found the lyer thy self and this we testifie against thee and all the world that by Jesus and in him are we made Holy Just and Humble he is made these things in us and for us and the Publican state is witnessed by us who have passed through the figure and parable into the life and substance And whereas thou sayst we that boast of our light within and faith thus saith the Lord and brings Christs words I answer this is another lye we do not boast of our Light within but we witness it to be within us and to have enlightned every one that comes into the world which thou and thy Generation denies and so would make Christ a Lyer and the Scripture a Lye but against you all with all the world we bear testimony the Father bears witness with us that every man that comes into the world is enlightned by the Light of Christ which teacheth righteousness unto all that loves it but condemn them that hate it whereof thou art one who utters forth thy lyes and Slanders and false Accusations against the Innocent and that Scripture Ioh. 9. we own and do witness to be fulfilled in us by the coming of Christ he which did see is Blind and he which was Blind now sees and while we did see our sin remained but being Blind we have no sin but this to thee and to thy spirit is a mystery sealed and never to be known in that nature and wisdom and here again thou hast used thy tongue false Prophet like and must receive a false Prophets reward And whereas thou sayst if Christ had not spoke to us in his word we had no sin but now we have no cloak for our sin I answer Christs words we own but here thou art made manifest to all to add to the Scripture in his word this thou hast added false Prophet like and therefore the Lord will add his plagues unto thee as the Scripture saith be ashamed and blush thy folly and wickednesse is made manifest who is not ashamed to carry on thy designe to add to Christs words And whereas thou sayest we do not only neglect the weightier matters of the law but tâ—… law it self teaching men so to do for we said that the Scripture is not the rule of faith and conversation as one of us taught Sept. 27. in thy hearing and many others that will witness it I answer here I challenge thee to prove that thou hast spoken and all thy witnesses which thou speakes of oh thou Lyer be ashamed to forge such Lyes and declare them in writing for Truth we neglect not the weightier matters of the Law nor the Law nor teach any so to do all that ever heard us will bear witness against thee and they though our Enemies shall witness for us and against thee in this thing for we declare the Everlasting Gospel which is the fulfilling of the Law and this we declare that the Law must have its thorow operation before the Gospel be witnessed and one of thy own society said to us we had preached the Law and brought men to understand 〈◊〉 from Grace now let all take notice of the confusion you live in and let your own hearts condemn you and the light in your own consciences convince you that you are in Babylon and in confusion and are no true Church of Christ where all are oâ— one heart and one mind and this again I affirm as before I did in thy hearing that the Scripture is not the Saints rule but the Spirit which gave forth the Scripture as the Scripture it self witnesses Rom. 8. Faith was before the Scripture was and therefore the Scripture is not the ground of it but a Declaration of it and no other faith we own but the faith which Abel had and which Moâ—â—â— had which was when no Scripture was written and that we own to be the Rule of our Conversation which they walked by the immediate Spirit of God which was before the Scripture was written and all you who profess the Scripture to be your rule your own rule shall testifie against you when the eternal God judges you and they who witness that to be their rule which gave forth the Scripture walkes up in the life of the Sdripture more then you all and you are proved to be but the Iew outward who boasts of the Ordinances from the Letter but persecutes them by slanders and false reproaches who witness the Substance and your praise is only of men and not of God and the same woe which thou pronounces upon us will fall upon thy own head for this thy grievous slander that we neglect the Law and teach men so to do And whereas thou brings many Scriptures and saith thus saith the Lord. I answer the Scriptures we own and by that spirit which speaks them forth we witness them to be true and they are ours and though you say they are the savour of death to us that perish yet thou art found a Lyer for we are saved out of the perishing state and death is destroyed through death through faith and thou hast diminished from that Scripture 2 Tim. 3. 15. false Prophet like again and so art both an adder and a diminisher and thou mayst read thy portion in Rev. 22. 18 19. And whereas thou sayest know this thou perverter of the right way of God thou shalt be judged by the word that Christ spake I answer here thou sets the Scripture in the room of Christ and art the perverter of the right way of God thy self for the Scripture saith all judgement is commited to the Son and the Scripture is not the Son and thou didst say and now again writes that the Scripture shall judge the world and so I charge it upon thee that thou art a Blasphemer who exalts the Scripture above the Son of God and shalt be judged by the Son into utter darkness and into the pit from whence thou art come yet this I testifie he that receives the Son rejecteth not those words which was spoken by him though thou and thy Generation Pharisee-like may make a profession of the words which Christ spoke and yet reject the Son and all to whom Christ speaks which receives him not shall be judged by the word which he speaks for he speaks eternally which shall stand eternally but when did he speak to thee For this I do declare thou mayst have those words which he spoke and yet never have heard his word nor voice as the Pharisees had those words which God spake by the Prophets but never had heard his word nor seen his shape Iohn 5. And thou sayst quake and tremble at this that word which you reject and dispise shaâ—â— judge you at the last day and sayst thus saith the Lord and bringst Christs words and the Apostles words I Answer The Lord rebuke thee thou Scorner here thou hast made the filthiness of thy heart known for out of the abundance thereof
especially in this day wherein there are so many Ways and Professions of Church-Ministry and Worship and yet all professing the Scriptures are their Rule of Faith Worship and Practice and seeing that all Sects do profess Proof from Scripture for what they hold forth what Ground have the people to believe you more than others or others more than you for where people receive Doctrine or Religion by Report from others without the Evidence of the Spirit of God in their own Hearts this is not receiving of the Truth unto Eternal Life wherefore I exhort your Congregations That every one amongst them may wait upon the Lord to have a feeling and discerning in their own hearts and that each one may be led and taught oâ— the Spirit of God which leads into all Truth that they may deny all false Ministers and false Worships and may worship God in Spirit and Truth though the ministration of his own Spirit in their Hearts and Consciences and thereby will they discern between Truth and Error and will love the one and hate the other Thirdly You exhort That they keep themselves unspotted from the prevailing Corruptions of these back-sliding Times c. Answ. Concerning the Times many are ignorant but this is certain at the present Time wherein we are is the Lord disquieting of men and its the latter dayes of Antichist's Raign and Government that hath been in full Power and Authority for many Generations and Babylon that great City her Ruin is threatned because of her Abominations that have been many and great for the whole Earth hath been corrupted as it s written and now the Call of the Lord is That every man come out of Babylon and deliver himself that he may not partake of their Plagues and happy are they that are made clean unspotted from their Sins that they may not be found covered with her Garments for the Day of the Lord is come and coming upon Babylon and all Back-sliders from God and his Wayes Now Babylon is that great City which hath ruled over the Kings of the Earth and in her hath the Blood of Souls and of all just Men been found Fourthly You exhort To endeavour a Healing of those sad Breaches and Divisions which have been amongst you c. Answ. Now the sad Breaches and Divisions which are indeed at present in this Nation cannot be healed but as the Cause and Ground thereof be removed which is the Sins of Rulers Teachers and People and this is the Cause wherefore the Lord hath brought Distraction amongst them Oh what Ambition and Self-seeking hath been among the Rulers What judging for Gifts and Rewards What neglect of Mercy and Judgment amongst them And oh how have they oppressed the Poor and trodden down the needy and because hereof is the Righteous God vexed And oh what Covetousness and Greediness of Gain â—re the Teachers guilty of How do they Preach for Hire and Divine for Money How have they unreasonably caused men to be imprisoned and their Goods to be spoiled for Wages and Tythes and Hire Oh how hath Covetousness and Idolatry and Superstition abounded amongst the Teachers in this Nation Oh abominable have been their Sins their Oppressions and Self-seekings and because of these things hath the Lord brought Distractions amongst People and the Sins of Rulers and People cry for Vengeance from the Lord and till these Iniquities be removed by Repentance and forsaken the Fruit and Effect thereof shall never cease but Breach upon Breach will the Lord make till the Rulers and Priests repent them of their Iniquities God's Hand will be upon them both in Judgment and for their sakes that divine for Money and preach for Hire and judge for Rewards will the Lord make the Nation as Heaps and as a Ploughed Field Therefore let all people Repent of their Iniquities and return to the Light of Christ in their own Consciences and become Followers of the Lamb and this is the perfect Way of healing of all Breaches inwardly and outwardly Fifthly You exhort To be diligent in the Spiritual and Conscientious Performances of Family-Duties c. Answ. Men must first be awakened and enlivened unto God before they can act for God in Holy Duties and as for Duties performed in pretence unto God traditionally and without the Teachings of the Spirit of God is but Idolatry and the Nation is weary of such a Religion which they have received and held traditionally for thereby the Soul Immortal cannot be nourished unto Eternal Life and while you teach Duties towards God by that Rule while you teach Praying Singing Repeating Catechizing by Tradition and Immitation without the Leadings of the Spirit of Christ in them you do but teach Idolatry as long hath been taught in the Christian Nations the doing and performing such and such things as Christian-Duties and Practices and the Forcing and Compelling of doing such things upon People in the unregenerate state and unconverted nature this Religion and such Performances of Duties have been of Babylon and of Antichrist and a Cheat upon Peoples Souls whereby many have been murdered and slain in that great City and the Form of Godliness without the Power hath been practiced while Duties have been performed unto God without the Teachings of the Spirit of God and such their Consciences are blinded and the Lord abhors their Sacrifices And people must first come to feel the Word of God in their Hearts to regenerate them before they can perform any acceptable thing to God and therefore do not teach People to be Hypocrites do not teach them such and such Performances in the corrupt Nature without the Teachings of the Spirit of God in their own particulars for if you do you make them but two fold more the Children of the Devil and such Duties performed in that nature shall not cover nor hide from the Wrath of the Lord which is coming upon all Hypocrites Sixthly You exhort That they would cause their Children and Servants to submit to Catechizings and train them up in the reverence of Godly Ministry c. Answ. It may be enquired into what you mean by cause them to submit how cause them by Force and Imposition upon their Consciences by outward external personal Punishments or Threats Is this your Meaning Will you set up Religion by Violence And must Children and Servants be compell'd by Restraint and Force This is not the right Way to promote Religion and the Worship of God nor to make Children and Servants truly Religious it was the Beast that received power from the Dragon that caused all to worship both Small and Great Children and Servants and this causing to worship was in the time of the Apostacy when the true Church was fled into the Wilderness and all the time ever since have Nations been caused and compelled to such and such performances and practices of Religion and Worship and such causing I am jealous your Meaning is whereby you would force and compel such manner
more clear opportunity for I cannot be at Okingâ—â—â— the day mentioned by thee because my service is already determined for that day and for some other reasons also in my own breast Let me have a plain answer from thee that I may dispose of my self is the Lord guides me for his service This is all for present I do desire who am a Friend to all that love the Lord. Reading the 19th of the 10th Moneth 1659 E. Burroughs But to this Letter his Answer was he would not meet me at Reading for there was no need of Dispute there and therefore it is my present work at this time for to answer his ten Particulars in writing and to make them publick to â—ll that all may judge of this matter And indeed but that for these teâ— particulrs Charges and that truth may be clear from those Charges in his ten Particulars I believe I had not thus proceeded in this publick manner but because â—e ceaseth not to speak evil of the Truth and yet will not come forth fairly to Tryal neither will answer me any Queries in publick but keeps a secret reviling and reproaching therefore do I thus proceed Answer to the first Position Thy Major and thy Minor are both lame and both false and thy so conclusion falls to the Ground for the Quakers do not pernitiously deny the Scriptures to be the Word of God but they in sincerity say that Christ is the Word of God Io. 1. 1. Rev. 19. 13. and the Scriptures are the Words of God and a Declaration and a Treatise and this Testimony is according to the Scriptures Luke 1. 1 Acts 1. And it is not Heresie nor Blasphemy to deny the Scriptures to wit the writings to be the Word of God but the truth written of and those things declared of in the Scriptures 〈◊〉 â—he Word of God and not the writings which are Scriptures But this iâ—â—â—â—the◠〈◊〉 to before mâ— so I pass it Answer to the second Position Thy Major Position is uâ—â—â—â—ly 〈◊〉 and not grounded upon any part of the Scriptures so that the Niâ—… and the Concluâ—â—â—â— are both denied and cast out for a man mâ—y sâ—y That Chrisâ—â—â—e Foundation of Faith and the Spirit of God is the Rule of Life for thus the Scriptures say and a man may lawfull deny the Scriptures to be the Foundation of Faâ—â—â— and Rule of Life and neither be Heretick nor Blasphemer was the Apoâ—â—â—e a Blasphemer and a Heretick who said No other Foundation could be laid but thâ—â— which was laid already which was Christ And was he a Heretick and a Blasphemer that said The Sons of God were led by the Spirit of God and exhorted to walk â—y the Rule of the Spirit and are the Quakars Blasphemers and Heretiâ—â—s who â—old forth that Truth the Apostles held forth and who walk by the Spirit wâ—… according and not contrary to the Scriptures O thoâ— Perverter of the right way of God who hast falsly accused the Innocent in thy illiterate Logick Answer to the third Position In this thou hast falsly accused but yet let us câ—â—sider thy words There was a Nature in that Maâ— Iesus Christ that was born of tâ—e â—â—â—gin that was subject to cold heat thirst and hunger and subject to be tempted of the Devil and this nature was not God whose nature is Infinite Eternal Unmeasurable me sâ—bject to hunger nor thirst nor to heat and cold nor subject to temptations so that a man may say lawfully and be no Blasphemer that there was a Nature in him which was â—ot God and yet the fulness of the Godhead dwelt in him too and he is the Everlasting Father and the Father is in him and he in the Father and thus by a sound interpretation of the Word God by Nature thy Major and Minor and Conclusion are all made void Answer to the fourth The good works of the Saints are wrought in God and by his Spirit and its God that works in them to will and to do and all such Works are worthy Works glorious Works and blessed Works even unto Eternal Life as the Scripture saith Glory Honour and Peace be unto every man that â—orketh good Rom. 2. 7 10. And no man by Faith without Works is justified for Faith without Works is dead and a dead Faith doth not justifie This is our Faith and the Faith which the Apostles were of and we are neither Hereticks nor Papists no more then were the Apostles and thy argument is vain and falls to the ground and hath no weight in it unto sober Minds though Self-righteousness is altogether Abomination to the Lord and justifieth not any man Answer to the fifth Position A man may deny the Sprinkling of Infants and the administration of Bread and Wine as is held forth in your Assemblies and be neither Antichristian nor a Heretick for the Institution of sprinkling Infants and administring of Bread and Wine among unconverted people was never ordained of God nor practised amongst the Apostles if thou sayst it was prove it out of the Scriptures or else stop thy Mouth and to deny such Ordinances and Practices which God never commanded nor the Saints of forâ—er Ages ever practiced is not Antichristian nor Heresie but thu do the Qakers and tâ—â—â—â—fore they are not Antichristian nor Hereticks upon this accompâ— and tâ—â—â— thy Position is not worth any thing for the end proposed by thee but thy Weakness and Folly is made manifest and thy idolatâ—ous Prâ—ctices so much plâ—â—â—ed for by thee are denied and opposed by the Spirit of the Lord. Answer to the sixth Position As for the sin of Infants we do not say That Infants in general that is to say every particular Infant that is 〈◊〉 hath been horn into the World has Sin for some were fillen with the holy Ghost and some were â—â—â—ctified from their Mother Womb and what Sin had such And the Scriptâ—re speaks That the Unbelieving Wife is sanctified by the Beliâ—ving Hâ—… eâ—se 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Câ—ildrâ—â— unclean but now are they holy And what sin had these So that â—â—y maâ—… is proved defective and so thy minor and thy conclusion is worth nothing though as to the general part we do believe there is a nature whereby all are Children of Wrath in Degeneration Answer to the seventh This is a false Accusation thy minor Proposition and is a Lye and so thy Conclusion is utterly false Answer to the eighth As for the Christian-Sabbath we do not deny that for Christ is the Saints Rest and the Seventh day of the Week is the Iews Sabboth and not the Christian-Sabbath and so this is but a false Accusation as the rest And as for the first day of the Week which you observe for Sabboth you have neither binding Example nor express Command in Scripture for that practice Answer to the ninth As for the singing of David's Psalms in Rhime and Meeter and in the Custom as practised amongst you we do utterly deny to be any Ordinance of
thy self and to that in thy Conscience I speak and it will let thee see that all thy worship is taken on in thy will and in that nature in which the enmity stands and so hath taken on things and taken up things by tradition from others and that which was commands to others who followed the Lamb whithersoever he went and no commands to thee neither doth God require those things of that nature neither doth he accept it while the bands of wickedness is not loosed and the oppressed is not set free and therefore let all flesh and carnal reason be silent for God will confound the wisdom of the wise and they that have divined in their reasons which is in the curse and under the curse shall be mad now in the day when God is raising up his own Image and bringing back that which hath long been held in captivity and now the men of the Earth Pharaoh and all the Inchanters of Egypt and the South-sayers and the Diviners and Gog and Magog among which thou Hewet art found one and they compass the Camp of the Saints about but fire shall come down from Heaven that shall destroy all the Adversaries of the Lord and Israel shall go free 1. That which thou calls our first Principle And first thou sayest They oppose the Word Christ to the written word and will have a Word that is a discovery spiritual to be the Word but whatsoever it is they call the Word it is perfectly false and not the truth Answer Oh thou Lyar and Slanderer the Lord will plead with thee for Addars Poyson is under thy tongue and thou hast a Whores forehead that art not ashamed of thy false accusing let hundreds in the City of London who hath heard us be witness against thee and thy Lyes that thou hast Printed and suffers them to be cryed up and down the streets as thy filthy Songs and Ballads and runs to disgrace the Truth but to the Lord who is righteous shalt thou give an account and thou art as Ianes and Iambres that withstood Moses and for all thy hard Speeches and filthy Lyes shalt thou give an Account for to him who is the Searcher of hearts and that in thy Conscience shall bear witness against thee and that we oppose the Word Christ to the written word as thou callst it I charge it upon thee that we do not oppose Christ to the Scripture for Christ is the Word Iohn 1. and this the Scripture doth not oppose but bears witness to him who is the Word and his Name is called the Word of God and this Word became flesh and dwelt among us as the Scriptures witness and the Word of the Lord endures for ever but he doth not say the Letter endures for ever but thou that art accusing us that we do not own a form of sound words here thou shalt be judged out of thy own mouth where readst thou of a written word in the Scripture and here thou shalt be tryed by the Scripture and judged by it that thou art a perverter of the Scripture thou wouldst have more words then one the Word is but one the Word sanctifies Sanctifie them through thy Word but he doth not say the Letter sanctifies And the Word of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting but the Letter is not from everlasting and the Scripture had a beginning and was declared in time and Prophesie shall cease but the Word is from everlasting to everlasting And the Word of the Lord is as a Hammer and as a Fire but the Scripture doth not say that it is as a Hammer and a Fire and yet the Word that he spoke was Spirit and Life yet the Scripture is not Spirit and Life and thou that wouldst set up the Letter in the place of God to try all things and search all hearts thou makest an Idol of it and so opposes God with it and so would bring that to contend against the Lord the which they witnessed through sufferings and I tell thee and all the world the Word is but one and all who knows God hears that Word and it is a Light and a Lanthorn unto their Pathes but that is invisible and eternal and what the Saints did witness of this Word they declared 1 Iohn and the Scripture is true and bears true record and testimony of the Word and they were true Witnesses of the Word of Life that wrote it and it is a true Declaration or Testimony of those things that are certainly believed Luke 1. of the which they saw and heard and tasted and all who come to know the Word of the Lord reads it again and sees it as it is written and further thy envy and shame is made manifest that thou wouldst accuse and yet thou sayst whatsoever they call the word it is perfectly false and not truth here thou would judge and yet thou canst not tell what we call the Word but at last concludes its false whatever it be and here thou blasphemes and callest Christ Jesus in whom is all truth false for no other Word I own but Christ and the Scripture speaks of no Word of God but one and thou that wouldst make the Letter the Word it self shall judge thee and thou makest much mincing and arguments in thy carnal reason and sayst the ground of error is ignorance of the Scripture and thou bringst Mark and Matthew alas I know what Mark and Matthew wrote is true if thou hadst an ear to hear the ground of all error is because he is not known nor his voice whom the Scriptures bear record of and thou sayst we drive men into darkness that works upon people to dis-esteem the Scripture and perswades people to an uselessness of the Scriptures let all that have heard us in the City of London or elsewhere speak if they heard us say the Scriture was useless or did dis-esteem it but on the contrary we exhorted them to search if the Scripture did not bear witness to those things we declared and so let shame cover thy face thou false Accuser and thou bringst 2 Tim. 3. 17. that it is for the perfecting the man of God and that its profitable to correct and instruct this is owned but it s not the man of God thou wouldst have perfected by it but such Hirelings as thy self hath been and false Accusers as thou art and I say it is profitable to us to reprove thee and correct thee and read thy portion a Lyars portion is in the Lake and as Rom. 15. 4. its not denyed but as Christ Jesus is witnessed who is the Comforter which the Scripture bears witness of there is comfort and hope and thou sayst the Scripture proves the New birth and teacheth perseverance to the end It bears testimony of some that did witness the New birth and that persevered unto the end but what is this to thee that never came one step in the way and as for promises there is no
which I know will never own nor practice these things She also saith She did oppose those Principles which led to looseness either in conversation or in slighting the Churches or Ordinances of Christ though she believes such Principles naturally follow the others I answer She did and doth oppose the Principle of God which would have led her out of pride and lust into an holy conversation and out of false Churches into the Church which is in God And I charge her here that she believes Lyes and utters what she believes which is Blasphemy who saith she believes that wicked Principles naturally follow the three named by her And whereas she saith As to that Principle of waiting she could yet never come up to it in practice in private duties she could not stay so long from duty till she had such a power but did frequently go to duty when she had it not I answer Here I do believe her she speaks truth with her lying spirit she never yet could wait upon God to act for him but hath run in her own will which is abomination to him which is no acting for God but for self and for the Devil and here hath she shut her self out from the holy men of Gods practice who waited upon him to be led by him by the power of his Spirit and she shews her self openly to all that she went to that which she calls duty in her own power and time and knew not the power of God nor his time to be acted in and all her Duties as she calls them is no more but imagined and imitated from the letter without acted by the Serpents strength and wisedom in her and she hath here plainly discovered that she knows not what waiting upon God is in truth and sincerity She saith She thought sometime she had had it and saith she thought she had had communion with God I answer Her thoughts I do deny who call truth deceit and she did as now she doth live in thoughts and conceivings by which she is beguiled that spirit which rules and speaks in her never had communion with God but is contrary to him nor never was acted in the truth of God but against him She saith She knew no scripture-Scripture-ground for the practice of waiting to be acted by the power of the Spirit and led to duty I answer The Saints ground of acting is not the outward letter but the Spirit which gave forth the letter but the Scripture doth declare of such as waited to be acted by the Spirit and Power of the Lord Dare any say the Saints Prayed or Propresied without the movings of the Spirit and Power of the Lord here she hath shut her self among the Heathens who knows not God nor what it is to be acted by his Spirit and Power She speaks of losing her peace and having little or no communion with God nor scarce any thing to speak to or for God I answer True peace in Christ she never knew for there is no peace to the wicked neither have any who denies waiting upon God as she hath done any communion with God nor nothing to say to or for God but through deceit and in deceit is I. Turner That which brought her into trouble and let her see the confusion Which she speaks of which she had lived in before but saw it not till then that Witness I own and it shall witness for the Lord and the Truth of what I say eternally though she have slain the Witness yet it shall arise to her condemnation and her everlasting misery And whereas she saith Some laboured to perswade her it was a dispensation of God and that the Saints after brought out of Egypt must be in the Wilderness before they come to Canaan I answer I bear witness by the eternal Spirit the truth of this particular as having witnessed the same condition and she which hath denied this to be of God hath openly shewed her self to be of the Devil denying the truth of Scriptures She saith this did not at all satisfie her but she continued in a sad condition I answer She here hath shewed what spirit she is of of the viperous Generation which fled the wrath which came upon her and could not abide the judgement and of the spirit of them which would have been back in Aegypt which murmured and therefore with them she entered not but i◠perished with them in the Wilderness Whereas she saith She was never so troubled with temptations as at that time I answer Here she hath shewed her self to be the stony ground which when temptation came withered away She speaks of a particular temptation which was Questioning the Being of God I answer That which was troubled wrought the temptations and not that which troubled and here she shews her ignorance which cannot discern the ground of temptation but layes it upon God which is basphemy for he tempts none to evil Whereas she saith this was the 〈◊〉 fruit of her straying from the pure wayes of Truth I answer Here again she shews her blindness who knows not that temptations are for good That which she calls straying from the pure wayes of truth is otherwise for the stronger man came to dispossess the strong man and then began the war and happy had she been if she had patiently endured to the end but not abiding under the judgement but starting aside she is cast out and must not enter for the second Beast whose deadly wound is healed is alive which makes war with the Lamb which exerciseth all the power of the first Beast and here I. Turner is under the dominion of the second Beast She speaks of blessing God that she strayed no further I answer She who hath denied to wait unto Prayer and Praises but prayeth in her own strength and time her Praise is abomination to the Lord and she calls that straying from God which was leading unto God and so hath forsaken the right way and hath cast the way of God behind her back and resisted him who would have led her out of darkness and out of confusion Whereas she speaks of God remembring her To which I answer he will remember her to plague her who hath brought dishonour to his great Name and hath called his way the way of error and of deceit and his real Truth a shew or notion she hath chosen her own way the way of destruction Whereas she speaks being turned from owning these particulars she was restored to those joyes that once she had I answer She is returned with the Dog to the vomit and with the Sow to her wallowing in the mire and there 's her joy and she now joys in the earthly dust in Forms and Traditions and likenesses of things and knows not what it is to joy in God the Substance as by her writings it is made manifest who hath denied Salvation by Christ within and hath denied to wait upon God for the Power of his Spirit and
the end and numbred thy work into a total sum which is a secret smiting and obscure shooting against the Manifestation or Belief of Christ within which there can be no Salvation without as I have proved and in words only I find thee exalting Christ without and worshipping the name of Mary like the Pope I have good ground so to judge And whereas thou callest the Doctrine of Christ within false Opinions and takeâ—â— in hand to discover it as in Page 203. I say to all honest men who have but any knowledge of the Letter of the Scripture thou art hereby sufficiently discovered who callst the chief thing which is the chief unto Salvation and without which can be none false Opinions God shall judge thee thou wicked heart and much more I need not say but shall leave this to the view of any that are honest to judge so have gone through thy Book and passed by many things only I have spoken to that in which thou hast treated any thing upon us and the Truth I have cleared from many Lyes and Slanders and thy Vail of false Reproaches is rent and our Innocency doth partly appear and thy vail of Hypocrisie is a little removed and thy deceitfull heart weighed and seen And as for the rest of thy Book whicg I have not medled with thus much I say of it I suppose you will confess it was all given forth by one spirit and it is proved some of it is given forth by a lying spirit then let the Reader judge what the rest of it can be though the words be true yet is thy spirit false and at the best what thou hast said is but bearing false witness as to thy self of a true thing I own the words and I deny the voice and here I deal plainly with thee Thou then askst a Question Doth not the Scripture speak of Christ within unto which I further add answer it as thou canst Doth not the Scripture say Christ is within except you be Reprobates And is not this thus much all are reprobate but they in whom Christ is within Answer iâ— plainness and darken not knowledge by words without wisdom And towards the end I find thee making up the sum of thy wickedness with this numbring the Quakers with Ranters Sin Death and the Devil I will not bring a railing Accusation against thee but the Lord rebuke thee thou unclean spirit who hast falsly accused the Innocent to clear thy self from guilt but at thy door guilt lodges and I leave it with thee clear thy self if thou art able And thy wicked Reproaches we patiently bear till the Lord appear for us and we are not greater then our Lord who was said to have a Devil by thy Generation and their measure of wickedness thou fulfils and art one of the Dragons Army against the Lamb and his Followers and thy Weapons are Slanders and thy Refuge is Lyes and thy work is confused and hath hardly gained a name in Babylons Record and by us so much of it at least as is against us is cast by as our spoiled prey and trampled upon in all thy reproachfull speeches who art unclean and of more price to us is thy hatred and envy then thy love can be except the gâ—und were better in which you stand Now a few words I may write in Answer to the Queries in the end of thy Book which thou directst thus Some Questions to the Quakers or a few Queries to those possessed with a Spirit of delusion in this Generation Question 1. If sayst thou that every man hath a measure of the Spirit of Christ within him why say the Scriptures That some are sensual having not the Spirit aâ—â— Christ saith The World cannot receive it John 14. Answ. Some men are sensual and have not the Spirit because they received it not some cannot receive it because they believe not in him from whence it comes yet is the measure of the Spirit given unto every man to profit withal as the Scripture saith And it is given to within him to reprove him of sin but few do receive it and when thou canst learn to distinguish between a thing being given and a receiving of such a thing then thou mayst be answered in thy self It is one thing in God to give the Spirit and another thing in the Creature to receive it He gives it to many that receive it not to follow it and to be guided by it thus far I answer and let them that are led with a spirit of Delusion answer thee further Qu. 2. What is the Church of God redeemed by from under the Law is it by something that is done within them or by something done without them If it be redeemed by something that worketh in them then why did the man Christ Iesus hang upon the Cross in Mount Calvery without the Gates of Jerusalem for the sins of his People and why do the Scriptures say That through this man is preached unto us forgiveness of sins c. Answ. The Church of God is redeemed by Christ Jesus which is revealed within all that believe and Christ Jesus wrought in them mightily and it was he that wrought in them to will and to do this is plain according to Scripture And the man Christ Jesus was hanged upon the Cross on Mount Calvery because they wickedly judged him to be a Blasphemer and through their envy persecuted him to death because he bore witness against them and as in their account he died and hanged upon the Cross for an Evil-doer and this is one ground at least why he hanged upon the Cross and the Scriptures say That through this man is preached the forgiveness of sins because there is no other that can forgive sin nor the blood of any other thing that can take away sin but the Blood of God as it is written And thus far I answer If thou wilt have more seek it from them who are led with a spirit of Delusion Qu. 3. What Scripture have you to prove that Christ is or was crucified within you risen within you ascended within you Answ. There is no Scriptures that mention any one of our particular names and thy Query is raised from thy mis-understanding of us so I judge but Christ is within us that we dare not deny and he is the Lamb that was slain in the streets of the great City which is spiritually called Sodom and Aegypt mind spiritually and he is now risen and ascended this we know through Faith in his Name And I leave thee to receive a fuller Answer from them that are led with a spirit of Delusion if they will give it thee Qu. 4. Is that very man that was crucified on Mount Calvery between two Thieves whose Name is Iesus the Son of Mary is he the very Christ of God ye or nay Answ. Yea he is the very Christ of God which was before the World was by whom the World was made who was made
a blind Ministry which leadeth not unto God but keeps in Darkness ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the Truth And in thy Page ninteenth Thou hast put forth a Question which is How shall we know this transformed Angel of Light c To which I answer Where he rules he is not known nor discerned for the god of the World hath blinded the eye which should make him manifest and this is true in thee who art led by him and perceivest it not and art doing his work and understandest not but the brightness of the coming of the Son of Man in the Children of the Father hath discovered him in the World and in thee and though thou woulst fain put him among the Quakers yet he is found in thy own house thou endeavourest to prove thy Accusation by vain consequence and false conclusions but our Assertion is proved by the Spirit of God and stands upon thy head and shall be witnessed by the Light in thy own Conscience Now something in answer to thy Arguments and false Conclusion And thy first Argument is That the Light of the Quakers will not admit of nor endure the Trial therefore the Light of the Quakers is the light of Satan c. Answ. Thy proposition and ground of thy Argument is a Lye and so thy conclusion is to no purpose for we deny not a Trial but exhort People thereunto that they search the Scripture to see whether these things be not so and are tried by the Scriptures in Doctrine and Conversation and proved to be simple thereby to be in the Truth as it is in Jesus and are testified of in Scripture by the Holy men of God who are unto us a Cloud of Witnesses in our Faith and Life and Sufferings and Tryals c. Friend thou hast fained a Lye upon us and hast confuted thy own Lye this is an easie way to prove us Deceivers if it would stand in trial neither is thy proof That wâ— do deny tryal any wit to this purpose as I. N. against F. Harris Page the tenth which thou quotest let the honest hearted read but subtilly hast thou wrested the words to bring thy false Conclusion and Lye about to take place among the ignorant People Thy Lye is condemned and thy refuge is taken away and thou art left naked for the Destroyer Thy second Argument is The Light of the Quakers putteth out the Light of Nature therefore their Light is the light of Satan c. Thou sayest by the Light of Nature thou meanest the inward Law which God set up in the heart of all mankind châ—â—king many sins against God and man c. Answ What blind confusion is this which is uttered from thy dark mind no whit savory but stuff hardly worth stirring in and quite contradiction to thy own words Page fifteen where thou chargest us with directing to the Light in the Conscience which thou callest Natural but we call it Spiritual and this is it which cheeks the sins against God which thou sayest our Light puts out and that we preach any thing for Light which puts out this light which is the work of the Law of God written in the heart this Argument is also a Lye and so thy conclusion is made void likewise but that the Knowledge and Wisdom and Prudency of the natural man which is corrupted must be put out this we own and the Quakers Light which is the Light of Christ shall confound the Wisdom of the World and be no transgression against God nor from a light of Satan but of Christ and the proof of thy Argument is as thou sayest Wâ— deny honour to all Superiours and seemest to be greatly offended with the word Thou quoting many Scriptures against it but let the wise in heart judge thee herein none of all these Scripture will prove that ever any of the Saints gave flattering Titles unto men or spoke You to a particular Person which thou art to prove or else thou sayest nothing that the word Thou to Superiours is any denying of honour due unto them and herein thy conclusion is also false being the foundation of thy Argument is a Lye and thy Argument made up of confusion saying That Light is Natural which is the inward Law set up in the heart checking the sins against God and man this is one Lye also saying That our Light puts out the Light This is another Lye Friend if Lyes would prove us Deceivers thou wouldst accomplish it How easie a thing it is for thee to confute thy own Lyes when thou hast made them Thy third Argument is Such is the Quakers Light viz. which teacheth men to forsake the Scriptures setting up a spirit in man which shall not be examined by the Scriptures therefore it is the light of Satan c. Answ. The first part of thy Argument is a very Lye and also the last as thou hast laid it down our Light teacheth not men to forsake the Scriptures but into the fulfilling of them to walk in the Life of them and it teacheth to exalt the Spirit of God in man above all things and in its fruits and opperation may be examined by the Scriptures but it self is the Searcher of all things even of the deep things of God and this is not the Light of Satan but of Christ which teacheth men into the fulfilling of the Scriptures and to exalt the Spirit in man which gave forth the Scriptures which is the trial of all spirits and whatsoever conclusion be gathered for an Argument whereof a Lye is the foundation as of this the conclusion must needs be vain and a Lye like its foundation And in thy proof of the major position thou sayest The Scriptures are left by God to be your Light and Rule c. And the Scriptures say Christ is the Light the Way the Truth and the Life and so the Rule and so thou hast set up the Scriptures above Christ and by thy lying spirit crosseth the Scriptures but thou art accustomed to Lye and so art expert therein And thou sayest Christ bids you seâ—â—câ— the Scriptures Iohn 5. 39. It is true he bids the Pharisees who had not Christ Word abiding in them and who had not heard God's Voice nor seen his Shape but persecuted Christ them he bad search the Scriptures and justly hast thou thrâ—â—â— in thy self among the Pharisees and so art an Enemy to Christ according to thy own confession And for the proof of the minor position thou hast not at at 〈◊〉 proved by any way of the Books quoted thy proposition That the Quakers Ligâ—â— teacheth men to forsake the Scriptures c. Let the wise in heart judge And thou sayst But to speak truly The Quakers make nothing of Scriptures c. This is the very falsness and of thy lying tongue and no truth in it and a Question here I ask Whether he be the more guilty of forsaking Scriptures which live the Life thereof
froth proceeds out of thy mouth for this Argument comprehends thee and stands out of thy reach for all thy detestable speeches against me and the truth and the rest of my following words thou hast passed by where I say who owns not that which convinceth of sin how can they own him that takes it away by his Blood and this is truth and tell me in â—ustâ—ess according to my first Query in that page how is sin taken away â—â—om thee more then from the Pope seeing neither of you hath the fruit of ceasing to commit sin And art not thou in the froth who opposes me as though I should say yet never did nor thought that justification must be sought by the deeds of the Law and so gathers a false conception and fights with it and keeps thy self doing in nine sheets against four and yet hast passed over many speciall things almost the chiefest and though no flesh shall be justified by the deeds of the Law yet must all flesh living be condemned for the transgression of the Law by Christ who freely gives Life to all that believes if thou hast an ear thou mayst hear in the next thou seemst or wouldst at least to defend thy self from my charge which shall if it doth not lie heavy upon thee which is that I call thee Slanderer and truly too from thy words where thou falsly accused the Qunkers with boasting and Hypocrisie and in thy answer thou sayst I need not be offended for thou dost not know our fellow for boasting in that thou sayst we â—ryâ—p our selves and condemn all others c. But this is no proof of the former Accusation but an addition to thy former wickedness let honest men consider I asked thee when thou didst hear any of them boast or see them live in Hypocrisie but not a word to this sober desire but adds sin to sin a bad way to clear thy self and thy God Be ashamed for crying up self we deny but yet must say or else say falsly That we are of God and the whole World lies in wickedness and he that is of God heareth us and is one with us and this is as the Saints testified and is neither boasting nor Hypocrifie then to my question which was Will that Faith which is without works justifie and thou sayst no c. Then I Reply what is thy condition and theirs who are not only without works of faith but in thy very work of darkness as Lying and false Accusing c. And seeing thou sayst no Consider whether thou hast faith and whether thy works which are like good workes proceed not from the unbeleiving ground and this I add to my next I asked which thou hast passed by must not every one receive according to their deeds in the day of Judgement and then thou runs out in high words against me in that I said if to talk of him Christ his Birth Blood c. Were Faith in him and living by faith then few would want it and further I add the Pope himself would have it and my words are just and honest without exception or contradiction but only that something thou must needs say though thou say many can talk of Christ that will fall short of Heaven c. And asks me a question and fayst Is there not enough in them 〈◊〉 Birth Blood c. to justifie c. I answer the knowledge of all things whatsoever without will not justifie except Christ be within and if he be within the power of his Life Blood Birth c. is known and received and felt and in this I preach not any other Gospel then the Apostles who said Say not who shall ascend or descend to fetch him Mark but what saith it the Word of Faith or of the Gospel which are not divided is nigh thee in thy mouth and in thy heart And thou falsly again charges the Quakers with corrupting and beguiling mâ—y by those Scriptures Reply Beguiling is thy own and corrupting of Scriptures too as is proved and whilst thou accuses us falsly in these things thy self art proved truly guilty in the sight of all that are spiritual and as to thy charging me That the man Christ Iesus is not very pleasant to me And with Scoulding c. Thy slanders I bear with patience and thy reproaches which is not for evil but for Christs sake who dyed at Ierusalem and is revaeled in me and for shâ—… cease to say Thou art ruled by Scripture a Lyar and Slanderer and Preverter of Scriptures is not led with the Spirit that gave forth the Scripture but is ruled by the Devil and is out of Scripture rule then thou goes on and wouldst justifie thy ignorant saying How are they deceived who own Christ no otherwise then as he was before the World began c. And my answer to it thou hast not touched nor truly contradicted which stands over thee and is sufficient to all honest people and Christ we own the same yesterday to day for ever and doth believe the Father granted that request and he is glorified with the same glory that he had before the World was and though thou tell me of a double meaning yet in plainness I speak without doubleness the fault is in thy weakness and sottishness and blindness of heart who knoâ—… not that which is infinite and immortal and eternal the flesh of Christs body is so Then thou falsly charges me again in that I said if every spirit be of God which doth in words confess thus viz. that Christ was with the Father before the World was was born and suffered in the flesh and was buried and raised c. then is not the Pope himself Antichrist c. As in my fourteenth page whiâ—… putting on a vail and ventering upon thy words But I have spoken the truth herein let that in thy Conscience answer in nakedness without a vail the vail is on thy heart thou canst not understand me and so this is thy simple policy to say the vail is on me and what of that if 〈◊〉 ventred on it it is but in the fear of God though I should say I deny all thâ—… thou sayst or the speaking of any thing for I do not own thy voice though some of thy words be true and though thou speak words of truth yet therefore I reprove thee and sometimes may not let it pass for truth for Christ is my example herein who reproved the Devils though they confessed him Mark that but the chief part of my words are passed over and read over again and see if it is not truth it self where I said It is not much better nor more accepted to confess Christ in words to be come and yet in works to deny him theâ—… it is both in words and works to deny him the one is wicked in prophaneâ—… the other in Hypocrisie the one is a Lyar and the other a false Witness and let the honest Judge then
the Word And though they press people to Perfection and do say Men 〈◊〉 be pâ—…ect upon Earth and compleat in Christ Iesus This Doctrine also is according to the Scriptures for you may read 1 Cor. chap. 2 6. of 〈◊〉 that were perfect who were men upon Earth and the Ministâ—â—â— of Christ spoke Wisdom among them that were already perfect And Col. 2. 10. the Apostle saith unto the Church who were men in this Life upon Earth he saith to them Ye are Compleat in him And though they press the people to live without sin and do say They that are born of God do not commit sin This also is according to the Scripture for it is Christ's Command Mat. 5. Be perfect as yâ—â—r Faâ—â—er in Heaven is perfect And 1 Iohn 3. there it is spoken of some that were the Sons of God already and he saith Whosoever is born of God â—oth not commit sin for he cannot sin because he is born of God and saith 〈◊〉 As he is Christ so are we in this present World And now all people may understand that in all these Doctrines which they do hold forth they do fully agree with the Scriptures and they beâ—â—â—…ness to the Truth of their Doctrines that the Servants of God and the Apostles of Christ did preach the very same things for Doctrine aâ—…done at this day and so these Doctrines are not to be wondred at not so much as they are by the wicked to be cryed against for 〈◊〉 and error and these few particulars onely I have mentioned at which the people of this Age the most stumble at and all other things whatsoever which is held forth for Doctrines unto people I am able to prove them by the Scriptures that in all things they are according to the Scripture and not different or contrary to the Scriptures so 〈◊〉 all people may take notice and see that whatsoever they do practice for Religion or hold forth for Doctrine they do herein justly according to the Scriptures and they justifie their Practices and Doctrines in these things mention'd and in whatsoever else can be objected by any man And this I shall take in hand to prove before all the World That the People of God called Quakers do practice nothing for Religion or preach for Doctrine but what is perfectly according to the Scriptures of the Old and New Testament and in the fulfilling of them and so they are proved to be of that True Christian Religion which is according to the Scriptures and so may fully claim Protection and Preservation in their Practice of Religion And this is to be consider'd by the Protector and all Magistrates and People in these Nations that they may know what the true Christian Religion is and who is in it and who is not in it and for this purpose is this written for the satisfaction of all people that they may see who it is that hath a Right and Priviledge to be protected and upholden by vertue of the Oath Likewise all may understand That what such practice and profess for Religion is not without good Ground but that the very same things were practized by them that were of the true Christian Religion and preached for Doctrine by them that were Saints which is now practiz'd and held forth by the People of God and the Scriptures do fully bear witness in all things shewing that such are guided by the same Spirit which the Saints were guided by in Ages past and as they had so have these the Testimony That they are of God and that the whole World lies in Wickedness And as concerning their being persecuted by many of the Rulers Priests and People though they be sent to Prison and banished out of Towns and whipped and beaten and scorned and reviled this is also according to the Scriptures and the Scripture is fulfilled upon them for the same things were done to the Apostles and to the Servants of the Lord as you may read through the Acts the people mocked the Apostles and slandered them and said they were full of new Wine and the chief Priests conspired against Christ and the Apostles and incensed the Magistrates against them and the Magistrates put Christ and many of the Apostles in Prison and caused them to be whipped and beaten and to be banished and many other cruelties done unto them the Scripture is full to prove this from the beginning to the end of it and Christ said They shall persecute you and speak all manner of evil of you for my Name sake and as they have done unto me so shall they do 〈◊〉 you ye shall be hated of Nations And the Apostle said All that will give godly in Christ Iesus shall suffer persecution So that all people may see though the people of the Lord be persecuted and reviled and imprisoned and cruelty done unto them and though it be done by the chief Magistrates and chief Rulers and the wise men of this Age all this is according to the Scriptures and that the Scriptures might be fulfilled and the same things which are now done unto the people of God were done unto the people of God in Ages past by the same Instruments to wit the Rulers and Magistrates and by the same means to wit by the information and false accusations of the chief Priests and Teachers in Ieremiah you may read how the Priests sought to take away his Life and you may read how the chief Priests consulted against Christ and how they complain'd to the Magistrates against him and the Apostles and the same things are now come to pass and we do not strange at it for they are the chief Priests of England that do most seek the Persecution and cause the People of God to be persecuted by their complaining and petitioning to the Magistrates so that in all these things not only what is practised and preached for Doctrine but also in what is suffered is perfectly according to the Scriptures and all people that are not blind may see that this Religion is in all things agreeable with the Scriptures both in what they do and in what they suffer so that this is given forth for the good Information of the Protector and all Magistrates that they may hear the Tryal of all things and may not falsly conjecture or suppose and thereupon give Judgement without any true Knowledge let them search the Scriptures and try I hope the worst of men have so much Conscience that they will stand in owe of the Breach of their own Oaths and that they will perform unto the Lord and unto all men what they have firmly and not compell'd sworn to do and thus it may be hoped the wâ—… Persecution will cease which is lamentable to be declar'd how the People of the Lord have suffer'd in many things even them whose Religion is proved to be according to the Scriptures who practice nothing for Religion neither hold forth any thing for Doctrine but that which is
any honest man that is Spiritual who hath an Understanding to judge hereof Now I suppose themselves none of them are so ignorant as they will say The Scriptures are that WORD which was in the Beginning and which shall Endure forever But say they the Scriptures are another Word a Declarative Word or such like termes Now when we dispute or contend with any about the Word of God we dispute what that Word is which the Scripture saith is the Word and do deny that Word to be the Scriptures Writings though still we do own the Scriptures a Declaration of that very WORD of GOD and that the Scriptures in any place do call themselves the Word or signifie so much I do deny it and it is left for any of our Opposers to prove it that can if they do I will confess it to be the Word and revoke all that I have spoken to the contrary And as for thy Deductions and Consequences drawn from my words I do deny them for they are not to me but will turn upon thy self for thou sayest A strange kind of Assertion as if nothing of the Mind Will and Counsel of God were declared in the Scripture And whitherto can be the tendency of such giddy Doctrines then to a weakening of the Authority of the Scriptures and begetting Slightings and undervaluing Thoughts and that the effects may be lightly esteeming the Scriptures These and such Deductions hast thou drawn through thy Ignorance from my words from all which I am clear as having no Intent to any such things nor any Intent but to testifie to the Pure Innocent TRUTH And thy Deductions are far more ignorant and impudent then my Assertion is strange and let thy Consequences be what they will from my words the truth of my words will justifie me in the Sight of God and his Saints for I do honour the Scriptures above other Writings and give them the Authority and Esteem and Respect due unto them and more I dare not And some of thy pages I pass over as not worth taking notice of only I do say Thou hast wronged me in not relating so much as was spoken by us by far and in relating more then was spoken by thee or thy Party And the next thing I note is this where R. G. said he would and went about to prove That the Letter is the Word of God but was not nor is ever able to prove and thou hast changed the words of his Argument in thy Relation from what they were as he laid them down in the Dispute from called to owned for thus his words were laid down at that time said he That which Christ and the Apostles called the Word of God is indeed the Word of God but Christ and the Apostles called the Scriptures the Word of God Ergo. Now I denied and do yet that it can be proved That ever Christ and the Apostles called the Scriptures the WORD of GOD and neither do thy Proofs now nor his then of the minor Proposition prove That the Scriptures viz. the Writing were ever called the Word although it be true that the Pharisees made the Word of God of no Authority by their Traditions But that Scripture doth not say That the Letter is the Word which thing he was to prove or else he said nothing to the purpose And as to the other Scripture 1 Thes. 1. 13. that will not prove that the Apostle called the Letter the Word for it was the Gospel which they received as the Word of God and not the Letter The Gospel is the Word of God not denied by me but sealed unto but the Gospel is not the Letter and Writings but the Gospel is the Thing written of and that is it which the Apostle means to be the Word of God for that is the Word which he preached to the Thessalonians and which they received And so thy Arguments and Proof of thy minor Position is deny'd and so the major Position falls to the Ground And by this nor any other Argument can all you Priests of England prove the Letter of the Scriptures to be the Word of God which thing R. G. took in hand to prove but could not and would have cry'd against it in me as a great deal of Heresie for denying it but Error is fallen upon his own Head The next thing I note is in pag. 13. where thou wouldst seem to cover over R. G. thou sayest his words were not That I had the thing signified in my hand when I had the Bible but that I had that which declares of it Now to justifie him in Evil thou hast wronged me and the Truth for he did say when I held up my Bible I had in my hand the thing herein signified upon this very Occasion I holding up my Bible in my hand and saying to this very effect That in my hand I had the thing which did signifie in words of such and such things but I had not the thing signified And Richard Goodgrom made answer and said But I had the Thing signified and this some can witness Whereupon I made answer and said If it be so that I have the Thing signified in my hand then I have God and Christ and the Spirit and Heaven and Hell and Men and Beasts and all things that herein are written of and then he saw the Folly of his own Ignorance I perceive And much more might be related as upon this Subject which was said on both Parties which I desire not much to recollect only what I have said I can certainly remember and can justifie it And I must confess that Philip Taverner hath done pretty fairly though in some things he hath not done so And no was to the next thing charged against me in the Relation being placed the second though it is the third That evil Motions not consented to were not sin In the first private Meeting I remember my words were laid down thus and so I own'd them in the Dispute That Temptations or Motions unto evil are not sin to any man who doth not consent and obey to serve Temptations or evil Motions and they are not sin to the man except they be consented to by the man and this was proved in the Example of Christ who was tempted of the Devil and had motions to do evil yet did not consent nor commit sin for he resisted and overcame the Tempter and so the Devil's Motions and Temptations which were sin in themselves yet they were not sin to Him And this Proof then they could not deny neither can any sober or upright Man And so in the Dispute the thing was put to a farther Question thus But are not those Motions which arise out of a Man 's own Heart Sin except they be consented to To which I was willing to speak something and to own the very TRUTH and to justifie that there is a State wherein Evil Motions may rise out of a Man 's own Heart which are
tell us plainly Are you Redeem'd from Pâ—… 〈◊〉 are you such as oppress the Seed as Pharoah did And tell us who was the Inâ—… of â—…our Images and who was the Former of all your graven Images 〈◊〉 not they all invented and come up since the Apostles dayes which ye have 〈…〉 and what is Purgatory and from what had it its rise and original 〈◊〉 what ground have you out of Scripture for such a doctrine And what is the 〈◊〉 of Faith and what 's Faith and what doth it give victory over and what 〈…〉 it over come and what is the â—aiâ— that hath bin spread over all Nations and 〈◊〉 is the Mountain of the House of God and what are those Mountains the 〈…〉 shall seek to cover themselves under and what are those Mountains that people expect Salvation from in vain and did not Iohn come to throw down the â—…ins and what are the Mountains that he came to throw down and what is the Valley he came to raise up answer us And what is the Sword of the Spirit and whether have ye the Sword of the spirit and the Spiritual Armour and what is youâ— Church defended and upâ—…d by Spiritual Weapons or Carnal are not your Goals carnal Weapons 〈◊〉 your Inquisitions and your killing people aboue Religion are not all these 〈◊〉 Weapons and had ever the Church of Christ such Weapons answer 〈…〉 plainly And do you not expect the Lord will suddenly plead with you and are not 〈◊〉 them that put off the Day of the Lord and cause the Seat of Violence to come near and are not ye them that have Eyes but see not Earâ— but hear 〈◊〉 Hearts and understand not and is not your Eye blind that should see God's Presence and your Ears stopped that should hear his Voice â—nd have 〈◊〉 heard his Voice and seen his Shape if you have what is he like answer 〈◊〉 And what is his Word and where doth it dwell in your hearts or is it without you and can any thing without you purifie you and take away sin 〈◊〉 of your Hearts and must not Christ be within and what are the Fruits and Signs and Marks of a Saint and why do you go Pilgrims to visit 〈◊〉 Bones what is the reason of it and who was the first that â—â—tuted it 〈◊〉 what is the meaning of your holy Water give us Scripture for all these 〈…〉 ces or else the Power of the Lord will tear you to pieces and lay open 〈◊〉 Foundation and none that love God can joyn unto you And can any o◠〈…〉 pardon Sin truly that it shall never more be remembred and are not 〈…〉 sins remembred with the Light in your Consciences sometimes and is there 〈◊〉 a Light in your Consciences that doth convince you tell me plainly And whether do you own That Christ hath lightened every one that coâ—… into the World and what is the Light and do you know Christ as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 before Abraham and have you seen his Day as Abraham did and what 〈…〉 Day of Christ doth the Carnal Eye see it give us your Knowledge and 〈◊〉 Judgment in all these things and lay down your Principles at full and 〈…〉 by the Scriptures what you hold and profess if you would have any to 〈…〉 your Religion otherwise renounce your Church and come out of â—… What is Babylon and the Mother of Harlots and what is spirituâ—◠〈…〉 and Sâ—dom where Christ is crucified and what is the Whore and what 〈…〉 flesh that has stain'd the Earth and what is the Fire that must consume her 〈…〉 Many are jealous concerning you that you are not the true Church 〈…〉 you have drunk of the Whore's Cup who hath made all Nations drunk 〈…〉 if that time be come that she hath made all Nations drunk then how 〈…〉 clear your selves being Nations and Multitudes of People To 〈◊〉 these 〈…〉 I expect your speedy Answer And what is the Death that hath raigned over all and how is Man recâ—… out of it and when and what are the Gates of Hell and what is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that they cannot prevail against and whether your Church may never 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vailed against and whether they be not your Inquisitions Stakes and â—… and killing people that do principally defend your Church and if yâ—◠〈…〉 cease your Inquisitions and killing those you call Hereticks whether 〈…〉 not you be prevail'd against by many other Sects Lay away yoâ—… perâ—… of People that you call Hereticks and do not deaf with them after the 〈…〉 which you have done by Inquisitions and such like and only by sound 〈…〉 guments and the Power of the Spirit defend your Religion And dare you suffer a certain number of us to come among you and pâ—…ch what we hold and a certain number of you shall freely come among us 〈◊〉 freely preach what you hold without Persecution or any Violence as we would expect and have the same from you engage man for man with us and 〈◊〉 no otherwise deal with ours then we deal with yours and take the free liberty to deal with our men as we deal with your men but no otherwise and 〈◊〉 each of the Messengers preach and hold forth what they would have and whâ—â— they really hold and believe and convert the most either of them can to theiâ— own Religion and then let all the World see which have the Power and Spirit of God with them and whether your Ministers or our Ministers do turn the more people from you to us or from us to you and send your Answer whether you will agree to the Premises and if you do send your Messengers when you pleaâ—â— and we will engage in the Lord their Persons shall not be harmed but if they were then take Man for Man Life for Life of our Men sent to you and let that God be the true God that appeareth in most Power and Authority and let him be worshipped forever whose Power converts the most to the knowledge of him out of Wickedness and let that Church be the tâ—… Church which cannot be overcome And as you are willing to be made manifest joyn issue with us in this business and propound your own time when the men shall return and whether the continuance of the Matter be for Dayes Moneths or Years and let each of the men return without harm of Person and this will be a way truly to try and make manifest all things to all the World and whether you or we be in the right Way and of the right Church and use 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Weapon against us but the foundest Arguments you can by words according to the Scriptures and the same Weapons we will use against you 〈…〉 other but the Authority of the Spirit of God and Arguments thereby 〈◊〉 shall be according to the Scriptures the Apostles Writings and the â—…ony of the true Church And hereby in the sight of the whole World let your Church and Faith 〈◊〉 Principles and Practices
of Worship and Practices upon people And what do you mean by Godly Ministry Will you admit of just Tryal according to the Scriptures whether yours be that Godly Ministry or no for all sorts of Christians Papists and Protestants and all others they will say That they are in the right Way and their Ministry is the Godly Ministry but the fruits of many prove the contrary and we cannot believe that yours is the Godly Ministry except you will prove it to us by and according to the Scriptures Now it is certain That the Ministry of the Apostles was the true Godly Ministry and if yours agree with theirs then we will confess That yours is the true Godly Ministry Therefore tell us plainly do you agree with them in your Call and in your Maintenance and in your Practices and in your Fruits and Effects in your lives and Conversations and in your Doctrines Are you justly according to and do you agree with the Apostles in all these things shall we lay you to the Line that you may be judged This is but as a hint at things whereby you might justly be tryed for if you agree not with the Apostles in these cases mentioned then it is evident that your Ministry is not the true Godly Ministry but hereafter we may have a better occasion to try you And thus the principal part of your Exhortation is answered and if you can receive it in Love TO all you Sixty One Teachers in London under whose hands your Exhortation passeth this I say to you in the Fear of the Lord God Oh ye Men consider and let it enter into your hearts the Day of the Lord is at hand upon you and an Account of your Stewardship must you give and his Reward must you have whom you have served and you must reap the Fruit of what you have sown Oh look upon your Flocks and see what a condition they are in Oh what Pride and Vain-glory is abounding amongst them Oh how doth Wickedness spring forth from them Are they like unto Sheep of Christ's Fold or Are not they appearing outwardly Christians when as the evil nature is uncut down in them Oh what Wickedness abounds in this City What Double-dealing and Dissimulation What Lying and Swearing and Drunkenness Oh high are all the Fruits of the Flesh grown amongst your Flocks Your Vineyards are not dressed as they ought to be there are aboundance of corrupt Trees and fruitless Branches which cumber the Ground Oh! it makes the Heart of the Righteous sad to walk in the Streets and to view the Abominations that are daily brought forth by a people professing Scriptures Church Ministry and Christ. Oh! it burdens the Just and grieves the Righteous Soul to consider how high Iniquity is grown among the Sheep of your Pastures whom ye should have fed with Knowledge and converted unto the Fear of the Lord had you been Messengers sent of God the very Iews and Heathens they blaspheme against Christ through the Abominations brought forth among Christians that have the Name to live but are dead Oh! let it enter into your Hearts and smite you that your many years Ministry should have so little effect for your Vineyard is like untilled Ground unploughed and unbroken up Oh! there is much Hard-heartedness amongst your People and their Hearts go after Covetousness even while they profess God with their Lips Oh! the Righteous mourn in secret to see the Prophanness the Scornings and Reproaches that are brought forth in your City And Oh the Idolatry that aboundeth let it repent you that you have been so sloathful and never more seek the Fleece but seek the Flock that 's gone astray from the Lord who is the true Shepherd whose Voice hath not been obeyed and many Pastors have destroyed the Vineyard and many Shepherds have fed themselves and not the Flock Oh consider the Day of the Lord is at hand and he will visit with his Rod You and your Flocks prepare to meet the Lord for his Kingdom is nigh to come which will be a terrible Day to all the Workers of Iniquity And as for this your Exhortation I say As for Exhortation in it self Ministers ought to exhort their Flocks so such a thing in it self I do commend and not oppose but when I had read and seriously considered the Aim and Intent of your spirits in your Exhortation I found it secretly and in a measure openly opposing and striking at and secretly smiting the People of the Lord whom you have Reproached by the name of Quakers who are dear to the Lord and he careth for them though you see no Beauty in them but account them altogether vile and in as much as you lifted up your hands against them upon that account was it upon my spirit to return something in Answer for the Information of many that they might be Undeceived and not in Envy towards any but in Love to all to both you and your People and you have occasioned this upon your selves though you are reproved And not as a man of Strife or Contention have I proceeded but as one that desireth the further Manifestation of Truth and that no false Accusation may rest upon it which you have secretly brought forth with which the Lord is not well-pleased that you should set your selves in Opposition against his People and if any of you shall receive a just Reproof and repent it may prove to you an Advantage or much Good and be not so Proud as to say in your hearts What aâ—t thou weak man that reprovest us or Wherefore art thou so bold thus to deal with us but rather fall under just Reproof for in Uprightness of Heart have I proceeded towards you and not in mine own but in the Will of the Father And oh that your Flocks would also consider among whom there are many that are zealous in their way Oh that their Zeal and Judgments were guided by the Spirit of the Lord then should it be well with them Oh that they would be meek and humble and learn the Fear of the Lord Oh that every one of them would consider and turn from their Iniquities and become Followers of Jesus Christ then should the Glory of the Lord be revealed unto them and Peace and Truth and Righteousness should be unto them and their Families and their City if they would come into Covenant with God and be taught of him and be exercised by his Law in their Hearts then should the Countenance of the Lord be upon them and then should they discern between Truth and Error between the Ministers of Christ and Deceivers Oh! there is a Pitty for many poor souls which are zealous in their way of Religion without Knowledge and they think they do God good service while yet their Consciences are not exercised by the Spirit of the Lord but a false spirit that rules and leads and may hold the Truth in unrighteousness and they know not but that they do
because thereof And how easie a thing it is for the present King and Parliament to walk in the same way even to account the true Ministers 〈◊〉 Jesus Christ and his People through want of infallible knowledge Hereticks and Deceivers and Blasphemers and to destroy them on that account while Deceivers may be accounted true Ministers by them even till Gods displeaâ—â—â—â— breaks forth against them to confound them And this is worthy to be consiâ—â—â—ed by them against the evil counsel of wicked men who would lay snarâ—◠〈◊〉 their feet and cast stumbling-blocks before them that they may be taken and fâ—â—â— to their overthrow 6. It is of the Devil the Dragon and Antichrist all this killing and perâ—â—â—â—ting of one Sect by â—nother about Religion since thâ— Apostles days the â—…ts and Witnesses have been slain and all that would not worship the Beast â—…e been killed by the Dragon the Devil and false power as may be read in the â—velations and never any of the true Churches of Christ nor any Memâ—er thereof at any time in or since the dayes of Christ and his Apostles did ever kill or cut off by death nor sought so to do any false Prophet Heretick or Blasphemers the true Christians never proceeded in that way but forgave Enemies and did win their Opposers by sound Doctrine and Conversation or gave them up to Satan and separated from them but nevâ—r killed them but it was the Antichrist the Wolves in Sheep's cloathing that killed about Worship even all that would not Worship The Saints and Martyrs their Blood was shed by the Beast because they would not worship and it was the Whore that hath drunk all this Blood of Prophets and â—ust Men and not the true Church who wars with spiritual Weapons and â—ills Enmity and Powers of Darkness but kills not Persons nor wars with â—arnal Weapons 7. And if they should proceed to kill and cut off by death such as are Hereticks and Deceivers who err in their minds how unjust would that be to destroy the lives of Men for the error of their minds and judgements in spiritual things And this the King and Parliament ought not to do though false Prophets Hereticks and Blasphemers must not escape unpunished but ought to be proceeded against yet not in and by the way of killing and destroying mens lives for that is a Punishment not answerable to the Offence and every Offence ought to have a Punishment just equal and answerable to the Crime and to punish the Body by death for the error of the mind in spiritual things this is not equal nor according to the Spirit of the Gospel but if any shall be destroyed in their Persons or Estates by Cruelty for or because they are in Error of Mind and Judgement in Matters Spiritual or may be supposed so to be it is no less then robbery and murder in the sight of God And let the King consider this and keep his Hands from shedding of Blood on that account lest he provoke the Lord against him And now I come to the second Branch of the Petition where the Petitioner doth request in these words saith he I most humbly beg your Grace that the â—oly Sabbath of the Lord the Christian Sabbath may by your Majesties strict Command be more religiously kept and observed then heretofore c. Answ. I answer to this It is well worthy to be considered by the King 1. That God did indeed command the People of the Iews to keep and observe the seventh day of the week for a Sabbath and that they should not do any manner of work therein they their Servants nor their Cattle but that day â—â—ould be kept holy unto the Lord by them and to this the Prophets and Servants of God in the time of the first Covenant did instruct and exhort upon the Penalty of God's Displeasure against that People of the Iews if they neglected to keep the seventh day of the week Sabbath and upon many the Lord did execute Judgement because thereof onely upon the People of the Iâ—ws for to them onely was commanded the observing the seventh day of the week as a Sabbath as a Sign between God and them 2. That God never commanded the keeping of the seventh day of the week 〈◊〉 a Sabbath to the Gentiles nor to any Nation or People saving onely the Pâ—ople of the Iews of which people we are not this Nation I mean according to the Flesh after the Generation of Men we are not of the Iews 〈◊〉 of the Gentiles and therefore the seventh day of the week was never commanded of God to this Nation to keep as a Sabbath neither can we be conâ—â—mned or judged of the Lord though we keep it not because it was never commanded of God unto us nor to any of the Gentilâ—s nor to any but to the People of the Iews as I have said and it was but a sign to them and Christ fulfilled all shaddows and was the end of the Law and the finishing of the Sabbath dayes and in him that Type was ended 3. That the observing of the first day of the week for a Sabbath which hath been done in this Nation for many Ages is onely by Tradition and not from any Command of God nor binding Example of the Apostles that we read of it is not of Commandment from God or Christ Jesus The first day of the week hath been observed as a Christian Sabbath but from Tradition and original Ordination of the Church of Rome as themselvâ—s do confess and the Protestants have taken it up from them though it is acknowledged that the Scripture saith The Saints and Churches of Christians in the Apostles dayes did meet together on the first day of the week for they that witnessed Christ come did deny Temple-Worship and first Priesthood and Circumcision and Synagogues and Sabbath-dayes which were a shaddow Col. 2. 16 17. and it s said They came together on the first day of the week but that this Practise of theirs is a Command to us at this day or binding Example to any Christians that all must keep the first day of the week as a Sabbath by force and upon such or such Pains Forfeitures and Penalties this I have not learned neither from God nor out of the Scriptures but it is doubtful to many even whether the God of Heaven requireth it now of Christians and Believers the keeping of any one day of the week as a Sabbath of rest from all Labour and to observe that day for Worship and to others it is doubtful if a day the Lord requireth then which day whether seventh day or first day of the week And concerning these Cases there is present Controversie in the minds of many men 4. That to force and compel upon any Nation by violent Laws and Edicts the observing any one day as Sabbath upon such and such Penalties and that onely upon the ground of Tradition and long Custom while the Scriptures in that
practised among the Papists we have no Command or Example for it in all the Scriptures only the Apostle exhorted to confess your faults one to another but no mention of distinction of persons as if there was an Order of men among the Saints Ordained for Confession to be made unto as is among the Papists practised But such kind of Inventions are among them and all that gain-say them in their Wayes must be burned as Hereticks and this is the way that the Papists do uphold their Religion not by sound Arguments and by the Spirit and Power of God but by killing such as will not Believe and Practise as they do Doct. 6. That it is not necessary or profitable to have any Church or Chappel to pray or perform Divine Service in Opposed by the Papists as a great Error Answ. As for the Church it is in God 1 Thes. 1. and the Body of Christ is the Church Ephes. 1. 23. the Saints of Christ that have Believed in the Church of Christ for the Church was in Aquilla's House as may be read and in this Church of Christ wheresoever come together is the Divine Holy Acceptable Service of God performed in the Spirit and in the Truth And as for Houses of Wood and Stone builded and called Churches and Chappels which Papists have builded to perform their Service in these are Idolatrous Places and not true Churches God dwells not in Temples made with Hands as it is written And though a man affirm That God may be worshipped and served as well in any Place as in your Churches and Chappels and that such Places are not necessary but God may be served in other Places This is no Error deserving Fire and Faggot as the Papists do affirm and Practice Doctrines 7. and 8. That burying in the Church-Yard is unprofitable and vain That Holy Dayes Instituted by the Church are not to be observed and kept in reverence in as much as all Dayes are alike Opposed by the Papists as Errors Answ. There is no respect of Places with God neither are the Dead more or less acceptable to him notwithstanding the Place of Burial whether it be on the Land or cast into the Sea if occasion so happen as some times it doth The Patriarchs of old had Places appointed and purchased for Burial of their Dead as it is at this day among the Lord's People but that the Church-yard so called is more Holy than another Place as the Papists do account This we believe not nor can it be proved to us by Scripture or sound Reason And as for Holy Dayes instituted and observed is but a meer Invention of the Romish Church without any ground from the Apostles and it is no sin against God not to observe them and all dayes are as to God alike holy in His sight without respect of one or another And for the Papists to invent Practices without Example in the Scriptures as Religious and then to impose them by force upon all People and to kill and burn such as Hereticks as cannot conform thereunto How Impious Oppressive and Antichristian this manner of work is let all sober People judge And this is but a mocking of God for the Papists to profess Holy Dayes and with a pretence of God's Worship to observe them as Holy when as more Rudeness Drunkenness Wantonness and Ungodliness is usually committed that Day which they profess to keep Holy than is on the other dayes beside And this is manifest to all People that thus the Papists do mock God in their exercise of keeping Holy Dayes Doctrines 9. and 10. That it is sufficient to Believe though a man do no good Works at all That no Humane Lawt or Constitutions do oblige a Christian Opposed by the Papists as Errors Answ. It is sufficient to believe in Iesus Christ and that Believing is a good Work and if a man truly believes he cannot but bring forth by that Faith good Works and it is impossible for a true Believer in Christ but to do good Works if a Man do no good Works he is not a Believer For Faith without Works is dead and that is no true Belief which is without good Works and a Christian one that is truly so is obliged and bound by the Law of God To do all Good and to forsake all Evil and the Laws of men they are subject to them all for Conscience sake by performing them or suffering under them And as for Humane Inventions of the Papists which they bind on the Consciences of Men upon loss of Life or Estate or Damnation These things we say do not oblige the Conscience nor any Laws or Constitutions of men do oblige Christians to Obedience which are not truly grounded upon the Law of God Doct. 11. That God never gave Grace or Knowledge to a great Person or Rich Man and that they in no wise follow the same Answ. This is a false Doctrine for God gave Grace to all The Grace of God which brings Salvation hath appeared unto all men as it is written which Grace teacheth the Saints to deny all Ungodliness and the Wicked turn the Grace of God into Wantonness but the true Knowledge of God is given but to a few and not many Wise men after the flesh are called but God chooseth the Poor and Contemptible as saith Paul to confound the Wise and Mighty of this World and yet God gives Knowledge to Rich and Poor without respect of Persons as it pleaseth Him Doct. 12. That any Lay-man may preach by his own Authority without Licence of the Ordinary Opposed by the Papists as a great Error Answ. All in the true Church and that are of the Church may Prophesie and Speak in the Church one by one as Paul saith without distinction of Titles such as the Papists use Clergy and Lay-men and such like Terms of their own Inventions without Example from the Churches of Christ in the Apostles dayes for the Apostle saith If any thing be revealed to another that standeth by let the first hold his Peace for ye may all Prophesie one by one that all may be edified And again Peter saith As every man hath received of the Gift of the Spirit let him administer the same one to another Thus it is manifest by the Scriptures That every Member of the true Church of Christ may Preach by the Authority of the Spirit of God as that moveth and leadeth and this was the Example of the holy men of God declared in Scriptures Elisha that was a Plow-man and Amos that was a Herds-man and Peter that was a Fisher-man these and such as these whom the Papists would have called Lay-men did Preach and Teach without any Licence from men but as the Lord Commanded them who said Ier. 23. He that hath my Word let him speak my Word faithfully and this without respect of Persons and without distinction of Names of Lay-men or otherwise though contrary to this the Papists would limit the Holy