for his future subsistance Rev. You boast much of the perfection of your Reformation yet were never able to get it approved by any one externe Church of what denomination soever how many or rather how few do vniversally approue it in England appeares by the number of your Sectaryes Schismaticks At what tribunal haue you not beene condemned whereever you appeared The Pope hath anathematized your Reformation so hath the General Council of Trent that Church representatiue This Amphibium this your Anonimous Preist says you appealed to the Church diffusiue which he gathers by the Apologyes you publisht for all men to see But you haue had as ill successe here as at Trent or Rome having never been able to find any one Kingdome or Province or Citty or any considerable number of particular men who in all things approue your Reformation So that you are in this inferiour to the Lutherans to Calvinists to Anabaptists to Adamists nay to Independents Quakers c. Who all haue in several countryes some of their Perswasion but of yours none out of England how many even there owne their vocation to your Reformation more to the Royal Authority than to the force of the Truth you teach or the Beauty of your Church which you commend D. M. p. 63. Prudence obliges him to the same for He can hardly be safe any where beyond seas by joining with vs he will as also find provision for his subsistence which you say you will vndertake shall not be wanting Rev. You sow the fox's skin to that of a Lyon Spiritual motiues falling short you piece them out with Temporal When we call to mind that within these fifty yeares your whole Church was turned out of God's Blessing into the warme sun that within these fiue yeares she was very neere the same fate we may conclude that there is not much greater assurance of your Temporal than of your Spiritual promises Here I obserue two things The first that Temporal motiues are never omitted when there is any hopes of gaining a Proselit Indeed they are your best Card as appeares by your vsing it so frequently by vsing it you shew what weyght it hath with you The second that in this you differ very much from Papists who propose hopes of eternal life indeed but as for this they promise nothing but what Christ promist his Disciples 30.16.32 In mundo pressuram habebitis you shall be hated calumniated persecuted imprisoned Opprest hanged In this world But better all this than to loose your soul by Schisme Heresy D. M. p. 64. It remaines therefore that being obliged to quit the Communion of the Church of Rome joine with ours of England you are obliged to do this speedily c. Rev. All this falls to the ground for there nether is nor can be an obligation to quit the Church of Rome there being an obligation to conforme to her to submit to her devisions in matter of Divine Truths to renounce all errours contrary to the tru Doctrine of Faith which she teachs will teach to the end of the world Imprimatur Act. in Vïc die duodecima May 1683. De Mand. Ampliss ac RR. adm DD. meorum praefat B. D. SECRET DUARUM EPISTOLARUM GEORGII MORLAEI S.T.D. ET EPISCOPI WINTONIENSIS AD IANVM VLITIUM REVISIO In quâ de Orationibus pro Defunctis Sanctorum Invocatione Dijs Gentilium Idololatriâ agitur AVTHORE IOANNE WARNERO S. I. THEOLOGO M.DC.LXXXIII Superiorum Permissu PRAEFATIO DVae istae Epistolae quarum summam tibi hic exhibeo Erudite Lector vná cum responsionibus ad earum singula capita pars sunt Libri ante quinque circiter menses in Angliâ typis editi á Dom. ac Mag. nostro Georgio Morlaeo S. T. D. Oxoniensi ac Episcopo Wintoniensi qui Regem exulem olim secutus inter Catholicos degens aliqua zeli sui pro matre suâ Ecclesiâ Protestanticâ Anglicana specimina dedit cum vivâ voce tum calamo varia Fidei Ortodoxae capita impugnando Quae omnia libro isto continentur additis alijs quae Patriae postliminio restitutus dixit scripsit Adeoque complexus est hoc vno volumine quod cento vocari potest ex varijs tractatibus conflatus nihil praeter odium in Ecclesiam orthodoxam commune habentibus hoc inquam complexus est quidquid longissimo vitae tempore octogenario major est adversus varia Ecclesiae Romanae dogmata improbo labore continuo studio colligere potuit Putabamus bonum Senem contentionum istiusmodi pertaesum cogitare cogitationes Pacis charitatem potius quám schisma promovere malle vnionem inter discordes Ecclesias illi cordi esse quam Prudentiores multi ex illâ sectâ aut seriò aut simulatè optant Et quidem aetas ingravescens planè capularis vt receptui caneret suadebat turpe fenex miles Cum ecce subitò nemine de certamine ab illo futuro cogitante in arenam descendit seniles lacertos juveniliter jactat de victorijs praeteritis sibi gratulatur easque ita praedicat vt non senili Prudentiâ sed juvenili levitate sortis humanae propriae infirmitatis parùm memor novas laureas futurosque triumphos sibi polliceri videatur Quominus cum hac in re imiter facit rerum humanarum incertitudo propria infirmitas quas prae oculis semper habeo Quo facilius judicium ferat Lector Eximii Domini argumenta ipsiusmet verbis expresla meis responsionibus praemitto non sum mihi conscius me vspiam eorum vim dissimulasse An planè ijs satisfecerjm iudicent alij Novi hominum studia suos cuiquam affectus haud ita facilè avelli nec incompertum quantam isti vim habeant ad judicium inflectendum ne dicam corrumpendum Hinc in causâ nostrâ non praejudico neque veluti de partâ victoriâ in antecessum glorior haud tamen exiguam spem in sinu foveo ex bonitate causae ex assistentiâ Spiritus Sancti Ecclesiae promissâ ex tuâ Lector veritatis amice humanitate responsiones nostras Eruditis aequis Iudicibus à partium studio liberis probatum iri Docet nos Epistolarum Auctor eximius eas ante viginti quatuor annos fuisse scriptas quia posterior data est anno MDCLIX in lucem prodiit tantum hoc anno MDCLXXXIII Vnde non ad novem annos tantum vt consulit Poeta sed ferè ad ter novem eas penes se retinuit Ego verò ne quidem totidem dies ad responsa concinnanda impendi licet variis interea temporis aliis implicarer occupationibus illa siquidem auspicatus sum XI Aprilis I. Maji absolvi Quod non ita accipi velim quasi laudem aliquam ex festinato opere sperem quod novi ancipitis esse ad laudem vituperium aestimationis sed vt ostendam nullam in iis Epistolis
Church doctrine which is the only thing we enjoin So you are inexcusable Indeed these reproaches of errours are not the cause but the effect of your separation For out of loue to dear lyberty you resolved to renounce all subjection to Christ's vicar vpon earth then to secure this you resolved to separate from his Communion by a Schisme to justify this Schisme these pretexts were invented And by a just judgment of God the disobedient children of your Church haue meeted you the same mesure framed in your bosome another Schisme on the same pretences You say 2. Our excommunicating you was the cause of the Schisme so the causal Schisme is on our side But this is far from satisfiying any thinking man who calls to mind that you had forced the excommunication by precedent justifyed it by subsequent crimes Before any sentence was pronounced against you you had broke the interiour Communion with the Church by altering Faith the exteriour Communion by renouncing obedience to the Head of the Church so the Excommunication was subsequent to the Schisme what did the Reformation begun before but perfected after that clap of thunder Erection of one Altar against another or rather destruction of all Altars profanation of Churchs robbery of all sacred vessels ornaments pursuing with fire sword these who for conscience sake remained in the Catholick Communion Now what hopes of salvation left None vnlesse Schism sacriledge rapine CALVMNY PERIVRY MVRTHER Heresy be venial sins though vnrepented leaue hopes of salvation For the guilt of all these many more ye haue contracted since your separation from the center of Ecclesiastical Communion So your debt contracted by the separation is great but your following demeanour hath enflamed your reckoning to a prodigious summe not to be discharged with any ordinary satisfaction which is yet encreased by a pretence to jnnocency a resolution to justify all these crying sins I acknowledge with S. Austin l. 6. de verâ Relig. C. 6. that some jnnocent persons by Ecclesiastical censures may be cast out of the exteriour Communion of the Church that De facto this hath hapned to some that such Persons interiourly retaine the Communion with the faithfull provided they containe themselves Intra limites inculpatae tutelae do nothing vnlawfull beare their crosse patiently invent no errours practice nothing for revenge attempt not to break open the Church dores to force a readmittance nor barre them vp to hinder it do not endeavour to withdraw others from the Church to encrease the number of separatists make themselves considerable by becoming heads of a Party Giue me such a man thô he seeme to liue dye in a Schisme J shall hope for his salvation with S. Austin Whose words are these Sinit diuina providentia per nonnullas nimium turbulentas carnalium hominum sediditiones expelli de Congregatione Christianâ etiam bonos viros quam contumeliam vel iniuriam suam cum patientissimè pro Ecclesiae pace tulerint neque vllas novitates vel schismatis vel haeresis moliti fuerint docebunt homines quam vero affectu quantâ sinceritate charitatis Deo serviendum sit Talium ergo virorum propositum est aut sedatis remeare turbinibus aut si id non sinantur vel câdem tempestate perseverante vel ne de suo reditu talis aut gravior oriatur tenent voluntatem consulendi etiam ijs ipsis quorum motibus perturbationibusque cesserunt sine vllâ conventiculorum segregatione vsque ad mortem defendentes testimomio iuvantes eam Fidem quam in Ecclesiâ Catholicâ praedicari sciunt Hos coronat in occulto Pater in occulto videns Thus S. Austin divine providence some times permits that even good men are by turbulent spirits cast out of the Church who if they beare patiently this disgrace wrong for the Peace of the Church without endeavouring to frame a Shisme or broach Heresyes they will by their example teach men with what sincere charity they ought to serue God Such men intend ether to return to the Church when the storme is blown over or if they cannot return ether because the stormes ceases not or to prevent another storm continue quietly without gathering conventicles defending to their Power that Faith which they know is taught in the Church Such as these are crowned in secret by the Father who seeth in secret How many are there of your Party who haue thus peaceably demeaned themselves I meane of the more conspicuous governing or leading part Vix totidem quot Thebarum Portae vel divitis ostia nili Scarce as many as the Muses or even the Graces Soe the number that on this score can pretend to salvation is very inconsiderable For the rest how different is their proceeding from the others of whom S. Austin hopes well these beare the wrong done to them patiently for the loue of peace of the Church you by tongue pen hands shew your Passion These introduces no noveltys cause no Schismes or Heresyes you do the contrary These desire to return to the Church the storme being over you raise new stormes endeavour to perpetuate the separation These defend the Faith preacht in the Church you impugn it Those loue Peace you hate it persecute all promoters of it These are guilty of no crime which may deserue the Churchs censure you haue provoked the Heads of the Church to inflict on you such a punishment These are ready to vndergo any Penalty without deserving it you deserue it will vndergo none Jn fine these are jnnocent you guilty guilty of a great crime aggravate it by glorying in it Peccatum suum sicut Sodoma praedicaverunt So we must conclude that their example serves not to justify but to condemne you who differ so much from them therefore thô we grant with that great saint that There is life in the way of these yet your way leads to Death 3. Wherefore it is both an Vsual saying a Setled judgment of Catholicks that Protestants remaining such cannot be saved Because that name imports two greivous sins Schisme by separation from the Communion of the Church Heresy by beleiving errours contrary to Faith Which two sins taken severally or together make vs despayr of their salvation You pretend Protestants will say the like of Papists I reply it may be so but haue they such strong grounds for that saying as Catholicks haue Jn 1642. the Factious part of the Parliament did vie with the loyal peaceable party in verbal expressions of Duty Allegiance to their soverain But on the one side were only words reality on the other it was J think not necessary to cast a figure to discerne which side only pretended Allegiance but intended the contrary And it is as visible whether side in Religion aimes at Peace maintaines the ancient Faith which innovates the wordes of both partys
broach Heresyes impugn her defend themselves with the same principles I am now arrived at the end of this real or pretended Conference without omitting any one material point of it I hope I haue given reasonable satisfaction of which others will judge more impartially then my selfe if I am mistaken by judging too favourably of my owne labours my replyes be found vnsatisfactory J desire that defect be charged on my weakenesse not on the cause I defend which is invincible being secured by the promise of Christ from all possibility of errour for Against it the gates of Hell shall never prevayle I haue given a reason in the preface why I take no notice of the Father's answers as they are couched in this Relation My intention is only to defend the Church from the Objections of the Learned Doctor To which it is enough to shew as I think I haue don that his Premisses are false his Jllations incoherent his whole discourse not convincing Thus Wisdome is justified of her children Mat. 11.19 THE SECOND BOOK A REVISION OF THE ARGVMENT FROM SENSES AGAINST TRANSVBSTANTIATION THE PREFACE I Never began to read any Treatise with greater Horrour nor ended with greater Indignation than this which J now come to review Horrour to see doubts of divine Doctrine submitted to the depositions of facultys common to Beasts a jury of the Senses impanelled to decide controversys of Faith set on a throne to judge the judg of the world determine the meaning of the words of eternal Truth of divine veracity althô they are vncapable of vnderstanding the words of the meanest vnderstanding most illiterate Pesant I expect shortly to see some other appeal to Beasts seing many of the better sort of these surpasse man as to quicknesse of Senses which in them are much more perfect then in most if not al men therefore may be sayd to be more competent judges of the objects of Senses then men can be Indeed Seducers proficiunt in peius wax worse worse 2. Tim. 2.13 it is not so great a step from the Senses of men to those of Beasts which are of the same Species are rather more than lesse perfect in their kind J as it is from the Church directed by the Holy Ghost for our jnstruction in Faith to Carnal senses That having something of divine by reason of the Holy Ghost assisting these being meere Corporal below all that hath any thing of Reason A fit judge indeed for such a Church as the Protestant is My horrour changed into Indignation when I heard the Verdict brought in by this Iury the Sentence pronounced by this Vmpire this Brutish judge yet from such a Iudg little lesse could be hoped for in such a matter by which the Scripture is silenced Tradition trampled vnder foot Fathers rejected the Practice Faith of the whole Catholick Church condemned the Communion with all Faith full all the Catholick Church renounced a horrid execrable Schisme authorized And all this vpon the deposition of so vile a witnesse by the Sentence of so contemptible a judg as Carnal sense And this Sentence accepted of recommended by a learned Doctor of divinity a pretended Ryght Reverend Bishop Is Christianity is Divine Faith brought to this Yet J find one sign of Modesty vnlesse it were rather Cunning craftinesse in adorning the stage for this piece of Pageantry disposing for this extravagant judgment that there is ether no mention at all of the grounds of Catholick Faith in this treatise or else it is so silent low a mention that it is scarce perceptible For had you set before the eyes of your Readers the practice of the Church the Testimonys of Fathers the decrees of councils the written vnwritten word of God in fine the vnanimous vote of the primitiue present Church averring that to be Christs Body Bloud the Readers would not haue heard the sentence of this mock judg would haue pulled him off the Bench forced him to yeild the victory to Truth For if we Must pull out our eye if it scandalize vs we must shut our eyes stop our cares renounce all our Senses when thy contradict God's expresse word But if by this you made sure of such a sentence as you wisht you discovered the vnjustice of it by not admitting the plea of the contrary party For qui statuit aliquid parte inauditâ alterâ aequum licet statuerit hand aequus fuit This argument is not of the Doctors invention it is as old as the Sacramentarian Heresy Berengarius vsed it so did Zuinglius Calvin F. Stillingfleet G. Burnet And the answer is as common To confute this Treatise it were enough to reprint the 33. Chapter of Anti-Haman so no new reply is necessary Yet least he think himself neglected I will review what he says SECTION V. 1. Ancient Fathers re'yed not on sense 2. S. Paul teaches the senses are not to be relyed on 3. Reason convinces the same SEnses no competent judges in this Controversy Are not our Senses the same now as they were a thousand or sixteen hundred yeares ago Are their objects changed Are not the sensations they cause the same now as then Did not Bread tast like Bread wine like wine than as well as now Are not their colour odour the same at all times And had not men then as much reason to rely on their Senses in framing a judgment of their objects as now Sure they had Now what judgments did Ancients frame of this object in debate Let S. Cyril of Hierusalem speak for all the rest Althô it seemes to be Bread yet it is not Bread Althô it seemes to be wine yet it is not wine Thus this great saint ancient Father delivering Christian Doctrine in a Catechisme So this is not his private sentiment but that of the Church not things of his own invention but of publick Tradition Till then Christians retained a sincere entire veneration for the word of God they harkned indeed to Senses but more to God when these two interfered one saying That is Christ's Body the other it is not such It is Bread they did not hesitate which to follow they easily resolved pronounced in favour of Faith subscribed to the son of God Who had words of life even life everlasting Io. 6.69 Animalis homo non percivit ca quae sunt spiritus Dei c. says the Apostle 1. Cor. 2.14 The natural man as your Translation hath-it Receiues not the things of the spirit of God for they are foolishnesse vnto him nether can he know them because they are spiritually discerned Thus the Holy Apostle is not Faith one thing of the spirit of God Is it not of Faith or revealed Truth preached by the Apostle that he speakes in that place Now if Faith be aboue the reach of the whole Natural man how comes it to be below Senses which
things in motion which stir not in rest others which moue shewing substance other then it is colours where there are none As for Hearing some raving haue seemed to heare a consort of musicke A person of my acquaintance was once awakened with an exceeding great noise as if guns had ben shot off at his bed side Calling to mind that there was nether Canon nor any thing else neere which could cause that vast noyse he concluded it must be something in his eare picking it he pulled out a little insect bred in some roses which the day before he had throwne over the tester of his bed which falling from them creeping into his eare with the motion of its little tender feete caused that huge noyse Whither these such like instances of the vncertainty of our Senses sufficiently proue that they were not designed by the Authour of nature God Almyghty for instruments of sciences or to conveygh new notions into our mind or only as Guards or sentinels for our security preservation the only thing they can be designed for in Beasts thô these haue their Senses as perfect as men I leaue to the judgment of others as also to determine whither these examples can ground a judgment in that doubt what I gather hence is That Senses are often mistaken that even about their proper objects That these errours are sometimes corrected by our owne reason or discourse some times by advice or information from other men For example we know that on oare hath a strong consistency of parts to which those of the water yeild as having no consistency at all Whence thô our eyes represent it as broken in the water we conclude their deposition false 1. because water cannot breake a strong oare gently thrust into it 2. because if it were broken by the water it would not be whole when taken out as we see it is Thus reason corrects our eyes By discourse likewise we find that the diameter of the moone is much bigger then a foote as our eyes represent it Now an illiterate Bumpkin who knowes not how the tru quantity of a body seemes lesse by reason of its distance from the eye heare 's one whome he beleiues to be a learned clark say the moone is bigger then all his grounds are he beleiues him vpon his credit corrects that errour of his eyes So he preferres the word of that learned man before his syght 4. It is easy to draw from these premisses the conclusion cheifely intended viz that it is rash presumptuous to alleadge rely on any sensation contrary to the word of God or any revealed Truth For if your reason discourse or the Authority of a man more knowing experienced then our selues are sufficient to make vs frame a judgment different from or contrary to the depositions of the most perfect of our Senses our eyes with much greater reason ought we to suspect their depositions nay reject them when we find them disagree from what God hath attested For J hope the world is not brought as yet by Dogmatizers to such a degree of Libertinisme Atheisme as to say that God either can be deceived him selfe through ignorance or can maliciously deceiue vs. And if the credit of a man be sufficient to reforme the judgments we frame on our sensations shall that of God be lesse regarded Wherefore we must nether prefer Reason before Faith with Socinus nor which is worse Sense before Faith with Dr. Morley but with S. Paul the Church submit both Sense Reason to Faith let God be tru all men lyars And this conclusion holds tru whither one or more Senses bepose the same thing or whither the revealed Truth be confirmed by any Sense or no for if a clowne doth prudently prefer the word of one whome he thinks learned before his syght which no other sense doth or can correct it is certainly prudent to prefer the word of God before all Senses before our reason too SECTION VII How far senses are serviceable to Faith 1. Cartesian doubts destroy science human society 2. Nature of Faith as it comprehends divine humane 3. Two things necessary to a witnesse knowledge veracity 4. Both eminent in the Apostles 5. Miracles very serviceable to Faith 1. ALthô I think the Senses sometimes are often may be mistaken for that reason think we ought to reject their depositions when they are contrary to such things as we haue greater reason to trust to yet J am far from the senselesse errour of those who say no credit at all is du to them or that by them we cannot be sufficiently assured that we haue nether hornes nor a coxcombe on our head that our nose is nether the bille of a cocke nor the trunk of an Elephant or that our Body is flesh not glasse or butter Which is the sentiment of the Authour of the Search of Truth Cartesius teachs vs more to doubt whither we are awake or a sleepe or haue any body at all Which doubts if really admitted not pretended only afford an excellent pretext to all Ignoramus jurys to all malefactours who may pretend the witnesses are not certain of what they depose to all Rebells Refractory subjects who may alleadge their doubts against the King's Proclamation lastly to all knaues who may pretend ignorance of the promises which they haue no mind to keepe So this Cartesian way to knowledge certainty by casting off all former knowledge senses as vncertain lays the Axe at the roote of all Authority dissolues all bonds of commerce amongst men is only good to make Scepticks Atheists too seing it leaues no certain meanes to teach or learne Faith to vnderstand scripture or Councils So that nether Church nor state can stand if these doubts against the depositions of Senses without any ground to the contrary besides the general fallibility of our Senses themselues be really admitted Wherefore when D. Morley often repeates that we deny all authority to our Senses he is either deceived himself or deceiues his reader which is worse for we rely on our Senses where Reason or greater Authority doth not contradict them of both which J haue giuen examples So a man sees Titius kill Simpronius deposes it vpon oath his deposition ought to be admitted notwithstanding all Cartesian doubts So Peter relyes on a promise of Paul to Pay him within such a time 100. l. Paul is bound to make it good Peter may exact it by law 2. Faith taken generally as it comprehends Divine Humane is an Assent giuen to a thing as Tru vpon the credit of another In the first operation of our mind which consists of single thoughts called in our schooles Simple Apprehensions there can nether be Truth nor Falshoode these being propertyes of combined thoughts which are called Propositions these are the second operation of our mind for
of reason all considerations of Eternity And if they should be judged weyght by men will God judge so too At the greate day will it be a sufficient excuse for Schisme Heresy to say I was affrayd of loosing my estate of hindring my fortune of offending my freinds of giving advantage to my Enemys Will not Christ answer Seing You haue disowned me my Church before men I will disowne you before my father I will not deny but you haue given satisfaction as to what concernes your self that you are a Protestant Yet J must professe you giue little satisfaction as to your Church Nay I do declare that I would never desire other nor better grounds to vindicate the Truth of Catholick Religion the necessity of living in the Communion of the Catholick Church than what this letter affords For by it we may gather the condition of the Protestant Church to be like that of Laodicea Apoc. 3.17 Wretched miserable poore blind naked I hartily wish you those of your ranke were truly sensible of this Truth that you made a ryght vse of it by seeking ways to returne to the Communion of the Catholick Roman Church so put an end to this horrid Schisme Though the difficultyes to be overcome were greate yet greate difficultyes ought not to fryght vs from so greate so necessary a good as that of the Peace of the Church But in reality they are lesse then apprehended which you must say if you beleiue what you report after Bishop Andrews that the Pope was willing to confirme all that Q. Elizabeth had done in matter of Religion provided she would acknowledge his Supremacy This is then the grand nay the only obstacle Now all who haue been conversant in Catholick countryes see their customes even where that Supremacy is acknowledged see cleerly that this is no such formidable thing as to excuse justify a separation by consequence can be no just hindrance of Peace which the God of Peace grant vs giue all Schismaticks a tru desire of Amen SECTION XX. A Revision of his Letter to a Preist WHo this Regular Preist is you do not tell vs yet what you say of him he of himself describe him by infallible notes You endeavour to proue in this letter to him three things 1. That being so perswaded as he was he was bound in Conscience to leaue the Communion of the Roman Church 2. That he was bound to joine Communion with the Protestant Church of England 3. That he was bound to do it out of hand Which Propositions are built one vpon another the third on the second this on the first Which being Conditional not Absolute supposing his Present perswasion we must see what that is according to this Meridian we must calculate his Duty What this poore man's Perswasion is if he haue any setled is hard to judge of He hath vowed Obedience to his Regular Superiour will not keepe it He hath vowed Poverty breakes that vow He professe the Catholick Faith beleiues it full of Errors nay Heresyes He says he will remaine in the Communion of the Roman Catholick Church yet beleiues her to be Heretick Schismatick He hath beene ordred backe to his Convent he refuses to returne he hath been Canonically admonisht of his extravagances he slights it he hath been Excommunicated he Laughs at it In fine in him Hereticks find a constant freind Schismaticks a sure Advocate Apostates a certaine Patrone Catholicks an implacable Enemy yet he pretends he is nether Heretick nor Schismatick nor Apostata but a Catholick member of the Roman Church Who can square these circles reconcile these Contradictions betwixt his Declarations Actions that so a judgment may be framed of his Tru Persuasion Whither shall we giue credit to his declarations Or his Actions Those speake his being a Catholick he is nothing lesse These declare his hatred to Catholicks their Religion which yet he professeth So we must conclude him a Chimera one composed of contradictions his Religion is made vp of parts mutually destroying one another Or else that he hath no Religion for as a Chimera cannot haue a being In rerum naturâ so there can nether be an Entity composed of Contradictions nor a Religion for the same reason At least at the greate Audit he can never fayle to heare Discede a me c. Begon from me whither so ever Religion he be of his owne words will condemne him Ex ore tuo te judico serve nequam What can hence be gathered but that his Perswasion being so vncertain his Religion so dubious or certainly none at all nothing can be thence gathered as to the Communion which he should enter into If you think him well disposed for your Church you discover what kind of men it is composed of Ours that is the Catholick Church doth not desire such nor tolerate them further than there is hopes of their amendment little or none at all being left of this man she hath cast him out by Excommunication As I learne from your owne letter So by what I see I conclude that You haue spoyled a Catholick not made a Protestant Yet to moue him to come quite over you very learnedly distinguish three ages of the Church The first whilest she continued in that Faith which was once delivered to Saints p. 31. The second p. 32. from the time the Pope tooke vpon him the title of vniversal Bishop Yet you are not resolved what time to allow to this Second age whither one thousand or eleven or twelue hundred yeares The third p. 42. from the two Councils of Lateran vnder LEO X. Trent jmplying that all were bound to communicate with the Church of Rome in its first age myght communicate with it in the second must not in the third Jn the first Communion with it was a necessary duty in the second it was lawfull but not necessary in the third vnlawfull a sin And these dreames take vp aboue 30. pages Rev. All this is a dreame for the second age which you speake of is yet to come the Pope never having taken the title of Vniversal Bishop Besides this Christ promist his assistance to the Church not for any determinate time but for all times assured her of his presence till the end of the world now when you shall proue that Christ hath broken or can or will breake his word we will think your second age possible not till then so the first age in which all are obliged to joine in Communion with the Church of Rome is not expired nor will nor can ever expire D. M. p. 62. Having quitted the Communion of the Roman Church he is bound to joine with that of England in Conscience it being the most perfectly reformed Church in the world in Prudence in order to the protection of his Person provision
Schismaticks Many followed Absalom to Hebron without any design against their lawful Monark David althô they were after engaged in the Rebellion And many follow Heresiarks intending no evil but hoping good from such as pretend nothing else who would hate these perfectly if they knew their Hypocrisy or malice who are insensibly engaged in the guilt of separation which they strengthen with their presence These nether having the guilt of a sin against the Holy Ghost vpon their Conscience nor their soulhardned against the Call of God we hope may be reclaimed And a Conference severally to such as these may proue beneficial Though not to the whole body of Separatists vpon which the more factious heads will always haue too great an influence How fruitlesse of old were the Conferences of S. Peter with Simon the magician of S. Athanasius with Arrius of S. Austin with Felix with Pascentianus Felicianus Emeritus or the Arrians of Lanfrancus with Berengarius of S. Bernard with Peeter Abaylardus what good came of the Conference of Catholicks Hugonots at Poissy in France Of those betwixt Catholicks Lutherans in Germany And that betwixt Protestants Presbiterians at Hampton-court brought no good althô directed by K. Iames a learned wise Prince to whom both Partys owed Obedience in Ecclesiastical matters as to one whom both owned to be head of their Church With great reason then Tertullian Prescrip c. 15.16.17 advises out of the Apostles words to Avoyd a Heretick after twice warning him not to meet Hereticks except only to Warn them That much harm may be feared but no good hoped for by Disputes with them That we ought to presse them to declare whence they had the scriptures If from Catholicks as most certainly Protestants had then they must from them also receiue the sense of scriptures Thus he Out of which it doth not follow that Catholicks are bound to receiue the sense of scripture from the Iews from whom they received the Holy scriptures because those same Persons who brought vs the scriptures from them proved their Mission from God declared the blindnesse Apostasy of the Iews warned vs as from God the Authour of Scriptures to be ware of them S Austin 13. cont Faustum c. 12. is of the same mind that all such Disputations are fruitless Hunnericus King of the wandals proposed a conference betwixt his Arrian Bishops those of the Catholick Communion But Eugenius Bishop of Carthage in the name of all the rest rejected the Proposition saying they could not accept it without consent of other Bishops cheïfely of him of Rome Victor of Vtica lib. 2. de Persec wandalicâ The Civil Law forbids all disputations L. Nemo C. de summa Trinitate The same are forbidden to seculars by the Canon law C. Quicumque de Haereticis in 6. For some particular reasons without any prohibition from the Church by common consent Catholicks refused to encounter some Hereticks Such was Sisinnius who because he had a pleasant drolling wit would seeme victor by turning all discourse into ridicule when he had nothing substantial to reply S. Austin when a Manichaean was avoyded for his singular skill in Logick For a like reason J beleiue Christians were warned by the Apostle Colos 2.8 To beware of being deceived through Philosophy Yet we cannot we dare not vniversally blame those who by Conferences or Disputes endeavour to bring back straglers into the way of salvation For Christ disputed with the Pharisees S. Stephen with the Iews in Hierusalem S Paul Apollo with the same else where S. Hilarius with the Arrians S. Austin with the Donatists Manichaeans others This Saint Epist 48. Says Cum Hereticis verbis agendum est disputatione pugnandum ratione vincendum Treate with Haereticks with words fyght them with discourse overcome them with reason Hence Divines do nether absolutely approue nor absolutely condemn such Conferences but hold them law full on some conditions in certain circumstances which may be found in them This honourable man hints at two conditions 1. that the Disputants on both sides be learned moderate 2. That They proceed freely charitably Which are good but scarce sufficient For 1. it is no easy matter amongst those who sincerely haue any Religion to find such as are Moderate in his sense And 2. even the most Moderate men may be so pinioned by jnstructions from those who depute them that their Personal Moderation will signify nothing for they must follow their jnstructions vnder pain of being disowned by their party left to make good their own Acts. Thus Melancthon Bucerus who were esteemed Moderate could effect nothing at the several meetings to which they were deputed The same I say of the 2. condition debating Freely Charitably which signifyes nothing vnlesse the whole Party 1. giue a full power to its deputyes without any reserue oblige it selfe to ratify approue what so ever shall be agreed on consented to by them And 2. would assuredly stand to that Power Do we not see that a separation is first resolved on errours sought out alleadged only to colour it Did not Luther laugh at the labour in vain of the Catholicks who confuted his errours saying that before they had dispacht the old ones he would find them more worke by broaching new And how often are the same objections renewed after a full satisfactory answer That for example of Pagan Idolatry reproached to vs lately by E. S G. B. R. C. but answered so home by T. G. W. E. that it will be layd aside till these are forgotten then we may expect to see some huffing minister thunder all the curses of scripture from the beginning of Genesis to the end of the Apocalypse against the Church of Rome as guilty of the very Pagan Idolatry Thus Trita haereticorum arma colligunt Says S. Prosper They take vp the broken weapons of their brethren As some rivers pass vnperceived for some space vnder ground then rise again so that so other Objections against the Church And if J am not mistaken in the Horoscope of this Argument drawn from sense against Transubstantiation it will run the same fate for while a loue of separation continues these or some other pretexts will be vsed to excuse it Wherefore The only meanes to put a good end to all Disputes in Religion is to procure a sincere Loue of Peace mutual communion The differences says this Lord are not so many nor so great but meanes may be found to reconcile the two Churchs I hope there may be meanes found thó this grounds not my hope for J do on the contrary aver that there never were any Hereticks of one denemination who haue erred in more or more material points then Protestants For to say nothing of several all most all antiquated Heresyes received by them they haue cut off all the vnwritten a great part of the written word of God destroyed
being vncyp hered by their actions the best interpreters of them Wherefore F. Darcy's argument remaines in force that it is safer to joine with the Catholicks than with the Protestants as it was safer to avoyd Treason to joine with the king than with the Parliament there being no sin in remaining in the Communion of the Catholick Church two great sins Schism Heresy in joining with the Protestants You say that this Reason would proue that in S. Austin's time it was safer to joine with the Donatists than with the Catholicks seing both sides agreed that the Donatists could be saved the Donatists denyed that possibility to the Catholicks Answer you are here grossely mistaken pardon that word for S. Austin never sayd a Donatist remaining such Could be saved nay a great part of his workes against them is employed to proue that they cannot be saved that their Baptism avayles them nothing but serues for their greater damnation Let me beseech you only to open any leafe any page of the several bookes written against them there is none which will not correct that mistake What you should say is only that both sides owned tru Baptism amongst the Donatists which these denyed amongst Catholicks Which argument the Donatists not only myght but did make vse of to pervert Catholicks as you may see in S. Austin L. 1. de Bapt. cont Donat. c. 3. l. 2. cont Petilianum c. 108. else where To this I answer that such a reason from a Donatist to a Catholick is of no force he having no good ground at all for that reason to rely on therefore denying Baptisme in the Catholick Church only out of a peevishnesse of nature Religion it was by them sayd with no more cause than Quakers had to say Thou art damned when they had nothing else to say Where as Catholicks proue that Assertion of theirs with jrrefragable reason drawn from those two crying sins Schisme Heresy of which we accuse the Protestants these do not nay cannot sufficiently cleere I haue all ready explicated these reasons That those of the Donatists were frivolous is evident for they sayd some Bishops of the Catholick Communion were Traditores had delivered the sacred bookes to the Persecutors that all Catholicks by communicating with them did contract the same guilt had lost the Holy Ghost And hence they inferred there could be no valid Baptisme in the Catholick Communion for those who haue not the Holy Ghost cannot give him to others To which the Catholicks answered 1. that those Bishops accused of that shamefull compliance with the jmperial Edicts against Christians were jnnocent of that crime which was never sufficiently proved vpon them no man ought to be condemned vnlesse the crime be evidently proved against him 2. They answered that althô the persons accused were really guilty yet their personal guilt could not prejudice all Catholicks communicating with them because another man's sin cannot prejudice me vnlesse J make it my own by commanding or perswading approving defending or imitating it Now the Catholicks were so far from being accessory to that pretended sin in another that they detested the sin always condemned it in all persons who were really guilty of it but never could find sufficient grounds to pronounce those accused by the Donatists guilty of it as those would haue them doe They answered 3. that supposing not granting that the Persons accused were really guilty that guilt had infected the whole body of Catholicks by communicating with them yet their Baptism myght be valid this not depending on the Personal sanctity of its Minister but on the justitution promises of Christ the operation of the Holy Ghost Hence S. Austin sayd he did not regard Peter when he Baptizes nor Paul nor Iohn nor Iudas but he considered the Holy Ghost who is the Baptist who ever he be who washes the body pronounces the words as Minister of that Sacrament You se how frivolous the reasons of the Donatists were to deny the validity of Baptism in the Catholick Church Shew that ours are as frivolous J will grant the parity but this you can never doe So our Reason stands good against you that of the Donatists against vs falls to the ground It seemes not discreet in an English Protestant to mention the Donatists there being so great a resemblance betwixt these two schismatical Churchs that they may seem sisters the later to haue copyed the other which appeares by these paralel points 1. Donatists were no where out of one corner of the world Africa Protestants of the Church of Eng. that is such as agree with her in points of Doctrine Hierarchy no where out of England 2. Donatists sayd theirs was the only perfect vnspotted Church you say yours is the only Apostolical Church perfectly reformed c. 3. Those endeavoured to justify their separation with some pretended faults of particular men you to justify yours alleadg some indiscreet devotions of old women and vnwary words of some otherwise pious Authours 4. Those appealed to some parts of scripture which you vse against vs And the Fathers proved against them the Vniversality of the Church the necessity of Communion with her out of the same texts which we vse against you 5. Donatists called Rome the seat or Chair of pestilence you call it a Pest-house letter to her R. H. P. 17. the seat of Antichrist 6. Those had their Circumcellions who thought to do God good service in murthering Catholicks you haue some of the same perswasion as appeares by their workes Yet I own a great difference betwixt the old Circumcellions the new ones Those when the toy took them would ether break their own necks or force others to cut their throates the new ones in this do not imitate them they loue too much their mothers sons 7. Those had the Maximianists who left them for the same reasons they had broken off Communion with the Church these haue the Presbiterians others who will not conforme with them vpon the same grounds for which they refuse to conform to the Catholick Church 8. And lastly the Non-conformist donatists made evident to the world that the Donatists had no real ground to break the Catholick Communion by forcing them to solue their owne Objections against the Church of which S. Austin l. 2. Retract C. 35. And your Non conformists with the same successe force you to answer all your pretences against vs breake those weapons with which you haue hitherto fought against the Church Those who will take the paines to examin further the Donatists principles will discover more points of agreement betwixt them you These are sufficient to shew that what is now hath been before will be that as the Church sticks constantly through all ages to the same Faith ways of defending it so Factious spirits seditious Brethren break her Communion turn Schismaticks