Force And your Method of using this Force is to punish all the Dissenters from the National Religion and none of those who outwardly conform to it Make this practicable now in any Country in the World without allowing the Magistrate to be Judg what is the Truth that must save them and without supposing also that whoever do imbrace the outward Profession of the National Religion do in their Hearts imbrace i. e. believe and obey the Truth that must save them and then I think nothing in Government can be too hard for your undertaking You conclude this Paragraph in telling me You do not know of any thing I say against any part of this which is not already answered Pray tell me where 't is you have answered those Objections I made to those several Ends which you assigned in your Argument considered and for which you would have Force used and which I have here reprinted again because I do not find you so much as take notice of them and therefore the Reader must judg whether they needed any Answer or no. But to shew that you have not here where you promise and pretend to do it clearly and directly told us for what Force and Penalties are to be used I shall in the next Chapter examine what you mean by bringing Men to imbrace the True Religion CHAP. VII Of your bringing Men to the True Religion TRue Religion is on all hands acknowledged to be so much the Concern and Interest of all Mankind that nothing can be named which so much effectually bespeakâ—… the Approbation and Favour of the Publick The very intitling one's self to that sets a Man on the right side Who dares question such a Cause or oppose what is offered for the promoting the True Religion This Advantage you have secured to your self from unattentive Readers as much as by the often-repeated mention of the True Religion is possible there being scarce a Page wherein the True Religion does not appear as if you had nothing else in your Thoughts but the bringing Men to it for the Salvation of their Souls Whether it be so in earnest we will now see You tell us Whatever Hardships some false Religions may impose it will however always be easier to carnal and worldly minded Men to give even the first-born for their Transgressions than to mortify the Lusts from which they spring which no Religion but the True requires of them Upon this you ground the Neâ—…essity of Force to bring Men to the True Religion and charge it on the Magistrate as his Duty to use it to that End What now in appearance can express greater Care to bring Men to the True Religion But let us see what you say in p. 64. and we shall sind that in your Scheme nothing less is meant there you tell us The Magistrate inflicts the Penalties only upon them that break the Lawâ—… And that Law requiring nothing but Conformity to the National Religion noâ—… but Nonconformists are punished So that unless an outward Profession of the National Religion be by the Mortification of Mens Lusts harder than their giving their First-born for their Transgression all the Penalties you contend sor concern not â—…nor can be intended to bring Men effectually to the True Religion since they leave them before they come to the Difficulty which is to mortify their Lusts as the True Religion requires So that your bringing Men to the True Religion being to bring them to Conformity to the National for then you have done with Force how far that outward Consormity is from being heartily of the True Religion may be known by the distance there is between the easiest and the hardest thing in the World For there is nothing easier than to profess in Words nothing harder than to subdue the Heart and bring Thoughts and Deeds into Obedience of the Truth The latter is what is required to be of the True Religion the other all that is required by Penalties your way applied If you say Conformists to the National Religion are required by the Law Civil and Ecclesiastical to lead good Lives which is the difficult part of the True Religion I answer These are not the Laws we are here speaking of nor those which the Defenders of Toleration complain of but the Laws that put a distinction between outward Conformists and Nonconformists and those they say whatever may be talked of the True Religion can never be meant to bring Men really to the True Religion as long as the True Religion is and is confessed to be a thing of so much greater difficulty than outward Conformity Miracles say you supplied the want of Force in the beginning of Christianity and therefore so far as they supplied that Want they must be subservient to the same End The End then was to bring Men into the Christian Church into which they were admitted and received as Brethren when they acknowledged that Jesus was the Christ the Son of God Will that serve the turn No Force must be used to make Men imbrace Creeds and Ceremonies i. e. outwardly conform to the Doctrine and Worship of your Church Nothing more than that is required by your Penalties nothing less than that will excuse from Punishment that and nothing but that will serve the turn that therefore and only that is what you mean by the True Religion you would have Force used to bring Men to When I tell you You have a very ill Opinion of the Religion on of the Church of England and must own it can only be propagated and supported by Force if you do not think it would be a Gainer by a general Toleration all the World over You ask Why you may not have as good an Opinion of the Church of England's as you have of Noah's Religion notwithstanding you think it cannot now be propagated or supported without using some kinds or degrees of Force When you have proved that Noah's Religion that from eight Persons spread and continued in the World till the Apostles Times as I have proved in another place was propagated and supported all that while by your kinds or degrees of Force you may have some reason to think as well of the Religion of the Church of England as you have of Noah's Religion though you think it cannot be propagated and supported without some kinds or degrees of Force But till you can prove that you cannot upon that ground say you have reason to have so good an Opinion of it You tell me If I will take your Word for it you assure me you think there are many other Countries in the World besides England where my Toleration would be as little useful to Truth as in England If you will name those Countries which will be no great pains I will take your word for it that you believe Toleration there would be prejudicial to Truth but if you will not do that neither I nor any body else can believe you I
Words of your Argument which you complain I have misrepresented and which you tell me runs thus When Men fly from the Means of right Information I ask you here who shall be Judg of those Means of right Information the Magistrate who joins Force with them to make them be 〈◊〉 to or no When you have answer'd that you will have resolv'd a great part of the Question What Magistrates are to use Force But that you may not complain again of my misrepresenting I must beg my Readers leave to set down your Argument at large in your own Words and all you say upon it When Men fly from the Means of a right Information and will not so much as consider how reasonable it is throughly and impartially to examine a Religion which they imbraced upon such Inducements as ought to have no sway at all in the matter and therefore with little or no Examination of the proper grounds of it What Humane Method can be used to bring them to act like Men in an Affair of such consequence and to make a wiser and more rational choice but that of laying such Penalties upon them as may ballance the weight of those Prejudices which inclined them to prefer a False Way before the True c. Now this Argument you tell me I pretend to retort in this manner And I say I see no other Means left taking the World as we now find it wherein the Magistrate never lays Penalties for Matters of Religion upon those of his own Church nor is it to be expected they ever should to make Men of the National Church any where throughly and impartially examine a Religion which they imbraced upon such Inducements as ought to have no sway at all in the matter and therefore with little or no examination of the proper Grounds of it And therefore I conclude the use of Force by Dissenters upon Conformists necessary I appeal to all the World whether this be not as just and natural a Conâ—…clusion as yours And you say you are well content the World should judg And when it determines that there is the same reason to say That to bring those who conform to the National Church to examine their Religion it is necessary for Dissenters who cannot possibly have the 〈◊〉 Power because the National Church has that 〈◊〉 its side and cannot be National without it to use Force upon Conformists As there is to say That where the National Church is the True Church there to bring Dissenters as I call them to examine their Religion it is necessary for the Magistrate who has the Coactive Power to lay moderate Penalties upon them for dissenting You say when the World determines thus you will never pretend any more to judg what is reasonable in any case what soever For you doubt not but you may safely presume that the World will easily admit these two things 1. That though it be very fit and desirable that all that are of the true Religion should understand the true Grounds of it that so they may be the better able both to defend themselves against the assaults of Seducers and to reduce such as are out of the Way yet this is not strictly necessary to their Salvation Because Experience shews as far as Men are capable to judg of such Matters that many do 〈◊〉 believe and profess the true Religion and conscientiously practise the Duties of it who yet do not understand the true Grounds upon which it challenges their Belief And no Man doubts but who soever does so believe profess and practise the True Religion if he perseveres to the end shall certainly attain Salvation by it 2. That how much soever iâ—… concerns those who reject the true Religion whom I may call Dissenters if I please to examine and consider why they do so and how needful soever Penalties may be to bring them to this it is however â—…tterly unreasonable that such as have not the Coactive Power should take upon them to inslict Penalties for that purpose Because as that is not consistent with Order and Government which cannot stand where private Persons are permitted to usurp the Coactive Power So there is nothing more manifest than that the prejudice which is done to Religion and to the Interest of Mens Souls by destroying Government does infinitely outweigh any good that can possibly be done by that which destroys it And whoever admits and considers these things you say you are very secure will be far enough from admitting that there is any Parity of Reason in the Cases we here speak of or that mine is as just and natural a Conclusion as yours The sum of what you say amounts to thus much Men being apt to take up their Religion upon Inducements that ought to have no sway at all in the Matter and so with little or no Examination of the Grounds of it therefore Penalties are necessary to be laid on them to make them throughly and impartially examine But yet Penalties need not be laid on Conformists in England to make them examine because they and you believe yours to be the true Religion Though it must be laid on Presbyterians and Independents c. to make them examine though they believe theirs to be the true Religion because you believe it not to be so But you give another very substantial Reason why Penalties cannot be laid on Conformists to make them examine and that is because the National Church has the Coactive Power on its side and therefore they have no need of Penalties to make them examine The National Church of France too has the Co-active Power on its side and therefore they who are of it have no need of Penalties any of them to make them examine If your Argument be good that Men take up their Religions upon wrong Inducements and without due Examination of the proper Grounds of it and that therefore they have need of Penalties to be laid on them to make them examine as they ought the Grounds of their Religion You must confess there are some in the Church of England to whom Penalties are necessary Unless you will affirm that all who are in the Communion of the Church of England have so examin'd But that I think you will not do however you indeavour to palliate their Ignorance and Negligence in this matter There being therefore a need of Penalties I say 't is as necessary that Presbyterians should lay Penalties on the Conformists of the Church of England to make them examine as for the Church of England to lay Penalties on the Presbyterians to make them do so For they each equally believe their Religion to be true and we suppose on both sides there are those who have not duly examin'd But here you think you have a sure advantage by saying it is not consistent with the Order of Government and so is impracticable I easily grant it But is yours more practicable When you can make
your way practicable for the end for which you pretend it necessary viz. to make all who have taken up their Religion upon such Inducements as ought to have no sway at all in the Matter to examine throughly and impartially the proper grounds of it When I say you can shew your way practicable to this end you will have clear'd it of one main Objection and convinc'd the World that yours is a more just and natural Conclusion than mine If your Cause were capable of any other defence I suppose we should not have had so long and elaborate an Answer as you have given us in this Paragraph which at last bottoms only on these two things 1. That there is in you or those of your Church some Approaches towards Insallibility in your Belief that your Religion is true which is not to be allow'd those of other Churches in the Belief of theirs 2. That it is enough if any one does but conform to it and remain in the Communion of your Church Or else one would think there should be as much need for Conformists too of your Church to examine the Grounds of their Religion as for any others To understand the true Grounds of the True Religion is not you say strictly necessary to Salvation Yet I think you will not deny but it is as strictly necessary to Salvation as it is to conform to a National Church in all those things it imposes some whereof are not necessary to Salvation some whereof are acknowledg'd by all to be indifferent and some whereof to some conscientious Men who thereupon decline Communion appear unsound or unlawful If not being strictly necessary to Salvation will excuse from Penalties in the one case why will it not in the other And now I shall excuse the World from determining my Conclusion to be as natural as yours For 't is pity so reasonable a Disputant as you are should take so desperate a Resolution as never to pretend any more to judg what is reasonable in any case what soever Whether you have proved that Force used by the Magistrate be a Means prescrib'd by God to procure the Gift of Faith from him which is all you say in the next Paragraph others must judg In that following you quote these Words of mine If all the Means God has appointed to make Men hear and consider be Exhortation in season and out of season c. together with Prayer for them and the Example of Meekness and a good Life this is all ought to be done whether they will hear or whether they will forbear To which you thus reply But if these be not all the Means God has appointed then these things are not all that ought to be done But if I ask you How do you know that this is not all God has appointed you have nothing to answer to bring it to your present purpose but that you know it by the Light of Nature For all you say is but this That by the Light of Nature you know Force to be useful and necessary to bring Men into the way of Salvation By the Light of Nature you know the Magistrate has a Commission to use Force to that purpose And by the same Light of Nature you know that Miracles were appointed to supply the want of Force till the Magistrates were Christians I imagine Sir you would scarce have thought this a reasonable Answer if you had taken notice of my Words in the same Paragraph immediately preceding those you have cited Which that you may see the Scope of my Argument I will here trouble you with again and they are these It is not for you and me out of an Imagination that they may be useful or are necessary to prescribe Means in the great mysterious Work of Salvation other than what God himself has directed God has appointed Force as useful and necessary and therefore it is to be used is a way of Arguing becoming the Ignorance and Humility of poor Creatures But I think Force useful or necessary and therefore it is to be used has methinks a little too much Presumption in it You ask what Means is there left None say I to be used by Man but what God himself has directed in the Scriptures wherein are contained all the Means and Methods of Salvation Faith is the Gift of God And we are not to use any other Means to procure this Gift to any one but what God himself has prescribed If he has prescribed appointed that any should be forced to hear those who tell them they have mistaken their way and offer to 〈◊〉 then the right and that they should be 〈◊〉 by the Magistrate if they did not 't will be past doubt it is to be made 〈◊〉 of But till that can be done 't will be in vain to say what other Means is there left My Argument here lies plainly in this That all the Means and Methods of Salvation are contain'd in the Scripture Which either you were to have deny'd or else have 〈◊〉 where it was in Scripture that Force was appointed But instead of that you tell us that God appointed Miracles in the beginning of the Gospel And though when these 〈◊〉 the Means I mention were all the Ministers had left yet this proves not that the Magistrate was not to use Force Your Words are As to the first Spreaders of the Gospel it has already been shown that God appointed other Means besides these for them to use to â—…nduce Men to hear and consider And though when those extraordinary Means ceased these Means which I mention viz. Preaching c. were the only Means left to the 〈◊〉 of the Gospel yet that is no Proof that the Magistrate â—…hen he became Christian could not lawfully 〈◊〉 such Means as his Station 〈◊〉 him to 〈◊〉 when they became 〈◊〉 I said in 〈◊〉 words No Means was to be used by MAN but what God himself has directed in the Scripture And you answer This is no Proof that the Christian Magistrate may not use Force Perhaps when They so peremptorily interpose their decisive Decreas in the Business of Salvation establish Religions by Laws and Penalties with what Articles Creeds Ceremonies and Discipline they think fit for this we see done almost in all Countries when they force Men to bear those and those only who by their Authority are chosen and allow'd 〈◊〉 Men they have mistaken their way and offer to shew them the right it may be thought necessary to prove Magistrates to be MEN. If that needs no Proof what I said needs some other Answer But let us examine a little the Parts of what you here say As to the first Spreaders of the Gospel say you it has already been those that God appointed other Means besides Exhortation in season and out of season Prayer and the Example of a good Life for them to use to induce Men to hear and consider What were those other Means To that you answer
And your Law will reach no body till you have convinced him he is in the wrong Way and then there will be no need of Punishment to make him consider unless you will affirm again what you have denied and have Men punished for imbracing the Religion they believe to be true when it differs from yours or the Publick Besides being in the wrong Way those who you would have punished must be such as are deaf to all Perswasions But any such I suppose you will hardly sind who hearken to no body not to those of their own Way If you mean by deaf to all Perswasions all Perswasions of a contrary Party or of a different Church such I suppose you may abundantly find in your own Church as well as else-where and I presume to them you are so charitable that you would not have them punished for not lending an Ear to Seducers For Constancy in the Truth and Perseverance in the Faith is I hope rather to be incouraged than by any Penalties check'd in the Orthodox And your Church doubtless as well as all others is Orthodox to it self in all its Tenets If you mean by all Perswasion all your Perswasion or all Perswasion of those of your Communion you do but beg the Question and suppose you have a right to punish those who differ from and will not comply with you Your next Words are When Men fly from the means of a right Information and will not so much as consider how reasonable it is throughly and impartially to examine a Religion which they embraced upon such Inducements as ought to have no sway at all in the matter and therefore with little or no Examination of the proper Grounds of it What humane Method can be used to bring them to act like Men in an Affair of such consequence and to make a wiser and more rational Choice but that of laying such Penalties upon them as may ballance the weight of those Prejudices which inclined them to prefer a false Way before the true and recover them to so much Sobriety and Refâ—…ction as seriously to put the question to themselves Whether it be really worth the while to undergo such Inconveniences for adhering to a Religion which for any thing they know may be false or for rejecting another if that be the case which for any thing they know may be true till they have brought it to the Bar of Reason and given it a fair trial there Here you again bring in such as prefer a false Way before a true to which having answered already I shall here say no more but That since our Church will not allow those to be in a false Way who are out of the Church of Rome because the Church of Rome which pretends Infallibility declares hers to be the only true Way certainly no one of our Church nor any other which claims not Infallibility can require any one to take the Testimony of any Church as a sufficient Proof of the Truth of her own Doctrine So that true and false as it commonly happens when we suppose them for our selves or our Party in effect signify just nothing or nothing to the purpose unless we can think that true or false in England which will not be so at Rome or Geneva and Vice versâ As for the rest of the description of those on whom you are here laying Penalties I beseech you consider whether it will not belong to any of your Church let it be what it will Consider I say if there be none in your Church who have imbraced her Religion upon such Inducements as ought to have no sway at all in the matter and therefore with little or no Examination of the proper Grounds of it who have not been inclined by Prejudices who do not adhere to a Religion which for any thing they know may be false and who have rejected another which for any thing they know may be true If you have any such in your Communion and 't will be an admirable though I fear but a little Flock that has none such in it consider well what you have done You have prepared Rods for them for which I imagine they will con you no thanks For to make any tolerable Sense of what you here propose it must be understood that you would have Men of all Religions punished to make them consider whether it be really worth the while to undergo such Inconveniences for adhering to a Religion which for any thing they know may be false If you hope to avoid that by what you have said of true and false and pretend that the supposed Preference of the true Way in your Church ought to preserve its Members from your Punishment you manifestly trifle For every Church's Testimony that it has chosen the true Way must be taken for it self and then none will be liable and your new Invention of Punishment is come to nothing Or else the differing Churches Testimonies must be taken one for another and then they will be all out of the true Way and your Church need Penalties as well as the rest So that upon your Principles they must all or none be punished Chuse which you please one of them I think you cannot escape What you say in the next Words Where Instruction is stifly refused and all Admonitions and Perswasions prove vain and ineffectual differs nothing but in the way of expressing from Deaf to all Perswasions And so that is answered already In another place you give us another description of those you think ought to be punished in these Words Those who refuse to embrace the Doctrine and submit to the Spiritual Government of the proper Ministers of Religion who by special Designation are appointed to Exhort Admonish Reprove c. Here then those to be punished are such who refuse to imbrace the Doctrine and submit to the Government of the proper Ministers of Religion Whereby we are as much still at uncertainty as we were before who those are who by your Scheme and Laws sutable to it are to be punished since every Church has as it thinks its proper Ministers of Religion And if you mean those that refuse to imbrace the Doctrine and submit to the Government of the Ministers of another Church then all Men will be guilty and must be punished even those of your own Church as well as others If you mean those who refuse c. the Ministers of their own Church very few will incur your Penalties But if by these proper Ministers of Religion the Ministers of some particular Church are intended why do you not name it Why are you so reserved in a Matter wherein if you speak not out all the rest that you say will be to no purpose Are Men to be punished for refusing to imbrace the Doctrine and submit to the Government of the proper Ministers of the Church of Geneva For this time since you have declared nothing to the contrary let me suppose you of
and with an honest Mind which you require in others to have spoke plainly what you aimed at rather than prepossess Mens Minds in favour of your Cause by the Impressions of a Name that in truth did not properly belong to it It was not therefore without ground that I said I suspected you built all on this lurking Supposition that the National Religion now in England back'd by the publick Authority of the Law is the only true Religion and therefore no other is to be tolerated which being a Supposition equally unavoidable and equally just in other Countries unless that we can imagine that every-where but in England Men believe what at the same time they think to be a Lie c. Here you erect your Plumes and to this your triumphant Logick gives you not Patience to answer without an Air of Victory in the entrance How Sir is this Supposition equally unavoidable and equally just in other Countries where false Religions are the National for that you must mean or nothing to the purpose Hold Sir you go too fast take your own System with you and you will perceive it will be enough to my purpose if I mean those Religions which you take to be false for if there be any other National Churches which agreeing with the Church of England in what is necessary to Salvation yet have established Ceremonies different from those of the Church of England should not any one who dissented here from the Church of England upon that account as preferring that to our Way of Worship be justly punished If so then Punishment in Matters of Religion being only to bring Men to the true Religion you must suppose him not to be yet of it and so the National Church he approves of not to be of the true Religion And yet is it not equally unavoidable and equally just that that Church should suppose its Religion the only true Religion as it is that yours should do so it agrecing with yours in things necessary to Salvation and having made some things in their own nature indifferent requisite to Conformity for Decency and Order as you have done So that my saying It is equally unavoidable and equally just in other Countries will hold good without meaning what you charge on me that that Supposition is equally unavoidable and equally just where the National Religion is absolutely false But in that large Sense too what I said will hold good and you would have spared your useless Subtilties against it if you had been as willing to take my Meaning and answered my Argument as you were to turn what I said to a Sense which the Words themselves shew I never intended My Argument in short was this That granting Force to be useful to propagate and support Religion yet it would be no Advantage to the true Religion that you a Member of the Church of England supposing yours to be the true Religion should thereby claim a Right to use Force since such a Supposition to those who were Members of other Churches and believed other Religions was equally unavoidable and equally just And the Reason I annexed shews both this to be my Meaning and my Assertion to be true My Words are Unless we can imaginâ—… that every-where but in England Men believe what at the samâ—… time they think to be a Lie Having therefore never said nor thought that it is equally unavoidable or equally just that Men in every Country should believe the National Religion of the Country but that it is equally unavoidable and equally just that Men believing the National Religion of their Country be it true or false should suppose it to be true and let me here add also should endeavour to propagate it you however go on thus to reply If so then I fear it will be equally true too and equally rational for otherwise I see not how it can be equally unavoidable or equally just for if it be not equally true it cannot be equally just and if it be not equally rational it cannot be equally unavoidable But if it be equally true and equally rational then either all Religions are true or none is true for if they be all equally true and one of them be not true then none of them can be true I challenge any one to put these four good Words unavoidable just rational and true more equally together or to make a better-wrought Deduction but after all my Argument will nevertheless be good that it is no Advantage to your Cause for you or any one of it to suppose yours to be the only true Religion since it is equally unavoidable and equally just for any one who believes any other Religion to suppose the same thing And this will always be so till you can shew that Men cannot receive false Religions upon Arguments that appear to them to be good or that having received Falshood under the appearance of Truth they can whilst it so appears do otherwise than value it and be acted by it as if it were true For the Equality that is here in question depends not upon the Truth of the Opinion imbraced but on this that the Light and Perswasion a Man has at present is the Guide which he ought to follow and which in his Judgment of Truth he cannot avoid to be governed by And therefore the terrible Consequences you dilate on in the following part of that Page I leave you for your private Use on some sitter Occasion You therefore who are so apt without cause to complain of want of Ingenuity in others will do well hereafter to consult your own and another time change your Stile and not under the undesined Name of the true Religion because that is of more Advantage to your Argument mean only the Religion established by Law in England shutting out all other Religions now professed in the World Though when you have defined what is the true Religion which you would have supported and propagated by Force and have told us 't is to be found in the Liturgy and thirty nine Articles of the Church of England and it be agreed to you that that is the only true Religion your Argument for Force as necessary to Mens Salvation from the want of Light and Strength enough in the true Religion to prevail against Mens Lusts and the Corruption of their Nature will not hold because your bringing Men by Force your way applied to the true Religion be it what you will is but bringing them to an outward Conformity to the National Church But the bringing them so far and no farther having no opposition to their Lusts no Inconsistency with their corrupt Nature is not on that account at all necessary nor does at all help where only on your grounds you say there is need of the Assistance of Force towards their Salvation CHAP. VIII Of Salvation to be procured by Force your way THere cannot be imagined a more laudable Design than the promoting the Salvation of Mens
shall only advise you not to be so severe hereafter in your Censure of Mr. Reynolds as you are where you tell me that the famous Instance I give of the two Reynolds's is not of any moment to prove the contrary unless I can undertake that he that erred was as sincere in his Enquiry after that Truth as I suppose him able to examine and judg You will I suppose be more charitable another time when you have consider'd that neither Sincerity nor Freedom from Error even in the establish'd Doctrines of their own Church is the Privilege of those who join themselves in outward Profession to any National Church whatsoever And it is not impossible that one who has subscribed the 39 Articles may yet make it a Question Whether it may bâ—… truly said that God imputes the first Sin of Adam to his Posterity c. But we are apt to be so fond of our own Opinions and almost Infallibility that we will not allow them to be sincere who quit our Communion whilst at the same time we tell the World it is presumable that all who imbrace it do it sincerely and upon Conviction though we cannot but know many of them to be but loose inconsiderate and ignorant People This is all the reason you have when you speak of the Reynolds's to suspect one of the Brothers more than the other And to think that Mr. Chillingworth had not as much Sincerity when he quitted as when he return'd to the Church of England is a Partiality which nothing can justify without pretending to Infallibility To shew that you do not fancy your Force to be useful but that you judg so upon just and sufficient Grounds you tell us the strong probability of its Success is grounded upon the Consideration of humane Nature and the general Temper of Mankind apt to be â—…rought upon by the Method you speak of and upon the indisputable Attâ—…station of Experience The Consideration of humane Nature and the general Temper of Mankind will teach one this that Men are apt in things within their power to be wrought upon by Force and the more wrought upon the greater the Force or Punishments are So that where moderate Penalties will not work great Severities will Which Consideration of humane Nature if it be a just Ground to judg any Force useful will I fear necessarily carry you in your Judgment to Severities beyond the moderate Penalties so often mention'd in your System upon a strong Probability of the Success of greater punishment where less would not prevail But if to consider so as you require i. e. so as to imbrace and believe be not in their Power then no Force at all great or little is or can be useful You must therefore consider it which way you will either renounce all Force as useful or pull off your Mask and own all the Severities of the cruellest Perseentors The other Reason of your iudging Force to be useful you say is grounded on the indisputable Attâ—…station of Experience Pray tell us where you have this Attestation of Experience for your moderate which is the only useful Force Name the Country where True Religion or Sound Christianity has been Nationally receiv'd and establish'd by moderate Penal Laws that the observing Persons you appeal to may know where to imploy their Observation Tell us how long it was tâ—…ied and what was the Suâ—…cess of it And where there has been the Relaxation of such moderate Penal Laws the fruits whereof have continually bâ—…en Epicurism and Atheism Till you do this I fear that all the World will think there is a more indisputable Attestation of Experience for the Success of Dragooning and the Severities you condemn than of your moderate Method which we shall compare with the King of France's and see which is most successful in making Proselytes to Church-Conformity for yours as well as his reach no farther than that when you produce your Examples the consident Talk whereof is good to countâ—…nce a Cause though Experience there be none in the case But you appeal you say to all observing Persons Whether where-euer True Religion or Sound Christianity have been Nationally receiv'd and 〈◊〉 by moderate Penal Laws it has not always visibly lost ground by the Relaxation of those Laws True or False Religions Sound or Unsound Christianity where-ever establish'd into National Religions by Penal Laws always have lost and always will lose ground i. e. lose several of their Confoâ—…ming Professors upon the Relaxation of those Laws But this concerns not the True more than other Religions nor is any Prejudice to it but only shews that many are by the Penalties of the Law kept in the Communion of the National Religion who are not really convinced or perswaded of it and therefore as soon as Liberty is given they own the dislike they had many of them before and out of Perswasion Curiosity c. seek out and betâ—…ke themselves to some other Profession This need not startle the Magistrates of any Religion much less those of the True since they will be sure to retain those who more mind their secular Interest than the Truth of Religion who are every-where the greater number by the advantages of Countenance and Pâ—…ferment and if it be the True Religion they will retain those also who are in earnest of it by the stronger tie of Coâ—…science and Conviction You go on Whether Sects and Hercsies even the wildest and most absurd and even Epicurism and Atheism have not continually thereupon spread themselves and whether the very Life of Christianity has not sensibly decay'd as well as the Number of sound Prosessors of it been daily lessen'd upon it As to Atheism and Epicurism whether they more spread under Toleration or National Religions establish'd by moderate Penal Laws when you shew us the Countries where fair trial hath been made of both that we may compare them together we shall better be able to judg Epicurism and Atheism say you are found constantly to spread themselves upon the Relaxation of moderate Penal Laws We will suppose your History to be full of Instances of such Relaxations which you will in good time communicate to the World that wants this Assistance from your Observation But were this to be justified out of History yet would it not be any Argument against Toleration unless your History can furnish you with a new sort of Religion founded in Atheism However you do well to charge the spreading of Atheism upon Toleration in Matters of Religion as an Argument against those who deny Atheism which takes away all Religion to have any Right to Toleration at all But perhaps as is usual for those who think all the World should see with their Eyes and receive their Systems for unquestionable Verities Zeal for your own way makes you call all Atheism that agrees not with it That which makes me doubt of this are these following words Not to speak of what at this time
to be necessary Means will not be allow'd by you to be pertinent in a debate about necessary Means when possibly those very Neglects may serve to make other Means seem requisite which really are not so Yet if you are not of those who will never think any such Discourse pertinent you will allow me to mind you of it again as not impertinent in answer to your last Letter wherein you so often tell us of the sufficient Provision made for Instruction For wherever the Neglect be it can â—…arce be said there is sufficient Provision made for Instruction in a Christian Country where great numbers of those who are in the Communion of the National Church are grosly ignorant of the Grounds of the Christian Religion And I ask you whether it be in respect of such Conformists you say as you do in the same Paragraph That when the best Provision is made that can be for the Instruction of the People you fear a great part of them will still need some moderate Penalties to bring them to hear and receive Instruction But what if all the means that can be not used for their Instruction That there are Neglects of this kind you will I suppose take the word of a Reverend Prelate of our Church who thought he could not better shew his Good-will to the Clergy than by a seasonable Discourse of the Pastoral Care to câ—…re that Neglect for the future There he tells you that Ministers should watch over and seed their Flock and not enjoy their Benesices as Farms c. Which Reproach says he whatever We may be our Church is free of which he proves by the Stipulation and Covenant they make with Christ that they will never cease their Labour Care and Diligence till they have done all that lieth in them according to their bounden Duty towards all such as are or should be committed to their Care to bring them to a Ripeness of age in Christ. And a Page or two after having repeated part of the Promise made by those who take Orders he adds In this is expressed the so much NEGLECTED but so necessary Duty which Incumbents owe their Flock in a private way visiting instracting and admonishing which is one of the most useful and important Parts of their Duty how generally socuer it may be disused or forgetten P. 187. He says Every Priest that minds his Duty will find that no Part of it is so useful as Catechistical Discourses by means whereof his People will understand all his Sermons the better when they have once had a clear Notion of all those Terms that must run through them for those not being understood renders them all unintelligible Another Part of the Priest's Duty he tells you is with relation to them that are without who are of the side of the Church of Rome or among the Dissenters Other Churches and Bodies are noted for their Zâ—…al in making Proselytes for their 〈◊〉 Endeavours as well as their unlawful Methods in it They reckoning perhaps that all will be 〈◊〉 by the increasing their PARTY which is the true Name of making Converts except they become at the same time good Men as well as Votaries to a Side or Cause We are certainly very REMISS in this of both hands Little pains is taken to gain either upon Papists or Nonconformists The LAW HAS BEEN SO MUCH TRUSTED TO that that Method only was thought sure it was much valued and others at the same time as much NEGLECTED And whereas at first WITHOUT FORCE OR VIOLENCE in forty Years time Popery from being the prevailing Religion was reduced to a bandful we have now in above twice that number of Years made very little Progress c. Perhaps here again you will tell me you do not see how this is pertinent to the present Question Which that you may see give me leave to put you in mind that neither you nor any body else can pretend Force necessary till all the Means of Perswasion have been used and nothing neglâ—…ted that can be done by all the softer Ways of Application And since it is your own Doctrine that Force is not lawful unless where it iâ—… necessary the Magistrate upon your Principles can neither lawfully use Force nor the Ministers of any National Church plead for it any where but where they themselves have first done their Duties A Draught whereof aâ—…apted to our present Circumstances we have in the newly publish'd Discours of the Pastoral Care And he that shall press the use of Force as necessary before he can answer it to himself and the World that those who have taken on them the care of Souls have performed their Duties were best consider whether he does not draw up an Accusation against the Men of that Holy Order or against the Magistrate who suffers them to neglect any part of their Duty For whilst what that Learned Bishop in the Passages above cited and in other places mentions is neglected it cannot be said that no other Means but Force is lest Those which are on all hands acknowledg necessary and useful Means not having yet been made use of To vindicate your Method from Novelty you tell me 't is as old as St. Austin Whatever he says in the place you quote it shews only his Opinion but not that it was ever used Therefore to shew it not to be new in practice you add that yon think it has been made use of by all those Magistrates who having made all requisite Provisions for the instructing their People in the Truth have likewise requir'd them under convenient Penalties to imbrace it Which is as much as to say that those Magistrates who used your Method did use your Method And that certainly you may think safely and without fear of being gainsaid But now I will tell you what I think in my turn And that is if you could have found any Magistrates who had made use of your Method as well as you think you have found a Divine that approves of it you would have named those Magistrates as forwardly as you do St. Austin If I think amiss pray correct me yet and name them That which makes me imagine you will hardly find any Examples of it is what I there said in these Words All other Law-makers have constantly taken this Method that where any thing was to be amended the Fault was first declared and then Penalties denounced against all those who after a time set should be found guilty of it This the common Sense of Mankind and the very Reason of Laws which are intended not for Punishment but Correction has made so plain that the subtilest and most refined Law-makers have not gone out of this Course nor have the most ignorant and barbarous Nations mist it But you have out-done Solon and Lycurgus Moses and our Saviour and are resolved to be a Law-maker of a Way by your self 'T is an old and obsolete Way and will not serve