point of the sence For we know the diuine doctrine to be one and the same in all translations immediatly in the originall and more obscurely in the translations and therefore we so vse them as that we examine all by the originall approuing the best and not hindering the mending of it if need require But this change implies no such error in the matter For one true sence may be vttered diuersly and though things be alwayes one and the same yet words be diuers In which sence our translations are of differeÌ„t sort and yet no materiall error As for example some playner or in phrase liker the original then othersome One translation is in verse another in prose one word for word another sence for sence one hath a higher obscurer phrase another a lower and playner yet how can it be inferred hereupon that therfore they be erronious when they all yeeld the same diuine sence Therefore Austins iudgement is more to be preferred who saith i De doctrin Christ lib. 2. c. 12. 14. the variety and multitude of translations doth not hinder vs from vnderstanding the text but very much helpe vs specially if we shall diligently compare them one with another And what shal become of the popish Authenticall vulgar if change and varietie be a signe of error which so often was changed before it came to that it is and since the Trent approbation hath so many different copies Yea what shall become of their Missals Portesses and Seruice bookes that so many times haue bin reformed and more should be but that the Seruice of the Church would be altered so farre that scarce any shew of the ancient Religion would be remaining in it k Loc. lib. 11. cap. 5. saith Canus a Popish Doctor 8 But the Iesuite obiecteth further that seeing the translatour being but a man may erre how shall an vnlearned man be infallibly sure that this or that translation erreth not or if it erre in on point that it doth not in another vnlesse the Churches authoritie be admitted to assure vs Whereto I answer l Psal 119 105. Prou. 6.23 2. Pet. 1.19 that the doctrine conteyned in the Scripture is a light and so abideth into what language soeuer it be translated and therefore the children of light know it and discerne it For m Ioh. 10.4 1. Cor. 2.15 1. Ioh. 2 20. Ioh. 7.17 14.16.17 God directeth them by the holy Ghost who openeth their hearts that they know his voice from all others and that the light of his truth may shine vnto theÌ„ Which light is of this nature that it giueth testimonie to it selfe and receiueth authoritie from no other as the Sunne is not seene by any light but his owne and we discerne sweet from sowre by it owne tast And for the opening of our eyes to see this light whereby our conscience may be assured we haue diuers meanes some priuate as skill in the tongues learning labour prayer conference c. Some publicke as the ministery of the word which is the ordinance of God to beget this assurance which act of the Church is not authoritie to secure me but ministery to shew me that which shall secure me which ministery is founded on the Scripture it selfe in that from thence it fetcheth the reasons that may perswade me and sheweth the light that doth infallibly assure me And thus we know our translations to be true Digression 6. Declaring how the assurance of our faith is not built on the Churches authoritie but on the illumination of Gods spirit shining in the Scripture it selfe 9 So then the vnlearned man is secured not vpon the Churches credit and authoritie but by her ministery which teacheth him he is directed to the light it selfe and this ministery we haue and vse for our translations but they that obey it know the translation and so proportionably all other articles of faith to be infallible because the matter therof appeares vnto them as a candle in a lanterne shewing it selfe in it owne light And that you may see the difference betweene these two the Churches teaching and the illumination of the spirit in assuring vs the spirit of God is an inward meanes the teaching of the Church an outward the spirit secureth vs by his owne authoritie the Church directeth vs by her ministery the spirit hath light in it selfe the Church borroweth hers from the Scriptures the spirit can secure vs alone the Church neuer can without the spirit But nothing can be playner to this purpose then the saying of Constantine the great in his epistle to the Persian n 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Theod. hist lib. 1. cap. 25. Marking the diuine faith I obtaine the light of truth and following the light of truth I acknowledge the diuine faith We need then a more certain authoritie then the voyce of the Church that may prostrate our mind with a lightning froÌ„ heauen and stand vpon his owne ground not drawing his resolution from any thing out of it selfe 10 This is not far from that which the learnedst of the Papists be driuen to acknowledge through the necessitie of the truth For thus writeth o Princip doctrinal lib. 8. cap. 22. Stapleton in that booke where he most defends the Churches authoritie The godly are brought to faith by the voyce of the Church but being once brought and enlightened with the light of diuine inspiration then they beleeue no more for the Churches voyce but because of the heauenly light And yet more plainely in p Triplicat inchoata aduers Gulielm Whittak in admonit ad Whitak the last booke that euer he wrote that one would wonder the Iesuite should see no authoritie to secure vs but the Churches The inward perswasioÌ„ of the holy Ghost is so necessary and effectuall for the beleeuing of euery obiect of faith q Nec absque illa quicquam à quoquam credi possit etsi millies Ecclesia attestetur per illam solam persuasiâ—nem quodlibet credenduÌ„ credi queat tâ—cente prorsus vel noÌ„ audita Ecclesia that without it neither can any thing by any man be beleeued though the Church testified with it a thousand times and by it alone any matter may be beleeued though the Church held her peace or neuer were heard Where is he then that saith we cannot be infallibly sure that this or that is doctrine of faith free from error vnlesse we admit an infallible authoritie in the Church to assure vs Digression 7. Wherein the Trent vulgar Latin and our English translation are briefly compared together 11 Which authoritie if we did admit supposing the Church were like theirs might we not speed possible as the Papists haue done in their authenticall vulgar and be assured of that which were starke naught For I thinke the Sun neuer saw any thing more defectiue maimed then the vulgar Latin yet r Concil Trid. sess 4. their Church hath canonized it for good
ministerie thereof may be a condition subordinate for the obtaining of that which is the rule As a Ioh. 4.29.39 the woman of Samaria was a good meanes to bring her countrimen to Christ that knew him not and yet their beleefe was not built on her b ver 42. but on that which she reuealed to them And c Ier. 6.16 God biddeth vs by his Prophet Stand by the wayes and behold and aske for the old way which is the good way though in the meane time the persons to be asked are our direction no further then while they point to the old way And the Prophet biddeth d Hag. 2.12 Aske the Priests concerning the law and saith e Mal. 2.7 The Priests lips should preserue knowledge and they should seeke the law at his mouth for he is the Angell of the Lord of hoasts yet these Priests many times spake vntruly being deceiued themselues and deceiuing others And so may it happen to the Pastors of the Church 2 All which notwithstanding the Church abideth still the same that Saint Paul calleth it the pillar and ground of truth in that the truth is no where else to be found Which that I may shew the beter it is to be noted that f Iul. Pol. Onomast lib. 8. pag. 454. Scol Aristoph Nub. Rosin antiq Rom. l. 8 c. 2. Alex. ab Alexand. genial dierum l. 6. c. 23. in old time the Gentiles vsed to write their lawes in tables and so hang them vp on pillars of stone that the people might reade them as Proclamations are nailed to posts in market townes and somtime g Phauorin Hesych Lexic verbo 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 they whited the pillar and so wrote the lawes vpon it h Lexic decem Rhet. Harpocration saith they reared vp straight pillars of stone and so wrote their lawes vpon them And it was also an ordinary thing that they had other pillars like the Pasquill in Rome i Eustach Il. λ. Suid. verbo 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 whereupon whosoeuer listed hung their Epigrams or libels that they would haue knowne Now the Apostle describing the Church likeneth it to one of these pillars whose vse was no more but to shew that which hung thereon it selfe not being the law but that whereupon the law was hung For so the true faith written in the tables of the Scripture whereunto the world will giue no testimonie is fastened to the Church as to a stately pillar and strong supporter that there it may be seene and holden out vnto vs. Hence the Iesuite can challenge no more but that the Church is vnto vs a witnesse and vpholder of the faith and alway preserueth it which we denie not but in the meane time he forgetteth that it is one thing to hold out the rule and another to be the rule it selfe and he that saith the Church is the supporter of truth doth not say withall that the Pastors can neuer erre or faile in deliuering any part thereof The Apostle saith the former but the Iesuite onely beside the text affirmeth the latter 3 This exposition must needs be granted for foure reasons first it is called the pillar of truth in no other sence then k Eph. 5.27 elsewhere it is called glorious without spot or blemish or blame but it is certaine that the puritie there mentioned is mingled with some imperfection therefore it is also certain this vpholding of the truth is not free froÌ„ all error Secondly Paul in this place sendeth not Timothy to learne of the Church which he should do if the Iesuits conceit were sound but l vers 14.15 wisheth him to teach the Church out of the Scriptures that so it might be the pillar of truth Thirdly that which the Apostle saith in these words is true of euery particular Church but of euery particular church it is not true that it caÌ„not erre for we see they may as did m Act. 20.30 Apoc. 2.4 this of Ephesus concerning which the Apostle saith here it is the pillar and ground of truth Fourthly if this place proue that the Church cannot erre in any thing but of it all men must learne the infallible truth then seeing o Bellar. de verbo Dei l. 3. c. 5. Greg. de ValeÌ„t coÌ„ment Theo. tom 3. disp 1. q. 1. assert 3. the Papists hold their Prelates and Pastors to be the Church I demand what is that which must teach them for the Church doth not seeing they are the Church themselues 4 Or if the Iesuite dote vpon his owne exposition then let him cal to mind how other Papists haue expounded before him p Staphyl Apol. part 1. Sâ—apl his translat pag 50. who say The Apostle calleth the Church the pillar and ground of truth signifying by the word ground the largenesse of Christendome by the word pillar the continuall smooth and not interrupted succession of the Apostles and their schollers vpon whoÌ„ all truth is builded Which exposition differing from this of the Iesuites may giue him occasion to looke better into the text and at least mistrust his collections therfrom till he haue conferred with his fellowes For vpon the reckoning it will fall out that vntill the Friers and Iesuites of late began to hammer the Scriptures there was neuer any that out of them would deliuer his conclusion but the contrary The Apostles writings are the pillars and supporters of our faith saith q Lib. 3. c. 1. Irenaeus The Gospell is the gound and stay of the Church saith r Lib. 3 c. 11. the same Irenaeus The truth is the pillar and ground of the Church saith Å¿ Hom. in hunc loc Chrysostome The diuine Scriptures must teach who hath the true Church These are the proofes these are the foundations these are the grounds of our cause saith t De vnit Eccl. cap. 16. Austin 5 The words of Austin alledged by the Iesuite are good but they had bene better if he had not left out the beginning for thus they lie u Contra. Crescon gram lib. 1. cap. 33. For somuch as the holy Scripture cannot deceiue vs let him who feareth lest the obscuritie of this question concerning the baptisme of the Donatists should deceiue him enquire that Churches iudgment of it which the holy Scripture without all doubtfulnes doth demoÌ„strate Wherin Aust saith not the church is the rule or the Church cannot erre but onely as the Iesuite himselfe noteth that the iudgement therof should be inquired His meaning is that in the question of rebaptizing because in Cresconius his suppositioÌ„ the Scripture said nothing of it such as were doubtful might ask the iudgmeÌ„t of the true Church there they should learn Cresconius to be in an error Wherein the Iesuit shal find vs to consent with Austin for doth he think we allow not the Church her ministery or that we silence her from bearing witnesse to the truth or that we turne away the people
companies in the world professing Christ were neuer assembled into one place so that they might all of them be seene Fourthly we vse this reason also that in the visible assemblies many badde are mingled with the good and therefore of necessitie we must allow another Church whereto they properly belong which can be none but an inuisible Church But the Iesuite auouching the mixture of good and badde in the militant Church which we grant to proue the Catholicke Church consisteth of all sorts reasoneth to no purpose For the militant and Catholicke Churches are not all one by reason whereof that may be in one which is not in another Neither can any thing be concluded for the later out of those Scriptures which speake onely of the former And let him know that this ground of ours is so true which he calleth a false ground that many learned Papists confesse it with vs. Many grant c de Eccl. mild 3. c. 9. saith Bellarmine that euill men are no true members neither simply of the body of the Church but onely * Secundum quid aequiuoceÌ„ in some respect and equiuocally So saith Ioannes de Turcremata prouing it out of Alexander Hales Hugh and Saint Thomas The same also is taught by Petrus à Soto Canus and others Now that which is so equiuocally d 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Arist Categ c. 1. Phauorin Lexic is not so in deed but in name or likenesse onely As a painted man is called a man § 23. Lastly the testimonie of the Fathers proueth the same Origenes homilia 30. in Mat Ecclesia saith he plena â—st fulgore ab Oriente vsque ad Occidentem Cyprian lib. de Vnitate Ecclesiae Ecclesia inquit Domini luce perfusae radios suos per orbem terrarum spargit Chrysost hom 4. in cap 6. Esaiae Facilius est inquit Solem extingui quam Ecclesiam obscurari August lib. 3. contra Epist Parmeniani cap. 5. Nulla inquit est securitas vnitatis nisi ex promissiâ— Dei Ecclesiae declaratis quae supra montem vt dictum est constituta abscondi non potest Tract 1. in Epist Ioan. Nunquid digito ostendemus Ecclesiam fratres mei nonne aperta est Et tract 2. Quid amplius dicturus sum quà m caecoâ— qui tam magnum montem non vident qui contra lucernam in candelabro positam oculos claudunt By which places of the Fathers doth euidently appeare how that they did suppose as certaine that the Church was visible such as might be cleerely seene and could not be hidden The Answer 1 The iudgement teaching of the fathers we acknowledg a Eph. 4 1â— must reuerently be accounted of and followed as they follow the truth froÌ„ which as other later Pastors in Gods Church so they haue swarued somtime so manifestly that Canus a Papist himselfe whose iudgement is commended by b Qua de rectuâ—â—tè mihi scripâ—iâ—ie videtur Canus lib. â— de locis Theologicis c 3. tom 3 cap. 239. Gregory of Valence c Loc. Theolâ— 7. c. 3. concl 2. writeth The Canonicall authors indeed as being from aboue heauenly diâ—â—â—e do alwayes hold a perpetuall and stable constancie in their writings but other holy writers are inferiour and humane failing sometimes and now and then contrary to the course of nature they bring foorth a monster Which being granted then their testimonie proueth not alwayes but only sheweth what they supposed And the common distinction of the Papists here applyed that d Greg Valent. tom 3. p. 290. it is infallibly true which they deliuer with one consent though it seeme reasonable yet sometime it is but a stale to deceiue For this consent cannot euer be knowne and they that keepe such a stirre with it e Quod si per sententiam doctoruÌ„ aliqua fidei controuersia non satis commode coÌ„poni posset eo quod illorum consensu â—on aperte constaret sua tunc constâ—â— authoritas pon â—fici pag 293. lit B. themselues place it at the length in the Popes sole authoritie More shall be said of this matter f § Digress 47. nu 5. ad 12. hereafter but here I touch it that it might appeare the Scripture onely is iudge 2 But allow them what authoritie you will yet by the places alledged it appeareth neither euidently nor at all that they thought any thing against our assertion but they speake either of the inward light of the Church consisting in truth and obedience or of the outward estate as it was in their time or as the godly that liue therein at all times see it as will appeare by examining their particular words 3 Origen whom yet I maruell that he would alledge seeing they g Baron An. 232. nu 10. tom 3. count him an hereticke and h An. 256. nu 40 ibid reproue all that speake for him saith The Church is full of brightnesse from the East to the West But this brightnesse was not meant of the outward estate or appearance thereof but of the truth professed which we say may be done in secret as his words in the beginning of that homily declare We must vnderstand that the brightnesse of truth appeareth out of euerie place of Scripture and going out from the East that is from the birth of Christ it appeareth vntill the accomplishment of his passion wherein is his Sun-setting And though this brightnesse were cleare to the world also when Origen wrote this yet hence it followeth not that it should alway be so a cloud of Apostasie might after his time come and obscure it Cyprian saith The Lords Church being enuironed with his light reacheth his beames ouer all the world Which words being in all points like Origens receiue the same answer For by this light he meaneth the vnitie of the Church as appeareth by his next words This light is one which is spred euery where and the vnitie of the bodie is not separated now this vnitie as all other inward graces and ornaments of the Church may with her selfe be spred all ouer the world and yet not visibly to the view of all therein but by being retained in the hearts of her children scattered all ouer the world Yet I deny not but the Church was openly knowne in Cyprians time though very poore and persecuted but that proueth not it should alway be so Chrysostome saith The Sunne shall sooner be put out then the Church obscured but by obscuring he meaneth not the hiding of it for a time out of the sight of her enemies but the totall extinguishing and vtter abolishing of it Which will easily appeare if the greeke word vsed for obscuring be looked now that may be hidden for a time which is not extinguished as we see in the Sun wherwith Chrysostome compareth the Church Againe it is neuer obscured from those that liue in it which professe the faith and yet the world may be ignorant of it as a blind man seeth not the
of England Yet did not Basil therefore thinke it was not the true Church as the Iesuite disputeth against vs much lesse did he separate himselfe from it but acknowledgeth the enuy of Satan who can set brethren at oddes in their fathers owne house who are to be aduised to reconcile themselues and at length to embrace vnitie when they see Papists their enemies scorning them and clapping their hands at the bickering lest all to late when Gods iudgements fall vpon them as they did vpon the primitiue Church for that same sinne they learne by their owne calamitie to professe the faith in vnitie r Philostrat heroic in Protesilao One saith the communion of good things often times begetteth enuy but when men communicate in miseries they begin to loue one another recompencing compassion for compassion § 34. And which chiefly is to be pondered as principally appertaining to this marke of vnitie they haue no meanes to end their controuersies and so to returne to vnitie and to continue therin For while as they admit no rule of faith but onely Scripture which Scripture diuerse men expound diuersly according to the diuerse humours and opinions or fancies of euery one not admitting anie head or chiefe rule infallibly guided by the holy Ghost to whose censure in matters of faith all the rest should submit themselues vt capite constituto schismatis tollatur occasio an head or chiele ruler being ordained occasion of schisme may be taken away whiles they do thus as they all do alwayes thus all proclaiming to be ruled by onely Scripture and yet almost euery one expounding Scripture diuersly and one contrary to another according to the seeming of euery ones sense and neuer a one admitting one superiour infallibly guided by the holy Spirit of God to whose iudgement all the rest should submit themselues whiles I say they do thus it is impossible they should haue the vnitie of faith which is required as a marke whereby to know Christs true Church The Answer 1 The Iesuit hauing obiected that there is no vnity among vs now giueth his reason why there can be none because we make the holy Scripture the rule of our faith and indeed it is true that all Protestants professe the Scriptures to be the rule of faith which the Iesuite may repeate as often as be pleaseth coming ouer with it againe and againe but no Papist can confute it yea many Papists seem in expresse termes themselues to grant it as I haue shewed Digression 3. where the point is handled at large and whither the reader must betake himselfe for the triall Onely I will adde the words of Acosta a Biblio select l. 2 c. 15. reported and allowed by Posseuinus the Iesuite that the diligent attentiue and frequent reading as also the meditation and conference of the Scriptures hath alwayes seemed to them the chiefest rule of all to vnderstand by And I will repeate b De verb. Dei l. 1. c. 2. the words of Bellarmine The sacred Scripture is the rule of faith most certaine and most secure yea God hath taught vs by corporall letters which we might see and reade what his will is we should beleeue concerning him Here are three of our principall aduersaries say as much as we do and yet the Iesuite alloweth it not This his vanitie common with him in euery issue betweene vs must be chastised with those words of Austin c Epist 6. See how they grow worse and worse whose runagate babling restrained neither with feare nor shame wandereth vp and downe without any punishment 2 And though we graunt that diuers men expound the Scripture diuersly according to their fancies yea contrary one to another not submitting the exposition to one chiefe head yet cannot this disable it from being a sufficient rule to keepe vs in vnitie because the men that thus diuersly expound are not as he speaketh All and euery one that professeth our religion but some priuate men erring through ignorance or affection the open ministery of our Church in the meane time cleauing vniformly to one and the same exposition which from the beginning it neuer altered and the points wherein some among vs vary are not the articles of saluation wherein alone the reason of vnitie doth consist but some difficult places the ignorance whereof remoueth not the vnitie of faith all which I haue d § 7. nu 2. § ◠nu 7. inde § 12 nu 2. inde Digress 8. 10. already handled in that which goeth before and therefore referre my selfe to the places if any more be to be said to this matter And whereas he thinketh we should admit one head or chiefe rule to whom we should submit all our faith that a head being ordained the occasion of schisme might be taken away herein he talketh absurdly For first we acknowledge one head and chiefe ruler such as he mentioneth euen the Spirit of God whose office it is to expound the Scripture and this exposition he vttereth in the Scripture it selfe e Digr 11.12 as I haue shewed Next if we would also according to his fancie betake our selues to the externall authoritie of some man or companie of men relying vpon them in matters of faith and exposition yet this would not please him neither vnlesse the Pope were he that you may see the vaine importunitie of the Iesuite Thirdly when such a head as himself meaneth admitting it also to be the Pope were agreed vpon and all power to expound the Scripture put into his hands yet still the same difficulties would remaine that he obiecteth against vs. First that his determination though neuer so plainly published would not satisfie such as are contentious f See Dig◠24. for in the Church of Rome notwithstanding the Popes supremacie there are contentions Next that whatsoeuer he determined if it were the truth he must fetch it and shew it out of the Scripture And so still we haue as competent a iudge for the maintenance of vnitie as the Iesuite can name any and when he hath trauerst ground and fetched a compasse how he can to auoide this iudgement yet the violence of the truth and his owne experience shall tumble him headlong into it againe 3 The phrase borowed out of Ierom vt capite constituto c. meaneth not the Pope or any man else that should be iudge of the Scripture but the Pastors and Bishops ordained in euery Church for preaching and gouernement which we haue and vse according to Ieroms meaning in a course more godly and profitable then that which the Church of Rome vsurpeth § 35. Contrarie the Romane Church is alway one and vniforme in faith neuer varying or holding any dogmaticall points contrarie to that which in former times from the beginning it did hold all the learned men thereof though sometimes differing in matters not defined by the Church yet in matters of faith all conspire in one The Answer 1 That which the
Church though no man deny but that is needfull for the shewing and teaching of the rule to all that shall be saued expounding the said teaching of the ministerie wherby the faithfull are directed in the Church But he hath not proued the Church to be alway visible to the world nor those foure to be the Notes of the Church He hath said it but not proued it as appeareth by my answer 2 All which being considered his demands are soone and shortly answered that the Protestants admit the authority and doctrine of the Church though they thinke not the Papacie to be it nor the authoritie thereof to be aboue the Scripture And the grounds wherupon they perswade themselues to haue the sauing faith are so infallible that all the Papists in the world cannot cōfute them And our title to the true Church is sound when our aduersaries haue smattered and wrangled against it what they can for the doctrine of the Scripture which in all points we professe beleeue proue it And albeit those foure One Holy Catholicke and Apostolicke be not the markes of the Church but certaine qualities therein yet we haue them at least for anie thing the Iesuite hath said to the contrarie all whose discourse against vs pretending the want of these things among vs I haue fully answered in their proper places and retorted vpon himselfe whereby the iudicious reader may be satisfied And therefore when we say ours is the true faith we brag not but maintaine and auouch our lawfull title since as S. Austin saith the same is not to be found but in the bellie of the true Church which we are Whereupon we aduise all Papists whatsoeuer to renounce the Papacie if they will hold the truth and be saued For according to the saying of the same Austin afore-cited whosoeuer is separated from this bellie of the Church must needs speake false because out of the true Church there is neither true preaching nor lawfull sending such as should preach and I haue manifestly shewed that the Papacie is not the true Church but a disease that by the faction of some grew vnto it 3 Thus the whole discourse of this Section is briefly answered But where he saith our religion sprang vp of late the first founder being Martin Luther an apostata Frier a man knowne by his writings words deeds and death to haue bene a notable euill liuer this must be a little more stood vpon because it is the burden of euery song among the Papists And first it is to no purpose to say our religion sprang vp of late in Luther vnlesse our euidence whereby we shew it to agree with the Scripture and to haue bene taught in the Church of Rome it selfe many hundred yeares afore Luther was borne can be disproued Next we graunt Luther was a Frier and obtaining the knowledge of the truth renounced the profession which was no other apostasie or fault in him then it was in S. Paule when he renounced the profession of a Pharisee and became an Apostle both the professions being hypocrisie saue that of the Frier was of a deeper tincture as I haue shewed Digress 45. Then concerning his writings the Iesuite is no competent iudge For woe to him and all his Church if Luthers writings be good And therefore let them be examined by the Scripture the touchstone of all mens writings not by the witles preiudice of idle companions that neuer read them And if they containe some particular things that deserue reproofe yet what disgrace is that to the substance of his writings What fathers writing is so pure but it containeth some error Yea I challenge the Iesuit let him name if he can one writer of his owne side old or new Schooleman or Iesuite but some or other in the Church of Rome will except against something he writ Thomas Caietan Bellarmine and Baronius are controlled yea in the later editions the Councell of Trent hath purged in a manner all writers which maketh it cleare that some errors in Luthers bookes disaduantage vs no more then the errors purged and espied in their owne books disaduantage the Papists And yet the things that are most excepted against are no errors but the ancient truth maintained against Popish innouation And let the words of Erasmus a man able to iudge by a Antididag p. 58. Sur. cōment p. 288. Staplet discours p. 159. the Papists owne confession determine this matter b Epist ad Cardin Mogent He saith It is obserued of a truth that these men the Papists condemne many things in Luthers bookes as hereticall which in Austin and Bernard are read for godly and good Diuinity and he addeth That he seeth this the best men are least offended at his writings The which is most true it being their ordinary practise for the hatred of our persons to raile vpon that which by their owne confession the ancient fathers held before vs. So c Hosiand hist eccl cent 16. p. 837 Andreas Masius in the company of diuers acknowledged there was more Diuinitie in one page of Luther then sometimes in a whole booke of some father Let his writing therefore rest and come to his life and death Digression 54. Containing a briefe narration touching the life and death of Martin Luther with the incredible reports thereof made by his aduersaries And shewing how sundry Popes in the Church of Rome haue liued and died worse then he supposing all reports were true 4 In speaking of this matter that standeth altogether vpon witnesses I must put the reader in mind of a speech of Bellarmines d Not. eecl c. 14. §. Sed respondeamus That it is the part of a foole rather to beleeue Caluin and Illyricus touching ancient histories whereat they were not present then Bernard Bonauenture and Antonine that were present Let this law be kept then that Surius Lindan Pontacus and other railing Papists that were not present at Luthers life and death be not credited against them that liued with him saw him die and if any will beleeue them let him be the Iesuites foole Now touching his life Melancthon that was his companion and liued with him hath written it and commended it to say no more And Erasmus that was familiar with him e L. 11. Ep. 1. ad Card. Eborac in a certain Epistle to Cardinall Wolsey giueth testimony that his life was approued with great consent of all men And this saith he is no small preiudice that the integritie of his manners is so great that his verie enemies can finde nothing which they may calumniate As indeed to this day nothing can be produced against him that is substantiall They clamour of his doctrine because it was against them and produce some vehement speeches which his aduersaries by their iniuries prouoked him vnto as Saint Hierome often times vseth the like vehemency but what is that to his conuersation Let them shew his life to haue bene led otherwise then became
thence haue giuen testimony to vs who remain behinde that they are safely arriued there you I say are vnwise that will leaue this way to aduenture the liues not of your bodies but of your soules in a path found out by your selues neuer tracked before In which whosoeuer haue gone yet God knoweth what is become of them since we neuer had letter or miracle or euident token or any word from them to assure vs that they passed safely that way I may account you most vnwise men that will aduenture such a pretious iewell as your soule is to be transported by such an vncertaine and most dangerous way I must needs think that since there is but one way and that the way of the Catholike Church is a sure and approued way you are very vnwise that leaue it The Answer 1 They are vnwise that leaue the way of the Catholicke Church they are no wiser but the very same that follow the way of the Romane Church the reason is because the Roman is not the Catholick Church And therfore we that haue left it and the waies thereof that we might trauell towards the heauenly Ierusalem reioyce in the goodnesse of God that hath called vs to this mercy and daily craue of his heauenly maiestie that he will continue vs therein to our liues end though Papists cal vs to follow them Whose miracles as a Digress 44. I haue shewed giue no testimony that any man in the Popish religion euer came to heauen The miracles of Christ and of his Apostles and of the Primitiue Church belong not to them but vs in that our faith is the same that theirs was that did them The rest contained in the Legends and Indian Newes which are all that Papists can properly challenge are the delusions of Satan and forgeries of men And so the diuell and the Frier playing the Carriers loded their packe-horse with such stuffe and because the Pope paied them well for the deuice they made silly Papists such as the Iesuite is beleeue they came from their friends in heauen This therefore is no sure way to finde the truth vnlesse it be certain that these miracles were sent indeed and then as certaine that they which sent them died in the present Popish religion 2 As for our selues we are not so destitute of letters and tokens as the Iesuite pretendeth sent vs not from men that are departed but from God that gaue them entertainment whose certificate to vs is b 2. Pet. 1 1◠more worth then all the miracles of the world because he sent it vs by his owne Sonne that best could tell who arriued in his fathers house And these letters are the Scriptures God our King c Hom. 39. saith Macarius hath sent the diuine Scriptures as it were letters vnto vs. And Saint Austin saith d Enarr Psal 90. conc 2. These are the letters which are come to vs frō that Citie whither like Pilgrims we are trauelling So that as long as by these Scriptures we can iustifie our faith we haue letters from heauen sufficient to assure vs that all which embrace and obey the faith we professe are safely arriued in the kingdome of heauen This is the reason why the Pope forbiddeth his people the reading of them lest thereby they should know so much and knowing it should forsake him and his lying miracles § 63. I must thinke that since the Catholicke Church is as I haue proued the light of the world and rule of faith the pillar and ground of the truth that you leauing it leaue the light and therefore walke in darkenesse forsaking the true faith and therefore are misled in the mist of incredulity into the wildernesse of misbeliefe Finally hauing lost the sure ground of truth fall into the ditch of many absurdities must needs be drowned in the pit of innumerable errors And erring thus from the way the veritie the life which is Christ residing according to his promise in the Catholicke Church must needs vnlesse you will returne to the secure way of the same Catholicke Church incurre your owne perdition death and endlesse damnation of body and soule from the which sweet Iesus deliuer vs all to the honour and perpetuall praise of his name Amen Laus Deo beatae virgini Mariae The Answer 1 The Church of Rome is not the Catholike Church but the seate of Antichrist and therfore what danger soeuer there be in forsaking the Catholicke yet there is none in refusing the Romane Church Nay t 2. Cor. 6.17 Apoc. 18.4 all such as will be saued must forsake it And they that will abide therein shall find by experience at the last that all the inconueniences which the Iesuite saith belong to such as leaue the Catholicke Church will fall vpon them And therefore blessed be God the Father of lights who hath restored among vs the publicke ministery of the Gospel for the calling of his people out of the damned errors of the Romane Sea into his owne Church And let the earth reioyce and euery child of God therein and giue him thankes who hath made the light of his Church to breake out when the tyranny of the Church of Rome had thought to haue smothered it in eternall darkenesse and with the innumerable errors that it bred to haue seduced misled and drowned it for euer wherby mankinde should haue incurred perdition death and endlesse damnation of body and soule And let my deare countrimen know among whom vnto whom I write these things and for whose sake I will expose my selfe to the vndiscreet fury of seducers and many seduced refusing no paines or dutie that may tend to the enlightning of their conscience and confirming of the vndoubted faith of Iesus Christ wherof I am called to be the meanest preacher that liueth among them LET THEM I SAY AND ALL THE PEOPLE OF OVR LAND WHOM THESE HAPPY DAIES HAVE RECLAIMED FROM THE CHVRCH OF ROME COVNT THIS THEIR CHIEFEST HAPPINES AND WE ARE IT AS THEIR CROWNE that God hath thus made them partakers of his Gospell when the other side euen vnder their eyes lie plunged in ignorance of mind error of faith and vilenesse of conuersation so horrible and prodigious that it needeth teares to bewaile it rather then a pen to report it In recompence wherof let them be CONSTANT AND FAITHFVLL to the end and continue in the things that they haue learned making no question but our faith which could bring so visible a reformation of manners into our countrey so certaine knowledge so vnspeakeable comfort into our minde which could bring the light of Gods owne word the maiesty of elder times the reuerent countenance of the first antiquitie and the perpetuall testimony of our aduersaries themselues for her iustification wil saue their soules if they will obey it For want of which obedience they may and shall perish eternally when the faith it selfe is in no fault And let them LABOVR WITH LOVE AND
THE WAY TO THE TRVE CHVRCH wherein The principall Motiues perswading to Romanisme and Questions touching the nature and authoritie of the Church and Scriptures are familiarly disputed and driuen to their issues where this day they sticke betweene the Papists and vs Contriued into an Answer to a Popish Discourse concerning the Rule of Faith and the marks of the Church And published to admonish such as decline to Papistrie of the weake and vncertaine grounds whereupon they haue ventured their soules Directed to all that seeke for resolution and especially to his louing countrimen of Lancashire By IOHN WHITE Minister of Gods word at Eccles. For the finding out of the matter and questions handled there are three Tables two in the beginning and one in the end of the Booke ¶ De hoc inter nos Quaestio versatur vtrum apud Nos an apud Illos vera Ecclesia sit August de vnit Eccles cap. 2. LONDON Printed for IOHN BILL and WILLIAM BARRET 1608. TO THE MOST REVEREND FATHERS IN GOD TOBIE THE LORD ARCHBISHOP OF YORKE HIS GRACE Primate and Metropolitane of England and to GEORGE Lord Bishop of Chester his very good Lords WHen I first peÌ„ned this Treatise which now I offer to your Lordships I did it for mine owne priuate exercise and the satisfying of certaine friends that desired it Afterward seeing some hope that it might doe good abroad principally in the countrey where I dwell and desirous if it were possible to do any thing that might helpe the seduced out of their errors and confirme the rest in the truth I was easily perswaded to put it forth and the rather for that the questions handled touching THE AVTHORITIE AND SENCE OF THE SCRIPTVRE and SIGNES OF THE CHVRCH are the profitablest that can be stood vpon and such as I haue alway obserued our people commonliest vse and most desire to looke into not being able to apprehend the difference or iudge of the reasons in other questions but presuming that if by certain marks they could find which is the true Church there would remaine litle difficultie in the rest forsomuch as therein they should find the truth in euery controuersie 2 The proper cause why our aduersaries put this deuice into the peoples heads was to dazle their eyes and delude their sences with the name of THE CHVRCH that when they should find the word of God and all discourse against their opinions yet that name should amaze them while they might beleeue nothing vntill they were perswaded by other marks that it came from the CHVRCH And no doubt this is the a Apollodor Bibliothec. li. 2. Gorgons head that inchanteth and oppresseth them euen the learnedst of them all and holdeth them in bondage to their errors hauing a conceit that they wil heare nothing against the Church which they presuming to be the Papacy though it be but AN IMPOSTVME BRED IN THE CHVRCH or A DISEASE GROWING TO IT will go no further All their speech is of the Church no mention of the Scriptures or God their Father but their MOTHER THE CHVRCH Much like as b Solin poly hist c. 33. they write of certaine Aethiopians that by reason they vse no mariage but promiscuously companie together it cometh that the children onely follow the mother the fathers name is in no request but the mother goeth away with all the reputation Let their talke be listened and their bookes perused and it will appeare this authoritie of their Church is at the end of euery question and striketh the stroke as c Philostrat in imaginib one saith pleasantly of Aesops Fables that therein the Foxe is the chiefe stickler of all the company The beasts seldom meet but he is among them and beareth his part with the busiest 3 This matter is handled in this Booke betweene my aduersarie and me For though others haue done the same before me yet I haue done it in mine owne method The water is all one but the vessell wherein I haue brought it is my owne And it was the iudgement of d Trinit l. 1. c. 3. de Mendacio c. 6. Saint Austine that In places infected with heresie all men should write that had any facultie therein though it were but the same things in other words that all sorts of people among many bookes might light vpon some and the enemie in all places might find some to encounter him The Iesuites which are the Popes Ianizaries that guard his person and were brought in now at the last cast when the state of the Papacie was at a dead lift to support the waight of the maine battell haue pestered the land with their writings and filled the hands and pockets of all sorts of people with their papers yea fannes and feathers are lapped vp in them wherein it is admirable to see how presumptuously they take vpon them in disgracing our persons belying our doctrine and coining and defending strange opinions of their owne neuer heard of afore as if Chrysippus schoole had bred them e Diog. Laert. in Chrysip who vsed to make his boast that many times he wanted opinions to aduance but if once he had the opinion he neuer wanted arguments to defend it whose writings seeing they cannot be suppressed pitie but they were effectually answered The applause that ignorant and vnsetled minds giue them and the conquest that of late yeares they haue made of a few Libertines and discontented persons hath so fleshed them that it is incredible how they brag and sing like f Auentin Annal lib. 2. the clownes of Germany when they had expelled the Franks Mille Francos mille Sarmatas semel occidimus Mille mille mille mille mille Persas quaerimus But I dare boldly say it that if the maner how they haue preuailed be looked into g Praescript Tertullians speech will fall out to be true It is the weaknesse of some that giueth them the victory being able to do nothing when they encounter an able faith Discontent and vanitie of mind voide of the knowledge and faithfull practise of religion are good dispositions to heresie They liue Gentiles saith Cyprian and die heretickes h 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Dioâ— Laerâ— in Epicur Epicurus in his time with teaching pleasure and libertie filled the most houses and cities with his friends But if we looke what the motiues were that led them away and what the Iesuites said against vs I presume three verses in i Pâ—â—â—â—ol Plautus will answer them Quid ait quid narrat quaeso quid dicit tibi Nugas theatri verba quae in comoedijs Solent lenoni dici quae pueri sciunt 4 A singular misery no doubt and aboue all other to be lamented that mans mind so free so ready so able with those helpes that God hath left him to search out the truth yet should not be satisfied nor rest contented with heauen and earth or any other thing that God hath reuealed for the finding
Apostle to belong to them as well as to the Church of Rome whereby we may iudge how vndiscreet a part it is to be caried away with the name of a Church afore we haue enquired whether it keepe the ancient faith or so to be conceited of one Church that we will looke toward no other but it 7 The second point that deceiueth manie is the rumour and opinion that goeth of our aduersaries learning which is as weake a motiue to build on as the former when the greatest heretickes that euer were haue wanted no learning and we may be sure this of our aduersaries is not commended with the least Themselues are vnmeasurable and more then odious in extolling their owne facultie and their people as ridiculous and irkesome in reporting it It is nothing beseeming Christians to leaue the cause and to fall a boasting Let our bookes be viewed and the disputations betweene vs weighed and it will appeare they haue no such vantage no not in Art and learning and but that vnsetled braines are giuen vainly to admire nouelties our Church at home here in England to say nothing of those abroad who haue made our proudest enemies feele the edge of their learning hath brought forth and at this day yeeldeth as learned as our aduersaries euer had anie And that the Reader may haue some triall of this I will giue an example or two wherein he shall see and by that iudge of the rest how learnedly they carrie themselues now and then against vs and how great their skill is to helpe them when they are a little vrged 8 They haue a solemne tradition among them concerning the Assumption of the Virgine Marie the story whereof you may reade in the g Act. 1.14 Rhemish Testament to this effect Now at the time of her death all the Apostles then dispersed into diuerse nations to preach the Gospell were miraculously brought together sauing S. Thomas who came the third day after to Ierusalem to honour her diuine departure and funerall where before her death and after for three dayes not onely the Apostles and other holy men present but the Angels also and powers of heauen did sing most melodiously They buried her bodie in Gethsemanâ— but for S. Thomas sake who desired to see and reuerence it they opened the sepulcher the third day and finding it void of the holy bodie but exceedingly fragrant they returned assuredly deeming that her bodie was assumpted into heauen as the Church holdeth and therefore celebrateth most solemnely the day of her Assumption And h Anton. chron part 1. p. 147. Suar. tom 2. p. 200. some adde that companies of Saints and Angels and Christ himselfe for how else should he haue fulfilled the coÌ„mandement Honor thy father and thy mother met her and with great glory and ioy placed her in her throne This is the Legend and that no man should mistrust they could not defend it i Feâ—ard in Hest pag. 616. Rhem. act 1.14 Bristo mot 32. most bitterly they raile vpon all that denie it perswading men k Baron an 48. nu 17. 24. that it is the iudgement of the vniuersall Church l Cathar opusc dè concept yea a point of faith The ground whereupon they stand is the Testimonie of many authors a certaine writing of Iohn the Euangelist Dionysius Areopagita Melito Athanasius Ierome Austine Damascene Bernard Andreas Cretensis Nicephorus Metaphrastes Glycas c. Who would not thinke but here were a learned defence of that they say But marke the issue First we haue shewed them and it is the truth that whatsoeuer the later writers Damascene Bernard Andreas Metaphrastes Nicephorus Glycas and others of those times haue written touching this matter is borrowed from the former authours Dionysius Melito the writing of S. Iohn Athanasius Ierome and Austin and can haue no more credite then the said authours haue from whom it is borrowed Now these authors we proue to be all forged and our aduersaries in the pursuite of the matter confesse it m D. 15. sancta Romana Sixt. Senens p. 104. The booke going vnder the name of S. Iohn is bored through the eare by the Pope himselfe in a Councell and so is Melito as n An. 48. n. 12. Baronius acknowledgeth who calleth him an idle companion full of dotages and fooleries vnworthie of Christian audience The same censure he giueth o Nu. 13. inde of Sophronius and Ierome to Paul Eustoch and p Nu. 20. inde of Athanasius confessing them to be forged in their names and full of lies and impostures And q Nu. 17. of that which goeth vnder the name of Austine as the Diuines of Louan haue done before him Dionysius is he that when all is done must beare the burden But he also is acknowledged by r Erasm declar ad Censur Parisiens theol p. 180. Caietan Valla annot in Act. 17. right skilfull Papists to be a counterfet And if the Rhemists Å¿ In Act. 1.14 say true that the blessed Virgine liued but 63. yeares then by t She bare Christ at 15. yeares Christ died at 33 then she was 48. whereto if you adde 15. more it maketh them 63 and that yeare falleth into the yeare of Christ 48. computation of times she died in the eight and fortieth yeare after Christs birth what time Dionysius could not as the booke going vnder his name pretendeth be present For the same Rhemists u Table of Sainâ— Paul p. 375. say he was not conuerted till an 51 and Baronius x An. 52. nu 1. not till an 52 which was three or foure yeares after her death Besides Baronius y Nu. 19. is driuen to confesse her sepulcher was not found or knowne in Ieromes time but when at the length not much before the dayes of Iuuenalis the Bishop of Ierusalem it was found and that without the body by occasion hereof the argument of writing concerning the assuming of her body into heauen was exhibited for before that time none had writ so Let this be noted If her sepulcher was not knowne nor her body missed out of it nor no man writ of her assumption till Iuuenalis time how can Dionysius that liued so long afore mention it Againe let the booke be Dionysius his owne and legitimate yet the words thereof conuince not this Assumption He saith no more but thus z De Diuin nomin p. 281. graec When we also as you know and your selfe and many of our holy brethren came together to behold the body which the Prince of life was in and which receiued God where Iames the brother of our Lord also was present and Peter the highest and ancientest top of the Diuines then after we had beheld it pleased all the Bishops as euerie one was able to praise the almightie goodnesse of his infirmitie that was the beginning of life vnto vs Where Ierotheus as you know excelled all the other holy
this consent a man may infallibly know or else in vaine had g Act. 17.11 the Beraeans searched the Scriptures to see whether those things were so as Paul and Silas preached and in vaine did h Isa 8.20 the Prophet send the people to the law and to the testimonie if thereby one could not be secured But many perswade themselues they are taught by the spirit and yet are deceiued and this may be such a perswasion I answer i Greg. de Valē tom 3. disput theol disp 1. q. 1. punct 1. Stapl. princip doctr l. 8. c. 22. Triplic in admonit ad Whitak the Papists cannot denie but there is a heauenly light which assureth the children of God of it selfe and Saint Luke k Luc. 1.4 saith the writing of his Gospell was able to giue the certaintie of those things whereof Theophilus was instructed and l Col. 2.2 Saint Paul was exceeding carefull that the Laodiceans might haue the full assurance of vnderstanding to know the mysterie of God Now will the Iesuite denie all this assurance and call it but a perswasion which is concluded from the testimonie of the word Will he reiect the light of the Scripture and witnesse of the holy Ghost which worketh all things in all men m 1. Ioh. 5.10 Ioh. 7.17 that they may see it n 2. Cor. 4.4 whose eyes the God of this world hath not blinded But some are deceiued True o 2. Thess 2.11 such as haue strong delusions to beleeue lies p 2. Cor. 3.14 or a veile ouer their heart in reading but how followeth this some are deceiued therefore all But who without testimonie of miracle or some other infallible proofe dare arrogantly affirme that he onely is not deceiued I answer the triall maybe made without miracles which q His booke against the transt of the Scripture cap. 3. D. Standish a Papist saith were giuen but for a time as Austine in his dayes did witnesse saying he that would looke for a miracle then was a miracle to the world himselfe But without some other infallible proofe it cannot which proofe is the Scripture it selfe more infallible then either r Luc. 16.31 miracles or ſ 2. Pet. 1.19 visions and to rely vpon it is no arrogancie but obedience which some men doing against the Romish heresies not they onely saw the truth but more saw it with them whom t 1. Reg. 29.18 God reserued to himselfe in all countries though the Iesuite and his partakers were none of them 5 His third argument followeth No man teaching against the Catholick Church can assure others that he is taught of God vnles he haue the testimonie of miracles therefore no priuate man can be this infallible rule of faith I answer granting the conclusion that no priuate man is the rule of faith yet a priuate man as I haue distinguished teaching against the Romish church falsly termed Catholick may giue infallible assurance of his teaching without miracle as I haue said already here wil declare further by answering the Iesuits confused discourse more particularly 6 First he saith It is not Gods manner to teach men immediatly by himself but by meanes of his Church and Pastors Whereto I answer that neither do we say these priuate men of whom the question is were taught immediatly by inspiration but had their knowledge by meanes of the scripture truly taught in the Church according to the manner touched in u Rom. 10.17 Mal. 2.7 Eph. 4 12. the three texts alledged onely we say the Papacie was not this Church nor the Priests thereof those pastors and doctors whom God had put in his Church that from their lips the faith might be required but they were degenerate into rauening wolues and Antichristian heretickes and such these priuate men both Pastors and people proued them to be by the Scriptures as when the Pharises x Math 5.20 15.3 16.6 12. 23.13 had generally corrupted the law y Marc. 14.64 Ioh. 7.48 8.13 9.22 42. denying Iesus to be Christ z Ioh. 5.39 he reproued them by the Scriptures But suppose one thinke himselfe to be immediatly taught of God how should he giue assurance to others that he is so taught vnlesse he had miracles I answer assurance of immediate teaching he can giue none neither is it needfull for I know no particular man or Church of the Protestants that pretendeth immediate teaching but we all confesse and proue the Scriptures and Pastors of Christs true Church haue taught vs and hereof we dayly giue assurance to those that haue hearts to beleeue But how can priuate men be assured without miracles This is answered alreadie a Hom. 3. de Laz. Chrysostome saith God hath left vs the Scriptures more firme then any miracle And to them Austine reuoketh vs from miracles b De Vnit. eccl c. 16 Say not these things are so because such a one did such and such maruels but let them proue their Church by the canonicall bookes of the Scripture and by nothing else these are the demonstration of our cause these are our foundation these are our grounds whereupon we build But no man can giue assurance he teacheth true that teacheth men to forsake the Catholicke Church that is taught of God I answer the Iesuite saith true in this and c Mat. 28.20 Ioh 14.16 16.13 the texts alledged proue well that Christ abideth with this Catholicke Church for euer But he should haue remembred that these priuate men taught vs to forsake nothing but the Papacie prouing the same to be the kingdome of Antichrist And as for the Catholicke Church it consisteth in these men alone whom the Iesuite calleth priuate though he and his fellowes very foolishly haue arrogated the name to themselues For they are Catholickes which be of sound faith and good life saith d Qu. in Mat◠c. 11. Austine not they e Apoc. 2.2 which say they are Apostles and are not but are found liers or f vers 9. calling themselues Iewes are the synagogue of Satan 7 Therefore also the Iesuite may preach his text of vae prophetis Ezech. 13.3 to his Cleargie at home g Dist 40. Si Papa who are bound to the Popes spirit though he leade them to hell For to follow the Scripture and Gods spirit speaking publickly in the same is not to follow a mans owne spirit which the Prophet condemneth And whereas he concludeth that it is not sufficient to alledge words of Scripture because euery sectmaster yea the diuell alledgeth Scripture for his opinion I answer that neither do we thinke it enough to alledge words of Scripture but the Scripture truly applied which neither the diuell nor sectaries nor Papists can do But what a loose kind of reasoning is this the diuell alledgeth Scripture therefore the Scripture is no sufficient warrant For did not our Sauiour confute the diuell by only Scripture rightly vnderstood
that Moses taught wherein onely they might be followed and no further u Lib. 3 in Mat. cap. 23. Ferus saith that Christs commandement Obserue and do whatsoeuer they bid you bound them not to obserue all the decrees of the Pharises but so farre forth as they agreed with the law in like sort he said to the Apostles and their successors He that heareth you heareth me and he that despiseth you despiseth me but Matthew had set downe before that he charged them to preach the Gospell whereby it appeareth that the Apostles must be heard but so farre forth as they be Apostles that is as they do Christs message and teach the things which Christ commandeth but if they teach other things or contrary to Christ then are they no more Apostles but seducers and not to be heard Which exposition of Ferus a Papist excludeth you see the Iesuites collection for the infalliblenesse of all the Prelates doctrine and giueth the people libertie to examine it by the Gospell 9 Neither did any of the auncient Fathers vnderstand the place otherwise for Austine in x Ep. 165. ad Generos the place alledged onely affirmeth two things first that in the Church of Rome there had bene a continuall succession of Bishops from Peter to Anastasius who then liued which he saith because the Donatist in his epistle to Generosus had pretended a certaine succession of Bishops from Donatus the beginner of that sect and to satisfie him that if succession were to be stood vpon then there might a succession of better likelihood be brought against him Secondly he affirmeth that in all this Romane succession there had bene neuer a Donatist and though there had yet should the people of God incurre no danger thereby because Christ hath forewarned them of euill ouerseers that they follow their teaching and not their doing In all which discourse what one word is there whereby it may be gathered that Austine thought as the Iesuite doth that in all points we must do according to the doctrine of the Prelates or that the Church and Bishops of Rome can erre in nothing for the succession mentioned implieth no such matter for any thing that Austine saith And the other words Our Lord hath prouided for his Church by saying of euill Prelates Do what they say but not what they do can shew no other meaning in him then was in Christ and how Christ meant them I haue alreadie set downe the summe whereof is that no Christian man forsake the vnitie of the Church for the Pastors euill life but that still they heare them and follow them as long as they teach out of the chaire that is according to the doctrine of Moses and Peter from which the Romish Church is departed long ago So that those words Do what they teach being referred to the former they sit in Moses chaire must be expounded ioyntly with them Do what they teach out of the chaire which being granted how followeth it from hence that therefore the teachers can erre in nothing 10 The last place is Math. 18.17 If he refuse to heare the Church let him be vnto thee as a heathen and a publican Which words the Iesuite saith containe a threatning against such as do not in all things follow the Church y Bellarm. de verbo Dei l. 3. c. 5. Eman. Sa. Not. Mat. 18.17 meaning the Pastors of the Church Whereunto I answer two things first it followeth not that the Church cannot erre because we are bidden to heare it for so we are commaunded to z Rom. 13.1 obey magistrates and yet they may commaund things vnlawfull and a Act. 4.19 Dan. 3.18 6.10 in such a case they must not be obeyed It was a law to the Iewes that b Deut. 17.8 in matters of weight they should repaire to the Priest and do according to that which he should iudge without declining from it yet Vriah and Annas and Caiaphas were not of infallible iudgement Therefore the meaning is that we must obediently heare the Church and yeeld vnto it not simply in all things but conditionally as long as it speaketh things agreeable to the word of God as was answered to the former places Secondly the things properly which Christ here mentioneth and wherein he biddeth vs heare the Church are not determinations of faith but Church-censures and admonitions wherein it is cleare the true Church of Christ may sometime misse it and be admonished by her children notwithstanding this threatning of Christ as when c Ioh. 9.3 4. the Iewes excommunicated him that was borne blind and d Niceph. l. 12. c. 33. the East and West Churches censured one another about the keeping of Easter For e Hieron comment in Math. c. 16. ignorant Bishops and Elders sometimes take vp the seueritie of Pharises condemning the innocent and acquiting the guiltie Pope Innocent saith in f Decretal Greg. lib. 5. de sententia excom cap. 28. A nobis est saepe the Canon law Gods iudgement alway leaneth vpon the truth which neither deceiueth vs nor is deceiued it selfe But the Churches iudgement oftentimes followeth opinion which many times falleth out both to deceiue vs and to be deceiued it selfe Whereby it cometh to passe sometime that he is loosed in the Church who is bound with God and he loosed with God who is wrapt in the Churches censure Vpon which words g Super 5. de sententia excom à Nobis 2. Panormitane writing saith A generall Councell representing the whole Church may very well erre in excommunicating him that should not be excommunicate Whereby we see the Church may erre in her censures notwithstāding these words of Christ And if in censures then let the Iesuit yeeld a sound reason why not as wel in points of faith or else confesse the words of Christ to be meant as I haue said § 15. Worthily therefore doth S. Paul call this Church Columna firmamentum veritatis 1. Tim. 3. the pillar and ground of truth Also S. Austin in lib. contra Cresc giueth this generall aduice Quisquis falli metuit huius obscuritate quaestionis Ecclesiam de illa consulat quam sine vlla ambiguitate Scriptura sancta demonstrat Whosoeuer is afraid to be deceiued with the obscuritie of this question let him require the iudgement of the Church which without ambiguitie the holy Scripture doth demonstrate By which words he sheweth vs that the way not to be deceiued in an obscure question is to aske and follow the iudgement of the Church The Answer 1 There is no man denieth but it is a good way not to be deceiued in an obscure question to aske and follow the iudgement of the Church so it be the true Church which the Romane companie is not But yet neither is it the onely way as I haue touched alreadie nor if it be doth it hence follow that therefore it selfe is the rule and free from all blemish of error because the
them and to no more the order is giuen Tell the Church Besides this speech is like that of d Cap. 2. v. â— Malachie The Priests lips shall preserue knowledge and the people shall seeke the law at his mouth whereas notwithstanding e Mat. 5.21 inde Ioh. 11.50 sometime they had no Priest to aske and f otherwhiles such as they had wanted knowledge and deliuered that which was not law But the meaning was that this order should be obserued for the peoples instruction to preserue them in obedience if they did not fall from it So to tell the Church is a rule prescribed to be vsed when the Church enioyeth her libertie and outward gouernement but when the externall state thereof and publicke entercourse of the faithfull with the same shal ceasse when the communion of the faithfull shall be in secret and all Ecclesiasticall order lie buried the altars forsaken the Church emptie then it bindeth not because the meanes faile Neither doth it imply any such perpetuall visiblenesse as the Iesuite would tie the Church to For it was a law that men should come to Ierusalem and worship there yet this implied not any perpetuall glorie to that citie it was also a law that euery male child should be circumcised the eight day and yet vpon necessitie it was omitted fortie yeares And the Papists confessing that sometimes none can discerne the Church but such as very wisely esteeme of things hereby grant that all men at all times cannot tell the Church specially if you adde another point f Ema Sa. not in Math. 18.17 Fr. Victor relect 2. parum ante finem that by the Church is meant the Pastors onely for they may be scattered or hidden that we cannot haue them ready to tel them euery time a brother trespasseth Lastly this commandement may be fulfilled by the faithfull among themselues in the same maner as I said before of confession For g Math. 18.20 where the true professors are there is the Church either all or a part and they so many as liue together see and know one another and can tell the Church though the world heare not their voice § 21. Fourthly it is certaine that once the Church was visible to wit when it first began in Ierusalem in the Apostles and Disciples of our Sauiour Christ and that companie which by their preaching were conuerted to the faith But there can no reason of difference be shewed why it should be visible then and not now The Answer 1 He might as well say it is certaine that once the Sunne was visible but there can no reason be giuen why it should not be so alwayes for as reasons may be giuen why the Sunne though sometime cleare yet sometime may be eclipsed or departed out of our horizon so may there as euident differences be yeelded why the Church afterward and the Church at Ierusalem were not alike visible h Esa 2.3 Mic. 4.2 First the Church of the new Testament was then to begin and therefore it was meete the Pastors and people thereof should appeare to the world Next persecutions were not then so grieuous as afterward they were Thirdly the apostacy foretold by Saint Paul was not then begun but ensued long after which Apostasie was the cloud that hid the Church And yet if another conceit of the Papists be true i Alexand. p 3. qu. vlt. nu 5. art 2. Panorm de elect electi poâ—c significasti Durand â—at l. 6. c. 72 nu 25. TurrecreÌ„ sum l. 3. c. 61. that about the time of Christs passion the true faith remained in none but the virgin Marie the Iesuites argument here wil fall and our Church at the worst hath alway bene as visible as then it was For as for this present time and age we thinke it k Hem fieri potuit vt tot Germani Angli Scoti Bohemi Vngari Dani Succi Gotthi Noâ—uegienses Prusli Lithuam Liuonij eò caecitatis peâ—uenerint Tho. Boz de Sign Eccl. l. 19 c. 1. pag. 606. as visible all ouer the world as the Church of Rome is And if the Iesuite thinke we hold otherwise he is deceiued § 22. Fiftly the onely reason and ground by which heretickes hold the Church to be inuisible is because they imagine the Church to consist onely of the elect or at least of the good But this is a false ground for it is euident that the Church militant consisteth of the good and bad as is signified by those parables wherein it is compared to a floore wherein are mixed wheate and chaffe Mat. 3. and to a net wherein are gathered all sorts of fishes good and bad Mat. 13. and to a mariage to which came good and bad Matth. 22. and to ten virgins whereof fiue were foolish and excluded from the celestiall mariage Mat. 25. This also is gathered out of S. Paule who 1. Cor. 5. commandeth them to expell an incestuous person out of the Church and therefore it doth not consist of those onely which be good The Answer 1 Here the Iesuite grosly bewrayeth either his ignorance or malice in that he saith this is the onely ground wherupon heretickes hold the inuisible Church because it consists of the elect onely For the question betweene vs now is about the inuisiblenesse not of the vniuersall Church but of the militant as he himselfe acknowledgeth And let him if he can for the credit of his word shew where any one of those whom he calleth heretickes maketh the mixture of good and badde in the Church militant the reason why it is sometime hidden from the world For our proper grounds are these a Luc. 18.8 â— Thes 2.3 Apoc 9.1 12.6 13 3.7 the Prophecies and b 1. Reg. 19.2 Reg. 2.2 ChroÌ„ 15.3 28.20 24.2 Reg. 21. examples of the Scripture the experience of times and euents shewing it the blindnesse of the world the nature and necessitie of the Church all which conuince it to be true that we say Whereas the mixture of euill men is so far from holding vs in the point that we confesse hypocrites may also in secret professe with true beleeuers and so be part of this inuisible Church Let him therefore recall his ouersight and forbeare these forgeries which tend to nothing but the stealing away of their affections that know not how things stand betweene vs. 2 Indeed another position of ours that saith the Catholicke Church is inuisible that is to say the Church mentioned in the creed euery member whereof is saued is inuisible and consisteth not of any externall assembly that we see is grounded on this that it containeth none but the elect but not as the Iesuit vntruly saith on this alone we haue other grouÌ„ds beside First because the triumphant Church is part of the Catholick which being in heauen no earthly eye seeth or knoweth Next no man knoweth Gods elect yet none but they are the verie Catholicke Church Thirdly all the persons and
8. c. 22 Zosim l. 5. Socr l. 6. c. 18. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p. 262. The Cathedrall Church at Constantinople with the Senate house were set on fire burned to the ground in the pursuit of reuenge The people were robbed of their Pastors and the Pastors themselues persecuted each other and pursued their people most vnmercifully Caesar Baronius beginning to intreate of this contention z Annal tom 5 An. 400. nu 51. hath these words A shamefull contention in the Church the lamentable narration wherof I now take in hand wherein shall be described the bickering and cursed persecution not of Gentile against Christians or heretickes against Catholickes or wicked men against good and iust men but which is monstrous and prodigious of Saints and holy men one against another The which words make it plaine that this contention was among Gods owne children in the true Church The like is written of the Bishops in the Councell of Nice a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Sozo l. 1 c. 17. accusing one another to the Emperour as soone as they were assembled of whose iarres that famous speech of Constantine made vnto them vpon that occasion giueth witnesse wherin among many other things b Soz. ibid. Niceph l 8. c. 16. idem in Conc. â—y â—apud Niceph l 8. c. 50. Euseb vit CoÌ„stant l. 3. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he telleth them that he thinketh this worse then all the euils to be vttered that he seeth the Church of God dissenting by contentions and contrary opinions Yea Sozomen c 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 lib. 1. c. 16. saith The contrarietie of opinions among the learned at that time was so scandalous that it turned many from embracing the Christian religion So likewise in a Councell holden at Constantinople for the deposing of Nazianzen he thus admonisheth the Bishops d Vita Nazian praefixa operibus eius Graecè editis Basil It is a shame ô my fellow Pastors of the sacred flocke of Christ and not befitting you if while you teach others peace your selues fall to warre and how shall you perswade others to vnitie your selues being at variance In the second Councell of Ephesus Flauianus the Bishop of Constantinople was deposed e Liberat. breu c. 12. Niceph. l. 14. c. 47. pitifully murthered f Euagr. l. 1. c. 10 Niceph. l. 14. c. 47. with him were also deposed Eusebius Dorilaeus Ibas Theodoret Domnus Daniel Aquilinus and Irenaeus all Catholicke Bishops and this was not done by the faction of Dioscorus alone g Baro. An. 449 nu 97. 98. 105. but by the Catholicke Bishops themselues all which saith Baronius Consented both to the restoring of Eutyches and deposing of Flauianus and the rest There was in this contentious Councell aboue 132. Bishops whereof the foure Patriarkes beside the Popes Deputie were part yea it was an Oecumenicall Councell lawfully assembled of Catholicke Bishops yet through the conueiance of cunning aduersaries they were set one against another For the godly men of those times had secret enemies grieuous wolues in sheeps clothing who tooke all occasions to abuse their simplicity and set them at variance among themselues For so do men vse h Sozo l. 6. c. 4. saith an old historie speaking of this matter as long as strangers wrong them to hold together but when they are deliuered frâ—m outward troubles then they fall out among themselues Thus the policie of the Arrians kindled those contentions that among the Catholickes brake out in the cause of Athanasius and by strange deuices nourished them wherby they drew godly Bishops into their faction against the truth as i Haer 68. Epiphanius noteth of the Meletians * Primas fereÌ„tes tum in pietate tuÌ„ in vita Meletiani qui summam iustitiam veritatis demonstrabaÌ„t Godly men that being mingled with the Arrians though they abode in the true faith yet were they not free from some contagion which they gathered in that societiâ— and one part hereof was k Atha orat 1. contr Arrian their standing with others against Athanasius This was it that bred the troubles among the Bishops in the Councels of Seleucia Syrmium Antioch Tirus Lampsacum Ariminum and many other wherin euermore something was practised euen by Bishops of the true faith against their fellow Bishops and the faith it selfe The Councell of Ariminum is famous for this wherein there were aboue 400. Bishops of the West all Catholicke l Athan. de Synod but 50. or therabouts that were Arrians and yet they relented from the faith of the Nicen Councel towards Arrianisme and gaue occasion of infinite broiles in the Church afterward by their inconstancie 5 And long before this Saint Cyprian lamented Church-contentions and m L. 4. Ep. 4. thinketh God sent the persecutions of his time for no other cause These euils saith he had not come vpon the brethren if they had bin linked together in brotherly concord And a little after the persecution of Iulian was ouer the stories n Sozo l. 6. c 4. Niceph. l. 10. c. 40. tell how the Church-gouernours againe moued questions and disputations about the dogmaticall points of faith And Eusebius beginning to intreate of the bloody persecution which the Church suffered vnder Diocletian saith the contentions of the learned therein was the cause o Lib. 8. hist c. 1 these are his words They also saith he which seemed to be our Pastors casting off the rule of piety inflamed themselues with mutuall contentions each against other they increased nothing but strife threats enuy and quarels euerie man with all tyranny pursuing his ambition Neither did the persecution ensuing stay this dissention but as soone as euer peace came to the Church they fell to it againe p Euseb vit Constan l. 3. Gela. CyzeceÌ„ Act conc Nic. l. 2 c. 7. 8. that the good Emperour which brought this peace had much ado with all his authoritie to appease them wherupon Basil the great maketh this sorowfull complaint In other arts and sciences q Aschet proae de iudic Dei p. â—89 Graec. The like complaint made by the Emperour Theodosius of the Catholicke Bishops in his time 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Concil Ephes pag. 235. saith he I haue seene much concord among the professors thereof onely in the Church of God I haue obserued so much diuision and so exceeding great dissention of many both among themselues and against the holy Scriptures and that which is most horrible the Bishops themselues haue stood in such difference among themselues both of mind and opinion and contrary to the commandements of Christ haue vsed such contrarietie that thereby the Church of God hath bene vnmercifully drawn in sunder and his flocke troubled without all care and pitie A heauy complaint and such as chargeth the Church with a foule blemish euen as foule euery way as that wherewith the Iesuite and the rest of our enemies this day vpbraid the Church
Councell are penned so cunningly and i For Apollo his oracles alwaies equiuocated Ambigua semper incerta obliquaque erāt ipsius responsa Iul. Lessign de cognom Deorum lib 1. c. 4. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Scol Aristoph in Pluto oraclewise that they will reasonably beare as many expositions as there shall be opinions and then albeit the contention be neuer so great yet who dares say the contenders submit not themselues to their chiefe Pastor when euerie side shall expound his decree for his owne opinion 8 Moreouer if it were true that all Papists acknowledge the Pope to be their iudge and of such infallible truth in all his teaching that they may and must boldly yeeld all their iudgements and wits to his let them satisfie the world how it fell out that they haue depriued so many Popes yea for heresie for it should seeme in this case that their Church tooke vpon her authority to direct him when he was out of the way and when there haue bene diuers Popes at once k Nullus enim fuit illo tempopore Concilij Constantiēsis certus Papa Caiet tract de author Pap. Con c. 27. ad 6. what time it was vncertaine who was Pope what submission could there be to this chiefe Pastor Or if it be true that a Councell is aboue the Pope which l Cusan concord l. 2. c. 20. 34. Panorm de elect c. significasti Facta capitulorum vniuersitatum quia superiorē habent non sunt aequanda gestis conciliorum vbi solum Deus est superior à quibus non appellatur Aen. Sylu. ep 25. the most and the ancientest Papists beleeue and m Concil Constant Sess 4. 5. Concil Basil Sess 2. two generall Councels decreed how can it be said that Papists holding this opinion depend vpon the Pope as the Iesuite pretendeth 9 Thus we see how the Papists esteeme their Popes at home hey thinke it a perillous matter to be tyed so straightly to him they thinke it lawfull to resist him they beleeue he may fall into heresie yea preach it and practise the destruction of the Church they beleeue a Councell is aboue him and may restraine or depose him they beleeue he and his Councels may erre in euery part and circumstance of his definitions but the conclusion it selfe they haue notoriously maintained opinions against his decrees they haue deposed him and bene in that straight that they knew not who was Pope whereupon I say it is a most intollerable thing to endure the hearing of these loud brags that they make abrode concerning their obedience to him and so willing acceptation of his iudgement for the ending of controuersies and I am firmely perswaded by the experience of their writings behauiour that whatsoeuer they pretend abrode among the ignorāt they haue a most base opinion both of his person and iudgement For Guicciardine a man very neare him n Hist l. 16. writeth that the goodnesse Apostolicke is then commended when he exceedeth not al other men in wickednes And Fr. Victoria speaking of his practise in dispensing o Relect. 4. de potest Pap. Concil Pro. 12. saith Giue me Clements Lines and Siluesters that is Popes as good as were Clemens Linus and Syluester and I wil permit euery thing to their iudgment but that I say no worse against these later Popes certainly they are inferior to those ancient Popes by many degrees 10 But supposing all Papists as the Iesuite speaketh do acknowledge one chiefe Pastor ouer them to whose definitions in all matters they submit themselues yet hence it followeth not that therfore they haue the true vnitie and cannot dissent for p Fere semper seruata haec consuetudo vt acta priorum pontificum sequentes aut infringerent aut omnino tollerent Plat. in Steph. VI. the Pope may be at controuersie with himselfe or possible his mind cannot be known as of a long time it was not when the Friers contended about the conception of the virgin Marie nor is not to this day q Suar tom 2. disp 3. sect 6. the Church hauing defined nothing in this matter and possible r Suar. vbi prius refert as Caietan and Cano haue obserued cannot by reason the opinion that holdeth her conception without sinne is in shew godly but indeed vntrue and vaine But that which is principally to be obiected the spirit of God hath neither giuen him such vprightnesse of iudgment that he can alway define the truth nor put him into such authoritie that men necessarily are bound to obey him the which being true then it will follow that all such as relie most vpon him shall either not consent at all or consent in error and a people may be vnited to the Pope and yet be without the true vnion of Christs Church ſ Nilus l. de primat Neceph Greg. l. 10. hist Rom. c. vlt. And assuredly the Greekes complaine that this vsurpation of the Pope to be head of al Churches and iudge of all matters hath bene the very fountaine of all our diuisions 11 Against this the Iesuite replyeth that the Pope hath infallibility and authoritie of iudgement both giuen him by Christ so that it were impossible his people should dissent and for confirmation hereof he alledgeth 3. texts of Scripture wherein he saith our Sauiour Christ spake of Peter and his successors meaning the Pope and gaue them this power that he speaketh of and so concludeth that by vertue of Christs owne ordinance the Pope is the meanes to vphold the vnitie of the Church whose determinations the Papists receiuing cannot disagree Wherunto I will answer distinctly three things First that in all the words alledged our Sauior meant the rest of the Apostles as well as Peter Secondly whomsoeuer he meant yet the words spoken containe no such thing in them as the Iesuite gathereth Thirdly supposing they were meant of Peter and contained the primacie yet the Pope is not Peters successor and so consequently hath no part in them the which parts of my answer being iustified there wil no doubt remaine but the vnitie of the Romish Church is proclaymed and set forth vpon vncertaine grounds 12 First I say that all these words of Christ I will giue vnto thee the keyes and vpon this rocke I wil build my Church Mat. 16.18 I haue prayed for thee that thy faith faile not Luc. 22.32 and feed my sheepe Ioh. 21.15 were not meant or intended to Peter alone but to the rest of the disciples with him Of the first place in Mat. 16. it is cleare For t Bell. de Ro. pont l. 1. c. 10. §. Ac vt à primo c. 11. § Catholici autem c. 13. §. At no◠Catholici the rocke and the keyes signifie the same thing so that to whō Christ promised the one he promised the other but the keyes and al the power thereof was promised giuen to al alike as is proued for
giuen to nature which belongeth to grace that cannot be without eminent danger But whatsoeuer we haue done in the point this I am sure of that our aduersaries are gone too farre euen by their owne confession There haue not bene wanting Diuines in our times d 22. p. 390. saith Dom. Bannes who haue giuen too much to freewill and the power of nature and while they thought to eschue the error of Lutherans they fell into the proud heresie of Pelagians And * Et 393. to make men free they haue made them proud filled them with sacriledge This is the truth For freewill hath of it selfe either some strength though small or none at all If any then Christ said not true without me ye can do nothing If none then where is freewill and the cooperation thereof with Gods grace I will end the point with Saints Austins complaint e De verb. Apost Ser. 2. Vnthankfull men to ascribe so much to weake wounded nature true it is that man when he was made had great strength of freewill but by sinne he lost it But f Sixt. Senens praefat l. 5. Staplet de Iustif l. 2. c. vlt. our aduersaries thinke Saint Austin went too farre in this question attributing too little to mans will § 41. In the Romane Church I confesse there be some bad and sinfull folke For the Church is called nigra formosa blacke and faire Cant. 1. because in it are mixed good and bad as out of diuerse parables of our Sauiour I proued before but there are two differences betwixt the sinfull which are in the Romane Church and among the sectaries And first of those that are among the sectaries there are none truly Holy of which as of the better or more worthie part their Church may be denominated and termed Holy as the Romane Church may be It may perhaps be that diuers of them abstaine from grosser sinnes as swearing backbiting stealing c. and that they do sometimes many workes morally good as giue almes erect hospitals liue at least in outward shew in modest and moderate sort but alas these be not sufficient or certaine signes of sanctitie all this and perhaps much more we may find in the heathen Philosophers These outward actions may proceed from naturall and sometimes from vicious and sinfull motiues and consequently may be verie farre from true holinesse which must proceede of true charitie without which charitie to distribute all that one hath to feed the poore or to giue ones bodie to burne doth nothing profite 1. Cor. 13. The which charitie must proceed de corde puro conscientia bona fide non ficta 1. Tim. 1. The which things being most inward and consequently hidden and secret cannot sufficiently be shewed to be present by those outward actions Nay they cannot be infallibly knowne of the partie himselfe for Nemo scit vtrum amore an odio dignus sit quis potest dicere mundum est cor meum Pro. 20. but are reserued to him onely qui scrutatur corda to wit almightie God and it cannot be perfectly knowne of vs who haue them truly and consequently who be truly Saints vnlesse it please him to reueale it by miracle or some other certaine way vnto vs. The Answer 1 To proue we are not the holy Church of God the Iesuite obiected our sinfull liues as if we had bene of worse conuersation then the professors of the true faith could be But forsomuch as he wisely foresaw that if we fell to comparing the liues of one another his owne Church would receiue as much disgrace thereby as ours and his argument bent against vs in the discharge would recoile vpon himselfe and roll in the fall vpon the heads of his owne people because they are as bad and sinfull as their fellowes therefore now he answereth that difficultie by assigning a difference betweene the people of his Church and the people of ours in this point and the difference he saith is this that although in his Romane Church there be some bad and sinfull yet all are not so whereas with vs there are none good but all are wicked A proud and ridiculous bragge but yet I answer it True holinesse consisteth in the concourse of the righteousnesse of iustification and sanctification The former of iustification is wheresouer Christ with all his merits is imputed and apprehended by faith for the pardon of our sinnes and accepting of vs againe to eternall life a Rom. 4.11 3.24 This is called the righteousnes of faith and they which haue it are truly holy thereby and our Church teacheth it against the Church of Rome that hath renounced it and so depriued her children of all true holinesse The second of sanctification is when we bring forth fruites worthy of amendment of life not walking after the flesh but after the spirit And we affirme that in our Church this also is ioyned with the former though we all confesse it be in great weaknesse and farre from that perfection which we desire and such as walke in it b 1. Ioh. 3.7 Mat. 7.16 12.33 Rom. 8.9 Gal. 5.22 Eph. 5.9 2. Pet. 1.5 are proued thereby to be truly holy 2 Against this externall righteousnes of our sanctification the Iesuite obiecteth that though we abstaine from grosser sinnes and do many good morall works c. yet this is no certaine signe we are holy for this and much more may proceed from sinfull motions and be found among the very Gentiles Whereto I answer that this were a good argument against vs if we had no righteousnesse among vs but such as he hath herein described For this morall holinesse is no holinesse indeed neither do we thereby declare the holinesse of our Church but say the good workes done among vs proceed from faith and loue and are directed to the glory of God according to the rules of sanctification and so are sufficient to testifie for vs. And we grant as the Iesuit requireth that many great and plausible workes of moralitie may proceed from naturall yea sinful motiues and that therefore there is no true holinesse vnlesse it proceed from charitie grounded on a pure heart and a good conscience and faith vnfained but we adde withall that the workes of our Church proceed from this charitie and thence receiue their condition of holinesse 3 And how doth the Iesuite know the contrary because he saith so confidently the holinesse found among vs ariseth not from charitie What is the ground whereupon he saith so He answereth true charitie a good conscience and faith be things inward and secret and therefore cannot by our outward actions be shewed to be present nay he saith the partie himself without reuelation or miracle cannot be sure he hath them The which if it be true I desire him to answer plainly how he knoweth his owne good workes proceed from faith and charitie and by what meanes he will demonstrate it to me that
who faile to say no more very much from Apostolike perfection and Angelical puritie of life according to Saint Paul anathema sit yea such a one as not onely bringeth not this Catholicke or generall receiued doctrine but bringeth in a new and contrary doctrine we should not according to Saint Iohn Epist 2. salute or say once Aue to him and much lesse should we giue credite to his words or vse him as a rule of our faith or preferre his teaching before the teaching of the Catholicke Church The Answer 1 And is it true that if God send any one in an extraordinary maner it appertaineth to his prouidence to furnish him with miracles or the people should not be bound to beleeue him How is it then said of Iohn Baptist a Ioh. 10 41. that was thus sent that he did no miracle yet all things that he spake of Christ were true And what will the Iesuite say to his b Boz sign eccl l. 18. c. 1. Baro an 34. n. 274. masters that so ridiculously haue put it in print that albeit in the Acts of the Apostles it be said that signes and wonders were done by the Apostles yet there is no signe reported that was done by any but by Peter the rest of the Apostles therefore either did none at all or almost none and very slender in comparison of those which Peter did And as the fathers say Iohn Baptist did no miracles lest any thing should be diminished from Christs authoritie so may it be said of Christs vicar Peter A grosse and a greasie conceit and swimming with blasphemie yet the Iesuite must sup it off because so skilfull clearks haue giuen it him but when he hath done good reason he recant his present assertion and bind not the Protestants to that which the Apostles themselues wanted in a manner all but Peter It is incredible how scurrilously the Papists behaue themselues in this point of miracles c Staph. apol part 1. Hosius confess Polon c. 92. Not one of these new Gospellers was euer able so much as to cure a lame colt or a halting bitch and yet when they will flatter the Pope they shame not to write that all the Apostles did as little 2 But I will answer the Iesuite directly to the point that ordinarily it appertaineth to Gods prouidence to furnish with miracles such as rise vp in an extraordinarie maner whether it be to abrogate or alter the ancient doctrine of his Church as our Sauiour and his Apostles were furnished And I grant that if Luthers calling were answered by vs to be meerely extraordinarie or if he had preached against the Catholicke Church or ancient doctrine continued in all ages the Iesuite had made a good passage against vs but he did none of these things His calling was not extraordinary in that kind which reuealeth new doctrine not knowne before as Christs and the Apostles was onely the externall gouernment of the Church being corrupted and oppressed by the Papacie declining from the ancient integritie that was in the beginning he vsed that calling which he had and extraordinarily bent it to the preaching of reformation I say extraordinarily first because it was not so visibly done in those ages Next the corruptions against which he dealt were ordinarily embraced in the outward practise of the world Thirdly he vsed his calling giuen him in the Papacie to another end then they meant that gaue it him Lastly considering those times his eyes in an extraordinarie measure and maner were opened to discerne the truth and God enabled him with extraordinarie gifts In all other things which are properly extraordinarie he differed from the Apostles For neither did he reueale new doctrine nor want all vocation of men nor was taught immediatly by reuelation In which case he needed no miracles but it was sufficient for him to proue his doctrine by the Scriptures 3 Whereupon the people were bound to credite him as farre as he taught according to the Scriptures for they are a token sufficient And though our Sauiour required no man to beleeue him but vpon the euidence of his workes yet that was because his place was meerely extraordinarie which Luthers was not whom our Pastors succeeding they haue the same libertie to proue their calling by the doctrine they teach and not by miracle The ordinarie course set downe by Christ was not that which the Papacie practised but the same for substance wherein Luther came the practise of the Papacie being a corruption that incroched vpon that course against which if Luther preached he taught nothing contrarie to the ordinary doctrine of the true Church but contrarie to the Papacie that oppressed the Church Which Papacie if it could be proued to be the true Church then according to S. Paule Gal. 1 Let him be accursed that speaketh against it and as S. Iohn speaketh Epist 2 Let no man salute such a preacher or giue credit to him 4 Let our aduersaries therefore take notice of their errors in this point and diligently marke where they lye First they assume their Papacie to be the ancient Church and the doctrine thereof to be the faith holden taught and alway deliuered in the same which is false confuted Then they assume againe that all mē preaching against this their Papacie preach against the Church and so consequently are not to be credited vnlesse they haue the gift of miracles Thirdly they inferre vpon this that therefore all our Pastors are vnlawfull The which conclusion standing vpon so weake grounds can be of no more credit then the grounds are whereupon it standeth all which I haue shewed to be false in their owne places where they were to be handled Let them proue theirs to be the Church and shew that what Luther taught against them he taught against the Church and then it will be true that no man should preferre his teaching before them and not before Beside we make not our Pastors the rule of our faith but ground our selues them on the Scripture which is the rule § 60. And surely me thinkes though there were none of these euident proofes which I haue brought out of Scripture yet euen reason it selfe would teach that we ought to giue more credit to the vniuersall company of Catholickes which haue bene in all times and are spread ouer the Christian world in all places then to any one priuate man or some few his fellowes It is a prouerbe common among all men Vex populi est vox Dei that which all men say must needes be true And contrariwise to a particular man or his priuate company that will oppose themselues against this generall voice of all men like Ismael of whom it is said Manus eius contra omnes manus omnium contra eum Gen. 16. it may well be obiected which Luther confesseth was obiected to himselfe by his owne conscience or rather principally by the mercy and grace of God almighty seeking to reclaime him while