; ESTC R18719 47,859 79

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Bible but after the Greek your own Doctors read thus He shall come at no dead Soul Is it not said Gen. 2.17 That man was made a living soul And was not the threatning charge given out That that soul that sinned Ezek. 18. vers 20. that soul should dye and yet say you the soul cannot dye Now that which the National Ministry do make a ground of the Immortality of the soul is to all spiritual wise men an evident proof of its Mortality as where it is said so such a one dyed and was gathered to his people now whether is it that they were gathered but into the grave As for instance see 2 Kings 22.20 If the Soul can enjoy Heaven without its body Col. 3.4 1 Thes 4.14 what matter of a Resurrection but it is certain that the Scriptures affirms the contrary and that there can be no Salvation without a Resurrection When God shall raise the dead Mat. 13.41 c. 24.31 c. 25.31 John 5. ●8 c. 11.43 he hath his Angels attending to gather the Saints together as God raiseth them neither God nor his Angels doth not bring their Souls from Heaven to ●●ume their dead bodies but our God raiseth Soul and Body together out of the Grave by a word speaking as he did the Body and Soul of Lazarus Again on the other hand 1 Revel 20.13 Isa 66.24 must all the damned Souls come from Hell to fetch up their cursed bodies What Hell do they come from but out of the Grave Soul and Body out of the Grave and when the Soul and Body rises Jer. 17.13 Mich. 7.71 Ex●d 10.21 Revel 10.10 then the Devil rises to his eternal Punishment and this Earth will be the place of the Devils Torment where he acted all his Lies and Cruelty there shall he suffer eternally after the Elect Men and Angels are assended with their God into Eternal Glory the Plagues of Egypt were a Tipe of this These things will be so in their time And so much in answer to this Principle In pag. 20th you oppose John Reeve for saying How that but one Angel fell from his Created Purity and Glory This Doctrine say you The Accusation is quite contrary to Scripture which tells us in Jude That the Angels fell and this say you cannot be apply'd to Kain and his Posterity For they say you by our own words never fell And as for Kain say you He never was from that fallen Angel but was of Adam's begetting as well as Seath. And again you affirm also That all Kain's Offspring nerished in the Floud CHAP. X. ANSWER IF that Offspring of that Serpent-Angel that was cast from Heaven could know it self Isa 29.10 John 12.40 Rev. 11.7 then you might know that these Angels spoken of in Jude were the Offspring of Cursed Kain the Serpent Angel transmuted into Flesh and reserved in Chains of Unbelief and the Darkness of Ignorance For Jude spoke of no other Devils but what were clothed in Flesh and it was they that were the Devils ordained to condemnation And therefore mind for he brings in Sodom and Gomorrah and the Rebellious Jews against Moses and those upstart Hypocrites who denied the Lord to be the only and alone true God and yet pretended his Name All these saith he were ordained to condemnation in that Serpent-Angel aforesaid being reprobated in the Seed and Kain was that Seed And therefore Jude pronounces the Woe unto them as the Off-spring and Seed of Kain v. 11. to whom Eternal Torment doth belong Again Rev. 12.7 where it is said that there was a war in heaven Michael and his Angels fighting against the Dragon and his Angels That Michael was the Spirit of the Lord Jesus in all his Angelical Believers and the Dragon was the Spirit of Cursed Kain in all his Seed This War was on Earth tho' said to be in Heaven because the Original of both Seeds came from Heaven for there never was any actual Rebellion in Heaven but that Angel-Serpent aforesaid being cast out all his Seed fell in him and was cast out with him and so actual Rebellion took place And therefore said John Wo to the Inhabitants of the Earth for the Devil not Devils is come down amongst you Verse 12.17 And it was this Devil that brought the Wo both to Saint and Serpent in this Warfare doth these Two Woes take place to them Two Seeds one in this Fight having his Heel bruised Gen. 3.15 Rev. 13.7.10 which is in Persecution loss of Goods and Death natural the other having his Head bruised by the Saints Weapons of War which reacheth to a second Death And this Devil that was cast down 1 John 3.12 was the Father of Cain from whence all Wickedness and Cruelty hath flown for Cain was the very First-born of that Devil and the fulness of that Serpent-Angel's God-Head lived Boddily in Cain and such of his Seed that have in them a great Share of that piercing Reason or God-head-power became potent Angels Lords and Governours of this World it being given to that Seed and they labour in this their Kingdom to imitate the grandure of that Glory their Father the fallen Angel had before his Fall and to come as near to it as possibly they can And here it is Ezek. 29.3 That the Prophet Ezekiel compares Pharaoh King of Egipt to the great red Dragon And the Assirian Monarch was said by the Prophet to be in Dignity Power Glory and Buty like unto his Father the Angel before his Transmutation into Flesh Chap. 33.3 when he walked once in the Garden of Eden being greater than several others of his Father's Children The great Kings of Babilon were said to be from Lucipher and therefore were called after his Name Lucipher the Sun of the Morning And they are said by the Prophet Isaiah Isa 14.12 To be cast down from Heaven which could not be if they had not proceeded from the fallen Angel And as they were cast down from Heaven in that Angel even so they were for exalting their Thrones above the Stars and to be like unto God which doth shew That they were evil Kings and evil Beasts For good Kings and such as proceed not from Cain they are not for exalting themselves so high as to that Heavenly Throne of judging of Mens Faith and Conscience neither will they tiranise over their Subjects but do Justice according to the Law But to the Matter aforesaid The great King of Tyrus Ezek. 28.3 seems to out-top all the foregoing Kings with Angelical Perfection for he is said to be the very anointed Cherub himself he having as great a Share of that lost Glory as his fallen Nature could afford him for that Angel that he proceeded from was a Church which was the highest Order of Angels and this King was of the highest Degree of Wisdom Buty and Glory And therefore his Perfections was such Verse 13.14 as that he
behold him as he is in his full Glory Deut. 10.6 If God was willing at any time that some of his Servants the Prophets should behold him he was compelled to vale his Glory so as that their frail Nature might be in a capasity to behold him And this we further affirm That we can sooner find in Scripture that our God hath and ever had a distinct Body of himself than you can find in Scripture a Trinity of Persons in one Godhead for if you find Three distinct Persons then you must find Three Bodies and where then is your Spirit God become 4. Again is not the Scriptures clear That the Fathers of old did see God Gen. 17.3 Exod. 24.10 Isa 6.5 John 35.9 Exod. 33.23 and ever beheld him in Form and Shape of a Man Will you say that God assumed that Shape and yet had no Shape of his own this is to make God a Conniver It is no wonder as I said before that you dispise John Reeve for saying that the Lord spake to him to the hearing of the Ear for you do not believe that God hath any Tongue to speak at all For say you a Spirit hath no Flesh and hath no Body For say you Body and Spirit are Two contrary things As the Scripture saith that God hath a Body Dan. 7.9 Revel 10.1 1.14 John 6. ● Psal 94.9 N●m● 12.8 Isa 6● 5 so it attributes to this Body Hands Eyes Face Nose Mouth Ears Arms Leggs Breast Heart Back c. And yet must he have never a Body this is clearly to deny Scripture for the Scripturian saith That God hath a Body but the Antescripturian saith That God hath neither Body Parts or Shape but yet is an infinite vast God filling all things and is in all Places at one and the same time and so can neither Assend nor Descend Come nor Go but is everywhere at once as your great Augustin saith This is yours and the Worlds monstrous God Are those the Men that are so capable of Argument if we should be as ignorant in the Scriptures as you it were no matter if our Tongues should cleave to the Roof of our Mouths I wonder you are not ashamed to pretend to Scripture do you believe the Scripture Certain I am that there are many Doctors of your Church that doth not believe them at all for instance hereof there is one of your Doctors namely Dr. More This Man in one of his Books called his Cabila doth little less than give the Scripture the Ly for treating upon the Creation of Man by Moses saith That the Scriptures doth not always speak according to the exactness of Truth but according to their Appearance in Sense and the vulgar Opinion and he quotes Chrisostim Bernard and Aquinus as holding the same things and instances it as to the Creating of Adam and Eve Saying thus God hath no Figure or Shape altho Moses saith he hath he only permits the Ignorant and Vulgar People to Believe so it being his Prudence and Policy so to do Now is not this Odious for what Prudence is it to Flatter Dissemble and Deceive the People for must Gods Prophets be but like Polititians of State pretending one thing and acting another Again this Man brings in Moses speaking thus God took of the Dust of the Ground wrought it with his Hands into such a temper that it was fit to make the Body of a Man which when framed then comes near to it with his Mouth and breathed into his Nostrils the Breath of Life And when God had made a Woman of one of Adam 's Ribs he takes her by the Hand and brought her to Adam so when Adam was awaked Ge● 2● 21 he found his Dream to be true for he dream'd that God took a Woman out of him for God stood by him with a Woman in his Hand Now it is true says this Doctor Moses spakes in this manner to satisfy the rude Multitude who was ever ready to think that God was in Forme and Shape as they were and thus Moses complyed with their Humour and permited them to belive so yet saith he it is a Contradiction to the Idia of God to have Figure and Shape Now what say you to this is not this giving Moses the Lie Moses you see would permit People to believe That God was in the Form of a Man Now why will not you permit us to believe so Moses did not count this Doctrine a mischievous Principle as you do but you with this Man set your selves against Moses and against the Scriptures they are counted no other than a Lie with you Now it is clear by this that many of you Doctors are stark blind Athists your Protestant Church is now grown as blind with Age almost as your Fathers the Papists and as Atheistical as one of the Popes who said That that Fable of Jesus Christ had brought their Church great Riches And one of that Church said to me that the Scriptures were but balderdash Stuff Now as to that saying of Christ's to his Disciples That a Spirit had not Flesh and Bone as he had it was only to inform them that there was no such Spirit as the World imagined that could be seen that had no Body for Eyes of Flesh must have a Substance for its Object Therefore said Christ handle me and see for I have a Body a Substance of very Flesh and Bone John 20 2● and they felt and believed him to be their Lord and God For Christ from hence would have them for ever after to know that all Spirits whither of God Men or Angels are always invisible for it is the Body that is visible for the Soul that is in it is always invisible which Spirit comprehends all visible things yet cannot Live Act or Operate without its Body And so much for that Principle Again Page 19th you Representor object against that most divine and misterious Principle of God the Fathers becoming Flesh and call this a Doctrine quite contrary to Scripture and produce those Scriptures for Proof against us namely that God sent his Son made of a Woman And the Word was made Flesh but say you there is not one Word That the Father was made Flesh CHAP. VIII ANSWER IT is confessed by us Gal. 4.4 John 5.26 10.18 Epb. 5.2 that the Scripture saith That God sent his Son as also that Christ came of himself and that he laid down his Life of himself Now if he laid down his Life of himself then where was the Father but in himself for it was his divine Spirit that was the Father by which he could lay down his Life by that self and by that self could take it up again For God transmuteing his spiritual Body into Flesh so gained the Godhead and humane Nature together Heb. 1.3 and so hath a Twofold Self Humane and Divine Therefore when he saith he hath Power of himself to lay down his Life Titus
quite contrary and that they move in several Orbes and that each Orbe at so much distance from each other as the Astroligers affirm CHAP. XIV ANSWER 1. IS it not as good Sense and better to believe That the Sun Moon and Stars move all in one Firmament or Heaven as so many as Nine several Heavens as your blind Astrologers teach you And yet our fleshly Eyes can pierce through them all nevertheless every one of these must be so many Thousands of Miles beyond each other and this blind Opinion must be ratified forsooth because the Planets and fixed Stars have several Motions and therefore from hence you will have these several Heavens and these their differences in Motion must shew their difference in Hight and Substance 2. Because Saturn moves so sloly as to be near upon Thirty Years in finishing his Course through the Twelve Signs whereas the Sun finishes his in one Year Therefore from hence do you conclude that he must be of necessity Thirty times higher and Thirty times bigger than the Sun and Thirty times further to go nay and the next Orbe above Saturn to move so slow as to be Forty Thousand Years in finishing his Course Pray how many Millions of Miles is it to that Heaven or Primum Mobila One of your Mathematisians say it is One hundred and seventy Millions eight hundred and three Miles Is this your Wisdom in which you say we are not capable to answer you in I pray Is this good Pulpit Doctrin One of your Ministers that I did know whose Name was Mountney did mount so high as to affirm in the Pulpit to his Parishioners that it was so far to the Primum Mobila That if it were possible to fling a Millstone down from thence that it would be Seven Years before it would reach this Earth And yet in another Doctrin he taught That a departed Soul would be in Heaven in a Moment which is much higher than that primum Mobila And your reverend Doctor More before quoted must be remembred here for he Taught That a Star of the first Magnitude is Twenty thousand times higher than this Earth and Nine hundred thousand times biger than the Moon These are your rare learned Men I wonder how they could get a Line of that length to measure so far and yet to stand upon this Earth But let them go on for the time of their Sophestry is almost at an end But to conclude this Point as you upon our Principles of the Sun Moon and Stars aforesaid do call all Men to be Judges against us so we to retort your Language do call all sober Men to judge whether your Opinion of Sun Moon and Stars be not an Error of the greatest Magnitude and also whether you have done us Justice yea or nay And so much in answer to your first Query CHAP. XV. SIR your Second Query or latter part of your Pamphlet was to prove Lodowick Muggleton false from his Interpretation of the 11th Chapter of the Revelation of John But your Proof is but your Denyal for you do not so much as shew the meaning of one Word in all that Chapter If they could but assended up to Heaven in a Cloud as they had shewed how Moses and Jesus did all had been well enough even as the Jews if they could but have seen Elias to have come in Person as John Baptist did then they would have believed as they said So if you could but have seen these Prophets to assend up in a Cloud then perhaps you would have said you would have believed them But soft say you they are not the Two Witnesses for they cannot assend to Heaven for John Reeve is dead Besides say you they must have been put to Death by the Hands of Violence and then to have risen again and ascended to Heaven in the sight of all Men. This is all the Interpretation you can give of them which is none at all and all the Proof you have against them And as to Lodowick Muggleton's Interpretation of that Chapter you seem to be at a great Loss about it being astonished at his Words For say you I cannot tell how to reconcile his Words and from hence you fling all off to others saying Reconcile them as can for I cannot And what is the Difference and Matter that cannot be Reconciled Why say you he saith That they Two are the Two Witnesses and yet they say That the Body of those Two Witnesses are the Letter of the Scriptures and that the Witnesses or Letter was slain 1350 Years before and yet was slain in them again by the Beast out of the bottomless Pit To this I answer 1st Here you would have the Letter to be slain whenas it was the Spirit and Life of that Letter that was slain for the Life being gone therefore the Letter of the Scripture remained as a dead Body in regard there was none living that could give a true Interpretation of it Now this Spirit and Life was killed 1350 Years ago for the last of the Ten Persecutions did kill and root out all the true ordained Bishops or Ministers of the Gospel so that there was none left to give the Holyghost to others by laying on of Hands so then there was no quickening Power remaining until a new Commission was given which now is fulfilled at this Day for the same Spirit that gave the other Witnesses their Commission hath chose these to be Witnesses 3dly So that they having received that same Spirit of Life from God as the others had therefore it is they only that can and do Interpret the Letter of the Scripture for the Scripture is put into their Hands as the Priesthood was into the Hands of Aaron and they by their Interpretation do put Life into the Scriptures making it to stand upon its Feet in the Consciences of Men and Women with great Power both to the Seed of Faith and to the Seed of Reason John 6.63 15.36 to save and destroy for Words of Truth have Spirit and Life 4thly And as that Spirit of Reason did kill that Spirit of Life that did speak that Letter so that now that Spirit and Life is come into them again they will stand upon their Feet and kill the Spirit of Reason with a Death Eternal for there is now both Body and Life in the Scriptures and it is the Body of the Witnesses of the Spirit which is not a dead Body but a living Body now and so will remain to the end of the World 5thly Again whereas you do affirm That these Witnesses do declare that the Spirit and Life was killed in them by the Beast out of the Bottomless Pit in their Persecutors That saying of yours is utterly false and you did it malitiously on purpose that his Words might not be reconciled for Lodowick Muggleton did say That the Beast out of the Bottomless Pit made War against them and would have killed them if their Law could