Reformation or a free Councell And the * Leo 10. Bull. Inn. 8. 1520. Pope himselfe to shew his Charity had declared and pronounced the Appellants Hereticks before they were Condemned by the Councell I hope an Assembly of Enemies are no Lawfull Councell and I thinke the Decrees of such a one are omni jure nulla and carry their Nullity with them through all Law Againe is that Councell Generall that hath none of the Easterne Churches Consent nor presence there Are all the Greekes so become Non Ecclesia no Church that they have no Interest in Generall Councels Iâ—… numbers indeed among the Subscribers sixe Greekes They might be so by Nation or by Title purposely given them but dare you say they were actually Bishops of and sent from the Greeke Church to the Councell Or is it to be accounted a Generall Councell that in many Sessions had scarce Ten Archbishops or Forty or Fifty Bishops present And for the West of Christendome nearer home it reckons one English S. Assaph But Cardinall Poole was there too And Fnglish indeed he was by birth but not sent to that Councell by the King and Church of England but as one of the †Concil Trid. Sess. 5. Popes Legates And so we finde him in the fift Session of that Councell but neither before nor after And at the beginning of the Councell he was not Bishop in the Church of England and after he was Archbishop of Canterburie he never went over to the Councell And can you prove that S. Assaph went thither by Authority There were but few of other Nations and it may be some of them reckoned with no more truth then the Greekes In all the Sessions under Paul the third but two French-men and sometimes none as in the sixt under Iulius the third when Henr. 2. of France protested against that Councell And in the end it is well known how all the French which were then a good part held off till the Cardinall of Loraigne was got to Rome As for the Spaniards they laboured for many things upon good Grounds and were most unworthily over-borne To all this A. C. hath nothing to say but That it is not Necessary to the Lawfulnesse and Generalnesse of a A. C. p. 61. Councell that all Bishops of the World should be actually present subscribe or consent but that such Promulgation be made as is morally sufficient to give notice that such a Councell is called and that all may come if they will and that a Major part at least of those that are present give assent to the Decrees I will forget that it was but p. 59. in which A. C. p. 59. A. C. speakes of all Pastours and those not onely summoned but gathered together And I will easily grant him that 't is not necessary that all Bishops in the Christian world be present and subscribe But sure 't is necessary to the Generalnesse of a Councell that some be †Ut aliqui mittantur advcniant conveniant c. Bellar L. 1. de Concil c. 17. §. Quarta ut saltem there and authorized for all Particular Churches And to the freedome of a Councell that all that come may come safe And to the Lawfulnesse of a Councell that all may come uningaged and not fastened to a fide before they sit downe to argue or deliberate Nor is such a Promulgation as A. C. mentions sufficient but onely in Case of Contumacy and that where they which are called and refuse to come have no just Cause for their not comming as too many had in the Case of Trent And were such a Promulgation sufficient for the Generalnesse of a Councell yet for the Freedome and the Lawfulnesse of it it were not F. So said I would Arrians say of the Councell of Nice The B. would not admit the Case to be like B. So indeed you said And not you alone It is § 28 the Common Objection made against all that admit not every latter Councell as fully as that Councell of Nice famous through all the Christian world In the meane time nor you nor they consider that the Case is not alike as I then told you If the Case be alike in all why doe not you admit that which was held at Ariminum and the second of Ephesus as well as Nice If you say as yours doe It was because the Pope approved them not That 's a true Cause but not Adequate or full For it was because the Whole Church refused them * §. 26. N. 1. with whom the Romane Prelate standing then entire in the Faith agreed and so for his Patriarchate refused those Councels But suppose it 〈◊〉 that these Syâ—…s were not admitted because the Pope refused them yet this ground is gamed That the Câ—…e is not alike for mens Assent to all Councells And if you looke to have this granted That the Pope must coâ—…me or the Councel's not lawfull we have farre more reason to looke that this be not denied Thâ—…t Scripture must not be departed from in a Here A. C. tels us that the 〈◊〉 thought so of the 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Namely that they departed from 〈◊〉 and Sense of Scripture They said to â—…deed But the Testimony of the whole Clutch both then and sinâ—… went wâ—… the Councell against the Arrian So is it not â—…ere against the Protestant â—…or I râ—…t For they offer to be tâ—…ed by that very Councell of Nice and all the 〈◊〉 Councells and Fathers of the Châ—… within the first foure hundred yeares and somewhat farther letter or necessary sense or the Councell is not lawfull For the Consent and Confirmation of Scripture is of farre greater Authority to make the Councell Authenticall and the Decisions of it de fide then any Confirmation of the Pope can bee Now of these two the Councell of Nâ—…e we are sure had the first the 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 and you say it had the second the 〈◊〉 Confirmation The Councell of Trent we are able to prove had not the first and so we have no reason to respect the second And to what end do your Learâ—… Men maintaine that a Councell may make a Conclusion de sâ—…e though it be simply b So Staplâ—… often but the Fathers quite otherwise 〈◊〉 extra Evangeliâ—…m sâ—…nt 〈◊〉 sâ—…am Hâ—… L. 2. 〈◊〉 Câ—… extra out of aâ—…l â—…nd oâ—… Scrâ—…ure but out of a Iealousie at least that this of Trent and some others have in their Determinâ—…s left both â—…ter and Sense of Scripture Shew this against the Councell of Nice and I will grant so much of the Case to be like But what will you say if c 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 L. 2. 〈◊〉 Syâ—… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Niâ—…linum Constâ—… required That 〈◊〉 thus brought into Question 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 by Testimony out of Scripture And the 〈◊〉 of the 〈◊〉 Councell never refused that â—…e And what will you say if they professe they depart not from it 〈◊〉
their own and are with all submission to be observed by every Christian where Scripture or evident Demonstration come not against them Nor doth it make way for the Whirlewind of a private Spirit For Private Spirits are too giddy to rest upon Scripture and too heady and shallow to be acquainted with Demonstrative Arguments And it were happy for the Church if she might never be troubled with Private Spirits till they brought such Arguments I know this is hotly objected against c Praefat. p. 29. Hooker the d Dialogus â—…ctus Deus Rex Authour cals him a e Cordatus Protestans Wise Protestant yet turnes thus upon him If a Councell must yeeld to a Demonstrative Proofe Who shall Iudge whether the Argument that is brought be a Demonstration or not For every man that will kicke against the Church will say the Scripture he urges is evident and his Reason a Demonstration And what is this but to leave all to the wildenesse of a Private Spirit Can any ingenuous man read this Passage in Hooker and dreame of a Private Spirit For to the Question Who shall judge Hooker answers as if it had beene then made f Praef. p. 29. And therefore A. C. is much to blame after all this to talk of a pretext of seeming evident Scripture or Demonstration As he doth p 59. An Argument necessary and Demonstrative is such saith he as being proposed to any man and understood the minde cannot chuse but inwardly assent unto it So it is not enough to thinke or say it is Demonstrative The Light then of a Demonstrative Argument is the Evidence which it selfe hath in it selfe to all that understand it Well but because all understand it not If a Quarrell be made Who shall decide it No Question a § 32. Nu. 2. but a Generall Councell not a Private Spirit first in the intent of the Authour for Hooker in all that Discourse makes the Sentence of the Councell b Praesat p. 28. binding and therefore that is made Judge not a Private Spirit And then for the Judge of the Argument it is as plaine For if it be evident to any man then to so many Learned men as are in a Councell doubtlesse And if they cannot but assent it is hard to thinke them so impious that they will define against it And if that which is thought evident to any man be not evident to such a grave Assembly it is probable 't is no Demonstration and the producers of it ought to rest and not to trouble the Church Nor is this Hooker's alone nor is it newly thought on by us It is a Ground in Nature which Grace doth ever set right never undermine And c 2 de Bapt cont Don. cap. 4. S. Augustine hath it twice in one Chapter That S. Cyprian and that Councell at Carthage would have presently yeelded to any one that would d Uni verum dicenti demonstr anti demonstrate Truth Nay it is a Rule with e Cont. Fund cap. 4. him Consent of Nations Authority confirmed by Miracles and Antiquity S. Peters Chaire and Succession from it Motives to keepe him in the Catholike Church must not hold him against Demonstration of Truth f Quae quidem si tam manifesta monâ—…ratur ut in dubtum â—…enire non possit praeponenâ—…a est omâ—…ibus ills rebus quiius in Catholica 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 aciquid apertissimâ—… in Euangelâ—… 〈◊〉 c. 4. which if it bee so clearely demonstrated that it cannot come into doubt it is to be preferred before all those things by which a man is held in the Catholike Church Therefore an evident Scripture or Demonstration of Truth must take place every where but where these cannot be had there must be Submission to Authority And doth not Bellarmine himselfe grant this For speaking of Councels he delivers this Proposition That Inferiours may not judge whether their Superiours and that in a Councell do proceed lawfully or not But then having bethought himselfe that Inferiours at all times and in all Causes are not to be cast off he adds this Exception a L. 2 de Concil c. 8. §. Alii dicunt Cencilium Nisi manifestissimè constet intolerabilem Errorem committi Unlesse it manifestly appeare that an intolerable Errour be committed So then if such an Errour be and be manifest Inferiours may do their duty and a Councell must yeeld unlesse you will accuse Bellarmine too of leaning to a Private Spirit for neither doth he expresse who shall judge whether the Errour be intolerable This will not downe with you but the Definition of a Generall Councell is and must be infallible Your Fellowes tell us and you can affirme no more That the Voice of the Church determining in Councell is not b Stapl. Relect. Cont. 4. Q. 3. Ar. 1. Humane but Divine That is well Divine then sure Infallible yea but the Proposition stickes in the throat of them that would utter it It is not Divine simply but in a c Divina suo modo Ibid. And so A. C. too who hath opened his mouth very wide to proove the Succession of Pastors in the Church to be of Divine and infallible Authority yet in the close is forced to add At least in some sort p. 51. manner Divine Why but then sure not infallible because it may speak lowdest in that manner in which it is not Divine Nay more The Church forsooth is an infallible Foundation of Faith d In altiori genere viz. in geners causae efficientis atque adeò aliquâ exparte formalis Ibid. Q. 4. Ar. 3. in an higher kinde then the Scripture For the Scripture is but a Foundation in Testimony and Matter to be believed but the Church as the efficient cause of Faith and in some sort the very formall Is not this Blasphemie Doth not this knock against all evidence of Truth and his owne Grounds that sayes it Against all evidence of Truth For in all Ages all men that once admitted the Scripture to be the Word of God as all Christians doe doe with the same breath grant it most undoubted and infallible But all men have not so judged of the Churches Definitions though they have in greatest Obedience submitted to them And against his owne Grounds that sayes it For the Scripture is absolutely and every way Divine the Churches Definition is but suo modo in a sort or manner Divine But that which is but in a sort can never be a Foundation in an Higher Degree then that which is absolute and every way such Therefore neither can the Definition of the Church be so infallible as the Scripture much lesse in altiori genere in a higher kinde then the Scripture But because when all other things faile you flie to this That the Churches Definition in a Generall Councell is by Inspiration and so Divine and infallible My haste shall not carrie mee from a little Consideration of that too Sixtly then If the
which a greater hath not And last of all whereas A. C. addes that confessedly Punct 6. A. C. p. 66. there is no such Perill That 's a most lowd untruth and an Ingenuous man would never have said it For in the same * §. 35. N. 12. place where I grant a possibility of Salvation in the Romane Church I presently adde that it is no secure way in regard of Romane Corruptions And A. C. cannot plead for himself that he either knew not this or that he overlook'd it for himselfe disputes against it as strongly as he can What modesty or Truth call you this For he that confesses a possibility of Salvation doth not therby confesse no perill of Damnation in the same way Yea but if some Protestants should say there is perill of Damnation to live and dye in the Romane Faith their saying is nothing in comparison of the number or worth of those that say there is none So A. C. againe And beside A. C. p. 66. they which say it are contradicted by their owne more Learned Brethren Here A. C. speakes very confusedly But whether he speake of Protestants or Romanists or mixes both the matter is not great For as for the Number and Worth of men they are no necessary Concluders for Truth Not Number for who would be judged by the Many The time was when the †Ingemuit totus Orbis Arrianum se esse miratus est S. Hier. advers Luciferian post medium Tâ—… 2. Arrianorum Uenenum non jam portiun culam quandam sed penè Orbem totum contaminaverat adeo ut propè cunctis Latini Sermonis Episcopis partim vi partim fraude deceptis caligo quaedam mentibus offunderetur c. Vin. Lir. cont Haeres c. 6. Ecclesia non Parietibus consistit sed in Dogmatum veritate Ecclesia ibi est ubi fides vera est Caterùm ante annos quindecim aut viginti Parietes omnes hic Ecclesiarum Haeretici de Atrianis aliis Haereticis loquitur possidebant c. Ecclesia autem illic erat ubi sides vera erat S. Hier. in Psal. 133. Constantius Tantane Orbis terrae pars Liberi in te residet ut tu solus homini Impio de Athanasio loquitur subsidio venire pacem Orbis ac Mundi totius dirimere audeas Liberius Esto quod ego solus sim non tamen propterea Causa fidei fit inferior nam olim tres solum erant reperti qui Rggis mandato resisterent c. Theod. L. 2. Hist. Eccles. c. 16. Dialogo inter Constant. Imp. Liberium Papam So that Pope did not think Multitude any great note of the true Church Vbi sunt c. qui Ecclesiam multitudiné definiunt parvum gregem aspernantur c. Greg. Naz. Orat 25. prin Nay the Arrians were growne to that boldnesse that they Objected to the Catholicks of that time Paucitatem the thinnesse of their number Greg. Naz. Carm. de vita sua p. 24. Edit Paris 1611. Quum ejecti tamen essent de Civitatibus jactabant in desertis suis Synagogis illud Multi vocati pauci electi Socr. L. 1. Hist. Eccl. c. 10. Arrians were too many for the Orthodox Not Worth simply for that once * Error Origenis Tertulliani magna fuit in Ecclesià Dei Populi tentatio Vin Lir. cont Har. c. 23 24. misled is of all other the greatest misleader And yet God forbid that to Worth weaker men should not yeeld in difficult and Perplexed Questions yet so as that when Matters Fundamentall in the Faith come in Question they finally rest upon an higher and clearer certainty then can be found in either Number or VVeight of men Besides if you meane your own Partie you have not yet prooved your Partie more worthy for Life or Learning then the Protestants Proove that first and then it will be time to tell you how worthy many of your Popes have beene for either Life or Learning As for the rest you may blush to say it For all Protestants unanimously agree in this That there is great perill of Damnation for any man to live and dye in the Romane perswasion And you are not able to produce any one Protestant that ever said the contrary And therefore that is a most notorious slander where you say that they which affirme this perill of Damnation are contradicted by their owne more A. C. p. 66. Learned Brethren And thus having cleared the way against the Exceptions of A. C. to the two former Instances I will now proceed as I †§. 35. N. 4. promised to make this farther appeare that A. C. and his fellowes dare not stand to that ground which is here laid downe Namely That in Poynt of Faith and Salvation it is safest for a man to take that way which the Adversary Confesses to be true or whereon the differing Parties agree And that if they doe stand to it they must be forced to maintaine the Church of England in many things against the Church of Rome And first I Instance in the Article of our Saviour Christs Descent into Hell I hope the Church of Rome believes Punct 1. this Article and withall that Hell is the place of the Damned so doth the Church of England In this then these distenting Churches agree Therefore according to the former Rule yea and here in Truth too 't is safest for a man to believe this Article of the Creed as both agree That is that Christ descended in Soule into the Place of the Damned But this the Romanists will not endure at any hand For the †Sequuntur enim Thom p. 3. q. 52 Ar. 2. c. Verba ejus sunt Anima Christi per suam essentiam descendit soluÌ„ ad locum Inferni in quo justi detinebantur c. Schoole agree in it That the Soule of Christ in the time of his death went really no farther then in Limbum Patrum which is not the place of the Damned but a Region or Quarter in the upper part of Hell as they call it built up there by the Romanist without Licence of either Scripture or the Primitive Church And a man would wonder how those Builders with untempered mortar found light enough in that darke Place to build as they have done Ezec. 13. 10. Secondly I 'le instance in the Institution of the Sacrament in both kinds That Christ Instituted it so is confessed Punct 2. by both Churches that the Ancient Churches received it so is agreed by both Churches Therefore according to the former Rule and here in Truth too 't is safest for a man to receive this Sacrament in both kindes And yet here this Ground of A. C. must not stand for good no not at Rome but to receive in one kinde is enough for the Laity And the poore * Basiliense Concilium concessit Bohemis utriusque speciâ—…i usum modò faterentur id sibi concedi ab Ecclesiâ non autem
in another and another and so in all of like nature I say in all of like nature And A. C. may remember he expressed himselfe a little before to A. C. p. 71. speake of the Defining of such Divine Truths as are not absolutely necessary to be expresly knowne and actually believed of all sorts of men Now there is there can be no necessity of an Infallible certainty in the whole Catholike Church and much lesse in a Generall Councell of things not * §. 21. N. 5. absolutely necessary in themselves For Christ did not intend to leave an Infallible certainty in his Church to satisfie either Contentious or Curious or Presumptuous Spirits And therefore in things not Fundamentall not Necessary 't is no matter if Councels erre in one and another and a third the whole Church having power and meanes enough to see that no Councell erre in Necessary things and this is certainty enough for the Church to have or for Christians to expect especially since the Foundation is so strongly and so plainely laid downe in Scripture and the Creed that a modest man might justly wonder why any man should run to any later Councell at least for any Infallible certainty Yet A. C. hath more Questions to aske and his next is How we can according to the ordinary Course be A. C. p. 72. Infallibly assured that it erres in one and not in another when it equally by one and the same Authority defines both to be Divine Truth A. C. taking here upon him to defend M. Fisher the Jesuite could not but see what I had formerly written concerning this difficult Question about Generall Councels And to all that being large he replied little or nothing Now when he thinks that may be forgotten or as if it did not at all lie in his way he here turnes Questionist to disturbe that businesse and indeed the Church as much as he can But to this Question also I answer againe If any Generall-Councell doe now erre either it erres in things absolutely necessary to Salvation or in things not necessary If it erre in things Necessary we can be infallibly assured by the Scripture the Creeds the foure first Councels and the whole Church where it erres in one and not in another If it be in non necessariis in things not necessary 't is not requisite that we should have for them an infallible assurance As for that which followes it is notoriously both cunning and false 'T is false to suppose that a Generall Councell defining two things for Divine Truths and erring in one but not erring in another doth define both equally by one and the same Authority And 't is cunning because these words by the same Authority are equivocall and must be distinguished that the Truth which A. C. would hide may appeare Thus then suppose a Generall Councell erring in one point and not in another it doth define both and equally by the same delegated Authority which that Councell hath received from the Catholike Church But it doth not define both and much lesse equally by the same Authority of the Scripture which must be the Councels Rule as well as private mens no nor by the same Authority of the whole Catholike Church who did not intentionally give them equall power to define Truth and errour for Truth And I hope A C. dares not say the Scripture according to which all Councels that will uphold Divine Truth must Determine doth equally give either ground or power to define Errour and Truth To his former Questions A. C. adds That if we leave this to be examined by any private man this examination not being Infallible had need to be examined by another A. C p. 72. and this by another without end or ever comming to Infallible certainty necessarily required in that one faith which is necessary to salvation and to that peace and unity which ought to be in the Church Will this inculcating the same thing never be left I told the lesuite a §. 32. N. 5. §. 33. Consid. 7. Nu. 4. before that I give no way to any private man to be Iudge of a Generall Councell And there also I shewed the way how an erring Councell might be rectified and the peace of the Church either preserved or restored without lifting any private spirit above a Councell and without this processe in Infinitum which A. C. so much urges and which is so much declined in all b Arist. 1. Post Tex 6 4. Metaph T. 14. Sciences For as the understanding of a man must alwaies have somewhat to rest upon so must his Faith But a c §. 38 Nu. 〈◊〉 private man first for his owne satisfaction and after for the Churches if he have just cause may consider of and examine by the a Hic non loquimur de Decisione seu Determinatione Doctrinali quae ad unumquemque virum peritum spectare dignoscitur sed de Authoritativâ Iudiciali c la. Almain L. de Author Eccl. c. 10. princ Iudgement of discretion though not of power even the Definitions of a Generall Councell But A. C. concludes well That an Infallible certainty is necessary for that one Faith which is necessary to salvation And of that as I expressed b §. 38. Num. 1. before a most infallible certainty we have already in the Scripture the Creeds and the foure first Generall Councels to which for things Necessary and Fundamentall in the Faith we need no assistance from other Generall Councels And some of your c Sunt qui nescio quà ducti ratione sentiunt non esse opus Generali Concilio De Constantiensi loquitur dicentes omnia bene à Patribus nostris Ordinata ac Constituta modò ab omnibus legitimè fideliter servarentur Fatemur equidem id ipsum esse verissimum Tamen cùm nihil fere servetur c. Pet. de Aliaco L. de reformat Eccles. fine So that after-Councels are rather to Decree for Observance then to make any new Determinations of the Faith owne very honest and very Learned were of the same Opinion with me And for the peace and unity of the Church in things absolutely necessary we have the same infallible direction that wee have for Faith But in Things not necessary though they be Divine Truths also if about them Christian men doe differ 't is no more then they have done more or lesse in all Ages of the Church and they may differ and yet preserve the d Non omnis Error in his qua fidei sunt est aut Infidelitas aut Haeresis Holkot in 1. Sent. q. 1. ad 4. K. One necessary Faith and e Scimus quosdam quod semel imbiberint nolle deponere nec proposstum suum facilè mutare sed salvo inter Collegas pacis concordiae vinculo quaedam propria quae apud se semel sint usurpata retinere Quâ in re nec nos vim cuiquam facimus aut legem
no where so steddily placed in this world but it will be in some danger And men that care neither for the Hive nor the Bees have yet a great minde to the Honey And having once tasted the sweet of the Churches Maintenance swallow that for Honey which one day will be more bitter then Gall in their Bowells Now the King and the Priest more then any other are bound to looke to the Integrity of the Church in Doctrine and Manners and that in the first place For that 's by farre the Best Honey in the Hive But in the second place They must be Carefull of the Churches Maintenance too els the Bees shall make Honey for others and have none left for their owne necessary sustenance and then all 's lost For we see it in daily and common use that the Honey is not taken from the Bees but they are destroyed first Now in this great and Busie Worke the King and the Priest must not feare to put their hands to the Hive though they be sure to be stung And stung by the Bees whose Hive and House they preserve It was King Davids Case God grant it be never Yours They came about mee saith the Psal. 118. 12. Psal. 118. * Apum Similitudine ardorem not at vesanum Non est enim in illis multum roboris sed mira Excandescentia Calv in Psal. 118. like Bees This was hard usage enough yet some profit some Honey might thus be gotten in the End And that 's the Kings Case But when it comes to the Priest the Case is alter'd They come about him like VVaspes or like Hornets rather all sting and no Honey there And all this many times for no offence nay sometimes for Service done them would they see it But you know who said Behold I come shortly and my reward is with mee to give to every man according as his VVorkes shall bee Revel 22. And he himselfe is so Revel 22. 12. * Gen 〈◊〉 exceeding great a Reward as that the manifold stings which are in the World howsoever they smart here are nothing when they are pressed out with that exceeding weight of Glory which shall be revealed Rom. 8. Rom. 8. 18. Now one Thing more let me be bold to Observe to Your Majesty in particular concerning Your Great Charge the Church of England 'T is in an hard Condition Shee professes the Ancient Catholike Faith And yet the Romanist condemnes Her of Novelty in her Doctrine Shee practises Church Government as it hath beene in use in all Ages and all Places where the Church of Christ hath taken any Rooting both in and ever since the Apostles Times And yet the Separatist condemnes Her for Antichristianisme in her Discipline The plaine truth is She is between these two Factions as betweene two Milstones and unlesse Your Majesty looke to it to VVhose Trust She is committed Shee 'll be grownd to powder to an irrepairable both Dishonour and losse to this Kingdome And 't is very Remarkeable that while both these presse hard upon the Church of England both of them Crye out upon Persecution like froward Children which scratch and kicke and bite and yet crye out all the while as if themselves were killed Now to the Romanist I shall say this The Errors of the Church of Rome are growne now many of them very Old And when Errors are growne by Age and Continuance to strength they which speake for the Truth though it be farre Older are ordinarily challenged for the Bringers in of New Opinions And there is no Greater Absurdity stirring this day in Christendome then that the Reformation of an Old Corrupted Church will we nill wee must be taken for the Building of a New And were not this so we should never be troubled with that idle and impertinent Question of theirs VVhere was your Church before Luther For it was just there where their's is now * There is no other difference betweene Vs Rome then betwixt a Church miserably Corrupted and happily purged c. Ios. Hall B. of Exon. In his Apologeticall Advertisement to the Reader p. 192. Approved by Tho. Morton B. then of Cov. Lich. now of 〈◊〉 in the Letters printed by the B. of Exeter in his Treatise called The Reconciler p. 68 And D. Field in his Appen to the third part c. 2. where he cites Calv. to the same purpose L. 4. Inst. c. 2. §. 11. One and the same Church still no doubt of that One in Substance but not one in Condition of state and purity Their part of the same Church remaining in Corruption and Our part of the same Church under Reformation The same Naaman and he a Syrian still but Leprous with them and Cleansed with us The same man still And for the Seperatist and him that layes his Grounds for Separation or Change of Discipline though all hee sayes or can say be in Truth of Divinity and among Learned Men little better then ridiculous yet since these fond Opinions have gain'd some ground among your people to such among them as are wilfully set to follow their blinde Guides thorough thicke and thin till * S. Matth. 15. 14 they fall into the Ditch together I shall say nothing But for so many of them as meane well and are onely misled by Artifice and Cunning Concerning them I shall say thus much only They are Bells of passing good mettle and tuneable enough of themselves and in their owne disposition and a world of pity it is that they are Rung so miserably out of Tune as they are by them which have gotten power in and over their Consciences And for this there is yet Remedy enough but how long there will bee I know not Much talking there is Bragging Your Majesty may call it on both sides And when they are in their ruffe they both exceed all Moderation and Truth too So farre till both Lips and Penns open for all the World like a Purse without money Nothing comes out of this and that which is worth nothing out of them And yet this nothing is made so great as if the Salvation of Soules that Great worke of the Redeemer of the World the Sonne of God could not be effected without it And while the one faction cryes up the Church above the Scripture and the other the Scripture to the neglect and Contempt of the Church which the Scripture it selfe teaches men both to honour and obey They have so farre endangered the Beliefe of the One and the Authority of the Other as that neither hath its Due from a great part of Men. Whereas according to Christs Institution The Scripture where 't is plaine should guide the Church And the Church where there 's Doubt or Difficulty should expound the Scripture Yet so as neither the Scripture should be forced nor the Church so bound up as that upon Just and farther Evidence Shee may not revise that which in any Case hath slipt by Her
hope this is no part of your meaning Yet I doubt this b Qui conantur sidem destruere sub specie Questionis difficilis aut fortè indissolubilis c. Orig. Q. 35. in S. Matth. Question How doe you know Scripture to be Scripture hath done more harme than you will be ever able to helpe by Tradition But I must follow that way which you draw me And because it is so much insisted upon by you and is in it self a c To know that Scriptures are Divine and infallible in every part is a Foundation so necessary as if it bee doubtfully question'd all the Faith built upon Scripture fals to the ground A. C. p. 47. Necesse est nôsse extare Libros aliquos vere Divinos Bellarm. L. 4. de verb. Dei non scripto c. 4. §. Quarto necesse Et etiam libros qui sunt in manibus esse illos Ibid. §. Sexto oportet matter of such Consequence I will sift it a little farther Many men labouring to settle this great Principle in Divinity have used diverse meanes to prove it All have not gone the same way nor all the right way You cannot be right that resolve Faith of the Scriptures being the Word of God into onely Tradition For onely and no other proofe are equall To prove the Scripture therefore so called by way of Excellence to be the Word of God there are severall Offers at diverse proofes For first some flie to the Testimony and witnesse of the Church and 1. her Tradition which constantly believes and unanimously delivers it Secondly some to the Light 2. and the Testimony which the Scripture gives to it selfe with other internall proofes which are observed in it and to be found in no other Writing whatsoever Thirdly some to the Testimony of the Holy 3. Ghost which cleares up the light that is in Scripture and seales this Faith to the soules of men that it is Gods Word Fourthly all that have not imbrutished 4. themselves and sunke below their species and order of Nature give even Naturall Reason leave to come in and make some proofe and give some approbation upon the weighing and the consideration of other Arguments And this must be admitted if it be but for Pagans and Infidels who either consider not or value not any one of the other three yet must some way or other bee converted or left without excuse Rom. 1. and that is Rom. 1. 20. done by this very evidence 1. For the first The Tradition of the Church which is your way That taken and considered alone it is so farre from being the onely that it cannot be a sufficient Proofe to believe by Divine Faith that Scripture is the Word of God For that which is a full and sufficient proofe is able of it selfe to settle the soule of man concerning it Now the Tradition of the Church is not able to doe this For it may bee further asked why wee should believe the Churches Tradition And if it be answered we may believe Because the Church is infallibly governed by the Holy Ghost it may yet be demanded of you How that may appeare And if this be demanded either you must say you have it by speciall Revelation which is the private Spirit you object to other men or else you must attempt to prove it by Scripture a Esse aliquas veras Traditiones demonstratur ex Scripturis Bellar L. 4 de verbo Dei non Scripto c. 5. and A. C p. 50. proves Tradition out of 2 Thes. 2. as all of you doe And that very offer to prove it out of Scripture is a sufficient acknowledgement that the Scripture is a higher Proofe then the Churches Tradition w ch in your own Grounds is or may be Questionable till you come thither Besides this is an Inviolable ground of Reason * Arist. 1. Post. c. 2. T. 16. Per Pacium Quocirca si 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 propter prima scimus credimus illa quoque scimus credimus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 magis quia per illa scimus credimus etiam posteriora That the Principles of any Conclusion must be of more credite then the conclusion it self Therefore if the Articles of Faith The Trinity the Resurrection and the rest be the Conclusions and the Principles by which they are prooved be only Ecclesiasticall Tradition it must needs follow That the Tradition of the Church is more infallible then the Articles of the Faith if the Faith which we have of the Articles should be finally Resolved into the Veracity of the Churches Testimony But this †Eorum errorem dissimulare non possum qui asserunt fidern Nostram cò tanquà m in ultimam credendi causam reducendam esse Vt Credamus Ecclesiam esse Veracem c. M. Canus L. 2. de Locis c. 8. §. Cui tertium your Learned and wary men deny And therefore I hope your selfe dare not affirme Againe if the Voyce of the Church saying the Bookes of Scripture commonly received are the Word of God be the formall Object of Faith upon which alone absolutely I may resolve my selfe then every man not only may but ought to resolve his Faith into the Voyce or Tradition of the Church for every man is bound to rest upon the proper and formall Object of the Faith But nothing can bee more evident then this That a man ought not to resolve his Faith of this Principle into the sole Testimony of the Church Therefore neither is that Testimony or Tradition alone the formall Object of Faith * Uox Ecclesiae non est formale Obiectum Fidei Stapl. Relect. Cont 4. q. 3. A. 2. Licet in Articulo Fidei Credo Ecclesiam fortè contineatur hoc totum Credo ea quae docet Ecclesia tamen non intelligitur necessariò quod Credo docenti Ecclesiae tanquam Testi insallibili ibid. Vbi etiam rejicit Opinionem Durandi Gabr. Et Waldens L. 2 Doctr. Fidei Art 2. c. 21. Num. 4. Testimonium Ecclesiae Catholicae est Objectum Fidei Christianae Legislatio Scripturae Canonica subjicitur tamen ipsi sicut Testis Iudici Testimonium Veritati c. Canus Loc. Lib. 2. cap. 8. Nec si Ecclesia aditum nobis prabet ad hujusmodi Libros Sacros cognoscendos protinus ibi acquiescendum est sed ultrà â—…portet progredi Solidà Dei veritate niti c. The Learned of your owne part grant this †Although in that Article of the Creed I believe the Catholike Church peradventure all this be contained I believe those things which the Church teacheth yet this is not necessarily understood That I believe the Church teaching as an Infallible Witnesse And if they did not confesse this it were no hard thing to prove But here 's the cunning of this Devise All the Authority's of Fathers Councels nay of Scripture too b Omnis ergo Ecclesiastica Authoritas cùm sit ad
other And even in those Fundamentall Things in which the Whole Vniversall Church neither doth nor can Erre yet even there her Authority is not Divine because She delivers those supernatural Truths by Promise of Assistance yet tyed to Meanes And not by any speciall Immediate Revelation which is necessarily required to the very least Degree of Divine Authority And therefore our †Hook l. 3. §. 9 VVorthies do not only say but prove That all the Churches Constitutions are of the nature of Humane Law a Stapl. Relect. Con. 4. q. 3. A. 1. 2. And some among you not unworthy for their Learning prove it at large That all the Churches Testimony or voyce or Sentence call it what you will is but suo modo or aliquo modo not simply but in a manner Divine Yea and A. C. himselfe A. C. p. 51. after all his debate comes to that and no further That the Tradition of the Church is at least in some sort Divine and Infallible Now that which is Divine but in a sort or manner bee it the Churches manner is aliquo modo non Divina in a sort not Divine But this Great Principle of Faith the Ground and Proofe of whatsoever else is of Faith cannot stand firme upon a Proofe that is and is not in a manner and not in a manner Divine As it must if we have no other Anchor then the Externall Tradition of the Church to lodge it upon and hold it steddy in the midst of those waves which daily beate upon it Now here A. C. confesses expresly That to prove the Bookes of Scripture to bee Divine we must bee A. C. p. 49. warranted by that which is Infallible Hee confesses farther that there can be no sufficient Infallible Proofe of A. C. p. 50. this but Gods Word written or unwritten And he gives his Reason for it Because if the Proofe be meerely Humane and Fallible the Science or Faith which A. C. p. 51. is built upon it can be no better So then this is agreed on by mee yet leaving other men to travell by their owne way so bee they can come to make Scripture thereby Infallible That Scripture must bee knowne to bee Scripture by a sufficient Infallible Divine Proofe And that such Proofe can be nothing but the Word of God is agreed on also by me Yea and agreed on for me it shall be likewise that Gods Word may be written and unwritten For Cardinall †Verbum Dei non est tale nec habet ullam Authoritatem quia scriptum est in membranis sed quia à Deo profectum est Bellar. l. 4 de Verb. Dei 2 §. Ecclesiasticae Traditiones Bellarmine tells us truly that it is not the writing or printing that makes Scripture the Word of God but it is the Prime Vnerring Essentiall Truth God himselfe uttering and revealing it to his Church that makes it Verbum Dei the Word of God And this Word of God is uttered to men either immediately by God himselfe Father Sonne and Holy Ghost and so 't was to the Prophets and Apostles Or mediately either by Angels to whom God had spoken first and so the Law was given * Lex ordinata per Angelos in manu 〈◊〉 Gal. 3 19. Gal. 3. and so also the Message was delivered to the Blessed Virgin a S. Luk. 1. 0. S. Luke 1. or by the Prophets b The Holy Ghost c. which spake by the Prophets in Symb. Nicen. and Apostles and so the Scriptures were delivered to the Church But their being written gave them no Authority at all in regard of themselves VVritten or unwritten the VVord was the same But it was written that it might bee the better c Nam Psiudoprophetae etiam viventibus adâ—…c Apostolis multas fingebant corruptelas sub â—…oc praetextu titulo quasi ab Apostolis vivà veccessent traditae propter hanc ipsâ—…m causam Apostoli Doctrinam suam coeperunt Literis comprehendere Ecclesiis commendare Chem. Exam. Concil Trid. de Traditionibus sub octavo genere Tradit And so also Iansâ—…n Comment in S. Ioh 5. 47. Sicut enim firmius est quod mandatur Literis ita est culpabiliâ—…s majus non credere Scriptis quam non credere Verbis preserved and continued with the more integrity to the use of the Church and the more faithfully in our d Labilis est memoria ideo indigâ—…mus Scripturâ Dicendum quod verum est sed hoc non habet nisi ex inundantia peccatorum Hent a Gand. Sum. p. 1 Ar. 8. q. 4. sine Christus ipse de pectore morituro Testamentum transfert in tabulas diù duraturas Optat. L 5. Christus ipse non transtulit sed ex Optati sew entiâ Ejus Inspiratione si non Iussâ—… Apostoli transtulerunt Memories And you have been often enough told were truth and not the maintaining of a party the thing you seek for that if you will shew us any such unwritten word of God delivered by his Prophets and Apostles we will acknowledge it to be Divine and Infallible So written or unwritten that shall not stumble us But then A. C. must not tell us at least not thinke we shall swallow it into our Beliefe that every thing which he sayes is the unwritten VVord of God is so indeed I know Bellarmine hath written a whole Booke * Bellar. L. 4. De Verbo Dei non script De Verbo Dei non scripto of the Word of God not written in which he handles the Controversie concerning Traditions And the Cunning is to make his weaker Readers believe that all that which He and his are pleased to call Traditions are by and by no lesse to be received and honoured then the unwritten word of God ought to be Whereas 't is a thing of easie knowledge That the unwritten VVord of God and Tradition are not Convertible Termes that is are not all one For there are many Vnwritten VVords of God which were never delivered over to the Church for ought appeares And there are many Traditions affirmed at least to be such by the Church of Rome which were never warranted by any unwritten Word of God First That there are many unwritten words of God which were never delivered over to the Church is manifest For when or where were the words which Christ spake to his Apostles during the a Acts 1. 3. forty dayes of his Conversing with them after his Resurrection first delivered over to the Church or what were the unwritten Words He then spake If neither Heâ—… nor His Apostles or Evangelists have delivered them to the Church the Church ought not to deliver them to her Children Or if she doe b Annunciare aliquid Christianis Catholicis praeter id quod acceperunt nunquam licuit nusquam licet nunquam licebit Vincen. Lir. c. 14. Et praeâ—…ipit nihil aliu â—…innovari nisi quo 〈◊〉
others And Miracles are not sufficient alone to prove it unlesse both They and the Revelation too agree with the Rule of Scripture which is now an unalterable Rule by b Gal. 1. 8. man or Angell To all this A. C. sayes nothing save that I seeme not to admit of an infallible Impulsion of a private Spirit ex parte subjecti A. C. p. 52. without any infallible Reason and that sufficiently applied ex parte objecti which if I did admit would open a gap to all Enthusiasmes and dreames of fanaticall men Now for this yet I thank him For I do not onely seeme not to admit but I doe most clearely reject this phrensie in the words going before 4. The last way which gives c Utitur tamâ—… sacra Doctrina Ratione Humanâ non quidem ad probandum Fidem ipsam sed ad manifest andum aliqua alia quae traduntur in hac Doctrina Tho. p. 1. q. 1. A. 8. ad 2. Passibus rationis novus homo tendit in Deum S. Aug. de vera Relig. c. 26. Passibus veruÌ„ est sed nec aequis nec solis Nam Invisibilia Dei altiori modo quantum ad plura pâ—…rcipitg Fides quà m Ratio naturalis ex Creaturis in Deum procedens Tho. 2. 2. q. 2. A. 3. ad 3. Reason leave to come in and prove what it can may not justly be denied by any reasonable man For though Reason without Grace cannot see the way to Heaven nor believe this Booke in which God hath written the way yet Grace is never placed but in a reasonable creature and proves by the very seat which it hath taken up that the end it hath is to be spirituall eye-water to make Reason see what by †Animalis homo non percipit 1. Cor. 2. 14. Nature onely it cannot but never to blemish Reason in that which it can comprehend Now the use of Reason is very generall and man do what he can is still apt to search and seeke for a Reason why he will believe though after he once believes his Faith growes d Quia scientiae certitudinem habent ox naturali lumine Rationis humanae quae potest errare Theologia autem quae docet Objectum Notitiam Fidei sicut Fidem ipsam certitudinem habet ex lumine Divinae scientiae quae decipi non potest Tho. p. 1. q. 1. A. 5. c. Vt ipsà fide valentiores facti quod credimus intelligere mereamur S. Aug. cont Ep. Manichaei dictam Fundamentum c. 14. Hoc autem it a intelligendum est ut scientia certior sit Certitudine Evidentiae Fides verò certior Firmitate Adhaesionis Majus lumen in Scientia majus Robur in Fide Et hoc quia in Fide ad Fidem Actus imperatus Voluntatis concurrit Credere enim est Actus Intellectus Vero assentiontis productus ex Voluntatis Imperio Biel. in 3. Sent. d. 23. q. 2. A. 1. Unde Tho. Intellectus Credentis determinatur ad Unum non per Rationem sed per Voluntatem ideo Assensus hic accipitur pro Actu Intellectus secundum quod à Voluntate determinatur ad Vnum 2. 2. q. 2. A. 1. ad 3. stronger than either his Reason or his Knowledge and great reason for this because it goes higher and so upon a safer Principle than either of the other can in this life In this Particular the Bookes called the Scripture are commonly and constantly reputed to bee the Word of God and so infallible Verity to the least point of them Doth any man doubt this The world cannot keepe him from going to weigh it at the Ballance of Reason whether it bee the Word of God or not To the same Weights hee brings the Tradition of the Church the inward motives in Scripture it selfe all Testimonies within which seeme to beare witnesse to it and in all this there is no harme the danger is when a man will use no other Scale but Reason or preferre Reason before any other Scale For the Word of God and the Booke containing it refuse not to bee weighed by a Si vobis rationi veritati consentanca videntur in pretio habete c. de mysteriis Religionis Iustin. Mart. Apol. 2. Igitur si fuit dispositio Rationis c. Tertull. L de Carne Christi c. 18. Rationabile est credere Deum esse Autorem Scripturae Henr. a Gand. Sum To. 1. Ar. 9. q. 3. Reason But the Scale is not large enough to containe nor the Weights to measure out the true vertue and full force of either Reason then can give no supernaturall ground into which a man may resolve his Faith That Scripture is the Word of God infallibly yet Reason can go so high as it can prove that Christian Religion which rests upon the Authority of this Booke stands upon surer grounds of Nature Reason common Equity and Iustice than any thing in the World which any Infidell or meere Naturalist hath done doth or can adhere unto against it in that which he makes accounts or assumes as Religion to himselfe The Ancient Fathers relied upon the Scriptures no Christians more and having to doe with Philosophers men very well seene in all the subtilties which Naturall Reason could teach or learne They were often put to it and did as often make it good That they had sufficient warrant to relie so much as They did upon Scripture In all which Disputes because they were to deale with Infidels they did labour to make good the Authority of the Booke of God by such Arguments as unbelievers themselves could not but thinke reasonable if they weighed them with indifferency For though I set the Mysteries of Faith above Reason which is their proper place yet I would have no man thinke They contradict Reason or the Principles thereof No sure For Reason by her own light can discover how firmely the Principles of Religion are true but all the Light shee hath will never bee able to finde them false Nor may any man thinke that the Principles of Religion even this That Scriptures are the Word of God are so indifferent to a Naturall eye that it may with as just cause leane to one part of the Contradiction as to the other For though this Truth That Scripture is the Word of God is not so Demonstratively evident a priori as to enforce Assent yet it is strengthen'd so abundantly with probable Arguments both from the Light of Nature it selfe and Humane Testimony that he must be very wilfull and selfe-conceited that shall dare to suspect it Nay yet farther a Hook L. 3. §. 8. Si Plato ipse viveret me interrogantem non aspernaretur c. S. Aug. de verá Relig. c. 3. Vide amus quatenus Ratio potest progredi á visibilibus ad invisibilia c. Ibid. c. 29. It is not altogether impossible to proove it even by Reason a Truth infallible or else to make them deny some
Divine Authority into internall Arguments found in the Letter it selfe though found by the Helpe and Direction of Tradition without and Grace within And the resolution that is rightly grounded may not endure to pitch and restit selfe upon the Helpes but upon that Divine Light which the Scripture no Question hath in it selfe but is not kindled till these Helps come Thy word is a Light d Psal. 119. 105. Sanctarum Scripturarum Lumen S. Aug. L. de verâ Relig. c. 7. Quid Lucem Scripturarum vanis umbris c. S. Aug. L. de Mor. Eccl. Cathol c. 35. so David A Light Therefore it is as much manifestativum sui as alterius a manifestation to it selfe as to other things which it shewes but still not till the Candle be Lighted not till there hath beene a Preparing Instruction What Light it is Children call the Sunne and Moone Candles Gods Candles They see the light as well as men but cannot distinguish betweene them till some Tradition and Education hath informed their Reason And * 1 Cor. 2. 14. animalis homo the naturall man sees some Light of Morall counsell and instruction in Scripture as well as Believers But he takes all that glorious Lustre for Candle-light and cannot distinguish betweene the Sunne and twelve to the Pound till Tradition of the Church and Gods Grace put to it have cleared his understanding So Tradition of the present Church is the first Morall Motive to Beliefe But the Beliefe it selfe That the Scripture is the Word of God rests †Orig. 4. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. 1. went this way yet was he a great deale nearer the prime Tradition then we are For being to proove that the Scriptures were inspired from God he saith De hoc assignabimus ex ipsis Divinis Scripturis quae nos competenter movcrint c. upon the Scripture when a man findes it to answer and exceed all that which the Church gave in Testimony as will after appeare And as in the Voyce of the Primitive and Apostolicall Church there was a Principaliter tamen etiam hîc credimus propter Deum non Apoâ—…olos c. Henr. à Gand. Sum. A. 9. q. 3. Now if where the Apostles themselves spake ultimata resolutio Fidei was in Deum not in ipsos per se much more shall it be in Deum then in praesentem Ecclesiam and into the writings of the Apostles then into the words of their Successors made up into a Tradition simply Divine Authority delivering the Scripture as Gods Word so after Tradition of the present Church hath taught and informed the Soule the Voyce of God is plainly heard in Scripture it selfe And then here 's double Authority and both Divine that confirmes Scripture to be the Word of God Tradition of the Apostles delivering it And the internall worth and argument in the Scripture obvious to a soule prepared by the present Churches Tradition and Gods Grace The Difficulties which are pretended against this are not many and they will easily vanish For first you pretend we go to Private Revelations for Light to know Scripture No we do not you see it is excluded out of the very state of the Question and we go to the Tradition of the present Church and by it as well as you Here we differ we use the Tradition of the present Church as the first Motive not as the Last Resolution of our Faith We Resolve onely into d Calv. Instit. 1. c. 5. §. 2. Christiana Ecclesia Prophetarum scriptis Apostolorum praedicatione initio fundata fuit ubicunque reperietur ea Doctrina c. Prime Tradition Apostolicall and Scripture it selfe Secondly you pretend we do not nor cannot know the prime Apostolicall Tradition but by the Tradition of the present Church and that therefore if the Tradition of the present Church be not Gods unwritten Word and Divine we cannot yet know Scripture to be Scripture by a Divine Authority Well Suppose I could not know the prime Tradition to be Divine but by the present Church yet it doth not follow that therefore I cannot know Scripture to be the Word of God by a Divine Authority because Divine Tradition is not the sole and onely meanes to prove it For suppose I had not nor could have full assurance of Apostolicall Tradition Divine yet the morall perswasion reason and force of the present Church is ground enough to move any reasonable man that it is fit he should read the Scripture and esteeme very reverently and highly of it And this once done the Scripture hath then In and Home-Arguments enough to put a Soule that hath but ordinary Grace out of Doubt That Scripture is the Word of God Infallible and Divine Thirdly you pretend that we make the Scripture absolutely and fully to be knowne Lumine suo by the Light and Testimony which it hath in and gives to it selfe Against this you give reason for your selves and proofe from us Your Reason is If there be sufficient Light in Scripture to shew it selfe then every man that can and doth but read it may know it presently to be the Divine Word of God which we see by daily experience men neither do nor can First it is not absolutely nor universally true There is a And where Hooker uses this very Argument as he doth L. 3. §. 8. his words are not If there bee sufficient Light But if that Light bee Evident sufficient Light therefore every man may see it Blinde men are men and cannot see it and b 1 Cor. 2. 14. sensuall men in the Apostles judgement are such Nor may we deny and put out this Light as insufficient because blinde eyes cannot and perverse eyes will not see it no more then we may deny meat to be sufficient for nourishment though men that are heart-sicke cannot eat it Next we do not say That there is such a full light in Scripture as that every man upon the first sight must yeeld to it such Light as is found in Prime Principles Every whole is greater than a Part of the same and this The same thing cannot be and not be at the same time and in the same respect These carrie a naturall Light with them and evident for the Termes are no sooner understood then the Principles themselves are fully knowne to the convincing of mans understanding and so they are the beginning of knowledge which where it is perfect dwels in full Light but such a full Light we do neither say is nor require to be in Scripture and if any particular man doe let him answer for himselfe The Question is onely of such a Light in Scripture as is of force to breed faith that it is the Word of God not to make a perfect knowledge Now Faith of whatsoever it is this or other Principle is an Evidence a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as well as Knowledge and Heb. 11. 1. the Beliefe is firmer then any Knowledge can
be because it rests upon Divine Authority which cannot deceive whereas Knowledge or at least he that thinks he knowes is not ever certaine in Deductions from Principles †§. 16. 〈◊〉 13. But the Evidence is not so deere For it is c Heb. 11. 1. of things not seene in regard of the Object and in regard of the Subject thatsees it is in d 1 Cor. 13. 12. And A. C. confesses p. 52. That this very thing in Question may be known infallibly when 't is knowne but obscurely Et Scotus in 3. Dist. 23 q. 1. fol. 41. B. Hoc modo sacile est videre quomodo â—…ides est cum aenigmate obscuritate Quia Habitus Fidei non credit Articulum esse verum ex Evidentia Objâ—…cti sed propter hoc quod assentit veracitati infâ—…ndentis Habitum in hoc revelantis Credibilia aenigmate in a Glasse or darke speaking Now God doth not require a full Demonstrative Knowledge in us that the Scripture is his Word and therefore in his Providence hath kindled in it no Light for that but he requires our Faith of it and such a certaine Demonstration as may fit that And for that he hath left sufficient Light in Scripture to Reason and Grace meeting where the soule is morally prepared by the Tradition of the Church unlesse you be of Bellarmine's e Bellar. l. 3. de Eccles. c. 14. Credere 〈◊〉 esse divinaâ—… Scripturas non est omninò necessarium ad salutem I will not breake my Discourse to risâ—…e this speech of Bellarmine it is bad enough in the best sense that favour it selfe can give it For if he meane by omninò that it is not altogether or simply necessary to believe there is Divine Scripture and a written Word of God that 's false that being granted which is among all Christians That there is a Scripture And God would never have given a Supernaturall unnecessary thing And if he meanes by omninò that it is not in any wise necessary then it is sensibly false For the greatest upholders of Tradition that ever were made the Scripture very necessary in all the Ages of the Church So it was necessary because it was given and given because God thought it necessary Besides upon Romane Grounds this I thinke will follow That which the Tradition of the present Church delivers as necessary to believe is omninò necessary to salvation But that there are Divine Scriptures the Tradition of the present Church delivers as necessary to believe Therefore to believe there are Divine Scriptures is omninò be the sense of the word what it can necessary to Salvation So Bellarmine is herein foule and unable to stand upon his owne ground And he is the more partly because he avouches this Proposition for truth after the New Testament written And partly because he might have seene the state of this Proposition carefully examined by Gandavo and distinguished by Times Sum. p. 1. A. 8. q. 4. fine Opinion That to believe there are any Divine Scriptures is not omninò necessary to Salvation The Authority which you pretend against this is out of a Lib. 1. §. 14. Hooker Of things necessary the very chiefest is to know what Bookes we are bound to esteeme Holy which Point is confessed impossible for the Scripture it selfe to teach Of this b Protest Apol. Tract 1. §. 10. N. 3. Brierly the Store-house for all Priests that will be idle and yet seeme well read tels us That c L. 2. §. 4. Hooker gives a very sensible Demonstration It is not the Word of God which doth or possibly can assure us that wee doe well to thinke it is His Word for if any one Booke of Scripture did give Testimony to all yet still that Scripture which giveth credit to the rest would require another to give credit unto it Nor could we ever come to any pause to rest our assurance this way so that unlesse beside Scripture there were something that might assure c. And d L. 2. §. 7. L. 3. §. 8. this he acknowledgeth saith Brierly is the Authority of Gods Church Certainely Hooker gives a true and a sensible Demonstration but Brierly wants fidelity and integrity in citing him For in the first place Hooker's speech is Scripture it selfe cannot teach this nor can the Truth say that Scripture it selfe can It must needs ordinarily have Tradition to prepare the minde of a man to receive it And in the next place where he speaks so sensibly That Scripture cannot beare witnesse to it selfe nor one part of it to another that is grounded upon Nature which admits no created thing to bee witnesse to it selfe and is acknowledged by our Saviour e S. Ioh. 5. 31. He speakes of himselfe as man If I beare witnesse to my selfe my witnesse is not true that is is not of force to bee reasonably accepted for Truth But then it is more then manifest S. Ioh. 8. 13. that Hooker delivers his Demonstration of Scripture alone For if Scripture hath another proofe nay many other proofes to usher it and lead it in then no question it can both prove and approve it selfe His words are So that unlesse besides Scripture there be c. Besides Scripture therefore he excludes not Scripture though he call for another Proofe to lead it in and help in assurance namely Tradition which no man that hath his braines about him denies In the two other Places Brierly falsifies shamefully for folding up all that Hooker sayes in these words This other meanes to assure us besides Scripture is the Authority of Gods Church he wrinkles that Worthy Authour desperately and shrinkes up his meaning For in the former place abused by Brierly no man can set a better state of the Question betweene Scripture and Tradition then Hooker doth a L. 2. §. 7. His words are these The Scripture is the ground of our Beliefe The Authority of man that is the Name he gives to Tradition is the Key which opens the doore of entrance into the knowledge of the Scripture I aske now when a man is entred and hath viewed a house and upon viewing likes it and upon liking resolves unchangeably to dwell there doth he set up his Resolution upon the Key that let him in No sure but upon the goodnesse and Commodiousnesse which he sees in the House And this is all the difference that I know betweene us in this Point In which do you grant as you ought to do that we resolve our Faith into Scripture as the Ground and we will never deny that Tradition is the Key that lets us in In the latter place Hooker is as plaine as constant to himselfe and Truth b L. 3. §. 8. His words are The first outward Motive leading men so to esteeme of the Scripture is the Authority of Gods Church c. But afterwards the more wee bestow our Labour in reading or learning the Mysteries thereof the
esso non potest hos esse Libros Canonicos Wal. Doct. fid l. 2. a. 2. c. 20. cui subesse non potest falsum into which no falshood can come but by a Divine Testimony This Testimony is absolute in Scripture it selfe delivered by the Apostles for the Word of God and so sealed to our Soules by the operation of the Holy Ghost That which makes way for this as an b Canus Loc. l. 2 c. 8. facit Ecclesiam Causam sine quanon Introduction and outward motive is the Tradition of the present Church but that neither simply Divine nor sufficient alone into which we may resolve our Faith but only as is †§. 16. before expressed And now to come close to the Particular The time was before this miserable Rent in the Church of Christ which I thinke no true Christian can looke upon but with a bleeding heart that you and Wee were all of One Beliefe That beliefe was tainted in tract and corruption of times very deepely A Division was made yet so that both Parts held the Creed and other Common Principles of Beliefe Of these this was one of the greatest †Inter omnes penè constat aut certè id quod satis est inter me illos cum quibus nunc agitur convenit hoc c. Sic in aliâ Causá cont Manichaos S. Aug. L. de Mor. Eccl. Cath. c. 4. That the Scripture is the VVord of God For our beliefe of all things contained in it depends upon it Since this Division there hath beene nothing done by us to discredit this Principle Nay We have given it all honour and ascribed unto it more sufficiency even to the containing of all things necessary to salvation with * Vin. Lir. cont Hares c. 2. Satis super que enough and more then enough which your selves have not done do not And for begetting and setling a Beliefe of this Principle we goe the same way with you and a better besides The same way with you Because we allow the Tradition of the present Church to be the first induceing Motive to embrace this Principle onely we cannot goe so farre in this way as you to make the present Tradition alwayes an Infallible VVord of God unwritten For this is to goe so farre in till you be out of the way For Tradition is but a Lane in the Church it hath an end not only to receive us in but another after to let us out into more open and richer ground And We go a better way then you Because after we are moved and prepared and induced by Tradition we resolve our Faith into that Written Word and God delivering it in which we finde materially though not in Termes the very Tradition that led us thither And so we are sure by Divine Authority that we are in the way because at the end we find the way proved And doe what can be done you can never settle the Faith of man about this great Principle till you rise to greater assurance then the Present Church alone can give And therefore once againe to that known place of S. Augustine * Contr. Epist. Fund c. 5. The words of the Father are Nisi commoveret Vnlesse the Authority of the Church mooved me but not alone but with other Motives eâ—…se it were not commovere to move together And the other Motives are Resolvers though this be Leader Now since we goe the same way with you so farre as you goe right and a better way then you where you go wrong we need not admit any other Word of God then We doc And this ought to remaine as a Presupposed Principle among all Christians and not so much as come into this Question about the sufficiency of Scripture betweene you and us But you say that F. From this the Lady called us and desiring to heare VVhether the Bishop would grant the Romane Church to be the Right Church The B. granted That it was B One occasion which mooved Tertullian to § 20 write his Booke de Praescript adversùs Haereticos was That he * Pamel in Summar Lib Uiaens Disputationibus â—…ihil ant parum profici saw little or no Profit come by Disputations Sure the Ground was the same then and now It was not to deny that Disputation is an Opening of the Vnderstanding a sifting out of Truth it was not to affirme that any such Disquisition is in and of it selfe unprofitable If it had S. Stephen a Acts 6 9. would not have disputed with the Cyrenians nor S. Paul with the b Acts. 9. 29. Grecians first and then with the Iewes c Acts 19. 17. and all Commers No sure it was some Abuse in the Disputants that frustrated the good of the Disputation And one Abuse in the Disputants is a Resolution to hold their own though it â—…e by unworthy means and disparagement d Debilitaetur generosa indoles conjecta in argutias Sen. Aep 48. of truth And so I finde it here For as it is true that this Question was asked so it is altogether false that it was asked in this * Here A. C. hath nothing to say but that the Iesuite did not affirme That the Lady askâ—…d this Question in this or any other precise forme No why the words preceding are the Iesuites own Therefore if these were not the Ladies words he wrongs her not I him forme or so Answâ—…red There is a great deale of Difference especially as Romanists handle the Question of the Church between The Church and A Church and there is some betvveene a True Church and a Right Church vvhich is the vvord you use but no man else that I knovv I am sure not I. For The Church may import in our Language The only true Church and perhaps as some of you seeme to make it the Root and the Ground of the Catholike And this I never did grant of the Romane Church nor ever meane to doe But A Church can imply no more then that it is a member of the Whole And this I never did nor ever will deny if it fall not absolutely away from Christ. That it is a True Church I granted also but not a Right as you impose upon me For Ens and Verum Being and True are convertible one with another and every thing that hath a Being is truly that Being which it is in truth of Substance But this word Right is not so used but is referd more properly to perfection in Conditions And in this sense every thing that hath a true and reall Being is not by and by Right in the Conâ—…itions of it A man that is most dishonest and unworthy the name a very Thiefe if you will is a True man in the verity of his Essence as he is a Creature endued with Reason for this none can steale from him nor he from himselfe but Death But he is not therefore a Right or an upright man And a Church that is
Patriarch to another who were fit or unfit to be admitted to their Communion if they upon any Occasion repaired to their Seas were sent mutually And as freely and in the same manner from Rome to the other Patriarchs as from them to it Out of which I thinke this will follow most directy That the Church-Government then was Aristocraticall For had the Bishop of Rome been then accounted Sole Monarch of the Church and beene put into the Definition of the Church as he is now by a Bellar. L. 3. de Eccles. c. 2. §. Nostra autem Bellarmine all these Communicatorie Letters should have beene directed from him to the rest as whose admittance ought to be a Rule for all to Communicate but not from others to him or at least not in that even equall and Brotherly way as now they appeare to be written For it is no way probable that the Bishops of Rome which even then sought their owne Greatnesse too much would have submitted to the other Patriarchs voluntarily had not the very Course of the Church put it upon them Besides this is a great and undoubted Rule given by b Non â—…im Râ—…publica est in Ecclesiâ sed Ecclesia in Republicâ i. e. in Imperio Romano Optat. L. 3. Optatus That wheresoever there is a Church there the Church is in the Common-wealth not the Common-wealth in the Church And so also the Church was in the Romane Empire Now from this Ground I argue thus If the Church be within the Empire or other Kingdome 't is impossible the Government of the Church should be Monarchicall For no Emperour or King will indure another King within his Dominion that shall bee greater then himselfe since the very induring it makes him that indures it upon the matter no Monarch Nor will it disturbe this Argument That two Great Kings in France and Spaine permit this For he that is not blinde may see if hee will of what little value the Pope's power is in those Kingdomes farther then to serve their owne turnes of Him which They do to their great advantage Nay farther the Ancient Canons and Fathers of the Church seem to me plaine for this For the a Conc. Antioch c. 9. p. 507. Councell of Antioch submits Ecclesiasticall Causes to the Bishops And what was done amisse by a Bishop was corrigible by a b Conc. Nic. 1. c. 5. Antioch c. 12. Synod of Bishops but this with the c Conc. Nie. 1. c. 4. Antioch can 9. Metropolitane And in Case these did not agree the d Conc. Antioch c. 14. Metropolitane might call in other Bishops out of the neighbouring Provinces And if Things setled not this way a Generall Councell e Sed praeponitur Scriptura S. August L. 2. de Bapt. cont Donat c. 3. under the Scripture and directed by it was the Highest Remedy And f Nam cùm Statutum sit omnibus nobis c. singulis Pastoribus portio gregis c. S. Cypr. L. 1. Ep 3. S. Cyprian even to Pope Cornelius himselfe sayes plainely That to every Bishop is ascribed a portion of the flocke for bim to governe And so not all committed to One. In all this the Government of the Church seemes plaâ—…nely Aristocraticall And if all other Arguments faile wee have one left from Bellarmine who opposes it as much as any g Bellar. L. 1 de Ro. Pont. c. 8. L. 2. de Concil c. 16. twice for failing And yet where hee goes to Exclude Secular Princes from Church-Governement h Bellar. L. 1. de Ro. Pâ—…nt c. 7. all his Quotations and all his Proofes run upon this Head to shew That the Governement of the Church was ever in the Bishops What sayes A. C. now to the Confession of this great Adversarie A. C. p. 64 65. and in this great Point extorted from him by force of Truth Now if this bee true then the whole foundation of this Argument is gone The Church Militant is no Kingdome and therefore not to be Compared or Iudged by One. The Resemblance will not hold Next suppose it a Kingdome yet the Church Militant remaining one is spread in many Earthly Kingdomes and cannot well bee ordered like any one particular a Liâ—…et sit 〈◊〉 quòd uni Populâ—… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sit unus Episcopus non expedit taâ—…n 〈◊〉 toti pâ—…pulo fideli praesit unus sâ—…lus Tum quia omnia Negotia 〈◊〉 popâ—…li partialis potest sustinere unus sâ—…us Nullus autem unus potest sustinere omnia Negotia etiam majora omnium Christianorum Tum quia minus 〈◊〉 est ut populus partialis parvus inâ—…iatur ab 〈◊〉 Episâ—…opo quam ut totus vel ferè totus populus Christâ—… insiciatur ab uno Capite quod omnibus praesit 〈◊〉 L. 2. Dial. tract 1. p. 3. c. 30. ad 8. And besides this of Ockam To that Common Argument That Monar â—…call Governement is the best and therefore undâ—…dly that which Christ instituted for his Church 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to Answer That a Monarchy is the best forme of Government in one City or Countrey Arist. L. 8. Moâ—…l c. 10. But it followes not That it is the best in respect of the whole world where the Parts are so remote and the Dispositions of men so various And therefore Bellarm. himselfe confesses Monarchiam Aristocratiae Democratiae admixtam utiliorem esse in hác vità quà m simplex Monarchia est L. 1. de Ro. Pont. c. 3. §. 1. Kingdome And therefore though in one particular Kingdom there be many Visible Iudges and one Supreme yet it followes not That in the Vniversall Militant Church there must be one Supreme For how will he enter to Execute his Office if the Kings of those Kingdomes will not give leave Now here though A. C. expresses himselfe no farther yet I well know what he and his Fellowes would be at They would not be troubled to aske leave of any severall Kings in their severall Dominions No they would have one Emperour over all the Kings as well as One Pope over all the Bishops And then you know b In the first Glosse ascribed to Isidore in Gen. 1. 16. ' Tiâ—… Per Solem intelligitur Regnum per Lunam Saceidotium But Innocent the third almost six hundred yeares after Isidore's death perverts both Text and Glosse Thus. Ad firmamentum Coeli i. e. Vniversalis Ecclesiae fecit Deus duo magna Luminaria hoc est dâ—…us inâ—…ituit Potestates Pontificalem Regalem c. 〈◊〉 quantainter Solem Lanam tanta 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Reges differentia cognoscatur Epist. ad Imperaâ—…â—…nopolitanum Decret L. 1. de Majoritate Obâ—…ntia Tit. 33. cap. Solitae who told us of two great Lights to governe the world the Sun and the Moone that is the Pope and the Emperour At the first it began with more modesty The Emperour and the Pâ—…pe And that was somewhat Tolerable For c 〈◊〉 Miliâ—… 〈◊〉 Sâ—…ripturis 〈◊〉
Patriarch or Christian Bishop which did confirm the Canons of the Councell of Irent and Anathematize them which admitted them not and I will confesse they speake home to the Comparison between the Councels els a blinde man may see the difference and 't is a vast one But here A. C. makes account he hath found a better reply to this and now tels us that neither French nor Spanish nor Schismaticall Greekes did agree with Protestants A. C p. 62. in those Points which were defined in that Councell especially after it was Confirmed by the Pope as appeares by the Censure of Ieremias the Greeke Patriarch Who agreed with the Protestants in the Points defined by that Councell as he speakes or rather â—…o speake properly against the Points there defined I know not And for ought A. C. knowes many might agree with them in heart that in such a Councell durst not open themselves And what knowes A. C. how many might have beene of their Opinion in the maine before the Councell ended had they beene admitted to a faire and a free Dispute And it may be too some Decrees would have beene more favourable to them had not the care of the Popes interest made them sowrer For else what mean these words Especially after it was confirmed by the Pope As for Ieremtas 't is true his Censure is in many things against the Protestants But I finde not that that Censure of his is warranted by any Authority of the Greeke Church Or that he gave the Protestants any hearing before he passed his Censure And at the most it is but the Censure of a Schismatick in A. C. owne Iudgement And for his flourish which followes that East and West would Condemne Protestants for Hereticks I would he would forbeare prophecying till both parts might meet in a free Generall Councell that sought Christ more then themselves But I finde the Iesuite hath not done with me yet but addes F. In fine the B. wished That a Lawfull Generall Councell were called to end Controversies The Persons present said That the King was inclined thereunto and that therefore we Catholikes might doe well to concurre B. And what say you to my Wish you pretend § 30 great love to the Truth would you not have it found Can you or any Christian be offended that there should be a good end of Controversies Can you think of a better end then by a Generall Councell And if you have a most Gracious King inclined unto it as you say it was offered how can you acquit your selves if you doe not consent Now here A. C. marvels what A. C. p. 62. kind of General Councel I would have and what Rules I would have observed in it which are morally like to be observed and make an end of Controversies better then their Catholike Generall Councels Truly I am not willing to leave A. C. unsatisfied in any thing Nor have I any meaning to trouble the Church with any New Devisings of mine Any Generall Councell shall satisfie me and I presume all good Christians that is lawfully called continued and ended according to the same course and under the same * Ex iis Conciliis quae omnium consensu Generalia fuerunt qualia sunt quatuor prima Et ex consuetudine Ecclesiae colligimus quatuor Conditiones requiri sufficere Bellar. 1. de Con. c. 17. §. 2. Conditions which Generall Councels observed in the Primitive Church which I am sure were Councels Generall and Catholike what ever yours bee But I doubt that after all noyse made about these Requisite Conditions A. C. and his Fellowes will be found as much if not more defective in performance of the Conditions then in the conditions themselves Well the Iesuite goes on for all this F. I asked the B. whether hee thought a Generall Ccuncell might erre He said it might B. I presume you doe not expect I should enter into the Proofe of this Controversie Whether a Generall § 31 Councell may erre in Determination or not Your selfe brought no proofe that it cannot and till that bee brought my speech is good that it can and yet I hope to bee found no Infringer of any Power given by Christ to his Church But it seemes by that which followes you did by this Question Can a generall Councell Erre but seeke to winne ground for your other which followes F. If a Generall Councell may erre what nearer are wee then said I to unity after a Councell hath determined Yes said he although it may erre yet we should be bound to hold with it till another come to reverse it B Whether a Generall Councell may erre or not § 32 is a Question of great Consequence in the Church of Christ. To say it cannot erre leaves the Church not only without Remedy against an errour once Determined but also without sense that it may need a Remedy and so without care to seeke it which is the misery of the Church of Rome at this day To say it can erre seemes to expose the members of the Church to an uncertainty and wavering in the Faith to make unquiet Spirits not only to disrespect former Councels of the Church but also to slight and contemne whatsoever it may now Determine into which Errour some Opposers of the Church of Rome have fallen And upon this is grounded your Question Wherein are we nearer to unity if a Councell may erre But in relating my answer to this you are not so candid For my words did not sound as yours seeme to doe That wee should â—…old with the Councell erre or not erre till another came to reverse it As if Grounds of Faith might vary at the Racket and be cast of each side as a cunning hand might lay them You forget againe omit at least and with what minde you best know the Caution which I added For I said The Determination of a Generall Councell erring was to stand in force and to have externall Obedience at the least yeelded to it till * §. 33. Confid 5. Nu. 1. 2. And the Râ—…son of this is Because to have a General Councel deceived is not impossible But altogether impossible it is that Demonstratiâ—…e Râ—…ason or Testimony Diâ—…ine should deceâ—…ve Hooker L. 2. Ec. Pol. § 7. Evidence of Scripture or a Demonstration to the Contrary made the Errour appeare and untill thereupon †In which case Maldoâ—… puts in the shâ—…ewdest Arg ment Namely that this way we should never have a certaine end of Controversies For to try whether any thing were Decreed according to the Word of God by one General Councel we â—…ould need another Couâ—…ll And thâ—…n anoâ—…her to try that And so in 〈◊〉 So our faith should never have where to settle and rest it selfe Malâ—…n S. Mat. 1â—… 20. But to this I answer That the Aâ—…nt Church tooke this way as will afterward appeare in S. Augustine Next here is no uncâ—…rtainty at all For no 〈◊〉 Coâ—…cell lawfully called and so
I think it is undoubted Truth That one and the same Conclusion may be Faith to the Believer that cannot prove and Knowledge to the Learned that can And b Cont. Fund c. 4. S. Augustine I am sure in regard of one and the same thing even this the very Wisdome of the Church in her Doctrine ascribes Vnderstanding to one sort of men and Beliefe to another weaker sort And c Tho. p. 1. q. 2. A. 2. ad 1. Nihil prohibet illud quod secundùm se demonstrabile est scibile ab aliquo acciti ut Credibile qui Demonstrationem non capit Thomas goes with him Now for further satisfaction if not of you yet of others this may well be thought on Man lost by sin the Integrity of his Nature and cannot have Light enough to see the way to Heaven but by Grace This Grace was first merited after given by Christ this Grace is first kindled in Faith by which if we agree not to some Supernaturall Principles which no Reason can demonstrate simply we can never see our way But this Light when it hath made Reason submit it self cleares the Eye of Reason it never puts it out In which sense it may be is that of a L. 3. Rationabilu ubique diffusa Optatut That the very Catholike Church it selfe is reasonable as well as diffused every where By which b Ut ipsâ fide valentiores facti quod credimus intelligere mereannur non jam hominibus sed Deo intrinsecùs mentem nostram firmante illuminante S. Aug. cont Epist Fundamenti c. 14. Reason inlightened which is stronger then Reason the Church in all Ages hath beene able either to convert or convince or at least c Omnia genera Ingeniorum subdita Scripturae S. Aug. L. 22. cont Faust. cap. 96. stop the mouthes of Philosophers and the great men of Reason in the very Point of Faith where it is at highest To the present occasion then The first immediate Fundamentall Points of Faith without which there is no salvation as they cannot be proved by Reason so neither need they be determined by any Councell nor ever were they attempted they are so plaine set downe in the Scripture If about the sense and true meaning of these or necessary deduction out of these Prime Articles of Faith Generall Councels determine any thing as they have done in Nice and the rest there is no inconvenience that one and the same Canon of the Councell should be believed as it reflects upon the Articles and Grounds indemonstrable and d Almain 3. D. 24. q. 1. Tho. 2. 2a q. 1. A. 5. C. Id quod est scitum ab uno homine etiam in statu via est ab alio Creditum qui hoc Demonstrare non novit yet knowne to the Learned by the Meanes and Proofe by which that Deduction is vouched and made good And againe the Conclusion of a Councell suppose that in Nice about the Consubstantiality of Christ with the Father in it selfe considered is indemonstrable by Reason There I believe and assent in Faith But the same Conclusion e Concilium Nicanum deduxit Conclusionem ex Scripturis Bellar 2. de Concil c. 12. §. Sic etià m if you give me the Ground of Scripture and the Creed and somewhat must be supposed in all whether Faith or Knowledge is demonstrable by naturall Reason against any Arrian in the world And if it be demonstrable I may know it and have an Habit of it And what inconvenience in this For the weaker sort of Christians which cannot deduce when they have the Principle granted they are to rest upon the Definition only and their Assent is meere Faith yea and the Learned too where there is not a Demonstration evident to them assent by Faith onely and not by knowledge And what inconvenience in this Nay the necessity of Nature is such that these Principles once given the understanding of man cannot rest but it must be thus And the †S. Pet. 3. 15. Apostle would never have required a man to be alle to give a Reason and an account of the hope that is in him if he might not be able to know his account or have lawfull interest to give it when he knew it without prejudicing his Faith by his knowledge And suppose exact knowledge and meere Beliefe cannot stand together in the same Person in regard of the same thing by the same meanes yet that doth not make void this Truth For where is that exact knowledge or in whom that must not meerely in points of Faith believe the Article or Ground upon which they rest But when that is once believed it can demonstrate many things from it And Definitions of Councels are not Principia Fidei Principles of Faith but Deductions from them And now because you aske Wherein are we nearer Consid. 7. to unity by a Councell if a Councell may erre Besides the Answer given I promised to consider which Opinion was most agreeable with the Church which most able to preserve or reduce Christian Peace The Romane That a Councell cannot erre Or the Protestants That it can And this I propose not as a Rule but leave the Christian world to consider of it as I doe First then I Consider Whether in those Places of Scripture before mentioned or any other there bâ—…e promised to the present Church an absolute Infallibility Or whether such an Infallibility will not serve the turne as * Relect. Cont. 4. q. 2. Notab 3 Exacta Omnimodâ Infallibilitate non indiget sed satis est semel acceptis c. Stapleton after much wrigling is forced to acknowledge One not every way exact because it is enough if the Church doe diligently insist upon that which was once received and there is not need of so great certainty to open and explicate that which lyes hid in the seed of Faith sowne and deduce from it as to seeke out and teach that which was altogether unknowne And if this be so then sure the Church of the Apostles required guidance by a greater degree of Infallibility then the present Church which yet if it follow the Scripture is Infallible enough though it hath not the same degree of Certainty which the Apostles had and the Scripture hath Nor can I tell what to make of Bellarmine that in a whole Chapter disputes five Prerogatives in Certainty of Truth a L. 2 de Con. c. 12. §. ult Cùm utraque sint infallibilis veritatis aquè certa dici possunt that the Scripture hath above a Councell and at last Concludes That They may be said to be equally certain in Infallible Truth The next thing I Consider is Suppose this not Exact but congruous Infallibility in the Church Is it not residing according to Power and Right of Authority in the whole Church and in a Generall Councell only by Power deputed b Nam si Ecclesiae Vniversitati non
punished by the Church Bellarmine hath disputed this very learnedly and at large and I will not fill this Discourse with another mans labours The use I shall make of it runnes through all these Opinions and through all alike And truly the very Question it selfe supposes that A Pope may be an Heretick For if he cannot be an Heretick why doe they question whether he can be Deposed for being One And if he can be one then whether he can be deposed by the Church Before he be manifest or not till after or neither before nor after or which way they will it comes all to one for my purpose For I question not here his Deposition for his Heresie but his Heresie And I hope none of these Learned men nor any other dare deny but that if the Pope can be an Hereticke he can erre For every Heresie is an errour and more For 't is an Errour ofttimes against the Errants knowledge but ever with the pertinacie of his Will Therefore out of all even your owne Grounds If the Pope can be an Heretick he can erre grosly he can erre wilfully And he that can so Erre cannot bee Infallible in his Iudgement private or publike For if he can be an Hereticke he can and doubtlesse will Iudge for his Heresie if the Church let him alone And you your selves maintaine his Deposition lawfull to prevent this I verily believe a Pighius L. 4. Ecclesiastica Hierarchia c. 8. Alb. Pighius foresaw this blow And therefore he is of Opinion That the Pope cannot become an Hereticke at all And though b Communis Opinio est in contrarium Bellar L. 2. de Ro. Pont. c. 30. §. 2. Bellarmine favour him so farre as to say his Opinion is probable yet he is so honest as to adde that the common Opinion of Divines is against him Nay though c L. 4. de Ro. Pont. cap. 11. he Labour hard to excuse Pope Honorius the first from the Heresie of the Monothelites and sayes that Pope Adrian was deceived who thought him one yet d Tamen non possumus negare quin Adrianus cum Romano Concilio imò tota Synodus octava Generalis senserit in causâ Haresis posse Rom. Pontificem judicari Adde quod esset miserrima Conditio Ecclesia si Lupum manifestè grassantem pro Pastore agnoscere cogeretur Bellar L. 2. de Ro. Pont. c 30. §. 5. He confesses That Pope Adrian the second with the Councell then held at Rome and the eight Generall Synod did thinke that the Pope might be judged in the Cause of Heresie And that the condition of the Church were most miserable if it should be constrained to acknowledge a Wolfe manifestly raging for her Shepheard And here againe I have a Question to aske whether you believe the eight Generall Councell or not If you believe it then you see the Pope can erre and so He not Infallible If you believe it not then in your Iudgement that Generall Councell erres and so that not Infallible Thirdly It is altogether in vaine and to no use that the Pope should be Infallible and that according to your owne Principles Now God and Nature make nothing in vaine Therefore either the Pope is not Infallible or at least God never made him so That the Infallibility of the Pope had he any in him is altogether vaine and uselesse is manifest For if it be of any use 't is for the setling of Truth and Peace in the Church in all times of her Distraction But neither the Church nor any member of it can make any use of the Popes Infallibility that way Therefore it is of no use or benefit at all And this also is as manifest as the rest For before the Church or any particular man can make any use of this Infallibility to settle him and his Conscience hee must either Know or Believe that the Pope is Infallible But a man can neither Know nor Believe it And first for Beliefe For if the Church or any Christian man can believe it he must believe it either by Divine or by Humane Faith Divine Faith cannot be had of it For as is before prooved it hath no Ground in the written Word of God Nay to follow you closer it was never delivered by any Tradition of the Catholike Church And for Humane Faith no Rationall man can possibly believe having no Word of God to over-rule his Vnderstanding that he which is Fallible in the meanes as a Staple Relect. cont 4. q. 2. Notab 4. your selves confesse the Pope is can possibly be Infallible in the Conclusion And were it so that a Rationall man could have Humane Faith of this Infallibility yet that neither is nor ever can be sufficient to make the Pope Infallible No more then my strong Beliefe of another mans Honesty can make him an Honest man if he be not so Now secondly for Knowledge And that is altogether impossible too that either the Church or any Member of the Church should ever know that the Pope is Infallible And this I shall make evident also out of your owne Principles For your b Omnia Sacramenta tribus persiciuntur c. Decret Eugenii 4 in Concil Fleren Councell of Florence had told us That three things are necessary to every Sacrament the Matter the Forme of the Sacrament And the Intention of the Priest which Administers it that he intends to do as the Church doth Your c Con. Trid. Ses. 7. Can. 1. Councell of Trent confirmes it for the Intention of the Priest Vpon this Ground be it Rocke or Sand it is all one for you make it Rocke and build upon it I shall raise this Battery against the Popes Infallibility First the Pope if he have any Infallibility at all he hath it as he is Bishop of Rome and S. Peters Successor Bellaâ—… L 4. de Ro. Pent. c. 3. § 〈◊〉 Pâ—…vilegium est This is granted Secondly the Pope cannot be Bishop of Rome but he must be in holy Orders first And if any man be chosen that is not so the Election is void ipso facto propter errorem Personae for the Errour of the Person †Constantinus ex Laiâ—…o Papa circa Ann. 767. ejectus Papatu Et Steph 3. qui successit habito Concilio statuit ne quis nisi per Gradus Ecclesiasticos ascendens Pontifiâ—…atuÌ„ occupare auderet sub paenâ Anathematis Decret Dist. 79. c. Nullus This is also granted Thirdly He that is to be made Pope can never be in Holy Orders but by receiving them from One that hath Power to Ordaine This is notoriously knowne So is it also that with you Order is a Sacrament properly so called And if so then the Pope when he did receive the Order of Deacon or Priesthood at the hands of the Bishop did also receive a Sacrament Vpon these Grounds I raise my Argument thus Neither the Church nor any Member of the Church can know that
Protestants have ever beene ready for Truth and in Charity to grant as much as might be And therefore from the beginning many †Nos fatemur sub Papaetu plurimum esse boni imò omne bonum Christianum at que etiam illinc ad nos devenisse c. Luther contra Anabaptist citante Bellarmine L. 4. de Notis Eccles. c. 16. §. penult Et Field appendice par 3. c. 2. Et Ios. Hall Bishop of Exeter L. Of the Old Religion c. t. Many holding Christ the Foundation aright and groaning under the burden of Popish trash c. by a generall repentance and assured Faith in their Saviour did finde favour with the Lord. D. Geo. Abbot late Archbishop of Cant. Answer to Hill ad Ration 1. §. 30. For my part I dare not deny the possibility of their Salvation who have beene the chiefest Instruments of ours c. Hooker in his Discourse of Iustificat §. 17. In former times a man might hold the generall Doctrine of those Churches wherein our Fathers lived and be saved And yet since the Councell of Trent some are found in it in such degree of Orthodoxy as we may well hope of their Salvation Field L. 3. Eccl. c. 47. The Latine or Westerne Church subject to the Romish Tyranny was a true Church in which a saving profession of the Truth of Christ was found Ios. Hall B. of Exeter L. Of the old Religion fine in his Advertisement to the Reader p. 202. Non panci retinuerunt Christum Fundamentum c. Mornaeus Tract de Ecclesia c. 9. fine Inter sordes istas ista quae summe cum periculo expectetur salus non ipsorum Additamentis sed iis quae nobiscum habent communia Fundamentis est attribuenda Io. Prideaux Lectione 9. fine Papa aliquam adhuc Religionis formam relinquit spem vitae aternae non tollit c. Calv. Instruct. advers Libertinos c. 4. Leà rned men granted this So that you needed not have put such a serious Mark that upon my speech as if none before had or none but I would speake it And if your Marke that were not for some New matter was it for some Great Yes sure it was For what greater then Salvation But then I pray marke this too That might be saved grants but a a Here A. C. gets another snatch and tels us That to grant a Possibility of Salvation in the Romane Church is the free Confession of an Adversary and therfore is of force against us and extorted by Truth But to say that salvation is more securely and easily to be had in the Protestant Faith that 's but their partiall Opinion in their own behalfe and of no force especially with Romane Catholikes I easily believe this latter part That this as A. C. and the rest use the matter with their Proselytes shall be of little or no force with Romane Catholikes But it will behoove them that it bee of force For let any indifferent man weigh the Necessary Requisites to Salvation and he shall finde this no partiall Opinion but very plaine and reall Verity That the Protestant living according to his belief is upon the safer way to Heaven And as for my Confession let them enforce it as farre as they can against me so they observe my Limitations which if they do A. C. and his fellowes will of all the rest have but little comfort in such a limited Possibility Possibility no sure or safe way to Salvation The Possibility I think cannot be denied the Ignorants especially because they hold the Foundation and cannot survey the Building And the Foundation can deceive no man that rests upon it But a secure way they cannot goe that hold with such corruptions when they know them Now whether it be wisdome in such a Point as Salvation is to forsake a Church in the which the Ground of Salvation is firme to follow a Church in which it is but possible one may be saved but very probable he may do worse if he look not well to the Foundation judge ye I am sure b L. 1. De Bapt. cont Don. c. 3. Gravitèr peccarent in rebus ad salutem animae pertinentibus c. â—…o solo quod certis incerta praeponerent S. Augustine thought it was not and judged it a great sinne in Point of Salvation for a man to preferre incerta certis uncertainties and naked possibilities before an evident and certaine Course And c Propter incertitudinem propriae Iustitiae periculuminanis gloriâ—… tutissimuÌ„ est fiduciam totam in solá Dei misericordiâ benignitate reponere Bellar. L. 5. ae Iustif. c. 7. §. Sit tertia Propositio Bellarmine is of Opinion and that in the Point of Iustification That in regard of the uncertainty of our own Righteousnesse and of the danger of vaine glory tutissimum est 't is safest to repose our whole trust in the Mercy and Goodnesse of God And surely if there be One safer way then another as he Confesses there is he is no wise man that in a matter of so great moment will not betake himselfe to the safest way And therefore even you your selves in the Point of Condignity of Merit though you write it and preach it boysterously to the People yet you are content to dye renouncing the condignity of all your owne Merits and trust to Christs Now surely if you will not venture to dye as you live live and beleeve in time as you meane to die And one thing more because you bid Marke this let me remember to tell you for the benefit of others Vpon this very Point That we acknowledge an honest ignorant Papist may be saved you and your like worke upon the advantage of our Charity and your owne want of it to abuse the weake For thus I am told you worke upon them You see the Protestants at least many of them confesse there may be salvation in our Church We absolutely deny there is salvation in theirs Therefore it is safer to come to Ours then to stay in theirs to be where almost all grant Salvation then where the greater part of the world deny it This Argument is very prevailing with men that cannot weigh it and with women especially that are put in feare by * And this peece of Cunning to affright the weake was in use in Iustin Martyrs time Quosdam scimus c. ad Iracundiam suam Evangelium pâ—…ntes c. quibus si potestas ea obtigisset ut â—…los Gehenna traderent Orbem quoque Vniversum consumpsissent Iust. Martyr Epist. ad Zenam Serinam And here 't is ad Iracundiam suam Ecclesiam pertrahentes c. violent though causelesse denying Heaven unto them And some of your party since this have set out a Booke called Charity mistaken But beside the Answer fully given to it this alone is sufficient to Confute it First that in this our Charity what ever yours be is not mistaken unlesse the
Charity of the Church her selfe were mistaken in the Case of the Donatists as shall †§. 35. Nu. 3. after appeare Secondly even Mistaken Charity if such it were is farre better then none at all And if the Mistaken be ours the None is yours Yea but A. C. tells us That this denyall of Salvation A. C. p. 65. is grounded upon Charitie as were the like threats of Christ and the Holy Fathers For there is but one true Faith and one true Church and out of that there is no Salvation And he that will not heare the Church S. Matth. 18. let him bee as a Heathen and a Publicane Therefore he sayes 't is more Charity to fore-warne us of the danger by S. Matth. 18. 17. these threats then to let us run into it thorough a false security 'T is true that there is but one true Faith and but one true Church But that one both Faith and Church is the a And this is prooved by the Creed â—…n which we professe our Beliefe of the Catholike not of the Roman Church Catholike Christian not the Particular Romane And this Catholike Christian Church he that will not both heare and obey yea and the Particular Church in which hee lives too so farre as it in necessaries agrees with the Vniversall is in as bad condition as a Heathen and a Publicane and perhaps in some respects worse And were we in this Case we should thanke A. C. for giving us warning of our danger But 't is not so For he thunders out all these threats and denyall of salvation because we joyne not with the Romane Church in all things as if her Corruptions were part of the Catholike Faith of Christ. So the whole passage is a meere begging of the Question and then threatning upon it without all ground of Reason or Charity In the meane time let A. C. looke to himselfe that in his false security hee run not into the danger and losse of his owne salvation while hee would seeme to take such care of ours But though this Argument prevailes with the weake yet it is much stronger in the cunning then the true force of it For all Arguments are very mooving that lay their ground upon b This is a free Confession of the Adversaries Argument against themselves and therefore is of force A. C. p. 64. But every Confession of Adversaries or others is to be taken with its Qualities and Conditions If you leave out or change these you wrong the Confession and then 't is of no force And â—…so doth A. C. here And though Bell. rm makes the Confession of the Adversaâ—…y a note of the true Church L. 4. de Notâ—…s Ecâ—…l c. 16. yet in the very beginning whâ—… layes his Ground 〈◊〉 1. he layes it 〈◊〉 plaine fallacie à secunaùm quid ad simpliciter the Adversaries Confession especially if it be confessed and avouched to be true But if you would speak truly and say Many Protestants indeed confesse there is salvation possible to be attained in the Romane Church but that yet they say withall that the Errors of that Church are so many * For they are no meane Differences that are betweene us by Bellarmines owne Confession Agendum est non de rebus levibus sed de gravissimis Quastionibut quae ad ipsa Fidei fundament a pertinent c. Bellarm. in praefat Operibus praefixá §. 3. And therefore the Errours in them and the Corruptions of them cannot bee of small Consequence by your owne Confession Yeâ—… by your owne indeed For you A. C. say full as much if not more then Bellarmine Thus We Catholikes hold all points in which Protestants differ from us in Doctrine of Faith to be Fundamentall and necessary to bee Believed or at least not denyed A. C. Relation of the first Conference p. 28. and some so great by the Confession of your owne as weaken the Foundation that it is very hard to goe that way to Heaven especially to them that have had the Truth manifested the heart of this Argument were utterly broken Besides the force of this Argument lyes upon two things one directly Expressed the other but as upon the By. That which is expressed is We and our Adversaries consent that there is salvation to some in the Romane Church What would you have us as malicious at least as rash as your selves are to us and deny you so much as possibility of Salvation If we should we might make you in some things straine for a Proofe But we have not so learned Christ as either to return evill for evill in this headie course or to deny salvation to some ignorant silly soules whose humble peaceable obedience makes them safe among any part of men that professe the Foundation Christ And therefore seeke not â—…o help our Cause by denying this comfort to silly Christians as you most fiercely do where you can come to worke upon them And this was an old trick of the Donatists For in the Point of Baptisme Whether that Sacrament was true in the Catholike Church or in the Part of Donatus they exhorted all to be baptised among them VVhy Because both Parts granted that Baptisme was true among the Dâ—…atists which that peevish Sect most unjustly denyed the sound part as S. †Esse verò apud Dâ—…natistas Baptismum illi asserunt nos concedimus c. L. 1. de Bap. cont Donat. c. 3. Augustine delivers it I would aske now Had not the Orthodox true Baptisme among them because the Donatists denyed it injuriously Or should the Orthodox against Truth have denyed Baptisme among the Donatists either to cry quittance with them or that their Argument might not be the stronger because both parts granted But Marke this how farre you runne from all common Principles of Christian Peace as well as Christian Truth while you deny salvation most unjustly to us from which you are farther off your selves Besides if this were or could be made a concluding Argument I pray why doe not you believe with us in the Point of the Eucharist For all sides agree in the Faith of the Church of England That in the most Blessed Sacrament the Worthy receiver is by his * Corpus Christi manducatur in Coena c. tantùm caelesti spirituall ratione Medium autem quo Corpus Christi accipitur manducatur in Coenâ Fides est Eccl. Angl. Art 28. After a spirituall manner by Faith on our behalfe and by the working of the Holy Ghost on the behalfe of Christ. Fulk in 1 Cor. 11. p. 528. Christus se cum omnibus bonis suit in Coenâ offert nos eum recipimus fide c. Calv. 4. Inst. c. 17. §. 5. Et Hooker L. 5. §. 67. p. 176. And say not you the same with us Spiritualis manducatio quae per Animam fit ad Christi Carnem in Sacramento pertingit Cajet Tom. 2. Opusc. de Euchar. Tract 2. Cap. 5. Sed
Contrary to his Conscience Presupposing it granted that the Church of Rome erres only in not Fundamentals and such Errours not Damnable which is absolutely and clearly denyed by D. White To this A. C. sayes nothing but that D. VVhite did not give this Answer A. C. p. 67. at the Conference I was not present at the Conference betweene them so to that I can say nothing as a witnesse But I thinke all that knew D. White will believe his affirmation as soone as the Iesuites To say no more And whereas A. C. referres to the Relation of the Conference betweene D. White and M. Fisher A. C. p. 67. most true it is there * A. C. in his relation of that Conference p. 26. D. VVhite is charged to have made that Answer twise But all this rests upon the credit of A. C. only For †For so 't is said in the Title-page by A. C. he is said to have made that Relation too as well as this And against his Credit I must engage D. Whites who hath avowed another Answer as a §. 37. Nu. 1. NUM 8. before is set downe And since A. C. relates to that Conference which it seemes hee makes some good account of I shall here once for all take occasion to assure the Reader That most of the Points of Moment in that Conference with D. VVhite are repeated againe and againe and urged in this Conference or the Relation of A. C. and are here answered by me For instance In the Relation of the first Conference the Iesuite takes on him to prove 1 the Vnwritten VVord of God out of 2. Thes. 2. pag. 15. And so he doth in the Relation of this Conference with me pag. 50. In the first he stands upon it That the Protestants 2 upon their Principles cannot hold that all Fundamentall points of Faith are contained in the Creed pag. 19. And so he doth in this pag. 46. In the first he would faine through 3 M. Roger's sides wound the Church of England as if shee were unsetled in the Article of Christ's Descent into Hell pag 21 And he endeavours the same in this pag. 46. In the first he is very earnest to prove That the Schisme was made by the Protestants pag. 23. And he is as earnest for 4 it in this pag. 55. In the first he layes it for a Ground That Corruption of Manners is no just Cause of separation 5 from Faith or Church pag. 24. And the same Ground he layes in this pag. 55. In the first he will have it That the 6 Holy Ghost gives continuall and Infallible Assistance to the Church pag. 24. And just so will he have it in this p 53. In the first he makes much adoe about the Errig of the 7 Greeke Church page 28. And as much makes he in this page 44. In the first he makes a great noyse about the 8 place in S. Augustine Ferendus est disputator errans c. page 18. and 24. And so doth hee here also page 45. In the first he would make his Proselytes believe That 9 he and his Cause have mighty advantage by that Sentence of S. Bernard 'T is intolerable Pride And that of S. Augustine 'T is insolent madnesse to oppose the Doctrine or Practice of the Catholike Church page 25. And twise he is at the same Art in this page 56. and. 73. In the first he 10 tels us That * Postquam discessionem a toto mundo facere coacti sumus Calv. Epist. 141. Calvin confesses That in the Reformation there was a Departure from the whole world page 25. And though I conceive Calvine spake this but of the Roman world and of no Uoluntary but a forced Departure and wrote this to Melancthon to worke Vnity among the Reformers not any way to blast the Reformation Yet we must heare of it againe in this page 56. But over and above the rest one Place with his owne glosse upon 11 it pleases him extremely 'T is out of S. Athanasius his Creed That whosoever doth not hold it entire that is saith he in all Points and Inviolate that is saith hee in the true unchanged and uncorrupted sense proposed unto us by the Pastors of his Catholike Church without doubt he shall perish everlastingly This he hath almost verbatim in the first page 20. And in the Epistle of the Publisher of that Relation to the Reader under the Name of VV. I. and then againe the very same in this if not with some more disadvantage to himselfe page 70. And perhaps had I leasure to search after them more Points then these Now the Reasons which mooved mee to set downe these Particulars thus distinctly are two The One that whereas the * In the begining of the Conference set out by A. C. Iesuite affirmes that in a second Conference all the speech was about Particular matters and little or nothing about the maine and great generall Point of a Continuall Infallible Uisible Church in which that Lady required satisfaction and that therefore this third Conference was held It may hereby appeare that the most materiall both Points and Proofes are upon the matter the very same in all the three Conferences though little bee related of the second Conference by A. C. as appeares in the Preface of the Publisher VV. I. to the Reader So this tends to nothing but Ostentation and shew The Other is that Whereas these men boast so much of their Cause and their Ability to defend it It cannot but appeare by this and their handling of other Points in Divinity that they labour indeed but no otherwise then like an Horse in a Mill round about in the same Circle no farther at night then at noone The same thing over and over againe from Tu es Petrus to Pasce oves from thou art Peter to Do thou feed my Sheepe And backe againe the same way F. The Lady asked Whether she might be saved in the Protestant Faith Vpon my soule said the Bishop you may Vpon my soule said I there is but one saving Faith and that is the Romane B. So it seems I was confident for the Faith professed § 38 in the Church of England els I would not have taken the salvation of another upon my soule And sure I had reason of this my Confidence For to believe the Scripture and the Creeds to believe these in the sense of the Ancient Primitive Church To receive the foure great Generall Councels so much magnified by Antiquity To believe all Points of Doctrine generally received as Fundamentall in the Church of Christ is a Faith in which to live and die cannot but give salvation And therefore I went upon a sure ground in the adventure of my soule upon that Faith Besides in all the Points of Doctrine that are contioverted betweene us I would faine see any one Point maintained by the Church of England that can be proved
A. C. p. 72. namely the Faith of the Romane Church may Therefore with A. C ' s. leave I will venture my salvation upon the Rule aforesaid and not trouble my selfe to seeke another of mans making to the forsaking or weakening of this which God hath given me For I know they Committed two Evills which forsooke the Fountaine of Living Waters to hew out to themselves Cisternes broken Cisternes that can hold no VVater Ier. 2. For Ier. 2. 13. here 's the Evill of Desertion of that which was right and the Evill of a bad Choise of that which is hew'd out with much paines and care and is after Vselesse and Vnprofitable But then Thirdly I finde that a Romanist may make use of an Implicite Faith at his pleasure but a Protestant must know all these things Infallibly that 's A. C s. word Know these things Why but is it not enough to believe them Now God forbid What shall become of Millions of poore Christians in the world which cannot know all these things much lesse know them Infallibly Well I would not have A. C. weaken the Beliefe of poore Christians in this fashion But for things that may be knowne as well as believed nor I nor any other shall need forsake the Scripture to seeke another Rule to direct either our Conscience or our Confidence In the next place A. C. observes That the Iesuite was as confident for his part with this difference that he had sufficient A. C. p. 69. reason of his Confidence but I had not for mine This is said with the Confidence of a Iesuite but as yet but said Therefore he goes on and tels us That the Iesuite A. C. p. 70. had reason of hâ—…s Confidence out of expresse Scriptures and Fathers and the Infallible Authority of the Church Now truly Expresse Scriptures with A. C s. patience he hath not named one that is expresse nor can he And the few Scriptures which he hath alledged I have * §. 25. N. 5. §. 33. Confid 3. N. 1. Answered and so have others As for Fathers hee hath named very few and with what successe I leave to the Readers judgement And for the Authority of the Catholike Church I hold it a §. 21. N. 5. as Infallible as he and upon better Grounds but not so of a Generall Councell which he here meanes as appeares b A. C. p. 71. after And for my part I must yet thinke and I doubt A. C. will not be able to disprove it that expresse Scripture and Fathers and the Authority of the Church will rather be found proofes to warrant my Confidence then his Yea but A. C. saith That I did not then taxe the Iesuite with any A. C. p. 70. rashnesse It may be so Nor did he me So there we parted even Yea but he saith again that Iacknowledge there is but one saving Faith and that the Lady might be saved in the Romane faith which was all the Iesuite tooke upon his soule Why but if this be all I will confesse it again The first That there is but one faith I confesse with S. Paul Esphes 4. And the other that the Lady might be Ephes. 4. 5. saved in the Romane Faith or Church * §. 35. N. 1. I confesse with that charity which S. Paul teacheth me Namely to leave all men especially the weaker both sex and sort which hold the Foundation to stand or fall to their owne Master Rom. 4. And this is no mistaken charity As for Rom. 14. 4. the Inference which you would draw out of it that 's answered at large †§. 35. N. 2. A. C. p. 70. already But then A. C. addes that I say but without any proofe that the Romanists have many dangerous errours but that I neither tell them which they be nor why I think them dangerous but that I leave them to looke to their owne soules which he sayes they doe and have no cause to doubt How much the Iesuite and A. C. have said in this Conference without any solid proofe I againe submit to judgement as also what proofes I have made If in this very place I have added none 't is because I had made proofe enough of the selfe samething a §. 33. N. 12 §. 35. N. 7. before Where lest hee should want and call for proofe againe I have plainly laid together some of the many Dangerous errours which are charged upon them So I tell you which at least some of which they be and their very naming will shew their danger And if I did remit you to looke to your own soules I hope there was no offence in that if you doe it and do it so that you have no cause to doubt And the reason why you doubt not A. C. tels us is Because A. C. p. 70. you hâ—…d no new devise of your owne or any other mens nor any thing contrary to Scripture but all most conformable to Scriptures interpreted by Vnion Consent of Fathers and Definitions of Councels Indeed if this were true you had little cause to doubt in point of your Beliefe But the Truth is you doe hold new devises of your owne which the Primitive Church was never acquainted with And some of those so farre from being conformable as that they are little lesse then contradictory to Scripture In which particulars and divers others the Scriptures are not interpreted by Vnion or Consent of Fathers or Definitions of Councels unlesse perhaps by some late Councels packed of purpose to doe that ill service I have given instances enough * §. 33. N 12. § 35 N. 7. before yet some you shall have here lest you should say againe that I affirme without proofe or Instance a Conc. Lateran can 1. I pray then whose devise was b Conc. Constan. Sess. 13. transubstantiation And whose Communion under one kinde †Propter Haeresin Rex non solum Regno privatur sed filii ejus à Regni successione pelluntur Simanca Cathol Instit. tit 9. §. 259. Absoluti sunt Subditi a Debito fidâ—…litatis Et custodes arcium c. Ibid. tit 46. §. 73. It was stifly avowed not long since by That no man could thew any one Romane Catholike of note and learning that affirmed it lawfull to kill Kings upon any pretext whatsoever Now surely he that sayes as Romanists doe that 't is lawfull to Depose a King sayes upon the matter 't is lawfull to kill him For Kings doe not use to be long-lived after their Deposition And they selâ—…ome stay till griefe breake their hearts They have Assassinates ready to make thorter worke But since he is so confident I le give him an Author of note and very Learned that speakes it out Rex debet occidi si solicitet populum colere Idola vel deserere Legem Dei. Tostat in 2 Sam. c. 11. q. 17. And he makes bold with Scripture to prove it Deut. 13. And
known unto us by the Infallible Authority of the Church of God that is of men Infallibly assisted by the Spirit of God as all lawfully called continued and confirmed Generall Councels are assisted That the whole Church §. 21. Nu. 5. of God is infallibly assisted by the Spirit of God so that it cannot by any error fall away totally from Christ the Foundation I make no doubt For if it could the gates of hell had prevailed against it which our Saviour assures me S. Matth. 16. they shall never be able to doe Matth. 16. 18. But that all Generall Councels be they never so lawfully called continued and confirmed have Infallible Assistance I utterly deny 'T is true that a Generall Councell de post facto after 't is ended and admitted by the whole Church is then Infallible for it cannot erre in that which it hath already clearely and truly determined without Errour But that a Generall Councell à parte ante when it first sits down and continues to deliberate may truly be said to be Infallible in all its after-determinations whatsoever they shall be I utterly deny And it may be it was not without cunning that A. C. shuffled these words together Called Continued and Confirmed for be it never so lawfully called and continued it may erre But after 't is confirmed that is admitted by the whole Church then being found true it is also Infallible that is it deceives no man For so all Truth is and is to us when 't is once knowne to be Truth But then many times that Truth which being known is necessary and Infallible was before both contingent and fallible in the way of proving it and to us And so here a Generall Councell is a most probable but yet a fallible way of inducing Truth though the Truth once induced may be after 't is found necessary and Infallible And so likewise the very Councell it selfe for that particular in which it hath concluded Truth But A. C. must both speake and meane of a Councell set downe to deliberate or els he sayes nothing Now hence A. C. gathers That though everything defined to be a Divine Truth in Generall Councels is not absolutely A. C. p. 71. necessary to be expresly knowne and actually believed as some other Truths are by all sorts yet no man may after knowledge that they are thus defined doubt deliberately much lesse obstinately deny the Truth of any thing so defined Well in this Collection of A. C. First we have this granted That every thing defined in Generall Councels is not absolutely necessary to be expresly knowne and actually believed by all sorts of men And this no Protestant that I know denies Secondly it is affirmed that after knowledge that these Truths are thus defined no man may doubt deliberately much lesse obstinately deny any of them Truly Obstinately as the word is now in common use carries a fault along with it And it ought to be farre from the temper of a Christian to be obstinate against the Definitions of a Generall Councell But that he may not upon very probable grounds in an humble and peaceable manner deliberately doubt yea and upon Demonstrative grounds constantly deny even such Definitions yet submitting himselfe and his grounds to the Church in that or another Councell is that which was never till now imposed upon Believers For 't is one thing for a man deliberately to doubt and modestly to propose his Doubt for satisfaction which was ever lawfull and is many times necessary And quite an other thing for a man upon the pride of his owne Iudgement * S. 32. N. 5. to refuse externall Obedience to the Councell which to doe was never Lawfull nor can ever stand with any Government For there is all the reason in the world the Councell should be heard for it selfe as well as any such Recusant whatsoever and that before a Iudge as good as it selfe at least And to what end did †S. Aug. L. 2. de Bapt. cont Donat c. 3. Ipsaque plenaria sape priora à posterioribus emendari S. Augustine say That one Generall Councell might be amended by another the former by the Later if men might neither denie nor so much as deliberately doubt of any of these Truths defined in a Generall Councell And A. C. should have done well to have named but one ancient Father of the Primitive Church that ever affirmed this * S. 21. N. 5. For the Assistance which God gives to the whole Church in generall is but in things simply necessary to eternall Salvation therefore more then this cannot be given to a Generall Councell no nor so much But then if a Generall Councell shall forget it selfe and take upon it to define things not absolutely necessary to bee expresly knowne or actually believed which are the things which A. C. here speakes of In these as neither Generall Councell nor the whole Church have infallible Assistance so have Christians liberty modestly and peaceably and upon just grounds both deliberarely to doubt and constantly to deny such the Councels Definitions For instance the Councell of Florence first defined Purgatory to be believed as a Divine Truth and matter of Faith a I know the Greekes subscribed that Councell Sed in illo Concilio Graeca Ecclesiae diu restitit Pet. Mart. Loc. com classe tertiâ c. 9. nu 13. Et in ultimâ Sessione istius Concilii Graeci dixerunt se sine Authoritate totius Ecclesiae Orientalis Quaestionem aliam tractare non posse praeter illam de processione Sp. Sancti Postea verò consentiente Imperatore tractârunt de aliis c. Florent Concil Sess. ult apud Nicolinum To. 4. p. 894. c. This savours of some art to bring in the Greeks Howsoever this showes enough against Bellarmine That all the Greekes did not constantly teach Purgatory as he assirms L. 1. de Purgat c. 11. §. De tertio modo if that Councell had Consent enough so to define it This was afterwards deliberately doubted of by the Protestants after this as constantly denied then confirmed by the b Con. Trid. Sess. 25. in Bullâ Pii 4. super formà Iuramenti professionis Fidei Councell of Trent and an Anathema set upon the head of every man that denies it And yet scarce any Father within the first three hundred yeares ever thought of it I know a Omnes veteres Graeci Latini ab ipso tempore ApostoleruÌ„ constanter docuerunt Purgatorium esse Bel. L. 1. de Purg. c 11 §. De tertio modo Bâ—…llarmine affirmes it boldly That all the Fathers both Greeke and Latine did constantly teach Purgatory from the very Apostles times And where he brings his Proofs out of the Fathers for this Point he divides them into two Rancks b Bel. Lib 1 de Purg c 6 §. 1. In the first he reckons them which affirme Prayer for the dead as if that must necessarily inferre Purgatory Whereas
comes this short of Bâ—…asphemy to make the Trinity and Pâ—…y things alike and equally Credible Yea but A. C. will give you a Reason why no man may 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 much lesse deny any thing that A C. â—…7 is defiâ—…ed by a Generall Councell And his Reason is Because every such doubt and denyall is a breach from the one saving faith This is a very good reason if it bee true But how appeares it to be true How why it takes away saith A. C. Infallible credit from the Church and so the Divine Revelation being not sufficiently applyed it cannot according A. C. p. 71. to the ordinary course of Gods providence breed Infallible Beliefe in us VVhy but deliberately to douâ—…t and constantly to deny upon the grounds and in the manner * §. 38. N. 15. aforesaid doth not take away Infallible credit from the whole Church but onely from the Definition of a Generall Councell some way or other missed And that in things not absolutely Necessary to all mens salvation For of such things †Though every Thing Defined to bee a Divine Truth in Generall Councels is not absolutely necessary to bee expresly known and actually believed by all sorts c. A. C. p. 71. A. C. here speakes expresly Now to take away Infallible credit from some Definitions of Generall Councels in things not absolutely necessary to salvation is no breach upon the one saving faith which is necessary nor upon the Credit of the Catholike Church of Christ in things absolutely necessary for which onely it had Infallible Assistance promised So that no breach being made upon the faith nor no credit which ever it had being taken from the Church the Divine Revelation may bee and is as sufficiently applyed as ever it was and in the ordinary course of Gods providence may breed as Infallible beliefe in things necessary to salvation as ever it did But A. C. will proove his Reason before given and therefore hee askes us out of Saint Paul A. C. p. 71. Rom. 10. How shall men believe unlesse they heare How shall they heare without a Preacher And how shall they Rom. 10. 14. 15. preach to wit Infallibly unlesse they bee sent that is from God and infallibly assisted by his Spirit Here 's that which I have twise at least spoken to already namely That A. C. by this will make every Priest in the Church of Rome that hath Learning enough to preach and dissents not from that Church an Infallible Preacher which no Father of the Primitive Church did ever assume to himselfe nor the Church give him And yet the Fathers of the Primitive Church were sent and from God were assisted and by God and did sufficiently propose to men the Divine Revelation and did by it beget and breed up Faith saving Faith in the Soules of men Though * Aliâ—…s ab 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Se ripâ—… 〈◊〉 legâ—… 〈◊〉 saâ—…ctitate 〈◊〉 prapoâ—… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ver 〈◊〉 pâ—…teÌ„ 〈◊〉 ipsi ita 〈◊〉 vel scripsâ—… Tho. 〈◊〉 q 1. A. 8. ad 2. Ex S. Aug. Ep. 19. Miâ—…i 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Demonstr 〈◊〉 accipias ex saâ—…ris Liâ—…eris S. Cyril 〈◊〉 Caâ—… 4. no one among them since the Apostles was an Infallible Preacher And A. C. should have done very well here to have made it manifest That this Scripture How shall they preach to wit Infallibly is so interpreted by Union Consent of Fathers and Definitions of Councels as hee a A. C. p. 70. bragged before that they use to interpret Scripture For I doe not finde How shall they Preach to wit †〈◊〉 Apostoli 〈◊〉 possunt intelligi ae Fide infusa illa 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a Deocreata est non est ex 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 haec apertissimè colligitur ex Bâ—… 3. sent D. 23 q. 2. A. 2. Conclus 1. Ergo Fides acquisiea necessaria est â—…d sed prater Acquisitam Infusa etiam requiritur non solum propter Intentionem Act us sedetiam propter Assensum Certâ—…nern Quia non potest esse firmus Assensus à Fide acquisita Quia per cam nullus credit alicui nisi 〈◊〉 scit posse fâ—…lli fallers licet credâ—… cum non Uelle fallere Scotus in 3. sent D. 23. q. unica Therefore in the judgement of your owne Schoole your Preachers can both deceive and be deceived And therefore certainly are not Infallible And M. Canus very expresly makes this but an Introduction to Infallible faith Primum ergo id statno juxta Commâ—…em Legem aliqua exterior a humâ—…a inciâ—…â—…ta 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 esse 〈◊〉 ad Evangelii fidem 〈◊〉 Quomodo enim crâ—…nt ei quem non audierâ—…t c. Canus L. 2. de Lâ—…is c. 8. §. Primum ergo Et iterum St Fides infusa ita Fidei acquisitae niteretur tanquam suo fundamento ipsum Fundamentum Fiaâ—… nostra non esset Divina sed Humana Veritas Ibid § Cut tertium Therefore surely A. C. abâ—…ses this place of the Apostle very boldly Infallibly to bee the Comment of any one of the Fathers or any other approved Author And let him shew it if he can After this for I see the good man is troubled and forward and backward he goes he fals immediately A. C. p. 7â—… upon this Question If a whole generall Councell defining what is Divine Truth be not believed to be sent and assisted by Gods Spirit and consequently of Infallible Credit what man in the World can bee said to bee of Infallible Credit Well first A. C. hath very ill lucke in fitting his Conclusion to his Premises and his Consequent to his Antecedent And so 't is here with him For a Generall Councell may be assisted by God's Spirit and in a great measure too and in a greater then any private man not inspired and yet not consequently be of Inâ—… Credit for all assistance of God's Spirit reaches not up to Infallibility I hope the Ancient Bishops and Fathers of the Primitive Church were assisted by God's Spirit and in a plentifull measure too and yet A. C. himselfe will not say they were Infallible And secondly for the Question itselfe If a Generall Councell be not what man in the world can be said to be of Infallible Credit Truly I 'le make you a ready Answer No man Not the Pope himselfe No Let God and his word be true and every man a lyer Rom. 3. for so more or lesse every man will Rom. 3. 4. be found to be And this is neither dammage to the Church nor wrong to the person of any But then A. C. asks a shrewder Question then this If such a Councell lawfully called continued and confirmed A. C. p. 71. may erre in defining any one Divine Truth how can we be Infallibly certaine of any other Truth defined by it For if §. 10. N. 15. it may erre in one why not in another and another and so in all 'T is most true if such a Councell may erre in one it may
certaine and believe that nothing of this is lawfull out of the Catholike Church And that of Baptisme which is but One we are the Head where he himselfe was at first Baptized when hee held the Ground and Verity of Divine Vnity Now I conceive 't is all one or at least as Argumentative to all purposes to be Caput or Radix Baptismatis Head or Root of Baptisme as Head or Root of the Church For there 's but One Baptisme as well as but One Church and that is the entrance into this And S. Cyprian affirmes and includes himselfe Nos esse Caput that we are the Head of Baptisme Where yet I pray observe it he cannot by Nos We meane his own Person though if he did he were the more Opposite to Rome much lesse can he meane the Romane Church as it is a Particular and stands separate from others For then how could he say Nos esse Caput that we are the Head Therefore he must needs meane the Vnity and Society of the Church Catholike which the Novatians had then left and wherof he and his Church were still members Besides most manifest it is that he cals that Church Caput Baptismatis the Head of Baptisme where Novatian was Baptized they are his own words and probable it is that was Rome Because that Schismatick was a Romane Priest And yet for all this S. Cyprian sayes Nos esse Caput Baptismatis that we are the Head of Baptisme though he were at Carthage By which it is plain That as Caput is paralell to Radix and Matrix So also that by Caput the head of Baptisme he includes together with Rome all the other members of the Church Vniversall Again S. * Elaborarent ut ad Catholica Ecclesiae unit ateÌ„ scissi corpores membra componerent Christianae Charitatis vinculuÌ„ copularent Sed quoniam diversae partis obstinata inflexibilis pertina iâ—… non tantum radicis Matris sinum atque complexum recusavit sed etiam gliscente in pejus recrudescente discordiâ Episcopum sibi constituit c. S. Cyprian L. 2. Epist. 10. Cyprian writes to Cornelius and censures the schismaticall Cariage of the Novatians at Rome And tels him farther that he had sent Caldonius and Fortunatus to labour Peace in that Church that so they might be reduced to and composed in the Vnity of the Catholike Church But because the Obstinate and inflexible pertinacy of the other Party had not only refused Radicis Matris sinum the bosome of their Mother and embracings of their Root but the Schisme increasing and growing raw to the worse hath set up a Bishop to it selfe c. Where 't is observable and I think plaine That S. Cyprian imployed his Legats not to bring the Catholike Church to the communion of Rome but Rome to the Catholike Church Or to bring the Novatians not only to Communicate with Cornelius but with the Church Vniversall which was therefore Head and Root in S. Cyprian's judgement even to Rome it self as well as to all other Great Ancient or even Apostolicall Churches And this is yet more plaine by the sequell For when those his Legats had laboured to bring those Schismaticks to the Vnity of the Catholike Church yet he complaines their Labour was lost And why Why because recusabant Radicis Matris sinum they refused the Bosome of the Root and the Mother Therefore it must needs be that in S. Cyprian's sense these two Vnitas Catholicae Ecclesiae the unity of the Catholike Church And Radicis or Matricis Sinus or Complexus the Bosome or Embracing of the Root or the Mother are all one And then Radix and Matrix are not words by which he Expresses the Romane Sea in particular but he denotes by them the Unity of the Church Catholike Fourthly Because * Tâ—… at tanta Ecclesia Vna est illa ab Apostolis prima ex quà Omnes Sic omnes 〈◊〉 omnes Apostolica dumunam omnes probant Vnitatem Tert de praes advers 〈◊〉 c. 20. Porro Vnam esse primam Apostolicam ex quâ reliquae Hanc nulli let a assigit B. Rhenanus Annot. in Argumento Tertul de praescript c. Nulli loco Therefore not at Rome But these words Hanc nulli loco assigit deleantur sayes the Spanish Inquisition upon Rhenanus printed at Madrid An 1584. Tertullian seemes to mee to agree in the same sense For saith he these so many and great Churches founded by the Apostles taken all of them together are that One Church from the Apostles out of which are All. So all are First and all Apostolike while they all allow and prove Vnam Vnitatem One Vnity Nor can any possibly understand this of any Particular Church but subordinately As S. Gregory Nazian sayes the Church of Caesarea was a Gregory Naz. sâ—… the Church of Casaria was Mater prope omniâ—… Ecclesiarum Epist. 18. Mater the Mother of almost all Churches which must needs be understood of some Neighbouring Churches not of the whole Catholike Church And where b Pamel in Tertul de praescript advers Haeres c. 21. Nu. 129. Pamelius speakes of Originall and Mother Churches he names six and others and Rome in the last place Therfore certainly no Particular Church can bee the Root or Matrix of the Catholike But she is rooted in her own Vnity downe from the Apostles and no where els extra Deum And this is farther manifest by the Irreligious act of the Emperor Adrian For he intending to root out the faith of Christ took this course Hee Consecrated Simulacrum Iovis the Image of Iupiter in the very place where Christ suffer'd and prophaned Bethlehem with the Temple of Adonis c Vi quasi Radix FundamentuÌ„ Ecclesiae tolleretur si in iis locis Iaâ—…la colerentur in quibus Christus natus est c. S. Paulinus Epist. 〈◊〉 ad Seâ—…um To this end that the Root as it were and the foundation of the Church might be taken away if in those places Idols might bee worshiped in which Christ himself was born and suffered c. By which it is most evident That either Ierusalem was the Root of the Catholike Church if any Particular Church were so Or rather that Adrian was deceived as being an Heathen he well might in that he thought the Vniversall Church had any particular or Locall Root of its Being Or that he could destroy it all by laying it wast in any one place whatsoever And S. Augustine I think is full for this That the Catholike Church must have a Catholike Root or Matrix too For * Hareses omnes de illà 〈◊〉 tanquam 〈◊〉 tainutilia de Vite praeâ—… 〈◊〉 autem maner 〈◊〉 Radice suâ c. S. Aug. de lymb ad Catechumer L. 1. c. 6. he tels us That all Heresies whatsoever went out de illâ out of the Catholike Church For de illâ there can be out of no other For all Heresies
this Pope which now sits or any other that hath beene or shall be is Infallible For he is not Infallible unlesse he be Pope and he is not Pope unlesse he be in Holy Orders And he cannot be so unlesse he have received those Holy Orders and that from one that had Power to Ordaine And those Holy Orders in your Doctrine are a Sacrament And a Sacrament is not perfectly given if he that Administers it have not intentionem faciendi quod facit Ecclesia an intention to doe that which the Church doth by Sacraments Now who can possibly tell that the Bishop which gave the Pope Orders was first a man qualified to give them and secondly so devoutly set upon his Worke that he had at the Instant of giving them an Intention and purpose to doe therein as the Church doth Surely none but that Bishop himselfe And his testimony of himselfe and his owne Act such especially as if faulty he would be loth to Confesse can neither give Knowledge nor Beliefe sufficient that the Pope according to this Canon is in Holy Orders So upon the Whole matter let the Romanists take which they will I give them free choyce either this Canon of the Councell of Trent is false Divinity and there is no such Intention necessary to the Essence and Being of a Sacrament Or if it be true it is impossible for any man to know and for any advised man to Believe That the Pope is Infallible in â—…is Iudiciall Sentences in things belonging to the Faith And so here againe a Generall Councell at least such an One as that of Trent is can Erre or the Pope is not Infallible But this is an Argument ad Hominem good against your Partie onely which maintaine this Councâ—…ll But the plaine Truth is Both are Errours For neither is the Bishop of Rome Infallible in his Iudicialls about the Faith Nor is this Intention of either Bishop or Priest of Absolute Necessity to the Essence of a Sacrament so as to make void the gracious Institution of Christ in case by any Tentation the Priests Thoughts should wander from his Worke at the Instant of using the Essentials of a Sacrament or have in him an Actuall Intention to scorne the Church And you may remember if you please that a Neopolitan †Minorensis Episcopus suit Bishop then present at Trent disputed this Case very learnedly and made it most evident that this Opinion cannot be defended but that it must open a way for any unworthy Priest to make infinite Nullities in Administration of the Sacraments And his Arguments were of such strength * L 2. Hist. Trident p 276. 277. Lâ—…idae An. 1622 ut caeteros Theologos dederint in stuporem as amazed the other Divines which were present And concluded That no Internall Intention was required in the Minister of a Sacrament but that Intention which did appeare Opere externo in the VVorke it selfe performed by him And that if hee had unworthily any wandring thoughts nay more any contrary Intention within him yet it neither did nor could hinder the blessed effect of any Sacrament And most certaine it is if this be not true besides all other Inconveniences which are many no man can secure himselfe upon any Doubt or trouble in his Conscience that he hath truly and really beene made partaker of any Sacrament whatsoever No not of Baptisme and so by Consequence be left in Doubt whether he be a Christian or no even after he is Baptised Wheras 't is most impossible That Christ should so order his Sacraments and so leave them to his Church as that poore Believers in his Name by any unworthinesse of any of his Priests should not be able to know whether they have received His Sacraments or not even while they have received them And yet for all this such great lovers of Truth and such Carefull Pastors over the Flock of Christ were these Trent Fathers that they regarded none of this but went on in the usuall track and made their Decree for the Internall Intention and purpose of the Priest and that the Sarcament was invalid without it Nay one Argument more there is and from your owne Grounds too that makes it more then manifest That the Pope can erre not Personally only but Iudicially also and so teach false Doctrine to the Church which a Summus Pontifâ—… quum 〈◊〉 Ecclesiam â—…ct in his quae al Fidem pertinent nullo casu â—…rrare potest Bel. l. 4. De Ro. Pâ—…t c. 3. §. 1. Bellarmine tels us No Pope hath done or can doe And a Maxime it is with you That a Generall Councell can erre if it be not confirmed by the Pope b Concilia Genâ—…ralia à Pontifiâ—… Consirmata 〈◊〉 non possunt 〈◊〉 L. 2. de Con. c. 2. §. 1. But if it be confirmed then it cannot erre Where first this is very improper Language For I hope no Councell is Confirmed till it be finished And when 't is finished even before the Popes Confirmation be put to it either it hath Erred or not erred If it have Erred the Pope ought not to Confirme it and if he do t is a void Act. For no power can make falshood Truth If it have not Erred then it was True before the Pope Confirmed it So his Confirmation addes nothing but his owne Assent Therefore his Confirmation of a Generall Councell as you will needs call it is at the most Signum non Causa A Signe and that such as may faile but no Cause of the Councels not Erring But then secondly if a Generall Councell Confirmed as you would have it by the Pope have Erred and so can Erre then certainly the Pope can Erre Iudicially For he never gives a more solemne Sentence for Truth then when he Decrees any thing in a Generall Councell Therefore if he have Erred and can Erre there then certainly he can Erre in his Definitive Sentence about the Faith and is not Infallible Now that he hath Erred and therefore can Erre in a Generall Councell Confirmed in which he takes upon him to teach all Christendome is most cleere and evident For the Pope teaches in and by the a Conc. Lateran Can. 1. Councell of Lateran Confirmed by Innocent the third Christ is present in the Sacrament by way of Transubstantiation And in and by the b Concil Constan Sess. 13. Councell of Constance the Administration of the Blessed Sacrament to the Laity in one kinde notwithstanding Christs Institution of it in both kindes for all And in and by the c Concil Trid. Sess. 25. Decret de Invotatione Councell of Trent Invocation of Saints and Adoration of Images to the great Scandall of Christianity and as great hazard of the Weake Now that these Particulars among Many are Errours in Divinity and about the Faith is manifest both by Scripture and the Iudgement of the Primitive Church For Transubstantiation first That was never heard of in the Primitive Church nor
till the Councell of Lateran nor can it bee prooved out of Scripture And taken properly cannot stand with the Grounds of Christ an Religion As for Communion in one kinde Christs Institution is cleere against that And not onely the Primitive Church but the VVhole Church of Christ kept it so till within lesse then foure hundred yeares For a Provide in quibusdam Ecclâ—…siis obserâ—…tur ut Populo Sanguis non detur Tâ—…om p. 3. q. So. A. 12. c. So it was 〈◊〉 in some Churches in his time Negare non possumus etiam in Ecclesiâ Latiná suisse usum utriusque speciâ—…i usque ad tempora S. Thomae durasse Uasqu in 3. Disput. 216. c. 3. n. 38. Aquinas confesses it was so in use even to his times And he was both borne and dead during the Raigne of Henry the third of England Nay it stands yet as a Monument in the very b Refecti cibo potuque coelesti Deus noster Te supplices exoramus c. In Proprio Missarum de Sanctis Ianua 15. Orat post Communionem Et Ianua 21. Missall against the present Practice of the Church of Rome That then it was usually Given and received in both kindes And for Invocation of Saints though some of the Ancient Fathers have some Rhetoricall flourishes about it for the stirring up of Devotion as they thought yet the Church then admitted not of the Invocation of them but only of the Commemoration of the Martyrs as appeares cleerely in c Ad quod Sacrificium suo loco Ordine Homines Dei nominantur non tamen à Sacerdote qui Sacrificat Invocantur S. Aug. L. 22. Civ Dei c. 10. S. Augustine And when the Church prayed to God for any thing she desired to be heard for the Mercies and the Merits of Christ not for the Merits of any Saints whatsoever For I much doubt this were to make the Saints more then Mediators of Intercession which is all that d Bellarm. L. 1. De Sanâ—…r Beatitud c. 20. §. Ad primum ergo locum c. you will acknowledge you allow the Saints For I pray is not by the Merits more then by the Intercession Did not Christ redeeme us by his Merits And if God must heare our Prayers for the Merits of the Saints how much fall they short of sharers in the e Sunt Redemptores nostri aliquo modo secundùm aliquid Bellar. L 1. De Indulgen c. 4. Et Sanctos appellat Numina L. 2. de Imagin Sanctorum c. 20. § 3. Now if this word Numen signifie any thing else besides God himselfe or the power of God or the Oracle of God let Bellarmine shew it or A. C. for him Mediation of Redemption You may thinke of this For such Prayers as these the Church of Rome makes at this day and they stand not without great scandall to Christ and Christianity used and authorized to be used in the Missall For instance f Ut ejus Meritis Precibus a Gehennae Incendiiâ—… liberemur In proprio Missarum de Sanctis Decemb. 6 Vpon the Feast of S. Nicolas you pray That God by the Merits and Prayers of S. Nicolas would deliver you from the fire of Hell And upon the Octaves of S. Peter and S. Paul a Ut Amborum Meritis aternitatis Glâ—…riam consequamur Iâ—…id Julii 6. you desire God That you may Obtaine the Glory of Eternity by their Merits And on the b Ejus intercedentibus Meritis ab Omnibus nos absolve peccatis Ibid. Julii 14 Feast of S. Bonaventure you pray that God would absolve you from all your sinnes by the Interceding Merits of Bonaventure And for Adoration of Images the c In Optatus his time the Christians were much troubled upon but a false report That an Image was to be placed upon the Altar What would they have done if Adoration had been Commanded c. Et rectè dictum or at fi talem samam similis veritas sequeretur Optatus L. 3. ad finem Ancient Church knew it not And the Moderne Church of Rome is too like to Paganisme in the Practice of it and driven to scarce Intelligible Subtilties in her Servants Writings that defend it And this without any Care had of Millions of Soules unable to understand her Subtilties or shun her Practice Did I say the Moderne Church of Rome is grown too like Paganisme in this Point And may this Speech seeme too hard Well if it doe I 'll give a double Account of it The One is 'T is no harsher Expression then They of Rome use of the Protestants and in Cases in which there is no shew or Resemblance For d Sicut non licet cum Ethnitis Idela colere Becan L. de fide Haret ferâ—…anda c. 8. Becanus tels us 'T is no more lawfull to receive the Sacrament as the Calvinists receive it then 't is to worship Idols with the Ethnicks And Gregory de Valentia inlarges it to more Points then one but with no more truth The Sectaries of our times e Contingit aliquando Hareticos circa plura errare quam Gentiles ut Manichaos inquit Thomas Quòd nos possumus verâ—… dicere de nostri temporis Sectariis qui culpabiliter in pluribus videntur errare Valentia in 2. 2 ae Disp. 1. Q. 10. Puncto 3. saith he seeme to Erre culpably in more things then the Gentiles This is easily said but here 's no Proofe Nor shall I hold it a sufficient warrant for me to sower my Language because these men have dipped their Pens in Gall. The other Account therefore which I shall give of this speech shall come vouched both by Authority and Reason And first for Authority I could set Luâ—…o vicus Vives against Becanus if I would who layes expresly That the making of Feasts at the Oratories of the Martyrs which a Quod quidem à Christianis melioribus non sit S. Aug. L. 8. de Civ Dei c. 27. S. Augustine tels us The best Christians practised not are a kinde of b Illae quasi Parentalia superstitioni Gentilium simillima Lud Vives Ibid. Parentalia Funerall Feasts too much resembling the superstition of the Gentiles Nay Vives need not say resembling that superstition since c Quod ergo mortuis litabatur utique parentationi deput abatur quae species proinde Idololatriâ—… est quoniam Idololatria Parentationis est species Tertull. L. de Spectaculis c. 12. Tertullian tels us plainely that Idolatry it selfe is but a kinde of Parentation And Vives dying in the Communion of the Church of Rome is a better testimony against you then Becanus or Valentia being bitter enemies to our Communion can be against us But I 'le come nearer home to you and prove it by more of your owne For d Manifestius est quà m ut multis verbis explicari debeat Imaginum simulachrorum Cultum nimiùm invaluisse affectioni seu potiùs superstitioni populi
worke for my pen it seemes A. C. will not say 't is a worke b And yet before in this Conference apud A. C. pag. 42. the Iesuitè whom he defends hath said it expresly That all those points are Fundamentall which are necessary to salvation for his But he tels us * A. C. p. 72. 'T is to be learned of the One Holy Catholike Apostolike alwaies Visible and Infallible Romane Church Titles enough given to the Romane Church and I wish she deserved them all for then we should have peace But 't is farre otherwise One she is as a particular Church but not The One. Holy she would be counted but the world may see if it will not blinde it self of what value Holinesse is in that Court and Countrey Catholike she is not in any sense of the word for she is not the c Romana Ecclesia particularis Bellar. L. 4. de Ro. Pout c. 4. §. 1. Catholica autem est illae quae diffusa est per universum Orbem S. Cyril Hieroâ—…ol Cetech 18. Universall and so not Catholike in extent Nor is shee sound in Doctrine and in things which come neare upon the Foundation too so not a Catholica enim dicitur Ecclesia illa quae universalitèr docet sine ullo dâ—…ctu vel differentia dogmatum S. Cyril Hierolol Catech 18. Unde Augustinus subscripsit se Episcopum Catholicae Ecclesiae Hipponiregicusis L. 1. de Act is cum Foelice Maniâ—…h c. 20. Ft l 2. c. 1. Et Catholica Alexandrinorum Soz. l. 1. Htst. c. 9. Et l 2. c. 3. And so every particular Church is or may be called Catholike and that truly so long as it teaches Catholike Doctrine In which sense the Particular Romane Church was called Catholike so long as it taught all and onely those things to be De Fide which the Catholike Church it selfe maintain'd But now Rome doth not so Catholike in Beliese Nor is she the Prime Mother Church of Christianity b Supra §. 35. Nu 9. Other Churches beside the Romane are called Matres and Originales Ecelesiae as in Tertul. de praescrip advers hares c. 21. Et Ecclesiae Hiâ—…rosolymitana quae aliarum omnium Mater 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. Theodoret. L. 5 Hist. Eccl. c. 9. ex Lâ—…bello Synodico à Concil Constantinop 2. transmisse ad Concilium sub Damaso tum Romae coactum Et Constantinopolitana Ecclesiae dicitur omnium aliarum Capus Cod. L 1. Tit. 2. Leg. 24. That is not simply of all Churches but of all in that Patriarchate And so Rome is the Head of all in the Romane Patriarchate Ierusalem was that and so not Catholike as a Fountaine or Originall or as the Head or Root of the Catholike And because many Romanists Object here though A. C. doth it not that S. Cyprian called the c 〈◊〉 Ecclesiae Catholike 〈◊〉 Matricem agnâ—…rent tencrent S. Cyp. L. 4. Epist. 8. Romane Church the Root and Matrix of the Catholike Church of Christ I hope I shall have leave to explaine that difficult place also First then S. Cyprian names not Rome That stands onely in the Margiu and was placed there as his particular judgement led d Edit Basiliens 1530. And Simanca also applies this speech of S. Cyprian to Rome ' Tis. 24. §. 17. And to also Pâ—…lius upon this place of S 〈◊〉 But they wrong him him that set out S. Cyprian Secondly the true story of that Epistle and that which led S. Cyprian into this Expression was this Cornelius then chosen Pope expostulates with S. Cyprian That his Letters to Rome were directed onely to the Clergy there and not to Him and takes it ill as if S. Cyprian had thereby seemed to disapprove his Election S. Cyprian replies That by reason of the Schisme moov'd then by Novatian it was uncertaine in Africk which of the Two had the more Canonicall right to the Sea of Rome and that therfore he nam'd him not But yet that during this uncertainty he exhorted all that sailed thither ut Ecclesiae Catholicae Radicem Matricem agnoscerent tenerent That in all their carriage they should acknowledge and so hold themselves unto the Vnity of the Catholike Church which is the Root and Matrix of it and the only way to avoid participation in the Schisme And that this must be S. Cyprian's meaning I shall thus proove First because This could not be his meaning or Intention That the Sea of Rome was the Root or Matrix of the Catholike Church For if hee had told them so hee had left them in as great or greater difficulty then hee found them For there was then an Open and an Apparent Schisme in the Church of Rome Two Bishops Cornelius and Novatian Two Congregations which respectively attended and observed them So that a perplexed Question must needs have divided their thoughts which of these Two had beene that Root and Matrix of the Catholike Church Therefore had S. Cyprian meant to pronounce Rome the Root and Matrix of the Catholike Church hee would never have done it at such a time when Rome it selfe was in Schisme Whereas in the other sense the Counsell is good and plaine Namely That they should hold themselves to the Vnity and Communion of the Catholike Church which is the Roote of it And then necessarily they were to suspend their Communion there till they saw how the Catholike Church did incline to approove or disapproove the Election of the One or the Other And thus S. Cyprian frees himselfe to Cornelius from the very least Touch of Schisme Secondly Because this sense comes home to * Baron Annal. 254. Numb 64. where hee cites this Epistle Baronius For hee affirmes That S. Cyprian and his Colleagues the African Bishops did Communionem suspendere suspend their Communion untill they heard by Caldonius and Fortunatus whose the undoubted right was So it seems S. Cyprian gave that Counsell to these Travellers which himselfe followed For if Rome during the Schisme and in so great uncertainty had yet beene Radix Ecclesiae Catholicae Root of the Catholike Church of Christ I would faine know how S. Cyprian so great and famous an Assertor of the Churches Unity durst once so much as thinke of suspending Communion with her Thirdly Because this sense will be plaine also by other Passages out of other Epistles of S. Cyprian For writing to Iubaianus an Africane Bishop against the Novatians who then infested those parts and durst Rebaptise Catholike Christians he saith thus †Nos autem qui Ecclesiae Unius Caput Radâ—…cem tenemus pro certo scimus credimus nihil extra Ecclesiam licere Baptismatis quod est unum Caput nos esse ubi ipse Baptizatus priùs fuerat quando Divinae Vnitatis Rationem veritateÌ„ tâ—…bat S. Cypr. ad Iubain Epist. 73. Edit Pamel But we who hold the head and Root of One Church doe know for